The Duggars and Their World: Fashion, Food, Finance, Schoolin’ and Child Rearin'

[queenanne]

On 6/26/2019 at 10:54 PM, Zella said:

One of the fundie families I know that I talk about on here--when the mother found out I worked at a library, she got right up in my face with this crazed look in her eyes and informed me she didn't like her kids going into libraries because you had no idea what other people were up to!

She was furious about everyone's activity not being policed. I backed out of that conversation as fast as possible because she was super unhinged, but I found it hypocritical and weirdly hilarious coming from someone who was always whining about people's personal rights being infringed and controlled by the government. Guess it only counts when they're people she agrees with. 

Is it possible she had one of those experiences where the kids went in, and some library patron(s) were watching porn on the library computers?  

(Former library assistant here)

[Scarlett45]

On 7/14/2019 at 8:48 AM, queenanne said:

Is it possible she had one of those experiences where the kids went in, and some library patron(s) were watching porn on the library computers?  

(Former library assistant here)

Yes, libraries are wonderful, but like any public space there is a chance of running into unsavory characters who are doing socially inappropriate or illegal things (public masturbation, watching porn, drug use etc). I also know many homeless persons use the library bathrooms (especially if they are single stall) to wash up and stay clean- which I understand and don’t blame them, but that’s not the intended purpose of the library restroom. 

[doodlebug]

On ‎7‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 9:48 AM, queenanne said:

Is it possible she had one of those experiences where the kids went in, and some library patron(s) were watching porn on the library computers?  

(Former library assistant here)

I think it is possible that the kids went to the library and she discovered that books like Heather has 2 Mommies, Harry Potter and the Wizard of Oz were on the shelves in the children's section and she was livid when the librarian refused to remove them.

[Zella]

Since this is all referring to an anecdote I posted a few weeks ago: this lady was offended by anything that disagreed with her. I know from working at a library that patrons viewing porn is an issue and is something that is actually a violation of library policies just about anywhere, but she never mentioned that.  Her objections had nothing to do with what a reasonable person or parent would object to.

She just basically hated the idea that her kids could roam around and see books she disapproved of or videos she disliked, and that if she complained about books she considered "bad," nobody would agree with her. Like, completely inoffensive books, movies, and Youtube videos to her were the work of satan. Someone's watching a mainstream music video that features dancing she doesn't like (with headphones on, so she's not even hearing the words)? That's what she was objecting to.

I think that's one of the hallmarks of fundamentalists. They can't just disagree with something. They can't even interact with it on a healthy level whatsoever. There's a brew of arrogance, fear, and control freakishness about their surroundings that is a truly toxic mix. They live in a self-imposed vacuum where only the likeminded are allowed in. 

Edited July 18, 2019 by Zella
elaboration :)

[Zella]

It's completely antithetical to everything a library stands for, so it is perhaps no surprise that they're not library supporters.

[kokapetl]

10 hours ago, Zella said:

Since this is all referring to an anecdote I posted a few weeks ago: this lady was offended by anything that disagreed with her. I know from working at a library that patrons viewing porn is an issue and is something that is actually a violation of library policies just about anywhere, but she never mentioned that.  Her objections had nothing to do with what a reasonable person or parent would object to.

She just basically hated the idea that her kids could roam around and see books she disapproved of or videos she disliked, and that if she complained about books she considered "bad," nobody would agree with her. Like, completely inoffensive books, movies, and Youtube videos to her were the work of satan. Someone's watching a mainstream music video that features dancing she doesn't like (with headphones on, so she's not even hearing the words)? That's what she was objecting to.

I think that's one of the hallmarks of fundamentalists. They can't just disagree with something. They can't even interact with it on a healthy level whatsoever. There's a brew of arrogance, fear, and control freakishness about their surroundings that is a truly toxic mix. They live in a self-imposed vacuum where only the likeminded are allowed in. 

I thought public libraries were forbidden from blocking (legal) porn on constitutional grounds. 

[Zella]

9 minutes ago, kokapetl said:

I thought public libraries were forbidden from blocking (legal) porn on constitutional grounds. 

My understanding is it may technically be legal, but the library can still consider it a violation of their usage policy. My library hands out a 1 year suspension if you're caught viewing porn on our computers.

Will clarify that other libraries may be more lenient on the issue than I had understood, but it is not permitted by any library I know in our area.

Edited July 19, 2019 by Zella

[Ohiopirate02]

6 hours ago, kokapetl said:

I thought public libraries were forbidden from blocking (legal) porn on constitutional grounds. 

In theory yes, but the American government passed a law called CIPA--Children's Internet Protection Act--that requires libraries to have internet filters on our computers in order to qualify for discounted internet.  Some libraries do decline that specific discount and do not have filters.  These are usually located in larger cities where there are more internet providers and the libraries can negotiate their rate.  For many of us, we live in semi-rural to rural areas with only one or two providers.  That discount is a lifesaver and allows us more money for our other expenses.  

[Minivanessa]

I know some people who are  suspicious about and hostile to the idea of their kids being exposed to *anything* they don't personally endorse, just as described above. It makes me sad and a little mad. I really wonder if they think that just by controlling their kids' lives to the nth degree, they are protecting them from evil. Or they're so fear-driven they convince themselves that's the case? I still remember reading interviews in which Boob and Michelle rattled on about how they were keeping their kids from being exposed to music with a backbeat that would be bad for them, etc. 

I don't know what's worse: that they never set foot into a public library, or that they go in and pitch a hissy fit when they see anything they don't approve of. Sigh.

About porn: I used to volunteer at our public library's central branch in the technology center - where there are 120+ computers set up available for library patrons to use (for up to 2 hours per day each). The PCs are set up at several round tables out in the middle of a large area, with the staff desk in the center. Obviously we didn't monitor all usage all the time but if we saw - or got a complaint about - a patron viewing porn, we alerted the staff and they took care of it. It happened occasionally. The library's policy is no porn on its public computers (the policy sez there's a limited number of computers where "adult" content can be viewed but I know they aren't out in the general open area). 

[Rabbittron]

3 hours ago, Jeeves said:

I know some people who are  suspicious about and hostile to the idea of their kids being exposed to *anything* they don't personally endorse, just as described above. It makes me sad and a little mad. I really wonder if they think that just by controlling their kids' lives to the nth degree, they are protecting them from evil. Or they're so fear-driven they convince themselves that's the case? I still remember reading interviews in which Boob and Michelle rattled on about how they were keeping their kids from being exposed to music with a backbeat that would be bad for them, etc. 

I don't know what's worse: that they never set foot into a public library, or that they go in and pitch a hissy fit when they see anything they don't approve of. Sigh.

About porn: I used to volunteer at our public library's central branch in the technology center - where there are 120+ computers set up available for library patrons to use (for up to 2 hours per day each). The PCs are set up at several round tables out in the middle of a large area, with the staff desk in the center. Obviously we didn't monitor all usage all the time but if we saw - or got a complaint about - a patron viewing porn, we alerted the staff and they took care of it. It happened occasionally. The library's policy is no porn on its public computers (the policy sez there's a limited number of computers where "adult" content can be viewed but I know they aren't out in the general open area). 

This sounds like the main Denver library setup.

[Ohiopirate02]

I am listening to Margaret Atwood's The Testaments while at work, and the parallels with GotHard's teachings and Gilead's are striking.  Slight spoiler here, in the book a character learns to read using old Dick and Jane books.  In the books, Jane's dress has been painted to cover her legs and arms, and a head covering is added.  I can just imagine Jana, Anna or Jilly Rod doing the same thing to books before allowing any young, impressionable minds see such sinful sights as knees on a girl.

[Churchhoney]

Ruh roh, Duggarlings and adjacents. All ye "paid influencers."

We keep reading this......One of these days it may turn out to be true. 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/online-influencers-tell-you-what-to-buy-advertisers-wonder-whos-listening-11571594003?mod=hp_lead_pos5

“All these paid posts make you question whether influencers are genuine or just doing it for the money,” said JaLynn Evans, a 19-year-old student at Virginia Commonwealth University.

The loss of trust undermines the power of influencers, according to Marcelo Camberos, Ipsy’s chief executive. “Have they peaked? I don’t know,” he said. These days, the firm is recruiting its own customers to post products—for free.

Accurately tracking the effectiveness of influencer advertising is difficult. By one measure, their influence is waning. Engagement rates, which measure the number of “likes” a post generates as a percent of a person’s followers, are down this year, compared with the same period last year, according to InfluencerDB, which makes tools to help brands manage influencer campaigns.

Shrinking Influence

Instagram influencer engagement rates* are declining. 

Average percentage of followers who like a post -- change from 2018 to 2019

Travel

Down

-3.5 pct. pts.

Food 

Down

-3.5

Lifestyle

Down

-1.8

Fashion

Down

-1.8

Beauty

Down

-1.7

Sport & fitness

Down

-1.5

“Consumers can see if someone honestly cares about a product or whether they are just trying to push it,” said Anders Ankarlid, chief executive of online stationery retailer A Good Company. “The bubble is starting to burst.”

[JoanArc]

2 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

We keep reading this......One of these days it may turn out to be true. 

I gotta wonder who's the longest-running Reality TV Family? Can we get an average time spent in the public eye? Are the Louds still around?

[Temperance]

13 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

I gotta wonder who's the longest-running Reality TV Family? Can we get an average time spent in the public eye? Are the Louds still around?

Who are the Louds? I think the Duggars in the running especially if we only count people still with reality shows. The Osbornes are still famous, although they were to some extent famous before television. 

[JoanArc]

1 minute ago, Temperance said:

Who are the Louds? I think the Duggars in the running especially if we only count people still with reality shows. The Osbornes are still famous, although they were to some extent famous before television. 

RIP to Lance

[GeeGolly]

Google says, Roloffs 2005, Kardashians 2007, Duggars 2008.

Edited October 22, 2019 by GeeGolly

[Chicklet]

The Louds started it all with the breakdowns, the arguments, and more than I can remember. First reality show when maybe they were reality. Kind of difficult to say since who knows what would have happened had we not watched.

[Temperance]

I never heard of the Louds before @JoanArc mentioned them. The Osbournes are still famous, (I think) and their show ran 2002-2005. It helps that Ozzy and Sharon were famous before television. 

[Westiepeach]

1 minute ago, Temperance said:

I never heard of the Louds before @JoanArc mentioned them. The Osbournes are still famous, (I think) and their show ran 2002-2005. It helps that Ozzy and Sharon were famous before television. 

The Loud family aired in the early 70's.

"An American Family is an American television documentary filmed from May 30 through December 31, 1971,[2] and first aired in the United States on the Public Broadcasting Service (PBS) from January 11, 1973, to March 29, 1973. After being edited down from about 300 hours of raw footage, the series ran one season of 12 episodes on Thursday nights at 9:00 p.m.

The groundbreaking documentary is considered the first "reality" series on American television. It was originally intended as a chronicle of the daily life of the Louds, an upper middle class family in Santa Barbara, California but ended up documenting the break-up of the family via the separation and subsequent divorce of parents Bill and Pat Loud."

[Sew Sumi]

8 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Google says, Roloffs 2005, Kardashians 2007, Duggars 2008.

Google didn't consider the TLC specials. Those started in 2004.

[GeeGolly]

7 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Google didn't consider the TLC specials. Those started in 2004.

Correct. It was only including series. And technically 19 Kids and Counting is no longer on. So the Roloffs win. 

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, JoanArc said:

I gotta wonder who's the longest-running Reality TV Family? Can we get an average time spent in the public eye? Are the Louds still around?

According to Wikipedia, the Louds, who first were shown in 1973, were last shown in new material in 2003, a program centered on Lance's final illness and death. So they were documented over a 30-year period (with long gaps, of course). 

....Yikes. 

Let's not tempt TLC to try to match this with the Duggs. 

[DangerousMinds]

3 hours ago, JoanArc said:

I gotta wonder who's the longest-running Reality TV Family? Can we get an average time spent in the public eye? Are the Louds still around?

I wish! I heard Bill and Pat did get remarried after years apart, though.

[DangerousMinds]

1 hour ago, DangerousMinds said:

I wish! I heard Bill and Pat did get remarried after years apart, though.

I am sad that so many didn't recognize them 😢

[Albanyguy]

7 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

I heard Bill and Pat did get remarried after years apart, though.

They did reunite. Bill died last year at age 97. I think Pat's still alive.

[Churchhoney]

Pretty sure this is the kind of stuff JB, JD, Nathan Bates and so on saw when they started buying training helicopters and (in JB's case) a fleet of old planes and talking about how they're a group dripping with trained EMTs, nurses, etc. (note the comments I heard about advertising JD's and Abbie's supposed qualifications while they were in FINLAND)......I can easily imagine the various horrors described below sounding fantastic to JIm Bob. 

(also in the article --additional alarm over these developments)....Hopefully the alarms now being sounded over this will make the Duggs/Bateses back off and try to find some other way to grift using their WWI-era planes and whirlybirds-they'll-likely-fly-with-as-little-pricey-training-as-they-can-get-away-with. 

https://www.medpagetoday.com/blogs/zdoggmd/83054?xid=nl_popmed_2019-10-31&eun=g1350510d0r&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=PopMedicine_103119&utm_term=NL_Gen_Int_PopMedicine_Active

"a lot of the air ambulances are out-of-network for patients' insurance. That's not true for Medicare and Medicaid, but every other private insurance often has a narrow network. So what ends up happening? The patient has a disaster, crashes their motorcycle, ends up on a life flight, and these air ambulance companies actually compete for business, so they're flying in pizzas for physician crews so they'll get referrals.

"At one scene that he describes in the book, an accident scene, seven different helicopters landed all trying to get the business. That's how lucrative it is. Why? Because the patient gets transported to the hospital, months later gets a bill, hospital bill, most of it covered by insurance, some surprises there... the usual. The air ambulance bill is separate. This is the portion of your bill that is not covered by insurance, $50,000, $100,000. There was one bill for $632,000 for a Learjet flight....

"The patient gets this bill in a moment when they're vulnerable. They have no decision to make. It'd be like you're driving out in the country. Your car breaks down. One tow truck guy shows up, says, "I'll take it to town for you. I'll bill you later." Before you can get your car back, he says, "Here's a bill for $30,000. If you don't pay it, I'm going to put a lien on your house. I'm going to destroy your credit. I'm going to send bill collectors after you, and by the way, you're an average American and you have $400 in your bank account." Then you wonder why the majority of bankruptcies in this country are medically related. You get this surprise bill and you don't know what to do.

"This is unconscionable. It's a kind of financial rape that these companies are perpetrating on patients when they are at their most vulnerable. Here's the worst part. If you look at the safety of the air ambulance industry over the years, the vast majority of the accidents looked at were for-profit companies because there are no quality requirements. They can fly older aircrafts. They can fly in bad weather."

[crazy8s]

37 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Pretty sure this is the kind of stuff JB, JD, Nathan Bates and so on saw when they started buying training helicopters and (in JB's case) a fleet of old planes and talking about how they're a group dripping with trained EMTs, nurses, etc. (note the comments I heard about advertising JD's and Abbie's supposed qualifications while they were in FINLAND)......I can easily imagine the various horrors described below sounding fantastic to JIm Bob. 

(also in the article --additional alarm over these developments)....Hopefully the alarms now being sounded over this will make the Duggs/Bateses back off and try to find some other way to grift using their WWI-era planes and whirlybirds-they'll-likely-fly-with-as-little-pricey-training-as-they-can-get-away-with. 

https://www.medpagetoday.com/blogs/zdoggmd/83054?xid=nl_popmed_2019-10-31&eun=g1350510d0r&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=PopMedicine_103119&utm_term=NL_Gen_Int_PopMedicine_Active

"a lot of the air ambulances are out-of-network for patients' insurance. That's not true for Medicare and Medicaid, but every other private insurance often has a narrow network. So what ends up happening? The patient has a disaster, crashes their motorcycle, ends up on a life flight, and these air ambulance companies actually compete for business, so they're flying in pizzas for physician crews so they'll get referrals.

"At one scene that he describes in the book, an accident scene, seven different helicopters landed all trying to get the business. That's how lucrative it is. Why? Because the patient gets transported to the hospital, months later gets a bill, hospital bill, most of it covered by insurance, some surprises there... the usual. The air ambulance bill is separate. This is the portion of your bill that is not covered by insurance, $50,000, $100,000. There was one bill for $632,000 for a Learjet flight....

"The patient gets this bill in a moment when they're vulnerable. They have no decision to make. It'd be like you're driving out in the country. Your car breaks down. One tow truck guy shows up, says, "I'll take it to town for you. I'll bill you later." Before you can get your car back, he says, "Here's a bill for $30,000. If you don't pay it, I'm going to put a lien on your house. I'm going to destroy your credit. I'm going to send bill collectors after you, and by the way, you're an average American and you have $400 in your bank account." Then you wonder why the majority of bankruptcies in this country are medically related. You get this surprise bill and you don't know what to do.

"This is unconscionable. It's a kind of financial rape that these companies are perpetrating on patients when they are at their most vulnerable. Here's the worst part. If you look at the safety of the air ambulance industry over the years, the vast majority of the accidents looked at were for-profit companies because there are no quality requirements. They can fly older aircrafts. They can fly in bad weather."

another area for air ambulances is elder transportation.

My grandmother in southern Texas became unable to care for herself, her health declined quite rapidly. no family or friends nearby. we found a nursing home near us in michigan.

I flew with her from Texas in an air ambulance. A small Cessna, I rode in front with the pilot and a registered nurse sat next to grandma in the back.  the nurse did administer meds several times in flight. they were very professional and caring, so probably not a job for the duggars/bates

This was about 20yrs ago and it was in the $7,000 -$10,000 range for a non emergency flight then. there is money to be made there. but not the kind of money the accident chasers get.

[drafan]

On 7/19/2019 at 2:19 AM, kokapetl said:

I thought public libraries were forbidden from blocking (legal) porn on constitutional grounds. 

Joshley, is that you?

[PikaScrewChu]

So with one baby down in Bowpalooza 2019 and Jed! 2020 in full force, I've been thinking about how the Duggars treat their children and grandchildren. I think a lot of this has come out of TI's comments about making sure his daughter is still a virgin. I went YIKES. Good way to waste all the goodwill you got from The Masked Singer. Anyway. 

Jed has only become useful out of the Howlers for JB's political ambitions. JD is useful because he's a pilot. The girls were only useful as long as they could contribute to the household and then TV ratings. Joshley was the golden child during the earlier seasons of 19 K&C and they have no problem keeping him around. The other sons are wandering around aimless it seems. 

We're seeing a repeat of the next gen copying their parents. Felicity may not be living the life her mom had growing up, but she's being paraded around the way her mom was. Joe and Kendra have popped out another one despite Kendra admitting she was overwhelmed with Garrett. I think we are going to see a lot of parralels between JB and Meech and their kids' married lives as the years go on. 

Most of the Duggar granddaughters will likely never have the opportunity to do "normal" things. If their parents keep going at this rate, they will have to be married off ASAP so their parents have one less mouth to feed. The grandsons will not get any meaningful education due to a distrust of public schooling. I imagine a few of them will end up like the Lost Boys of the FLDS. 

It is sad and infuriating. Why is this still acceptable in 2019? 

[kokapetl]

Small plane crashes in Texas during 'gender reveal' stunt 

[Sew Sumi]

This is getting ridiculous.

[GeeGolly]

4 hours ago, kokapetl said:

Small plane crashes in Texas during 'gender reveal' stunt 

I believe there was another one involving explosives and the grandmother died.

[doodlebug]

28 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I believe there was another one involving explosives and the grandmother died.

I saw the grandmother one on the news.  Some maroon decided to take a metal pipe and fill it with colored powder and explosives; in other words, they built a pipe bomb and killed Grandma.  And, of course, the whole reason for doing it was so that they could get footage to post online.

https://www.newsweek.com/accidental-pipe-bomb-gender-reveal-party-kills-56-year-old-grandmother-1468259

[galaxygirl76]

Can we just go back to filling a cake with the desired color.

[doodlebug]

1 minute ago, galaxygirl76 said:

Can we just go back to filling a cake with the desired color.

Better yet, let's go back to waiting for the kid to be born and taking a peek below the equator before putting the first diaper on.

[GeeGolly]

14 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

Better yet, let's go back to waiting for the kid to be born and taking a peek below the equator before putting the first diaper on.

Or hanging a ring off a chain and seeing which direction it swings. 😄

[doodlebug]

8 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Or hanging a ring off a chain and seeing which direction it swings. 😄

I'm a scientist, so I prefer the pee on Drano method.

[PikaScrewChu]

46 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

I'm a scientist, so I prefer the pee on Drano method.

Killing a rabbit seems much more accurate. 

[Ohiopirate02]

1 hour ago, doodlebug said:

Better yet, let's go back to waiting for the kid to be born and taking a peek below the equator before putting the first diaper on.

The only problem with that is baby clothes are ridiculously gendered.  Unless you buy everything online, all stores that sell onesies and sleepers have 2 separate sections.  Target, Kohls, Carter's,  Old Navy, etc are all set up that way.  

[GeeGolly]

5 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

The only problem with that is baby clothes are ridiculously gendered.  Unless you buy everything online, all stores that sell onesies and sleepers have 2 separate sections.  Target, Kohls, Carter's,  Old Navy, etc are all set up that way.  

That's only a problem if you care if your boy wears pink or your girl wears blue.

[doodlebug]

31 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

The only problem with that is baby clothes are ridiculously gendered.  Unless you buy everything online, all stores that sell onesies and sleepers have 2 separate sections.  Target, Kohls, Carter's,  Old Navy, etc are all set up that way.  

This is true, but it didn't used to be that way.  A few years ago, one of my colleagues was pregnant and we had a little luncheon/shower for her at work.  She chose not to find out the gender, despite being a doctor, imagine that!  I went to the local Carter's outlet and couldn't find a single regular newborn outfit that wasn't clearly meant for one sex or the other.  Blue outfits with trucks and trains, pink outfits with bunnies and flowers.  Luckily, she was due early November and I found a first Thanksgiving onesie with a turkey on it.

[PikaScrewChu]

There are companies specifically doing gender neutral stuff. It's just really pricey. A lot of people were pregnant this year. Yeah... You have to order ahead of time big time. One of my orders almost didn't make it in time for one baby shower. 😬

It's so strange to me because I am not that old and my mom dressed me in a variety of colors. My sister was a "girly-girl" (she wore bows that would rival Felicity Vuolo's) but absolutely refused to wear pink and pastels. My mom had no issue finding clothes for her either. She still refuses to wear pink and pastels and is the biggest "girly-girl" I know.

Although I suppose it makes sense from a marketing perspective I suppose. Less choice means not needing a variety of stock on which you could potentially lose money and all that...

[awaken]

I didn’t find out for any of my kids and had no problem clothing them. 

[GeeGolly]

5 hours ago, awaken said:

I didn’t find out for any of my kids and had no problem clothing them. 

Me either. I had my kids when ultrasounds were on the newish side. Most of my friends had them, but I chose to wait.

I had a lot of white onesies and a lot of sleepers in mint green, white with animals, as well as some pinks, blues and yellows. My kids wore whatever fit and whatever was clean, although I found it much easier to dress them in 'gender matching' clothing when out in public to avoid lengthy conversations when asked if they were boys or girls.

[Snow Fairy]

I think gender specific clothes become more prominent in the last years.

What annoys me is that lots of girl clothing is pink. Come on, give some variety. Green, brown, yellow clothes is harder to find.

I have a boy and a girl. She wears her brother's clothes, but if he was younger, I don't know if I would actually dress him in girly and pink clothes

[Temperance]

Echoing the people who have trouble finding gender neutral clothing. We tried to find reasonably priced gender neutral clothing for fundie friends who insist on having baby showers ahead of time and waiting to find out the sex. It was impossible. We gave up and bought baby books. So did a lot of people. Even ten years ago, it wasn't this hard to find neutral clothes. 

I personally would find out if the sex if I was having a child. I wouldn't do a reveal; just find out.  I felt bad for a baby whose mother wanted to "be surprised" and "was sure she was having a boy".  Of course they had a girl. Even the Duggars find out the sex ahead of time, these people reminded me of the Duggars. 

[Snow Fairy]

Today I read an article about a pregnant women in UK somewhere who went to 8 ultrasounds where doctors said she is having a girl (she has 2 older girls too). They bought everything girly,and then when she was 38/39 weeks pregnant, just before labour, they said it was a boy. And it was.

That has to be a shock.

[Churchhoney]

Just FYI, here's the story of the woman who was roofied and raped as a Master's University student in 2006 and the "we all stick together" response of people allied with the University and the Seminary. 

http://www.brentdetwiler.com/brentdetwilercom/the-account-of-john-macarthur-rick-hollands-horrific-handlin.html

[Churchhoney]

Uh-oh. The Duggs may have to find a new restaurant. 

https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/18/business/chick-fil-a-lgbtq-donations/index.html

Chick-fil-A will no longer donate to anti-LGBTQ organizations

[Barb23]

I've been going through old family photos & came across one of my sister & I in our late teens, early twenties. We could have been Duggar girls-- we both had on jean skirts & flip flops & had the curly hair of the 80's.