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Crisis On Infinite Earths 2019: Who Lives, Who Dies, Who Tells Their Story

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Welcome to the discussion topic for the three-way DC-verse crossover coming your way in December 2018! This is for discussion and speculation about the crossover only.  Spoilers will be shared freely so enter at your own risk. 

Things to be aware of:

1) This is NOT another Mind Your Surroundings so any non-crossover talk will be removed. 

For example:

-We know Batwoman is in the crossover.  If she shows up on Arrow, Flash, or Supergirl pre-crossover, it's off-limits.  Talk about it in the show's individual spoiler thread.

-We know Gotham City is in the crossover.  If anyone on Arrow, Flash, or Supergirl visits the city pre-crossover, it's off-limits.  Talk about it in the show's individual spoiler thread.

-If spoilers reveal that Diggle gets doused with magic and grows wings for five minutes during the episode before the crossover, it's off-limits.  Talk about it in the Arrow spoiler thread. 

-If spoilers reveal that the Flash 100th episode, which airs before the crossover, is just Barry singing and dancing around Central City, it's off-limits.  Talk about it in the Flash spoiler thread.

-If spoilers reveal that one's of Winn's recurring episodes includes him coming back to National City at the end of the episode before the crossover and narrowly misses seeing Kara who has left for Earth Prime, it's off-limits.  Talk about it in the Supergirl spoiler thread.

-If there's any indication that Diggle's wings, Barry's theatrics, and Winn's return will have anything to do with the crossover, then you may include it in this discussion. 

2) You may be wondering why this thread is in the Legends Of Tomorrow forum.  Two reasons: 1) your mods thought it would be fun and, 2) LOT's absence from the crossover means its forum is neutral territory. 

As always, remember to be civil to your fellow posters.  There's nothing wrong with total agreement, total disagreement, and everything in between.

The mods are going to be strict about this so please keep this in mind before you submit your posts.

Enjoy!

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2 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

The crossover has a little shift in schedule.

I'm...not sure why they switched The Flash and Supergirl's timeslots at all, especially since it technically makes no difference since it's a crossover.

Yeah, I'm really surprised they moved Flash.  This will be the first time the show has ever been moved. My guess -- maybe the network thinks it needs The Flash's ratings for Sunday. It did start 3 of the 4 crossover events so far.

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24 minutes ago, BeautifulFlower said:

I would think so. I can't imagine The Flash starting it and it opens up in another city. I'm more curious into how they encounter Batwoman. What brings them to Gotham?

What I'm concerned about, is who/what could be a 'Batwoman-level' villain/threat, that would also require the skills of Flash and Green Arrow?

Even with it starting on The Flash, I think they could have the initial setting anywhere, since it's The Crossover Event.

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1 hour ago, Trini said:

What I'm concerned about, is who/what could be a 'Batwoman-level' villain/threat, that would also require the skills of Flash and Green Arrow?

Even with it starting on The Flash, I think they could have the initial setting anywhere, since it's The Crossover Event.

More like what kind of threat requires Batwoman to need help from Flash and Supergirl? They're the ones with superpowers who are teaming up with her as well. The threat has to be real big for Batwoman to need help from a speedster and an alien.

No matter what, Barry and Kara being there will completely over shadow Kate.

Also, I hope this crossover doens't have Iris in just The Flash part.

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23 minutes ago, BeautifulFlower said:

More like what kind of threat requires Batwoman to need help from Flash and Supergirl? They're the ones with superpowers who are teaming up with her as well. The threat has to be real big for Batwoman to need help from a speedster and an alien.

Gah! Flash and Supergirl, that's what I meant.

I'm thinking that either a) Batwoman goes to Green Arrow for help, and he involves Flash and Supergirl; or b) maybe the villain/threat is connected to metas/STAR Labs, and that's how Flash gets involved.

The real trick is how they get Supergirl involved. It'd be nice if some of the action could take place on Earth-38, and more of the Supergirl  cast could be part of it.

Quote

No matter what, Barry and Kara being there will completely over shadow Kate.

I'm sure they'll have a big moment (or several) for her. This is supposed to be her big intro that leads to her own show.

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18 hours ago, Trini said:

Gah! Flash and Supergirl, that's what I meant.

I'm thinking that either a) Batwoman goes to Green Arrow for help, and he involves Flash and Supergirl; or b) maybe the villain/threat is connected to metas/STAR Labs, and that's how Flash gets involved.

The real trick is how they get Supergirl involved. It'd be nice if some of the action could take place on Earth-38, and more of the Supergirl  cast could be part of it.

It must be one hell of a threat...

Tyler Hoechlin is guest starring. They're bringing in Superman and (at long last) Lois Lane.

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Superman too?!!! And he's going to be in all 3? Okay, I need more detail. How big is this threat that Batwoman needs to be teamed up with Superman and Supergirl, and Flash? Is it doomsday? Are they going to do Crisis on Infinite Earths, and all their earths combine.?

Also, I would love for Iris and Lois to have some scenes. Also, you can't be in Gotham and not have Vicki Vale be involve. Think about it Kara, Iris, Lois, and Vicki doing journalism together or at least hanging out.

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Hmm, so are they introducing Lois Lane in the crossover, or will it be sooner on Supergirl?  I'm hoping she shows up on Supergirl first.

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This is making me wonder if the crossover isn’t on Kara’s Earth. I can picture scenarios that would involve Kara and Clark coming to Earth Prime and working alongside Kate, but not one that includes Lois. Traveling to Earth 38 would also explain the lack of Legends since they don’t have Earth to Earth technology. 

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2 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

This is making me wonder if the crossover isn’t on Kara’s Earth. I can picture scenarios that would involve Kara and Clark coming to Earth Prime and working alongside Kate, but not one that includes Lois. Traveling to Earth 38 would also explain the lack of Legends since they don’t have Earth to Earth technology. 

Have they ever explicitly said that the Waverider can’t jump from Earth to Earth? I know they’ve never done it but if Cisco can design a portal jumper in the 21st century there’s no reason why time ships from the future can’t also have that technology. However, this crossover is already getting crowded so I can see why Legends bowed out.

Having the crossover take place on Kara’s Earth makes sense to me because they’ve been making Batman references for a while but supposedly Batwoman was going to be closely associated Arrow. 

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12 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

This is making me wonder if the crossover isn’t on Kara’s Earth. I can picture scenarios that would involve Kara and Clark coming to Earth Prime and working alongside Kate, but not one that includes Lois. Traveling to Earth 38 would also explain the lack of Legends since they don’t have Earth to Earth technology. 

This makes sense so it probably won't happen that way!

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It would make sense to take place on Earth 38 and for this to be a tighter crossover If Barry/Oliver crossover then you wouldnt be getting EVERYONE to show up since thats to much work.

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I figured we’d have seen them deal with their own doppelgängers if they had the technology to jump Earths. Plus Jax was surprised to learn about multiple Earths last crossover and I assume that he’d have known if the ship could do it since he was always fixing it. 

Now that the idea’s occurred to me I’m actively hoping they visit Earth 38.

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From Deadline's article:

Quote

Hoechlin’s Superman will appear in all three episodes.


Well, if Superman -and probably Earth-38- will be such an integral part of this year's crossover story, now I'm more confused as to why they switched the Flash and Supergirl timeslots.

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ugh. Don't get me wrong, I love Superman and like TH's Superman but Supergirl came to a halt when they introduced him because they couldn't not faun over him and the fact that he made an actual appearance. No Legends, introducing Batwoman, Superman and Lois Lane. It's sounding more like the intro crossover with the "stupid chicken hawk people" and Vandal Savage the creepy/greasy than the infinitely better Crisis on Earth X or even the Dominators. 

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 This is definitely odd.  At some point I fully expect them to do Crisis on Infinite (and by Infinite I mean 53) Earths but I don't think this is it and would expect the Legends to be involved in that.  Maybe Batwoman has a doppelganger on Earth-38 who's a supervillain and they need Earth-1 Batwoman to stop her.

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I've just caught up on the news that there will be no Legends in the crossover. Very disappointed. It's the only CW DC Show I watch. And I'm not sure the appeal of Gotham is enough to make me want to tune in and care.

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EXCLUSIVE: Arrowverse Crossover Breakdown For Lois Lane!
By Andy Behbakht - August 28, 2018
http://www.thathashtagshow.com/2018/08/exclusive-arrowverse-crossover-lois-lane/

Quote

That Hashtag Show is proud to reveal the breakdown of this version of Lois as casting is currently underway. The show is looking to cast a Caucasian woman in her early 30s as Lois Lane. Described as the daughter of US General Sam Lane, Lois is a tenacious, righteous and stubborn reporter who will go to any length to get the story and almost never fails. The breakdown reveals that she will appear in The Flash and Supergirl episodes of the crossover event, meaning that the Arrow portion won’t feature her.

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51 minutes ago, shantown said:

Has there been any word that with Lois showing up that we'll get to see Lucy Lane again?

I’d love that. I’d love to see Lucy again but I think they’re doine with the character. 

Lois only being in the bookend episodes has me back to thinking it’s set on Earth Prime. Lois will probably see Clark off and then welcome him home. 

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2 hours ago, Starry said:

Is this crossover another three hour movie like the last one?

They haven't said yet. But I would hope so, since I think that format worked well last time.

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I think it's a good sign that they delayed it a week, so they could deliberately miss the Flash's Episode 100. But even if it does work as a solid movie, it'll be shorter than last year since the Legends won't be playing.

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2 hours ago, MarkHB said:

I think it's a good sign that they delayed it a week, so they could deliberately miss the Flash's Episode 100. But even if it does work as a solid movie, it'll be shorter than last year since the Legends won't be playing.

Makes me wonder how big a production they have planned for the Flash 100th, and how big a production they have planned for the crossover.

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Audition video for the role of "Lon-el" in the "ARROW/FLASH/SUPERGIRL CROSSOVER" that was posted by actor Ty Olsson (both audition scenes appear to be shared with Superman)...

Ty Olsson “Arrow-Flash-Supergirl”
Posted: Sep. 4, 2018, by Ty Olsson

Audition Scene 1:
Reader (off-screen): "I''m not going to let you destroy the world."
Ty Olsson: "This world's yellow sun gives you great power, Kal-El. But you would need far, far greater to permit me to do anything."
Reader: "The Earth is under my protection."
TO: "As charming a notion as that is, you are mistaken in two key respects. Firstly, I am not the author of this world's demise."
Reader: "You brought the monster -"
TO: "And second, you think this world is special."
Reader: "You can't just allow billions of people to die."
TO: "Your protest shows your lack of perception, Kal-El. For all your super hearing and x-ray vision, you are both deaf and blind. You speak of 'billions' as if that number is meant to awe me. I deal in the infinite, Kal-El."
Reader: "It doesn't matter. Life is life."
TO: "And where is that philosophy when you trample an ant hill? You think this world is one of 52 parallel Earths."
Reader: "Earths I will protect."
TO: "You can't! The number is far, far greater, Kal-El. You speak of billions of people. I speak of trillions of Earths, as many as grains of sand on a beach that stretches to eternity. Do you see? Do you see now how blind you've been? How naive. And in this profound ignorance lies your profound impotence. If you are this world's only protector, then it has my pity."

Audition Scene 2:
TO: "Kal-El. You seem distressed."
Reader (off-screen): "Don't mock me, Lon-el."
TO: "Not my intention. But clearly I'm having difficulty hiding my satisfaction."
Reader: "Fine, you were right. I'm here to negotiate."
TO: "What makes you think there's a bargain to be struck? Your world is already at its end."
Reader: "There's always a way. There's always hope."
TO: "For one whose whole planet was already destroyed, your optimism is impressive. And now, with your adopted planet facing a similar fate, your naivete in the face of the apocalypse is almost admirable."
Reader: "You brought that monster here. You can stop it."
TO: "And what do I get in return? You said you came to negotiate, Kal-El. On Krypton, a bargain is one thing given in exchange for another. Or is it somehow different here? Hmm?"
Reader: "What do you want?"
TO: "Oh, I want many things, Kal-El. Chaos. Entropy. The multi-verse ripped asunder. But really, it's not a matter of what I want, but a matter of what you're prepared to give."

ETA: It appears that this video was made private some time after I watched/transcribed it.

Edited by tv echo
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Hmm -- so they really ARE doing their version of Crisis on Infinite Earths this year.  I can see why the Legends aren't part of the crossover, since they really don't belong to any one Earth because they exist outside of the time-stream.

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That’s a little less true this season.

Spoiler

Nate will be spending part of the season in 2018. And possibly working at the Time Bureau.

Plus whenever the Legends get around to returning to the main timeline they’ll be really confused.

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I imagine their not involved because of the situation entirely.   Plot wise they can't be involved or they'd be the focus,  of all the shows its their job to stop stuff like this from happening,  so if they aren't involved the big 3 plus Superman can be center stage and let the ugly stepchild sit this one out. 

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Hmm; so are they finally going to attempt to merge the universes? I can see how that might make it easier for future crossovers (big or small), but I think collapsing the multiverse could limit story possibilities.

---

Two additional characters being cast, according to The Hashtag Show.

"Dr. Kern" sounds like Scarecrow to me, but there are so many evil doctors in comics, it's hard to narrow it down! But Gotham is already doing Scarecrow, so maybe not. Whoever it is, it's Batwoman's villain. The description for "Lon-El" doesn't sound like a Kryptonian. And if they're doing Crisis on Infinite Earths, it sounds closer to Anti-Monitor, maybe? [From my skimming of wikipedia....]

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7 hours ago, Trini said:

Hmm; so are they finally going to attempt to merge the universes? I can see how that might make it easier for future crossovers (big or small), but I think collapsing the multiverse could limit story possibilities.

---

Two additional characters being cast, according to The Hashtag Show.

"Dr. Kern" sounds like Scarecrow to me, but there are so many evil doctors in comics, it's hard to narrow it down! But Gotham is already doing Scarecrow, so maybe not. Whoever it is, it's Batwoman's villain. The description for "Lon-El" doesn't sound like a Kryptonian. And if they're doing Crisis on Infinite Earths, it sounds closer to Anti-Monitor, maybe? [From my skimming of wikipedia....]

I'd be interested to see how closely they follow that storyline if that is indeed what they're doing, since 

Spoiler

Flash and Supergirl both died during Crisis on Infinite Earths.

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8 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

I'd be interested to see how closely they follow that storyline if that is indeed what they're doing, since 

  Hide contents

Flash and Supergirl both died during Crisis on Infinite Earths.

If they are doing that storyline,

Spoiler

... I think at least one of those two are going to bite it.... and then get resurrected. Probably through time-travel shenanigans. Both Supergirl and Flash have time-traveled, so the option is there. Or maybe Superman...?

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The Anti-Monitor (sorry Marv, over 30 years later and that's still the lamest villain name ever) isn't so much a "monster" though... he's a giant ugly thing with horrible goals, but he's not really a creature of blind malevolence.  Plus, he didn't have any sort of herald in the comics (Pariah was doomed to witness the destruction of the worlds, but he was horrified each time).  I'm thinking (pure spec) it could be something like Doomsday, which would be more of a "that monster".

 

But it does give credence to the idea that it could be the Earth-1 folks' turn to visit Earth-38.

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Audition video for "Dr. Elias Kern" was posted by actor Jaz Deol (the first audition scene appears to be shared with the character's wife, while the second audition scene appears to be shared with an unidentified villain)...

Dr Elias Kern
Posted: Sep. 3, 2018, by Jaz Deol

Audition Scene 1:
Reader (off-screen): "Elias -"
Jaz Deol: "Just a moment. I need to finish this report."
Reader: "We need to talk."
JD: "Can it wait?"
Reader: "No. I'm leaving you."
JD: "What?"
Reader: "I want a divorce."
JD: "Susan. If this is about -"
Reader: "Please. Don't."
JD: "If this is about -"
Reader: "Don't!"
JD: "If this is about the hours I've been working, I'll scale back. I'll quit. I'll get another job."
Reader: "This isn't about your -"
JD: "I know I have a tendency of burying myself in my work. I"m sorry. I've neglected you and I'm sorry."
Reader: "I don't feel neglected."
JD: "Then why?"
Reader: "You're not a happy man, Elias. You're dark."
JD: "I - I know I've had my issues. I'll go back in therapy. I can't lose you!"
Reader: "I'm here because you already have."
JD: "Susan. Please... I'll change. I'll be better! I'll be whatever you want me to be!"
Reader: "What I want is someone who's not so pathetic."
JD: "Susan. Please. Susan!"

Audition Scene 2:
JD: "This is - what will it do?"
Reader (off-screen): "Whatever you want it to."
JD: "Will it give me my life back?"
Reader: "No. It will give you the means to take back your life."
JD: "I told Susan I'd be anything she'd want me to be. I begged her. I begged."
Reader: "With that, you won't have to beg any more."
JD: "I lowered myself. I debased myself. It was her fault. Susan was a poor influence. Clouded my judgment, made me doubt myself. Acting like that, it was a betrayal. There need to be consequences."
Reader: "I've given you the means to exact whatever vengeance you wish."
JD: "Oh, I'm not talking about vengeance. I'm talking about justice. A balancing of right and wrong. A balancing of scales. A restoration of how things should be. A resetting of the universe on its axis. She will love me. This time, she'll be the one made to beg. This time, everything will be different. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you."

Edited by tv echo

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Another audition video for "Dr. Elias Kern" - this time posted by actor John Reardon (reading the same two audition scenes that are transcribed above for Jaz Deol's audition video)...

John Reardon reading for Dr Kern in Arrow
Posted: September 7, 2018, by Murray Gibson

Edited by tv echo

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On 9/7/2018 at 11:58 AM, tv echo said:

Audition video for "Dr. Elias Kern" was posted by actor Jaz Deol (the first audition scene appears to be shared with the character's wife, while the second audition scene appears to be shared with an unidentified villain)...

Dr Elias Kern
Posted: Sep. 3, 2018, by Jaz Deol

Audition Scene 1:
Reader (off-screen): "Elias -"
Jaz Deol: "Just a moment. I need to finish this report."
Reader: "We need to talk."
JD: "Can it wait?"
Reader: "No. I'm leaving you."
JD: "What?"
Reader: "I want a divorce."
JD: "Susan. If this is about -"
Reader: "Please. Don't."
JD: "If this is about -"
Reader: "Don't!"
JD: "If this is about the hours I've been working, I'll scale back. I'll quit. I'll get another job."
Reader: "This isn't about your -"
JD: "I know I have a tendency of burying myself in my work. I"m sorry. I've neglected you and I'm sorry."
Reader: "I don't feel neglected."
JD: "Then why?"
Reader: "You're not a happy man, Elias. You're dark."
JD: "I - I know I've had my issues. I'll go back in therapy. I can't lose you!"
Reader: "I'm here because you already have."
JD: "Susan. Please... I'll change. I'll be better! I'll be whatever you want me to be!"
Reader: "What I want is someone who's not so pathetic."
JD: "Susan. Please. Susan!"

Audition Scene 2:
JD: "This is - what will it do?"
Reader (off-screen): "Whatever you want it to."
JD: "Will it give me my life back?"
Reader: "No. It will give you the means to take back your life."
JD: "I told Susan I'd be anything she'd want me to be. I begged her. I begged."
Reader: "With that, you won't have to beg any more."
JD: "I lowered myself. I debased myself. It was her fault. Susan was a poor influence. Clouded my judgment, made me doubt myself. Acting like that, it was a betrayal. There need to be consequences."
Reader: "I've given you the means to exact whatever vengeance you wish."
JD: "Oh, I'm not talking about vengeance. I'm talking about justice. A balancing of right and wrong. A balancing of scales. A restoration of how things should be. A resetting of the universe on its axis. She will love me. This time, she'll be the one made to beg. This time, everything will be different. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you."

 

6 hours ago, tv echo said:

Another audition video for "Dr. Elias Kern" - this time posted by actor John Reardon (reading the same two audition scenes that are transcribed above for Jaz Deol's audition video)...

John Reardon reading for Dr Kern in Arrow
Posted: September 7, 2018, by Murray Gibson

I think after comparing both, I prefer John Reardon's reading.  He takes a more subtle approach to the role than Jaz does, which to me makes Dr. Kern all the more dangerous as a villain. It's always the quiet ones you have to watch out for, after all.  Jaz is too stereotypical a villain for my taste -- I can practically see him twirling his mustache and laughing maniacally at the thought of suddenly being handed the God-like power to rewrite reality itself!

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Grimm’s Juliette will be the Arrowverse’s Lois Lane.

Arrowverse Crossover Casts Grimm’s Elizabeth Tulloch as Lois Lane

Quote

It’s a bird! It’s a plane! It’s a Grimm star as Superman’s main squeeze!

Elizabeth (aka Bitsie) Tulloch will play Lois Lane in December’s Arrowverse crossover, TVLine has learned.

****

Tulloch played Grimm‘s veterinarian-turned-hexenbiest Juliette Silverton for six seasons of the NBC supernatural drama. Her other TV work includes Quarterlife, Portlandia, The West Wing and House.

Edited by Starfish35

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MarkHB

This thread is specifically for discussion of Elseworlds, Crisis on Infinite Earths, and speculation and spoilers directly pertaining to them.  Full rules for the thread are here; please read them.  Off-topic posts may be removed.

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