S07.E17: I Still Do?

[Jax7917]

I do get a little weary of Bobby only because he seems perfect ... and went on this show to find someone . But so far , she's still happy ( though who wouldn't be when your husband waits on you hand and foot ).. so maybe it's not an act . 

[PityFree]

My assumption is that there was an oops and Bobby and Danielle found themselves “with child.”  I didn’t think either of them we’re planning or even hoping to start a family so quickly.  I’m glad they’re happy about it, but I think the pregnancy was an accident. 

[Jax7917]

3 minutes ago, Spectator said:

I just think everyone should LOVE and embrace their own skin color and love themselves! If some guy named Tristan doesn’t like darker skinned women, so what? I don’t see that as an assault on me or on my race. It’s just his personal preference and not a big deal to me at all. Tristan’s preference certainly isn’t a universal preference. For every “Tristan” out there, there’s another guy who prefers the darkest woman he can find. And I think that is awesome. I don’t in any way hold it against Tristan for expressing his preference. If I did then wouldn’t I have to disapprove of every interracial couple I know? And then wouldn’t I be the racist one? I don’t take it personally when someone prefers a woman who looks different than I. I’m not offended one bit. I actually applaud men who have enough self awareness to figure out what they do and don’t prefer in a partner. The fact that we are all different shades makes us all the more interesting and ultimately more beautiful. Wouldn’t it be dull if every single person on the planet had the exact same skin color? And isn’t it wonderful that not every single person on the planet is attracted to the exact same skin color. There is someone out there for everyone. If one guy says “no thanks” to my darker skin, there’s another one out there who will happily say “yes please”. I love my skin color but I certainly wouldn’t resent someone who prefers something different. I said it before...to each their own. My skin color is just one of many many physical characteristics that make me “me”. I like the way I look,  but I certainly don’t expect everyone else out there to agree, regardless of their race, haircolor, height, whatever. And that’s absolutely ok with me. 

Perfectly stated . 

[Jeanne222]

Danielle and Bobby.  What a sweet couple.  He's in love but she always looks ready for flight but aside from that they surely seem happy with their lives.  Didn't she come into all this with a ton of debt?  I wonder if Bobby has taken care of that for her.  He's a keeper for sure and I'll bet he quits his job and become a stay at home dad and a good one at that.

Amber and Dave.  Sigh.  Amber is so needy and Dave loves seeing her squirm.  The sex must have been amazing for them to have stayed together this long with Gym guy always in the wings.  Why wouldn't he/she change gyms?  They kind of left that one up in the air.

Tristan and Mia.  That one should have ended at the airport when she was arrested and the only reason it didn't was because lots of time and money was invested in this program and 'the show must go on'.  They could not do 8 weeks with just two couples.  I look for them to start with four couples as a cushion.

[LilaFowler]

Danielle's emotional coldness will probably dissolve when her water breaks. I'm happy for them. Doing the HEA show makes good financial sense for them. I have read elsewhere that participants will earn six figures.

Poor Amber got flat-out dumped (again) last night. I'm not sure why Dave even wore his wedding ring since he made it clear that he's done with her and will file for divorce. I wish Amber could have read the temperature of the room, so to speak, and expressed that she was done with him also. Instead she looked desperate to stay in the marriage.

Mia and Tristan, I don't even care.

[princelina]

1 hour ago, Jeanne222 said:

Amber and Dave.  Sigh.  Amber is so needy and Dave loves seeing her squirm.  The sex must have been amazing for them to have stayed together this long with Gym guy always in the wings.  Why wouldn't he/she change gyms?  They kind of left that one up in the air.

Amber said Dave and the experts wanted them to but she refused.

[Kdawg82]

2 hours ago, Apollo said:

She was never rude or aggressive towards him and seems like a lovely person, but I just kept feeling like she was bound and determined to "get her way" in a very quiet sort of way.  Is there something I am missing?  Anyone else pick up on this?

YES! - interesting you bring this up. There was a moment when they came out of the water on their fishing trip when Bobby playfully put a fish he caught up to her face . She laughed & played it off for exactly one second until she dropped her smile & barked out "ENOUGH!" A moment where she had no problem "expressing her emotions." She wasn't having that fish so close to the perfectly coiffed brows! LoL

Like I said- comes across high maintenance but believes she is low maint.

[StatisticalOutlier]

2 hours ago, PityFree said:

My assumption is that there was an oops and Bobby and Danielle found themselves “with child.”  I didn’t think either of them we’re planning or even hoping to start a family so quickly.  I’m glad they’re happy about it, but I think the pregnancy was an accident. 

Here's what you said in the discussion of the very first episode (I found it because I remembered the same thing and wanted to verify it):

Quote

Except that Bobby specifically requested that he be matched with someone younger than he was because he did not want to be  matched with a woman whose baby clock was ticking loudly. When the experts phoned him to ask if it was OK to match him with Danielle who is three years older than he is, he said it would be OK as long as  she didn’t want to have a baby right away.  Danielle told the experts that she was not  anxious to have a baby immediately, but then she started talking about babies while dress shopping. That’s a problem.

Makes me wonder.  Like maybe Bobby just wanted a younger woman and cloaked it in "baby clock" terms to make people not judge him harshly for his preference for younger women. 

Or maybe he just didn't know what the hell he wanted, since he specified a younger woman who doesn't want children soon, and he's seemingly happy with an older woman who's pregnant after just a few months.

[Crazy Bird Lady]

1 hour ago, princelina said:

Amber said Dave and the experts wanted them to but she refused.

I think that refusal was Amber refusing to make a change that she thought would displease Dave --especially since, if she agreed to it, she would pretty much be admitting there was something scandalous she was hiding.

Just sayin'  ...It's all about appearances, and criticism on social media, etc.

Edited October 25, 2018 by Crazy Bird Lady

[princelina]

21 minutes ago, Crazy Bird Lady said:

I think that refusal was Amber refusing to make a change that she thought would displease Dave --especially since, if she agreed to it, she would pretty much be admitting there was something scandalous she was hiding.

Just sayin'  ...It's all about appearances, and criticism on social media, etc.

I thought she said that they all wanted it and she didn't, and she now regrets not making the change since Dave was more hung up on it than she realized?

[lh25]

I'm with those wondering what happened with Amber and Gym guy.  And I'm wondering how close the friendship was between Gym guy and Dave that he hadn't met Amber while she was dating him.

[Neurochick]

5 hours ago, scruffy73 said:

For a black person to say he doesn’t want someone who looks like a black person, it gives off the “the closer to white, the closer to right” kind of feel. And as a black person on the receiving end of that, it is painful to be rejected for being and looking black by someone black. You can trace it back to the slave plantation where lighter skinned slaves may have been treated better than darker hued slaves. It continues even today in that lighter hued people may be looked at as more preferable than a darker skinned person. So no, it is not as simple as “preference”, there is a history there. A painful history of discrimination even within our race.

This post.  I wish I could like it a million times.

[ChiCricket]

6 hours ago, Yeah No said:

She knew Dave felt that way all along, that's why she felt insecure.  She had a good REASON to feel insecure.  You're not really insecure if you have a good REASON to be.

 Exactly.

This reminds me of the saying: Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that they aren't out to get you. 

[Blissfool]

5 hours ago, Matty said:

I'll add a positive comment to this thread. I'm so happy that Henry and Nellie get a new baby sister or brother. That is all. Back to the snark.

I stopped watching this show about 3 episodes ago because boring and predictable, but I sure did miss those adorable dogs, especially Henry. 

 

I noticed Danielle dialed down the eyebrows. I wonder if she didn't like how harsh they looked on TV.

[OnTime]

34 minutes ago, lh25 said:

I'm with those wondering what happened with Amber and Gym guy.  And I'm wondering how close the friendship was between Gym guy and Dave that he hadn't met Amber while she was dating him.

I'm wondering the same things! 

As Gym Guy clearly talked with Dave about Amber, I'm sure Dave would have asked what does she look like or to see a picture of her.

I also think there had to be a time when Gym Guy, Dave and Amber were all at the gym at the same time.  Gym Guy wouldn't have had to introduce them, but he would have pointed Amber out to Dave.

Something doesn't add up!

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Apollo said:

On Bobby & Danielle:  Okay, so, just checking into these boards for the 1st time in a long time --  I have not gone through all the earlier threads from the beginning of this season, so I don't know what everyone thinks yet -- but, I am so surprised, on this latest thread, that literally no one thinks it's odd that Bobby has been jumping through hoops for Danielle from day one, taking on her commitments and responsibilities while she was away for work and sort of instantly becoming a house-husband and bending to her every wish.  NOW, if that doesn't create an "argument-free" relationship, what will?   

Didn't she also say she wasn't ready for home-life/Mom-life yet, because of her commitment to her career?  That she could NOT see herself "at home" when she spoke to his Mom and sister. 

Exactly what has changed?  Will he now be caring for the random foster puppies (and poop) and the baby too, while she's away someplace?  I want the best for them both, especially now that a precious life is on the way, but I am wondering about the 360 turn? 

I cringed this entire show each time he took on something else for her and how he waited an eternity for some verbal feedback of her feelings, which still seems orchestrated by producers, especially in this last episode, where she turns to face him . . . Seemed like she was being told to do that to "create a moment".

She was never rude or aggressive towards him and seems like a lovely person, but I just kept feeling like she was bound and determined to "get her way" in a very quiet sort of way.  Is there something I am missing?  Anyone else pick up on this?

To be fair to them, I think we all saw what we wanted to see with respect to Bobby and Danielle. Bobby had mentioned that in past relationships, he had done all the work. I think the producers saw that even though they are an adorable power couple, they're also quite boring because they never have conflict and Danielle herself admits she's not very expressive. So the producers manipulated her reserve nature in editing to make it look like she was never giving Bobby any affection and essentially using him as a maid. The reality is probably somewhere in between. I think Bobby is naturally much more emotive and affectionate than Danielle, but that doesn't necessarily mean Danielle is cold or lying about feelings for him. They definitely have different love languages, which runs the risk of burning out Bobby in particular since we've been given the impression that he runs around doing all the housework and doing anything he can think of to please Danielle, but for now he seems absolutely infatuated and over the moon. I want a Bobby!

[crazychicken]

Quote

She knew Dave felt that way all along, that's why she felt insecure.  She had a good REASON to feel insecure.  You're not really insecure if you have a good REASON to be.

For me insecurity comes from the inside, it was Ambers own doubt about herself that blew everything out of proportion and until Amber likes and accepts herself for who she is the issue will continue to damage her relationships. This does not mean Dave was innocent and did not feed her insecurity at times but I think no matter how much reassurance he offered her it was never going to be enough. It really started on the wrong foot when she found out his normal type was brunette, she felt like that must mean he wasn't attracted to her even though he assured her more than once that was not the case. He told her repeatedly that he was attracted to her but she dismissed it for a comment he made before he even met her instead of accepting him at his word. Amber was looking for slights and then internalizing them which feed her insecurities it was a cycle within herself that built the barrier. I think Amber would benefit from building some resilience, if somebody doesn't like something about her then she needs to shrug it off because she knows that is not who she is and it only damaging her. There is always going to be jerks in the world and I hope that Amber can find her own self worth so that she is the one to walk away knowing that they are not worth her time or emotional energy because the problem is not her.

[DrewPaul2010]

Psycho,

Quote

Because it can't be said enough, these "experts" suck.  Really, really suck.

They can't make marriages work and bear in mind the people who apply already have issues with finding a mate. Secondly what kind of person thinks someone can pick a mate for them?

Quote

When they were screening their applicants and narrowing down the potentials, didn't they notice that Dave and Amber went to the same gym?

I wouldn't have thought where you go to gym is that relevant unless you're a gym rat. Too much is being made of Dave's gym friend I don't believe the result would be different, the constant up and downs were the downfall.

Quote

I felt bad for her last night.  Yes, she was wrong to pack up and leave while Dave was out -- especially after both of them said that Tristan throwing Mia out/Mia leaving was unacceptable and you couldn't come back from that.

When she did that she should have been expecting that it was the final nail in the coffin. She abandoned the marriage and did it behind his back. Had it been a great marriage up to this point and this was some crazy aberration counseling and reconciliation would be appropriate. I can't blame Dave for not wanting more of same and he has seen nothing else. I don't think she said he did something outrageous that led to this. She is impetuous and regretted her impetuous decision.

Quote

I was watching Tristan's reactions when the "experts" were instructing him and Mia to stay above the fray and remain polite during the divorce conversation.  Tristan was not having any of it.  It was almost funny.  He had his head down, he wouldn't look at the "experts" and he was making facial expressions that to me read "These fucking guys don't have a fucking clue what they're talking about."  Ha!  The "experts" should just admit they should have encouraged Tristan to get an annulment pronto after Mia was "detained."  

Clearly Tristan had more to say on the issue but in the end it doesn't matter does anyone think its a marriage worth saving?

[Marsh]

5 hours ago, scruffy73 said:

For a black person to say he doesn’t want someone who looks like a black person, it gives off the “the closer to white, the closer to right” kind of feel. 

How do you think a white person feels when they read your post?  Tristan didn't say "I prefer to date white women"...  He said "lighter skin".  Yet you took it directly to "white" for some reason.

 

Why are there search filters on dating websites that allow you to search for any type of woman/guy you want?  Are all these websites racist?  Height/wt/race/age/smoker/tattoos/has kids/whatever.  People have preferences and that's OK.  

 

I'm white and I like to date Asian women.  Does that mean I have not and will not date white/black/mexican/etc. women?  Hell no.  It's just a preference.  I would date Bobby's sister right now if she was available and in my area.  (And if she had low standards because she's out of my league). 

 

In conclusion, 90% of my posts involve making fun of the "experts".  I'd like to return to that now.

[Blissfool]

I don't necessarily think that gym guy was bad-talking Amber. Maybe Dave just doesn't like the fact that his friend has been intimate with his his wife, that he has seen her naked and at her most vulnerable. Dave knows Amber has had previous sexual partners and that's ok, but one of them being his friend is not ok with him. I totally get it. I, too, wouldn't like to find out that my husband used to date my friend and i wouldnt say it's because of immaturity or insecurity. It'd be more of a case of boundaries. Are Dave and I oddballs for thinking this way.

[Ilovepie]

10 minutes ago, Blissfool said:

Are Dave and I oddballs for thinking this way.

I don’t think so, and I don’t think Amber really had a leg to stand on in this issue either. She is the same person who said she didn’t want to live in Dave’s apartment if he had lived there with another woman, and she completely freaked when he was making polite small talk with her brunette friend when they were finishing working out. I would be uncomfortable whether it was my ex or my husband’s ex. It’s just awkward. 

[Yeah No]

7 hours ago, crazychicken said:

For me insecurity comes from the inside, it was Ambers own doubt about herself that blew everything out of proportion and until Amber likes and accepts herself for who she is the issue will continue to damage her relationships. This does not mean Dave was innocent and did not feed her insecurity at times but I think no matter how much reassurance he offered her it was never going to be enough. It really started on the wrong foot when she found out his normal type was brunette, she felt like that must mean he wasn't attracted to her even though he assured her more than once that was not the case. He told her repeatedly that he was attracted to her but she dismissed it for a comment he made before he even met her instead of accepting him at his word. Amber was looking for slights and then internalizing them which feed her insecurities it was a cycle within herself that built the barrier. I think Amber would benefit from building some resilience, if somebody doesn't like something about her then she needs to shrug it off because she knows that is not who she is and it only damaging her. There is always going to be jerks in the world and I hope that Amber can find her own self worth so that she is the one to walk away knowing that they are not worth her time or emotional energy because the problem is not her.

Well you see, that's the point - Amber left herself vulnerable to Dave.  That's because Amber was seriously opening her heart to him in hopes that he would return the feeling.  When anyone opens their heart to someone and becomes vulnerable to them they lose some of that "walls up" "resilience" that you refer to above.  That's no mark against her, but it leaves her more affected by his criticism and lack of caring.  Perhaps if Amber were only dating Dave, she should have been more emotionally cautious, but she MARRIED the guy and had all her hopes invested in him.  I think it's a little too much to just expect her to "shrug it off" when that guy turns out to be a real jerk.  I also wonder how many women who really invested themselves in this process, when faced with a Dave wouldn't also take his criticism and lack of acceptance to heart to the point that it would damage their self esteem and make them more insecure.  I am sure that now that Amber is on the other side of this relationship she will come back much stronger and more unwilling to allow a guy like this to rob her of her self esteem.  Of course, she won't MARRY them first, so I'm sure it will be much easier.

[Yeah No]

6 hours ago, Marsh said:

How do you think a white person feels when they read your post?  Tristan didn't say "I prefer to date white women"...  He said "lighter skin".  Yet you took it directly to "white" for some reason.

 

Why are there search filters on dating websites that allow you to search for any type of woman/guy you want?  Are all these websites racist?  Height/wt/race/age/smoker/tattoos/has kids/whatever.  People have preferences and that's OK.  

 

I'm white and I like to date Asian women.  Does that mean I have not and will not date white/black/mexican/etc. women?  Hell no.  It's just a preference.  I would date Bobby's sister right now if she was available and in my area.  (And if she had low standards because she's out of my league). 

I am a white woman of Italian descent.  I'm short and brunette.  I never felt like that was a problem until I went to a college where a lot of the women were tall, blonde, and from a WASP background.  Suddenly I felt like I was being passed over specifically because I was "too ethnic" looking for some guys.  Sure, there was the oddball WASP guy that liked me, but I was really cute and should have had tons of guys interested in me.  It gave me a complex about my appearance that I didn't shed until much later in life.  The fact that my mother had to tailor all my clothes to fit me didn't help either.  I felt that society was clearly telling me I was inferior.  Unfortunately my mother had a similar experience in her youth.  We were both convinced it came from ethnic prejudice, and looking back on it, I'm sure it did.  Now, this is even FAR from the same thing as the feeling that @Neurochick and others have been describing, but maybe it will help you understand that not everything like this comes from just some kind of aesthetic preference.  Tristan didn't impress me that he was motivated only by some kind of physical preference.  At first I was on his side about this, but I have come around to seeing him differently.  Sure, he didn't ask for a white woman, but from the POV of a person of color, colorism extends to all shades in between pure black and white.  I'd suggest watching some YouTube's in which black men and women talk specifically about Tristan and colorism.  It might open your eyes a bit, like it did mine.

[Yeah No]

8 hours ago, ChiCricket said:

 Exactly.

This reminds me of the saying: Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that they aren't out to get you. 

Haha, I thought of that saying when I wrote that post!

[crazychicken]

1 hour ago, Yeah No said:

Well you see, that's the point - Amber left herself vulnerable to Dave.  That's because Amber was seriously opening her heart to him in hopes that he would return the feeling.  When anyone opens their heart to someone and becomes vulnerable to them they lose some of that "walls up" "resilience" that you refer to above.  That's no mark against her, but it leaves her more affected by his criticism and lack of caring.  Perhaps if Amber were only dating Dave, she should have been more emotionally cautious, but she MARRIED the guy and had all her hopes invested in him.  I think it's a little too much to just expect her to "shrug it off" when that guy turns out to be a real jerk.  I also wonder how many women who really invested themselves in this process, when faced with a Dave wouldn't also take his criticism and lack of acceptance to heart to the point that it would damage their self esteem and make them more insecure.  I am sure that now that Amber is on the other side of this relationship she will come back much stronger and more unwilling to allow a guy like this to rob her of her self esteem.  Of course, she won't MARRY them first, so I'm sure it will be much easier.

See I think that Amber's lack of self esteem is not a new thing that only occurred with Dave, I do not know why but she seem to think she is always being judged and comes up lacking in other peoples eyes. Sure some of the time she is being judged as humans we all judge people but that is the other persons opinion only not the truth. When I talk resilience I mean knowing your own worth and not letting others opinions affect you, my mother is law has Borderline Personality disorder  and she says some truly mean things but I know they are not the truth so I just shrug them off, if she is in full flight I tell her I do not like how she is speaking to me and disengage the battle is not worth my emotional energy because at the end of the day if I dwell on her opinion it will be my husbands and my relationship that suffers the most. That is what I hope Amber can achieve so next time she dates a douche that she knows that he is a douche and it has nothing to do with her and she can walk away head held high knowing that she deserves better. While she takes every perceived slight on board and stews over them it is her that it is affecting the most the other party walks away without a second thought.

[Starlight925]

14 hours ago, scruffy73 said:

For a black person to say he doesn’t want someone who looks like a black person, it gives off the “the closer to white, the closer to right” kind of feel. And as a black person on the receiving end of that, it is painful to be rejected for being and looking black by someone black. You can trace it back to the slave plantation where lighter skinned slaves may have been treated better than darker hued slaves. It continues even today in that lighter hued people may be looked at as more preferable than a darker skinned person. So no, it is not as simple as “preference”, there is a history there. A painful history of discrimination even within our race.

Thank you so much for this explanation.  This actually makes the most sense of this issue that I've seen.

All along, I admit, I was thinking, well so what, it's Tristan's preference, like guys who like blondes, etc.  But your explanation clears this up for me, and I now see it for what it is:  a "colorist", a brand of racism within a race.   I so much appreciate your feedback on this.

[aphroditewitch]

15 hours ago, scruffy73 said:

For a black person to say he doesn’t want someone who looks like a black person, it gives off the “the closer to white, the closer to right” kind of feel. And as a black person on the receiving end of that, it is painful to be rejected for being and looking black by someone black. You can trace it back to the slave plantation where lighter skinned slaves may have been treated better than darker hued slaves. It continues even today in that lighter hued people may be looked at as more preferable than a darker skinned person. So no, it is not as simple as “preference”, there is a history there. A painful history of discrimination even within our race.

Precisely. When people give colorism a pass,they are ignoring the ugly history behind it or they don't care about that history. They are ignoring the self-harm that can result from it. 

[Yeah No]

58 minutes ago, crazychicken said:

See I think that Amber's lack of self esteem is not a new thing that only occurred with Dave, I do not know why but she seem to think she is always being judged and comes up lacking in other peoples eyes. Sure some of the time she is being judged as humans we all judge people but that is the other persons opinion only not the truth. When I talk resilience I mean knowing your own worth and not letting others opinions affect you, my mother is law has Borderline Personality disorder  and she says some truly mean things but I know they are not the truth so I just shrug them off, if she is in full flight I tell her I do not like how she is speaking to me and disengage the battle is not worth my emotional energy because at the end of the day if I dwell on her opinion it will be my husbands and my relationship that suffers the most. That is what I hope Amber can achieve so next time she dates a douche that she knows that he is a douche and it has nothing to do with her and she can walk away head held high knowing that she deserves better. While she takes every perceived slight on board and stews over them it is her that it is affecting the most the other party walks away without a second thought.

A lot of women aren't perfect when it comes to self-esteem.  I feel that in most cases this is blaming the victim, so it bothers me when I see people piling the criticism on someone like Amber, who has probably had repeated assholes like Dave chip away at her sense of self worth over the years.  I think she is a sensitive soul and takes to heart what the men in her life say to her and do to her.  To me that says a lot about her character that she is not a stone and has real feelings.  In spite of that she is not laying down like a victim but getting up and dusting herself off - That was obvious to me in this episode, so I for one am cheering for her, not looking to pile on her with the criticism.  Again, I would like to know how many women would suffer through a very real marriage to a douche like Dave and not come out the other side with a few scars.

[Starlight925]

The problem with this concept is that there are just so many broken people out there, and even the most revered expert in the world can't fix a lifetime of self-esteem issues, or daddy didn't love mommy enough, or whatever, by simply matching them up with someone who is equally broken.

Everyone has childhood stuff that gets carried into adulthood.  Everyone.  It would take years of therapy to undo whatever damage Mia is acting out, for example.

So simply fixing them up on a date, which happens to also be a marriage, is the wrong concept.

Anyone can be "ready" for marriage because they want it.  That doesn't mean they are really "ready".  They are only ready when they can truly treat the marriage, and the partner, as a completely clean slate from their own past demons.  Most of these people are simply not there.

[retiredviewer]

On 10/23/2018 at 9:48 PM, ECM1231 said:

Yep, I said it above and Amber confirmed that Dave never really got over her dating gym guy and the marriage was doomed from the start. Amber, I am rooting for you, insecurities and all. I hope you meet someone who gives you the warm and fuzzies and is not a judgmental, cold prick like Dave.

I hope she learns from this and gets some help for her insecurities. No man will be able to give her what she wants until she does gets some serious counseling.

[humbleopinion]

Agreed.

Bobby was ready ready for marriage...he was "Ricky Bobby" ready from the moment he saw Danielle.

The day after they got married, Bobby used Dr. Jessica to help him confront Danielle's inability to give him clues about what she is thinking or feeling. 

Pretty bold and surprising for the seemingly mild manner gentleman who has been characterized as afraid to rock the boat.

This signaled to Danielle that he was all in, he wanted to be able to communicate with her and read her communication, especially the more telling nonverbal.

Danielle was ready but wary.

It took a Ricky Bobby, someone who was going to be the all in partner willing to do all of the house chores because she was commuting 3 hours to and from work.

Someone willing to help her resolve her outstanding debts and do the poop patrol for her fosters.

He communicated to her early and often that he would do anything to make the marriage work.

What did Danielle do in return?

Danielle accepted Bobby as he was, he stated to Tricia that he was his authentic self from Day 1.

He had never had other than family love him with quirks, idiosyncrasies and grandpa self...but Danielle got his humor, didn't try to change him and now they will be parents.

Others may think their segments were boring and sappy but it was how they fell in love.

And...I love...LOVE!

[islandgal140]

15 hours ago, Jaclyn88 said:

Tristan’s preference certainly isn’t a universal preference. For every “Tristan” out there, there’s another guy who prefers the darkest woman he can find. And I think that is awesome. I don’t in any way hold it against Tristan for expressing his preference.

To too many darker hued women it may feel like a universal preference. I really don't mean to make light of this (pun intended) but it is real out there. Even the pastor Cal has come out and say this has been an issue and why we don't see more black couple matches on the show. Just a few years ago it was the in thing on social media to bash and make dark women feel bad about themselves. There was actual a campaign on twitter entitled "ruin a black/dark woman's day." On French twitter, they had an 'everything about me is black but my girlfriend' topic trending. WTF?!!

Recently, a few lower level celebs have been called out on doing this in their younger days. And these celebs were either black men themselves or lighter hued black/biracial women. Their excuse? It was years ago, they were young. I guess shitting on the self-esteem of darker women is a rite of passage. 

Not for nothing but if I had to count on the # of men who I have actually heard and seen seek and prefer the darkest women to put food on my table, I would have starved to death long ago. 

Is it hopeless? No. I am heartened by the melanin popping and natural movements. Black Panther didn't hurt either. 

[Ilovepie]

3 hours ago, Yeah No said:

that guy turns out to be a real jerk.

I think this is the real issue at heart - I (and some of the others here) don’t feel that Dave is a “real jerk”. I would be fine with most of what he said to Amber that set her off completely because I don’t think he said anything wrong, with the exception being the mini moon, but I don’t think he would have behaved that way if she hadn’t driven him crazy by that point. I don’t mind the tone of how he said anything either because I am married to a “Dave”, but we are fine because I too am a lot like Dave. I think we all agree that Amber is fragile and needs help. I think the main point of dissension is how everyone feels about Dave, and at this point, no one is going to change their mind. 

I think this my last defense of him, but I have enjoyed the discussion! On to Philly!

[Neurochick]

1 hour ago, Sterling said:

The problem with this concept is that there are just so many broken people out there, and even the most revered expert in the world can't fix a lifetime of self-esteem issues, or daddy didn't love mommy enough, or whatever, by simply matching them up with someone who is equally broken.

Everyone has childhood stuff that gets carried into adulthood.  Everyone.  It would take years of therapy to undo whatever damage Mia is acting out, for example.

So simply fixing them up on a date, which happens to also be a marriage, is the wrong concept.

Anyone can be "ready" for marriage because they want it.  That doesn't mean they are really "ready".  They are only ready when they can truly treat the marriage, and the partner, as a completely clean slate from their own past demons.  Most of these people are simply not there.

I don't know about this.  I doubt that everybody who gets married, even those who have successful marriages, have no self esteem issues, or daddy issues or anything.  Humans aren't machine, we're not perfect, everybody on the planet has "stuff."

[gonecrackers]

13 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

I don't know about this.  I doubt that everybody who gets married, even those who have successful marriages, have no self esteem issues, or daddy issues or anything.  Humans aren't machine, we're not perfect, everybody on the planet has "stuff."

I agree with this. The biggest problem is a lack of self awareness. Once a person is aware of their issues & are mindful of their reactions they can handle themselves better in a relationship. I think Amber is on her way with this now. She just has to leave the baby obsession behind so she doesn't jump into something else with the bio clock thing being primarily on her mind.

2 hours ago, Yeah No said:

A lot of women aren't perfect when it comes to self-esteem.  I feel that in most cases this is blaming the victim, so it bothers me when I see people piling the criticism on someone like Amber, who has probably had repeated assholes like Dave chip away at her sense of self worth over the years.  I think she is a sensitive soul and takes to heart what the men in her life say to her and do to her.  To me that says a lot about her character that she is not a stone and has real feelings.  In spite of that she is not laying down like a victim but getting up and dusting herself off - That was obvious to me in this episode, so I for one am cheering for her, not looking to pile on her with the criticism.

Amber has been labeled insecure & it's been drilled into us because she was open about her feelings - consequently her makeup, skin care routine, hair dye, etc, all came into question as being part of her insecurities. I can understand her comments & reactions, but not every woman who wears makeup & has a skin care routine is woefully insecure. If that's the case I see Danielle as much more insecure than Amber, who we saw in interviews several times with hardly any makeup. Danielle is so self-protective she came off emotionally constipated & wears a TON of eye makeup that looks ridiculous (unless a professional dials it down 12 notches for her). Fine if you want to have tatted brows or eyelash extensions, but she wears too much makeup on top of that, which is not supposed to be necessary. If anyone slathered the makeup on it was Danielle, but she's come across as confident & self assured to some. 

2 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Again, I would like to know how many women would suffer through a very real marriage to a douche like Dave and not come out the other side with a few scars.

She definitely dodged a real bullet for her life, but now hopefully realizes her worth & picks it up well from here.

[CousinOliver]

1 hour ago, Ilovepie said:

I think this is the real issue at heart - I (and some of the others here) don’t feel that Dave is a “real jerk”. I would be fine with most of what he said to Amber that set her off completely because I don’t think he said anything wrong, with the exception being the mini moon, but I don’t think he would have behaved that way if she hadn’t driven him crazy by that point. I don’t mind the tone of how he said anything either because I am married to a “Dave”, but we are fine because I too am a lot like Dave. I think we all agree that Amber is fragile and needs help. I think the main point of dissension is how everyone feels about Dave, and at this point, no one is going to change their mind. 

I think this my last defense of him, but I have enjoyed the discussion! On to Philly!

Let me second this.  

I don't think Amber is Dave's "victim", either.  They were incompatible.  He's cerebral and comes off as cold, she's emotional and comes off as insecure (I think she is very insecure, but it's always hard to tell from a reality show edit.) Personally, I wouldn't even want to be friends with someone like Amber.  It'd exhaust me.  

[MV713]

20 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I'm confused.  Black is a race, not a nationality.  You can be black and from America, or black and from the West Indies, or Black and from South American, or black from the continent of Africa.

However you classify it - race, color, nationality - you cannot help what features you are attracted to.  
This has been my annoyance with all the hate Tristan got for saying he didn't like women who were darker than him.

That's the same as me saying I am not attracted to red headed men with light skin and freckles.  Does that make me a colorist or a racist?  

Edited October 25, 2018 by MV713
wrong word

[Neurochick]

51 minutes ago, MV713 said:

However you classify it - race, color, nationality - you cannot help what features you are attracted to.  
This has been my annoyance with all the hate Tristan got for saying he didn't like women who were darker than him.

That's the same as me saying I am not attracted to red headed men with light skin and freckles.  Does that make me a colorist or a racist?  

The difference is that there's a history in the US of hatred of darker skinned people, especially women.  I started watching videos like these and I was like, "wow, I didn't think this shit was still an issue."  

[Marsh]

6 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I am a white woman of Italian descent.

 

"but maybe it will help you understand"

 

"I'd suggest watching some YouTube's in which black men and women talk specifically about Tristan and colorism.  It might open your eyes a bit, like it did mine."

Shoutout to Italians.  When I say bye to my parents I throw in a "bafangool eh."

 

Andddddddd I'll pass on your last two comments.  A few of us are divided on Tristan's comments and people are allowed to have different opinions.  But with the way PC culture is nowadays, it's as if there can only be one right opinion on every topic.  I understand arguments for both opinions and I'm good where I'm at.  I don't need help understanding anything.

This was just supposed to be a light lunch.

[gonecrackers]

10 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

The difference is that there's a history in the US of hatred of darker skinned people, especially women.  I started watching videos like these and I was like, "wow, I didn't think this shit was still an issue."  

Purely speculative comment, but, it seems like because some people are hateful racists everyone who expresses a color preference will be labeled as such, which doesn't seem fair.

In Tristan's case, we saw that one comment; as far as I know there was nothing else mentioned about it the rest of the time. It seems quite a jump to label him as the label itself could be quite offensive.

[Kdawg82]

A lot of back and forth on the forum about preferences and self esteem. I firmly believe "there is a lid for every pot." Some men not only accept but prefer "big girls." My husband LOVES brunettes . I am not really brunette - quite grey in fact with a demi permanent ash blonde over it every 3 weeks or so. My husband doesn't like "thin" women either.  He is constantly propositioned by women & gets attention while I had to grow an attraction to him. Point being - you can have a type, or you can grow in love and attraction based on personality . Lust fades over time while my hubs is crazy obsessed with my physically - we chose the best lifelong partner who would be a good parent , wanted family immediately , same core values. I had a past, he didn't.  He was able to see past my past ? Now we are the only one for each other . Let it be.

[Neurochick]

1 minute ago, Kdawg82 said:

Lust fades over time while my hubs is crazy obsessed with my physically - we chose the best lifelong partner who would be a good parent , wanted family immediately , same core values.

Very true.  That's why Tristan and Mia didn't work IMO.  He liked the way she looked and I think that's why he didn't kick her to the curb when he found out she was a stalker/thief.  In the end, Tristan realized that if you marry looks, looks will be all you get.  

[LennieBriscoe]

We saw Amber's "insecurity" after:

She married stranger Dave; 

he learned she dated a fellow gym rat, who kissed and told;

he showed displeasure with her beloved pet Paisley;

he named her exact opposite  physical type as his "ideal";

Dave rated Amber a mediocre "but honest" 7.5/10, when she knew Tristan had rated Misdemeanor Mia an 8;

and finally, though he was willing to have innumerable sex sessions with her,  God forbid that Amber had the temerity to repeat a question to "BT,  DT" Dave. 

I suspect that, had Dave been a Ricky Bobby about,  to,  and for her,  Amber might have rated a "10" in self-confidence.

Edited October 25, 2018 by LennieBriscoe

[Neurochick]

18 minutes ago, LennieBriscoe said:

I suspect that, had Dave been a Ricky Bobby about,  to,  and for her,  Amber might have rated a "10" in self-confidence.

Does that mean that Amber's self worth is 100% in the hands of others?  A Ricky Bobby makes her bloom while a Dave makes her wilt?  So what happens if she meets a Ricky Bobby and life circumstances turn him into a Dave?

[humbleopinion]

If Tristan had been a Rickey Bobby then...

Mia wouldn't have to lie about her stalking and credit card fraud charges...RB would say ...your past is your past...

She would not been hollered at or yelled at and we would see she has a neck...like ET's extendable one...

RB would come after her when she fled.

RB would not quit or "be done" with her...

But a RB may not be able to imagine a future with someone like Mia who is not right in the head....

[gonecrackers]

58 minutes ago, LennieBriscoe said:

We saw Amber's "insecurity" after:

She married stranger Dave; 

he learned she dated a fellow gym rat, who kissed and told;

he showed displeasure with her beloved pet Paisley;

he named her exact opposite  physical type as his "ideal";

Dave rated Amber a mediocre "but honest" 7.5/10, when she knew Tristan had rated Misdemeanor Mia an 8;

and finally, though he was willing to have innumerable sex sessions with her,  God forbid that Amber had the temerity to repeat a question to "BT,  DT" Dave. 

I suspect that, had Dave been a Ricky Bobby about,  to,  and for her,  Amber might have rated a "10" in self-confidence.

Or, even if insecure, Ricky Bobby would've had a good time encouraging & supporting her, making her feel all around loved & cherished - & not just in bed.

[ChiMama]

On 10/24/2018 at 9:40 AM, humbleopinion said:

Most likely Dave started hinting heavily he wanted Amber gone as soon as they got home from the Decision Day taping.

Let's imagine the ways he started acting...disinterested in sexy time, complaining about her stuff invading his space, Paisley's cat box, Amber not doing any chores, not paying her share of the food, he probably stopped cooking for her all together, not including her on the bro group family bbqs and making snide, cutting  comments since there was no audio guy or camera guy to catch them.

Patient, understanding on camera Dave became judgey, persnickety, pissed off and closed off Dave.

He was relieved she moved out because he wanted her out...he was done with her.

Dave came off as the bag of dicks we all knew he was...

OK. This. Seriously? All fiction and in your imagination. Unless you are Amber?

[StatisticalOutlier]

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

Very true.  That's why Tristan and Mia didn't work IMO.  He liked the way she looked and I think that's why he didn't kick her to the curb when he found out she was a stalker/thief.  In the end, Tristan realized that if you marry looks, looks will be all you get.  

So what are pretty women supposed to do?  Just remove themselves from the pool because that's all they have to offer? 

And I don't think Tristan ever said he was forgiving her because he liked the way she looked.  In fact, from what he did say, it sounds to me like he was more interested in carrying out God's will--this is the person God sent for him (inexplicably through some "experts" on a reality TV show), and he had an obligation to make it work.  In fact, I think Mia's religiosity played a big role in Tristan not kicking her to the curb, in that it made her seem even more like someone God would match him up with.  Not her looks.

 

2 hours ago, gonecrackers said:

Purely speculative comment, but, it seems like because some people are hateful racists everyone who expresses a color preference will be labeled as such, which doesn't seem fair.

In Tristan's case, we saw that one comment; as far as I know there was nothing else mentioned about it the rest of the time. It seems quite a jump to label him as the label itself could be quite offensive.

And what is Tristan, or anyone on this stupid show for that matter, supposed to do?  He's asked what he likes, in an attempt to match him with someone he'll be attracted to because they're getting married, not being roommates.  There's a look he likes, for whatever reason.  It's understandable to be bothered by his preference, but that's the bothered person's business, and to infer Tristan's motivation from one comment really isn't fair to him. 

I read a comment somewhere about how in his preference for lighter skin than his, he was rejecting his own mother.  Since we're talking about who he's sexually attracted to, I personally don't have a problem with a guy saying, "Not my mom."

And on the subject of looks, I swear I read here that Amber WAS a brunette during the casting process, and that the experts were surprised when she showed up a blonde.  If that's the case, you'd think it would be mentioned on the show itself, since her hair color was such a big plot point.  Furthermore, Amber wouldn't have known Dave prefers brunettes, but it seems a bit odd that she would do something that drastic after all the vetting was done--and could be the source of humor between them when they discuss his preference for brunettes--Dude, I WAS one until right before I met you.

[KateHearts]

On 10/24/2018 at 3:55 PM, Yeah No said:

 Amber did the right thing by moving out because she got her definitive answer on where he was coming from.  He really didn't care enough about her to beg her to come back.

Interesting, because many people here thought that Mia's moving out was the ultimate in manipulation, and that if someone wants to know whether the other person is invested, if they are really interested in making the relationship work, they discuss it directly rather than make that drastic move and say, as Mia said, "I wanted  you to tell me to come back."  I think that's juvenile - Amber or Mia could have said, "look, I sense you aren't interested in working on this relationship and you need to let me know because otherwise, I'll pack my stuff now and get out."  You don't make a move like that to try and finagle a particular response.

[gonecrackers]

1 minute ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

And on the subject of looks, I swear I read here that Amber WAS a brunette during the casting process, and that the experts were surprised when she showed up a blonde.  If that's the case, you'd think it would be mentioned on the show itself, since her hair color was such a big plot point.  Furthermore, Amber wouldn't have known Dave prefers brunettes, but it seems a bit odd that she would do something that drastic after all the vetting was done--and could be the source of humor between them when they discuss his preference for brunettes--Dude, I WAS one until right before I met you.

I think it was Pepper who mentioned Amber having been a brunette during the selection process. However, when she (or whoever it was) went to see Amber to check out her home, I'm pretty sure she was already blonde. I don't remember ever seeing a brunette Amber until this episode.

Honestly I've always sensed some sort of shenanigans happened there.

4 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

And I don't think Tristan ever said he was forgiving her because he liked the way she looked.  In fact, from what he did say, it sounds to me like he was more interested in carrying out God's will--this is the person God sent for him (inexplicably through some "experts" on a reality TV show), and he had an obligation to make it work.  In fact, I think Mia's religiosity played a big role in Tristan not kicking her to the curb, in that it made her seem even more like someone God would match him up with.  Not her looks

I believe so as well; either that or he was getting something else out of the deal.