S07.E17: I Still Do?

[humbleopinion]

All posts are figments of imagination.

Isn’t that what this forum is for?

Edited October 25, 2018 by humbleopinion

[LennieBriscoe]

Neurochick,  We saw Amber ONLY with Dave.  Hence,  we saw her insecure ONLY with Dave. Maybe she was too independent for Other Gym Guy; we don't know. 

I submit that being less than highly regarded, by his admitted rating, by one's husband, can do a job on a woman's self-esteem. Never mind that Amber had to live with this insult on television. 

The entire topic of "colorist" as used with MAFS bugs me,  so I'm going to go partake of an earlier usage, with my "stress-reducing" adult coloring books! ? 

Edited October 25, 2018 by LennieBriscoe

[Mercolleen]

I listened to an episode of the Every Little Thing podcast last night about a horrible noise in reality TV shows. I had never noticed it before, but the show just played it when Tristan walked out to confront Mia! 

https://www.gimletmedia.com/every-little-thing/why-one-horrible-sound-haunts-reality-tv-plus-is-that-bug-threatening-me#episode-player

ETA: They just played it much louder after they said they were divorced!

Edited October 25, 2018 by Mercolleen

[aphroditewitch]

5 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

So what are pretty women supposed to do?  Just remove themselves from the pool because that's all they have to offer? 

 

Who said that looks are all pretty women have to offer? That is all Mia seemed to have because she lied so much about stalking her ex. 

[StatisticalOutlier]

13 minutes ago, aphroditewitch said:

Who said that looks are all pretty women have to offer? That is all Mia seemed to have because she lied so much about stalking her ex. 

I was addressing this statement:  "In the end, Tristan realized that if you marry looks, looks will be all you get."

[aphroditewitch]

20 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

I was addressing this statement:  "In the end, Tristan realized that if you marry looks, looks will be all you get."

I think they meant that Tristan doesn't see interested in anything but looks. He cared about looks and looks that he deemed acceptable are what he got. He had no interest in anything beyond the physical appearance . If he had been interested in good character and intelligence, perhaps he would have gotten someone like that. 

[Yeah No]

17 hours ago, Sterling said:

The problem with this concept is that there are just so many broken people out there, and even the most revered expert in the world can't fix a lifetime of self-esteem issues, or daddy didn't love mommy enough, or whatever, by simply matching them up with someone who is equally broken.

Everyone has childhood stuff that gets carried into adulthood.  Everyone.  It would take years of therapy to undo whatever damage Mia is acting out, for example.

So simply fixing them up on a date, which happens to also be a marriage, is the wrong concept.

Anyone can be "ready" for marriage because they want it.  That doesn't mean they are really "ready".  They are only ready when they can truly treat the marriage, and the partner, as a completely clean slate from their own past demons.  Most of these people are simply not there.

When I studied counseling years ago I read that it's not that people need to fix themselves before they can be successful in a relationship, but they do have to pick someone whose issues complement theirs, not clash with them.  We have talked to death about how Dave's cold, detached, critical manner does not complement Amber but brings out the worst in her.  We all have insecurities that can be magnified beyond our normal state by the wrong kind of person.....for us.  Being with a person that complements our issues is the only time we can be pretty sure the relationship won't bring out past demons, at least not most of the time.  And when it does happen, being self-aware and LOVING each other goes a long way toward overcoming that.  Dave just did not feel it for Amber (I kind of question his general ability to feel for a woman but I digress).  And I say that as someone that's been married to the same guy for a long time.

The "experts" on this show are woefully deficient in being able to spot people whose issues complement each other.  They seem to more often practice the opposite of that, throwing together people that are diametrically opposed in terms of temperament and other factors, naively thinking that they will "balance each other out".  Notice that they didn't do this with Danielle and Bobby and voila, they were a match!

Edited October 26, 2018 by Yeah No

[Yeah No]

15 hours ago, gonecrackers said:

Amber has been labeled insecure & it's been drilled into us because she was open about her feelings - consequently her makeup, skin care routine, hair dye, etc, all came into question as being part of her insecurities. I can understand her comments & reactions, but not every woman who wears makeup & has a skin care routine is woefully insecure. If that's the case I see Danielle as much more insecure than Amber, who we saw in interviews several times with hardly any makeup. Danielle is so self-protective she came off emotionally constipated & wears a TON of eye makeup that looks ridiculous (unless a professional dials it down 12 notches for her). Fine if you want to have tatted brows or eyelash extensions, but she wears too much makeup on top of that, which is not supposed to be necessary. If anyone slathered the makeup on it was Danielle, but she's come across as confident & self assured to some. 

I agree with you about Danielle being more insecure than Amber and that Amber seemed more insecure because she put her feelings out there for all to see.  It's sad that the "healthy" thing to do is often seen as just the opposite.  Being an expressive Italian I have suffered from that kind of criticism all my life.  My mother told me I should be more "stumaguzz", which is an alliteration of an Italian slang word which literally means "tight stomached".  What it refers to is a person that doesn't wear their heart or any of their emotions on their sleeve.  Danielle is an extreme example of that and so of course most people don't notice the insecurity.

I actually think that all of Bobby's affection was making Danielle even more insecure because she deep down didn't feel she deserved his OTT displays.  I could see it on her face even though she was trying to hide it.  She was thinking, "Hold on, partner, you just met me and you're over the moon about me in like 5 minutes?  What if I somehow disappoint you?"  Her ability to hold that all inside actually helped her because she didn't act on the insecurity, which allowed Bobby to fall in love with her all the more.

Do I think if Amber had adopted that strategy that she would have had a chance with Dave?  Eh, I actually think she knew she didn't and that's one reason she "let it all hang out" so to speak.  

Edited October 26, 2018 by Yeah No

[Jeanne222]

Maybe just maybe Amber needs a Bobby!  Somebody that would treat her like she's his everything!  He'd never give gym guy a thought!  He'd be too busy making sure Amber was happy!

Dave thought he was all that!  A cold duck who loved watching Amber squirm.  I'll never forget his satisfied grin when once again he'd gotcha!

I hope Amber marries gym guy and they work out together forever for Dave to see what he missed out on!

[Kdawg82]

3 hours ago, Yeah No said:

When I studied counseling years ago I read that it's not that people need to fix themselves before they can be successful in a relationship, but they do have to pick someone whose issues complement theirs, not clash with them.  We have talked to death about how Dave's cold, detached, critical manner does not complement Amber but brings out the worst in her.  We all have insecurities that can be magnified beyond our normal state by the wrong kind of person.....for us.  Being with a person that complements our issues is the only time we can be pretty sure the relationship won't bring out past demons, at least not most of the time

ITA! I had a lot of issues haunting me when I met my husband. I'm stable with good morals & values but was raised to believe horrible things about myself & have been insecure always. My husband couldn't believe some of the things I told him until he saw first hand. His family is polar opposite from mine. His tender ways are what healed me, over time. He gets me. No one would've had the love or patience to deal with my family & my own resulting issues. Here we are many years later & thank God doing great with & for each other.  Glad he didn't walk away the first month or so & got to see me for who I REALLY am.

[Jeanne222]

The same with my husband.  He never eats a meal without telling me how good it is.  He compliments my bad haircuts and makes me feel special every single day.

Is he perfect?  No.  But his kindness and goodness always prevail.

Our daughter is finally leaving a verbally abusive husband after many years.  She is like a flower opening up in the sunshine after so many years of sitting in the shade!

[Yeah No]

My husband is like that too.  Tells me I'm beautiful even when I'm fat.  Encourages me when I'm down and being a pessimist.  Still brings me flowers after all these decades.  He too is good and kind with good moral values.  I could never feel insecure with him.  In his own way he is my very own "Bobby".  In fact sometimes over this season I wondered what it would have been like if we met on this show.  Magic!  Apologies to all those who were not as fortunate.....Rest assured that neither of us is perfect and that eventually we did have an argument, although not until a couple of years into our relationship and after we were already married.  It was rough at first, but we survived it and the many others that were to come.  I'm sure Danielle and Bobby will eventually have an argument but I'm sure they will survive it and strengthen their relationship.

[endure]

I was so relieved it was Danielle and Bobby who was pg and not Amber and Dave.

[crazychicken]

Kdawg82 Jeanne222 I am sorry for what you have been through and am glad that you have found supportive partners that have helped you heal.

 

On the flip side my husband is the more emotionally expressive (hello big loud greek family) and also has scars from growing up with a mother with a mental illness. I think sometimes we forget that while the the less expressive partner is not as verbal about their needs that always being the support takes its toll as well, as a cerebral thinker we want to fix things and it can be frustrating when we can not especially when the solution seems obvious. It took time for me to understand that my husband didn't need me to fix the situation I just needed to listen and validate his feelings, there are still times when I get frustrated that the same problem crops up over and over but it is not up to me to repair it and that it is ok for me to take a step back when it is affecting my mental health. A few years ago I got sick and I did not have the emotional reserves to take on anybody elses problems including my husbands I could barely deal with my own so I set boundaries and he needed to find another suport person, it was the best thing for me at the time but I felt so guilty that I sought counseling afterwards and it was a relief when she explained to me about compassion fatigue and that if I needed to put boundaries in place for myself that it was ok because you can not help somebody else when you yourself are struggling.  Being married to an emotional thinker when you are cerebral can take a toll while people think you do not care it is normally the reverse you are so busy taking on other peoples problems that you can put your own emotional needs on the backburner.

 

BTW none of that is aimed at anybody that is an emotional thinker it is just the other prospective.

[KateHearts]

9 hours ago, aphroditewitch said:

I think they meant that Tristan doesn't see interested in anything but looks. He cared about looks and looks that he deemed acceptable are what he got. He had no interest in anything beyond the physical appearance . If he had been interested in good character and intelligence, perhaps he would have gotten someone like that. 

Well, I doubt someone would specify that they wanted good character or intelligence, right?  I imagine certain traits are generally assumed (not a murderer, wants to get married, decent human being.)If they got *that* deep into it in the interview process, they'd never get through the thousands of applicants.  So they probably ask, "what type of man/woman is attractive to you?" (fair, tall, athletic, etc) and they do get into some value questions such as, is family important, do you want children, etc.  To be fair, another quality that Tristan did say was important was faith (which a lot of people here threw back at him, as in "he's so sure God picked Mia that he'll stay with a criminal."

Just because the looks comment was the one that was aired doesn't mean that Tristan is a shallow dolt who only looks at skin color and how the woman fills out a dress.  I'm not saying I like him, though, or how he handled the entire marriage.

[KateHearts]

6 hours ago, Yeah No said:

The "experts" on this show are woefully deficient in being able to spot people whose issues complement each other.  They seem to more often practice the opposite of that, throwing together people that are diametrically opposed in terms of temperament and other factors, naively thinking that they will "balance each other out".  Notice that they didn't do this with Danielle and Bobby and voila, they were a match!

To the credit of the "experts," they really are given a snapshot of each contestant, who is of course on his/her best behavior.  If I knew Dr. Pepper was coming to rummage through my underwear drawer or snoop in my refrigerator, I might toss the holy ones or dump out the food that's sat there a little too long.  So they match Dave and Amber, both who say they are adventurous, go to the gym a lot, want families, and are independent and successful in their careers. I am sure that Amber didn't reveal to them that she can be massively insecure, and spends thousands to make herself look like she is never (hopefully) going to age... and Dave didn't say, "yeah, I'm anal, I hate cats and I shut down when a woman tries to discuss a relationship."

Similarly, they matched Tristan and Mia because, at interview time, they both seemed family-oriented, and their faith was very important to them. Then oopsie, Mia turned out to have a shady criminal past, and despite his wide smile, Tristan became the guy who was very inept at dealing with conflict and stress.

I get annoyed when these couples say, "oh, we've been through more than most couples have in a lifetime. We've had so many ups and downs! We can weather anything!!"  Give it some time, guys.  Wait till one of you gets the flu, gives it to the other, your power goes out for a week, you have a kid who won't sleep through the night, a parent dies, there's a family rift, your car breaks down, etc.  That's when you start seeing the strength of your marriage, not how you deal with learning that your shiny new spouse is a slob or that her pet poops on the floor.

[Starlight925]

7 hours ago, Yeah No said:

When I studied counseling years ago I read that it's not that people need to fix themselves before they can be successful in a relationship, but they do have to pick someone whose issues complement theirs, not clash with them.  We have talked to death about how Dave's cold, detached, critical manner does not complement Amber but brings out the worst in her.  We all have insecurities that can be magnified beyond our normal state by the wrong kind of person.....for us.  Being with a person that complements our issues is the only time we can be pretty sure the relationship won't bring out past demons, at least not most of the time.  And when it does happen, being self-aware and LOVING each other goes a long way toward overcoming that.  Dave just did not feel it for Amber (I kind of question his general ability to feel for a woman but I digress).  And I say that as someone that's been married to the same guy for a long time.

The "experts" on this show are woefully deficient in being able to spot people whose issues complement each other.  They seem to more often practice the opposite of that, throwing together people that are diametrically opposed in terms of temperament and other factors, naively thinking that they will "balance each other out".  Notice that they didn't do this with Danielle and Bobby and voila, they were a match!

 

Great feedback, and this makes so much sense.  Thank you for quoting me, and correcting what I said.  This makes more sense than what I was saying, and it's all so applicable here.

To your point:  my mom & dad just celebrated 63 years of marriage this week!  They both have childhood issues, and absolutely exemplify your theory:  

My dad was abandoned by his father and "raised" by his mentally unstable mother, and my mother was raised by a very gentle father and an overbearing, domineering mother.  

63 years and 3 kids and several grandkids later:  My dad became this generous, loving, doing-type husband, and my mother, while domineering and stubborn, has "allowed" him to be there for her in every way possible, while what he gets out of it is her loyalty, her sense of humor, her true love for him.

They still hold hands, they are still affectionate, they still sit close to one another.

So yes, if the "experts" could figure out what issues each has, and choose partners to help balance, they'd have more long-term success.

Jamie & Doug actually work in this manner:  As much as I find her nails-on-a-chalkboard, she grew up horribly, while Doug has this super close family, so these opposites have worked to balance out one another.

I'm loving learning all of this.

Edited October 26, 2018 by Sterling

[crazychicken]

40 minutes ago, KateHearts said:

To the credit of the "experts," they really are given a snapshot of each contestant, who is of course on his/her best behavior.  If I knew Dr. Pepper was coming to rummage through my underwear drawer or snoop in my refrigerator, I might toss the holy ones or dump out the food that's sat there a little too long.  So they match Dave and Amber, both who say they are adventurous, go to the gym a lot, want families, and are independent and successful in their careers. I am sure that Amber didn't reveal to them that she can be massively insecure, and spends thousands to make herself look like she is never (hopefully) going to age... and Dave didn't say, "yeah, I'm anal, I hate cats and I shut down when a woman tries to discuss a relationship."

Similarly, they matched Tristan and Mia because, at interview time, they both seemed family-oriented, and their faith was very important to them. Then oopsie, Mia turned out to have a shady criminal past, and despite his wide smile, Tristan became the guy who was very inept at dealing with conflict and stress.

I get annoyed when these couples say, "oh, we've been through more than most couples have in a lifetime. We've had so many ups and downs! We can weather anything!!"  Give it some time, guys.  Wait till one of you gets the flu, gives it to the other, your power goes out for a week, you have a kid who won't sleep through the night, a parent dies, there's a family rift, your car breaks down, etc.  That's when you start seeing the strength of your marriage, not how you deal with learning that your shiny new spouse is a slob or that her pet poops on the floor.

I am not sure she disclosed the full extent but one of the cons that was mentioned in the matching process was that Amber's insecurity could be a problem in building the relationship but then in their expert wisdom they decided that since Dave is a protector he would be able to fix her insecurities. Yep once again they matched a couple expecting that one person could fix the other which is incredibly stupid maybe in a dating relationship where they had time to learn how each of the reacts to stress, how they communicate and what they need but to throw people into a really intense situation for 8 weeks and expecting it to all be rainbows and lollipops is crazy. My husband and I were discussing this and we are pretty much 100% that if this is how we met we would have imploded and split at decision day just due to the stress of the experiment.

 

Bobby & Danielle I think they kept asking the wrong question while they may not have fought I am sure that they disagreed but they had the communication skills to sort thing out without fighting.

[Kdawg82]

Bobby seems quite flexible and accommodating. I think what many of you feel is that he could've made it work with any number of applicants- the average not "with warrant out for arrest" ones, that is. I'm sure Danielle is lovely...j/s. Tristan could've been paired with any number of those thousands, as well. I saw a shot at the opening "recap" premise of the show they bore us with every episode and where Mia was seated, there were BEAUTIFUL women surrounding her- all fitting his colorist description but WITH a neck , WITHOUT a hunch back, and I'm sure other areas of inner and outer beauty.

[Yeah No]

25 minutes ago, crazychicken said:

I am not sure she disclosed the full extent but one of the cons that was mentioned in the matching process was that Amber's insecurity could be a problem in building the relationship but then in their expert wisdom they decided that since Dave is a protector he would be able to fix her insecurities. Yep once again they matched a couple expecting that one person could fix the other which is incredibly stupid maybe in a dating relationship where they had time to learn how each of the reacts to stress, how they communicate and what they need but to throw people into a really intense situation for 8 weeks and expecting it to all be rainbows and lollipops is crazy. My husband and I were discussing this and we are pretty much 100% that if this is how we met we would have imploded and split at decision day just due to the stress of the experiment.

I could take one look at Dave and know that he's no "protector".  A protector is someone that does not have a cold, detached and cerebral temperament.  Geesh, these people need to study personality theory, or better yet, be clued into people and their tendencies.  These experts show me that they go on what I would call "surface" traits, not what's going on twelve layers below that.  Then again none of them strikes me as being that intuitive about such things.

1 hour ago, KateHearts said:

To the credit of the "experts," they really are given a snapshot of each contestant, who is of course on his/her best behavior.  If I knew Dr. Pepper was coming to rummage through my underwear drawer or snoop in my refrigerator, I might toss the holy ones or dump out the food that's sat there a little too long.  So they match Dave and Amber, both who say they are adventurous, go to the gym a lot, want families, and are independent and successful in their careers. I am sure that Amber didn't reveal to them that she can be massively insecure, and spends thousands to make herself look like she is never (hopefully) going to age... and Dave didn't say, "yeah, I'm anal, I hate cats and I shut down when a woman tries to discuss a relationship."

Similarly, they matched Tristan and Mia because, at interview time, they both seemed family-oriented, and their faith was very important to them. Then oopsie, Mia turned out to have a shady criminal past, and despite his wide smile, Tristan became the guy who was very inept at dealing with conflict and stress.

See above - "surface traits" are not what makes great matches unless they just happen to hit the lottery like with Danielle and Bobby.  A lot of men like the things I like and do the things I do and even have similar values yet most of them would not be a good match for me.  It goes much deeper than that, but these people don't have that ability.  It also includes temperament.

[Jax7917]

11 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

I could take one look at Dave and know that he's no "protector".  A protector is someone that does not have a cold, detached and cerebral temperament.  Geesh, these people need to study personality theory, or better yet, be clued into people and their tendencies.  These experts show me that they go on what I would call "surface" traits, not what's going on twelve layers below that.  Then again none of them strikes me as being that intuitive about such things.

See above - "surface traits" are not what makes great matches unless they just happen to hit the lottery like with Danielle and Bobby.  A lot of men like the things I like and do the things I do and even have similar values yet most of them would not be a good match for me.  It goes much deeper than that, but these people don't have that ability.  It also includes temperament.

That's true. But I also don't think they sincerely match people because they are good matches. At the end of the day, it's a tv show and their first priority is the drama and entertainment. All of these experts are quacks. No one in their right mind would think that having the guys rate their spouses would be a good idea. They do it to create drama.

[Crazy Bird Lady]

On 10/24/2018 at 10:22 PM, OnTime said:

I'm wondering the same things! 

As Gym Guy clearly talked with Dave about Amber, I'm sure Dave would have asked what does she look like or to see a picture of her.

I also think there had to be a time when Gym Guy, Dave and Amber were all at the gym at the same time.  Gym Guy wouldn't have had to introduce them, but he would have pointed Amber out to Dave.

Something doesn't add up!

Amber did look a lot different as a blonde, than she does with her natural brunette hair. 

Maybe she didn't want to be instantly recognized as "that woman at the gym"?

Edited October 26, 2018 by Crazy Bird Lady

[Yeah No]

13 minutes ago, Jaclyn88 said:

That's true. But I also don't think they sincerely match people because they are good matches. At the end of the day, it's a tv show and their first priority is the drama and entertainment. All of these experts are quacks. No one in their right mind would think that having the guys rate their spouses would be a good idea. They do it to create drama.

I agree with you 100%!!

9 minutes ago, Crazy Bird Lady said:

Amber did look a lot different as a blonde, than she does with her natural brunette hair. 

Maybe she didn't want to be instantly recognized as "that woman at the gym"?

She actually didn't have the blonde hair for all that long as far as we have heard, so I don't know about that.

[Neurochick]

18 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

So what are pretty women supposed to do?  Just remove themselves from the pool because that's all they have to offer? 

No.  Just because you're pretty doesn't mean that's ALL you have to offer.  

However, if you marry for JUST looks, guess what, JUST looks will be all you get, because you're not looking for anything except looks.

[Neurochick]

8 hours ago, Yeah No said:

The "experts" on this show are woefully deficient in being able to spot people whose issues complement each other.  They seem to more often practice the opposite of that, throwing together people that are diametrically opposed in terms of temperament and other factors, naively thinking that they will "balance each other out".  Notice that they didn't do this with Danielle and Bobby and voila, they were a match!

But the problem with that is, when it's the people themselves who are ignorant of their own issues.  We also don't know how long the "experts" meet with the participants and the questions they are asked.  

[Crazy Bird Lady]

2 hours ago, Yeah No said:

She actually didn't have the blonde hair for all that long as far as we have heard, so I don't know about that.

Amber did have blonde hair throughout the 8 weeks of their experimental "marriage," though. (But she might have gone brunette again the same day she moved out of Dave's apartment.)

I find it weird that Amber was "open" about so many things I would have kept to myself and never discussed on camera -- her insecurities, her elaborate 'beauty' regimen, etc. etc... Yet she steadfastly refused to say *anything* about that guy at the gym and/or what he may have told Dave about her, and she steadfastly refused to consider going back to brunette. 

"That guy at the gym" was never discussed much on camera at all until 3 months later, after they were already separated, on the final show "I Still Do?"

Coincidence??

Edited October 26, 2018 by Crazy Bird Lady

[Yeah No]

16 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

No.  Just because you're pretty doesn't mean that's ALL you have to offer.  

However, if you marry for JUST looks, guess what, JUST looks will be all you get, because you're not looking for anything except looks.

I agree that looks are not all a pretty person has to offer, but you will only get the looks you want from them if that's all you're concerned with.  Their personality may not also be a match.

9 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

But the problem with that is, when it's the people themselves who are ignorant of their own issues.  We also don't know how long the "experts" meet with the participants and the questions they are asked.  

Well that's the thing, it shouldn't be based only on the self-reporting of the candidates either because no one is 100% self aware.  That's why the experts involved need to be good at reading people.

4 minutes ago, Crazy Bird Lady said:

Amber did have blonde hair throughout the 8 weeks of their experimental "marriage," though. (But she might have gone brunette again the same day she moved out of Dave's apartment.)

 

Yeah but most people from her gym would have known her better with the darker hair so I dunno if she would have thought hair color could make any difference.

Edited October 26, 2018 by Yeah No
Punctuation, ugh.

[Crazy Bird Lady]

1 hour ago, Yeah No said:

Yeah but most people from her gym would have known her [Amber] better with the darker hair so I dunno.

My point is, Dave didn't know that she was "that woman from the gym" until they were on their honeymoon and he made the connection. And when he made that connection, Dave told Amber (on camera) that he probably wouldn't have married her if he'd known she was that woman from the gym. So I think the blonde hair must have worked well enough as a disguise for the first couple of days --and then after Dave responded to the gym guy info the way he did, Amber may not have wanted to change her hair color because she didn't want Dave to be constantly reminded of "that guy at the gym". (Or maybe she did it passive-aggressively, just to spite him.)

Nothing Amber did helped, of course.

Edited October 26, 2018 by Crazy Bird Lady

[Kdawg82]

14 minutes ago, Crazy Bird Lady said:

That guy at the gym" was never discussed much on camera at all until 3 months later, after they were already separated.

Coincidence??

If what I think you are saying is that Amber went "incognito" at the gym by going blonde, why then was she the one who refused to change gyms. Very weird she wouldn't want to change gyms once married. I am happy I moved out of state so I never have to awkwardly run into anyone I've- errmmmm- "dated" before my husband . Not saying it's WHY I moved but it sure makes me more comfortable . I don't buy the gym storyline for Dave now being the unsecure one about that. For him to have any jealousy or paranoia , he actually has to LIKE and RESPECT Amber. He sure had no issues being sexual with her afterwards so it shows me she was a piece of meat to him but not serious.  If it was serious , we would've heard about his jealousy about the gym guy a liiiiiittle more. As I said , I think he would get over it for the right girl but he would show some jealousy on cam.

[Crazy Bird Lady]

1 hour ago, Kdawg82 said:

If what I think you are saying is that Amber went "incognito" at the gym by going blonde, why then was she the one who refused to change gyms. Very weird she wouldn't want to change gyms once married. I don't buy the gym storyline for Dave now being the unsecure one about that. For him to have any jealousy or paranoia , he actually has to LIKE and RESPECT Amber. He sure had no issues being sexual with her afterwards so it shows me she was a piece of meat to him but not serious.  If it was serious, we would've heard about his jealousy about the gym guy a liiiiiittle more. As I said , I think he would get over it for the right girl but he would show some jealousy on cam.

I agree that if Dave had ever really seriously considered Amber his wife for the long term, he would have acted more jealous.

And I thought it was bizarre when I first heard Amber was the one who refused to change gyms! I think Amber probably didn't want Dave to "sacrifice time with his gym friends" just because Amber was uncomfortable (which is something Dave would have silently held against Amber forever afterward --but Amber didn't know that about him yet)!

When she chose not to change gyms, it made Amber the "bigger person" who put Dave's friendships above any possible discomfort she might endure with "gym guy" around. And at the same time, it implied she wasn't that worried about whatever the jerk had said about her.  

Edited October 26, 2018 by Crazy Bird Lady

[Starlight925]

Am I the only one who didn't like Amber's new (original) brunette hair?

It looked too dull.  Perhaps too damaged from all the blonde.

Also, the styling was way off.  Too pushed over to one side.  Too flat.

Too "Seinfeld low-flow-showerhead".

[princelina]

On 10/25/2018 at 11:58 AM, gonecrackers said:

Amber has been labeled insecure & it's been drilled into us because she was open about her feelings - consequently her makeup, skin care routine, hair dye, etc, all came into question as being part of her insecurities. I can understand her comments & reactions, but not every woman who wears makeup & has a skin care routine is woefully insecure. If that's the case I see Danielle as much more insecure than Amber, who we saw in interviews several times with hardly any makeup. Danielle is so self-protective she came off emotionally constipated & wears a TON of eye makeup that looks ridiculous (unless a professional dials it down 12 notches for her). Fine if you want to have tatted brows or eyelash extensions, but she wears too much makeup on top of that, which is not supposed to be necessary. If anyone slathered the makeup on it was Danielle, but she's come across as confident & self assured to some. 

Some women just wear too much makeup.  In Amber's case, she spent a fortune to be overdone and not even look that good.  If you work out and eat right it's hard to mess up a body, but the hair was like that of a 1970's baby doll, fingernails as thick as toenails, and no actual skin care "regime", just a ton of products for every skin issue under the sun.  The result = nothing (except the body) looks good, but it was like her armor.

 

20 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

Dave rated Amber a mediocre "but honest" 7.5/10, when she knew Tristan had rated Misdemeanor Mia an 8;

and finally, though he was willing to have innumerable sex sessions with her,  God forbid that Amber had the temerity to repeat a question to "BT,  DT" Dave. 

I suspect that, had Dave been a Ricky Bobby about,  to,  and for her,  Amber might have rated a "10" in self-confidence.

Actually, I believe "Pastor" Cal asked them to rate how they felt the marriages were going, to which Dave gave a 7.5.  Then when he got home and told Amber, she said,"So what did you give me?" and then it got all turned around into how SHE was rated a 7.5.  But Dave had originally been rating a 3-4 week old marriage (to a STRANGER!!!) which is why he felt he gave a reasonable and uninsulting response.  IMO if she had a Bobby it would have been, "You didn't put much mayonnaise on my sandwich, do you think I'm fat?"  She needs a guy who is okay constantly answering that kind of thing. 

[KateHearts]

27 minutes ago, Crazy Bird Lady said:

And I thought it was bizarre when I first heard Amber was the one who refused to change gyms! 

I'm not sure why she should be obligated to change gyms because, as an adult, she dated someone from their mutual gym.  To me, that's an unspoken admission she has something to be ashamed about.  I think it would make her look worse.  People pick gyms for location, amenities, etc.  Why should she go somewhere else because Dave knows a guy there she dated/slept with/whatever?

[StatisticalOutlier]

46 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

No.  Just because you're pretty doesn't mean that's ALL you have to offer.  

However, if you marry for JUST looks, guess what, JUST looks will be all you get, because you're not looking for anything except looks.

I don't think you can say Tristan married just for looks because he was going to get married no matter who they matched him up with.  Now, he might have been pleased with the looks of the person they found for him (personally, I don't find her attractive), but any intentionality he might have about marrying just for looks was not involved--he married someone he'd never even seen.  And even then, as I said, it sounded to me that Mia's faith played more of a role in being the glue that bound him to her than her looks.

In fact, really, all I remember about him talking about looks was that he preferred someone with lighter skin than his, and not much about Mia's actual looks. 

 

4 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Rest assured that neither of us is perfect and that eventually we did have an argument, although not until a couple of years into our relationship and after we were already married.  It was rough at first, but we survived it and the many others that were to come.  I'm sure Danielle and Bobby will eventually have an argument but I'm sure they will survive it and strengthen their relationship.

I'm glad you mentioned the not arguing because it was years before Mr. Outlier and I had an argument.  We're just very compatible and share the same values straight down the line on the things that we think are important in a relationship (similar views on politics, drinking, money, procreating, coffee).  Granted, we didn't get married on the day we met (and actually still haven't married, 20 years later), but it grated that such a big deal was made of Bobby and Danielle not arguing in the 8 weeks they were together.  Or even earlier than they--they started remarking on it almost from the beginning.  (But this is my first season--do the couples normally fight that early?)

Now that I think about it, I wouldn't be surprised if Danielle got pregnant so quickly just because she knows babies tear at even the best marriages, just to shut up the "y'all never argue!" people.  You want an argument?  I'll give you an argument, and it'll be with no sleep for either of us.

[Crazy Bird Lady]

4 hours ago, KateHearts said:

I'm not sure why she [Amber] should be obligated to change gyms because, as an adult, she dated someone from their mutual gym.  To me, that's an unspoken admission she has something to be ashamed about.  I think it would make her look worse.  People pick gyms for location, amenities, etc. 

Why should she go somewhere else because Dave knows a guy there she dated/slept with/whatever?

I totally agree! 

In fact, if you read a couple of sentences after the one you quoted, I noted that it made sense Amber would choose not to change gyms because that would have displeased Dave and made it seem like she was really ashamed of the gym guy thing. 

Amber was, after all, legally married to Dave, the guy with the "hall of bros" --and she cared about Dave being happy with her. No doubt, some of Dave's favorite "bros" belong to that gym (and the fact that the "bro wives" were discussing "gym guy" among themselves at that barbeque pretty much established that). 

That was at least a week or two before Amber knew Dave well enough to realize he would continue to silently "judge" her for anything she did that he didn't like, and resent anything he ever "had to do" to pacify her.

Edited October 26, 2018 by Crazy Bird Lady

[gonecrackers]

2 hours ago, princelina said:

Some women just wear too much makeup.  In Amber's case, she spent a fortune to be overdone and not even look that good.  If you work out and eat right it's hard to mess up a body, but the hair was like that of a 1970's baby doll, fingernails as thick as toenails, and no actual skin care "regime", just a ton of products for every skin issue under the sun.  The result = nothing (except the body) looks good, but it was like her armor.

The whole skin product crap scene was brought to us by production to push the 'Amber's very insecure' narrative. People can have skin care products & routines without being insecure, & in fact it can be a sign of self care, particularly if she has skin issues (we don't know what it was like prior or without care) so I felt that scene was just stupid.

Personally I felt Amber's makeup wasn't nearly as bad as Danielle's overdone eyes which were freaky at times. She, if anyone, hides behind an 'armor' of makeup. Bobby loves her eyes but as I've said a few times already he has no idea what they really look like.

I do think Amber could do much better with her hair, both color & cut, so whatever she's spending there could be put to better use.

2 hours ago, Crazy Bird Lady said:

When she chose not to change gyms, it made Amber the "bigger person" who put Dave's friendships above any possible discomfort she might endure with "gym guy" around. And at the same time, it implied she wasn't that worried about whatever the jerk had said about her.  

This is a good point; she wasn't embarrassed about anything. She was just being honest with him, & didn't even let it drag on but told him right away on the honeymoon when they compared notes on gym people.  My inclination is to believe Dave just didn't want a wife someone he knew slept with, or, that the guy is an ass hole who talked crap about her, which again, says more about him than Amber.

 

Regarding Bobby & Danielle not arguing - I don't think they've actually said there's been no issues; we've seen them discuss things & even not be on the same page. They made a point of saying they both default to communicating, which would itself help deflect conflict & arguments. I'm sure at some point they've either disagreed about something or, they definitely will, so if they just keep communicating they will naturally be less likely to argue.

[endure]

On 2018-10-24 at 9:56 AM, SnarkEnthusiast said:

Exactly! They're both very high school in totally different ways. At the end of the day, they're both at fault because they chose to fixate on ridiculous things. Amber's insecurity about hair colors and Dave wanting to date other women solely based on hair color and spinning out over the inane rating exercise was frivolous and incredibly juvenile. She constantly shot herself in the foot in my opinion because whenever Dave would start actually like her and think that they had a future, she would latch on to something stupid and turn the next 12 hours into a fight because Dave said thank you to the brunette grocery store cashier or whatever. With that said, Dave had huge issues with immaturity too. As you said, they're 35, not high school sweethearts. It's not like Dave or the gym dude for that matter took Amber's virginity. I'm guessing his body count is well beyond single digits at this point. What kind of misogynistic locker room talk happened at that gym where Dave would've been put off the prospect of even getting to know Amber had he known? What kind of dick measuring contest is this? He might as well have just peed all over her to save himself some time. He just got to frame himself as the rational, levelheaded one because his issues were ones about Manliness and Bro Ethics, whereas Amber's could be easily brushed aside as hysterics about femininity and imagined rivalry with other women. Hey Dave, wasn't your main bone of contention sticking your bone when your gym buddy's had been? it's the same paranoia and insecurity but Amber got all the bad rap in my opinion. It reminds me of my junior year of high school where a girl was dating a boy who was absolutely infatuated with her. She started hanging out with his social group and soon dumped him for his friend, who she dated for years afterwards and ultimately wound up marrying. I think they eventually got over it, but the rest of that year was… awkward between them to say the least. At least we were actually 16 and not halfway to 40.

My sentiments exactly about David and Amber and also about Tristan and Mia too - they are all very immature and I actually wonder if any of them are even ready to be in any relationship.  

[endure]

On 2018-10-24 at 3:53 PM, Jeanne222 said:

Danielle and Bobby.  What a sweet couple.  He's in love but she always looks ready for flight but aside from that they surely seem happy with their lives.  Didn't she come into all this with a ton of debt?  I wonder if Bobby has taken care of that for her.  He's a keeper for sure and I'll bet he quits his job and become a stay at home dad and a good one at that.

Amber and Dave.  Sigh.  Amber is so needy and Dave loves seeing her squirm.  The sex must have been amazing for them to have stayed together this long with Gym guy always in the wings.  Why wouldn't he/she change gyms?  They kind of left that one up in the air.

Tristan and Mia.  That one should have ended at the airport when she was arrested and the only reason it didn't was because lots of time and money was invested in this program and 'the show must go on'.  They could not do 8 weeks with just two couples.  I look for them to start with four couples as a cushion.

Danielle entered the relationship with a 15,000 dollar credit card debt. Maybe that’s  why they are doing this next show.

Edited October 27, 2018 by endure
Changed Amber to Dannielle

[kira28]

On 10/24/2018 at 8:14 PM, princelina said:

Amber said Dave and the experts wanted them to but she refused.

Amber didn't change gyms because Amber has to have everything her way and refuses to accommodate anyone. She won't do laundry she agreed to do, she didn't want any new friends and she didn't want to work on her raging insecurities. And I say this as someone who likes Amber more than Dave. 

[Crazy Bird Lady]

47 minutes ago, endure said:

Amber entered the relationship with a 15,000 dollar credit card debt. Maybe that’s  why they are doing this next show.

That was Danielle.

[endure]

Thank you that’s what i meant to say!

Edited October 26, 2018 by endure

[UniqueHandle]

I was under the impression the the gym-bro was less of a "relationship" and more of a booty call/friends with benefits kind of thing. I was also under the impression that Amber was a brunette before Dave, a blonde with extensions with Dave and back to a brunette sans extensions after Dave. During her talking heads, she would say "blondes have more fun!" with such a nervous energy, it never sounded sincere. I always felt like she was covering something up. Perhaps it was her identity.  Perhaps Mia should have asked for notes when stalking her ex.

Dave and Amber were walking around a furniture store discussing the boys lunch when Dave brought up that he had to rate their marriage. Amber was exited to hear how he rated HER. He said  7.5. She said "YOU gave ME a 7.5???" He never fixed it. He cold have told her right then that he was giving their brand new marriage a 7.5, not HER a 7.5, but he didn't. He let her believe that he gave her a 7.5. Maybe, just maybe he didn't know she had once again twisted this conversation about the two of them into a pity party about herself, however, given that it was something she often did in their short time together, he should have stopped her right there and repeated himself. "I gave our marriage a 7.5, Amber."  I only watched approximately 32 minutes of Amber each week and she was exhausting. 

I think the reason Dave is not interested in going to therapy is because Dave has moved on. I am sure some brunette without as many issues and insecurities and gym-bro relations at his new gym has made him very happy. He had a glow about him at the reunion that he didn't have the whole entire time he was with Amber. 

Tristan's skin color remark annoyed me much less than him having his mom in his phone as "WOMAN". wtf

If Mia's mouth is open she is lying. She was terrible to Tristan and her family was terrible to Tristan. He is better off without her. And I am not even a Tristan fan. 

Bobby and Danielle. Love them. He is a young not-brooding-Christian Slater and she is his damsel not-in-distress with some crazy eyebrows.  

[ramble]

After starting the season feeling not so great about Ricky Bobby and Danielle they have ended up being my favorite since Anthony and Ashley. Who knew? Go little couple go! 

Mia... ugh. The less said the better. I got to the point that I just fast forwarded anything she said. I think she’s as manipulative as they come. I waffle on Tristan. He’s a bit of a doofus but he doesn’t seem all bad. 

Dave may be a jerk but I think anyone would be hard pressed to live with Amber’s insecurities. I also think, as many of us observed in the beginning, that the statement about once Dave knew Amber dated a friend of his it was already over was spot on. Her look of pure jealously when hearing about Henry’s brother or sister on the way was simultaneously heartbreaking and ridiculous. I know what it’s like to long for a child so I get that part. However she herself said the idea of the mess and stress of a baby overwhelmed her. I think she needs to consider an older adoption or decide to deal with the mess and stress and look into a sperm bank. 

[krbr51]

First, Mia sucks.  We pretty much all agree on that.  But Tristan.... HOW did the "experts" miss that how multiple businesses were failing?  Surely they look into these people's finances a little.  My opinion?  Tristan needed this marriage to keep himself financially afloat.  IE- the insurance debacle.  He needed her to take him on, so he could save money.  That's why he was so upset.  Mia moved into his place with the thought of renting hers...saving him $$.  Furthermore, the arrest gave him a little bit of power over her.  And he used it to "convince" her to move to Houston.  And somebody turn up the damn heat in his apartment.  It's hard to act like an adult when you're constantly swaddling yourself.  

I'm glad they aren't together, but Tristan is probably pissed he can't sponge off her Cobra benefits for the next 6 months or so.

As for Dave, I was over Dave a few episodes back.  Amber made a comment to him that "this was the most honest relationship she had ever been in.". Or something similar.  Dave's response.... "Wow.  That's really concerning.".

I get it, Amber has lots of insecurities, but Dave's (judgmental) comments like that are really cruel.  She was being completely open and vulnerable.  She meant it as a compliment to what they were building.  Let's be honest, most of us who are married would describe our marriage as our most honest relationship.  It's not unusual.  Dave used it in a way to point out what was "wrong" with her.  Even Dave said in the finale that he has really high standards for his wife.  Amber was picking up on that, either overtly or subtly, and it heightened her lack of confidence. Also, I'm convinced Dave has zero sense of humor.  

Did anyone else notice that we never saw Dave and Amber in bed at their place?  We saw them in bed when they traveled, but never at home.  Mia and Tristan never got up.  Danielle and Bobby had many "pillow talk" scenes.  I always wondered why for our most-active couple?!

And lastly, FWIW, Amber commented awhile back that she usually only went to one class at the gym.  The same class, multiple times a week.  And she went with her closest friends.  I was thinking she didn't want to change because she would have to give all that up.  But who knows?  Maybe gym guy was in the class with her!  

[humbleopinion]

You never saw them on camera in bed because Dave's bed is for sex. No pillow talk or chit chat....Cue  the Barry White....Ravel's Bolero

Edited October 27, 2018 by humbleopinion

[KateHearts]

13 hours ago, kira28 said:

Amber didn't change gyms because Amber has to have everything her way and refuses to accommodate anyone. She won't do laundry she agreed to do, she didn't want any new friends and she didn't want to work on her raging insecurities. And I say this as someone who likes Amber more than Dave. 

I don't consider her not changing gyms equivalent to refusing to split household chores or to get to know Dave's friends.  The "experts" suggested that because Dave couldn't handle that she dated someone at the gym that he knows.  For her to do that would paint her as a wrongdoer, and make her look like she had reason to feel ashamed.  

[Starlight925]

10 hours ago, krbr51 said:

First, Mia sucks.  We pretty much all agree on that.  But Tristan.... HOW did the "experts" miss that how multiple businesses were failing?  Surely they look into these people's finances a little.  My opinion?  Tristan needed this marriage to keep himself financially afloat.  IE- the insurance debacle.  He needed her to take him on, so he could save money.  That's why he was so upset.  Mia moved into his place with the thought of renting hers...saving him $$.  Furthermore, the arrest gave him a little bit of power over her.  And he used it to "convince" her to move to Houston.  And somebody turn up the damn heat in his apartment.  It's hard to act like an adult when you're constantly swaddling yourself.  

I'm glad they aren't together, but Tristan is probably pissed he can't sponge off her Cobra benefits for the next 6 months or so.

As for Dave, I was over Dave a few episodes back.  Amber made a comment to him that "this was the most honest relationship she had ever been in.". Or something similar.  Dave's response.... "Wow.  That's really concerning.".

I get it, Amber has lots of insecurities, but Dave's (judgmental) comments like that are really cruel.  She was being completely open and vulnerable.  She meant it as a compliment to what they were building.  Let's be honest, most of us who are married would describe our marriage as our most honest relationship.  It's not unusual.  Dave used it in a way to point out what was "wrong" with her.  Even Dave said in the finale that he has really high standards for his wife.  Amber was picking up on that, either overtly or subtly, and it heightened her lack of confidence. Also, I'm convinced Dave has zero sense of humor.  

Did anyone else notice that we never saw Dave and Amber in bed at their place?  We saw them in bed when they traveled, but never at home.  Mia and Tristan never got up.  Danielle and Bobby had many "pillow talk" scenes.  I always wondered why for our most-active couple?!

And lastly, FWIW, Amber commented awhile back that she usually only went to one class at the gym.  The same class, multiple times a week.  And she went with her closest friends.  I was thinking she didn't want to change because she would have to give all that up.  But who knows?  Maybe gym guy was in the class with her!  

I love this whole post.

    As soon as it came out that Tristan wanted to move to Houston, I was suspect of his motives.  He played it off like he could watch over his businesses, but if they were all doing so poorly that he had to use Mia's insurance, something just ain't right.  And to ask a woman you've known for a few weeks to move like that is telling.  I can't believe the "experts" wouldn't have done any sort of discovery into his financial situation, plus advised the newly married couple to stay put for at least a year.  

    Marriage to a brand new person + financial struggles + a move to a new city = a recipe for disaster, without taking into account any of Mia's lies and manipulation.

   Tristan is no better than Mia.  His huge smile had me fooled too, at first, until I saw that he's as much of a gaslighter as she is.  Only for him, I think it was more about what he could get from her:  financial stability and insurance.  By strongly encouraging her to move to Houston, we see the first step in a potentially bad pattern, which is isolation.  

   Tristan wanted Mia to move so badly because that would cause her to become completely isolated:  she has no friends or family in Houston, plus she works from home.  So she'd become completely dependent on him for all things social and family, plus she doesn't know the city.  I actually live in Houston, and it can be very daunting to a newcomer.  Tristan loved that prospect, so by becoming tied to her financially via the insurance, she wouldn't easily be able to leave him.  I honestly was going to try to figure out a way to reach out to her, had she moved, to help her out here.  No, I don't love her lies/manipulation, but I feel for anyone new here, as it's a gigantic city and easy to feel alone, despite all the population.

Edited October 27, 2018 by Sterling

[StatisticalOutlier]

13 hours ago, krbr51 said:

First, Mia sucks.  We pretty much all agree on that.  But Tristan.... HOW did the "experts" miss that how multiple businesses were failing?  Surely they look into these people's finances a little.  My opinion?  Tristan needed this marriage to keep himself financially afloat.  IE- the insurance debacle.  He needed her to take him on, so he could save money.  ...

I'm glad they aren't together, but Tristan is probably pissed he can't sponge off her Cobra benefits for the next 6 months or so.

But Tristan would have had no idea whether the person he's being matched with is even financially solvent, never mind able to help support him.  After all, if he had sketchy finances, then he knew they accept people with sketchy finances.  There was no reason for him to be confident whoever he's matched with wasn't the same, so for him to count on the marriage at first sight to bail him out financially would be pretty stupid.

And actually, it was Mia's employer-provided insurance, not COBRA.  But again, there was no reason for him to believe whoever he got matched with would have employer-provided insurance--he didn't and he was selected.

I'm not sure getting on her insurance would have been that much of a savings.  If he was in the financial straits we think he was, then he would be able to get health insurance on the individual market and get a subsidy to help pay for it.  On Mia's plan, he'd have to pay the full premium.  Her plan might have a lower deductible, but for young people, insurance is usually more of an "in case of disaster" sort of deal.

And I don't think anyone's discussed Tristan's arrest for DWI and evading arrest when he was 19, I think.  Where DO they find these people?

 

Quote

Did anyone else notice that we never saw Dave and Amber in bed at their place?  We saw them in bed when they traveled, but never at home.  Mia and Tristan never got up.  Danielle and Bobby had many "pillow talk" scenes.  I always wondered why for our most-active couple?!

Maybe if the show were on Cinemax.

[love2lovebadtv]

On 10/24/2018 at 12:42 AM, Gem 10 said:

So .. Dave was USING Amber for sex every night.  He knew he wasn’t going the distance but he still used her.  That is what you call a creep.  Amber probably had hope that he would fall for her, so she engaged in sex.  Sad.   Now, she has to find a new gym for sure.  She must feel like a jerk.

I didn't think he was using her. I got the impression they liked having sex with each other. If she thought that sex=love, then she wouldn't have kept asking him how he felt about her. She didn't assume things would go well because of the sex. Rather, it seemed that they both thought of sex as one area they had under control. 

[sasha206]

On 10/23/2018 at 9:47 PM, Straycat80 said:

I’d like to know what Dave’s friend told him about Amber. Was she the gym ho or something like that? 

There had to be something really wrong that happened; I don't believe Dave would have not been able to get over her previously dating a friend.  And when she first realized she had dated his friend, she had a look of OH SHIT on her face.  I think she probably went fatal attraction on the friend.

And Amber's hair to me...does she get it professionally done?  Looks like another box dye job and a bad one.