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S04.E15: I Need to Find My Frenemy

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Rebecca (Rachel Bloom) gets a call to help her old nemesis (guest star Rachel Grate) out of a complicated situation.  Meanwhile, Nathaniel (Scott Michael Foster), Josh (Vincent Rodriguez III) and Greg (Skylar Astin) attempt to deal with their competing feelings for Rebecca.

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I loved the reprise of "The Math of Love"! But yeah, this love quandriangle is getting old. Not sure how the proposal to go on a date with each guy will work out.

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It was really wonderful to see Audra return, and to see Paula destroy the poker game.  But I had to fast forward through the scenes of Josh/Nathaniel/Greg since I honestly couldn't care less about any of them, and wish we could spend more time watching Paula launch her career, seeing Rebecca's mom again, and seeing a resolution for the other women on this show, since they are so much more compelling than the men.  

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I was happy for the girl time in Vegas although those suits looked anything but expensive.  And Paula, while you might not need to spend thousands of dollars on suits, Dress Barn isn't going to cut it there either.

I did love Valencia's reaction when she realized she could propose but I also wish she would have told Beth that she's not willing to buy property with someone she's not married or engaged to.   I was rolling my eyes at Beth being ready to do that but not ready for marriage.  Buying a house together is a pretty huge commitment that, in some ways, is harder to get out of than a marriage. 

My favorite moment of the episode, though, was White Josh's delighted reaction as soon as Josh came into the restaurant telling Greg to "stand down."  He just knew it was going to get good.

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I’m still waiting for the episode on Netflix, but White Josh! Oh, that’s great news, I missed him last week. I get there was no place for him, but I’d have loved to have gotten his reaction to the revue.

ETA: Watched it and yes, the mess with the guys is exhausting, even to Rebecca apparently. But I liked the Math of Love Triangles (Quadrangles) reprise and I found And I shall... samesies. genuinely funny. I suppose Rebecca has taught Josh well, though. Because Tap That Ass definitely implied he didn’t always manage to satisfy.

I wasn’t crazy about Slow Motion, but Valencia’s sneeze and Paula’s facial expressions managed to elevate it. 

Loved Audra’s crazy ass and the JAP Cheer Rap.

Edited by bijoux
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Oh, Rebecca, did you learn nothing when Ross made that list comparing Julie and Rachel? NEVER LEAVE WRITTEN EVIDENCE LIKE THAT! 

I love whenever we get a Fett Regoso reference.

Although this is the first we've really heard of Hector being so dependent on Heather for stuff, it's not surprising since he only recently moved out of his mom's house. I'm glad that Heather just flat out told him that he needs to handle his own shit.

I'm totally fine if the division of labor is not totally 50/50 but Heather was right - he was acting like she was his mom. Stop losing your keys. Keep track of your own hoodie. Don't text to ask about the difference between the smoke detector and the carbon monoxide detector when you know your wife is on vacation. Act like a responsible adult.

I loved how unabashedly excited White Josh was about all of the "stand down" declarations.

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Not a bad episode, but I'm not loving how the show is trivializing Rebecca's "choice" between the three men.  They're making it more of a farce than a real life serious decision.  Are they attempting to tease the audience that wants to see her end up with one of them?  Are they showing us that none of them is the right choice, at least not right now?  It would seem to me that she is not ready to make that decision and that it still would take some time before she lived into the answer, so I'm not sure we're going to see her end up with anyone at this point.  Unless the show is going to pull a rabbit out of a hat with the three dates thing.  Whatever.

I did love how Audra now admires Rebecca for her growth, though.  That was a great way to put an exclamation point on how far she's come.

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12 hours ago, kit.kat343 said:

But I had to fast forward through the scenes of Josh/Nathaniel/Greg since I honestly couldn't care less about any of them, and wish we could spend more time watching Paula launch her career, seeing Rebecca's mom again, and seeing a resolution for the other women on this show, since they are so much more compelling than the men.  

Seriously.  This is what happens when there are too many episodes, but not enough storylines to sustain them.  I am beyond tired of the holding pattern that is the Josh/Nathaniel/Greg storyline.  They ran out of interesting things to do with it two or three episodes ago, and it's obvious they are waiting until either the next to last or last episode to finally resolve it. 

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So many call backs this episode! The reprise of the JAP Battle Rap (but now with extra positivity), Audra and her family, the Love Triangle song (now a quadrangle!), Audra quoting the second season theme song, it really does seem like we are heading towards wrapping things up. Love that they have made something close to peace, and that Audra appreciates Rebecca's free spirit. Although, Rebecca being almost gleeful when she found out that Audra had a freak out and was possibly throwing her perfect life away was super funny in its pettiness. 

I am still pretty sure this love quadrangle will end with Rebecca pulling a I Choose Me on us, so its something of a waste of time, but I did crack up over the guys finding the list and being all confused by it. Dont leave written evidence Rebecca! As a former lawyer, you should know this!

One of my favorite running jokes on the show is how White Josh just does not get what the big deal about Rebecca is, and why so many guys are in love with her. That being said, he loves dinner and a show. 

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13 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I did love Valencia's reaction when she realized she could propose

I thought that realization was kind of dumb, tbh. It never occurred to Valencia she could propose? I sort of get it, but I sort of don't.

Paula had some great moments in this episode, and I loved it when she took the money out of her bra and threw on the table, and then proceeded to completely annihilate those mobsters. DLC also had some great facial expressions. She's a treasure.

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1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

One of my favorite running jokes on the show is how White Josh just does not get what the big deal about Rebecca is, and why so many guys are in love with her.

I could imagine guys being into her, but it is a bit of a stretch that these particular guys are still so hung up on her, given their history. She stalked Josh, sabotaged his relationships, coerced him into a wedding that freaked him out so much he tried to join the priesthood in order to avoid it, then tried to destroy him and his entire family. Then with Greg, she used to ditch him while they were out together and have sex with other men. She slept with his father. She's done less to Nathaniel, but he's had a front-row seat to some of the crazy. Growing and changing is one thing, but would three guys really be willing to take the risk with her again? If someone did to me what she did to Josh and Greg, I'd be happy for them that they got a diagnosis and were getting better, but I don't know that I'd want to get involved with them again.

So, yeah, I'm with White Josh. It's a little baffling. I guess it works in the bizarro world of this show, where everyone's a little nuts and over the top, but it would be silly in a more serious drama. I guess WhiJo is hanging a lampshade on the silliness, like "Yes, we know, but just go with it."

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This episode was so confusing, love quadrangle-wise. They are hitting the "Greg is the only one with a life independent of Rebecca" beats hard, he had the longest list in the columns, and they did have a prior relationship that seemed healthy. Maybe getting back together with Greg would be showing that now that they're both healthy and independent, they can be together.

Nathaniel slipped a little in my estimation, having Josh come to him first with the "stand down" and so readily admitting his feelings for Rebecca (where Greg had to be pushed, like the classic rom-com hero). On the other hand, I go back to the rom-com "I'm Almost Over You" episode, where I can't imagine they spent 44 minutes on Nathaniel letting Rebecca go, if he was really going to let Rebecca go (I've been on this merry-go-round with How I Met Your Mother, where "letting you go" never means letting you go, and is instead code for "ment2b")

I lean more towards that Rebecca will choose one in a throwaway moment/scene at the end of the series, similar to what others have said -- because love is just one of the things she needs to be healthy, not the only thing.

In other news, those were the nicest, classiest looking hotel rooms I have ever seen in Vegas.

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3 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

I did love Valencia's reaction when she realized she could propose

I love that.  She was so ridiculously excited.

And I loved White Josh's reactions to the "Stand Downs."  So proper!

Rebecca will probably choose herself.  Meh.  In my imagination, she goes off with Nathaniel- who is good now. 

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10 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Heather was right - he was acting like she was his mom

... and he was acting like he was a small child, not an adult. I mean, even if she WAS his mom, his degree of dependency would be too much.

The show has always tried to subvert rom com cliches. The dwelling on which dude to choose, when clearly she doesn't actually have a preference and wasn't even looking for anyone until they all came after her, to me suggests that choosing any of them would be just more of her usual distractability. Yes, she thought she might be ready for love, but she had previously decided the healthy thing for her was to end her relationships with these guys, so why would she suddenly need to commit to one of them just because they wanted her to?

I've been bored with this plot for a long time now.

I also think the show is much less fun without the music. It's become whiny, and plodding, and unoriginal. I can watch any show on TV to see people in bland love triangles and other interpersonal angst. Adding a 4th to make it a quadrangle doesn't really add anything.

Edited by possibilities
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I think the fact that other than a painfully predictable and very short (and un-illuminating) reprise of "Math of Love Triangles" there have been no songs about Rebecca choosing one of the men shows how contrived it is. It also beggers the suspension of disbelief. Seriously, all three men, as far as she is able to understand, are on basically equal standing? That's not a real life dilemma. Furthermore, CXG is so up Rebecca's ass it hasn't once tried to establish for us exactly WHY all three have been stuck in the Rebecca groove and can't move on. It's an extremely chickenshit way to tell this so-called story.

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1 hour ago, DianeDobbler said:

I think the fact that other than a painfully predictable and very short (and un-illuminating) reprise of "Math of Love Triangles" there have been no songs about Rebecca choosing one of the men shows how contrived it is. It also beggers the suspension of disbelief. Seriously, all three men, as far as she is able to understand, are on basically equal standing? That's not a real life dilemma. Furthermore, CXG is so up Rebecca's ass it hasn't once tried to establish for us exactly WHY all three have been stuck in the Rebecca groove and can't move on. It's an extremely chickenshit way to tell this so-called story.

While I liked the detail that Rebecca wasn't ready for the reprise (scrambling to get into her costume) and that Josh, Greg, and Nathaniel were the chorus, it wasn't as gratifying as the original.

One difficulty with the whole quadrangle storyline is that we have reached the point where there is more emphasis on how the men are pining for Rebecca than there is on whether Rebecca is having a hard time deciding. It was Josh who was running around telling the other guys to back off, and now the men have demanded that she take each of them for a spin in order to settle their dispute. I feel like Rebecca should have shut that shit down without a second thought. Based on the preview

Spoiler

it appears that Rebecca goes ahead with the series of test dates, and maybe I should be more worried about Paula's apparent gambling problem?

I am having some difficulty understanding how Paula's poker winnings worked. Audra's Jesse owed a lot of money. Paula had $10,000 as her signing bonus which was earmarked for credit card debt plus she mentioned having to pay for her son's college. She parlayed that into enough to cover Jesse's debt, plus 5 Fett Regoso suits for herself and her friends and Rebecca's frenemy, and still cover all of her expenses?

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8 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

I thought that realization was kind of dumb, tbh. It never occurred to Valencia she could propose? I sort of get it, but I sort of don't.

I think Valencia is the kind of person who always imagined being proposed to and being the bride.  Even when she found herself dating women, I could believe that she still saw herself in the traditional bridal role and assumed that Beth, even though she too is a woman, would just do what grooms traditionally do.

5 hours ago, Eolivet said:

This episode was so confusing, love quadrangle-wise. They are hitting the "Greg is the only one with a life independent of Rebecca" beats hard, he had the longest list in the columns, and they did have a prior relationship that seemed healthy. Maybe getting back together with Greg would be showing that now that they're both healthy and independent, they can be together.

They also had White Josh talk him into throwing his hat into the room even though he didn't quite understand it all.

4 hours ago, possibilities said:

The show has always tried to subvert rom com cliches. The dwelling on which dude to choose, when clearly she doesn't actually have a preference and wasn't even looking for anyone until they all came after her, to me suggests that choosing any of them would be just more of her usual distractability. Yes, she thought she might be ready for love, but she had previously decided the healthy thing for her was to end her relationships with these guys, so why would she suddenly need to commit to one of them just because they wanted her to

I do think her ending up with any of the three would ultimately be a romcom ending.  But I agree with you that the reason she stepped away from Greg was to focus on herself for a while and since I don't think there was a time jump, I'd be curious what changed for her.

1 hour ago, SomeTameGazelle said:

One difficulty with the whole quadrangle storyline is that we have reached the point where there is more emphasis on how the men are pining for Rebecca than there is on whether Rebecca is having a hard time deciding. It was Josh who was running around telling the other guys to back off, and now the men have demanded that she take each of them for a spin in order to settle their dispute. I feel like Rebecca should have shut that shit down without a second thought.

I can't see how the plan would work unless it was to independently show why each won't work because she already knows their benefits.  To be fair to the guys, though, both Josh and Greg did want to make sure she was okay with their plan which I was glad to see because it was initially a rather blunt proposal.

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22 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I was happy for the girl time in Vegas although those suits looked anything but expensive.  And Paula, while you might not need to spend thousands of dollars on suits, Dress Barn isn't going to cut it there either.

I had a skirt suit made for me last year by a proper tailor. Pattern, fabric, and tailoring altogther was around $1100 plus sales taxes.

And for the first time in years, the waistband falls at my waist and stays there instead of dropping below or rising above by fat belly. And the jacket has real pockets.

I do not understand why anyone would pay for an off the rack suit more than they would pay for a custom made garment.

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10 hours ago, Irlandesa said:
19 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

I thought that realization was kind of dumb, tbh. It never occurred to Valencia she could propose? I sort of get it, but I sort of don't.

I think Valencia is the kind of person who always imagined being proposed to and being the bride.  Even when she found herself dating women, I could believe that she still saw herself in the traditional bridal role and assumed that Beth, even though she too is a woman, would just do what grooms traditionally do.

That's what I mean by getting it and not getting it. But I'd rather she realized she could propose but wanted the more traditional role of being proposed to. That would have made things less dumb, IMO.

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20 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

One of my favorite running jokes on the show is how White Josh just does not get what the big deal about Rebecca is, and why so many guys are in love with her.

I am forever White Josh on this one. 

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10 hours ago, femmefan1946 said:

I do not understand why anyone would pay for an off the rack suit more than they would pay for a custom made garment.

Those off the rack expensive suits usually come with custom alteration so there is that.  I'm still looking for a good tailor in my area after 20 years, so I would not be willing to take the risk of having one make me a custom suit.

10 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I do think her ending up with any of the three would ultimately be a romcom ending.  But I agree with you that the reason she stepped away from Greg was to focus on herself for a while and since I don't think there was a time jump, I'd be curious what changed for her.

I can't see how the plan would work unless it was to independently show why each won't work because she already knows their benefits.  To be fair to the guys, though, both Josh and Greg did want to make sure she was okay with their plan which I was glad to see because it was initially a rather blunt proposal.

I think perhaps the show is trying to tell the audience that none of them is the right choice for Rebecca right now.  I'm like, OK, whatever at this point.  If it's not meant to be, it's not meant to be.  As long as she's happy.

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I liked how at the end of the episode, all of the non-Rebecca issues were resolved by having adult conversations:  Heather tells Hector to get his shit together, Valencia realizes she could propose (and still be A Bride, which is where I think her hangup was coming from), even Paula and her new boss about the "unofficial dress code."

So I'm hopeful for the love quadrangle.

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So I loved the Slow Motion songs (and visuals); it's the kind of silly stuff that got me into this show. Also the references to Seasons 1 and 2.

And while I found Josh going around demanding the other guys "stand down" (and WhiJo's reactions) amusing, I did not like the resolution to that subplot. Yet another go around with all three love interests?? UGH. And acting as if all three are on equal footing? Come on, show. To me, that only makes sense if she doesn't choose any of them. (My preference.)

So back to Rebecca - I did like that the plot with Audra showed how much she's grown and changed, and now there's more 'friend' in her frenemy relationship.

Previously, they've brought in Trent as a kind of prior or more extreme version of Rebecca, to highlight her "crazy" behavior and/or growth, and I was expecting that again at some point this season. However, I think this plot with Audra accomplished that.

All the ladies being happy to avoid their problems by escaping to Vegas was fun. But I'm glad that that they were all able to resolve them with adult conversations (as noted above).

Edited by Trini
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15 hours ago, SomeTameGazelle said:

I am having some difficulty understanding how Paula's poker winnings worked. Audra's Jesse owed a lot of money. Paula had $10,000 as her signing bonus which was earmarked for credit card debt plus she mentioned having to pay for her son's college. She parlayed that into enough to cover Jesse's debt, plus 5 Fett Regoso suits for herself and her friends and Rebecca's frenemy, and still cover all of her expenses?

Agreed. Each of the suits is 8k each! So 40k plus what Jesse lost plus a new roof and college? Don't think a pair of jacks did all that.

Reminds me of the classic movie My Man Godfrey which I think is overpraised for a number of reasons, but, at one point, William Powell's character explains how he parlayed a single "borrowed" pearl necklace into enough money to pay off the family's debts, restore their wealth, AND recover the necklace all in a matter of days. Played completely straight.

Back to CXG - I, also, think "Go on a date with each of us" was a complete WTF and Rebecca's mystified answer, like all of a sudden she couldn't do math, not to mention she went along with the CONCEPT, was a complete "What show am I watching and when did they decide to say "Never mind" to anything feminist? WHY does she have to decide again? Isn't the fact that she can't decide maybe a sign she shouldn't be deciding? It does not help that CXG is taking the usual cheapo cop-out when shows do stuff like this by calling itself out and trying to pre-empt criticism that way (via Whijo's mockery and jokes). Self-awareness is not an all purpose get out of jail free card for poor plotting. 

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21 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

I could imagine guys being into her, but it is a bit of a stretch that these particular guys are still so hung up on her, given their history. She stalked Josh, sabotaged his relationships, coerced him into a wedding that freaked him out so much he tried to join the priesthood in order to avoid it, then tried to destroy him and his entire family. Then with Greg, she used to ditch him while they were out together and have sex with other men. She slept with his father. She's done less to Nathaniel, but he's had a front-row seat to some of the crazy. Growing and changing is one thing, but would three guys really be willing to take the risk with her again? If someone did to me what she did to Josh and Greg, I'd be happy for them that they got a diagnosis and were getting better, but I don't know that I'd want to get involved with them again.

So, yeah, I'm with White Josh. It's a little baffling. I guess it works in the bizarro world of this show, where everyone's a little nuts and over the top, but it would be silly in a more serious drama. I guess WhiJo is hanging a lampshade on the silliness, like "Yes, we know, but just go with it."

I agree, especially Josh. And I couldn't be with someone who fucked my dad, ever. I know she was bottoming out and she has a mental illness that she wasn't managing for a long time, but that (and all her fuckery) would put her in the "I'm glad you're getting the help you need. Good luck to you, but don't call me again. I've been through enough" category for me. Who Rebecca ends up with is, by far, the least interesting thing to me. I know the show is a romantic comedy so that's what I signed up for, but I just don't care.

I thought those suits were hideous. I love Paula, I loved Paula owning that table, but those suits are ugly. However, I actually disagree with the idea that Paula would be OK wearing Dress Barn to work at a firm like that. There are a lot of steps between Versace and Dress Barn - Ann Taylor, J. Crew, Banana Republic. She could spend a few HUNDRED dollars on a suit, rather than a few THOUSAND.

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2 hours ago, Jesse said:

I liked how at the end of the episode, all of the non-Rebecca issues were resolved by having adult conversations:  Heather tells Hector to get his shit together, Valencia realizes she could propose (and still be A Bride, which is where I think her hangup was coming from), even Paula and her new boss about the "unofficial dress code."

The Paula thing was such a relief. I was so afraid that the outcome of that storyline would be that Paula would realize that the new law firm was too fancy for her and she didn't fit in, and that's how she'd end up back at the old firm. It was a pleasant surprise when she talked to the new boss and everything was cool.

1 hour ago, DianeDobbler said:

WHY does she have to decide again? Isn't the fact that she can't decide maybe a sign she shouldn't be deciding?

YES! She is under no obligation to choose one of those guys just because they all three want her. If she doesn't want any of them, that is a perfectly valid choice, and that column was missing. If she wanted one of them, then you'd think that she would have responded differently. If she isn't really pleased to hear they like her and want to be with her, then the response is, "Thank you, I'm flattered, but I'm not interested."

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3 hours ago, DianeDobbler said:

Agreed. Each of the suits is 8k each! So 40k plus what Jesse lost plus a new roof and college? Don't think a pair of jacks did all that.

I thought the editing implied she played several rounds and the pair of jacks was just the final hand. It seemed to be a high stakes game so I wouldn't be shocked if the entire pot were something like 200k. So 40k suits+5k roof+ let's pretend another 40k for younger son to go to a state school with in-state tuition+whatever we think greasy boyfriend owed. I think it's plausible within how ambiguously it was presented.

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My understanding from reading a couple of house blogs is a roof is in the 20k arena. Paula said "A new roof." so that's what it's going to cost. But ok, if it's high stakes enough, I guess so.

I don't know what the list is supposed to mean. Is it, "I love all of them equally, so I just have to do some calculations?" It is "Love is irrelevant, so the person with the highest score is the one I should be with?" WTF is the point? She went through a segment of this season not sure any of them were into her. Now that she knows they are ALL into her, that forces her to choose? How so?

I just think the show is overly invested in keeping it a surprise, and in doing so, has firmly installed itself in dumb ass territory. Very disappointing.

If I were writing it (I know), I'd put the focus on Rebecca's life and her friends' lives. And gradually fade 2 out of the three guys from her life, only we'd think all three were gone. One would get married - happily. The other would move away - happily. And the third would have seemingly been resolved in S3, and while remaining on the show, would be dating and pursuing his own life. So the audience is firmly on "This is about Rebecca, not a rom com." And then somehow in the last two episodes fold the third guy back in in a low key way. 

But this. Is just not a suspension of disbelief situation. I have no idea what CXG saying. What is Rebecca going to discover on the dates? What is she SEEKING to discover? Which one she actually loves? Which one has a few extra points on his column she hadn't considered before the date? Why is it necessary to do any of this?

Edited by DianeDobbler
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Paula's laundry list of things she needed money for was mostly from the prior episode, when she was discussing the high salary and what that would pay for.  She mentioned paying off credit cards and a new roof while at lunch with the ladies, but I don't think she was implying that the 10k bonus was paying for everything.  And if the poker game was a 5k buy in, she could have easily walked away with over 50k.  But to then blow it on ugly suits for everyone?  That was just weird.

I hope Paula stays with the new firm.  Going back to the old firm would be disappointing.

I'm assuming Rebecca chooses none of the three.  I'd be surprised if they have her pick any one of them.

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8 hours ago, Empress1 said:

There are a lot of steps between Versace and Dress Barn - Ann Taylor, J. Crew, Banana Republic. She could spend a few HUNDRED dollars on a suit, rather than a few THOUSAND.

I kind of thought what Paula was wearing to her interviews was ALREADY in the perfectly appropriate and polished high street category so I didn't get her problem. She wasn't wearing Dress Barn. Her interview suits were great and fit her perfectly, the green suit she wore on her first day was great and fit her perfectly, and her grooming was faultless. So what - she felt she needed a sherbert colored colorblock suit with matching buttons to fit in? Her original attire was more sophisticated than what everyone else was wearing.

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I am hoping they do not just fold on all the growth and feminism, and they resolve this nonsense with something that preserves what has been the entire trajectory of the show. Maybe Rebecca tells them that she isn't going to be pressured, she's not in the right head space to commit, she's going to date but not be exclusive, and they can all get over themselves. Or maybe (I know this won't happen, but it would be the most subversive of the tropes and kind of amuses me to ponder) they all get into a plural marriage together.

At this point, choosing one of them, or even choosing to be alone, seems too much like ground that's been trod. Maybe a middle ground is the healthiest thing for her now, and it's fresher besides. The center of her life is not One True Love, it's her exploring her options and continuing to pursue psychological sobriety over fantasy or desperation.

Everyone else resolved their conflicts with middle ground. Paula kept the job but didn't give in on the overpriced wardrobe. Valencia and Beth talking about it and came to an agreement without  breaking up or giving in. Heather told Hector what she needed, he heard her, and there was no insulting or blame or damage to the relationship. Darryl and WhiJo actually navigated their break up and stayed respectful, as well. The show has always shown that adults talk things out reasonably even when one or both of them has  been unreasonable. Paula worked out her marriage that way, too.

I want Rebecca to have that kind of happy ending, not one that mimics her original illness.

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14 minutes ago, possibilities said:

Maybe Rebecca tells them that she isn't going to be pressured, she's not in the right head space to commit, she's going to date but not be exclusive, and they can all get over themselves. Or maybe (I know this won't happen, but it would be the most subversive of the tropes and kind of amuses me to ponder) they all get into a plural marriage together.

If they had laid the groundwork for ethical non-monogamy I could totally see that happening. I don't think they have done but I don't think it's 100% out of the question either just to go for the most subversive anti-rom-com scenario. When I feel particularly annoyed with the Nathaniel propaganda I envision the end game as a polyamorous triad consisting of Rebecca, Greg, and Josh only, leaving Nathaniel as the only one rejected and alone.

Irrelevantly and shallowly, the Math of Love Quadrangles and the Nathaniel rom-com dream episode made me realise that I find Nathaniel more attractive when they put spectacles on him.

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9 hours ago, DianeDobbler said:

Self-awareness is not an all purpose get out of jail free card for poor plotting. 

As the kids used to say, This.

I'm really hoping the show can pull a rabbit out of its hat, but it's not looking good for all the reasons everyone's stating.  

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4 hours ago, DianeDobbler said:

My understanding from reading a couple of house blogs is a roof is in the 20k arena. Paula said "A new roof." so that's what it's going to cost.

I live in the Bay Area and we just got a new roof on our house last month for $8000. We got three quotes beforehand and they were all around the same cost. My mom lives in San Diego and she paid about the same for a new roof a few years ago (I don’t remember exactly when but it was definitely less than five years ago). She has a two story house that’s just under 2000 square feet. 

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4 hours ago, DianeDobbler said:

My understanding from reading a couple of house blogs is a roof is in the 20k arena. Paula said "A new roof." so that's what it's going to cost.

I live in the Bay Area and we just got a new roof on our house last month for $8000. We got three quotes beforehand and they were all around the same cost. My mom lives in San Diego and she paid about the same for a new roof a few years ago (I don’t remember exactly when but it was definitely less than five years ago). She has a two story house that’s just under 2000 square feet. 

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During the first year of my marriage, I had to give the "I'm not your mother" speech to Mr. Khyber. I guess its pretty common.

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It was the blog "Bower Power" that had the 21k roof after they shopped here there and everywhere for a lower cost. But I suppose their roof must have been in especially bad shape, and they do have a very large house.

In its first two seasons, CXG was so strongly structured and plotted, it was almost the main thing that drew me to the show. You can just sit back and enjoy everything because the premise is so strong. When there's a very strong plot, there's tremendous writing freedom. In her drive to win Josh, Rebecca could become discouraged and go in another direction, with that drive still underneath ready to be reactivated. She could take a pause and help a friend with THEIR adventure. Josh's life and her life could present challenges that complicated her pursuit. As long as that engine was under there the mini-stories that were layered on top were almost infinite. And the breaks and pauses and changes of direction were almost infinite, as long as that drive was still present, the show was cohesive.

So it was very notable to me in the second half of S3 that they didn't LOSE the plot, they just didn't have one. There was nothing there to move in to replace Rebecca's undiagnosed issues and lack of awareness of same. It was just, well, borderlines backslide a lot so we'll have her do a lot of crazy things! We'll still be the wacky CXG! But without that strong underlying premise, it felt sloppy and random. Once she crashed and burned Joshwise, the Nathaniel element wasn't strongly defined enough to pin stories on, especially as CXG seemed unsure if he was going to be her true love, Mr. Right Now, a sex thing and a friend, or was hoping WE'D tell THEM.

Because CXG did a big re-write on the finale, I thought they had finally taken a breath and realized they hadn't set the proper stakes, and although their solution wasn't perfect, they did rework the ending.

Which makes it so surprising to me that this season is so plotless. Aline previewed that Rebecca would have three guys after her, so I thought the creators would have a story in place. Instead it's pretty much just "These three guys like Rebecca, and that's really about it. We're gonna spin our wheels til the end. Every so often one of them will quit the game, but they won't mean it. We're not going to tell you anything new about them, none of them really have much of an individual story at this point. We'll repeat beats, and sooner or later the end will arrive." And it shows in the songwriting too.

That's it. It's all side stories. It reminds me of encountering early viewers of S1 and S2 CXG who didn't take the deconstruction, feminist, and mental illness part very seriously, and thought all of that was just a light pretext for a basic rom com show with a wacky lead. IOW, they got it backwards. But now I think CXG has become exactly that.

P.S. Or "Bauer Power"? Can't recall.

Edited by DianeDobbler
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Choose none of them, Rebecca. None of them.

That said, vegas scenes were lots of fun.

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The creators have hinted throughout the series that the real relationship throughline is Rebecca and Paula, so I'd be happy if, rather than pull the Kelly Taylor, Rebecca ended with something like "I choose...my best friend Paula." and then maybe add on "but I'm happy to keep dating one or more of the guys and see how things go." That would show a lot of growth, and allow Rebecca to keep exploring a romantic relationship while not making it her end-all-be-all. Unfortunately I don't think the writing for the Rebecca-Paula friendship has been as strong or present in the last couple seasons, so it would seem more out of left field than it once would have. Rebecca was definitely there for Paula after the heart attack, but they don't give the same "bestie" vibe that they used to, I think more due to budget and scheduling of the actors than anything else. 

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I enjoyed the episode, but come on, writers. Rebecca's past with Josh and Greg is irrecoverable. Not to mention, Josh's character has barely been developed past "cheerful," and there's nothing satisfying about the understudy (new Greg) getting the girl. Those characters deserved better send-offs than a silly love quadrangle.

Nathaniel has been written as the obvious endgame for at least this entire season if not earlier. "I choose myself" is a copout ending, and it's been done plenty of times. But who knows. I'm sure we aren't looking at a Josh or Greg endgame though. 

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nathaniel might have been endgame at one point but really, her only interest is that they suddenly all are interested in her. I am fully expecting Prince Charming to walk through the doors of the season finale and say, "hey, want to hop on my motorcycle and tour the nation's waffle huts?" and she walks out.

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A motorcycle tour of the nation's waffle huts? I'd chose that guy, too, hands down! He doesn't even have to be Prince Charming. Just not a total douche.

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agreed, the bar is set knee high.

Josh: man-baby

Nathaniel: better dressed professional man-baby

Greg: emotionally stunted control freak man-baby

So, Prince Not-A-Man-Baby walks in...

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On 3/24/2019 at 10:34 PM, SomeTameGazelle said:

Irrelevantly and shallowly, the Math of Love Quadrangles and the Nathaniel rom-com dream episode made me realise that I find Nathaniel more attractive when they put spectacles on him.

Hell yeah. Nerdy Nathaniel is super hot.

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On 3/25/2019 at 7:29 PM, Iseut said:

The creators have hinted throughout the series that the real relationship throughline is Rebecca and Paula, so I'd be happy if, rather than pull the Kelly Taylor, Rebecca ended with something like "I choose...my best friend Paula." and then maybe add on "but I'm happy to keep dating one or more of the guys and see how things go." That would show a lot of growth, and allow Rebecca to keep exploring a romantic relationship while not making it her end-all-be-all. Unfortunately I don't think the writing for the Rebecca-Paula friendship has been as strong or present in the last couple seasons, so it would seem more out of left field than it once would have. Rebecca was definitely there for Paula after the heart attack, but they don't give the same "bestie" vibe that they used to, I think more due to budget and scheduling of the actors than anything else. 

If they wanted to highlight Rebecca's relationship with Paula, I would expect to hear something about Naomi as well. Has Rebecca cut her out of her life permanently? I miss Tovah Feldshuh.

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The most offensive thing about this episode is that Paula's expensive Fett Regoso suit was an ugly color and didn't fit right. It should not pull and bunch! 

I'm Team White Josh, as in this whole "love" geometry problem is ridiculous. Wasn't Hector also an excellent Voice of Reason also, aside from his oblivion as to how his relationship with his mom looked to outsiders, before they decided to make him into a cartoon of a child instead? I need Father Brah's reactions, also. Actually I don't care what he thinks, I just love Father Brah and want him in more scenes. Anyway, if you don't feel strongly enough about any of these guys that they stand out above the others and any random new person you happen to meet who might take an interest, then the answer is none of them. I don't think Rebecca would be happy long-term with any of them. Josh is sweet, and probably the best option, but he kind of just goes for whatever is easy and right in front of him. Therapy is doing wonders for him, but I can see him eventually getting tired of Rebecca's nonsense and self-centeredness but just not doing anything about it, like he did with Valencia. I think Nathaniel wants to win more than anything else. Greg is a bad match because he hates doing anything fun, and Rebecca loves fun outings. Why be with such a killjoy if you're not also into hating everything?

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On 3/26/2019 at 4:22 PM, andipandi said:

So, Prince Not-A-Man-Baby walks in...

And I wonder why he would want to be with a woman baby?

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