S08.E10: Apocalypse Then

[100Proof]

17 minutes ago, Rap541 said:

He's been dead since 1997. If he was alive in 2020 or 2023 - I wasn't sure of the flash forward times - he'd be 90 or 93.

That long ago already? Thought it was fairly recently.... 5 years-ish or so.  Nevertheless, so why they got him alive and well then? lol.  I recall his daughter took over... and until recently she renounced that shit or something or other I think....no matter. They should've made her the church of satan leader then, not her father....cuz he's been dead! Plus it would jive with the women in power theme.

10 minutes ago, Rap541 said:

Correct - Much like how Cordelia never resurrected Myrtle because there was no apocalypse necessitating it, Madison was never freed from Hell to fight the apocalypse either.

Myrtle? Who the heck is Myrtle?? lol     (rhetorical, no need to answer)  ;)

Edited November 15, 2018 by 100Proof

[LoneHaranguer]

12 hours ago, AnswersWanted said:

She never revealed anything that happened so no one could maybe think about what might happen next, like, oh say, the devil would just try again maybe being all kinds of powerful and evil incarnate and what not?

She could have at least told Queenie why her choice of hotel was a bad idea. I wish they had explained why she picked it in the first place; I can't believe it'd have good reviews online.

12 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

She returns to the academy and gets street cred with the peeps in hell so they allow her to bring Nan/Misty Day back to the living but she leaves Madison in hell!

She said she'd do it later, so I presume there was a scheduling conflict with Emma Roberts. I suspect doing a "yay, all of the girls are safe" scene was an afterthought.

12 hours ago, 100Proof said:

And how the hell did she know that was enough to kill him. Could've broke ever bone in his body but still lived

Especially if somebody called 911.

[Rap541]

And we could have had the crew from 9-1-1 show up with Athena the cop! :D

[100Proof]

5 minutes ago, Rap541 said:

And we could have had the crew from 9-1-1 show up with Athena the cop! :D

Don't know why they just couldn't have simply caught a lift in the good Doctors' Tardis and save Mallory from the whole life threatening danger aspect

Edited November 15, 2018 by 100Proof

[Rap541]

8 minutes ago, 100Proof said:

That long ago already. Thought it was fairly recently.... 5 years-ish or so.  Nevertheless, so why they got him alive and well then? lol

Yeah - thats one of the reasons why his family/the Church of Satan was threatening a lawsuit. On the show, there's a throwaway line that Anton Lavey faked his own death to hide so he could help bring about the AntiChrist. One of their bitch points is that he is dead, there's no doubt or mystery about it, and while he loved the mocking of the Christian church, his philosophy actually was more hedonistic atheism and he didn't believe in the AntiChrist at all. 

1 minute ago, 100Proof said:

Don't know why they just couldn't have simply caught a lift in the good Doctors' Tardis and save Mallory from the whole life threatening personal danger aspect

The Doctor was busy saving the Ood. Also, lets be honest, he tends to make things worse.

[owenthurman]

Very little confusion here, but only because I've rewatched Coven recently. Reading this thread, there's so much confusion, and I consider that a failing of the show rather than the viewers: it shouldn't be mandatory for all viewers to remember all the details of a previous season in order to enjoy the current season.

For instance:

• Nan. At the end of Coven, she went off with Papa Legba, as a kind of assistant, and seemed quite happy about it: an eternity of naughty fun. But Cordelia didn't know this; she never learned what happened to Nan; Nan disappeared and Cordelia never saw her again until last night's episode, when the door swung open and Nan walked in out of the mists. To viewers who don't remember Coven clearly, it would look as though Mallory resurrected her.
• Madison. At the end of Coven, she went to hell, and she deserved it; she'd earned it. But in the alternate future of Apocalypse, she was willing to put her (new) life on the line to fight the Antichrist, so she deserved a shot at redemption; she'd earned it. Mallory's decision to resurrect Misty Day ASAP but leave Madison in hell a while longer makes perfect sense, but only if one recalls that Madison had actually earned her time in hell.

-----

Legba and other afterlife figures know Mallory killed the Antichrist? Interesting. Does this mean Legba will honor his alternate-future arrangement with Cordelia, exchanging Marie Laveau's soul for Dinah's? Meaning Marie Laveau would still be around in the reset-future?

If this were another show, if a character delivered a line as badass as Cordelia's "Satan has one son but my sisters are legion, motherfucker," people would be talking about it everywhere. But it got lost in all the confusion.

I think the show has actually set up enough material here for a good spinoff, or media tie-in novels. The Coven, the resentful warlocks, Marie Laveau and Dinah, the continued existence of Hotel Cortez and the Murder House.... I'd watch or read that.

Edited November 15, 2018 by owenthurman

[Chaos Theory]

13 hours ago, sashayshante said:

 

Oh, and the Boring Twins giving birth to the new Antichrist? Stupid. Still doesn't explain why they were in The Outpost. Totally unnecessary inclusion of flat characters.

No one was sure about the Antichrist and what form he would ultimately take so I think it is interesting that the perfect blood characters were used as potential for creating the next anti christ.  

[Primal Slayer]

31 minutes ago, LoneHaranguer said:

 

She said she'd do it later, so I presume there was a scheduling conflict with Emma Roberts. I suspect doing a "yay, all of the girls are safe" scene was an afterthought.

Especially if somebody called 911.

Still rude to wait.

But Mal being in the past, what does that mean for Cordelias supremacy? Mal is already in her full powers so do we have 2 at once now? And why was Mal so different from past Supremes??

[sashayshante]

28 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

No one was sure about the Antichrist and what form he would ultimately take so I think it is interesting that the perfect blood characters were used as potential for creating the next anti christ.  

Yes, but *why* them? And how? We went from Human + Spirit = Antichrist to two humans conceiving the Antichrist with no further explanation. What does having perfect blood got to do with any of it?

[100Proof]

18 minutes ago, sashayshante said:

Yes, but *why* them? And how? We went from Human + Spirit = Antichrist to two humans conceiving the Antichrist with no further explanation. What does having perfect blood got to do with any of it?

Season 9, lol

54 minutes ago, owenthurman said:

If this were another show, if a character delivered a line as badass as Cordelia's "Satan has one son but my sisters are legion, motherfucker," people would be talking about it everywhere. But it got lost in all the confusion.

 

Since Paulson has a lisp, she should've started that sentence with, "Lithhhen Buthhhter"

[WednesdayAddams]

They should just have never done time travel. There's too many questions, and no real answers except speculation. This reminds me of my family arguing one Christmas about The Terminator, and how if future John Connor never sent Reese to protect his mom. Then Reese and her wouldn't have made John Connor. Time travel is very tricky and there aren't set rules. 

And after Mallory causing the fireplace to explode and Michael showing his demon face, death by car is so stupid. At least give us a good fight. He went out too easily, and with no real emotion (besides his fight with Constance) or screen time. I'd be pissed if I were him.

[WednesdayAddams]

3 hours ago, sashayshante said:

 I can't figure out if Michael was bullshitting Constance with his "I'm just a kid" routine after he killed the priest. Did he really not know who he was? Because it sounded like he knew he was bullshitting Constance.

He aged 10 years over night, but was still mentally a child. When we see him crying over Meade and crying because he doesn't know what to do, and crying over everything else, he's mentally a teenager there. When he's in the outpost, he's mentally an adult. So while yes, he could be bullshitting her, he was still a child in a way.

[DangerousMinds]

5 hours ago, kokapetl said:

Son of satan dies from hit and run. What a crock. 

And new son of Satan is born of two absolutely normal human beings? That’s not how it works.

[Bruinsfan]

14 hours ago, 100Proof said:

Just for arguments sake. She there with the machine gun in order to keep filling him up with holes and for a helluva (pardon pun) much longer time than she did.... and still could've make her own getaway on top of it. But no... hey look behind me.... kablooey!

To be fair, someone falling down that long staircase atrium on fire and screaming to splat right behind you has got to be one heck of a distraction. It's not as if Madison turned her attention away from Michael's body because she got a text message about a sale at Nordstrom's or something.

 

1 hour ago, LoneHaranguer said:

She could have at least told Queenie why her choice of hotel was a bad idea. I wish they had explained why she picked it in the first place; I can't believe it'd have good reviews online.

I suppose the people with bad experiences there never got the chance to leave Yelp reviews about it.

[AnswersWanted]

50 minutes ago, WednesdayAddams said:

They should just have never done time travel. There's too many questions, and no real answers except speculation. This reminds me of my family arguing one Christmas about The Terminator, and how if future John Connor never sent Reese to protect his mom. Then Reese and her wouldn't have made John Connor. Time travel is very tricky and there aren't set rules. 

And after Mallory causing the fireplace to explode and Michael showing his demon face, death by car is so stupid. At least give us a good fight. He went out too easily, and with no real emotion (besides his fight with Constance) or screen time. I'd be pissed if I were him.

 

I agree 100%.

Time has no bearing on the supernatural and that’s really who the witches have been fighting this whole time, Satan himself.

Them going back-and-forth in time really does nothing to impact his plans, he could just make provisions which obviously happened.

Killing Michael the child in an overgrown body didn’t destroy the antichrist as a soul or manifestation, the white faced demon was the true son of Satan, no way a car was going to take that thing down.

Once Michael was dead, all Satan had to do was just re-plant his seed into another vessel. 

I’m pretty sure that they ended things this way so that they can have a jump off point for season nine, but I don’t excuse them for that, there were other ways to keep the story going that made a lot more sense and that showed a lot more creativity and purpose of plot, this season for me as a whole was just a total fail.  

 Why pick out a theme that you yourself will render pointless and ineffective at the end of the day? It just makes no sense to me. 

 

Quote

 

Yes, but *why* them? And how? We went from Human + Spirit = Antichrist to two humans conceiving the Antichrist with no further explanation. What does having perfect blood got to do with any of it?

 

 

And so much this. I mean really? How much more lazy could they get?  

Then what were the last nine episodes all about, why even tie back in the murder house and Michael’s cursed conception, somehow perfectly matched DNA is the same as a human and a dead soul making a baby now?

And if the purpose was to make me want to tune in to another season for that to be explained, well they failed miserably because I have no desire to know why, I don’t even know why I stuck it out for this season.

Edited November 15, 2018 by AnswersWanted

[100Proof]

34 minutes ago, WednesdayAddams said:

He aged 10 years over night, but was still mentally a child. When we see him crying over Meade and crying because he doesn't know what to do, and crying over everything else, he's mentally a teenager there. When he's in the outpost, he's mentally an adult. So while yes, he could be bullshitting her, he was still a child in a way.

Since this is the kind of show where anything implausible can be pulled from the writers' butt, why be able to have accelerated physical growth but not the addition of commensurate mental growth. Satan sez, "Hmmmm, I seem to have overlooked something..."   heh

5 minutes ago, AnswersWanted said:

Once Michael was dead, all Satan had to do was just re-plant his seed into another vessel.

Mia Farrow?

[AnswersWanted]

2 minutes ago, 100Proof said:

Mia Farrow?

 

Hah! But of course. Can’t forget the raw meat eating queen. 

[iMonrey]

I was mostly satisfied with the wrap up, more so than I would have been with a "to be continued" ending. But I really don't want another season with the new anti-Christ baby the teens just had because it would feel like a lot of rehash. 

I also agree there was very little point to the first couple of episodes spent in the underground bunker. The mutants that they fed the horses to - who or what were they? Just apocalypse survivors that were mutated? Why feed them their horses? The snakes . . . what was the deal with those? And all the extra characters they killed off like Mr. Gallant and his grandmother - just pointless. 

I hadn't thought about what the time reset would do to Moira's spirit but yeah . . . it seems like the happy ending she got has been undone. 

The other thing that bugged me was the fight Constance had with Michael where she kicks him out of the house didn't apparently happen in the original timeline, so how did that get changed? In the original timeline - the story she told Madison and Behold - she was the one who eventually left, went to the Murder House, and killed herself. She never kicked Michael out. 

Edited November 15, 2018 by iMonrey

[phoenix780]

To be fair, we don't know how the new antichrist was conceived. Maybe they honeymooned at the hotel, or just took a romantic trip there, and that's where she got pregnant.  Plus, they gave enough detail to let us know there's something about them that the devil likes, right, because they were in the special bunker.  

Point is, I get that it's unexplained, and to me that means you can kind of go wherever you want to with it. You could hold the writers to a higher standard and expect clarity, or you could cut a little slack and roll with it. I feel like they've given me enough entertainment to go with the second option, but the only other scripted show I really follow at this point is The Walking Dead and, well, I may be at a point where I just appreciate a little effort. I also take it as a riff on your typical horror movie ending- hand from the grave, that sort of thing- and nothing more significant.

Now that I'm thinking about it, though...I'm not sure how I feel about the idea that the witches are apparently just sitting back and letting another one grow up. I mean, it would probably have been a cooler ending if they'd shown up instead of the dark pope, although then it wouldn't be a horror story, I guess.

[gunderda]

This was probably my favorite episode all season but there were a lot of 'ok that's lame' moments. The way Mallory killed Michael - lame. The ending with the new anti-christ - lame. 

I enjoyed having some things tied up - Like finding out how Mallory and Coco were two different people yet the same people, how Coco (and Mallory) ended up at the outpost.  BUT was Joan Collins two different people as well? I'm assuming so since she wasn't gathered up as a witch to be brought back to life in the outpost. But that was super confusing. 

Having people play multiple characters was just a bad bad decision. Way too confusing. 

But now we know why life in that outpost was so miserable. Because Venable was told she could run it however she wanted and seemed to enjoy making people miserable. She probably had a stash of good food hidden away somewhere all to herself.  But now I can't remember why they wanted to kill everyone with the poisoned apples. 

And I think the two perfect DNA kids were chosen as a back up plan for the antichrist. But why did she not die in childbirth? 

[farmgal4]

SO MANY unanswered questions!  I’m pretty new to this show.  I’ve only watched two complete seasons on Netflix: Murder House and the one about the insane asylum.  I loved both of those, and I’m getting ready to start watching Cult.  I enjoyed this season too, but I thought last night’s finale seemed to be thrown together without a lot of thought being put into it.  I was really disappointed, and it left me with so many unanswered questions. ?

[ClareWalks]

I think I missed something so I'll ask you guys. I understand how Coco and Mallory were assigned their new personas to get into the outpost. What happened with the tech guys though? All of a sudden they were in the salon and I had no idea if their memories were somehow wiped too, and why.

[Surrealist]

6 minutes ago, ClareWalks said:

I think I missed something so I'll ask you guys. I understand how Coco and Mallory were assigned their new personas to get into the outpost. What happened with the tech guys though? All of a sudden they were in the salon and I had no idea if their memories were somehow wiped too, and why.

When Myrtle went to their office to get info on Michael and the Apocalypse, she killed them before she left. 

Although maybe that's not what you're asking. 

Edited November 15, 2018 by Surrealist

[ClareWalks]

4 minutes ago, Surrealist said:

When Myrtle went to their office to get info on Michael and the Apocalypse, she killed them before she left. 

Although maybe that's not what you're asking. 

That could explain what I'm asking! I guess I'm now confused as to whether the tech guys and the hairdresser/Coco's BF were the same characters, or different characters. With all the actors playing different parts, and then some of those parts turned out to be "amnesia parts," I got so confused.

[Surrealist]

1 hour ago, ClareWalks said:

That could explain what I'm asking! I guess I'm now confused as to whether the tech guys and the hairdresser/Coco's BF were the same characters, or different characters. With all the actors playing different parts, and then some of those parts turned out to be "amnesia parts," I got so confused.

You're not alone. Quite a few longtime AHS viewers thought the actors playing multiple roles in one season got way too confusing. 

I started to lose track. Don't even get me started on the time travel aspect. I didn't even bother unraveling that in my head. 

[TheRabbi]

I really liked the first 3 episodes of this season with the dynamic of the bunker and the aftermath. It went to shit as soon as the coven gals showed up. It had its moments, but the flashbacks needed to be wrapped up a lot quicker. At a certain point, it was like 'get back to the present already', and it dragged into the last episode. 

 

And just when I thought it would be a nice buildup with Paulsen sacrificing herself to allow a final battle between Michael and Mallory, they go and pull the time travel ending. Ugh.

 

Need a bit to digest this. I loved Cult, and Roanoake was good fun too, but this I probably have to put in the bottom half.

[sashayshante]

1 hour ago, Surrealist said:

When Myrtle went to their office to get info on Michael and the Apocalypse, she killed them before she left. 

Although maybe that's not what you're asking. 

 

I don't believe she killed them. she put some kind of paralysis  spell on them and lifted it when she left. gallant and Brock were not Mutt and Jeff.  Those were four separate characters.

I don't understand why Michael was so..sad? Surprised? When Cordelia killed herself. was it what he wanted the satisfaction of killing her?

Edited November 16, 2018 by sashayshante

[archer1267]

I watched the episode twice. Between that, and reading the comments here (thanks, everyone!) I *think* I finally understand what happened. But still, how anti-climactic that the Son of Satan is undone by an SUV! Especially after surviving a backstabbing and a fusillade of bullets. I was expecting some epic showdown between Michael and the witches, some match of wits. 

The ending with the new anti-Christ toddler made zero sense. This season was so intriguing initially...I'm not sure what happened. Would it have done a better job with 12 episodes? Who knows. 

I'm definitely in the minority here - I liked Billie Lourd and thought she did a good job here and in Cult.

[AnswersWanted]

Was anyone else thinking that we would end up with some kind of zombie war or at least a skirmish?  

Considering Cordelia’s premonition earlier in the season, I thought that part of the big, bad, explosive battle would certainly involve members of the undead from both sides. 

My thinking was always that there would be this exciting showdown between good and evil. But, to me, it felt more like a fairly mediocre fight between characters that either seemed too passive or less powerful than previously implied. 

[LoveLeigh]

I am starting to binge watch this season. I am in episode 5. I really think that one hour a week is not the best way to view a season. I forget week to week what happened weeks ago, and even with binge watching I am confused about certain aspects I recall seeing weeks ago.

For instance: if Dinah was given more episodes of her show, how could she do the show if there was an Apocalypse? Was she sent back in time? 

Was Michael hit by that car twice? The first time he was taken back into the house to become a ghost and in the final episode he was left on the street to die and that is how the whole story changed? 

[Mierin]

1 hour ago, sashayshante said:

I don't believe she killed them. she put some kind of paralysis  spell on them and lifted it when she left. gallant and Brock were not Mutt and Jeff.  Those were four separate characters.

I don't understand why Michael was so..sad? Surprised? When Cordelia killed herself. was it what he wanted the satisfaction of killing her?

Nope, she didn't kill them - she mentioned that the most disappointing part of the evening was that she wasn't going to be killing them.

[BingeyKohan]

This almost feels like an exquisite corpse season, where the writers of the first few episodes handed their duties off to other writers who had to just take whatever setup they inherited and work with it. Then the choice of that second set of writers was just to go back and explain every single choice made by the earlier writers. I still don’t know why they called this season Apocalypse when the apocalypse was the thing they seemed least interested in, from a conceptual or horror standpoint.

[farmgal4]

3 hours ago, sashayshante said:

I don't believe she killed them. she put some kind of paralysis  spell on them and lifted it when she left. gallant and Brock were not Mutt and Jeff.  Those were four separate characters.

I don't understand why Michael was so..sad? Surprised? When Cordelia killed herself. was it what he wanted the satisfaction of killing her?

She told them that she hated to have to leave before they died, or something like that, so I’m almost certain she did kill them.

[phoenix780]

I also thought Myrtle said she was disappointed not to kill them. It never crossed my mind that the geeks could be the guys in the salon, even though it was the same actors. Since we're clarifying, was Joan Collins two characters or just one? 

I didn't think zombies or undead would be part of the endgame (at one point I did wonder if they'd connect to the monsters in Asylum), but I assumed Mallory would do some kind of regeneration and not time travel, since that seemed to be her main power. 

[Daltrey]

45 minutes ago, farmgal4 said:

She told them that she hated to have to leave before they died, or something like that, so I’m almost certain she did kill them.

Myrtle: I suppose I must get to the most unpleasant part of my visit.

Tech-douche #2; What's that?

Myrtle: The part where I have to leave before killing you both.

 

She had to leave them alive to carry out their roles in the apocalypse and not alert Micheal that the witches were on to him and working to avert it.

[Rap541]

22 minutes ago, phoenix780 said:

I also thought Myrtle said she was disappointed not to kill them. It never crossed my mind that the geeks could be the guys in the salon, even though it was the same actors. Since we're clarifying, was Joan Collins two characters or just one? 

Two characters, albeit rather similar characters. 

Gran was Gallant's bitchy grandma with a past in Hollywood, she was clearly brought in the bunker by Gallant who followed Coco and Mallory to the secret plane to escape the end.

Bubbles the witch was a bitchy witch with a past in Hollywood who was with the coven in the flashbacks and died in the massacre.

The reason its difficult to discern is that a)this season was a confusing mess of multiple actors in multiple roles and b) Joan Collins was playing a hammy variation of herself/Alexis Carrington..

The problem I have is that a lot of the interesting bits - the other outposts and why they fell, the rise of Cordelia the kinda misandrist bitch over the male witches, Brock's wandering thru the wasteland, were all brought up and dumped. 

Ironic isn't it, that Venable killed Mallory by poisoning and if Michael had just been paying attention, he coulda used his powers to fry Mallory's soul into dust.... If he'd been thorough, he'd still be king of the radioactive dust. 

[Dobian]

I liked how they wrapped things up for the most part, but the ending means the coven has to go through all this again in another 15 years?  LOL.

[Daltrey]

Ugh....I mean......I don't know. There was some good stuff but it was all just a case of too little, too late and I think it came across as good as it did because it came on the heels of two episodes of complete gutter trash and a largely convoluted season where much of the pre Apocalypse was inane, inadvertent or rendered irrelevant. The actors playing multiple roles is most likely a result of this slapdash, hodge podge narrative style where so many characters and story elements are thrown into the pot that casting different actors would culminate in the Leads having minimal screen time. God forbid that Sarah and Evan only be in five of the ten! (can we get emoji's? I need an eye-roll emoji right here)....Better story telling could solve that issue. Honestly, other than Gran/Bubbles, whom I thought might have been the same person until that went nowhere and both characters became essentially pointless, I had no issues telling the characters apart. The problem lay in the ultimately underwhelming story that facilitated the show getting it's money's worth for all those actors pulling double plus duty. I would still put it slightly above Roanoke but... if I were to ever bring myself to watch them both again, I can see a future where that could possibly get flipped; I doubt it, but maybe.

It had some really good laughs, I'll give it that. I absolutely loved that Coco was given Madison's personality for her memory wipe/cover, that was hysterical. Also, I think I'm in the minority but I loved Micheal's multiple hit and run death as well. There was something deeply satisfying and darkly comical about seeing someone who got zero development between confused, weepy, whiny demon baby and all powerful Son of Satan being mowed to death by SUV.

Quote

I did like the homage to both Alien (android head with white 'blood') and 2001: A Space Odyssey (singing Daisy like Hal).

@oompa: That was great too; I got the Alien reference but I was wondering what the Daisy song was from. I've not yet been able to get through 2001:ASO, so thanks for that! ;)

Having Angela Basset return was a nice surprise for me too, I had forgot hearing something about her coming back. I don't have any real hate for Adina Porter but, with the exception of her True Blood role, every one of her characters seems to be very similar, regardless of the show. I don't remember caring very much for Madame Leveaux on Coven but AB created a unique character from what was on the page, or at least fleshed her out with some true personality, and it was really fun to see that again. Probably because she was one of the "good guys" this time, but still. Having her kill "Adina the talk show host" (See, Ryan Murphy? Viewers STILL not remembering character names at the end of a season is a sign of shitty writing!) was deliciously good.

I'm not sure there's too much more I can say. My ultimate take away is how much I miss Jessica Lange. Her scene in the bedroom with Satan's sperm and Vivien's egg elevated the entire episode above mediocrity and was arguably the highlight of the season. It may be too soon to say for sure but I think I might be done. I have absolutely zero interest in a season where the Mannequin Twins are unwittingly responsible for enabling The Apocalypse 2.0 through no fault of their own. I've just lost all faith in Ryan Murphy's ability to craft a cohesive, intelligent and interesting story, let alone new characters with any growth or substance. Whatever is next will have to sound pretty fantastic if I'm to watch at all...we Shall see.

[Cirenshane]

Mallory went back in time to change the "past" and she stayed in the "past" does that mean now there are 2 Mallory's in the "past" and now 2 potential Supremes ?

[AngelKitty]

38 minutes ago, Cirenshane said:

Mallory went back in time to change the "past" and she stayed in the "past" does that mean now there are 2 Mallory's in the "past" and now 2 potential Supremes ?

I'm going to assume this is the type of time travel where your mind goes into your past body, so only one Mallory.

[txhorns79]

Quote

I still don’t know why they called this season Apocalypse when the apocalypse was the thing they seemed least interested in, from a conceptual or horror standpoint.

I agree.  It seemed like they just wanted an excuse to do a sequel to the Coven season, and just jammed that storyline into the Apocalypse theme. 

One other question I had was about the Seven Wonders.  Mallory did the Seven Wonders in the original timeline and became Supreme when Cordelia killed herself.  I understand the timeline has shifted, but how does the time travel work?  Is the Mallory who ran over Michael the Supreme version of Mallory, or is she just the 2015 version of Mallory who never did the Seven Wonders? 

[LoveLeigh]

I am almost sure Michael was hit by that car in a previous episode and WAS brought back into the house. The second time he was not, which was the in alternate time line. Anyone? 

[DFWGina]

I thoroughly enjoyed the finale.  They wrapped up the loose ends (for the most part) and brought it back around to the good vs evil that Ryan Murphy loves and does so well.

I was glad to see the two teens from the bunker show up again which tied up the "why" for them being in the bunker.  They were the alternate plan if/when things went wrong for Michael after the Apocalypse.  They needed to be safe in case there was a plan B.

I loved how Mallory warned Queenie to try a different hotel to "save her".   It was also funny that Mallory didn't immediately save Madison from retail hell.

I do think it could be less confusing with different actors playing some of the roles but it also made it interesting....  I enjoyed this season so much more than last.   

[Dobian]

6 hours ago, Daltrey said:

Ugh....I mean......I don't know. There was some good stuff but it was all just a case of too little, too late and I think it came across as good as it did because it came on the heels of two episodes of complete gutter trash and a largely convoluted season where much of the pre Apocalypse was inane, inadvertent or rendered irrelevant. The actors playing multiple roles is most likely a result of this slapdash, hodge podge narrative style where so many characters and story elements are thrown into the pot that casting different actors would culminate in the Leads having minimal screen time.

The season went off the rails with the whole Kathy Robot and Dumb and Dumber stuff.  I know they needed to explain how they got a nuclear war to start, but the Dumb and Dumber plot was idiotic.  And who was putting words into Kathy Robot's mouth at the end, since Dumb and Dumber weren't around?  I guess she just defaulted to her own dialogue when they didn't override it.  And why wasn't Michael able to heal himself after Mallory ran him over, he didn't have that power yet?  He was just road kill.  That was a plot hole that needed explaining. 

[sashayshante]

18 minutes ago, DakotaLavender said:

I am almost sure Michael was hit by that car in a previous episode and WAS brought back into the house. The second time he was not, which was the in alternate time line. Anyone? 

I have no idea what you were watching, but that never happened. 

[kokapetl]

I went and watched the third season for the first time. Now that was dogshit. Kind of puts things in perspective. 

[Dobian]

2 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

One other question I had was about the Seven Wonders.  Mallory did the Seven Wonders in the original timeline and became Supreme when Cordelia killed herself.  I understand the timeline has shifted, but how does the time travel work?  Is the Mallory who ran over Michael the Supreme version of Mallory, or is she just the 2015 version of Mallory who never did the Seven Wonders? 

She is the Supreme version from the future.  Of course Murphy left out some details like what it would mean when there are two Supremes in existence and what would happen when Mallory ran into her past self, but on this show, who cares about details?

Edited November 16, 2018 by Dobian

[Daltrey]

3 minutes ago, Dobian said:

And why wasn't Michael able to heal himself after Mallory ran him over, he didn't have that power yet? 

Essentially, Yes. He wasn't strong enough yet. Cordelia mentioned it a couple of times, as I recall, during the final standoff in the bunker. At one point she said something about him having become too powerful and also when she was sending Mallory back she said to pick a time when he wasn't so strong and would be more vulnerable.

[LoveLeigh]

38 minutes ago, sashayshante said:

I have no idea what you were watching, but that never happened. 

Did any character in this season die outside the house on the street and beg to be brought back into the house? I am not sure why I have that memory. I appreciate the help, this season got very jumbled up for me. 

[sashayshante]

Just now, DakotaLavender said:

Did any character in this season die outside the house on the street and beg to be brought back into the house? I am not sure why I have that memory. I appreciate the help, this season got very jumbled up for me. 

I think you're thinking of Nan, Constance's daughter. She was killed by a hit and run driver and Constance tried to drag her body to the house before she expired so her spirit would stay trapped din the house. I believe that scene might have been included in the Return to Murder House episode when Constance was filling Madison in on how she'd lost all her children.