S01.E04: Friday Night Dinner

[kazza]

The flashback to Eddie on stage with his band was interesting context. Katherine was clearly enamored with Eddie The Lead Singer of a Band, but even then, she leaned on Jon for support, physically, with her arm on his shoulder. If the basis of their relationship was an attraction to the bad boy while she had her mental connection with someone else, it's not difficult to see how the relationship would have soured once he traded in the bad boy persona to become a stay at home dad teaching guitar to kids in the suburbs. Add resentment and bitterness if she was the one who had to deal with the alcoholism treatment while dealing with a newborn and supporting the family. 

Nitpicky moment: Unless Delilah was speaking about a fictional Beacon Street in their fictional upscale Boston suburb, her suggestion to go to a Thai place on Beacon made no sense. There is no way someone would bring their family from the suburbs to the Back Bay on a Friday night for dinner on a whim. 

[HazelEyes4325]

4 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

This is actually a good point.

I  just still can' get over that if Eddie and Delilah were so unhappy in their respective marriages, so much so that they had to have an affair with someone, then they had all of Boston to choose from.  But they had to have an affair with each other.  It is almost as if they wanted to hurt their respective spouses even more.  And if Delilah was feeling so abandoned by Jon and Eddie was feeling so over-controlled by Katherine the subconscious need to give that extra little fuck you to their spouses could very well have been an motivating factor than just "oh we fell in love and couldn;t help ourselves"

I have a couple of suspicions about this.  First of all, I still have an inkling that Delilah was not the only woman whose bed Eddie had warmed as far as his guitar lesson services (although in this episode we find out that he has some kind of studio at his house and his students come there...which makes some scenes from earlier episodes nonsensical).  The feeling I get from him is that he is sort of a serial monogamist.  He's "in love" with the one person he's with at the time, but that changes.  Now, most of that is just a gut feeling that I have.

Secondly, there is not a doubt in my mind that Delilah's motivation with the affair was to send a fuck you to her husband.  I also get the feeling that she's the sort of mother who is jealous of her own kids if they get the attention she wants (unfortunately, my mother was a bit like this).  As someone said above, we've seen Jon devote a lot of time to his family, yet Delilah still complained of being neglected.  Basically, she didn't want him to focus on their family, she wanted him to focus on her.

5 minutes ago, kazza said:

Nitpicky moment: Unless Delilah was speaking about a fictional Beacon Street in their fictional upscale Boston suburb, her suggestion to go to a Thai place on Beacon made no sense. There is no way someone would bring their family from the suburbs to the Back Bay on a Friday night for dinner on a whim. 

 

So far, the list of things about Boston that this show has gotten right are:

1 - They have a hockey team called the Bruins

2 - There is a bartender named Sully

Beyond that, they have completely missed the mark on a pretty iconic city that so many other shows have gotten right.

[cardigirl]

1 hour ago, kazza said:

The flashback to Eddie on stage with his band was interesting context. Katherine was clearly enamored with Eddie The Lead Singer of a Band, but even then, she leaned on Jon for support, physically, with her arm on his shoulder. If the basis of their relationship was an attraction to the bad boy while she had her mental connection with someone else, it's not difficult to see how the relationship would have soured once he traded in the bad boy persona to become a stay at home dad teaching guitar to kids in the suburbs. Add resentment and bitterness if she was the one who had to deal with the alcoholism treatment while dealing with a newborn and supporting the family. 

Nitpicky moment: Unless Delilah was speaking about a fictional Beacon Street in their fictional upscale Boston suburb, her suggestion to go to a Thai place on Beacon made no sense. There is no way someone would bring their family from the suburbs to the Back Bay on a Friday night for dinner on a whim. 

Beacon street runs through Newton, a rather upscale town very close in to Boston,   (as well as Brookline, also high end and next to Boston ) so they could conceivably go for Thai on Beacon street. 

[kazza]

11 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

Beacon street runs through Newton, a rather upscale town very close in to Boston,   (as well as Brookline, also high end and next to Boston ) so they could conceivably go for Thai on Beacon street. 

Ah, I stand corrected! Thanks cardigirl. :)

[HazelEyes4325]

48 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

Beacon street runs through Newton, a rather upscale town very close in to Boston,   (as well as Brookline, also high end and next to Boston ) so they could conceivably go for Thai on Beacon street. 

Now that you mention it, I HAVE gone for Thai on Beacon Street (it was a very awkward date...)

But the laziness with creating the world in which these characters live is driving me crazy.  Nothing looks like Boston, no one acts like it is Boston.  Heck it's mid-to-late October and people are wondering around in lightweight coats and Maggie is out running in an open-backed shirt.  A little bit of care n the part of the showrunners and set and costume designers can go a long way...

[Bluedog100]

I  watching this show on demand and it is literally 3 minutes of show and 4 minutes of commercials. It is soo annoying and distracting. Is this the case with regular showings?

[Guest]

It is unfortunate that so much of the story centers around Delilah when the actress is not strong enough to make me care. It is rapidly approaching the point where I fast forward through all of her scenes. 

Last week I hated Eddie but this week I am open to the idea that he can be redeemed. It helps that David Guintoli and Grace Park work well together. I am looking forward to seeing how it plays out.

12 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I understand that enduring another round of cancer treatment is daunting and very hard on a person, but, still, Maggie is so young.  I'm wondering why she is so opposed to the treatments.  When she met with her doctor, she didn't even say why she felt that way or what her motivation is to not seek further treatments.  She just asked about how much time she has left.  I wish the doctor had asked her to share her feelings about it, so we could get more of where she's coming from. Of course,it's her right to forego any further treatments, but, I wish I knew why.  

Her cancer has spread to her lymph nodes so her prognosis is probably poor even with treatment. 

Edited October 19, 2018 by Guest

[taragel]

There are so many things that make no sense about this show and every week we learn more of them. I don't believe for a second that this group was having pizza together every Friday night and/or that they've been friends since before Katherine got pregnant and Eddie was in his band. All of that makes Gary's speech in the pilot about them NEVER talking about anything beyond the surface very unlikely. Even given that they're men who don't like to share their feelings.... I just ... it does not compute. 

Plus if they go that far back--why do they all dislike St. Katherine? They know how she "used to be" and why she had to change to cover for Eddie. How can that engender NO sympathy for her from anyone but Jon?

Further Jon does not seem to be neglecting his family OR his wife. Nope. 

And finally if Maggie's cancer is already so advanced/metastatic...how does she have what seems like zero symptoms? It seems like she'd be feeling the effects by now.

And what was the point of getting Gerald McRaney in to play Delilah's dementia-afflicted father? Maybe he'll be back but I legit think they just did that because they're trying super hard to make a comparison between this show and This Is Us, but this show is far more cynical and dark than that one. 

[HazelEyes4325]

8 minutes ago, Dani said:

Last week I hated Eddie but this week I am open to the idea that he can be redeemed. It helps that David Guintoli and Grace Park work well together. I am looking forward to seeing how it plays out.

 

I also think that Eddie, based on his character, is not only redeemable but his redemption arc could be quite compelling.  He's got a lot working against him--a wife from whom he's estranged, a child, a staggering lack of maturity, an addiction, a vault worth of broken dreams...

And I agree that he and Park work well together (I don't think that he and Szostak work well together at all, but I'm putting that all on the actress since he seems to work well with everyone else in the cast and she doesn't).  I do want to see how they progress as a family but I can't say I would be unhappy if they decide to uncouple.  I just hope, if it comes to that, the show does its duty to both characters in the process.  I also wouldn't be unhappy if they stayed together.  I guess, at this point, I don't really care what the outcome is for the two of them, but I am keen to see their journey.

Delilah, on the other hand, doesn't seem redeemable to me.  The way they've set up the show, the only way they can redeem her (as far as I can tell) is to assassinate Jon's character.  I'm pleasantly surprised that this show has stayed away from the TIU pitfall of making the dead guy a saint, but I'd hate to see them swing in the other direction either.  I don't even know what Delilah has going in her favor--she didn't think twice about breaking up her friend's marriage, she gets mad when other people hold her accountable, as someone up thread said she stumbles over the line of taking responsibility and being manipulative, and she seems out of touch with her own kids.

This isn't the sort of show that needs a villain--I think that all the characters are flawed humans--but she is almost starting to seem like a villain to me.  But, at the same time, I feel like the show wants us to like her, not hate her.  Which is perplexing because I can't think of a single likable thing about her.

1 minute ago, taragel said:

There are so many things that make no sense about this show and every week we learn more of them. I don't believe for a second that this group was having pizza together every Friday night and/or that they've been friends since before Katherine got pregnant and Eddie was in his band. All of that makes Gary's speech in the pilot about them NEVER talking about anything beyond the surface very unlikely. Even given that they're men who don't like to share their feelings.... I just ... it does not compute. 

Plus if they go that far back--why do they all dislike St. Katherine? They know how she "used to be" and why she had to change to cover for Eddie. How can that engender NO sympathy for her from anyone but Jon?

Further Jon does not seem to be neglecting his family OR his wife. Nope. 

And finally if Maggie's cancer is already so advanced/metastatic...how does she have what seems like zero symptoms? It seems like she'd be feeling the effects by now.

And what was the point of getting Gerald McRaney in to play Delilah's dementia-afflicted father? Maybe he'll be back but I legit think they just did that because they're trying super hard to make a comparison between this show and This Is Us, but this show is far more cynical and dark than that one. 

3

I kind of feel like they wrote the pilot and didn't really worry about what comes next until after the show had been picked up because there are a lot of disconnects between the first episode and much of what comes after it.  I do give pilots a bit of grace with problems that would bother me in later episodes, but there are some epic continuity problems here already--in the 4th episode!!--and that does not bode well for this show.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

6 hours ago, kazza said:

The flashback to Eddie on stage with his band was interesting context. Katherine was clearly enamored with Eddie The Lead Singer of a Band, but even then, she leaned on Jon for support, physically, with her arm on his shoulder. If the basis of their relationship was an attraction to the bad boy while she had her mental connection with someone else, it's not difficult to see how the relationship would have soured once he traded in the bad boy persona to become a stay at home dad teaching guitar to kids in the suburbs. Add resentment and bitterness if she was the one who had to deal with the alcoholism treatment while dealing with a newborn and supporting the family.

I didn't see it that way at all. She seemed more like she was really proud of her husband achieving a goal and then concerned because she knew he was drinking too much.

[shapeshifter]

Ashley says to Delilah: "Love is weird. You know, we don't always get to choose who and how we love. Sometimes it chooses us," followed by a lingering close up on Ashley holding Delilah's hand, but then shortly after which Ashley longingly strokes the plastic covering Jon's dry cleaning.
I was expecting to see Ashley press Jon's clothes to her face to deeply inhale the lingering smell of Jon, but:

• dry cleaning wipes out human scents
• the plastic would've suffocated her (or so we've been warned)
• her words of wisdom on love seemed straight out of a Someone Is Gay reveal (Ashley or Jon)

Edited October 19, 2018 by shapeshifter

[cardigirl]

11 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

Now that you mention it, I HAVE gone for Thai on Beacon Street (it was a very awkward date...)

But the laziness with creating the world in which these characters live is driving me crazy.  Nothing looks like Boston, no one acts like it is Boston.  Heck it's mid-to-late October and people are wondering around in lightweight coats and Maggie is out running in an open-backed shirt.  A little bit of care n the part of the showrunners and set and costume designers can go a long way...

That’s funny to me, I think that’s one of the things the show has done right. They show a lot of shots of actual Boston. A lot of the sets feel Bostonian to me. 

The story is all over the place though.  And the pizza night story resolved the shattering of the group way too easily. 

Edited October 19, 2018 by cardigirl

[Eeksquire]

Quote

I  watching this show on demand and it is literally 3 minutes of show and 4 minutes of commercials. It is soo annoying and distracting. Is this the case with regular showings?

I noticed this last night watching the episode on the DVR - it's not so much that there are more commercials than regular shows, but that the scenes are really short and, unlike other shows where they might go from a scene with Gary and Maggie to a scene with Regina and Rome, this show says, "Oops! Those are different characters, so we'll stick a commercial in here!" I felt like I had to reach for the remote every sixty seconds or so to advance through two or three commercials, instead of other shows where you get 4-5 minutes of content before they cut to a longer block of commercials.  It made the whole episode seem really disjointed.

[DearEvette]

6 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

I kind of feel like they wrote the pilot and didn't really worry about what comes next until after the show had been picked up because there are a lot of disconnects between the first episode and much of what comes after it.  I do give pilots a bit of grace with problems that would bother me in later episodes, but there are some epic continuity problems here already--in the 4th episode!!--and that does not bode well for this show.

Yeah, the Katherine issue is probably one of the most glaring of these,  We all know they had to reshoot her scenes because of the recast.  But it almost felt like they were also re-writing her character even from one scene to the next. 

In one scene you have her talking about how she didn't realize the funeral would be an all day affair and referred to Jon as her husband's 'friend'.  And her line delivery in that scene made it seem like she found the whole thing an inconvenience.  Also it lined up really nicely with what we had been told about her from Eddie and later Gary that she was toxic.  But then  in a later scene she is telling Delilah that Jon was the only one who made her feel part of the group.  It almost feels like even after they had shot that first scene of her being rather distance and bitchy, they had already begun to re-imagine her character so the second scene softened her a bit.  I'd even guess that they'd decided to make Jon the only one who liked Katherine and shot that scene and inserted it after they had already written later episodes.

[sadie]

 Maybe it’s just because I have a HUGE problem with cheaters, I don’t understand why these writers seem to want to make Eddie and Delilah likable or sympathetic. We have two people who had spouses that were supporting them (neither of whom who could obviously be bothered to work) in very nice lifestyles. Sooo instead of divorcing them and doing the grown up thing they choose to sneak around during the day and hook up and lie to their faces A MILLION LITTLE TIMES, and Delilah bitches about how Jon wasn’t there for her. Boo hoo lady. And Eddie, blech, don’t get me started, he apparently was also a drunk on top of it all. And I’m sorry but the whole let’s all eat pizza and laugh and joke like I didn’t just find out you were boinking my husband behind my back was perhaps the most unrealistic scene in tv history and I’m including shows like Lost in that list. That’s how bad it was and all the hand waving in the world won’t fix it.

[Enigma X]

My thoughts on "Boston" not really looking like Boston. Not one of the NBC Chicago shows, Shameless, or ER really takes on the tone or appearance of actual Chicago. This is not unique to this show. It is just how TV works on most shows supposedly set in a known city but filmed somewhere else just won't get it right. Even the few that try throw in stereotypes of the area without actual giving the cities their real flavor.

[Lovecat]

8 hours ago, taragel said:

And finally if Maggie's cancer is already so advanced/metastatic...how does she have what seems like zero symptoms? It seems like she'd be feeling the effects by now.

If it has spread to the lymph nodes, as another poster mentioned (and I believe I remember hearing that during the show), she could be feeling quite well except for maybe some constitutional symptoms (fatigue, night sweats) that can be easily brushed aside or not even register, or she could be having no symptoms at all.  Sometimes affected lymph nodes are so deep you don't notice that they're swollen.  As part of her initial staging, in conjunction with any surgical resection she had, she probably had at least a sentinel LN biopsy which was negative.  Metastasis to the lymph nodes is considered Stage III (advanced) cancer, though.  In her fictional case, the oncologist is probably not offering her resection of the nodes affected at this time; I think current school of thought is that radical LN resection, especially after re-occurrence of the original tumor, doesn't necessarily affect overall survival.

Source:  Me.  I'm going for my first every-3-month ultrasound later today after the surgery I had in July to remove a melanoma and metastasis to a lymph node, the latter of which was a nasty surprise.  I've had 4 (of a planned 26!) cycles of immunotherapy to go after anything that might be hiding.  I'm feeling great; immunotherapy has fewer and milder side effects than "traditional" chemo, and most people don't even know that anything is going on, just that I had surgery over the summer.  "Scanxiety" is real, though!    

[mikem]

I'm fairly certain that Delilah is supposed to be French on the show:

- the mention that she was going to France when she and Jon met.

- when she and Regina show up at the office in the last episode, Ashley kisses Delilah on both cheeks in the European style, but hugs Regina.  This is the big one for me.

- this is a weak one, but when Delilah starts talking in the first episode, the closed captioning labels it as "[French accent]."  Maybe the closed captioning person took that upon themselves, but usually for a broadcast network show, the closed captioning seems like it's taken straight from the script.

Now why the show gives her a father with a completely American accent, and doesn't explain it at all, is beyond me.  But I think the show likes to create stupid "mysteries" like that.

 

I think that Delilah is getting a free pass, and Eddie is not, is because Delilah's behavior seems out of character, and Eddie's does not.  Although I can't stand Delilah's whining that people are trying to make Jon's suicide about her betrayal.  In real life, if a husband found out that his wife was cheating on him with one of his best friends, and then committed suicide, everyone would assume the two things were related.   Since this is a TV show, they probably aren't, but Delilah's bewilderment that people would think they were connected rings completely false.

 

I re-watched the first few minutes of the pilot, and Eddie drinks a ginger ale at the hockey game, while the other three are drinking beer. So I guess the seed was planted early that Eddie has a drinking problem.  And it's clearer than I remembered that Ashley rushed to the window because she actually saw Jon in the process of jumping.  So I think we are supposed to take it as gospel that Jon did in fact commit suicide.  (I think most people were, anyway, but I was wondering if he might have been murdered.)

[smartymarty]

10 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

I do give pilots a bit of grace with problems that would bother me in later episodes

I agree. Catherine was unsympathetic in episode 1, but not thereafter. Quite possibly different writers after the pilot got picked up.
(I think the pilot for Friends had Monica and Rachel high school classmates who did not like each other. Later, they tell us they double-dated for the prom.)

Wow these people made up over the whole affair reveal VERY quickly. And by very quickly I mean completely unrealistically. (And couldn't Gary have offered to drive Catherine and Eddie's kid home, so that Catherine and Eddie didn't have to awkwardly attend? Except that, oh, let's all be adults about this, because adultery really isn't such a big deal apparently.)

Ditto on the pizza night thing happening every Friday night. Nice parents also would let their teen-aged daughter off the hook every once in a while, or include her friends in it.

[possibilities]

13 hours ago, Bluedog100 said:

I  watching this show on demand and it is literally 3 minutes of show and 4 minutes of commercials. It is soo annoying and distracting. Is this the case with regular showings?

I'm able to watch it on Hulu with no commercials. You have to wait until the next day, and pay the "commercial free" Hulu subscription rate, though.

[Guest]

On 10/18/2018 at 7:37 AM, HazelEyes4325 said:

 

While I like the general Gary/Maggie story, the writing really bugged me.  Okay, the writing bugged me for this entire episode, but I seemed to notice it especially here.  I'm wondering--has D.J. Nash ever actually met a female?  Because he can't write them.   In that scene where Maggie was leaving the church after finding out that she was not the first of Gary's bathroom conquests I just keep thinking, "A woman would not be talking like this..."  Then, in her scene with Rome, it was fine...but it felt like the scene was written for Rome and Gary and they just swapped out one of the parties.

Surprisingly this episode was actually written by a woman. It is also the first episode not written by DJ Nash. 

[HazelEyes4325]

16 minutes ago, Dani said:

Surprisingly this episode was actually written by a woman. It is also the first episode not written by DJ Nash. 

Honestly, I find that shocking.  I mean, the women have never seemed the least bit realistic to me on this show, but the dialogue seemed to be worse in this episode.

[SunnyBeBe]

16 hours ago, Dani said:

It is unfortunate that so much of the story centers around Delilah when the actress is not strong enough to make me care. It is rapidly approaching the point where I fast forward through all of her scenes. 

Last week I hated Eddie but this week I am open to the idea that he can be redeemed. It helps that David Guintoli and Grace Park work well together. I am looking forward to seeing how it plays out.

Her cancer has spread to her lymph nodes so her prognosis is probably poor even with treatment. 

REf. boldface.  I didn't realize this.  

[taragel]

7 hours ago, Lovecat said:

If it has spread to the lymph nodes, as another poster mentioned (and I believe I remember hearing that during the show), she could be feeling quite well except for maybe some constitutional symptoms (fatigue, night sweats) that can be easily brushed aside or not even register, or she could be having no symptoms at all.  Sometimes affected lymph nodes are so deep you don't notice that they're swollen.  As part of her initial staging, in conjunction with any surgical resection she had, she probably had at least a sentinel LN biopsy which was negative.  Metastasis to the lymph nodes is considered Stage III (advanced) cancer, though.  In her fictional case, the oncologist is probably not offering her resection of the nodes affected at this time; I think current school of thought is that radical LN resection, especially after re-occurrence of the original tumor, doesn't necessarily affect overall survival.

Source:  Me.  I'm going for my first every-3-month ultrasound later today after the surgery I had in July to remove a melanoma and metastasis to a lymph node, the latter of which was a nasty surprise.  I've had 4 (of a planned 26!) cycles of immunotherapy to go after anything that might be hiding.  I'm feeling great; immunotherapy has fewer and milder side effects than "traditional" chemo, and most people don't even know that anything is going on, just that I had surgery over the summer.  "Scanxiety" is real, though!    

Thanks for explaining and I hope your scan came out clear! Glad to hear you're feeling very well too!

[WhosThatGirl]

Okay so I’m starting to think that this show may actually be closer to that show 30 something than this is us is, even though this is us has people who worked on 30 something working on it behind the scenes and also I have never watched 30 something, I was a baby but I’ve seen clips here and there on certain types of respective tv type shows and from what I see, this seems more like it.

Only because the way the characters kind of act and all that. I was always surprised that people really liked 30 something when from the clips I saw, the characters didn’t seem all that likeable. TIU sometimes has that problem but at the same time, there seems to be a feel good resolution at the end, unlike this show. 

Anyways..  is the assistant always going to come by with things for John like this episode with his dry cleaning and that other episode with the coffee? I wonder what’s next? I mean.. it’s obvious she’s sketchy about something.. an affair? A business deal, etc? But seems like the writers are going to run out of reasons to constantly drop her into scenes with Delliah.

Edited October 19, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[debraran]

Is lymph node involvement different when cancer returns? My sister didn't have any lymph nodes and her breast cancer came back 4 years later and she's doing okay. My Mom had 4, larger tumor and it never did (69 at time, 94 now) Cancer is so fickle and ominous.

I didn't care for the oncologist saying "You know you have cancer even if you don't take the booklets"  I know it's TV and has to be quick, but she's alone, told a devastating diagnosis and deserved more than that.  I also feel like many posting here, that its odd, no mention of "how long if I do the therapy?"  Then if he said not much longer, you'd understand the throwing away of the info.

I feel though, Eddie will help her and she'll be sick and get angry, all the emotions, but be okay in the end. At least I hope so.

 

Anyone have any idea about the business deal that probably made Jon jump? Was it jail time, financial ruin, can't figure it out yet, but I binged on 3 shows.  Lots of emotions to sort through.

Edited October 19, 2018 by debraran

[Neurochick]

On 10/17/2018 at 11:52 PM, Athena5217 said:

I don’t think Delilah is getting a free pass. I think her friends just feel like it’s more important to help John’s family, including her, than it is to be mad at her. If they give her the cold shoulder, they end up staying away from the kids too.  When you love someone, you are there for them, even when it’s hard.

I agree with this.  It’s like, do I want to be happy or do I want to be right?  Many just want to be right.

I think cheating is scary because if someone who seemed to have a great partner can do it, then anybody  can do it, including my husband/wife, and that’s scary.

[doodlebug]

3 hours ago, debraran said:

Is lymph node involvement different when cancer returns? My sister didn't have any lymph nodes and her breast cancer came back 4 years later and she's doing okay. My Mom had 4, larger tumor and it never did (69 at time, 94 now) Cancer is so fickle and ominous.

There is no simple answer to this.  There are multiple different kinds of breast cancer, some are sensitive to hormones, some aren't, some respond well to chemotherapy and radiation, others don't.  The lymph nodes of the body are part of what is known as the lymphatic system which carries cells to fight infections, etc.  In general, when a cancer spreads to a lymph node, it can be presumed that the cancer has potentially circulated throughout the body with the flow of lymphatic fluid.  So a cancer which is in the lymph nodes is one that has widespread metastases.  However, in the case of breast cancer, there are many survivors who have had positive lymph nodes, got appropriate treatment and lived a long, long time; sometimes even dying of something else.  

In general, breast cancer (and other cancers) tends to be more virulent when it occurs in a younger person like Maggie than when it happens in an elderly person.  However, even then, someone can survive many years.  I worked with a woman who was diagnosed with breast cancer in her mid 30's and had a recurrence in her lymph nodes and bones within a couple of years.  She lived about 9 years after that, even working full time until just a couple of months before her death.  Her kids were still in elementary school and high school when she was diagnosed.  Her two oldest were out of school and working and her youngest was a senior in high school by the time she died.  She was grateful that she'd gotten her kids to adulthood.

One of the youngest breast cancer patients I ever knew was diagnosed at age 24.  She was a young mother with 2 little kids, the oldest was 3.  She had no risk factors, no family history.  Her cancer also spread fairly shortly after her initial treatment.  She received multiple rounds of chemo and radiation over the years as the cancer spread, but spent months and months and sometimes years with little to no symptoms from her cancer.  It finally killed her more than 20 years after her initial diagnosis.  By then, her babies were out of college.  While she certainly went through a lot physically, she also had long stretches of normal life.

[Gothish520]

On 10/18/2018 at 9:29 AM, doodlebug said:

When they said she meant Jon in the airport when she was flying to France; I was hoping we'd hear that her mother was French and that she'd spent much of her childhood living there; hence, her obvious accent.  It ain't that hard to explain stuff like that; I find it hard to believe that TPTB thought she could pass for a native born American, her English is very good but she definitely has a French accent.

I'm pretty sure that's the case though, that she and her mother are from France. Her accent is fairly strong. This show is revealing information bit by bit, so it doesn't surprise me that we haven't learned everything there is about these characters yet. This is going to be a season-long process.

[SlovakPrincess]

Ok, I actually really liked this episode.

I am feeling more sympathetic to Delilah about the affair now.  Obviously, still very wrong, but dealing with her dad's dementia (seemingly alone, it doesn't seem like there are siblings in the picture to help) while Jon got more and more stressed out at work and distant?  I can see why she acted out in an unhealthy and wrong way.  

Katherine has the patience of a saint.  Though honestly she's got to have some built up resentment over having to the be responsible one - while probably sensing that Eddie resented her for it.  I wonder if the reason she's still pissed, but her anger has cooled fairly quickly, is because she was already getting sick of Eddie even before she learned about the affair.  

I certainly hope they come up with more story for Rome and Regina!  Everything about their story so far was wrapped up a little too neatly.  

I gasped when Maggie threw the treatment plan in the trash.  No, please try Maggie!  :(     Although I can imagine how horribly demoralizing that would be, to have your cancer come back, and even more aggressive.   Like running a marathon and finding out the next day you have to run another one -- with more hills.  I can see why the poor woman's in such denial about this.

Gary taking his shirt off to show Maggie his scarred chest (and to show he could change) melted my cold dead heart.  Aw!

Edited October 20, 2018 by SlovakPrincess

[hoodooznoodooz]

This show is corny and predictable, but for some reason, I still like it.  Maybe because they cast a lot of very attractive people.

[Gothish520]

On 10/18/2018 at 9:37 PM, HazelEyes4325 said:

Now that you mention it, I HAVE gone for Thai on Beacon Street (it was a very awkward date...)

But the laziness with creating the world in which these characters live is driving me crazy.  Nothing looks like Boston, no one acts like it is Boston.  Heck it's mid-to-late October and people are wondering around in lightweight coats and Maggie is out running in an open-backed shirt.  A little bit of care n the part of the showrunners and set and costume designers can go a long way...

I'm in New England about two and a half hours from Boston, and we haven't hit winter coat weather yet. Folks are still going coatless or wearing hoodies or light jackets. As for scenery, I've enjoyed what they've shown - they had a lovely shot of the Charles river this ep as well as a street scene in the North end.

On 10/19/2018 at 7:02 PM, Neurochick said:

I agree with this.  It’s like, do I want to be happy or do I want to be right?  Many just want to be right.

I think cheating is scary because if someone who seemed to have a great partner can do it, then anybody  can do it, including my husband/wife, and that’s scary.

Very true! People project their own fears into the situation. 

IMO, one of the most important things that partners can do for each other is pay attention. It goes hand-in-hand with communication in bulding a strong relationship. People get lost in their own heads or are so distracted by day to day living that they forget they are on this ride with another human being. Not saying that it's only your responsibility if something goes bad, but giving your partner your attention and really listening to what they are saying is a key ingredient in a healthy relationship.

ETA: to apply that to the show, it appears from what we have seen so far that Jon was not listening to Delilah. Not making excuses, and I'm sure as the season goes on that we will find out more, but so far Jon's looking like a workaholic and not all that sensitive to his partner's needs. Money and financial security are great, but they aren't love and emotional support.

[HazelEyes4325]

1 hour ago, Gothish520 said:

Very true! People project their own fears into the situation. 

IMO, one of the most important things that partners can do for each other is pay attention. It goes hand-in-hand with communication in bulding a strong relationship. People get lost in their own heads or are so distracted by day to day living that they forget they are on this ride with another human being. Not saying that it's only your responsibility if something goes bad, but giving your partner your attention and really listening to what they are saying is a key ingredient in a healthy relationship.

ETA: to apply that to the show, it appears from what we have seen so far that Jon was not listening to Delilah. Not making excuses, and I'm sure as the season goes on that we will find out more, but so far Jon's looking like a workaholic and not all that sensitive to his partner's needs. Money and financial security are great, but they aren't love and emotional support.

I agree with the importance of communication and listening, but I saw that scene differently.  We saw Jon and Delilah being affectionate and him talking directly to her.  Then we saw him getting snippy with his father-in-law in an understandable, but probably inappropriate way, and we saw Delilah privately and appropriately calling him on it.  Then, in the phone rings and he takes it.  I don't see that being not at all sensitive.  I see that as something that could and probably does happen in any functioning marriage.  If we had only seen the second half of that, the part with the phone call, I'd be with you.  But we didn't.  Putting the two scenes in context, I don't see anything to suggest that Jon was a neglectful or insensitive spouse.

Now, counter that with the scene from the first episode with Katherine and Eddie in their bedroom.  They aren't snippy with each other, but they very clearly aren't talking with each other.  Both are distracted--Katherine with her work and Eddie with the fact that he was just on the phone with his mistress.  That scene is far more evocative of a troubled marriage than anything we've seen between Jon and Delilah.  Heck, Rome and Regina's marriage, with Rome's big secret, seems more troublesome to me (not that I actually think their marriage is in trouble...)

I'm not saying this to defend Jon.  Honestly, after watching a season and a half of the beatification of St. Jack, I'd like to see Jon taken down a notch.  And, if we're stuck with Delilah, I'd like to find something likable about her.  But neither of those happened here.

[shapeshifter]

19 hours ago, SlovakPrincess said:

I gasped when Maggie threw the treatment plan in the trash.  No, please try Maggie!  :(     Although I can imagine how horribly demoralizing that would be, to have your cancer come back, and even more aggressive.   Like running a marathon and finding out the next day you have to run another one -- with more hills.  I can see why the poor woman's in such denial about this.

More like finding out you have to run a marathon the next day, and the next, and the next, until you drop dead, or, you can spend time with your loved ones before you drop dead. 

 

 

18 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

This show is corny and predictable, but for some reason, I still like it.  Maybe because they cast a lot of very attractive people.

Exactly.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Is there an Unpopular Thread here? Because I have NO SYMPATHY  for Maggie just not willing to try the protocol. Forget that her Oncologist was the most stereotypical unfeeling and cold doctor. She doesn’t even look like someone who’s beat cancer. She still has gorgeous hair and is physically fit. I had my own battles-double mastectomy AND chemo and lost my hair among other stuff. Fortunately enough to be in remission but my hair, has never been the same. And I know I should be grateful I’m relatively healthy but I miss my hair, eyelashes and brows. Maybe Maggie was among the nil percent who didn’t lose her hair.

She said she doesn’t want “to live like this.” She shows NO SIGNS of “this.”

Still don’t feel sorry for Delilah. And now I’m hearing the actress’s accent. I also can’t stand her whispery and teary way of talking.

[Guest]

On 10/18/2018 at 10:37 AM, HazelEyes4325 said:

And, I'm sorry, but NO!  The fact that everyone is sitting down happily to a meal together is just not flying.  I don't think even the Hallmark channel could get away with shit like that.  Any goodwill I had going was killed right then.

Yeah, I think I’m done. I wanted to love this show. But Gary’s plotline is the only one I’m interested in, and Gary, Katherine, and Rome are the only ones I really like. The sitting down to dinner doesn’t interest me, nor does the question of why Jon killed himself.

[HazelEyes4325]

2 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Is there an Unpopular Thread here? Because I have NO SYMPATHY  for Maggie just not willing to try the protocol. Forget that her Oncologist was the most stereotypical unfeeling and cold doctor. She doesn’t even look like someone who’s beat cancer. She still has gorgeous hair and is physically fit. I had my own battles-double mastectomy AND chemo and lost my hair among other stuff. Fortunately enough to be in remission but my hair, has never been the same. And I know I should be grateful I’m relatively healthy but I miss my hair, eyelashes and brows. Maybe Maggie was among the nil percent who didn’t lose her hair.

She said she doesn’t want “to live like this.” She shows NO SIGNS of “this.”

Still don’t feel sorry for Delilah. And now I’m hearing the actress’s accent. I also can’t stand her whispery and teary way of talking.

Yeah, I don't quite understand Maggie's cancer.  It's not that I don't have sympathy for her or that I can't understand why she would choose not to try treatment, but I just can't buy that she's a cancer survivor.  She's young and from what we've seen in the story, her last cancer diagnosis was in the somewhat recent past, but she seems to be the picture of health.  Everyone I know who has gone through cancer treatments definitely has scars (for lack of a better word) that last long after treatment and Maggie seems to have none of them.

Also, I'm glad to hear that you've won your own battles!

[Gothish520]

2 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

Yeah, I don't quite understand Maggie's cancer.  It's not that I don't have sympathy for her or that I can't understand why she would choose not to try treatment, but I just can't buy that she's a cancer survivor.  She's young and from what we've seen in the story, her last cancer diagnosis was in the somewhat recent past, but she seems to be the picture of health.  Everyone I know who has gone through cancer treatments definitely has scars (for lack of a better word) that last long after treatment and Maggie seems to have none of them.

Also, I'm glad to hear that you've won your own battles!

But Gary looks healthy too. Did he have any chemo or radiation, or just the operation? I don't remember if that was mentioned.

[Clanstarling]

On 10/17/2018 at 8:54 PM, ParadoxLost said:

It seems to be heading in the direction of Katherine being treated this way because of how the dynamic changed as she had to step and deal with Eddie's alcoholism.  

I wonder how pregnant Katherine will be when they blame her for how she handles Eddie's alcoholism. That she is flinching when he drinks is seems to point to him getting kicked out of the band when she is pregnant.  The birth probably gets him into a program.

I can't see them blaming Katherine for the alcoholism, or how she handles it. As I recall, Jon is the one who finally got Eddie to quit.

On 10/18/2018 at 3:52 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Hee, I love that Gary knows the proper wait to pronounce açaí. It's been around long enough to know that, Eddie! Sorry, that's just a pet peeve of mine, mostly because I've heard so many people mangle the pronunciation over the years.

You'd be peeved at me. I've never managed to say it right (not that I have a particular need to ever say it out loud).

On 10/18/2018 at 6:23 AM, Seelouis said:

Delilah’s accent is driving me nuts.  Especially now that we have met her dad who is clearly not French.  Is there some back story still to come or are they just expecting us to ignore the actress’ accent?  

I haven't even noticed. But there are plenty of children of couples who are of different nationalities. Their accents would depend on where they are raised.

On 10/18/2018 at 8:26 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

What I found especially sweet about Katherine is that it’s not just that she doesn’t want to fight with Eddie in front of Theo - she still wants them to have a good relationship where Theo loves and admires his dad. When he came downstairs and asked if he could have pancakes for breakfast, she cheerfully said, “Dad makes the best pancakes!” I’ve seen other parents tell much younger children “Your mom/dad is a lying cheating piece of shit” so the fact that she is choosing not to bring the issues in her relationship with Eddie into Theo’s relationship with Eddie makes me like her more. I know it sounds like I’m setting the bar kind of low because she’s choosing not to be vindictive, but there are a lot of people (real and fictional) who can’t seem to do that. 

I didn’t see Gary taking off his shirt as an attempt to manipulate Maggie or make it about himself. To me it seemed that he was making himself vulnerable to her. She mentioned in a previous episode that he still hadn’t taken his shirt off during sex. This week she questioned whether that was just a tactic he used to get her (and other women in their group) to sleep with him. I think he was genuinely self-conscious about his scar. Showing it to her was his way of admitting that their relationship isn’t just a fun hookup and that he’s willing to show her something that makes him feel less than attractive. In addition, I think that his other hope was that by showing her that he was willing to be more serious with her, she would tell him that she was no longer in remission. 

I don't think that's setting the bar low at all. There's being vindictive, being controlled and neutral, and being controlled and positive about your spouse as a parent.  The third one is certainly best for the children, though not everyone can manage I guess.

I also saw Gary's shirt removal in the same way - showing vulnerability to prove he's different than he was with the Gare-Bear woman.
 

On 10/18/2018 at 11:08 AM, SunnyBeBe said:

It's great that Rome gets to quit his job and work on his dream project. But, at the same time as his wife is pursuing her dream of getting a new restaurant off the ground?  Do they know even realize how many new restaurants don't make it and how they can't expect any profit for at least a year? Just wondering, because quitting your job with no income, EVEN if you downsize sounds bizarre to me.  I've never had that luxury. so perhaps, I'm jealous.

 And what about health insurance? Do they have large savings to rely on? Much equity in the house?   Of course, quitting the job is preferable to suicide, but, is making commercials that taxing on the spirit that it would drive you to take your own life?  IDK....I wonder if Rome knows that making a film is full of a lot of BS too and it's really stressful and may not end up like he wants.  He really seems to not think realistically.  It's nice his wife supports him though.  If not, he might have really lost it. But, on the inside, I wonder if she thought.....man, you're selfish.  Just when I'm building my dream, I'm going to have to lose it, because my husband doesn't like his job. 

All that ran through my mind as well. Of course, they don't have children, and even if his career as a commercial director was soul-sucking - I imagine it was pretty lucrative.  So they can take risks.

On 10/18/2018 at 5:19 PM, DearEvette said:

I  just still can' get over that if Eddie and Delilah were so unhappy in their respective marriages, so much so that they had to have an affair with someone, then they had all of Boston to choose from.  But they had to have an affair with each other.  It is almost as if they wanted to hurt their respective spouses even more.  And if Delilah was feeling so abandoned by Jon and Eddie was feeling so over-controlled by Katherine the subconscious need to give that extra little fuck you to their spouses could very well have been an motivating factor than just "oh we fell in love and couldn;t help ourselves"

From what I've seen in real life, most affairs aren't a product of going out looking for someone to screw - but something that happens when two unhappy people see each other socially or at work. It's more convenient, and easier to believe it's love driving the compulsion.

[HazelEyes4325]

10 hours ago, Gothish520 said:

But Gary looks healthy too. Did he have any chemo or radiation, or just the operation? I don't remember if that was mentioned.

They mentioned that Gary had vomited in Jon's car after chemo (Katherine's water also broke in his car.  I hope they got rid of his car!).  We did see in the dinner flashback that Gary had far less hair than he does in the present scenes, so at least that was something.  

 

1 hour ago, Clanstarling said:

From what I've seen in real life, most affairs aren't a product of going out looking for someone to screw - but something that happens when two unhappy people see each other socially or at work. It's more convenient, and easier to believe it's love driving the compulsion.

1

And I think don't think that either of them looked at the other and said, "I need to get a piece of that."  They both stroked each other's egos, which is how I've seen affairs happened.  Plus, Eddie seems to have idolized Jon, which I think played into the fact that he had an affair with her.  He was somehow living a bit of Jon's life through it, which probably seemed attractive to him since he was so unhappy in his own. (THAT DOES NOT EXCUSE HIM!  I kind of feel like I need to yell that every time I say something that might be construed as justification for Eddie.  I haven't found anything that remotely justifies Delilah's actions yet...)

[Gothish520]

9 minutes ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

They mentioned that Gary had vomited in Jon's car after chemo (Katherine's water also broke in his car.  I hope they got rid of his car!).  We did see in the dinner flashback that Gary had far less hair than he does in the present scenes, so at least that was something.  

 

And I think don't think that either of them looked at the other and said, "I need to get a piece of that."  They both stroked each other's egos, which is how I've seen affairs happened.  Plus, Eddie seems to have idolized Jon, which I think played into the fact that he had an affair with her.  He was somehow living a bit of Jon's life through it, which probably seemed attractive to him since he was so unhappy in his own. (THAT DOES NOT EXCUSE HIM!  I kind of feel like I need to yell that every time I say something that might be construed as justification for Eddie.  I haven't found anything that remotely justifies Delilah's actions yet...)

That's right, I forgot about the mention of the car incident. 

Often after the initial treatment, someone will bounce back and regain their health unless and/or until the cancer strikes again. But I agree that you would think she would be suffering some ill effect if it had come back as bad as it seems. Although, sometimes the treatment is much more a physical "tell" than the disease itself.

As for Eddie and Delilah, I will go out on a limb here and say that I think 99.9% of people (including our forum) absolutely know and believe that affairs are the worst. But I also believe that we all know they happen all the freaking time, and that there are many reasons, not the least of which is loneliness and unhappiness in their present situation. Also agree with @Clanstarling that proximity to a person who is fulfilling needs that are not otherwise being met is a huge factor. Eddie said that Delilah believed in and supported him; Delilah said that she felt invisible with Jon, and Eddie saw her. I can absolutely understand those feelings and see how the affair happened. Of course, they went about things in entirely the wrong way, but I get it. 

I'm also going to take up for Delilah/Stephanie Szostak here - I think Delilah's pain and shame are palpable and I think the actress is doing a bang-up job.

[doodlebug]

7 hours ago, Gothish520 said:

That's right, I forgot about the mention of the car incident. 

Often after the initial treatment, someone will bounce back and regain their health unless and/or until the cancer strikes again. But I agree that you would think she would be suffering some ill effect if it had come back as bad as it seems. Although, sometimes the treatment is much more a physical "tell" than the disease itself

If nothing else, I suppose we can presume she didn't get chemotherapy the first time around unless she has incredibly fast growing hair or really natural appearing extensions.  Or her diagnosis was more than a few years ago.

[Gothish520]

1 hour ago, doodlebug said:

If nothing else, I suppose we can presume she didn't get chemotherapy the first time around unless she has incredibly fast growing hair or really natural appearing extensions.  Or her diagnosis was more than a few years ago.

I'm sure it depends on the person and the type of chemo, length of treatment, etc., but my mother did not lose her hair after her first round, even though her doctor told her she would. 

[HazelEyes4325]

22 minutes ago, Gothish520 said:

I'm sure it depends on the person and the type of chemo, length of treatment, etc., but my mother did not lose her hair after her first round, even though her doctor told her she would. 

Yeah..there is a myriad of different treatments and not all cancers are the same.  It could very well be that whatever her previous treatment was, it was mild in terms of side and lasting effects.  My MIL went through 4 different treatments for cancer over 9 years and each one had very different effects.

[Athena5217]

I have a few friends who have had breast cancer. Some of them had chemo, and some had radiation.those who had radiation did not lose their hair, and seemed to have less health issues after treatment. Of those who lost their hair, one had it grow back fine, and one had some permeant hair loss. So I can believe Maggie can jog regularly and has beautiful hair after breast cancer.

BTW, the one constant with my friends different experiences with cancer is the FEAR. It’s terrifying to think about dying and about what your life will be like afterwards if you live. The words just don’t exist for me to express how much cancer sucks. So Maggie’s fear of treatment and perhaps paralysis about making a decision seems very realistic to me. The not unpacking is also familiar.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

3 hours ago, Gothish520 said:

I'm sure it depends on the person and the type of chemo, length of treatment, etc., but my mother did not lose her hair after her first round, even though her doctor told her she would. 

It really does vary. My dad had pretty long hair (his bangs were almost down to his chin) and although he had some minor hair loss, it wasn’t noticeable at all during his chemo or after he completed it. He still looked like he had a full head of hair even after months of chemo. He experienced plenty of other side effects from all the treatments but he never looked even close to bald. 

[Gothish520]

16 minutes ago, Athena5217 said:

I have a few friends who have had breast cancer. Some of them had chemo, and some had radiation.those who had radiation did not lose their hair, and seemed to have less health issues after treatment. Of those who lost their hair, one had it grow back fine, and one had some permeant hair loss. So I can believe Maggie can jog regularly and has beautiful hair after breast cancer.

BTW, the one constant with my friends different experiences with cancer is the FEAR. It’s terrifying to think about dying and about what your life will be like afterwards if you live. The words just don’t exist for me to express how much cancer sucks. So Maggie’s fear of treatment and perhaps paralysis about making a decision seems very realistic to me. The not unpacking is also familiar.

Lost my mother in March 2016 - lung cancer that had spread to her brain. Completely agree, it sucks hard. After seeing what she went through, I swore I would not let that happen to me - my statement at the time was "I'm not going out like that, I'll take a swan dive off a cliff first." So yeah, I find Maggie's actions completely understandable.

[HazelEyes4325]

26 minutes ago, Gothish520 said:

Lost my mother in March 2016 - lung cancer that had spread to her brain. Completely agree, it sucks hard. After seeing what she went through, I swore I would not let that happen to me - my statement at the time was "I'm not going out like that, I'll take a swan dive off a cliff first." So yeah, I find Maggie's actions completely understandable.

I'm so sorry for the loss of your mother and what she had to go through...

[Gothish520]

1 hour ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

I'm so sorry for the loss of your mother and what she had to go through...

Thank you! <3

[Sandman]

On 10/18/2018 at 6:07 PM, Athena5217 said:

I think it is just the actress slipping because I only notice it sometimes.  I wish they’d just give her a French backstory. I’m fine with a character having a French accent as long as it makes sense for them to have one.

I haven't really noticed the actress's native accent, to be honest, but I'm happy to fanwank that her mother was French (and married to Dr. K, but I digress...)