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S01E06: Off Radar

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So Vance has been in charge of this whole operation but he didn't notice that one bus and a bunch of passengers went AWOL?   Ben seems to have more ready information about the passengers than Vance does.  I still think they needed an episode on how he even compiled all that info.

Are police detectives allowed to access anything they want on the computer with no monitoring?  I'm surprised Michaela could use her police database to find out so much.  If Jared was at work, wasn't there something specific he was supposed to be doing?  They can just spend the entire day off-grid searching for nondescript buildings?  

This episode has sort of diverted the mystery, from what happened to the plane/what's up with the calling, to who kidnapped a bunch of plane passengers and who's doing lab experiments on them.  I suppose the two could be related eventually.  

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I really like this show, but it just annoys the shit out of me when they get medical stuff SO WRONG!  Seriously, do the writers just make stuff up?  Get info from some random goof's website?  So much hate.

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Was it ever explained to the families of the missing Flight 828 folks what possibly happened to the plane, why it was gone so long? Did they just assume it went down in the ocean, was it hijacked? There was some talk in this episode about worm holes--probably the most likely explanation-- (been watching too many episodes of Ancient Aliens...)  Was everyone legally declared dead? There’s been no new news that I recall as to any explanation as to why or what caused the the returned plane to blow up.  

And about the secret black ops guys, why pick just those passengers, unless they were the ones that had no relatives as was mentioned I believe.  But still, why the experiments? Leftover Nazis?  Gimme a break.  It is all so unrealistic for this day and age.  But, it is just a t.v. show for our entertainment so we can choose to watch it or not.  Not much else on t.v. these days so it is something to watch on Monday nights.  

I like the idea of Jared and Michaela working together and possibly getting back together.  

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1 hour ago, Camera One said:

This episode has sort of diverted the mystery, from what happened to the plane/what's up with the calling, to who kidnapped a bunch of plane passengers and who's doing lab experiments on them.  I suppose the two could be related eventually.  

I suppose I should appreciate that we got a few seconds of scientists suggesting wormholes, but with all the other subplots, the show reminds me of Designated Survivor transitioning from an apocalyptic military strike to The West Wing+Evil Doer of the Week. It's not even bait and switch. It's more like these shows are written by dogs chasing the next squirrel that goes by.
Maybe the evil govt cabal will turn out to be behind the not-wormhole, but right now it doesn't seem like there's a show bible.
Does anyone know differently?

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6 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

but right now it doesn't seem like there's a show bible.
Does anyone know differently?

The showrunner claims there's a six-year plan, and he seems very deliberate describing the season, like "in episode x, you'll meet a new character who will bring us into the new phase of the season, etc."  It really does seem like he plans to let loose a new squirrel (so to speak, like our friendly Bulgarian) every few episodes and then:

Spoiler

after six years, apparently, we will finally find out what happened to the plane to make it disappear.

Edited by Camera One
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I think the secret not-government government agency was trying some sort of "Philadelphia Experiment" trial 5.5 years ago, and someone pushed the wrong button, and, now that they're back to square one, so to speak, they're trying to both figure out what went wrong and cover their tracks.  Hence the experiments.

Who is going to pay for that $200 tire with a hole in the sidewall?  Somebody's going to be doing some paperwork.

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4 minutes ago, Dowel Jones said:

Who is going to pay for that $200 tire with a hole in the sidewall? 

Don't worry.  The Voices will connect Michaela with a fellow passenger who owns a tire factory.

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2 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

Who is going to pay for that $200 tire with a hole in the sidewall?  Somebody's going to be doing some paperwork.

They'll just say some mope slashed the tire while they were on a call.

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9 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

But government scientists behaving like Nazis treating people like Guinea pigs? That is why I might stop watching. It's just as stupid as torture. They are not going to learn anything of value that way. I'll give the show one more episode to have the cavalry (or Cal) ride in for the rescue, but that's about it. 

The whole idea is they aren't gov't scientists.  They are employees of this evil corporation just like the private, Blackwater-style guards are.  This is suppose to make us ask the question of whether they are "officially" sub-contracting for a gov't agency, working for rogue elements within the gov't or are they the big bad themselves.

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1 hour ago, green said:

The whole idea is they aren't gov't scientists.  They are employees of this evil corporation just like the private, Blackwater-style guards are.  This is suppose to make us ask the question of whether they are "officially" sub-contracting for a gov't agency, working for rogue elements within the gov't or are they the big bad themselves.

Okay. But my limits for watching any group (corporate or government—yours, mine, or ours) which might as well be named "Tortures Are Us" is about 2 episodes.

 

 

3 hours ago, Moose135 said:

They'll just say some mope slashed the tire while they were on a call.

"Mope?" Paging Detective Lennie Briscoe. Heh. 
But that is another problem with the show (having a cop show within a scifi-govt conspiracy show).
Especially because one of the 828 passengers is "on the job," so we have stuff like:

9 hours ago, Camera One said:

Are police detectives allowed to access anything they want on the computer with no monitoring?  I'm surprised Michaela could use her police database to find out so much.  If Jared was at work, wasn't there something specific he was supposed to be doing?  They can just spend the entire day off-grid searching for nondescript buildings

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6 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

I think the secret not-government government agency was trying some sort of "Philadelphia Experiment" trial 5.5 years ago, and someone pushed the wrong button, and, now that they're back to square one, so to speak, they're trying to both figure out what went wrong and cover their tracks.  Hence the experiments.

This is a good explanation. The six-year arc will give the writers enough time to get a relatively plausible explanation together though they'll more likely procrastinate till season five to get busy, assuming each year the show will be cancelled anyway saving them the trouble of thinking about theoretical physics. Which is more difficult to write than the soapy John! Marsha! stuff. Ben! Grace!

I liked the time contraption the govt used in the movie Deja Vu. So many variants of this, it'll be hard to come up with something new.

A six-year story arc would match the time loss of the plane. I'm afraid the show will disappear much sooner than that. It could go meta and go off the air for five years and return in 2024 and be like what do you mean we were gone that's crazy talk, this is Season 2.

Maybe it's a threat, better not cancel us or you'll never learn the secret! Yea that'll work.

Meanwhile Evil Dynamics Corp uses time more efficiently managing to get 11 patients, staff, black ops dudes, cleaning people and equipment out of that barn nearly without a trace in a matter of hours. Requiring I don't know, at least one bus and a couple of trucks. Which you think somebody would notice even in upstate NY. Maybe they have bus invisibility tech too. Or a portable time machine that gives themselves a few more hours.

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17 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Okay. But my limits for watching any group (corporate or government—yours, mine, or ours) which might as well be named "Tortures Are Us" is about 2 episodes.

Yea. They could tighten the episodes up by replacing these scenes with a sign saying [insert torture here]. They are generic, we don't need to see them. Though you could say the same for [insert chase scene here] or in this show's case [insert incredulity here]. But then there would be little left.

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Mr. Chat and I are already bored with this show.  I'm too impatient to wait 6 seasons to find the answers.  I committed to the show Lost and was disappointed, so it's hard for me to commit to another show of this kind, because I fear that the payoff won't have been worth it.  YMMV.  ;)

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I loved your entire post, @fauntleroy, but especially this:

1 HOUR AGO, FAUNTLEROY SAID:

It could go meta and go off the air for five years and return in 2024 and be like what do you mean we were gone that's crazy talk, this is Season 2.

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13 hours ago, Orillia said:

What I can't believe is the lousy quality of the picture that Michaela took.

That was driving me crazy!  Maybe it's a cop thing or a nod to having missed 5 years of socio-technical momentum, but who thinks to grab a point-and-shoot crappy digital camera to snap a quick photo? 

If The Blacklist and Lost had a baby that inherited their most unsavory features, it would be this show.

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11 hours ago, alvajon said:

Was it ever explained to the families of the missing Flight 828 folks what possibly happened to the plane, why it was gone so long? Did they just assume it went down in the ocean, was it hijacked? There was some talk in this episode about worm holes--probably the most likely explanation-- (been watching too many episodes of Ancient Aliens...)  Was everyone legally declared dead? There’s been no new news that I recall as to any explanation as to why or what caused the the returned plane to blow up.  

And about the secret black ops guys, why pick just those passengers, unless they were the ones that had no relatives as was mentioned I believe.  But still, why the experiments? Leftover Nazis?  Gimme a break.  It is all so unrealistic for this day and age.  But, it is just a t.v. show for our entertainment so we can choose to watch it or not.  Not much else on t.v. these days so it is something to watch on Monday nights.  

I like the idea of Jared and Michaela working together and possibly getting back together.  

As far as the world was concerned, the plane was lost at sea with all passengers dead ( kind of like the real-life Malaysian flight that disappeared about 2 years ago, and still hasn't been found, despite a massive search that went on for some months). In fact, a plot point from a previous episode was Grace stressing because the insurance company wanted their payout (for Ben and Cal's deaths) back. I think this week was the first time we've seen the scientific community trying to come up with an explanation for just what happened to the plane. It was a minor scene, but enough to let us know that folks were working on this. I don't think it's going to be a real part of the storyline, though. 

As for how the passengers were chosen for the experiments, they seemed to be all the foreign nationals from the flight,whose absence was easily explained by the claim that they were all repatriated to their home countries. That's why even Vance and his crew didn't realize anything was amiss, until Michaela sent the picture of the woman at the "farm" in upstate New York that was reported to have been sent home to Norway.

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Yes—the episode stated that the missing people were either foreign nationals OR Americans that had no next of kin. In other words, people that could plausibly go off the map and no one would look for.

Edited by stealinghome
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57 minutes ago, stealinghome said:

Yes—the episode stated that the missing people were either foreign nationals OR Americans that had no next of kin. In other words, people that could plausibly go off the map and no one would look for.

Which of course is ridiculous. A plane reappearing after 5.5 years wouldn’t be an American story, it would be a worldwide story. There would have been media in all the countries those passengers were from, waiting for them to come back home.

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On 11/5/2018 at 8:25 PM, willco said:

I thought Vance was a dead man ( and his sidekick ) when they pulled into the farm drive and then they just waltzed right into the Red Door room, so it was obvious that everyone flew the coop, so to speak. Here I thought Vance was the bad guy and  it appears he doesn't know all the big secrets.

 

On 11/6/2018 at 2:33 AM, green said:

But probably one of those two guys with Vance is in on it.  Maybe the younger one who tried to poo-poo the fuzzy picture of the woman as a Bigfoot sighting hardee har har boss.

OMG yes. I thought Vance was going to get cracked over the head when he found the bandage at the farm. Didn't know if sidekick was going to get hit too or if the sidekick was going to do the hitting, but it felt ominous. Good job building suspense there!

On 11/6/2018 at 4:56 AM, stealinghome said:

I thought the implication was that the Bulgarian had been in Cal’s head as much as Cal had been in his. So the psychic link works both ways.

In addition to the Bulgarian talk about calling for his mother after he wakes, prior to that the torturers said he was reacting differently from the others (and he almost died which they did not expect.) I inferred this was due to a two-way connection with Cal. Maybe Cal's cancer made the Bulgarian more vulnerable.

16 hours ago, Orillia said:

What I can't believe is the lousy quality of the picture that Michaela took.

I think this is because they were too far away and she had to max-zoom. That could blow out the pixels like we saw. And to another poster's question, I believe her using a camera was meant to signal her time loss. 6 years ago I still carried a digital camera even though I had an iPhone, because phone cameras weren't up to the task of good photography yet.

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2 hours ago, TVForever said:

As far as the world was concerned, the plane was lost at sea with all passengers dead ( kind of like the real-life Malaysian flight that disappeared about 2 years ago, and still hasn't been found, despite a massive search that went on for some months). In fact, a plot point from a previous episode was Grace stressing because the insurance company wanted their payout (for Ben and Cal's deaths) back. I think this week was the first time we've seen the scientific community trying to come up with an explanation for just what happened to the plane. It was a minor scene, but enough to let us know that folks were working on this. I don't think it's going to be a real part of the storyline, though. 

As for how the passengers were chosen for the experiments, they seemed to be all the foreign nationals from the flight,whose absence was easily explained by the claim that they were all repatriated to their home countries. That's why even Vance and his crew didn't realize anything was amiss, until Michaela sent the picture of the woman at the "farm" in upstate New York that was reported to have been sent home to Norway.

That is also quite an unbelievable plot point.  As if the news of a Norwegian person who was on that plane (a worldwide major news story) didn't return to Norway would never be realized?

Edited by Adrienne2729 · Reason: Amy Beth made the same point an hour ago :)
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5 hours ago, TVForever said:

As far as the world was concerned, the plane was lost at sea with all passengers dead ( kind of like the real-life Malaysian flight that disappeared about 2 years ago, and still hasn't been found, despite a massive search that went on for some months). In fact, a plot point from a previous episode was Grace stressing because the insurance company wanted their payout (for Ben and Cal's deaths) back. I think this week was the first time we've seen the scientific community trying to come up with an explanation for just what happened to the plane. It was a minor scene, but enough to let us know that folks were working on this. I don't think it's going to be a real part of the storyline, though. 

As for how the passengers were chosen for the experiments, they seemed to be all the foreign nationals from the flight,whose absence was easily explained by the claim that they were all repatriated to their home countries. That's why even Vance and his crew didn't realize anything was amiss, until Michaela sent the picture of the woman at the "farm" in upstate New York that was reported to have been sent home to Norway.

A little OT from the episode, but in 4 months- next March 8, the Maylaysia flight will have been missing for 5 years !! It's hard to believe, but I just heard something on the news not long ago, and I had to look it up to confirm it. Doesn't seem possible it's been that long already. And people say time isn't going by faster nowadays !

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5 hours ago, stealinghome said:

Yes—the episode stated that the missing people were either foreign nationals OR Americans that had no next of kin. In other words, people that could plausibly go off the map and no one would look for.

 

4 hours ago, Amy Beth said:

Which of course is ridiculous. A plane reappearing after 5.5 years wouldn’t be an American story, it would be a worldwide story. There would have been media in all the countries those passengers were from, waiting for them to come back home.

 

3 hours ago, Adrienne2729 said:

That is also quite an unbelievable plot point.  As if the news of a Norwegian person who was on that plane (a worldwide major news story) didn't return to Norway would never be realized?

Another one of those areas where we just have to suspend logic and go with the story. Like, how do the survivors not have the press hounding their every move? There should be scientists and doctors studying them constantly ( not experimenting on them like the secret black ops site). There’s just so much about the show that makes no sense at all if you apply logic.

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17 hours ago, fauntleroy said:

I liked the time contraption the govt used in the movie Deja Vu. So many variants of this, it'll be hard to come up with something new.

An under appreciated Denzel Washington classic!

13 hours ago, TVForever said:

As far as the world was concerned, the plane was lost at sea with all passengers dead ( kind of like the real-life Malaysian flight that disappeared about 2 years ago, and still hasn't been found, despite a massive search that went on for some months). In fact, a plot point from a previous episode was Grace stressing because the insurance company wanted their payout (for Ben and Cal's deaths) back. I think this week was the first time we've seen the scientific community trying to come up with an explanation for just what happened to the plane. It was a minor scene, but enough to let us know that folks were working on this. I don't think it's going to be a real part of the storyline, though. 

I appreciated that small scene showing that scientists were indeed trying to figure out what happened. 

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Interesting to see so much hate for Grace in this episode. A month ago, I might have been right there with you all. I can see that she's needy and self-centered and awful to both Ben and Saanvi. But after the real-life events I've gone through in the past month, she seems absolutely harmless. My boyfriend has been in the ICU, and I've watched his horrible parents degenerate from terrible to "if this was on TV, the show would be cancelled because no one could believe anyone could be that evil." So my point is, I can't hate on Grace or the writing behind her. She's quite mild compared to what I've witnessed with my own eyes. I do agree that they're setting up an endgame in which she's out of the picture and Saanvi is in, and I like that direction.

Overall, I thought it was a really fascinating episode. I honestly expected Vance to be the stereotypical government bad guy, so I love that he turned out to be totally in the dark too. And even better, he's willing to admit that he doesn't know it all, and to actually go out and investigate. I think he's about to get a lot more interesting. I also love the connection between Cal and the Bulgarian guy. I feel like the show is giving us lots of little threads that will all eventually connect, but they're leaving it to us to do a lot of detective work on our own for now. I HATED Lost, but I'm fully on board with Manifest. Can't wait to see what happens next episode!

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6 hours ago, blackrose602 said:

Interesting to see so much hate for Grace in this episode. A month ago, I might have been right there with you all. I can see that she's needy and self-centered and awful to both Ben and Saanvi. But after the real-life events I've gone through in the past month, she seems absolutely harmless.

The writers need to be less concerned about plot development and more concerned about character development.  I don't give a shit what happens to characters that I hate.  And, I do hate Grace.

IMO, there are a bunch of series  with writers that have no clue what they are doing when it comes to character development.  The writers seem to be so far more concerned with plot development and the drama that comes with it.  What they don't seem to grasp is that viewers need to care about the characters, and that the characters have to do things that are relatable and somewhat logical.  If characters routinely do stupid shit, then I would be more interested in why those characters do stupid shit, and not so much about how they get themselves out of trouble that they could have easily avoided.

 

6 hours ago, blackrose602 said:

My boyfriend has been in the ICU, and I've watched his horrible parents degenerate from terrible to "if this was on TV, the show would be cancelled because no one could believe anyone could be that evil." So my point is, I can't hate on Grace or the writing behind her. She's quite mild compared to what I've witnessed with my own eyes. I do agree that they're setting up an endgame in which she's out of the picture and Saanvi is in, and I like that direction.

 

I am sorry to hear (read) that.   I hope things get better all the way around.

Edited by icemiser69
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8 hours ago, blackrose602 said:

Interesting to see so much hate for Grace in this episode. A month ago, I might have been right there with you all. I can see that she's needy and self-centered and awful to both Ben and Saanvi. But after the real-life events I've gone through in the past month, she seems absolutely harmless. My boyfriend has been in the ICU, and I've watched his horrible parents degenerate from terrible to "if this was on TV, the show would be cancelled because no one could believe anyone could be that evil." So my point is, I can't hate on Grace or the writing behind her. She's quite mild compared to what I've witnessed with my own eyes. I do agree that they're setting up an endgame in which she's out of the picture and Saanvi is in, and I like that direction.

I don't hate Grace - I hate the way she's written. Presumably the showrunners want us to like her, so then it's frustrating to see how she's characterized in the scenes with Ben. There's a thread to pull there that would be very effective - for 5.5 years, Grace hasn't had the constant worry and daily experience of Cal's disease, so she's not going to react very well when he's in crisis. There could also be a bit of "why do I have to go through this again" - no matter how worried she is about her son. I can understand all of the worry and resentment she had about Ben before they went missing would bubble up and come out whether or not it made a lot of sense in the present moment.

You know, I think I've just talked myself out of hating that scene, though I think it could have been written better.

I am sorry you had to go through that with the parents. I hope your boyfriend is better. Emotions run high in hospitals and funerals.

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I have been a bit of a Grace defender, but I found her insufferable in this ep. I do think some of it is the actress though. Her breakdown scene was really bad. I noticed she had no actual tears.

I did straight-up love her, "I'm done with you," to Saanvi though. I rolled! I watched it twice in a row.

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1 hour ago, AriAu said:

How does the episode end? I have tried watching it 3 times and have fallen asleep each and every time!

HINT: why don't you just skip to end part that you keep missing?

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When the Bulgarian was finally stable and replaying the day from Cal's perspective -the whole "I was calling for my mother"- was that the first time he had ever spoken English?

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So Vance has been in charge of this whole operation but he didn't notice that one bus and a bunch of passengers went AWOL?   Ben seems to have more ready information about the passengers than Vance does.

Vance is relying on reports he is receiving while Ben is using independent research. Vance looked at the surveillance report for the woman that Michaela took a picture of and it said that she was observed puttering around her house in town X (didn't catch the name, sorry). His minion asked where that was and Vance said something about 200 miles outside of the artic circle. Vance had no reason to suspect the woman was not where the surveillance reports said she was. He expects those reports to be the most accurate information when it is really just a bunch of made up garbage.  Vance has 191 people to pay attention to and when 11 were boringly doing nothing, he had no reason to suspect something else was going on.

Meanwhile, Ben has no official channels for information so he was looking for bread crumbs that people leave. He was probably trying to find articles in local newspapers, phone numbers, facebook posts, whatever. TorturersRUs want the world to forget about those people (who have few connections to begin with), so they aren't leaving bread crumbs. They are just lying to Vance. Once they do a DNA test on the Bulgarian man's bandage and find out that he isn't currently in Bulgaria spending his days gardening, Vance will have to realize how connected TorturersRUs are if they are feeding him fake intel. Of course, maybe they are connected enough to mess around with the DNA test too.

For all of Grace's complaining about Ben doing nothing, he did actually make Cal better. By confronting Vance, NSA poked around and TorturersRUs had to take a break. That allowed Cal to get better.

I think Grace spent too long blaming Ben for her son's early death and she can't quite get out of the frame of mind for blaming him for everything. She said in an earlier episode that she spent a long time hating Ben. She didn't mourn Ben. She mourned her son. So, it's not surprising that she's slipping into the same pattern again.

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1 hour ago, kili said:

For all of Grace's complaining about Ben doing nothing, he did actually make Cal better. By confronting Vance, NSA poked around and TorturersRUs had to take a break. That allowed Cal to get better.

I think Grace spent too long blaming Ben for her son's early death and she can't quite get out of the frame of mind for blaming him for everything. She said in an earlier episode that she spent a long time hating Ben. She didn't mourn Ben. She mourned her son. So, it's not surprising that she's slipping into the same pattern again.

But Ben sent Michaela and Jared to the Red Door barn and alerted the NSA, which eventually led to Cal getting better. So I think Ben knew there was some kind of connection between Cal and the Bulgarian. I agree that Ben has no idea that what he did made Cal better. 

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1 hour ago, kili said:

His minion asked where that was and Vance said something about 200 miles outside of the artic circle.

His minion looks pretty damn shady.  All he was missing was a mustache to twirl.

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"He needs you to be his father!!"
Cut to Ben playing detective with the doctor, instead of sitting with his wife and son. I can see why she's pissed. I know that some people want them to split up, so that he can be with the doctor, but I really don't like them messing with a family like that. That's why I'm only just watching now. It would be a nice change if the family pulls together, and the doctor ended up with someone else. 

Edited by Anela
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I'm still watching, and I'm fully with Grace on this one. He could have sent someone else to do that, he should have stayed with his wife and son. 

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On 11/6/2018 at 3:03 AM, izabella said:

I got the impression that the secret lab experimenting on the passengers closed up shop because they were tipped off.  If so, that means someone on the NSA director's staff did that,right? 

I thought that the car with the young couple tipped them off. They acted too casual for people with an assault rifle aimed at them.

On 11/6/2018 at 3:15 PM, CleoCaesar said:

My heart grew three sizes at reading how much hate Grace is getting.

She's horrible and mindbogglingly selfish. Let the hate flow through you.

Not for me. I'm totally with her. I can understand people needing breaks, but that wasn't what he was doing. I just loathe the fact that the writers did this. 

I still don't understand why none of them were in therapy, once the plane landed. They didn't even create an online support group? Nothing? Except stalker Ben, collecting information on everyone. I'm all for a mystery, but I don't like him that much - and I've empathized when he hit that strange guy in his house, I've been on his side a few times. But he left his terrified wife in the hospital, alone. Screw him.

Edited by Anela
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She wasn't alone, the Dr and medical staff was right with her giving sound treatment. Cal is unconscious/delirious with fever, not much for the parents to do. In spite of her saying "It's okay Cal, mummy's here." Which, ugh (if I am remembering that right?). So I'm okay with letting Ben pop out for a bit to help solve the problem that is actually causing Cal's distress in the first place. In spite of Grace not believing him. I wonder if she gave similar grief to Olive for hanging out with her boyfriend or whoever instead of being at the hospital. Be in the hospital playing Candy Crush in the waiting room for the next indefinitely, to demonstrate your love for me and Cal! Or you know, let the doctors do their job.

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15 minutes ago, fauntleroy said:

Be in the hospital playing Candy Crush in the waiting room for the next indefinitely, to demonstrate your love for me and Cal! Or you know, let the doctors do their job.

It seemed to be a lot more about her than Cal. Cal didn't seem to know if Dad was there or not. Grace wanted Ben there because she believed her way was the right way and if he didn't sit there and support her, that somehow meant he didn't love his son. Meanwhile, Ben strikes me as the type of guy who needs to be doing something. Sitting around waiting for Cal to die or not die would have been hell/torture for him. If he had stuck around like Grace wanted he would have been getting in the way. He would have to know what was going on at every moment. He would be taking up all the doctors' time with questions etc. The best thing he could do for Cal was get the hell out of there. But Grace wanted him to do what was best for her. 

I get where she was coming from and I don't think she was deliberately being selfish. She was freaked out and terrified she was going to lose her son again. I just think that if he had done what she wanted it would have been the worst possible thing for everyone, including her, because I bet he'd get on her last nerve within half an our. 

I'm very interested in the link between Cal and the Bulgarian. Is it just the two of them that are linked? I was losing interest in the show but this is enough to get me to stick around at least one more week.

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9 hours ago, preeya said:

 

10 hours ago, AriAu said:

How does the episode end? I have tried watching it 3 times and have fallen asleep each and every time!

HINT: why don't you just skip to end part that you keep missing?

I'm laughing because I've done the same thing as @AriAu more than once with other shows' episodes and probably will again. I think the problem is that it's not possible to know at what point you fell asleep because you were asleep when it happened.

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When the Bulgarian was finally stable and replaying the day from Cal's perspective -the whole "I was calling for my mother"- was that the first time he had ever spoken English?

Maybe I'm totally misremembering, but I thought he was still speaking Bulgarian, and the words were in subtitles. But now I'm second guessing my memory.

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13 hours ago, AriAu said:

How does the episode end? I have tried watching it 3 times and have fallen asleep each and every time!

Vance (the TSA - ? - guy) went to the place with the red door, and the armed gunmen, only to find it empty (except for something that showed that it hadn't been empty for years). He said it proved that it hadn't been empty. 

The Bulgarian was finally stable, but I missed how that happened. Cal felt better at the same time, so Ben said maybe they didn't do anything to help after all. I'm wondering if they gave the Bulgarian something to stabilize him, so that they could move him (since they couldn't continue with what they were doing, at that location). Grace tells Ben that he can't leave them like that again, he agrees - which means that sometime soon, he will leave them again. 

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14 minutes ago, Anela said:

Vance (the TSA - ? - guy) went to the place with the red door, and the armed gunmen, only to find it empty (except for something that showed that it hadn't been empty for years). He said it proved that it hadn't been empty. 

Vance found on the floor a bloody (gross! ew!) electrode pad--presumably with Bulgarian Guy's DNA, although we didn't see the passengers' DNA being gathered--FWIW.

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This show is SO frustrating. The concept is great, and I really want to get into it. Every episode gives just enough interesting development (such as Bulgarian guy) to keep me hooked, but I space out so hard during all the stupid interpersonal scenes that I miss important info. I have to come read here to find out what happened. 

There really aren’t any major characters I’m rooting for at this point. Grace is definitely the worst, but everyone else is close. Cal is sweaty, shrill, and utterly charmless. I wish TV shows weren’t so squeamish about killing off child characters, since if we’re being honest, 90% of child characters need to be killed off. Rudy Huxtable he is not.

I can’t root for a potential coupling that starts while one or both halves are already in a committed relationship, even if it’s a bad one, so Beenvi is a non-starter for me.  

Michaela and Jared are a gray area in terms of first dibs — I keep thinking of Rory Gilmore whining “but he’s MmYYYYyyy Dean” after fucking someone else’s husband. Michaela is one of those female characters obviously written by men, and I guess it’s supposed to be relatable and charming that she’s impulsive, selfish, bad at technology, and a terrible liar. A regular Jess Day, so adorkable! Except not at all. 

Also wasn’t there something about statues coming to life and screaming at people? Did I dream that? What year is it?

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46 minutes ago, Anela said:

The Bulgarian was finally stable, but I missed how that happened. Cal felt better at the same time, so Ben said maybe they didn't do anything to help after all. I'm wondering if they gave the Bulgarian something to stabilize him, so that they could move him (since they couldn't continue with what they were doing, at that location).

I thought the Bulgarian guy stabilized simply because his captors stopped torturing him every few hours, tbh, which in turn allowed Cal's system to settle down. He seemed relatively fine at the end of the episode, when they had laid off the torture for a while.

(Ben is actually wrong that they didn't do anything to help--they did, they just didn't know it. One or both of Ben rattling Vance's cage and/or Michaela taking pictures of the medical black site caused the entire operation to go wheels up, which stopped the torture, which saved Cal--perhaps unfortunately given how annoying Cal is.)

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43 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Vance found on the floor a bloody (gross! ew!) electrode pad--presumably with Bulgarian Guy's DNA, although we didn't see the passengers' DNA being gathered--FWIW.

Ew! I'm glad my screen was too dark for me to see what it was. Thank you. 

2 minutes ago, stealinghome said:

I thought the Bulgarian guy stabilized simply because his captors stopped torturing him every few hours, tbh, which in turn allowed Cal's system to settle down. He seemed relatively fine at the end of the episode, when they had laid off the torture for a while.

(Ben is actually wrong that they didn't do anything to help--they did, they just didn't know it. One or both of Ben rattling Vance's cage and/or Michaela taking pictures of the medical black site caused the entire operation to go wheels up, which stopped the torture, which saved Cal--perhaps unfortunately given how annoying Cal is.)

I missed what was going on with him, because I was going back and forth to the kitchen, and also cuddling my dog, who was the best part about this whole freaking day. I've been in the worst mood - which is why I'm still annoyed that he left his family. But yes, I know they did help, because his sister showed up with her ex, and scared the torturers off. I just don't think that Ben is always right, just because people hate his wife. 

And Michaela: I'm waiting for the predictable episode when her ex has been helping her, and his wife wants to know what's going on. I hope I'm wrong, but they won't leave them alone, and let Mic find someone else. 

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4 minutes ago, Anela said:

And Michaela: I'm waiting for the predictable episode when her ex has been helping her, and his wife wants to know what's going on. I hope I'm wrong

I, OTOH, am hoping the best friend will just fade away, since Michaela and Jared are end game, and soap opera angst is not something I want to watch.

 

 

11 hours ago, kili said:

TorturersRUs

Thanks for the correct spelling, @kili.

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The Bulgarian guy: I thought it was torture too until the end when he reported to the doctor/tech what Cal was doing. It reminded me of the little girl in Stranger Things, who was able to telepathically spy on other people.

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9 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Vance found on the floor a bloody (gross! ew!) electrode pad--presumably with Bulgarian Guy's DNA, although we didn't see the passengers' DNA being gathered--FWIW.

I believe they said DNA was collected, though we didn't see it. Of course, given that a busload were secreted away w/o the NSA guy's knowledge, they may also have taken the results of those on the bus.

8 hours ago, JocelynCavanaugh said:

I can’t root for a potential coupling that starts while one or both halves are already in a committed relationship, even if it’s a bad one, so Beenvi is a non-starter for me.

Normally I wouldn't - but in this unique circumstance, Grace is sort of in two committed relationships and Danny is clearly better for her, and the doctor is better for Ben. So I'm on that boat.

5 hours ago, LilaFowler said:

The Bulgarian guy: I thought it was torture too until the end when he reported to the doctor/tech what Cal was doing. It reminded me of the little girl in Stranger Things, who was able to telepathically spy on other people.

Just cause it's scientific "testing" doesn't mean it's not torture, just that it's two things in one (like Doublemint Gum). But it hadn't occurred to me they were trying to use him the way Ell was used as a remote viewer on Stranger things. I think this result wasn't necessarily expected, and may be the beginning of using the Bulgarian as a remote viewer, rather than the initial testing trying to do that. Though if the Bulgarian's only connected to Cal, he isn't going to be of much use to the shadow feds.

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