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Crisis On Infinite Earths 2019: Who Lives, Who Dies, Who Tells Their Story

scarynikki12

By scarynikki12
in Legends Of Tomorrow

MarkHB
Message added by MarkHB

This thread is specifically for discussion of Elseworlds, Crisis on Infinite Earths, and speculation and spoilers directly pertaining to them.  Full rules for the thread are here; please read them.  Off-topic posts may be removed.

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Trini

Trini

5 hours ago, RedVitC said:

It's an interesting theory and it's definitely a way around certain things, but I wonder if people might feel cheated by an approach like this even if it did bring changes to the universe. Since Crisis happens, but also not really? And would they have to then do another big crisis on infinite earths crossover in 2024?

Oh they're not afraid to disappoint people. They're already taking a Flash story and making it a 'farewell to Arrow' story.

And again, I've never thought they had to actually do 10 seasons of Flash to do the Crisis teased in Season 1. I do think that they could do another Crisis, but a different one.
 

5 hours ago, RedVitC said:

But maybe somehow the 10 year thing is still the plan?

Maybe. But I don't see the show lasting that long. For the genre, ten years is the exception not the rule.

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BkWurm1
BkWurm1

Aww crap. I was hoping he'd be bored and have moved away from the crossover by next year.  I really don't like the narrow focus on just the leads.  I was willing to put up with it this year but now I'

Starfish35
Starfish35

I’m dying. 🤣 From Tumblr:

Mellowyellow
Mellowyellow

Ahh good old Stephen and his NOPE face reserved for everyone who isn't EBR. At least he doesn't look like he wants to break Iris's arm there! We had a temp LI in S5 and there was a scene where sh

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Trini

Trini

42 minutes ago, Maverick said:

I don't understand how Supernatural has been on as long as it has but there it is.  Flash being on 10 years is possible, if they get decent writers, stop doing full year villains and cut the episode order a bit.  Especially if they use Crisis to reboot the show.  

It's possible. As long as 1) Grant Gustin still wants to do it, 2) CW can't find anything better to top it, and 3) it keeps the character out there while DC/WB tries to get it together with a Flash movie.

tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

From C2E2 in Chicago yesterday (Saturday)...

Marv Wolfman On Crisis On Infinite Earths | C2E2 2019 | SYFY WIRE
Published on Mar 23, 2019, by SYFY WIRE 

 -- On his fave story arc in the COIE comic series, MW: "It's hard to point out which is the favorite story because, you know, it all runs as one story. But, uh, in truth, the two controversial deaths were the most satisfying for me because we made sure that the characters, Supergirl and Flash - spoiler warning, sorry - um, that we dealt with them in a way that the readers would remember and care. A lot of people came back later and said that's the best Supergirl they had read, ah, 'what a shame she had to die.' Well, you know, that's how you got that story. But those two, I was very proud of. But I like the entire story of Criss. It was something I worked on for several years before we finally did it."

WATCH C2E2: MARV WOLFMAN ON WRITING FOR SUPERMAN AND HIS FAVORITE CRISIS STORY
Karama Horne   Mar. 23, 2019
https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/watch-c2e2-marv-wolfman-on-writing-for-superman-and-his-favorite-crisis-story

Quote

One of Wolfman's most famous stories is the Crisis on Infinite Earths miniseries that redefined DC's multiverse series with artist George Perez. When asked to pick his favorite stories out the 12-issue Crisis, Wolfman settled on issues 7 and 8, which featured the deaths of Supergirl and The Flash, respectively.

Edited by tv echo
tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Apparently there's a new book trilogy (I don't know if it has any relation at all to COIE) - this first book goes on sale on Aug. 13, 2019...

Exclusive first look: The Flash joins forces with the Green Arrow in Crossover Crisis
By David Canfield April 04, 2019
https://ew.com/books/2019/04/04/crossover-crisis-flash-green-arrow-preview/

Quote

The following is an excerpt from author Barry Lyga’s The Flash: Green Arrow’s Perfect Shot, the first book in the Crossover Crisis trilogy. (Subsequent books will follow Supergirl, Superman, and the heroes from DC’s Legends of Tomorrow.) When the Green Arrow needs help tracking down a sinister bomber in Star City, speedster Barry Allen is out the door in a flash. But as the Flash saves the day with his friends on Team Arrow, a huge dimensional rift appears over his hometown of Central City — and thousands of refugees with superspeed come pouring out.

Check out the cover, exclusive to EW, above. Green Arrow’s Perfect Shot publishes Aug. 13 and is available for pre-order.
*  *  *
(Read excerpt)

51LS-L6TUBL._SX324_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg 

Edited by tv echo
Trini

Trini

(edited)
6 hours ago, tv echo said:

Apparently there's a new book trilogy (I don't know if it has any relation at all to COIE)

I don't think it does; at least not directly.

These books are usually set in the times that the show doesn't cover. From the excerpt, this one seems to be set right after The Thinker was defeated, and after Diaz is defeated. (It looks like the assumption is that Oliver did not go to prison.) So if anything it's leading up to last year's crossover.

Quote

Pumping Oliver’s hand, Barry widened his smile. “No problem. Always glad to help out, like last year, that thing with Ricardo Diaz.”

Oliver nodded knowingly. Ricardo Diaz had been a drug lord and crime boss who’d targeted Star City for a takeover. Fortunately, Barry had wrapped up his own difficulties with the Thinker in time to run over from Central City and lend a hand.

“That could have played out much differently,” Oliver acknowledged. “I might have even ended up in jail. Thanks for your help then and now.”

Edited by Trini
Read the excerpt again.
Trini

Trini

(edited)

I wonder how much the Crisis crossover story will change (if at all) now that Amell is signed on for season 8 of Arrow (and EBR isn't). I assume that even if Arrow didn't come back, Amell/Oliver would, in some capacity. But now they have a shortened season to set up the crossover, and somehow tie it into Arrow's conclusion.

Edited by Trini
Trini

Trini

With LaMonica Garrett spotted in Vancouver, the Monitor probably will appear in all the Arrow-verse finales to tease the next crossover, right? I don't think there will be much actually happening in whatever end tag scenes they film, except maybe with Arrow, since Oliver made some type of deal with the Monitor.

Trini

Trini

55 minutes ago, BaggythePanther said:

LoT filmed their finale months ago. So either no one noticed that LaMonica Garrett was in town in February or unsurprisingly, the Legends won’t be included in the COIE cliffhanger.

Maybe Legends won't get visit from the Monitor; but I also think if it's just a 30-second end tag, it could be filmed separately (with maybe one cast member?) and edited in.

MarkHB

MarkHB

8 hours ago, Trini said:

Maybe Legends won't get visit from the Monitor; but I also think if it's just a 30-second end tag, it could be filmed separately (with maybe one cast member?) and edited in.

There's no way the Legends won't be in the next Crisis; you don't tease that storyline unless you're prepared to go all in.  In fact, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if COIE is actually the main storyline for each of the shows this fall, even if the actual cross-show appearances are limited.

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Trini

Trini

5 hours ago, MarkHB said:

There's no way the Legends won't be in the next Crisis; you don't tease that storyline unless you're prepared to go all in.  In fact, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if COIE is actually the main storyline for each of the shows this fall, even if the actual cross-show appearances are limited.

Yeah, I think they have to be included this time.

tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Did The Flash Reveal The First Crisis On Infinite Earths Footage?
Laura Hurley   April 17, 2019
https://www.cinemablend.com/television/2470421/did-the-flash-reveal-the-first-crisis-on-infinite-earths-footage

Quote

As Nora uncovered the mysteries of her own past in the future, she stumbled upon the Time Vault, and Gideon offered to play a message from her father. Visibly emotional, Nora began to watch the first and only footage she had of her father speaking to her as The Flash. Take a look for yourself! (The message starts at 3:18, if you want to skip ahead.)

Now, it's probably safe to say that this message was recorded by Barry during the major Crisis that has been teased on The Flash from the very beginning, but was it during the "Crisis on Infinite Earths" crisis? Those two crises were never confirmed to be the same.

Barry says in the message that he doesn't have much time, and it's clear that he's not confident he'll get out of his current situation and live to teach his daughter how to use her powers. The red sky in the background fits with the "RED SKIES VANISH" headline from the newspaper.

All of this adds up to indicate that Barry's goodbye message comes from the Crisis teased in that newspaper, but there's one detail that may mean it's not "Crisis on Infinite Earths." The Crisis from the newspaper takes place in 2024. Could this message be footage from something entirely unrelated to "Crisis on Infinite Earths" and we're still going to have to wait for a glimpse of what's to come?

Honestly, I'm leaning towards the twist that this is indeed "Crisis on Infinite Earths" footage. The Flash showrunner Todd Helbing confirmed that the "Crisis" newspaper headline will be "a major factor in next year's crossover." Team Flash has messed with time so much in Season 5 that it would frankly be unbelievable if the future isn't messed up. The time shenanigans throughout Season 5 could conceivably move the 2024 Crisis date up to 2019.
*  *  *
Also, after listening to Barry's message a few times with headphones, I have a theory that the voice yelling "GET DOWN!" right before Barry signs off (at around 3:56 in the video above) belongs to none other than Oliver Queen. If that's the case, then I think it confirms that the footage is from "Crisis on Infinite Earths" rather than some other Flash-only Crisis.

Edited by tv echo
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

I think Grant Gustin was referring to COIE when he made this comment during his panel at Comicpalooza on May 11...

-- On whether there is an exit plan in place for The Flash series, GG: "Not that I know of. I think there kinda had been, but it has now kinda been altered. Um, I feel like some people might know kinda what I mean by that. I don't know, maybe not. It has to do with crossovers. But anyway, um, there's no - I don't know how we're going to wrap it up when we do something to wrap it up.."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6PhAPt22_s
(GlamPlays)

Edited by tv echo
tennisgurl

tennisgurl

Its probably not likely, but I kind of hope that the Crisis does away with the bad ARGUS future, so that Zaris family never dies. Of course, then maybe she would have never joined Legends and gotten powers, so who knows what that butterfly might lead to, but its a nice thought.

Oh, and if they can make it so that Oliver and Felecity can raise they kids together and be happy for five god dang seconds, that would be cool too.

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BaggythePanther

BaggythePanther

1 hour ago, Trini said:

Any Crisis info from Arrow's finale?

The Monitor showed up in one of the final scenes and took Oliver away. The Monitor said something about Oliver being important to upcoming events in the multiverse. Then at the very end (in a flash forward in 2040) the Monitor takes Felicity to join Oliver (that might not be Crisis related).

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tennisgurl

tennisgurl

(edited)

Also apparently Oliver is originally supposed to die in the Crisis, and the Monitor has seen him die in tons of other universes, but maybe he wont have to die here, or he can help save the multiverse, or something like that, the Monitor is always pretty vague. So I guess he takes the spot of Barry AND Kara, who both famously died in the comic Crisis, but I dont think its the end of Oliver for real. Apparently he found some wiggle room or has been messing with the multiverse for awhile.

Edited by tennisgurl
SimoneS

SimoneS

I still don't understand how Oliver can take Barry or Kara's places in the upcoming crisis. Their deaths in the comic crisis were the direct result of using their powers to save the earth/multiverse/whatever. Oliver doesn't have any powers so he cannot replicate their actions.  Berlanti et al. have conflated the comic crisis with the one they created for The Flash tv show. We'll see how it plays out.

Spoiler

The Monitor cracked me up last night and will likely do so again tonight in The Flash's finale.

He is so vague that I am convinced that he is clueless and is making it up as he goes along. He was probably just taking Oliver because he needed an assistant to bring him coffee. Ha.

Featherhat

Featherhat

I'd actually rather Oliver wasn't sacrificing himself to save Barry and Kara and missing out on his own life and family after everything he's been through but it makes sense within the context of the Arrowverse and Arrow ending. Whatever happens is probably more complicated than death. Barry and Kara might end up making the big sacrifice or trying to/sacrificing *something* in later crossovers or their own series finales.

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shantown

shantown

Arrow was the show I started watching last (weird, I know) so maybe it's just a recency bias, but I'm pissed that Oliver has to give up his life and his family to take the place of Barry and/or Kara, when every single crossover has marginalized Oliver's development and props up Speed Clown Barry Allen. I know it's not a new complaint, but this next crisis does the same, I'm about the give up the whole Arrowverse.

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Trini

Trini

(edited)

Oliver chose his deal.
 

6 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I still don't understand how Oliver can take Barry or Kara's places in the upcoming crisis. Their deaths in the comic crisis were the direct result of using their powers to save the earth/multiverse/whatever. Oliver doesn't have any powers so he cannot replicate their actions.  Berlanti et al. have conflated the comic crisis with the one they created for The Flash tv show. We'll see how it plays out.

  Reveal spoiler

The Monitor cracked me up last night and will likely do so again tonight in The Flash's finale.

He is so vague that I am convinced that he is clueless and is making it up as he goes along. He was probably just taking Oliver because he needed an assistant to bring him coffee. Ha.

They don't want to kill Oliver, which is the only reason he's being taken to whereever else. (Which is fine because it'd be depressing to end with his death.)

Edited by Trini
to clarify
tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

The Monitor scenes from Arrow's season finale (7x22-You Have Saved This City) last night...

(Oliver & Felicity left Star City and are living with their newborn daughter Mia in a nice cabin in the woods. Oliver is alerted to an intruder, picks up a knife, but then sees that it is the Monitor who has suddenly appeared in their home.)
Oliver: "Now? I thought I had more time."
*  *  *
(Flashback to Oliver's conversation with the Monitor during the "Elseworlds" crossover.)
The Monitor: "The universe is a complex piece of machinery, and balance must be maintained. One change requires another. How would you propose I keep the balance?"
Oliver: "Will you help me save Barry and Kara or not?"
The Monitor: "No. But I will give you the means to save them."
Oliver: "Tell me what you need in exchange."
The Monitor: "Whatever the multiverse requires to survive the crisis that is looming. When it is time."
*  *  *
(Back to then present day)
Oliver: "It's okay. So what bargain have I made? What does the multiverse require?"
The Monitor: "You assist me as we seek to prevent the inevitable."
Oliver: "But that sounds impossible."
The Monitor: "The multiverse is more complex than you could fathom."
Oliver: "What are you not telling me?"
The Monitor: "I've seen your future, Oliver, inexorable and unavoidable. I have watched you die."
Oliver: "During this crisis?"
The Monitor: "I am truly sorry."
Felicity: "No. You are not taking him."
Oliver: "Felicity."
Felicity: "Oliver."
The Monitor: "I am not here to bring harm to you or your daughter. Trust me, the world needs her."
Felicity: "You think that I'm just going to let you leave here with my husband's life?"
Oliver: "This is bigger than us. Than all of us."
Felicity: "Why does it always have to be you?"
The Monitor: "I cannot prevent his passing, but he can prevent the deaths of countless more, including you and your daughter. But he needs to come with me tonight."

(Oliver & Felicity say good-bye to each other.)
Felicity: "This is why we can't have a normal life. This is why our children will never have normal lives."
Oliver: "I had to make the deal."
Felicity: "Oh, there's always gonna be some danger or some threat. The League of Assassins or HIVE or the Ninth Circle or... the end of the friggin' universe."
Oliver: "I need you to make me a promise."
Felicity: "Yeah, okay."
Oliver: "No matter what happens to me. No matter what. You need to do everything in your power... You - you need to keep William and Mia safe."
Felicity: "I will keep them safe. But wherever you go, whatever happens to you, you'll never leave me. On our wedding day, you told me that I was the best part of you, but the truth is... we are the best parts of each other. And that is so much bigger than the friggin' universe."
Oliver: "When I came back to Star City to start my mission, I didn't think that I was capable or deserving of love. But you opened up my heart in ways that I never th- thought were possible. My only regret is not telling you I loved you sooner."
Felicity: "No regrets."
Oliver: "Would you tell Mia that I love her every day? (Felicity nods) And I know that she will grow up to be as smart and as beautiful as her mom."
Felicity: "I will find you... again. I promise."
Oliver: "I love you."
Felicity: "I love you so much."
(They kiss and hug, and then Oliver leaves.)

(In flashforward to 2040, older Felicity walks down a road in the woods at night, where she meets the Monitor.)
Felicity: "I'm ready."
The Monitor: "Where I'm taking you, there is no return."
Felicity: "I have waited a very long time to see him. I'm ready."
(The Monitor opens a portal. He and Felicity step through the portal.)

Edited by tv echo
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BaggythePanther

BaggythePanther

(edited)
On 5/14/2019 at 12:58 PM, tv echo said:

The Monitor: "I've seen your future, Oliver, inexorable and unavoidable. I have watched you die."
Oliver: "During this crisis?"
The Monitor: "I am truly sorry."

The Monitor didn’t directly answer Oliver’s question. Seems like a loophole to me.

After the Monitor appeared on Arrow I expected a  cool Easter egg on The Flash, but all we got was confirmation of what we already know. Makes me wonder if next year Arrow will be showing most of the lead up to COIE.

Edited by BaggythePanther
ETA an additional thought.
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

On 5/14/2019 at 11:57 AM, shantown said:

Arrow was the show I started watching last (weird, I know) so maybe it's just a recency bias, but I'm pissed that Oliver has to give up his life and his family to take the place of Barry and/or Kara, when every single crossover has marginalized Oliver's development and props up Speed Clown Barry Allen. I know it's not a new complaint, but this next crisis does the same, I'm about the give up the whole Arrowverse.

Agreed. 

Barry can rot. I just want Oliver to come out of this and get to see his kids grow up. 

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Maverick

Maverick

4 hours ago, BaggythePanther said:

The Monitor didn’t directly answer Oliver’s question. Seems like a loophole to me.

After the Monitor appeared on Arrow I expected a  cool Easter egg on The Flash, but all we got was confirmation of what we already know. Makes me wonder if next year Arrow will be showing most of the lead up to COIE.

 That's what I'm assuming.  Arrow basically finished telling it's story.   Oliver's gone and we know what happens to Felicity and Mia and basically everyone else.   What's the point of a 10 episode wrap up season when the title character isn't around.   It almost have to be Oliver's adventures with The Monitor.

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Starfish35

Starfish35

It seems that COIE will include the Legends, but not Black Lightning.

Arrowverse's 'Crisis on Infinite Earths' crossover will include Batwoman, Legends of Tomorrow

Quote

“Crisis on Infinite Earths” will truly be the Arrowverse’s biggest crossover yet.

EW has confirmed that the highly anticipated event will include Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, DC’s Legends of Tomorrow, and Batwoman, the newest Arrowverse series. “Crisis on Infinite Earths” will be five hours long and air over two quarters, the CW announced at its upfront presentation to advertisers in New York Thursday morning.

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Starfish35

Starfish35

From Variety:

CW Will Give DC’s Comics ‘Crisis’ a TV Twist

Quote

The “Crisis on Infinite Earths” storyline will take place over five episodes slated for broadcast in December and January, CW President Mark Pedowitz said Friday – three in late 2019 and two in early 2020.

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lemotomato

lemotomato

On 5/14/2019 at 6:41 AM, SimoneS said:

I still don't understand how Oliver can take Barry or Kara's places in the upcoming crisis. Their deaths in the comic crisis were the direct result of using their powers to save the earth/multiverse/whatever. Oliver doesn't have any powers so he cannot replicate their actions.  

I totally agree that Oliver should’ve stayed out of it and let Barry and Kara die like they were supposed to. He deserved to live out his well-earned retirement with his wife and raising his kids.

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SimoneS

SimoneS

(edited)

Thee comments complaining that Oliver should have stayed out of it and not made whatever bargain he made with the Monitor to "save" Barry and Kara completely misses the point of my comment so I repeat, "how Oliver can take Barry or Kara's places in the upcoming crisis? Their deaths in the comic crisis were the direct result of using their powers to save the earth/multiverse/whatever. Oliver doesn't have any powers so he cannot replicate their actions."

This whole plot point makes absolutely no sense. Unless they are completely changing the Crisis, it seems to me that nothing can stop Barry and Kara from "dying" or "disappearing." They will have to use their powers and sacrifice themselves to save the multiverse and then maybe they come back to life through with the assistance of their respective teams and fellow superheroes and/or even archenemies.

Edited by SimoneS
apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)
30 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Thee comments complaining that Oliver should have stayed out of it and not made whatever bargain he made with the Monitor to "save" Barry and Kara completely misses the point of my comment so I repeat, "how Oliver can take Barry or Kara's places in the upcoming crisis? Their deaths in the comic crisis were the direct result of using their powers to save the earth/multiverse/whatever. Oliver doesn't have any powers so he cannot replicate their actions."

This whole plot point makes absolutely no sense. Unless they are completely changing the Crisis, it seems to me that nothing can stop Barry and Kara from "dying" or "disappearing." They will have to use their powers and sacrifice themselves to save the multiverse and then maybe they come back to life through with the assistance of their respective teams and fellow superheroes and/or even archenemies.

Do you not think that this is what's happening? Barry and Kara were going to die as a direct result of using their powers to stop Deegan from rewriting reality in Elseworlds. Oliver stepped in and made a deal to stop that from happening. His deal with the Monitor isn't to die in their place, it is to—in the Monitor's own words—"assist me as we seek to prevent the inevitable." 

So it seems as if Oliver's deal places him in the Monitor's servitude to do whatever needs to be done leading up to the Crisis, and he dies as something that happens as part of that, not in place of Barry and Kara's arc in the comics. It seems like that arc has either been prevented by Oliver's actions and something else will happen to them in the Crisis, or maybe there's a similar event with the two of them in the Crisis crossover. We don't even know what Oliver's actually going to be doing as part of his deal yet.

Edited by apinknightmare
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shantown

shantown

1 hour ago, Starfish35 said:

From Variety:

CW Will Give DC’s Comics ‘Crisis’ a TV Twist

1 hour ago, Starfish35 said:

The “Crisis on Infinite Earths” storyline will take place over five episodes slated for broadcast in December and January, CW President Mark Pedowitz said Friday – three in late 2019 and two in early 2020.

2019 - Arrow, Supergirl?, and Batwoman?
2020 - LOT, and Flash?

lemotomato

lemotomato

45 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Thee comments complaining that Oliver should have stayed out of it and not made whatever bargain he made with the Monitor to "save" Barry and Kara completely misses the point of my comment

Hard to tell what the point of your comments are when they include complaints about Oliver’s importance being exaggerated and your previous comment

 He was probably just taking Oliver because he needed an assistant to bring him coffee. Ha.

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SimoneS

SimoneS

36 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Do you not think that this is what's happening? Barry and Kara were going to die as a direct result of using their powers to stop Deegan from rewriting reality in Elseworlds. Oliver stepped in and made a deal to stop that from happening. His deal with the Monitor isn't to die in their place, it is to—in the Monitor's own words—"assist me as we seek to prevent the inevitable." 

So it seems as if Oliver's deal places him in the Monitor's servitude to do whatever needs to be done leading up to the Crisis, and he dies as something that happens as part of that, not in place of Barry and Kara's arc in the comics. It seems like that arc has either been prevented by Oliver's actions and something else will happen to them in the Crisis, or maybe there's a similar event with the two of them in the Crisis crossover. We don't even know what Oliver's actually going to be doing as part of his deal yet.

As long as this version of crisis is a made for tv one rather than the comic one, this interpretation of Oliver's bargain with the Monitor makes sense to me rather than the blanket "Oliver made a bargain to take the place of Barry and Kara's deaths" which is what I have seen written all over. So maybe Thawne was wrong and something will stop Barry from disappearing.

apinknightmare

apinknightmare

6 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

As long as this version of crisis is a made for tv one rather than the comic one, this interpretation of Oliver's bargain with the Monitor makes sense to me rather than the blanket "Oliver made a bargain to take the place of Barry and Kara's deaths" which is what I have seen written all over. So maybe Thawne was wrong and something will stop Barry from disappearing.

I think that was the general consensus on what was going to happen simply because we didn't know what Oliver's bargain was, but we did know that he wasn't around in the flash forwards on Arrow.

In the Arrow finale, Oliver asks, "What bargain have I made? What does the Multiverse require?" And the Monitor replies with, "You assist me as we seek to prevent the inevitable." I think he's going to spend his time in Season 8 recruiting people and/or setting things up for the Crisis crossover. The Monitor did tell Oliver he was going to die during the Crisis, but that wasn't part of his bargain, so I think it's safe to say that it wasn't a 1:1 exchange as you feared. 

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RobertDeSneero

RobertDeSneero

8 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

In the Arrow finale, Oliver asks, "What bargain have I made? What does the Multiverse require?" And the Monitor replies with, "You assist me as we seek to prevent the inevitable." I think he's going to spend his time in Season 8 recruiting people and/or setting things up for the Crisis crossover. The Monitor did tell Oliver he was going to die during the Crisis, but that wasn't part of his bargain, so I think it's safe to say that it wasn't a 1:1 exchange as you feared. 

Oliver going through the multiverse and picking up alternate versions of his friends to fight in the Crisis could be a fun romp.  This would be where we get Diggle taking his adopted father's name as John Stewart, Green Lantern, a Ragman who hasn't lost his powers, a heroic Malcolm Merlyn, a Robert Queen who spent five years on an island after his son died in a yacht accident before taking up the mantle of Green Arrow.....

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Starry

Starry

I wish Oliver hadn't made that deal to save Barry and Kara either. Even if he doesn't take their places in the Crisis like I feared, he did prevent their deaths in Elseworlds. Oliver got the sympathetic edit and the viewers saw him as the real hero. Barry and Kara were treated like they were nothing and are now forever indebted to him, even if it's just in the audience's mind. I hate it.

From that conversation with the Monitor it does sound like Oliver was destined to perish in the Crisis regardless so at least there's that. I want Barry, Kara and the Legends to get their moment in the spotlight because from where I stand, these crossovers always favour Arrow in terms of story, sympathetic edit, etc. They moved up the Flash Crisis for this so I can only hope Barry gets to shine and do more than play second fiddle to others.

apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)
4 hours ago, Starry said:

I want Barry, Kara and the Legends to get their moment in the spotlight because from where I stand, these crossovers always favour Arrow in terms of story, sympathetic edit, etc. They moved up the Flash Crisis for this so I can only hope Barry gets to shine and do more than play second fiddle to others.

Me too. I would prefer if Arrow wasn't even involved with this crossover. Oliver gets shit on even for the sacrifices he makes that benefit other people. You'd prefer those people make heroic sacrifices? Cool, same. Let Barry and/or Kara die so they can get a sympathetic hero moment. Oliver couldn't even enjoy what little bit of time he knew he had left in his life as he knew it because yet another Allen had to go and mess with the timeline again. Let Barry or Kara suffer - I'm all for it. 

Edited by apinknightmare
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Featherhat

Featherhat

(edited)

In Elseworlds Barry and Kara repeatedly brought up Oliver's mistakes and character flaws, they even had Lois get in only within minutes of meeting him. And we were supposed to agree with them I think. In return Oliver makes this deal because Barry and Kara are super awesome whitehats who are worth more than he is and we're not supposed to really disagree with that considering how many characters point it out. Whilst it's a brave, self sacrificing edit, it wasn't really "look how amazing he is" edit. I've never felt Arrow gets favoured in crossovers, quite the opposite but of course YMMV.

That might be different this time around but Arrow is ending and the other shows aren't so that's why. Other characters will have further chances to do that when Oliver won't even be mentioned next year. 

Personally I'd much rather he had the opportunity to relax and watch his family grow up, he deserves it.

Edited by Featherhat
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Trini

Trini

13 hours ago, RobertDeSneero said:

Oliver going through the multiverse and picking up alternate versions of his friends to fight in the Crisis could be a fun romp.  This would be where we get Diggle taking his adopted father's name as John Stewart, Green Lantern, a Ragman who hasn't lost his powers, a heroic Malcolm Merlyn, a Robert Queen who spent five years on an island after his son died in a yacht accident before taking up the mantle of Green Arrow.....

I love seeing alternate versions of characters, so that sounds good to me! Based on the source material, there's supposed to be multiple universes involved, so I hope they take advantage of that, and not just have it be the two Earths we're already familiar with.

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Lantern7

Lantern7

On 3/14/2019 at 6:45 PM, Maverick said:

I don't understand how Supernatural has been on as long as it has but there it is.  Flash being on 10 years is possible, if they get decent writers, stop doing full year villains and cut the episode order a bit.  Especially if they use Crisis to reboot the show.  

Smallville lasted ten seasons. Anything is possible. 🤷‍♂️

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MarkHB
Message added by MarkHB

This thread is specifically for discussion of Elseworlds, Crisis on Infinite Earths, and speculation and spoilers directly pertaining to them.  Full rules for the thread are here; please read them.  Off-topic posts may be removed.

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