Crisis On Infinite Earths 2019: Who Lives, Who Dies, Who Tells Their Story

[Starry]

5 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

If they do go down to 1 earth how will TF cope with not having a new Wells for the next 2 seasons.

I'm sure they'll find a loophole, lol.

12 hours ago, wingster55 said:

I’m guessing the Flash hour will be Barry disappearing for the cliffhanger. 

Iris better be in every single episode. 

Iris better be there for the aftermath of it and/or Barry's return. The new showrunner seems to be invested in the character but considering they didn't write a conclusion to the WestAllen Elseworlds storyline my expectations are low. Their track record isn't good.

I need them to do more with the Supergirl main cast. Aside from Alex, I don't think any of their characters has ever crossed over. Considering that Kara seems to have a relevant part in the Crisis comics I wonder if they are still letting her die but come back like Barry. I just don't want her to get sidelined again. I hope for less Superman and Lois and more Kara, Brainy, etc. I like Tyler's Superman but I don't watch the show for him.

[MarkHB]

3 hours ago, Starry said:

I need them to do more with the Supergirl main cast. Aside from Alex, I don't think any of their characters has ever crossed over.

True.  But, since J'onn didn't crossover in Elseworlds, the Monitor showing up in the season finale specifically to test him with Ma'alefa'ak (the Wikipedia spelling) bodes well for his participation.  Brainy and Nia, I can hope... and since the villains may also be in play I'll hope for Livewire and Psi as well. (I have no idea as to whether any of the Legion would show up.)

So far as Black Lightning goes, I've wondered if the Monitor has had anything to do with the country that was building up its own metahuman battalion, that caused Creepy Guy to conscript Jeff, Anissa and Jen at the end of last season.

[GHScorpiosRule]

12 hours ago, Delphi said:

Actual scene. 

Delphi:  I don't think I care about the crossover this year. 

Cw: br is going to play superman!

Delphi:  intriguing,  but I have YouTube... so..

CW: oh,  we also got Kevin Conroy to play Batman. 

So sign me the hell up for this trainwreck. 

Hah! That was me as well! I will do anything to see/hear the BESTEST EVAH Bruce/Batman on my screen. And he's soooo gonna make everyone else look like playing at amateur hour. And it would be soooooo delicious if Mark Hamill showed up.

10 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Thought: would Kevin Conroy be playing the Bruce Wayne from Kingdom Come?

ETA: Conroy played an older, gruffer Bruce Wayne in Batman Beyond. Here's a scene from Justice League (the animated series) where Old Man Bruce shows his younger self how to interrogate criminals.

I LOVED this episode. Especially the part where Bats is trying to tell Diana he can't be in a relationship cuz, in the end, "I'm a rich kid with issues. LOTS of issues."🤣 But Diana just tears that straw man excuse down. Bats is saved by the proverbial bell. SIGH....♥️💕♥️ @BkWurm1 knows what I mean!

Ahem. What was great about that clip was that old Bruce couldn't believe how "weak" young Bats was when questioning one of the jokerz. Conroy is the ONLY reason I watched that show. Do NOT get me started on that bullshit nonsense with Babs.

[tv echo]

“Arrow” Final Season: Episode 8 Crosses Over, 9 and 10 Provide “Proper Finale,” Producers Say – TCA
By Diane Haithman   August 4, 2019
https://deadline.com/2019/08/arrow-final-season-episode-8-crosses-over-9-and-10-provide-proper-finale-producers-say-tca-1202661047/ 

Quote

Schwartz confirmed guest casting discussions happening across the DC universe but that crossover casting remains incomplete and  producers ere not ready to reveal any more return visits or final casting for Season 8.

After the session, Guggenheim confirmed discussions with DC and Warner Bros. about a Lynda Carter return, but said he did not think that would happen. However, in a discussion with reporters after the session, he complained mildly about rumors spawned by “illegitimate outlet” Cosmic Book News when it announced that Carter as Wonder Woman and Tom Welling’s Superman were definitely cast for Season 8.

“I don’t ever comment on casting, but it always vexes me if an illegitimate outlet just makes up stuff,” he said.

Edited August 5, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Crisis on Infinite Earths Producer Actively Pursuing Smallville Alums
by Meagan Damore – on Aug 04, 2019  
https://www.cbr.com/crisis-infinite-earths-trying-smallville-character-marc-guggenheim/

Quote

Longtime Arrowverse producer Marc Guggenheim is actively seeking a Smallville alum to join the upcoming "Crisis on Infinite Earths" crossover.

"It's such a big part of DC TV history. I would love to have at least one Smallville character in the crossover," he announced at The CW's Television Critics Association press tour panel. "I guess I can say every single day I have some conversation with some casting director or some agent."

Edited August 5, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Even though the source of this spoiler is dubious, there have been a lot of hints on Arrow and from DR that this might happen...

John Stewart’s Green Lantern Will Appear In Crisis On Infinite Earths
By Christian Bone August 5, 2019
https://wegotthiscovered.com/tv/john-stewarts-green-lantern-crisis-infinite-earths/ 

Quote

We Got This Covered has been informed by our sources – the same ones who told us the real Mandarin will be the villain in Shang-Chi, and that Wonder Woman will don her Golden Eagle armor in the sequel, both of which were later confirmed – that David Ramsey will be playing a different version of Diggle from another Earth in the event who will be identified as John Stewart. Fans have been keeping their fingers crossed that all those clues about this over the past year would lead up to something in “Crisis” and, from what we’re hearing, their wish has been granted.

Edited August 5, 2019 by tv echo

[Oreo2234]

Quote

I need them to do more with the Supergirl main cast. Aside from Alex, I don't think any of the characters have ever crossed over. Considering that Kara seems to have a relevant part in the Crisis comics I wonder if they are still letting her die but come back like Barry. I just don't want her to get sidelined again. I hope for less Superman and Lois and more Kara,Brainy etc. I like Tyler's Superman but I don't watch the show for them. 

Actually J'onn, Brainy and maybe James appeared and did some fighting in the Elsewords finale.  They weren't there for long so its easy to forget they were in it. But I agree that they need to do more with the Supergirl main cast (at least include Alex, J'onn and Brainy) instead of just focusing on Superman characters who aren't regulars on the show. The arrowverse writers sideling Kara gets more annoying with each crossover. I wouldn't be surprised if Batwoman and her cast gets more to do. 

[tv echo]

[tv echo]

Again, consider the source...

Lex Luthor Will Appear In Crisis On Infinite Earths
By Sam Plank August 5, 2019
https://wegotthiscovered.com/tv/smallvilles-lex-luthor-crisis-infinite-earths/

Quote

This just keeps getting better and better. The upcoming CW television crossover, “Crisis on Infinite Earths,” is arriving this December and the good news just won’t stop rolling in. The latest? Michael Rosenbaum will have a small cameo in the event as Smallville‘s Lex Luthor. Your squee’ing may now commence.

According to sources close to We Got This Covered – the same sources who told us Viola Davis was returning for The Suicide Squad, and that Taskmaster will be the villain in Black Widow, both of which were later confirmed – Rosenbaum will indeed bring his fan-favorite Lex back, if only for a quick cameo. No details beyond that have been spilled just yet, but hopefully that’ll change, and soon.

[Trini]

9 hours ago, Starry said:

Iris better be there for the aftermath of it and/or Barry's return. The new showrunner seems to be invested in the character but considering they didn't write a conclusion to the WestAllen Elseworlds storyline my expectations are low. Their track record isn't good. 

I have some faith in Wallace, but I only have (low) expectations for the Flash episode. Seeing as how Guggenheim is in charge of this mess, and the conclusion in January is with his shows, I'll be looking for the most of the aftermath for WestAllen in the next Flash episode.

 

3 hours ago, tv echo said:

“I don’t ever comment on casting, but it always vexes me if an illegitimate outlet just makes up stuff,” he said.

Yep. It would be great if these clickbait nobodies stopped getting attention. (Even a A-list director called them out for lying, but yet...) I can do my own speculation, thanks.

[Trini]

3 hours ago, Oreo2234 said:

Actually J'onn, Brainy and maybe James appeared and did some fighting in the Elsewords finale.  They weren't there for long so its easy to forget they were in it.

Yes but that was still the Supergirl episode. The only Supergirl castmember that got to be on other shows was Kara/Benoist.

I do hope that some of the cast get to do more in this crossover. Alex and J'onn especially; and I'd love to see Iris meet James!

[scarynikki12]

@tv echo Jon was the Supergirl panel moderator at Comic Con and all but confirmed that he’d be in Crisis in one way or another so that source got it right. 

[Trini]

12 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

@tv echo Jon was the Supergirl panel moderator at Comic Con and all but confirmed that he’d be in Crisis in one way or another so that source got it right. 

Jon Cryer's Lex was a sure bet to be involved from what we saw from the Supergirl season finale.

[MarkHB]

4 hours ago, tv echo said:

Again, consider the source...

You folks have no idea how vexed I am that We Got This Covered was actually right on the Black Lightning scoop. OTOH, I am ROFL at Guggenheim actually calling Cosmic Book News out as an "illegitimate outlet".

[Trini]

1 hour ago, MarkHB said:

You folks have no idea how vexed I am that We Got This Covered was actually right on the Black Lightning scoop.

Were they, though? They guessed what everyone else guessed was likely to happen anyway. And Cress Williams had already admitted at Comic Con that there were talks about connecting the show to the rest of the Arrowverse. I was annoyed that Cress made it seem like they're legit.

[MarkHB]

5 hours ago, Trini said:

I was annoyed that Cress made it seem like they're legit.

Perception is everything, I'm afraid. But I'm sure soon enough they'll be reporting that the crossover will tie in Agents of Shield from Earth-616 and it will also have Superman fighting Godzilla.

[tv echo]

Edited August 6, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Larger pics of the above-tweeted fake Monitor audition sides (4 pages)...

 

Edited August 6, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Would Jensen Ackles Play Batman Foe Red Hood For The Arrow-verse? Here's What He Told Us
Laura Hurley   August 5, 2019
https://www.cinemablend.com/television/2477629/would-jensen-ackles-play-red-hood-for-the-arrow-verse-heres-what-he-told-us 

Quote

... Many fans have been pulling for Ackles to play Red Hood in live-action ever since he voiced Jason Todd in the 2010 animated movie Batman: Under the Red Hood.

Jensen Ackles spoke with CinemaBlend's Nick Venable at the 2019 TCA Summer Press Tour, and he said this when asked about playing Red Hood again:

"There's certainly a few of those of those characters that I... I mean, obviously the universes – the DC and the Marvel universes – are very large right now in multiple capacities, on television and on screen. I think any opportunity to kind of dip into that from a live-action standpoint would be hard to pass up."

Unsurprisingly, Jensen Ackles didn't spill any details about whether or not he could don the helmet of Red Hood in live-action for the Arrow-verse, but his words are certainly promising about the possibility. Red Hood would certainly be an exciting character for pretty much anybody to bring to live-action.
*  *  *
It's this last casting that really makes the possibility of Jensen Ackles as a live-action Arrow-verse Red Hood feel real. If Kevin Conroy can do it, why not another voice actor? And if Conroy can play an older version of Batman in live-action, why can't Jensen Ackles play an older version of Red Hood?

Edited August 6, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

[tv echo]

Sounds like it won't be in the crossover (unless MG is hiding that)...

Arrow Boss Teases Series Finale, Whether Green Lantern Will Appear
Is Diggle getting a Green Lantern ring?
By Chris E. Hayner  August 5, 2019
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/arrow-boss-teases-series-finale-whether-green-lant/1100-6468894/ 

Quote

There's been plenty of fan speculation about John Diggle (David Ramsey) ending up as the Green Lantern in the Arrow-verse. Then, in 2018's Elseworlds crossover event, the show directly referenced a possible connection between the two characters. While the chances of a full-blown Green Lantern series starring Ramsey are slim at best, Arrow isn't done having a bit of fun with the possibility.

"We've got we have a very specific moment in mind for the series finale, that our hope is it'll be satisfying to the fans, without getting me in trouble with my bosses at Warner Brothers," Guggenheim teased of Diggle's connection to Green Lantern.

[tv echo]

Jim Lee Fought For Brandon Routh to Play Superman Again in Crisis on Infinite Earths Crossover [Exclusive]
Posted on Monday, August 5th, 2019 by Fred Topel
https://www.slashfilm.com/crisis-on-infinite-earths-crossover/

Quote

At The CW’s party for the Television Critics Association, Arrow producer and crossover supervisor Marc Guggenheim spoke with /Film. Find out how he wrangled Routh back into the Superman costume, how the crossover relates to Superman Returns, and Guggenheim’s thoughts on a classic Supergirl actor.
*  *  *
Guggenheim said it was legendary comic book artist Jim Lee who helped him include Routh as an alternate Superman. 

“It’s never legal wrangling,” Guggenheim said. “It’s the usual dance we do when we’re trying to access characters from the DC universe outside of the Arrowverse. So it’s just conversations. I will tell you, Jim Lee was incredibly instrumental in those conversations. It’s funny, I don’t think of it as legal wrangling so much as diplomacy and Jim was amazing, and such a gentleman about it, a real advocate for the shows, a real advocate for the studios. I have to say it was really painless.”
*  *  *
Superman Returns was a divisive-enough Superman movie that they decided not to make a sequel. Instead came the reboot Man of Steel. I personally think they had time to make two more Brandon Routh movies and still could have rebooted in 2013. So seeing Routh play Superman again could be the sequel some of us have always wanted. Guggenheim was reluctant to call Routh’s crossover appearance a sequel. 

“I don’t know if it’s for me to say,” Guggenheim said. “We’re picking up so many years after the events of that movie, maybe a coda is a better word than sequel."
*  *  *
Helen Slater, the star of the original movie Supergirl, plays Supergirl’s (Melissa Benoist) adopted Earth mother on The CW. As long as there are infinite earths where movie actors reprise their superhero roles, Guggenheim sounds open to asking Slater to play an alternate Supergirl along with Benoist.

“I feel like at this point, we’ve covered the waterfornt in terms of we’ve talked about every person who’s been in a DC property in live-action, and with Kevin [Conroy] in animation,” Guggenheim said. “Everything is possible. I happen to love the Supergirl movie and I remember the first time I saw it. I would love for her to reprise her role. We’re feeling out a lot of our various parameters in terms of what can we afford and what do we have story for? Can this be a cameo? Can this be a full on story? It’s just this ongoing conversation. we started the crossover earlier than we ever have precisely so we could have these conversation.”

Edited August 6, 2019 by tv echo

[Trini]

There's probably going to be another comic cover homage for this, right? Since they already used the most famous COIE cover for Supergirl, I'm thinking this one is the next best choice (the other covers are either too busy, or don't feature enough characters, IMO):

It'd be a relatively simple way to show all the characters involved.

[tennisgurl]

On 8/5/2019 at 4:46 AM, Starry said:

I hope for less Superman and Lois and more Kara, Brainy, etc. I like Tyler's Superman but I don't watch the show for him.

That would be great, with the exception of Alex and Kara their cast has been really underused in the cross overs. Although Winn got some of the best material he had gotten in ages playing a hard ass freedom fighter version of himself on Earth X, so maybe they will show up as alternate versions of themselves if they dont want to add more characters from every show beside the big iconic characters like Superman and Lois? I hope that they dont go that way though, the Arrowverse was built on awesome but often less recognizable characters and they should celebrate that, not just turn into the Superman/Batman show the way DC itself tends to do.

[Primal Slayer]

While they dont do it often, I want these types of crossovers to be the opportunity to see cast members interact who don't normally interact with one another, get new dynamics, and not play it safe. This should be a pretty big crossover for Kara given what goes on in the source material where she gets to outshine everyone else.

[MarkHB]

12 hours ago, tv echo said:

And if Conroy can play an older version of Batman in live-action, why can't Jensen Ackles play an older version of Red Hood?

Because Jason Todd needs to get back in his damn grave and stay there! I've never read Under the Red Hood partly so I can continue to ignore his supposed survival.

[Primal Slayer]

CW probably wants to save Red Hood for Batwoman and since he isnt that well known outside of comics keeping him out of Crisis makes sense.

[tv echo]

Arrow Final Season: Stephen Amell Reveals If Emily Bett Rickards Will Return (Full Interview)
Published on Aug 6, 2019, by Entertainment Tonight
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ajjvekheVM

-- About the COIE crossover, SA: "The only thing that I can tease is that there are no rules. And I'm playing two characters... I saw that character's costume today. It was great... No, I didn't try it on. I saw concept art for something that I'm going to be doing in the crossover." Leanne Aguilera: "Is it a character that we know?" SA: "Nope. Never appeared on screen before."

[Trini]

It'll be fun to see characters from other DC adaptations in this crossover, but I also hope that we get to see the return of characters from other Earths that have already been shown. I'm thinking Earth-2, Earth-3, and 'Gypsy's Earth' from the Flash; Earth-X characters, too.

And also characters we haven't seen in a while, like (somehow) Ronnie Raymond, or original Vixen.

[jhlipton]

On 8/4/2019 at 9:51 AM, Velocity23 said:

Crossover dates

https://www.spoilertv.com/2019/08/the-cw-announces-dates-and-featured.html

SUPERGIRL – Sunday, December 8, 2019 (8:00-9:00pm ET/PT)

BATWOMAN – Monday, December 9, 2019 (8:00-9:00pm ET/PT)

THE FLASH – Tuesday, December 10, 2019 (8:00-9:00pm ET/PT)

ARROW – Tuesday, January 14, 2020 (8:00-9:00pm ET/PT)

DC’S LEGENDS OF TOMORROW – Tuesday, January 14, 2020 (9:00-10:00pm ET/PT)
 

I'm glad to see that LoT is last, so I can once again skip the other shows!

[scarynikki12]

17 minutes ago, jhlipton said:

I'm glad to see that LoT is last, so I can once again skip the other shows!

I wouldn’t get my hopes up since LOT typically ends the crossovers but the focus is nearly always on Oliver and Barry. They’ll (presumably) get good stuff the rest of the time at least. 

[Trini]

2 hours ago, jhlipton said:

I'm glad to see that LoT is last, so I can once again skip the other shows!

Ha! I'm tempted to skip the last two parts myself, but I know I'll want to watch the resolution - for certain characters. At least they're airing on the same night.

[BaggythePanther]

6 hours ago, jhlipton said:

I'm glad to see that LoT is last, so I can once again skip the other shows!

If you only care about Legends then there's really no reason to watch the crossover. Aside from Brandon Routh I doubt anyone else will get much to do. 

I preferred the way they did Crisis on Earth-X where they just made a four hour movie, with little regard for what show was airing what segment. 

[MarkHB]

8 hours ago, BaggythePanther said:

I preferred the way they did Crisis on Earth-X where they just made a four hour movie, with little regard for what show was airing what segment. 

I think this will likely be similar, except that some cameos may only appear in specific shows, like Burt Ward on Batwoman.

[jhlipton]

15 hours ago, BaggythePanther said:

If you only care about Legends then there's really no reason to watch the crossover. Aside from Brandon Routh I doubt anyone else will get much to do. 

I might watch anyway, just to see what happens.

[scarynikki12]

15 hours ago, BaggythePanther said:

Aside from Brandon Routh I doubt anyone else will get much to do. 

Sara should have some good stuff as well since White Canary is referenced in Iris’ future article and they know they’ll get some awesome action out of Caity.

[BaggythePanther]

3 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

Sara should have some good stuff as well since White Canary is referenced in Iris’ future article and they know they’ll get some awesome action out of Caity.

Touché. It’ll probably be the only good fight scene she’ll have all season. 😕

I’m curious about how involved Black Lightning will be and if Thunder and Lightning will come too. I d love to see everyone’s expressions when they find out that Supergirl is real.

[Sakura12]

1 hour ago, BaggythePanther said:

Touché. It’ll probably be the only good fight scene she’ll have all season. 😕

I’m curious about how involved Black Lightning will be and if Thunder and Lightning will come too. I d love to see everyone’s expressions when they find out that Supergirl is real.

Probably since last season, Sara's only good fight scene was when she was on Arrow. 

Sara was featured a lot in the previous crossovers the Legends were invited too. So hopefully she gets something to do since she was originally an Arrow character. She should get a final fighting side by side with Oliver scene. 

[legaleagle53]

6 hours ago, BaggythePanther said:

Touché. It’ll probably be the only good fight scene she’ll have all season. 😕

I’m curious about how involved Black Lightning will be and if Thunder and Lightning will come too. I d love to see everyone’s expressions when they find out that Supergirl is real.

The Earth-1 heroes DO know that Supergirl is real. She's been to their Earth several times, and it was Barry who introduced her to them. And Alex was Sara's last one-night stand before Ava came along.

Edited August 9, 2019 by legaleagle53

[BaggythePanther]

7 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

The Earth-1 heroes DO know that Supergirl is real. She's been to their Earth several times, and it was Barry who introduced her to them. And Alex was Sara's last one-night stand before Ava came along.

I know the Earth-1 heroes know Supergirl, but is Black Lightning on Earth-1? They haven’t specified what Earth he’s on yet. And even if he is on Earth-1, he, Thunder and Lightning weren’t around for the past crossovers, so they missed all those interactions. Whenever they mention Supergirl or Vixen on BL it always seems like they’re just referring to comic book characters, but they’ve never confirmed whether or not Supergirl is real.

[tv echo]

-- SA: "[Grant Gustin] is my favorite person as a guest star to work with. I love working with him. I actually have a pitch that I pitched to our writer last night about Oliver and Barry's last interaction. I hope it happens... And also it's been really, really fun just watching Grant grow into, you know, such an awesome leadership role. And, um, again, by being first, like, I'm sort of like the de facto captain of the ship. But when I'm gone, he will be, and he is more than capable."

Edited August 9, 2019 by tv echo

[Starry]

I think it'd be easier if the Black Lightning characters weren't on Earth-1. They can't be on Earth-1 and not know about Supergirl being real when she helped the other heroes defeat aliens among other things.

[Oreo2234]

Quote

I prefer the way they did Crisis on Earth-X where they just did a four hour movie, with little regard for what show was airing what segment. 

I don't see how they can come close to doing a big story like Crisis on Infinite Earths justice if they aren't doing it that way. 

Edited August 11, 2019 by Oreo2234

[Trini]

7 hours ago, Starry said:

On another note, since some of you mentioned Oliver&Iris it's time for me to be bitter about missed opportunities. The best thing about Oliver&Iris are Barry's reactions any time Iris mentions Oliver's attractiveness to mess/flirt with him. I didn't care about Elseworlds because from Iris' perspective that wasn't Oliver, he rebuffed her and it was painful to watch. Again, Barry's reactions were the best thing about the whole situation.

IMO it would be nice if they cared to include one scene/conversation that doesn't boil down to "Oliver is Iris' celebrity crush but she doesn't want Barry to become like him". I don't think Oliver sees Iris as anything more than the woman Barry is in love with. She may as well be non-existent to him. I don't expect them to be like Barry&Felicity or even Iris&Felicity but I need something ( I don't mean anything romantic ) to show that Iris and Oliver acknowledge and even respect each other as people. If I have to think of Oliver as one of Barry's BFFs, if I have to believe that Iris and Felicity are close enough for the latter to attend Iris' bachelorette party and confide in her about her husband then it's a shame that they don't care to give Iris&Oliver anything more meanigful to complete the WestAllen/Olicity "square".

*sniff*  Someone else who cares about the love square!

Iris/Oliver is more of a crack!ship for me (yay! for the crossover making that canon), but I totally agree with you. After setting up the 'low-key' Barry/Felicity/Oliver triangle, and then having Iris attracted to Oliver, there should have been some type of acknowledgement between Iris and Oliver (or specifically Oliver to Iris), and Elseworlds would have been a good time to do that.

But seeing as how Iris only exists on Arrow  when absolutely necessary (and sometimes not even then), they never even hinted at any relationship. (And no, I don't mean romantic either.) Which is weird since Guggenheim, etc., aren't afraid to have Oliver associated with various women, but they make an exception here. Hmmmmm....

[Featherhat]

I certainly wouldn't mind if we had got more of what Iris and Oliver think of each other beyond him being Iris's celebrity crush and her saying he's oh so infectiously dark and her being Barry's LI/crush that Oliver once told Barry to forget about because "guy's like us don't get the girl" What heroes/main characters, Oliver? 🙄

I guess it just wasn't important to them beyond what they already had. It took them long enough to write any Iris/Felicity interaction beyond saying hello, and that's only because they needed another bridesmaid at the wedding. I did enjoy their storyline saving Star Labs/Kara together before the double wedding stuff. Gun bump! Sigh. People commented that the wedding in the park looked like a poly commitment ceremony presided over by their friend and I think they'd have been okay with that. 😉

20 minutes ago, Trini said:

But seeing as how Iris only exists on Arrow  when absolutely necessary (and sometimes not even then), they never even hinted at any relationship. (And no, I don't mean romantic either.) Which is weird since Guggenheim, etc., aren't afraid to have Oliver associated with various women, but they make an exception here. Hmmmmm....

I think Iris's lack of being in many of the crossovers is part of it, probably because she isn't costumed or do tech support (previously) and is put on the shelf just labelled "Barry's perfect LI" so not used for crossovers. Oliver has had WOC love Interests and "associated" with others in various longterm capacities. I guess one of the reasons might be they didn't want to have people think he's in the slightest bit interested in Barry's girlfriend/wife, hence both he and Barry freaking out about Oliver being in bed with Iris in different ways. Though it's not like he's ever had much one on one interaction with Caitlin either. I think the writers are strictly Oliver/Barry for The Flash in most crossovers. 

8 hours ago, Starry said:

The less optimistic ones want them to revisit the kiss so that their headcanons about Caitlin silently pining over Barry can become canon, it doesn't matter if he rejects her.

Why would you want your favourite character to be pining over something that happened 5 years ago that's never going to happen again? Fair enough if pining is part of the story but at this point it's definitely not and would make the character look a bit pathetic, especially when she's mourned a husband and dated other people seriously during that time.

[Trini]

1 hour ago, Featherhat said:

I think Iris's lack of being in many of the crossovers is part of it, probably because she isn't costumed or do tech support (previously) and is put on the shelf just labelled "Barry's perfect LI" so not used for crossovers.

If they wanted her to crossover more, they could find reasons. (They do that with all sorts of random characters/actors already.) But even when she does, they haven't done anything.
 

1 hour ago, Featherhat said:

I guess one of the reasons might be they didn't want to have people think he's in the slightest bit interested in Barry's girlfriend/wife,

I don't think that would be such a bad thing? But it doesn't even have to be like that at all. There's friendship shown between Barry/Oliver, Barry/Felicity, Felicity/Iris, but next to nothing with Iris/Oliver? And to me Caitlin is in a separate category since she isn't a lead; so not a similar situation.

It's not something I'm losing sleep over, but it's glaring how Iris is ignored by Arrow in particular. And since @Starry said it better:

11 hours ago, Starry said:

IMO it would be nice if they cared to include one scene/conversation that doesn't boil down to "Oliver is Iris' celebrity crush but she doesn't want Barry to become like him". I don't think Oliver sees Iris as anything more than the woman Barry is in love with. She may as well be non-existent to him. I don't expect them to be like Barry&Felicity or even Iris&Felicity but I need something ( I don't mean anything romantic ) to show that Iris and Oliver acknowledge and even respect each other as people.

[Featherhat]

5 hours ago, Trini said:

If they wanted her to crossover more, they could find reasons. (They do that with all sorts of random characters/actors already.) But even when she does, they haven't done anything.
 

I don't think that would be such a bad thing? But it doesn't even have to be like that at all. There's friendship shown between Barry/Oliver, Barry/Felicity, Felicity/Iris, but next to nothing with Iris/Oliver? And to me Caitlin is in a separate category since she isn't a lead; so not a similar situation.

I don't think it would be such a bad thing at all if they had some sort of on screen dynamic that isn't Iris crushing on him whilst he hides behind Felicity (S1 crossover) but for whatever reason it's not deemed important. There could have been a lot more in Elseworlds but the Big Thing they wanted in that was Barry/Oliver and "Oliver is so dark he has to promise to sacrifice himself to save white hats Barry and Kara." Which Iris (and everyone else) did contribute to. Sigh. 

They could certainly find reasons if they wanted her to crossover more, I completely agree but again it wasn't deemed a priority partly because she's neither a costumed hero or scientist and in S1 not in the know. And I also thought it was part of the "WestAllen is gold standard/meant to be lets not bother to write for them, just put them in the valuables cabinet so we can look and talk about them" schtick they had/have going. 

[ursula]

2 hours ago, Featherhat said:

it wasn't deemed a priority partly because she's neither a costumed hero or scientist and in S1 not in the know. 

Only they legit invented DCTV Lois Lane, who's neither a costumed hero or a scientist, for Elseworlds.... 

They didn't let Iris crossover because she's Black. 

[adora721]

9 hours ago, ursula said:

Only they legit invented DCTV Lois Lane, who's neither a costumed hero or a scientist, for Elseworlds.... 

 They didn't let Iris crossover because she's Black. 

And Lois is coming back, too.

Plus look at how they've treated James Olsen in the crossovers, and he's the male lead of "Supergirl." It's about their color; that's why Iris and James are treated poorly or exclused from the crossovers. Even Martian Manhunter is given short shrift in the crossovers and he's even more powerful than Kara or Superman. Cisco's been getting less to do in them as well. It's never been about powers, costumes, or who's a tech or scientist. It's racial bias, pure and simple.

[Trini]

11 hours ago, ursula said:

Only they legit invented DCTV Lois Lane, who's neither a costumed hero or a scientist, for Elseworlds.... 

Not to mention writing in a completely superfluous character (not a scientist or superhero) that didn't match with comic canon at all just to give Amell's wife a cameo; so yeah.
 

14 hours ago, Featherhat said:

And I also thought it was part of the "WestAllen is gold standard/meant to be lets not bother to write for them, just put them in the valuables cabinet so we can look and talk about them" schtick they had/have going.  

That's not their schtick, but yes, that is how Guggenheim treats them in the crossovers, which is the problem. And the last two crossovers in particular had a WestAllen arc, but still sidelined Iris, so that's not it either.

Edited August 12, 2019 by Trini