Defrauder July 29, 2015 Share July 29, 2015 I think the pants/or leggings under the littles skirts are to prevent any defrauding of anyone lest they do a headstand or somersault in skirt only. You know how these people can find even children defrauding. They sicken me. 5 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/7311-the-duggars-and-their-world-fashion-food-finance-schoolin%E2%80%99-and-child-rearin/page/19/#findComment-1369355
Barb23 July 29, 2015 Share July 29, 2015 While playing, leggings under a dress is fine. I just think that in some formal situations, a pair of tights and some dressier shoes would look nicer. But who am I kidding, we are talking about the Duggars. IIRC, didn't Josie wear white leggings, as opposed to tights, under her flower girl dress at Jillard's wedding? It is sad when they think the younger ones would defraud us. 6 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/7311-the-duggars-and-their-world-fashion-food-finance-schoolin%E2%80%99-and-child-rearin/page/19/#findComment-1369388
barbedwire July 29, 2015 Share July 29, 2015 In that second picture, one of the lost boys (plaid shirt and bow tie) is backing it up into Jinger. That isn't modest! I thought they had "safe guards" in place about their kids touching each other? /sarcasm 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/7311-the-duggars-and-their-world-fashion-food-finance-schoolin%E2%80%99-and-child-rearin/page/19/#findComment-1369439
Defrauder July 30, 2015 Share July 30, 2015 (edited) I find it so creepy that Michelle is dressed just like the girls, instead of having a separate "I'm an adult as well" dress. And it's such a tacky looking dress that it looks really out of place next to Boob's suit. She doesn't want to be an adult. She wants to be baby Mechelle holding daddy's hand. Her own children are competition for JB's attention. She speaks in a baby girl voice because that's what she wants to be. Edited July 30, 2015 by Defrauder 12 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/7311-the-duggars-and-their-world-fashion-food-finance-schoolin%E2%80%99-and-child-rearin/page/19/#findComment-1372710
dillpickles July 30, 2015 Share July 30, 2015 She doesn't want to be an adult. She wants to be baby Mechelle holding daddy's hand. Her own children are competition for JB's attention. She speaks in a baby girl voice because that's what she wants to be. Michelle... has a daddy fetish? This makes bedroom time much more interesting. (I'll be in the prayer closet puking if anyone needs me.) 9 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/7311-the-duggars-and-their-world-fashion-food-finance-schoolin%E2%80%99-and-child-rearin/page/19/#findComment-1373369
Wellfleet July 30, 2015 Share July 30, 2015 She doesn't want to be an adult. She wants to be baby Mechelle holding daddy's hand. Her own children are competition for JB's attention. She speaks in a baby girl voice because that's what she wants to be. This has been my own line of thinking regarding Me-chelle for a long time as well. I believe if a qualified psychiatrist or psychologist ever got a crack at her - for a sufficiently-long enough period of time - this would likely end up being a significant part of his/her findings. 8 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/7311-the-duggars-and-their-world-fashion-food-finance-schoolin%E2%80%99-and-child-rearin/page/19/#findComment-1373404
flyingdi July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 First Yah, looks like Zack is following right along with the Josh Duggar Post-Wedding Diet. Do all fundie men gain a minimum of 30 lbs within a year of marriage? The younger ones certainly seem to, at least in many cases. First time in their lives that they don't have to fight off 18 other people to get food. 6 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/7311-the-duggars-and-their-world-fashion-food-finance-schoolin%E2%80%99-and-child-rearin/page/19/#findComment-1374724
SomePity1066 July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 Oh, Jeezy-Chreezy... The photo of the whole clan is circa 2004 (?) so we'd be missing some Howlers and some of the Lost Girls, I think, but still, quite the promenade... Are they TRYING to make Margaret Atwood's The Handmaid's Tale come true. Like, in REAL life, right down to the costumes ? The blood-red frumper-jumpers and the white pilgrim collars that they're ALL wearing is giving me the willies. Hell, not even the willies - I have the Williams !!! Why JB and Mechelle coordinate outfits is just beyond me. Headship and Helpmeet ? Just...tacky. And weird. And creepy. Verrrrry creepy. I remember (for those of you as old as me to remember) there were matching outfits for men and women in the Spiegel's catalog. Lots of "leisure" stuff and swinger-turtlenecks. Makes me think of key-swapping parties - haha... They're making the hair on the back of my neck stand up with their...fecundity. Good Lord, did I just type that ? We know, we KNOW - you're doing it ALL the time to pump out another blessing. Hope you had enough red cloth to sufficiently cover your progeny. I see that picture and all I can think of is Shirley Jackson's "The Lottery". 10 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/7311-the-duggars-and-their-world-fashion-food-finance-schoolin%E2%80%99-and-child-rearin/page/19/#findComment-1374762
Churchhoney July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 (edited) And, SP1066? According to the Daily Mail, it was a photo taken on this occasion that brought the Duggs to the attention of TLC. It was primary voting day, as JB and Michelle went to the polls to vote in Boob's (losing) race for the GOP US Senate nomination, in 2002. This is the photo the Daily Mail published: Which makes it all IMO extra-creepy. Cue the ominous background music. . . Even worse. This is one of the photos where you can see the two additional mystery girls -- just the tops of their heads in this photo, although they are more visible in some others. If you look closely at how many girls are here, there are 7 daughters. And they only had 5 at the time. Other photos show that all 7 are wearing the dress. Who the heck are they? (cue Twilight Zone music) One might be Amy, but there are two. The photo below shows all seven. (Joy's mostly hidden behind one of the boys here). I'm sure someone knows who the two extras are, but I haven't yet seen an answer. Anyway -- looks even creepier to have even kids who aren't theirs wearing the dress. Somebody was really churning those costumes out. Maybe they had plans to open a Training Center for Right-Thinking Young Ladies? Great fodder for a dystopian YA novel! .... Maybe JB could write it -- just get a ghost to transcribe his fantasies of world domination. Edited July 31, 2015 by Churchhoney 9 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/7311-the-duggars-and-their-world-fashion-food-finance-schoolin%E2%80%99-and-child-rearin/page/19/#findComment-1375213
kokapetl July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 Even worse. This is one of the photos where you can see the two additional mystery girls -- just the tops of their heads in this photo, although they are more visible in some others. If you look closely at how many girls are here, there are 7 daughters. And they only had 5 at the time. Other photos show that all 7 are wearing the dress. Who the heck are they? (cue Twilight Zone music) One might be Amy, but there are two. Shit, you're right. I thought the worst part was Michelle wearing that infantile getup, but it's like ten times creepier with the matching extras. 9 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/7311-the-duggars-and-their-world-fashion-food-finance-schoolin%E2%80%99-and-child-rearin/page/19/#findComment-1375223
Happyfatchick July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 (edited) It IS creepy, the whole red marching band. Even creepier (on a personal note): I had that very same dress pattern. I did!!! Used it for a maternity dress for both babies born '79 and '81. Nearly 20 years before this pic was taken. Was I a trend setter, or were they very late to the party??? I used to go to church with a fundie (quiverfull) lady who made every dress she ever wore from this pattern. The fabric varied, the dress did not. And she dressed all her girls alike. There is just something very Stepfordesque when you see the whole tribe trailing behind, all dressed alike. It's a statement. Subliminally, it speaks volumes. Edited July 31, 2015 by Happyfatchick 9 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/7311-the-duggars-and-their-world-fashion-food-finance-schoolin%E2%80%99-and-child-rearin/page/19/#findComment-1375324
Darknight July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 Those dresses. Yuck. And again why is JimChelle in the front holding hands? 3 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/7311-the-duggars-and-their-world-fashion-food-finance-schoolin%E2%80%99-and-child-rearin/page/19/#findComment-1375722
mimionthebeach July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 (edited) Those dresses. Yuck. And again why is JimChelle in the front holding hands?No worries, they've got Chester at the end of the red stream keeping all those blessings in hand. Why, oh why, would you add two extra girls dressed as family? Seems really weird to me. Especially as the sperm geyser habitually introduces himself as father of [spawn count] children. Edited July 31, 2015 by mimionthebeach 11 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/7311-the-duggars-and-their-world-fashion-food-finance-schoolin%E2%80%99-and-child-rearin/page/19/#findComment-1375775
GEML July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 Given that it was primary day for what he believed (at that time) the most important ($250,000) day of his life, I get the showmanship of it. They are in red because he's the REAL Republican in the race and they are true patriots. It's a political photo-op. 5 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/7311-the-duggars-and-their-world-fashion-food-finance-schoolin%E2%80%99-and-child-rearin/page/19/#findComment-1375837
kokapetl July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 Trotting out your kids in matching outfits for a photo op makes sense, but having your wife wear a matching and even more infantile version of the girl's dresses makes her look 'special needs'. The extras 'daughters' seem like evidence that Michelle's never succeeded or bothered with the blanket training, JimChelle needed fake daughters to hold their kids hands to ensure no misbehavior. 7 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/7311-the-duggars-and-their-world-fashion-food-finance-schoolin%E2%80%99-and-child-rearin/page/19/#findComment-1376190
Defrauder July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 Those dresses. Yuck. And again why is JimChelle in the front holding hands? The holding hands - Mechelle is JB's first baby, that's why she speaks like one and why everyone else has someone to look after but her. I'm not sure which one's are the added mystery girls but could one or both be babysitters since baby Mechelle can't look after ANYONE. Also right around Josh's supposed 'confession' time if I'm not mistaken? 6 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/7311-the-duggars-and-their-world-fashion-food-finance-schoolin%E2%80%99-and-child-rearin/page/19/#findComment-1376252
Churchhoney July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 (edited) The holding hands - Mechelle is JB's first baby, that's why she speaks like one and why everyone else has someone to look after but her. I'm not sure which one's are the added mystery girls but could one or both be babysitters since baby Mechelle can't look after ANYONE. Also right around Josh's supposed 'confession' time if I'm not mistaken? New rule: Never babysit for a couple who makes you wear the same uniform their umpteen daughters are wearing. ETA: And their mother. Aaagh. Edited July 31, 2015 by Churchhoney 9 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/7311-the-duggars-and-their-world-fashion-food-finance-schoolin%E2%80%99-and-child-rearin/page/19/#findComment-1376273
kokapetl July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 (edited) The holding hands - Mechelle is JB's first baby, that's why she speaks like one and why everyone else has someone to look after but her. I'm not sure which one's are the added mystery girls but could one or both be babysitters since baby Mechelle can't look after ANYONE. Also right around Josh's supposed 'confession' time if I'm not mistaken? One fake Duggar is behind Jinger, that one is wearing track pants underneath her Duggar costume, the other one has pigtails, and is wearing sandals with her costume. I don't think either can be Amy, she's older than Josh-lester. Edited July 31, 2015 by Kokapetl 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/7311-the-duggars-and-their-world-fashion-food-finance-schoolin%E2%80%99-and-child-rearin/page/19/#findComment-1376320
GEML July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 There were a number of Gothard followers helping with the campaign. I'm Assuming the extra girls were from those families which is why they have the look. And I don't think Michelle is dressing to look like a child. It's clearly a maternity dress. I think she's dressing the daughters to look like miniature Michelles/adults/pregnant women. 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/7311-the-duggars-and-their-world-fashion-food-finance-schoolin%E2%80%99-and-child-rearin/page/19/#findComment-1376402
kokapetl July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 There were a number of Gothard followers helping with the campaign. I'm Assuming the extra girls were from those families which is why they have the look. And I don't think Michelle is dressing to look like a child. It's clearly a maternity dress. I think she's dressing the daughters to look like miniature Michelles/adults/pregnant women. Well, she probably wasn't dressing intentionally like a child, but that's the effect. Either that, or the girls are wearing maternity dresses, but did maternity wear in 2002 look anything like that?I think at least one of the fakes is wearing her supplied Duggar dress over the top of normal clothes, it's highly unlikely even a fellow Gothard/Quiverfull/Fundy etc just happened to have the same homemade dress in the exact same fabric. 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/7311-the-duggars-and-their-world-fashion-food-finance-schoolin%E2%80%99-and-child-rearin/page/19/#findComment-1376457
Churchhoney July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 One fake Duggar is behind Jinger, that one is wearing track pants underneath her Duggar costume, the other one has pigtails, and is wearing sandals with her costume. I don't think either can be Amy, she's older than Josh-lester. Thanks for the sleuthing. I wonder if they got the ill-made dresses that Jana did before she figured out the pattern. heh Well, she probably wasn't dressing intentionally like a child, but that's the effect. Either that, or the girls are wearing maternity dresses, but did maternity wear in 2002 look anything like that? As I recall, nothing in 2002 looked like that. 6 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/7311-the-duggars-and-their-world-fashion-food-finance-schoolin%E2%80%99-and-child-rearin/page/19/#findComment-1376524
GEML July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 As I said, I think this was part of the Amish stage when you have children and adults looking the same. It needed to be a pattern she, Jana and likely Jessa could see easily, and it needed to be not only super modest, but also something she could use as maternity wear. Bingo. 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/7311-the-duggars-and-their-world-fashion-food-finance-schoolin%E2%80%99-and-child-rearin/page/19/#findComment-1376597
Absolom July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 That dress is closer to 1980 maternity wear than to 2002. Although I don't know anyone who would have worn that in 1980. 4 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/7311-the-duggars-and-their-world-fashion-food-finance-schoolin%E2%80%99-and-child-rearin/page/19/#findComment-1376612
GEML July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 Alas, I know a few people wearing something close to it today. 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/7311-the-duggars-and-their-world-fashion-food-finance-schoolin%E2%80%99-and-child-rearin/page/19/#findComment-1376622
Sew Sumi July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 I have my doubts that Mechelle ever did a stitch of sewing. Jana has been doing that heavy lifting from early childhood. Jessa is not a sewer; she showed her (lack of) talent in the episode when the "girls" were all shipped to Florida to make Anna's bridesmaids' dresses. She was relegated to sticthing on the tieback bows. 4 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/7311-the-duggars-and-their-world-fashion-food-finance-schoolin%E2%80%99-and-child-rearin/page/19/#findComment-1376625
kokapetl July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 (edited) Alas, I know a few people wearing something close to it today. Please don't be offended, but are they West Virginian lumpenproletariat? Edited July 31, 2015 by Kokapetl 4 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/7311-the-duggars-and-their-world-fashion-food-finance-schoolin%E2%80%99-and-child-rearin/page/19/#findComment-1376811
Cherrio July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 Alas, I know a few people wearing something close to it today. Its the Red Lobster tablecloth dress trend that is sweeping the nation. Its very popular among the cheesy biscuit brain crowd. 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/7311-the-duggars-and-their-world-fashion-food-finance-schoolin%E2%80%99-and-child-rearin/page/19/#findComment-1376834
Darknight July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 The dresses make them look like LDS followers Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/7311-the-duggars-and-their-world-fashion-food-finance-schoolin%E2%80%99-and-child-rearin/page/19/#findComment-1376837
kassygreene July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 Oh, no, the color is far too bright! Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/7311-the-duggars-and-their-world-fashion-food-finance-schoolin%E2%80%99-and-child-rearin/page/19/#findComment-1376842
GEML August 1, 2015 Share August 1, 2015 Some WV, some in OH, some in VA. 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/7311-the-duggars-and-their-world-fashion-food-finance-schoolin%E2%80%99-and-child-rearin/page/19/#findComment-1376935
RazzleberryPie August 1, 2015 Share August 1, 2015 It IS creepy, the whole red marching band. Even creepier (on a personal note): I had that very same dress pattern. I did!!! Used it for a maternity dress for both babies born '79 and '81. Nearly 20 years before this pic was taken. Was I a trend setter, or were they very late to the party??? I used to go to church with a fundie (quiverfull) lady who made every dress she ever wore from this pattern. The fabric varied, the dress did not. And she dressed all her girls alike. There is just something very Stepfordesque when you see the whole tribe trailing behind, all dressed alike. It's a statement. Subliminally, it speaks volumes. The red dresses serve few purposes. They're flamboyantly modest - LOOK AT US, covering up! They're Republican red to remind voters to vote for JimBob. They're enforcing the Duggar 'brand' of a huge, cohesive, perfect (gag me) family that is so perfect and in sync, that they all dress alike. They mask the two non-Duggar girls blend in seamlessly. They shout to the world that Michelle is pregnant. They uglify and cover up little girls who may defraud the menfolk with their sexy figures or whatever. The shapeless patterns were probably easy for Jana to sew and are loose enough to fit a variety of sizes/shapes, so they'll get a lot of wear. The biggest thing, to me thought, is the modest flamboyancy and the narcissism of showcasing what a perfect, humble, modest, functional, perfect family unit they are. You know all you non-Gothards who are going to straight to hell want to be just like our little cult, but you're heathens. They seriously think these matching red frumpers make them special and envied. Please don't be offended, but are they West Virginian lumpenproletariat? What does this mean? I have relatives in WV, and have never seen anyone dress that way. 9 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/7311-the-duggars-and-their-world-fashion-food-finance-schoolin%E2%80%99-and-child-rearin/page/19/#findComment-1376967
GEML August 1, 2015 Share August 1, 2015 It's directed to me. I'm a long established WV family, and many branches of that tree are various types of Fundy. But it's not, as I said above, solely a WV thing. I know a handful of subcultures still wearing the homemade mother daughter dresses in a few states. Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/7311-the-duggars-and-their-world-fashion-food-finance-schoolin%E2%80%99-and-child-rearin/page/19/#findComment-1377013
BradandJanet August 1, 2015 Share August 1, 2015 I have my doubts that Mechelle ever did a stitch of sewing. Jana has been doing that heavy lifting from early childhood. Jessa is not a sewer; she showed her (lack of) talent in the episode when the "girls" were all shipped to Florida to make Anna's bridesmaids' dresses. She was relegated to sticthing on the tieback bows.There's a great incentive in this family not to have a skill. It just means more unpaid work. It IS creepy, the whole red marching band. Even creepier (on a personal note): I had that very same dress pattern. I did!!! Used it for a maternity dress for both babies born '79 and '81. Nearly 20 years before this pic was taken. Was I a trend setter, or were they very late to the party??? I used to go to church with a fundie (quiverfull) lady who made every dress she ever wore from this pattern. The fabric varied, the dress did not. And she dressed all her girls alike. There is just something very Stepfordesque when you see the whole tribe trailing behind, all dressed alike. It's a statement. Subliminally, it speaks volumes.I made this dress without the collar for my mid 80's pregnancy. By the second one three years later, I went to Zayres and bought something off the rack. The first dresses made great rags. 4 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/7311-the-duggars-and-their-world-fashion-food-finance-schoolin%E2%80%99-and-child-rearin/page/19/#findComment-1377018
kokapetl August 1, 2015 Share August 1, 2015 The red dresses serve few purposes. They're flamboyantly modest - LOOK AT US, covering up! They're Republican red to remind voters to vote for JimBob. They're enforcing the Duggar 'brand' of a huge, cohesive, perfect (gag me) family that is so perfect and in sync, that they all dress alike. They mask the two non-Duggar girls blend in seamlessly. They shout to the world that Michelle is pregnant. They uglify and cover up little girls who may defraud the menfolk with their sexy figures or whatever. The shapeless patterns were probably easy for Jana to sew and are loose enough to fit a variety of sizes/shapes, so they'll get a lot of wear. The biggest thing, to me thought, is the modest flamboyancy and the narcissism of showcasing what a perfect, humble, modest, functional, perfect family unit they are. You know all you non-Gothards who are going to straight to hell want to be just like our little cult, but you're heathens. They seriously think these matching red frumpers make them special and envied. What does this mean? I have relatives in WV, and have never seen anyone dress that way. Lumpenproletariat is a term that was originally coined by Karl Marx to describe the layer of the working class that is unlikely ever to achieve class consciousness It's directed to me. I'm a long established WV family, and many branches of that tree are various types of Fundy. But it's not, as I said above, solely a WV thing. I know a handful of subcultures still wearing the homemade mother daughter dresses in a few states. I shouldn't have used the term lumpenproletariat, it's derogatory. But I am surprised how "widespread" it is. However, surely JimChelle would have noticed they were the only ones in town who wore such clothing. 3 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/7311-the-duggars-and-their-world-fashion-food-finance-schoolin%E2%80%99-and-child-rearin/page/19/#findComment-1377191
RedPonyDriver August 1, 2015 Share August 1, 2015 But...if they were the ONLY ones in town wearing that clothing, that just shows that they're so much better, holier and modest than the rest of the great unwashed heathens that live around them... Truth is...they look like a scene out of The Handmaid's Tale...some seriously scary shit... 13 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/7311-the-duggars-and-their-world-fashion-food-finance-schoolin%E2%80%99-and-child-rearin/page/19/#findComment-1377395
Churchhoney August 1, 2015 Share August 1, 2015 (edited) But...if they were the ONLY ones in town wearing that clothing, that just shows that they're so much better, holier and modest than the rest of the great unwashed heathens that live around them... Truth is...they look like a scene out of The Handmaid's Tale...some seriously scary shit... And the color just takes it to a whole other place, to me. If these dresses had been a black or a deep blue or even a deeper red or maroon, you'd get a nun vibe or an Amish vibe, but something within the realms of ordinary human experience. It's the bright bright red, to me, that takes it straight to crazy town and dystopia. It's the color of some wild medieval religious fest, but instead of having the powerful men in the blood red it's the oppressed women in their oppressive costumes that are nevertheless wearing the startling color -- is that the feeling? Something like that anyway. (either that or just seriously bad taste, I guess) Edited August 1, 2015 by Churchhoney 3 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/7311-the-duggars-and-their-world-fashion-food-finance-schoolin%E2%80%99-and-child-rearin/page/19/#findComment-1377755
GEML August 1, 2015 Share August 1, 2015 But that's part of the point of many Fundy clothing choices. It's SUPPOSED to set you apart. Modesty is not the same in these groups as "not calling attention to" it's strictly a sexually term. It's actually for people to know you are "in the world but not of it". You refuse to be fully a part of the world as we know it, and that comes down even to the way people dress. It's a reminder that you can't hide - not from other people, and not from God. 4 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/7311-the-duggars-and-their-world-fashion-food-finance-schoolin%E2%80%99-and-child-rearin/page/19/#findComment-1377769
kokapetl August 1, 2015 Share August 1, 2015 But it's insane to think you'll be elected by the general public if you're deliberately dressing to separate yourself from the general public. The red dress photos give off a vibe of "we're not like you, and not in a desirable way, we're weirdos". 9 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/7311-the-duggars-and-their-world-fashion-food-finance-schoolin%E2%80%99-and-child-rearin/page/19/#findComment-1377815
Tabbygirl521 August 1, 2015 Share August 1, 2015 (edited) But it's insane to think you'll be elected by the general public if you're deliberately dressing to separate yourself from the general public. The red dress photos give off a vibe of "we're not like you, and not in a desirable way, we're weirdos".I wonder if they assumed (or maybe it's true) that there were enough of their ilk in the general population to get JB elected. They were so in their own little non-worldly bubble in those days, he may have totally misread everything, including how not to weird out people, not to mention offend great numbers of them. GEML, I get what you're saying about what their "distinctive" dress is meant to convey. I guess what I can never grasp, and what seems immodest in the case of the Duggars, is why they feel the need to trumpet this to the world. (I am just musing, not challenging you!) Why do they care so much about advertising how much they are rejecting (I.e., judging) everyone around them? It seems a bit more understandable, somehow, for an entire community, like the Amish, to do so. Maybe because it's a long-standing and clearly defined tradition, I dunno. But the Duggars or Gothard or whoever just seem to have randomly made up this LOOK AT US! WE SCORN YOU BUT VOTE FOR ME (or just admire us) ANYWAY crap. Their "modesty" really is just about sexuality, isn't it? To me, Amish dress seems more genuinely modest in some ways - I guess because of the lack of colorful plumage. Also, as we have learned, the Gothard model of modesty seems to have fetish-y overtones, and is also a fail if JB and Jill are correct about the vast numbers of their acquaintances with "sin in the camp." Although I think I have heard similar rumors about the Amish. I am rambling, sorry. My brain is just headed down some rabbit holes, I guess. Back to Jim Bob - I am now a little curious about whether he felt no need to have the family appeal visually to the mainstream or just didn't care. Oh wait, God wanted him to win, right, so who needs a strategy? And yet once they got on TV, a lot of those modesty principles began eroding. I wonder if or how he explained to the wimmen that tight skirts etc. were suddenly OK? God laid it in his heart? Edited August 1, 2015 by Tabbygirl521 9 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/7311-the-duggars-and-their-world-fashion-food-finance-schoolin%E2%80%99-and-child-rearin/page/19/#findComment-1377845
GEML August 1, 2015 Share August 1, 2015 Yes, it was crazy for him to think he would be elected to the Senate. 5 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/7311-the-duggars-and-their-world-fashion-food-finance-schoolin%E2%80%99-and-child-rearin/page/19/#findComment-1377866
RazzleberryPie August 1, 2015 Share August 1, 2015 Also, as we have learned, the Gothard model of modesty seems to have fetish-y overtones, and is also a fail if JB and Jill are correct about the vast numbers of their acquaintances with "sin in the camp." Although I think I have heard similar rumors about the Amish. I am rambling, sorry. My brain is just headed down some rabbit holes, I guess. Back to Jim Bob - I am now a little curious about whether he felt no need to have the family appeal visually to the mainstream or just didn't care. Oh wait, God wanted him to win, right, so who needs a strategy? And yet once they got on TV, a lot of those modesty principles began eroding. I wonder if or how he explained to the wimmen that tight skirts etc. were suddenly OK? God laid it in his heart? Some Amish are a whole other ball of crazy (literally), but any isolated group, after a generation or two, is going to have a whole lot of people who are there because they're born into it, and don't know anything else. A lot of them have no idea why they do what they do and never question. The Duggars - this is especially evident in Jill - truly believe they are Special. They believe all their rules and regulations make them God's special flock, and everyone is impressed and wishes they could be just like them. I'm also a firm believer, that Michelle's religious beliefs conform a whole lot to her own 'season of life' and insecurities. When she had the cheerleader body, shorts were ok. After three or four pregnancies, suddenly looser, fuller skirts were placed on her heart as the proper attire. After 10 or 12 kids had wrecked her body, they were on a super tight budget, suddenly they were sewing their own fugly sacks with no shape and huge frilly collars to draw attention to their countenance/faces and away from bodies. Then Josh starts feeling up his siblings, and the layers and leggings start being God's chosen uniform, and NIKE comes into play. Then the girls get older, want to look cute and stylish (totally normal behavior), budgets increase, and the the world starts noticing that no one is courting, so the long skirts become thin and tight, the t-shirts get tight, the makeup is troweled on, etc. 18 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/7311-the-duggars-and-their-world-fashion-food-finance-schoolin%E2%80%99-and-child-rearin/page/19/#findComment-1378594
kokapetl August 1, 2015 Share August 1, 2015 Some Amish are a whole other ball of crazy (literally), but any isolated group, after a generation or two, is going to have a whole lot of people who are there because they're born into it, and don't know anything else. A lot of them have no idea why they do what they do and never question. The Duggars - this is especially evident in Jill - truly believe they are Special. They believe all their rules and regulations make them God's special flock, and everyone is impressed and wishes they could be just like them. I'm also a firm believer, that Michelle's religious beliefs conform a whole lot to her own 'season of life' and insecurities. When she had the cheerleader body, shorts were ok. After three or four pregnancies, suddenly looser, fuller skirts were placed on her heart as the proper attire. After 10 or 12 kids had wrecked her body, they were on a super tight budget, suddenly they were sewing their own fugly sacks with no shape and huge frilly collars to draw attention to their countenance/faces and away from bodies. Then Josh starts feeling up his siblings, and the layers and leggings start being God's chosen uniform, and NIKE comes into play. Then the girls get older, want to look cute and stylish (totally normal behavior), budgets increase, and the the world starts noticing that no one is courting, so the long skirts become thin and tight, the t-shirts get tight, the makeup is troweled on, etc. It's sort of stunning but ironic how their beliefs changed so readily to fit their current tastes and circumstances. Should Jessa need and want a D & C, that would suddenly become acceptable to the family. 8 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/7311-the-duggars-and-their-world-fashion-food-finance-schoolin%E2%80%99-and-child-rearin/page/19/#findComment-1378626
Churchhoney August 1, 2015 Share August 1, 2015 (edited) But that's part of the point of many Fundy clothing choices. It's SUPPOSED to set you apart. Modesty is not the same in these groups as "not calling attention to" it's strictly a sexually term. It's actually for people to know you are "in the world but not of it". You refuse to be fully a part of the world as we know it, and that comes down even to the way people dress. It's a reminder that you can't hide - not from other people, and not from God. I do get this, and I'm sure you're right that that's what they intend. But I'm struggling to figure out why it's so extremely dystopian and creepy to me, when some seemingly similar images wouldn't be. I think they've accomplished in the image something that's different from what they intend, very dystopian, and maybe even suggestive of some hidden truths. And I think it's the man in a suit who's part of the power structure while leading by the hand a childish woman and a passel of girls all dressed in an old-fashioned, childish, servant-like uniform of a garish and emotionally charged color that makes it a seriously dystopian image for me. It's the same kind of feeling I get from a picture of a man in a suit and a naked woman or women. There's something off and disturbing and a bit obscene about it and it highlights -- blindingly, for me --both the state of the woman or women and the fact that it's the man's power that has put them into these states in which their individual identities are stripped at the same time as their state forces everyone to look at them. And I'm pretty sure I'd be less disturbed if the color of the female costume suggested more seriousness. The red, like the nakedness, looks like mere decoration, like a toy. To me, it's very notable here that, even though the religious idea is to be set apart from the world, Jim Bob, who is also part of this belief system, is not set apart from the world in the image. In fact, he's dressed 100 percent in the current costume of the world's power structure. He's unmistakably a part of this culture. He looks, in fact, like a senator, and very much of this world. Meanwhile, the many women/girls who are clearly in his charge are placed in a completely different position -- in a costume that utterly precludes their having any power at all and whose color rivets everybody's eyes on them. Just like a naked woman in a painting with men clothed in business suits. For me, those are both images that suggest blank unshakeable worldly male power calmly creating a world in which the other gender is set apart to be always watched and to be incapable of escaping its state or exercising any agency of its own. Dystopian. Okay, I'll stop my endless anatomizing of the image now. I think I know why it disturbs me. Thank goodness. Edited August 1, 2015 by Churchhoney 22 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/7311-the-duggars-and-their-world-fashion-food-finance-schoolin%E2%80%99-and-child-rearin/page/19/#findComment-1378759
latetotheparty August 1, 2015 Share August 1, 2015 I do get this, and I'm sure you're right that that's what they intend. But I'm struggling to figure out why it's so extremely dystopian and creepy to me, when some seemingly similar images wouldn't be. I think they've accomplished in the image something that's different from what they intend, very dystopian, and maybe even suggestive of some hidden truths. And I think it's the man in a suit who's part of the power structure while leading by the hand a childish woman and a passel of girls all dressed in an old-fashioned, childish, servant-like uniform of a garish and emotionally charged color that makes it a seriously dystopian image for me. It's the same kind of feeling I get from a picture of a man in a suit and a naked woman or women. There's something off and disturbing and a bit obscene about it and it highlights -- blindingly, for me --both the state of the woman or women and the fact that it's the man's power that has put them into these states in which their individual identities are stripped at the same time as their state forces everyone to look at them. To me, it's very notable here that, even though the religious idea is to be set apart from the world, Jim Bob, who is also part of this belief system, is not set apart from the world in the image. In fact, he's dressed 100 percent in the current costume of the world's power structure. He's unmistakably a part of this culture. He looks, in fact, like a senator, and very much of this world. Meanwhile, the many women/girls who are clearly in his charge are placed in a completely different position -- in a costume that utterly precludes their having any power at all and whose color rivets everybody's eyes on them. Just like a naked woman in a painting with men clothed in business suits. For me, those are both images that suggest blank unshakeable worldly male power calmly creating a world in which the other gender is set apart to be always watched and to be incapable of escaping its state or exercising any agency of its own. Dystopian. Okay, I'll stop my endless anatomizing of the image now. I think I know why it disturbs me. Thank goodness. I really appreciate how you manage to articulate what I struggle to put into words. That photo is horrifying to me. 9 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/7311-the-duggars-and-their-world-fashion-food-finance-schoolin%E2%80%99-and-child-rearin/page/19/#findComment-1378772
Churchhoney August 1, 2015 Share August 1, 2015 I really appreciate how you manage to articulate what I struggle to put into words. That photo is horrifying to me. Thanks. To me, too. Hence my obsession with anatomizing it!! 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/7311-the-duggars-and-their-world-fashion-food-finance-schoolin%E2%80%99-and-child-rearin/page/19/#findComment-1378820
latetotheparty August 2, 2015 Share August 2, 2015 (edited) Thanks. To me, too. Hence my obsession with anatomizing it!! My reading tastes run to science fiction and murder mysteries and some of them are pretty hardcore but the only book that ever really fucked me up is The Handmaid's Tale. I found it all too possible. Aliens destroying earth are much easier to take. Edited August 2, 2015 by latetotheparty 8 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/7311-the-duggars-and-their-world-fashion-food-finance-schoolin%E2%80%99-and-child-rearin/page/19/#findComment-1378898
carrps August 2, 2015 Share August 2, 2015 (edited) I had both kinds - I saved money to buy them AND made my own. I was always terribly thrilled when people couldn't tell the difference. Reply to OLD post: Friends of mine found a Gunne Sax outlet in Upland, so I could afford several. Mine were definitely not fundy attire, because they all had fairly low cut bodices. Edited August 2, 2015 by carrps 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/7311-the-duggars-and-their-world-fashion-food-finance-schoolin%E2%80%99-and-child-rearin/page/19/#findComment-1378911
Churchhoney August 2, 2015 Share August 2, 2015 My reading tastes run to science fiction and murder mysteries and some of them are pretty hardcore but the only book that ever really fucked me up is The Handmaid's Tale. I found it all too possible. Aliens destroying earth are much easier to take. Yep. I'm right there with you. 4 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/7311-the-duggars-and-their-world-fashion-food-finance-schoolin%E2%80%99-and-child-rearin/page/19/#findComment-1378921
SomePity1066 August 2, 2015 Share August 2, 2015 Yep. I'm right there with you. We have to remember, though, that The Handmaid's Tale was a diary account from long, long ago, being examined by anthropologists in a multi-cultural, non-sexist, free society. The book actually ends on a good note... But, man - that picture. All that RED...? That just stings like a wasp. 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/7311-the-duggars-and-their-world-fashion-food-finance-schoolin%E2%80%99-and-child-rearin/page/19/#findComment-1378974
Happyfatchick August 2, 2015 Share August 2, 2015 Some Amish are a whole other ball of crazy (literally), but any isolated group, after a generation or two, is going to have a whole lot of people who are there because they're born into it, and don't know anything else. A lot of them have no idea why they do what they do and never question. The Duggars - this is especially evident in Jill - truly believe they are Special. They believe all their rules and regulations make them God's special flock, and everyone is impressed and wishes they could be just like them. There are A WHOLE LOT of crazy Amish, no doubt. I'm only once removed from there myself, and I have, well, quivers-full ;) of cousins that make me do the doggie head tilt. (Bless their hearts). Some are quite notably odd. Creepy weird. Walk right into your space and stare at you creepy weird. As it happens, I have 3 cousins who live near me now (far removed from their upbringing and have odd quirks but aren't overall creepy weird) who were raised and lived Amish until they were grown. My husband's FAVORITE pastime is debating why the Amish do what they do. You should HEAR them trying to explain it. You're exactly right, a whole bunch of what they do is for no apparent reason. Only one of them is able to articulate WHY they believe and live as they do. Mostly it's because...reason. BUT!!! Because I AM once removed, I can tell from years of observation and being amongst them, you are EXACTLY right with your comparison with the Duggs. (At least I think you meant to compare them!). The Amish believe they are special: set apart. That they will be rewarded for choosing to live the life, as do the Duggs. They don't go around body slamming people, or proclaiming from rooftops that they have all the answers - but that is YES, EXACTLY what they DO believe. And there is (even among the quiet and peace loving Amish) a subtle tone of I'm better than you (Na-Na-Na Boo Boo!!!). 7 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/7311-the-duggars-and-their-world-fashion-food-finance-schoolin%E2%80%99-and-child-rearin/page/19/#findComment-1379069
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