S01.E10: Bedwomb

[formerlyfreedom]

Plum delves deeper into the fractured, perilous world of Jennifer; her new mission is threatened by a sudden change of circumstance.

[Ottis]

It’s a fractured world, alright. Sadly, it’s also one I don’t care much about. Crazy Leeta, whatever. Chatty Jennifer, not interested. I still don’t know how any of these people killed anyone. I guess maybe others did, based on Soledad’s comment about having “tough friends.”

It’s amazing to me how almost every episode they have Plum say something that *is* interesting (the opening comments about having to live with fractured parts of yourself, then the discussion with Sofia about how fat people being unhealthy is a myth)... and then they abandon it almost immediately. Stunningly consistent with that.

The shot of Jennifer all sleeping together was visually terrific, along with the music. 

I don’t know what they do all day.

So men are as screwed up as we are... so we kill them? At least there is an acknowledgement that some guys are OK. 

I don’t trust that FBI agent at all about “protecting” Verena.  Of course, it’s a dude. 

I didn’t like Plum’s “status quo” part, either. She capitulated too soon. The updating the OS was pretty good. 

 Cheryl and her little “not the right home for me” passive aggressiveness. Proving Kitty’s point. 

Verena and her smug little smile. Ugh. 

What? They arrested Julia and never checked the Beauty Closet? Where Leeta is? Ridiculous. 

Need to look up that PG song. 

[formerlyfreedom]

The site rule is to be civil to your fellow posters; insulting posters or demanding that they 'prove' their posts is no civil, and doing so may result in sanctions. Please respect each other while posting. Thank you.

[HunterHunted]

I know that some people online were upset with Verena for ratting Jennifer out to the FBI, but I don't think people would be cool with a mainstream organization not telling law enforcement about a terrorist faction. People are constantly harping on regular Muslim individuals to inform police about terrorists within their midst. However, the smugness and self-satisfaction with which ﹰVerena expressed herself was thoroughly offputting, especially knowing that Julia and her sisters had cut ties with Jennifer and were attempting to stop Jennifer.

Has Plum said anything truly worthy of the revered  position she seems to occupy within Jennifer?

Kitty is the worst. She's going to privately continue her copycat Jennifer work so she can protect her position. Way to do it for the sisterhood. She only aligns herself with others if it feeds her boundless ego and narcissism.

How did everyone miss crazy Leeta?

Dominic split from his wife? When did that happen? Or is he just feeding Kitty a line too?

[voiceover]

So: what is up with those snaps??  I was waiting for them to break out into a chorus from West Side Story ("When you're a Jet you're a Jet all the way...")  That meeting was like a front page article from the Onion.  

I meant to post this in defense of Dominic last week.  He doesn't appear to have fans around here.  And who knows if he and Plum can or should ever connect.  But they have more in common than love for her chocolate cake.

Plum's job was pretending to be Kitty.  She was the editor's voice.  But she obviously cared for "Kitty's Girls".  Dominic was an undercover detective.  His job was getting Plum to trust him.  But he obviously cared for her.  Case in point: he bailed her out of that assault charge when he could've ignored her -- she'd turned on him, after all, and his cover was blown.

Yes he was married.  But he didn't take her to bed/put the moves on her/tell her he loved her.  So I can't embrace the "Dominic is a dick!" line.  And the show has coyly hidden his previous crimes -- if they were crimes -- and whatever he did to destroy his marriage.  His FiL seems more a dick in this case.  And unless he hit her -- or was a drunk -- why did Mrs Dominic take the kids & bolt with no face-to-face explanation?

Too many story gaps.  TPTB expect the audience to do the work.  But they haven't met us halfway.  Who is the character here, we're meant to identify with?  The suicide-by-FBI was shot as if it were supposed to affect me.  I wasn't even sure which one she was!  Most profoundly annoying, all this time, I couldn't figure out if Plum was a clever girl or a useful idiot.  And, with the season over, I still don't know.

That's not enough to bring me back.  Except for P&D, they all kind of disgust me.

[ichbin]

So a person hired to do the kind of job Dominic is doing for Kitty would have to punch a time clock?  That was the thing which interested me the most in this episode.  I think that says it all.  Wish this show would decide just exactly what it wants to be.

25 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

Dominic split from his wife? When did that happen? Or is he just feeding Kitty a line too?

That happened an episode or two ago.  She left him and that news was conveyed to him by his father-in-law.

[Miles]

Meh. I really don't need another season of this. So much potential, so wasted.

 

2 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

I know that some people online were upset with Verena for ratting Jennifer out to the FBI, but I don't think people would be cool with a mainstream organization not telling law enforcement about a terrorist faction.

I think it was blatant manipulation by the show. Jennifer was portrayed as rightous, while Verane was shown with her smug self-satisfied smile walking down the street.

Verena probably did do it for the wrong reasons, not to get justice done, but to stroke her own ego that was wounded by Plum disrupting her perfect little cult, where she sets people up with rapists, only to be then able to prey on them, when they are down. But even if she did it for the wrong reasons, it was still the right thing to do.

Also I was confused. I thought the sisters were saying they were going to the feds to protect their families. Did the writers just forget about that?

 

2 hours ago, voiceover said:

So: what is up with those snaps??  I was waiting for them to break out into a chorus from West Side Story ("When you're a Jet you're a Jet all the way...")  That meeting was like a front page article from the Onion.  

It's an alternative to clapping, since people get triggered by claps now. I wish I was making that up.

Edited July 31, 2018 by Miles

[BooBear]

3 hours ago, Miles said:

Meh. I really don't need another season of this. So much potential, so wasted.

Yes I will not be watching. I can't believe how bad the finale was.  Just more of the same. Men suck, I was raped, oh Plumb your our hero... err why? I really hate the way Plum's being overweight was pushed to the side and not explored in favor of more generic women and rape stories.  

First, I don't really understand why we are still hanging out at Daisy Chain.  Now that Plum isn't working there why do we care? It seemed like they had Leena return there as an excuse to bring the action back there.

 The show hit on a really interesting moment here and then failed to explore it at all.. when Soledad told Plum to get her fat ass moving.  So I guess even the "heros" can be insulting when it suits them. But Plum chooses them?  Because she is immature.   I was fully expecting that to be the moment when Plum wakes up and left... but no. 

You know.. Dominic.. STFU. You just got out of your marriage and now you need a good fat girl to make you dinner. Please. 

Did we ever get an explanation for Julia and her sisters? Why were they funding Jennifer and why was Julia working for Daisy Chain?

The entire Jennifer unmasking thing didn't work. First, the papers are not in the habit of getting such information until the police have moved in. So there is no way a random Jennifer would have been tipped off before the FBI descended.  Second, I guess the show doesn't have a budget but law enforcement has all kinds of tricks to find people such as infrared cameras from helicopters. No way would they just have gone out the back. 

When they were all getting arrested, I was saying "good".  When that one Jennifer got shot... can't say I was too upset. 

So was Verena's entire reason for being in this show to turn Jennifer in?

[JudyObscure]

I had looked forward to this show so much, I thought it was going to explore weight issues, fat acceptance, sexism and ageism.  I thought it would expose the lies of the billion dollar diet industry, properly ridicule the superficial world of fashion, and makes us laugh.  Now I'm just glad it's over.

[Ottis]

The one who was shot was the angry ex-military woman who had been pushing Plum. Trope: The angry warrior always dies, usually because she or he can’t live any other way and when the jig is up, they choose to go out. 

ITA about Plum not saying anything when Soledad told her to move her far ass. She clearly noted it, and considers it... and then didn’t bring it up. It didn’t have to be a heart to heart but seems like some kind of line should have been spoken. Otherwise we’re left to assume that sometimes it’s OK to say things like that, and if that’s true, what’s the point of the show again?

Edited July 31, 2018 by Ottis

[For Cereals]

2 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I had looked forward to this show so much, I thought it was going to explore weight issues, fat acceptance, sexism and ageism.  I thought it would expose the lies of the billion dollar diet industry, properly ridicule the superficial world of fashion, and makes us laugh.  Now I'm just glad it's over.

So much this and further upthread about Plum being easy prey for a cult.  First Verena and now Jennifer.  Once they accepted Plum, all was good.  It doesn’t dawn on her that these women are killers.  I see you show trying to make it more sympathetic when they were sharing their stories in the saddest game of Truth or Dare ever, but that doesn’t justify their actions.  I was hoping for a little growth on Plum’s part after the “fat ass” comment and her taking some sort of stand or coming to some realization, but she stopped because “running is hard,” not because “I don’t need this crap/shouldn’t be doing this.”  That would’ve been a better conclusion to the “woke” commentary/foreshadowing.   

Based on what I’ve seen of Jennifer, not sure how Leeta ended up in the state she’s in unless it was a reaction to witnessing and being part of murder or maybe not having access to meds for an extended period, but still.  Seems a bit extreme.

[bobbyjoe]

“I genuinely thought this would be more fun.”  — Julianna Margulies’ character on this week’s finale, unintentionally describing the entire series.

[SunnyBeBe]

There are a lot of good points above.  The viewers just got robbed with this series, imo.  I would think it would be an embarrassmemt for the cast.....we'll see. 

What struck me was how the show portrayed Jennifer.  They just seemed to appear as low information, anti-social, rogue vigilantes.  They thought Plum was a real intellectual and well prepared to lead them to victory.  I suppose that they didn't know any better.  I suppose that actual intellectual and politically minded feminists were not open to Jennifer-like tactics.   I was STILL surprised when after Jennifer  announcing the plot to kill the city official, Plum said she agreed with that PLAN!  Plum, that is really a very serious crime and you could get the death penalty for it.  Plum acts like a child on a scavenger hunt, with no conscience.  Are we to believe that she's a sociopath?  That official may not have committed any crimes against women and he may be the father and husband to innocent people.  Her callousness is mind boggling. 

When Dominic left Plum that voice message at the end, I just wondered if he really knows Plum.  She's not that good of a person, imo.  

It annoyed me that the fat ass insults that render some men worthy of punishment, are tolerated by the show when it comes from Jennifer. 

So, if Julia couldn't get Leeta out of the building without being detected, how did Dominic do it? 

Edited July 31, 2018 by SunnyBeBe

[leto]

5 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I had looked forward to this show so much, I thought it was going to explore weight issues, fat acceptance, sexism and ageism.  I thought it would expose the lies of the billion dollar diet industry, properly ridicule the superficial world of fashion, and makes us laugh.  Now I'm just glad it's over.

Word! Those are the reasons I started watching too. Unfortunately, not only did the show fail to explore those things, my lasting impression of the show is that, through bad writing, it managed to minimize those struggles more than anything else. Plum never lived up to the hype of a smart, strong woman (that we kept being told she was, but never shown through her actions) marginalized by society because of her weight, Kitty was just an awful caricature of a human being, and I still have no idea what Jennifer was supposed to be about, and why they would want wishy-washy Plum to join up. 

[jrlr]

I really wanted to like this show, but it's impossible.  Bad writing, inconsistency in every area of plotting and characterization, lack of focus and a lead who becomes increasingly unhinged and dislikeable - not exactly a recipe for success.  If there is a message here about self-acceptance, having Plum become a member of a cult that kills people in order to show how "woke" she is is one weird message.  What a mess, and what a disappointment.

[Miles]

1 minute ago, icemiser69 said:

Why did Verena do it now?  Why didn't she do it much earlier when she first heard about it?  What changed?

I think because the acid victim (sorry don't remember her name and she doesn't have much personality) confronted her about how they treated Plum, after she had made a (very stupid) mistake.

That confornatation either happened this episode or at the end of last episode. Can't remember. But it was relatively soon after that she went to the FBI, in show-time.

Basically the whole Jennifer-thing disrupted her perfect little cult since now the women actually started to stand up and she couldn't have it.

[atlantaloves]

well, THAT HAPPENED...God this show ended up being so damn bad. And, I really really liked the first couple of episodes, and stuck it out to the end, mainly because I just could not believe it was so horrible. Oh ladies, that finger snapping instead of clapping thing they did goes way back to the early 50's with the "beat generation" they snapped their fingers in coffee houses after listening to a poem instead of clapping. Seriously, it's true. I am old enough to remember the beatniks Daddy-o. 

Once again the after show was actually wonderful. Oh well. I hope it is not renewed, so far no word. 

[SunnyBeBe]

I don't know if there are any answers to these questions, but:

When Leeta said goodbye to Plum a while ago and said that Plum could go looking for her one day, is that when she went into hiding inside the basement?  And, was she on meds then?  Did she continue to take them until she recently stopped and had meltdown, got Julia's attention?  How did the psychiatric meds take affect so quick?  I thought they took days or weeks to kick in.

When the hardnose Jennifer person said that the others could run for 30 minutes, did she know about the large lady who spoke with Plum, right before they laid down in the communal bed? She didn't seem to be that taunt.

When the Jennifer woman was shot and laying on the ground, for a moment, I thought it might be Plum and for an instant thought it might be a good ending.  That means the show has some big problems. 

[MBayGal]

15 hours ago, Miles said:

17 hours ago, voiceover said:

So: what is up with those snaps??  I was waiting for them to break out into a chorus from West Side Story ("When you're a Jet you're a Jet all the way...")  That meeting was like a front page article from the Onion.  

It's an alternative to clapping, since people get triggered by claps now. I wish I was making that up.

Back on the 60s, when Beatniks gathered in coffee houses for poetry or jazz or whatever, people sometimes snapped instead of clapping.  I thought that had gone the way of, well, the 60s.  But now it's because people are triggered?!!!  Lord help us, what's next?

Now I see AtlantaReads already posted this info, but she said it was in the 50s, which I think is right. 

Edited July 31, 2018 by MBayGal
Adding correccted info from earlier poster

[ichbin]

1 hour ago, atlantaloves said:

Oh ladies, that finger snapping instead of clapping thing they did goes way back to the early 50's with the "beat generation" they snapped their fingers in coffee houses after listening to a poem instead of clapping. Seriously, it's true. I am old enough to remember the beatniks Daddy-o. 

I'm not sure if that's better or worse than the "jazz hands" a group in the UK was requesting in lieu of clapping at a conference a few years ago to avoid triggering. I know about the beatnik snapping.  Have a feeling that wasn't being done because of clapping being a trigger though.  

10 hours ago, BooBear said:

The show hit on a really interesting moment here and then failed to explore it at all.. when Soledad told Plum to get her fat ass moving.

I didn't get that at all.  I imagine it was included in the scene for a reason, but I'm really unclear about why.  I can't figure if the writers are backing any horse in this mess.  

 

11 hours ago, BooBear said:

First, I don't really understand why we are still hanging out at Daisy Chain.  Now that Plum isn't working there why do we care?

At this point I find the publishing world aspect and corporate shenanigans much more interesting than anything else going on.  

[SunnyBeBe]

Did anyone else wonder if Dominic was really hired by Stanley, to get in tight with Kitty so he could figure out her scheme and sabotage her? 

[atlantaloves]

To Mybaygal: what does "triggered" mean? Hey, I'm old, but I still need to be WOKE. 

[jrlr]

27 minutes ago, atlantaloves said:

To Mybaygal: what does "triggered" mean? Hey, I'm old, but I still need to be WOKE. 

Apparently, so do I - I have no idea what clapping is supposed to trigger.

[nikita]

9 hours ago, For Cereals said:

she stopped because “running is hard,” not because “I don’t need this crap/shouldn’t be doing this.”

The car was not that far away. I took that to mean we were supposed to believe she did decide she shouldn't continue with Jennifer, not that running was too hard. But they could've made it much clearer.

Edited July 31, 2018 by nikita

[BooBear]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Did anyone else wonder if Dominic was really hired by Stanley, to get in tight with Kitty so he could figure out her scheme and sabotage her? 

Ahh, I just didn't care that much.

So what did I learn from Dietland

• Fat girls are immature-virgins who are easily lead around because of their inexperience. 
• Killing a man is good.. most men... good good good. 
• If you want to success and to be the CEO of Austin Media.. you need to be a conniving skeleton with a red wig. 
• If you are bored, rich and have two husbands... start a cult. After all L. Ron Hubbard did it!
• If you are fat don't bother dreaming about Prince Charming... you need to look out for the alcoholic ex husband who was fired off the force.
• The FBI routinely releases information to the press about public enemy number one BEFORE they have them in custody. 
• If you want to make a point.. kill first and THEN get a writer to write your story.

What did you learn?

[voiceover]

1 hour ago, MBayGal said:

Back on the 60s, when Beatniks gathered in coffee houses for poetry or jazz or whatever, people sometimes snapped instead of clapping.  I thought that had gone the way of, well, the 60s.  

That scene also brought a Season 1 ep of Happy Days to mind...the boys visit a coffeehouse, and a poetry reading (slam?) is going on.  I vaguely remember part of the poem: "Little bird/with your beak pressed up against the pet store window/There is no birdseed here for you today/...only death."  Then everyone did the fingersnaps. 

So I laughed all the way through that part.  Probably not the result intended.

[For Cereals]

13 minutes ago, nikita said:

The car was not that far away. I took that to mean we were supposed to believe she did decide she shouldn't continue with Jennifer, not that running was too hard. But they could've made it much clearer.

I meant before she decided to get in the car, when they were still in the warehouse and she said “I can’t do this” or something to that effect, but then she changed her mind and ran after the car.  The reflection they showed in the animation was her going back to her life and not being part of something exciting.  Not anything about just being told to move her “fat ass” and coming to the realization that the judgement is everywhere, that when it hits the fan, Jennifer isn’t about this loving environment and that she doesn’t need to be part of their cult.

[meep.meep]

40 minutes ago, jrlr said:

Apparently, so do I - I have no idea what clapping is supposed to trigger.

I'm old too.  I looked it up.  Apparently at some conference in 2015, the organizers asked everyone to snap their fingers instead of clap because someone's anxiety would be triggered by clapping.

There were probably twice as many people who had something triggered by snapping fingers - that's what my Mom used to do to get our attention when she was mad at us.

[HunterHunted]

1 hour ago, atlantaloves said:

To Mybaygal: what does "triggered" mean? Hey, I'm old, but I still need to be WOKE. 

It means when something causes an involuntary emotional response. For example, watching Plum get date raped might cause you to experience the feelings you had when you were similarly assaulted.

[SunnyBeBe]

I thought that her self reflection animation towards the end of her proudly announcing that she is a bad ass and ready to kick butt was incredibly insensitive and disrespectful.  Her comrade had just given her life for her and the other woman and instead of reflecting on that selfless act, she has to let her own ego inflate.  And, the woman who is helping her escape is hanging back, going slower than she has to in order for Plum to keep up, but, Plum's whole focus is how tough she is, when all she could do was follow and squeal in fright.  I have no idea why they stopped the car for her.  She's not really a team player, imo.  

Edited August 1, 2018 by SunnyBeBe

[tennisgurl]

Anyway, it really says something when a show that is about huge issues like obesity, body acceptance, violence, rape, abuse, gender identities, and tons of stuff that should generate big discussions, is mostly getting chatter about snapping. I just have no idea what the point of this show turned out to be. The Jennifer people are exactly who I expected them to be, and not at all who I expected them to be. They all have rape and abuse backstories, which I figured, but they also seem kind of dumb, not like people who could do all of this on their own. They fly planes, and kidnap and murder people in super dramatic ways, and have held the nations assholes (and sex workers, who deserve to die?) hostage in their own terror for months, avoiding a massive manhunt from multiple government organizations? But they also seem like just a bunch of random women who love to wear dark colored clothing, and act like me and my sorority sisters do when we get together for Alumni weekend, complete with plastic necklaces, wine, snaps, and truth or dare, not criminal masterminds. No wonder they think that Plum is a genius. 

I do like many things about Plum, and she often has very interesting things to say...but she also seems pretty slow on the uptake, and vulnerable to anyone who says something even remotely nice to her. Its sad, she has such low self esteem, that any cult that tells her how cool she is will get her trust instantly, despite the many red flags flying. Now I wish we had more backstory to Plum. Her dad was out of the picture, her mom was in better shape than her, and thats it. How did she get to this point, beyond being overweight? Its not like all overweight women are so desperate for attention that they are either joining cults left and right, or hiding out in their apartment 24/7, so what else went onto Plum?

I thought Plum would leave when Soladad said the thing about her fat ass. Honestly, again, what is this show about? Whats the point? Are we going to get to something next season? I might check it out, to see if things get better (it has such a great concept), but if it doesn't get better, I will check out pretty fast.

Edited August 1, 2018 by tennisgurl

[Linderhill]

6 hours ago, atlantaloves said:

well, THAT HAPPENED...God this show ended up being so damn bad. And, I really really liked the first couple of episodes, and stuck it out to the end, mainly because I just could not believe it was so horrible. Oh ladies, that finger snapping instead of clapping thing they did goes way back to the early 50's with the "beat generation" they snapped their fingers in coffee houses after listening to a poem instead of clapping. Seriously, it's true. I am old enough to remember the beatniks Daddy-o. 

Once again the after show was actually wonderful. Oh well. I hope it is not renewed, so far no word. 

I enjoyed the aftershow too.  Tamara did announce that they were coming back for a second season when Aisha first spoke to her.

[SunnyBeBe]

I'm not inclined to return for a season two of this show, because, I wouldn't expect the writing to be any better, AND, everything is so screwed up now, that, I'm not sure how they would have a satisfying resolution.  Killers may escape arrest (like on the show The Americans) if they are smart enough and have the resources and connections to go to a foreign country for their rest of their lives, but, I can't envision that for Plum.  I can't see her getting a psychiatric defense, so that leaves her with a likely long prison sentence or worse.  That's sort of depressing, because, Plum doesn't seem to get it or even care. That only leaves a Thelma and Louise ending....not good, imo.  

Edited August 1, 2018 by SunnyBeBe

[Iguessnot]

Finally watched my recording last night. Dreadful.

[JudyObscure]

14 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

My sorority snapped when people said something cool or we agreed with because it was quieter and we met in the library, and ended quicker to move onto the next point, and that was just a few years ago. And we just thought it sounded better. I thought it was somewhat common, not something utterly shocking and weird to do, or only something beatniks did. I googled around when I read the responses here, and most of the articles I found are all about this one UK conference in 2015, and either just saying it happened and far right anti feminists complaining about snowflakes and such.

My book club meets in the library and we neither clap nor snap, we just nod to show approval. 

I'm not a far right anti-feminist, rather an old second wave feminist who spent years volunteering with NOW task forces trying to convince companies and school boards that women can and should be considered for management positions because, no, we would not burst into tears over every little upset or have to quit when we got pregnant.  Sometimes it seems to me that the third wave has been busy making liars of us, because it's no longer about what women are capable of doing but of all the little special considerations we require. Talk of things that can't be done because they might "trigger," us is just one example.

[meep.meep]

4 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

I won't be convinced that Dietland is coming back until I read that they are filming new episodes.  There has  been a series or two in the not too distant past where a show was renewed and cancelled before it went back into production.  I am not talking about Roseanne.

I don't know why this series would be coming back.  I have read a lot of comments at a lot sites and the vast majority of posters have a negative opinion of Dietland.  Probably somewhere around 90% at a minimum negative.

Over at tvline, the two most recent articles about Dietland have very few comments.

I am also beginning to wonder if it is not only a writing issue, but also a lead actress issue.  If a different actress was playing Plum, would the series be any better?  Perhaps it would be.

The ratings for episode ten are better than the ratings for episode nine worse than episode eight.

They finally did add in the DVR numbers for the first eight weeks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietland_(TV_series)#Ratings

I think the lead actress, Joy Nash, is very good.  It's the writing that's terrible.  I won't watch a second season if it gets made.  This is just wallowing in all the bad things that might happen to women.  And I'm a bleeding-heart liberal, dyed-in-the-wool feminist, supported myself since I was 17, believer in women's rights.

[SunnyBeBe]

I was delighted to see Tamra Tunie in this series, BUT, I was also quite pleased to see Campbell Scott. (Son of George C. Scott and Collen Dewhurst. Both very famous actors.) Scott, who has built his own career in acting, has been one of my favorite actors for years.  He's rather unassuming, but, quite impressive, imo.  The role of Stephen here, didn't really really give him much to sink his teeth into, but, that's okay.  He has a very impressive resume, with both film and tv.  You may recall him from the series Damages.  He jokes that some consider him a boring actor.  He's married now, but, has dated and co-starred with the outstanding actress (another of my favorites) Patricia Clarkson. Photo at link below.

https://www.google.com/search?q=campbell+scott+and+patricia+clarkson&rlz=1C1CAFA_enUS634US634&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=q7weUTVUxUlE8M%3A%2CVn2KrAO1VsSIoM%2C_&usg=AFrqEzehz6lHbpoYoyKBlRRsRkO0Er7MSQ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi3_KWOrMzcAhUBwVkKHeCFCksQ9QEwAXoECAYQBg#imgrc=98ACU8ymoVmZbM:

Edited August 1, 2018 by SunnyBeBe

[stacyasp]

Putting on a stocking cap, a pea coat and combat boots does not make you a bad ass,  had high hopes for this show but what a stinker! Will not be watching if there is a season 2?

[meep.meep]

2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I was delighted to see Tamra Tunie in this series, BUT, I was also quite pleased to see Campbell Scott. (Son of George C. Scott and Collen Dewhurst. Both very famous actors.) Scott, who has built his own career in acting, has been one of my favorite actors for years.  He's rather unassuming, but, quite impressive, imo.  The role of Stephen here, didn't really really give him much to sink his teeth into, but, that's okay.  He has a very impressive resume, with both film and tv.  You may recall him from the series Damages.  He jokes that some consider him a boring actor.  He's married now, but, has dated and co-starred with the outstanding actress (another of my favorites) Patricia Clarkson. Photo at link below.

Maybe because he played Stanley......

[MBayGal]

"my office does snapping because its easier than clapping for everyone".  Maybe not everyone -- I have enough arthritis in my right hand that it can't make an audible snap.  Left hand still works fairly well.

"Sometimes it seems to me that the third wave has been busy making liars of us, because it's no longer about what women are capable of doing but of all the little special considerations we require. Talk of things that can't be done because they might "trigger," us is just one example."  I agree with JudyObscure, tho I don't think fear of being "triggered" is only among young women.  It seems like there are snowflakes of both sexes.  Recently a young woman's car went over a cliff and after she was rescued, the paper printed an excerpt from her blog or F/B page, and she had begun it with a Trigger Warning!  How can people who can't even read about someone else's pain or trauma survive their own?  

And back to our regularly scheduled show:  yeah, I was hugely disappointed in the show, and glad to see it is not just me who couldn't see what the point of it was.

[tennisgurl]

8 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I'm not a far right anti-feminist, rather an old second wave feminist who spent years volunteering with NOW task forces trying to convince companies and school boards that women can and should be considered for management positions

Apologies if it sounded like I was accusing you or anyone of anything, really didnt mean to. I was just pointing out what I found online, and if I sounded annoyed, it was mostly because I was irrittated with the show. Interesting to read how the clapping instead of snapping can be read so different by so many different people, it never occurred to me that it was an odd thing, or had anything to do with triggers. I guess when the oldest person in your office is in their mid 30s, you get in a bit of a bubble. Personally, I think that sometimes a trigger warning is fine (maybe putting a warning on a book that has a super graphic rape scene in it, just so people know whats up, especially if its for a class or something) but other things, like the aforementioned clapping, seems over the top. People have been making it through stuff for years, I think we will be alright. But, I dont consider myself an expert or anything, so take that with a grain of salt.

Edited August 1, 2018 by tennisgurl
I just need to stop upsetting people.

[ichbin]

10 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

I am also beginning to wonder if it is not only a writing issue, but also a lead actress issue.  If a different actress was playing Plum, would the series be any better?  Perhaps it would be.

Nah, I don't think any actress could make this series better.  In my opinion it is the writing and direction that is to blame.  This doesn't taint Joy Nash for me because I will always think of her as Senorita Dido in Twin Peaks instead of this....well, whatever this was.

[Token]

Wow, I don't think I've ever reached the end of a season of a TV series and not liked any of the characters in it.  Not one of them.

I started out loving this show, because it resonated so much with me, and then it quickly went to shit.  I don't identify with Plum at all anymore.  She is a loser.  And it's not because she's fat, it's because she's just a selfish and unlikable idiot.  She doesn't even have a good sob story, like the other members of Jennifer.

I've never read the book, but are the characters this hateful in it too?

[ItsHelloPattiagain]

Quote

Oh ladies, that finger snapping instead of clapping thing they did goes way back to the early 50's with the "beat generation" they snapped their fingers in coffee houses after listening to a poem instead of clapping. Seriously, it's true. I am old enough to remember the beatniks Daddy-o. 

I'm obsessed with old musicals and there's some finger snapping in part of "Bells Are Ringing" with Judy Holliday where she tries to connect with some cool beatnik types. That's all I could think of when they were snapping, which meant the dialogue and characters weren't engaging enough to make me think of them instead of hilarious finger snapping.

I also stuck with the show because I wanted to see if it would get better. Unfortunately Plum swung from one extreme to another - got massively "woke" then back to doormat, lather, rinse, repeat. 

[tennisgurl]

On 7/31/2018 at 5:11 PM, BooBear said:

What did you learn?

I learned that women are basically either desperate and sad because they cant get a man, manipulative and power hungry because they have to fight past the men, or are murderous terrorists because they've been abused by evil men. Basically, every woman's life totally revolves around men. 

[JudyObscure]

12 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Apologies if it sounded like I was accusing you or anyone of anything, really didnt mean to.

 

No, no Tennisgurl, nothing you said offended me -- I think the words "far right anti-feminist" triggered my rant button --it's  very touchy. :)

11 hours ago, Token said:

 

I started out loving this show, because it resonated so much with me, and then it quickly went to shit.  I don't identify with Plum at all anymore.  She is a loser.  And it's not because she's fat, it's because she's just a selfish and unlikable idiot.  She doesn't even have a good sob story, like the other members of Jennifer.

 

I know, I was right with Plum while she was deciding not to have the surgery, but then she did the dumb graffiti thing, I was glad she stood up to Kitty, but surprised she expected to still work for her.  Time after time she learned something important but then acted on it in a stupid way, like giving fetish man a second date. What finally turned me completely off her was the giggling, overly pleased way she acted with the Jennifer women.  Sort of like the unpopular girl who's been grudgingly allowed to hang with the popular girls.

9 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I learned that women are basically either desperate and sad because they cant get a man, manipulative and power hungry because they have to fight past the men, or are murderous terrorists because they've been abused by evil men. Basically, every woman's life totally revolves around men. 

Well said.  We waited for Plum to become confident in herself and she just became a group follower, seeking Jennifer's  approval instead of men's approval, but still centered around men.

[Ottis]

13 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I learned that women are basically either desperate and sad because they cant get a man, manipulative and power hungry because they have to fight past the men, or are murderous terrorists because they've been abused by evil men. Basically, every woman's life totally revolves around men. 

Agree, and as a man, I am driven nuts by that kind of logic. It's clear than many men are thoughtless and don't realize it, some men are misogynists and an even smaller number of men allow that hate to become abusive. We ALL can be better men (and yes, some should be in jail).

But aside from forcible abuse, none of that has to define what women do. Women can make their own decisions. And before someone says, "but men have the power," it is worth knowing that while some men do indeed have the power, many other men don't. For instance, I don't golf, never cared for it, and because I don't, I have been left out and blocked in my career by men with power who view golf as a prerequisite for "knowing who you truly are, to move up." And yet my decisions are my own, and don't revolve around those men. Does it hurt me career wise? Yes. If it fair? No. But it's my choice, and they can play golf, run the world and F off. I define my own happiness. I do benefit from being a man, no doubt. I also face similar challenges.

As for Plum, she doesn't seem to know what her happiness is. It started as losing weight, and she realized that wouldn't fix her life. But also, she seemed to think that a second date with a weirdo, a fixation on an ex-cop who has admitted he is using her, telling off someone who has been a friend because one time he said she should think about losing weight for her health and induction into a murderous cult were all good ideas that could help her fix her life. Clearly these are not good choices. She's supposed to be smart.  I hope she is learning something. I am not.

Edited August 2, 2018 by Ottis

[msrachelj]

omg. what happened to this show. after 10 minutes of the gang in black weirdness , i was just bored and lost. i ff'd most of it and deleted it from my dvr. could have been a good show but the underground confusing stuff going on, the characters you just don't care for..well. i'm out. i'd like to see the lead actress in something better than this mess.

[ABay]

On 7/31/2018 at 6:44 AM, JudyObscure said:

I had looked forward to this show so much, I thought it was going to explore weight issues, fat acceptance, sexism and ageism.  I thought it would expose the lies of the billion dollar diet industry, properly ridicule the superficial world of fashion, and makes us laugh.  Now I'm just glad it's over.

Sing it, sister. That's why I watched in spite of Marti Noxon. Unfortunately, she lived down to my expectations.

[Lunula]

It took me 3 days to get through this episode - I kept pausing and forgetting about it. Overall, I found it really boring and too unbelievable. Seriously, I felt like Plum left Calliope House and 2 seconds later she had made contact with Jennifer and was off to a secret location, inducted and living there. So what happened to her apartment? Her life? Then she's just...out and then back in?  And I guess I missed what was going on with Leta? She was normal, and then... going crazy? And Kitty wants to align with Jennifer because she figures it will help her keep control? Huh?

I'm certain I missed some stuff because I truly wasn't engaged. The first 8'ish episodes were interesting to me - as I've said before, I don't mind vigilante / revenge justice stories - but this shift in the last 2 episodes was too jarring and out of left field for me. Like they had too much to wrap up so they crammed it all in.