paigow July 22, 2018 Share July 22, 2018 Detective Bell considers leaving the NYPD after he is recommended for a once-in-a-lifetime career opportunity; Holmes and Watson investigate the disappearance of a young woman who led a double life as a financial dominatrix. Link to comment
Trey July 22, 2018 Share July 22, 2018 Financial dominatrix? So many things I never knew about until the internet came along. 9 Link to comment
shapeshifter July 22, 2018 Share July 22, 2018 4 hours ago, paigow said: Detective Bell considers leaving the NYPD after he is recommended for a once-in-a-lifetime career opportunity This sounds like yet another plot originally intended to elegantly wrap up the series. 14 Link to comment
paigow July 24, 2018 Author Share July 24, 2018 Bell was going to get a spin-off show...Justamentary 3 Link to comment
EAG46 July 24, 2018 Share July 24, 2018 (edited) This case went everywhere. InCels, FinDommes, Maker Faires, a transfer to the Federal Marshal's office, making untraceable weapons...yet it all seems to work. So much for me using a joke about Stefon from Saturday Night Live writing this episode. ETA: I kind of wish things wouldn't happen off screen. Edited July 24, 2018 by EAG46 9 Link to comment
woodstock July 24, 2018 Share July 24, 2018 (edited) The core four - Sherlock/Joan/Gregson/Bell - and their relationships are the heart and strength of the show. I want the gray dress Joan wore at the beginning of the episode. Edited July 24, 2018 by woodstock 8 Link to comment
Driad July 24, 2018 Share July 24, 2018 “I am the most incurably lazy devil that ever stood in shoe leather” is an authentic ACD canon quote. When did we last see Bell's girlfriend? 5 Link to comment
rhys July 24, 2018 Share July 24, 2018 I'd so watch "Marshall" starring Jon Michael Hill! I want Joan's black and white dress from the first scene. Swoon. 7 Link to comment
AnimeMania July 24, 2018 Share July 24, 2018 I saw a news story where they are going to allow people to post files that would let people print working guns on their 3D printers. I guess when this happens it will make the plot of this episode obsolete. I don't see why anybody would want you to 3D print your own guns, there is no money to be made there. Link to comment
Vermicious Knid July 24, 2018 Share July 24, 2018 They were so wrapping everything up. Now they have to explain why Bell isn't leaving. Maybe his school recommends he go for a PhD and the Marshalls Office is willing to wait? I knew that was a trebuchet! 4 Link to comment
biakbiak July 24, 2018 Share July 24, 2018 (edited) Bell just put in his application and his six month “notice” was of everything goes according to plan that is when he would be reporting for training pointing out the long interviewing process, there are so many different ways to easily walk that back. Edited July 24, 2018 by biakbiak 4 Link to comment
thuganomics85 July 24, 2018 Share July 24, 2018 I had no clue that financial domination was a thing, but I guess I really can't be too surprised over it. Also, while I have heard all about "incels" and the general idea about what it means, I never knew what it actually stood for, so I learned quite a lot in this one. Thanks, Elementary! I did feel kind of proud that I knew Sherlock was actually making a trebuchet and not just a catapult. Bell's potentially going to the Marshals does smack of an endgame set-up incase this was the final season, so since it isn't, I wonder how they're going to walk it back? I did like Gregson's talk with him. It was a little weird how the case pretty much got wrapped up off screen, but I did like that both of the kidnapped victims survived. Certainly allowed the show to save on their "fake blood and actors pretending to be corpses" budget! 6 Link to comment
johntfs July 24, 2018 Share July 24, 2018 5 hours ago, thuganomics85 said: It was a little weird how the case pretty much got wrapped up off screen, but I did like that both of the kidnapped victims survived. Certainly allowed the show to save on their "fake blood and actors pretending to be corpses" budget! The case got wrapped up once Sherlock revealed to the brother how they knew (and could prove) he was one of the kidnappers. The rest of it is the cops rescuing the victims and arresting the other kidnappers. Sherlock and Joan play no part in that so there's no real need to show it. I get a kick out of how much Sherlock gets a kick out of screwing over somebody (in this case the In-Cel guy) who truly deserves to get screwed over. I thought it was also weirdly funny the way the would-be mass shooter was truly concerned for the safety of "Queen Marisol" despite otherwise planning to murder several women at that gym. Just more of people are not of a piece. We also learned that Sherlock has accumulated a good deal of pull within the US federal law enforcement bureaucracy. 4 Link to comment
Trey July 24, 2018 Share July 24, 2018 One of my favourite lines, when Sherlock tells Joan that detective work is sometimes just plain work, "I'd like to help you, but, um..." and walks away. I really enjoyed this episode. Liked Bell getting so much recognition for his work. 8 Link to comment
Driad July 24, 2018 Share July 24, 2018 Answering my own question about Marcus Bell's girlfriend, in case anyone else wondered. The actor is Chasten Harmon and the character is Chantal Milner. We last saw her in 5.21 "Fly Into a Rage, Make a Bad Landing" and 5.20 "The Art of Sleights and Deception." 3 Link to comment
Xantar July 24, 2018 Share July 24, 2018 It was a little weird that the Incel guy ran a place called Black Pill 4 U when the actual term used among Incels is Red Pill. Were they afraid of a defamation lawsuit? Link to comment
iMonrey July 24, 2018 Share July 24, 2018 At last, a story I could follow! I have been having trouble with that lately. I don't know if it's the writing, or my attention span, or a combination of both, but this time I was actually able to keep up with the thread from start to finish despite the fact that it went everywhere. I have never heard of Maker Faires before. I can understand the purpose of an expo for tech stuff and the like, but do they really dress up in costumes? Why? If it weren't for that, I think I would really enjoy visiting one. Probably a lot of super cool gadgets. I think it will be easy enough to stall Marcus's change of careers for next season, unless they wrote and filmed the finale with him leaving the police department before they found out there would be another season. I did enjoy Sherlock screwing over that incel guy and telling him since he didn't seem to enjoy the company of women it wouldn't be a problem for the next 10-15 years. 3 Link to comment
AnimeMania July 24, 2018 Share July 24, 2018 58 minutes ago, iMonrey said: I have never heard of Maker Faires before. I can understand the purpose of an expo for tech stuff and the like, but do they really dress up in costumes? Why? If it weren't for that, I think I would really enjoy visiting one. Probably a lot of super cool gadgets. It probably intersects a lot with Steam Punk where you make retro high tech gadgets from metal, where aesthetics is way more important than function. 4 Link to comment
Vermicious Knid July 24, 2018 Share July 24, 2018 Before they explained it was a Makers faire I thought it was Steampunk going by the costumes. Thank you Smithsonian; What is a Makers fair, Exactly? Another way they could stall Marcus' tranfer- federal hiring freeze. Which was actually going on until a few months ago. 7 Link to comment
possibilities July 24, 2018 Share July 24, 2018 I don't want Marcus to fail, so I like the idea of a delay due to hiring freeze. 7 Link to comment
Novel8 July 24, 2018 Share July 24, 2018 This is the way the studio's get rid of some key players. They either kill them off or send them away, in this case as a promotion. I read somewhere that he is getting a new show Link to comment
iMonrey July 24, 2018 Share July 24, 2018 Question - why do some of the cops have their badges on sideways? I noticed it last week when they were interviewing one of the cops, and then this week I noticed Marcus had his badge on sideways. Does this indicate something? Link to comment
CaptainCranky July 24, 2018 Share July 24, 2018 19 hours ago, Driad said: “I am the most incurably lazy devil that ever stood in shoe leather” is an authentic ACD canon quote. When did we last see Bell's girlfriend? In the hospital. 2 Link to comment
Moxie Cat July 24, 2018 Share July 24, 2018 Completely agree with many post above, especially re: Joan's dress, wrapping up stories, and a complex yet follow-able plot. But a point that hasn't been mentioned: The traditional Sherlock/Watson couple, complete with deerstalker cap, in line at the convention! I only wish Sherlock had had a meta line like, "who are they trying to be?" 9 Link to comment
dargosmydaddy July 25, 2018 Share July 25, 2018 2 hours ago, Novel8 said: This is the way the studio's get rid of some key players. They either kill them off or send them away, in this case as a promotion. I read somewhere that he is getting a new show Really? This (recent) interview makes no mention of a new show, and the last question/ answer makes it sound like he's a part of season seven. I would be really upset if JMH leaves! 1 Link to comment
mtlchick July 25, 2018 Share July 25, 2018 (edited) The frustration of this season is I want half of Joan's clothing except it was filmed almost a year and by the time we see them, they're sold out! https://www.bergdorfgoodman.com/Jason-Wu-Sleeveless-Houndstooth-Jacquard-Dress-Black-Chalk/prod119220005_cat80001__/p.prod?ecid=BGAF__ShopStyle+CPC&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_source=BGAF__ShopStyle+CPC (thank you Worn On TV!) Interesting that they brought up the man who opened fire on female engineers in Montreal except I felt they sort of implied it was recent. That happened in 1989. Edited July 25, 2018 by mtlchick 1 Link to comment
beadgirl July 25, 2018 Share July 25, 2018 It's obvious the writers didn't think they were getting more than half a season, huh? But I'm thrilled for Bell, and I really hope they come up with some sort of delay so that Bell sticks around for season 7, before he goes off to be the amazing marshal we know he will be. And it looks like the next episode will be a bit baby-centric, which leads to my next wish for the finale -- that Watson gets an adorable baby, and Sherlock gives her an entire floor of the brownstone kept safe and baby-proofed for them, and he's the eccentric uncle downstairs/upstairs. I really want Watson to have a life beyond Sherlock. I know babies aren't popular on shows and can be a pain to work with, but I wouldn't need to see it -- just a reference here and there to the nanny watching it, or a developmental milestone, etc. (Although I kind of like the idea of Watson and Sherlock on the street interviewing witnesses, with the baby in a carrier on Joan.) What I suspect they'll do is have the adoption process drag out through season 7, which is certainly realistic -- it can take years, sometimes -- but I hope she gets one in the end. Don't get me wrong -- I'm thrilled that the show is continuing. But the wrapping-up plotlines in the last few episodes have me thinking about the end. Oh, yeah, I liked the mystery, although I was disappointed to have predicted the brother's involvement. The structure of the cases tends to be the same, and I'd like to see that upended every once in a while. 4 Link to comment
catrice2 July 25, 2018 Share July 25, 2018 Clearly I've missed some episodes because I remember an entirely different girlfriend. Definitely seems like she was more into him than was her so I'm not putting too much emphasis on that. I would hate for him to leave too especially since we don't get Alfredo anymore. I have no interest in a baby story line and yes I also predicted from as soon as he was on the screen that the brother was involved. Is it just me or is Gregson not on as much anymore Link to comment
johntfs July 25, 2018 Share July 25, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, Xantar said: It was a little weird that the Incel guy ran a place called Black Pill 4 U when the actual term used among Incels is Red Pill. Were they afraid of a defamation lawsuit? From The Wikipedia page on Incel Quote Black pill The black pill is a set of beliefs that are commonly held amongst members of incel communities, such as genetic determinism, fatalism and defeatism for unattractive people.[52] Someone who believes in the black pill is a black piller.[31] The concept of the black pill distinguishes incels from the men's rights movement and their popular reference to the red pill, an allusion to the dilemma in the movie The Matrix where the protagonist must choose to remain in a world of illusion (taking the blue pill) or to see the world as it really is (taking the red pill).[53] In the context of men's rights activism, "taking the red pill" means seeing a world where women hold power over men.[54] The black pill, on the other hand, refers to hopelessness.[34] It also holds that one's personality isn't very important.[55] Sam Louie, in an interview with WBUR-FM, defined "taking the black pill" as meaning "I will now espouse violence, hatred and misogyny."[56] So, Elementary pretty much got it right. Edited July 25, 2018 by johntfs 4 Link to comment
JTM July 25, 2018 Share July 25, 2018 13 hours ago, mtlchick said: Interesting that they brought up the man who opened fire on female engineers in Montreal except I felt they sort of implied it was recent. That happened in 1989. I also found it weird that it was sort of implied it was connected to the incel thing, because it was very specifically targeting women for their professional success in male-dominated fields. 2 Link to comment
iMonrey July 25, 2018 Share July 25, 2018 Quote Oh, yeah, I liked the mystery, although I was disappointed to have predicted the brother's involvement. I didn't, because I was under the impression Sherlock was talking to the victim's sister and her husband, not the victim's brother and sister. In fact I thought that was poorly written because I wasn't entirely sure who either of them were until they walked out of the interrogation room and Sherlock said "her sister." 5 Link to comment
wellread July 25, 2018 Share July 25, 2018 Bell's one-liner should be noted: When hearing Strider's name, Bell comments that it is the second stupidest first name that he has ever heard! Great! 18 Link to comment
juliet73 July 25, 2018 Share July 25, 2018 20 minutes ago, wellread said: Bell's one-liner should be noted: When hearing Strider's name, Bell comments that it is the second stupidest first name that he has ever heard! Great! That was great! And Sherlock's reaction was hilarious! I really hope there is a placementdelay from the Marshall's side because I want Bell back next season. I also hope that it will take years for Watson to finally adopt a child. I love the Sherlock/Joan dynamic - no need to add a 3rd wheel. 2 Link to comment
aemom July 26, 2018 Share July 26, 2018 23 hours ago, mtlchick said: Interesting that they brought up the man who opened fire on female engineers in Montreal except I felt they sort of implied it was recent. That happened in 1989. I remember that day like it was yesterday. I was attending a different university than where it happened and my friend was a friend of one of the victims. There were definitely no incel websites back in those days. 4 Link to comment
theatremouse July 26, 2018 Share July 26, 2018 I don't remember the exact exchange, but for some reason I didn't think they were referring to the real event in 1989. I thought they were referring to a fictional more recent event in-show universe that was based on the real event in 1989. 1 Link to comment
SomeTameGazelle July 26, 2018 Share July 26, 2018 (edited) 9 hours ago, theatremouse said: I don't remember the exact exchange, but for some reason I didn't think they were referring to the real event in 1989. I thought they were referring to a fictional more recent event in-show universe that was based on the real event in 1989. If they wanted to indicate it was a different [fictional] event, they could have and should have added details that marked it as different. It didn't have to be Montreal and engineers. Also weren't the other events they mentioned also specific real incidents? Edited July 26, 2018 by SomeTameGazelle 2 Link to comment
Trey July 26, 2018 Share July 26, 2018 12 hours ago, AEMom said: There were definitely no incel websites back in those days. No, but if there were, he would definitely have belonged to one. 1 Link to comment
aemom July 26, 2018 Share July 26, 2018 39 minutes ago, Trey said: No, but if there were, he would definitely have belonged to one. You could be right, but he seemed to be angry towards women in general, not about the fact that he couldn't get a date. At any rate, the show is usually much better about getting their facts straight. This was such a huge deal when it happened - and still has a trickle down effect to this day - that for them to just manipulate the incident into a throwaway statement that wasn't even correct felt cheap to me. Link to comment
Trey July 26, 2018 Share July 26, 2018 Perhaps I should have said "He might have belonged to an incel website." I think an incel website would attract any misogynist, whatever his reasons for being one. 2 Link to comment
basil July 26, 2018 Share July 26, 2018 Quote I knew that was a trebuchet! Northern Exposure featured a trebuchet in at least two episodes. Beauriful slo-mo recording of it in action. Quote The traditional Sherlock/Watson couple, complete with deerstalker cap, in line at the convention! I only wish Sherlock had had a meta line like, "who are they trying to be?" Yes, and we see them right after Watson had asked if they should attend in costume. No need for a line - that shot was plenty meta all by itself. It's a classic old gag. You get Watson's line about costumes and the next shot you see it "Holmes and Watson" in costume, filmed from behind - then pass them to see it isn't our Holmes and Watson, who immediately walk into the frame. Also, in the Elementary world, Holmes and Watson don't dress that way (though I think we did see a deerstalker once), and in canon, Watson is, of course, a man. That shot was almost breaking the fourth wall. Any comment would have been gilding the lily. 11 Link to comment
mtlchick July 26, 2018 Share July 26, 2018 19 hours ago, AEMom said: I remember that day like it was yesterday. I was attending a different university than where it happened and my friend was a friend of one of the victims. 10 hours ago, SomeTameGazelle said: I thought they were referring to a fictional more recent event in-show universe that was based on the real event in 1989. I live in Montreal and it happened the day after 12th birthday so it's seared into my memory. I wouldn't have minded it as much if it was said as to when it happened. I felt they tried to shoehorn it into to fit this story line, especially when it occurred at a time where there was no Internet. Link to comment
Aliconehead July 26, 2018 Share July 26, 2018 Both incidents that were mention are real incidents. The UC Santa Bárbara was the other one Link to comment
Driad July 26, 2018 Share July 26, 2018 1 hour ago, mtlchick said: especially when it occurred at a time where there was no Internet. 1989? I have been on line since 1986. It was email and Usenet then. 1 Link to comment
basil July 26, 2018 Share July 26, 2018 Quote I live in Montreal and it happened the day after 12th birthday so it's seared into my memory. I wouldn't have minded it as much if it was said as to when it happened. I felt they tried to shoehorn it into to fit this story line, especially when it occurred at a time where there was no Internet. Why would you mind it at all? It was true and germane to the episode. It wasn't shoe-horned in - the year it happened in is irrelevant. 1 Link to comment
mtlchick July 27, 2018 Share July 27, 2018 1 hour ago, basil said: Why would you mind it at all? It was true and germane to the episode. It wasn't shoe-horned in - the year it happened in is irrelevant. As I said earlier, for me I felt they were implying it was a fairly recent event. Not to veer that off topic, but how many viewers would readily remember a mass shooting in Canada from 30 years ago unless they decided to google Montreal and female engineer students? Back to topic: I need more Clyde. Why does the show deny me airtime of the tortoise? Link to comment
SomeTameGazelle July 27, 2018 Share July 27, 2018 3 hours ago, mtlchick said: 3 hours ago, mtlchick said: 12 hours ago, SomeTameGazelle said: I thought they were referring to a fictional more recent event in-show universe that was based on the real event in 1989. Forgive me for mentioning it, but the quote is attributed incorrectly. I was quoting @theatremouse. 1 hour ago, basil said: Why would you mind it at all? It was true and germane to the episode. It wasn't shoe-horned in - the year it happened in is irrelevant. In context, Sherlock was accusing the site admin of the black pill message board of being disingenuous when he claimed that specific appallingly misogynistic comments on the site were jokes. There is no way that the 30 year old Montreal massacre was connected to this guy's site. It struck me as off as well. Link to comment
johntfs July 27, 2018 Share July 27, 2018 23 minutes ago, SomeTameGazelle said: In context, Sherlock was accusing the site admin of the black pill message board of being disingenuous when he claimed that specific appallingly misogynistic comments on the site were jokes. There is no way that the 30 year old Montreal massacre was connected to this guy's site. It struck me as off as well. I saw it more as the idea that the hatred and misogyny were real instead being "jokes" and had had real world fatal consequences. The guy was playing "den mother to a group of would-be rapists and mass shooters." 3 Link to comment
basil July 27, 2018 Share July 27, 2018 (edited) Quote Why would you mind it at all? It was true and germane to the episode. It wasn't shoe-horned in - the year it happened in is irrelevant. Quote In context, Sherlock was accusing the site admin of the black pill message board of being disingenuous when he claimed that specific appallingly misogynistic comments on the site were jokes. There is no way that the 30 year old Montreal massacre was connected to this guy's site. It struck me as off as well Yes, I understood that the timing of the event wasn't accurate, but writers take literary license all the time. I suppose they could have made up an event, or used a more recent ones like Elliot Rodger's, or Alek Minassian's, but the Montreal massacre victims were all women, murdered because they were women, so I can see why they used that one, even though the timeline was incorrect. I remember it as well, but sadly, outside of Montreal, I doubt all that many people do. I saw the inclusion of the massacre in this episode as a kind of tribute to them. An acknowledgement that they are not forgotten. Quote I saw it more as the idea that the hatred and misogyny were real instead being "jokes" and had had real world fatal consequences. The guy was playing "den mother to a group of would-be rapists and mass shooters." Exactly. They used a real event, just changed its place in time for purposes of clarity. Thngs like this happen in tvland quite often. Of course you have every right to "mind" this, or feel that it's "off", I just trying to understand why it would bother anyone, aside from the difference in the time the event happened. Eta: I just rewatched the scene in question. The Black Pill guy claims that posters on his site are joking. In response, Sherlock says "then how to you explain that one of your members went on a rampage at his college who went on a rampage, killing 12 people, mostly women, or the person who opened fire on a group of female engineers in Montreal?". I read that as Sherlock was refering to it in historical context, that it was something that has happened in the past and was not fodder for "jokes". Edited July 27, 2018 by basil 3 Link to comment
possibilities July 27, 2018 Share July 27, 2018 If they had used a fictional event, I think it wouldn't have had the same impact. It could have been passed off more easily as hysterical exaggeration. 2 Link to comment
johntfs July 27, 2018 Share July 27, 2018 For my part, I never knew/remembered anything about the Montreal tragedy, so this episode was the first I'd heard of it (or was really conscious of it). Link to comment
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