S03.E01: The Ground Beneath Their Feet

[thewhiteowl]

Sept 24 Monday new night.

Bull returns to work after his heart attack with a rich,  new client. An insurance company that is being sued for denying coverage to a dying mother for her liver transplant

[Netfoot]

Wait.  You can transplant a lover now?  

[thewhiteowl]

40 minutes ago, Netfoot said:

Wait.  You can transplant a lover now?  

LOL! Damn you, autocorrect!

[FormerMod-a1]

No more cable?  I wish the actress well, but I'm not going to miss the character.  Although killing her offscreen is... something.

The rest of the episode was quite heavy handed, but I'm still watching. :-P

[JackONeill]

Does anyone know who performed Happy Days are Here Again?

[MerBearHou]

2 minutes ago, JackONeill said:

Does anyone know who performed Happy Days are Here Again?

Sure sounded like Barbra Streisand

Edited September 25, 2018 by MerBearHou

[JackONeill]

That’s what I thought. But so many shows seem to go with “new & trendy” talent. I guess Bull is going mainstream. Nothing wrong with that.

[Sarah 103]

I know and accept that TVLand operates under a different set of rules and logic. There is something about TAC that I found confusing and I am hoping someone here will be able to explain it. Does TAC only get paid if they win? I thought they were like lawyers, whether or not they win the case, they still get paid, but there might be some type of bonus if they win. 

I'm surprised they killed off Cable. I wonder if they will bring in a new character to fill the hacker/techie slot. 

[brgjoe]

I guess there is one thing I don't quite understand.  The insurance company refused to pay for a $400K kidney transplant surgery.  I guess because they claim they have limited resources.

Yet, they were able to afford to pay Bull's team $2M a month retainer?  Or even if it's $2M a case, that is still uber expensive.

I would think just paying that claim would be less expensive and much less hassle (and less hits to the PR part of it as well)

[alegtostandon]

1 hour ago, brgjoe said:

I guess there is one thing I don't quite understand.  The insurance company refused to pay for a $400K kidney transplant surgery.  I guess because they claim they have limited resources.

Yet, they were able to afford to pay Bull's team $2M a month retainer?  Or even if it's $2M a case, that is still uber expensive.

I would think just paying that claim would be less expensive and much less hassle (and less hits to the PR part of it as well)

I had thought the same thing. What crossed my mind, and I may be totally off base, is the money for legal fees comes from different sources, where money to pay for medical issues comes from premiums.

RIP, Cable. I read the actress wants to produce a movie she's been working on for 4 years & chose to leave. Hope it works out for her since Cable drowned. 

[Mystery Author]

Quote

Yet, they were able to afford to pay Bull's team $2M a month retainer?  Or even if it's $2M a case, that is still uber expensive.

I had the same thought and predicted early-on that Bull would turn the $2M over to the dying mom.

What I don't understand is how the jury could acquit (vote for) the insurance company. No explanation was given.

[JackONeill]

The acquittal was completely unexpected and unwarranted. And then for Bull to give away the money, which, yes, was a good deed, was ridiculous. He must be really rich, but wasn’t it just last season that he seemed to be having financial issues. I think he even said something about having to pay everyone (when he was in one of his snippy moods), as if that was taking too much money from him. And he always had a car to take him places, but last night he took a cab. True, it was late. Still, that seemed odd. Not that it’s any of my business, but the actress who played Cabal must have really pissed off someone. To drown them, which is a horrible way to die, but to have her body go unidentified for three weeks. Man, that’s cold.

[shrewd.buddha]

9 hours ago, brgjoe said:

I guess there is one thing I don't quite understand.  The insurance company refused to pay for a $400K kidney transplant surgery.  I guess because they claim they have limited resources.

Yet, they were able to afford to pay Bull's team $2M a month retainer?  Or even if it's $2M a case, that is still uber expensive.

Here is my cynical take on this: The insurance company will save millions, maybe billions, if they can shut down such settlements and avoid a precedent being set. Otherwise, they will be on the hook for paying out for liver transplants from that point forward. Similar to how some car companies 'do the math' and determine it is cheaper to settle some wrongful death lawsuits  instead of paying for a massive recall of their vehicles in order to fix a potentially deadly defect in the airbags. 

Edited September 25, 2018 by shrewd.buddha

[HurricaneVal]

After the skeezy insurance mogul client made reference to his stint in glam!rehab being covered by his insurance, I half expected the case to turn on that.  I expected it to be a real plot point, in that much would be made of his insurance company paying for the cushy lux rehab spa which probably cost beaucoup bucks but wouldn't pay for the young mom's liver transplant.  Or I expected it to come out that the skeezy insurance mogul doesn't use his own company's medical insurance because they're so bad...

Bull also seemed really..........disconnected.  I know some of it was supposed to be because he's freshly back and feeling awkward, or because he's uncomfortable on some level with taking the skeezy client on, or it is the third season doldrums.  I also wondered if Michael Weatherly spent some of the hiatus working out and dieting, because he was looking pretty stout by the end of last season, often masked by loosely hanging overcoats, but he looked slimmer last night.  Not Tony DiNozzo slim, but slimmer.

[Dowel Jones]

If the insurance company is willing to spend $2 million per month retainer for the TAC squad, that means that they are getting their asses handed to them every month by serious lawsuits, because the in house attorneys should be able to handle nuisance lawsuits.  I find it hard to believe that a company like that would stay in business long.

Looks like TAC needs to do a better job of picking mirror jurors. Bull and Benny were as surprised as everyone at the verdict, especially given the lame reason for the denial given by the CEO.

I had completely forgotten about the opening sequence on the bridge by the time they had announced that the bodies had been identified.

[FormerMod-a1]

7 hours ago, shrewd.buddha said:

Otherwise, they will be on the hook for paying out for liver transplants from that point forward

But they are paying for liver transplants.  The point they made is it's a hard choice.  Limited funds, limited resources (livers) so not all that need one can get one.  She was trying to force their hand to be the one chosen now and not someone else that had been waiting longer and had a longer life expectancy after it.  In an ideal world they'd all get them and not have to worry about paying for them.    I think the doctors and the defective machine manufacturor should have paid for her transplant.  But they did pay lipservice to that about it being a longer time frame for those cases.

[mythoughtis]

I’m going to miss Cable.   I wish they had at least explained why she was in the car with a man and two children.  To me, the show seemed rather flat this episode.  It might have been that travesty of a case, or it might have been the re-marriage.  The cast gel just didn’t seem to be there. 

[Netfoot]

49 minutes ago, mythoughtis said:

I wish they had at least explained why she was in the car with a man and two children.

What?!??   No.  That wasn't her.  

[mythoughtis]

2 hours ago, Netfoot said:

What?!??   No.  That wasn't her.  

I hadn’t thought it was - until they said Cable was on the bridge. Then I thought - why didn’t I recognize her? Thank you, I’m not going crazy after all.  So they couldn’t/wouldn’t  even film her long enough to show her on the bridge.  

[Aliconehead]

1 hour ago, mythoughtis said:

I hadn’t thought it was - until they said Cable was on the bridge. Then I thought - why didn’t I recognize her? Thank you, I’m not going crazy after all.  So they couldn’t/wouldn’t  even film her long enough to show her on the bridge.  

Which is odd since her father is the executive producer and creator. I think they were going for a mini mystery of what happened to her. They did not show her at the beginning because that would have lessened the shock for the audience 

[Sarah 103]

On 9/25/2018 at 2:22 AM, alegtostandon said:

I had thought the same thing. What crossed my mind, and I may be totally off base, is the money for legal fees comes from different sources, where money to pay for medical issues comes from premiums.

That explanation works for me. I have no if that's actually true, but if one of the characters in the episode had said that, I would have been willing to accept that as TVLogic and go with it. 

On 9/25/2018 at 9:44 AM, shrewd.buddha said:

Here is my cynical take on this: The insurance company will save millions, maybe billions, if they can shut down such settlements and avoid a precedent being set. Otherwise, they will be on the hook for paying out for liver transplants from that point forward. 

This explanation also works. It also fits really well with the idea expressed in the episode that livers are rare and that there are people ahead of her in line with much longer life expectancies. (not that I agree with that, but it would have worked well within the context of the episode). It also would have raised the stakes. It's no longer about this one case; there are greater implications. 

22 hours ago, HurricaneVal said:

After the skeezy insurance mogul client made reference to his stint in glam!rehab being covered by his insurance, I half expected the case to turn on that.  I expected it to be a real plot point, in that much would be made of his insurance company paying for the cushy lux rehab spa which probably cost beaucoup bucks but wouldn't pay for the young mom's liver transplant.  Or I expected it to come out that the skeezy insurance mogul doesn't use his own company's medical insurance because they're so bad...

That would have been awesome. 

[Sake614]

1 hour ago, Sarah 103 said:

livers are rare and that there are people ahead of her in line with much longer life expectancies. (not that I agree with that

 

But it's true. Sure it's horrible that this young woman is dying and will leave behind two small children. But there are others ahead of her on the waiting list. Some who've been there longer and have a better chance of surviving. She has cancer. No liver transplant is going to cure that. I do agree that the doctor/hospital/equipment manufacturer should have been held liable for the costs and not the insurance company. It was their negligence that caused the whole in her liver.

[Tdoc72]

I too forgot about the opening sequence. When Danni started looking around her apartment, I got a weird vibe from the landlord/apt manager. When she went back to the apartment and he opened his door w/the chain on, I thought we were about to see Cable’s body or blood in there or something. Too many crime shows I guess!

I’m glad the actress gets to do her passion project, but I liked Cable. I assume we’ll get a new tech soon.  

I didn’t like this episode because I didn’t like which side of the case they were on. Also all of that stress on the mom couldn’t be good for her either. 

[Mama No Life]

I'm sure MW has lost weight.  He trains a lot in the summers and he also got slimmer as the episode went on.  I'm sure it was aligned with the story.

 

Never liked cable so bye.  Actually I don't like most of the characters. Why do I watch this show?

 

2million a month is probably nothing for a firm that is probably sued constantly.  It's not that they couldn't afford 400,000, it's that it was a low-yield payout (I know that sounds horrible) and they probably are faced with that 100 times a month.  They need someone to keep them from having to pay all of them. Notice the insurance guy didn't seem that stressed when he thought they were going to lose.  They just have to keep fighting them or they'll go under but they expect to lose some.  

[laredhead]

I thought I read on this forum that MW had lost 15 pounds since last season.  Perhaps the weight gain was part of the plot line of his heart attack, and slim down is again part of it.  He looks good w/o the extra weight.  They could have also been fitting him with smaller clothes and padding to make the weight gain look worse than it really was.  

I had a friend who was on a stem cell transplant list, and because of a rare genetic marker she had, finding a donor was very difficult.  After several months, a donor was found, but while the transplant was successful, the process took a huge toll on her physically and she died from the side effects.  Transplant patients go through a roller coaster of emotions daily.

[JessDVD]

That bridge collapse was the worst CGI I've seen since about 1995.

Where the case fell flat for me was that they didn't really delve into (past a cursory mention) the fact that insurance companies are (I assume) mostly comprised of normal and kind people who have to make tough decisions about what medical care they will and won't cover, so that they can continue to offer reasonably affordable coverage to the majority of people and continue to pay their employees and reimburse doctors and medical facilities. And yeah, some of them just care about the bottom line, but sometimes that means that good people have to make tough choices and insurance companies aren't obliged to cover everything just because that person's story is super sad (Um, like every OTHER person's story isn't super sad? Which was Benny's point, basically, with all the other patients testifying). What I also didn't get was, it wasn't like they had a liver on standby for her but they just needed the 400k to do the surgery so here they are suing. All her winning would have meant was she had the money to pay for the surgery IF there were a liver available for her before she died. I probably would have just had the procedure, arranged a payment plan, and waited for the trial with the equipment people to go through (which she probably would have won), then used the payout to pay off the debt. Or used gofundme. :-)

Plaintiff's lawyer's outburst about "that's what insurance is for!" read like someone in the writers' room recently had a family member die either due to malpractice or inability to afford treatment.

RIP Cable. Where's the case from the families against the builders of the bridge?? 

[Sake614]

@JessDVD I didn't get that either. If there was a liver ready and waiting, then the hospital should have just done the transplant (since they already offered to waive or at least reduce their fee). There are always options for financing and once the lawsuits were resolved, she and her family could have paid the bill. But there was no liver available. And there's no guarantee that there will be a liver available. They also never said where she was on the waiting list. If she's #5000 or even #5, she could (sadly) die long before a match became available. Have they tested her family? Have they asked friends and neighbors to be tested? 

I also thought it was odd how the bridge collapse had nothing to do with the case. And how it wasn't even mentioned again until they discovered that Cable died. I thought sure that was going to be the case of the week. Instead we get an out-of-the-blue insurance lawsuit.

[Dowel Jones]

5 hours ago, Mama No Life said:

2million a month is probably nothing for a firm that is probably sued constantly.

But that's for a trial consulting company (TAC), which would imply that all those lawsuits were going to trial.  That's in addition to any attorneys' fees and expert witness costs.  And that's every single month.  I don't see that being financially sustainable, but that's just me.

[LuvMyShows]

13 hours ago, JessDVD said:

Plaintiff's lawyer's outburst about "that's what insurance is for!" read like someone in the writers' room recently had a family member die either due to malpractice or inability to afford treatment.

What made no sense to me, was that if this had been real, Benny would never have let the plaintiff's lawyer go on and on and on without even trying to object.  We've seen Benny be an objection monster before, but all he did here was complain after the woman had completely finished her spiel.

Also, as sad as the mother's situation was, by Bull giving her the entire $2mil, he is effectively saying that her life is more important than that of all the people at TAC combined, since we have every reason to believe that finances are still an issue for TAC, which could mean TAC going under, which would very negatively affect a lot of people's lives.  He could have given her what she needed, and still had lots left over for his company and his own employees.  He didn't need to personally take a cent of it, if it felt tainted to him, but he could have spread the wealth around to benefit more people.

[FormerMod-a1]

I didn't like giving her the whole $2 million either.  I thought he'd give her $1 million which would have been enough for surgery and recovery expenses and probably even more.

[roundtheworld]

I hadn't watch the show in quite a while and don't think this was an episode to draw me back in.

I don't think patients can even get on the transplant wait list without the approval of a medical board. The bigger issue is her being able to get a liver transplant, the insurance aspect is just a by-product and as mentioned, would really be more an issue of liability of the medical device company and might not have minded them being a monetary target. I just found it an annoying going up against the big mean company while ignoring other people's medical problems and actual limited number of available livers.

[Destiny74]

On 9/29/2018 at 7:46 AM, aquarian1 said:

I didn't like giving her the whole $2 million either.  I thought he'd give her $1 million which would have been enough for surgery and recovery expenses and probably even more.

That what I thought too.  She'd have enough to get a transplant (if a donor liver that matches ever comes up for her) and plenty left over (about $100g) to put back for the kids.  I'm assuming the gift would be taxed...meaning half goes to the govt first.

I am no where near a medical professional but I thought someone can donate partial liver because it kind of "regenerates"?  Had a friend who's mom was going to need to be on a list for liver and she said she'd give her part of hers when it was needed.  Sadly, she passed from something totally unrelated.  My knowledge only comes from what this friend told me.

Edited October 1, 2018 by Destiny74

[Carolina Girl]

On 9/26/2018 at 8:12 AM, mythoughtis said:

I hadn’t thought it was - until they said Cable was on the bridge. Then I thought - why didn’t I recognize her? Thank you, I’m not going crazy after all.  So they couldn’t/wouldn’t  even film her long enough to show her on the bridge.  

That's why I was rather taken aback when I saw what the case of the week was.  I had expected it to be related to the horrible bridge accident.  And dear God, please - why did you have to show me children drowning to start the season?  I didn't even connect it to Cable not showing up until almost halfway through.  Go back, check the beginning of the show again.  But that's not Cable, is it?  Apparently, yes it was.  

[hoopznyo]

All the characters were off to me this episode. Marissa seemed angry throughout (maybe it was the quick marriage). Bull didn't want to be bothered with work while in "recovery" but drummed up a new client/work. The rest of the team was portrayed as very close the earlier seasons but yet Cable not showing up for work -- for weeks -- gets a slight mention and no one seemed concerned. No one thought of the bridge collapse prior to her mother calling?  odd. 

[aguabella]

22 hours ago, Destiny74 said:

That what I thought too.  She'd have enough to get a transplant (if a donor liver that matches ever comes up for her) and plenty left over (about $100g) to put back for the kids.  I'm assuming the gift would be taxed...meaning half goes to the govt first.

I am no where near a medical professional but I thought someone can donate partial liver because it kind of "regenerates"?  Had a friend who's mom was going to need to be on a list for liver and she said she'd give her part of hers when it was needed.  Sadly, she passed from something totally unrelated.  My knowledge only comes from what this friend told me.

Gift tax, if any, is paid by the donor, i.e. not the recipient.

Couldn't Bull pledge to assist, if/when they locate a suitable liver.  His firm requires $$$, too!

On 9/27/2018 at 8:45 AM, Dowel Jones said:

But that's for a trial consulting company (TAC), which would imply that all those lawsuits were going to trial.  That's in addition to any attorneys' fees and expert witness costs.  And that's every single month.  I don't see that being financially sustainable, but that's just me.

Well, preparing for trial is necessary even though many things settle the closer a trial becomesl

[aguabella]

On 10/1/2018 at 7:54 AM, Carolina Girl said:

That's why I was rather taken aback when I saw what the case of the week was.  I had expected it to be related to the horrible bridge accident.  And dear God, please - why did you have to show me children drowning to start the season?  I didn't even connect it to Cable not showing up until almost halfway through.  Go back, check the beginning of the show again.  But that's not Cable, is it?  Apparently, yes it was.  

No big deal but it wasn't Cable.  IIRC, the news report indicated 37 (or 30+) deaths from the bridge accident.

Edited October 3, 2018 by aguabella

[namelesscommenter]

On 9/27/2018 at 8:19 AM, JessDVD said:

What I also didn't get was, it wasn't like they had a liver on standby for her but they just needed the 400k to do the surgery so here they are suing. All her winning would have meant was she had the money to pay for the surgery IF there were a liver available for her before she died. I probably would have just had the procedure, arranged a payment plan, and waited for the trial with the equipment people to go through (which she probably would have won), then used the payout to pay off the debt. Or used gofundme. :-)

Plaintiff's lawyer's outburst about "that's what insurance is for!" read like someone in the writers' room recently had a family member die either due to malpractice or inability to afford treatment.

That's what frustrated me as well. It seems pretty obvious that the equipment manufacturer('s insurance) would be liable for the cost of the transplant. But, livers don't grow on trees and it simply wouldn't be responsible to save 3 QALYs vs. 50 QALYs. Also, doesn't UNOS control the list, so shouldn't she have been disqualified for all but directed transplant?

Normally I'm okay with TV land BS to make the story work, but these plot points were so draining that I found it really hard to focus.

[lh25]

On 10/2/2018 at 10:00 PM, aguabella said:

No big deal but it wasn't Cable.  IIRC, the news report indicated 37 (or 30+) deaths from the bridge accident.

They showed other cars in the water when that car with the family went in.  I assumed Cable was in one of those.

[Emma9]

Bad sign that I'm only just starting to catch up on this one. Mainly because...

On 9/27/2018 at 6:03 AM, Mama No Life said:

Actually I don't like most of the characters. Why do I watch this show?

^that.

 

On 10/3/2018 at 1:53 AM, namelesscommenter said:

Also, doesn't UNOS control the list, so shouldn't she have been disqualified for all but directed transplant?

And this. Especially given that I watched a lot of House over the summer, it was weirding me out that they were acting like the insurance company was the arbiter of who gets organs. (Not, of course, that House is a bastion of medical realism, but...)

Edited October 17, 2018 by Emma9

[sinkwriter]

I hate to say it, but I actually forgot that I watch this show. Not seeing it all summer, I forgot all about it, so this fall, I was trying to remember what shows I watched and which ones I was looking forward to seeing premiere again, and this one never popped into my head. I didn't remember it until yesterday.

 

Bad sign. 

Edited October 20, 2018 by sinkwriter

[Ceindreadh]

On 10/1/2018 at 5:19 PM, hoopznyo said:

All the characters were off to me this episode. Marissa seemed angry throughout (maybe it was the quick marriage). Bull didn't want to be bothered with work while in "recovery" but drummed up a new client/work. The rest of the team was portrayed as very close the earlier seasons but yet Cable not showing up for work -- for weeks -- gets a slight mention and no one seemed concerned. No one thought of the bridge collapse prior to her mother calling?  odd. 

Cable missed a day of work and they couldn't contact her so Danny checked out her apartment.  Within a day or two they have her officially listed as a missing person and Danny goes back to get her laptop to help track her down.  There wasn't much else that any of them could do, expect keep going with the jobs they're being paid to do. 

IIRC, the bridge collapse was in New Jersey, not New York, so maybe it just didn't occur to them that she could have been anywhere near it, especially since the victims appeared to have all been in cars and Cable didn't have a car (they mentioned that she'd hired one).

 

So Bull gives the mother 2million.  That's great.  She can spend 400k getting tested and use the remaining 1.6mill to hire a hitman to bump off everybody on the list ahead of her and then take out somebody with a matching liver.

That is one forked up health system you've got there. 

[SunnyBeBe]

Once again so many issues. Bull announces that motions were filed and they start voir dire in 2 days...well, there are minimum days to give notice of hearing and judges hear motions, you don’t have a jury for that. Pre-trial orders set out deadlines, so no surprises. Omg, it’s frustrating.
 

And, they were confused on the insurance issues. It seemed the woman was going after her health insurance carrier to cover her needed medical bills, but, why not the hospital, doctor, medical equipment company’s liability insurance company? In that case, the liability insurance company has no say so on what it cost for her life saving treatment. They are liable for her damages. The doctor admitted they messed up.  They would likely offer policy limits and let her spend the funds how she wants. She doesn’t have to rely on her health insurance carrier....very convoluted.  The show could be so entertaining if they got their stuff straight. Vent over.

 

Edited March 29, 2020 by SunnyBeBe