S01.E06: Which Side Are You On

[scrb]

Quote

With the vote of no confidence against Logan imminent, Roman tries to sway a neutral board member, while Kendall frantically shores up his "yea" votes. Meanwhile, Logan arrives in Washington to meet with the president, but worries he's been snubbed following a last-minute cancellation; after successfully thwarting a potential scandal, Tom introduces Greg to fine dining; and Shiv explores her options in D.C

[scrb]

Tom's going to teach Greg about how to be rich.  So he must have been an executive at Waystar for at least a few years before he proposed to Shiv?  Boyfriends become high-level executives?  Which is strange, because Shiv blows off wedding talk with Tom (who's the bridezilla with the expensive tastes) to go to Washington and flirt with an ex bf, Nate -- who as far as we know never got an executive job at Waystar.

You know, shit happens and she travels all the time!

Greg would be content with California Pizza Kitchen Cajun chicken linguine but Tom takes him to some snooty popup for some Ortolan and monkfish.  Even if Ewan hadn't already stuffed Greg with some Chinese noodle soup, he was going to hurl at biting into deep-fired songbird.

I liked this rendition of rich people indulging in grotesque extravagance -- having the Ortolan not despite it being prohibited due to concerns about animal cruelty but because of that prohibition -- than when Billions did it.

I don't remember Roman's sit-down with Lawrence but tried to convince him on the basis of some bro code?  Not surprising how those two ended up voting.

And then the detour to Long Island and concerns about being shot down by an F-16 were something.  Guess Kendall should have aborted because it's like the gods of no-confidence votes seem to be aligning against him.  He even had doubts after he bonded a little with Logan over a meal of fast-food hamburgers -- Marcia was out so Logan was spoiling himself.

So the menu for this episode included burgers, cheap Chinese noodles, Ortolan, $2000 vodka shots with 24K gold leaf, the shrimp platter that Kendall's friend tasted.  Not sure what Roman, Lawrence and bf ate.  Neither Greg nor anyone else got to partake of CPK pasta though.

The main event of the episode was Kendall frantically trying to reach the boardroom while Logan dared browbeat board members into voting against Kendall, who'd planned and conspired for days to line up a vote that Logan blew up like a boss in a matter of minutes.

Thing is, he has no interest in teaching any of his kids how to swing the big dick, as he put it.

Meanwhile, Kendall is wandering around the streets of Manhattan in a daze, perhaps not unlike songbirds before they're fried alive for tasting menus of rich assholes.

[nb360]

Does anyone get the vibe that Tom is going to kiss or be intimate with Greg? 

[nilyank]

8 hours ago, scrb said:

The main event of the episode was Kendall frantically trying to reach the boardroom while Logan dared browbeat board members into voting against Kendall, who'd planned and conspired for days to line up a vote that Logan blew up like a boss in a matter of minutes.

 

Kendall would have gotten the votes if it wasn't for Roman. Even if Lawrence was abstaining, Roman only had to vote with his brother to get the no confidence vote to pass. That was Kendall's biggest mistake of the day, because him going to Long Island, he actually got her vote even if it delayed his returned back to Long Island.

[minamurray78]

What exactly is so great about Tom anyway? I was waiting for Shiv to answer.

And enough with the ortolan. The only time it didn't look cheesy was on Hannibal.

[sadie]

I think this ep is where they finally found their stride. It was engaging and fast paced and the vote literally had me holding my breath.

Shiv continues to be just awful. I continue to have no idea of Toms appeal, even if Shiv is awful, her being with him makes zero sense. They need to show us the why here because it’s frustrating. That said it seems Tom is with Shiv strictly because he likes being rich. What a douchebag. 

Roman remains a weak weasel. 

Logan owned that room, what a sight to see him in action and Kendall wandering the streets afterwards to the tune of that old timey civil war tune was awesome! 

[Panda Bear]

8 hours ago, nb360 said:

Does anyone get the vibe that Tom is going to kiss or be intimate with Greg? 

Yeah, I kind of thought Shiv was going to walk in on them at the end of the episode. 

[RedDelicious]

I also see what you guys see, but I'm wondering if the Tom/Greg thing is because Greg might be the only 'outside' ally (and I use that term very loosely, because he doesn't seem very aligned at all) Tom may ever have in that family.

I think Roman might be a favorite of Logan, thinking back to what I perceived as the affection with which Logan spoke to Roman in the helicopter in the first episode.  I got the impression that even though Roman is severely ADD (and possibly gay) Logan values his input more so than the other siblings.

Shiv is the WORST.

[scrb]

The episode is named after this song and that is what was sung as the episode ended:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Which_Side_Are_You_On%3F

 

It was about the famous Harlan County War, where the union and the mine owners in Kentucky clashed in 1931.

OK that was a bitter struggle but not sure how that compares to the board room battle, which was over in like 10 minutes.

[lazylou]

49 minutes ago, scrb said:

The episode is named after this song and that is what was sung as the episode ended:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Which_Side_Are_You_On%3F

 

It was about the famous Harlan County War, where the union and the mine owners in Kentucky clashed in 1931.

OK that was a bitter struggle but not sure how that compares to the board room battle, which was over in like 10 minutes.

Thanks for identifying the song at the end of the show, "Which side are you on?"  I  associate it with the folk music of the sixties, much of which was old union stuff and which I thought  was perfect for the ending of the show.  

Roman is really terrible.  As is Shiv.  and Tom.  However, I still have hopes for Greg, though he should have taken his grandfather's advice and paddled his own canoe.  He ought not to have told Tom that his grandfather was in town, but after that really terrible meal maybe he will see what a creep Tom is.  But he already knew that.  Greg does clearly have some information that could blow things up.  

[minamurray78]

I got nostalgic while hearing that song about the Harlan war.

Raylan Givens wouldn´t have put up with any of theses assholes' crap.

[sadie]

46 minutes ago, minamurray78 said:

I got nostalgic while hearing that song about the Harlan war.

Raylan Givens wouldn´t have put up with any of theses assholes' crap.

Lol I totally wanted to make a Justified reference but am never sure if anyone will know what I’m talking about!!

[TimWil]

Fun fact-the White House hallway in the episode is the same hallway set used for Madam Secretary. The two shows shoot in the same soundstage complex. And the hospital suite which Logan stayed in was used on Madam Secretary when the POTUS was hospitalized.

Edited July 10, 2018 by TimWil

[Moxie Cat]

I'm not so sure that Kendall's presence would have swayed Roman's vote. He's a weakling. But if Ken hadn't visited Ilona (and been absent as a result), she wouldn't have voted against Logan (it just would have been another abstention) so what he did actually did matter. If he had been there, without Illona's vote, they would have lost anyway, or tied if Roman had gone with them.

I felt bad for Asha, who was devastated that she went out on a limb.

Haha - Gerri! She is the true master in all this.

I don't think Logan was tipped off to the vote, but I think Marcia might have been. I still can't figure out how she knew about Shiv's background check. She must have more fingers in the pot than we realize.

[izabella]

What is Shiv's full name?  I keep thinking of her as a knife.

[clb1016]

3 hours ago, izabella said:

What is Shiv's full name?  I keep thinking of her as a knife.

Siobhan (pronounced "shi-VON").

Edited July 11, 2018 by clb1016

[Misstify]

I'm a little confused about the board stuff.  Can a CEO fire the board members?  I mean, apparently he did.  I usually hear about boards firing a CEO.  I guess the reverse scenario can happen if their contracts allow it?

[Broderbits]

10 hours ago, Misstify said:

I'm a little confused about the board stuff.  Can a CEO fire the board members?

Whether he can legally or not, none of those gutless assholes are going to be standing up to Logan Roy. Splice the lot of them together and you still wouldn't have a complete backbone.

[scrb]

Pretty much a family controlled Corp., it seems.

Logan may be chairman of the board as well as CEO.

But the family has a lot of power.  For instance, Tom was already an executive even before he and Shiv got formally engaged and she has no official role in the running of any part of Waystar.

[Emiloo212]

Kieran Culkin is doing such a fantastic job of bringing his character of Roman and this show to life. When he is on screen, I do not want to watch anyone else. He is so charismatic. 

[tennisgurl]

Wow, Logan crushed that rebellion in about five seconds flat. I gotta say, I think this was the best episode so far, probably because stuff really went down, and it wasn't just the family snapping at each other. I was really engaged, and it felt like there were real stakes. 

Kendall's big mistake was being out of town the day of the vote. Or trusting Roman, who is basically a slimy weasel person who will go whichever way the wind is shifting. If he was there, maybe he could have got his brother to stick with the plan. That being said, I love Kieran Culkin so much. Roman is such a piece of crap, but I still love watching him and his weird, twitchy ways.

Love the old Harlan County war song at the end, it fit what went down perfectly, and added a suitably epic feel to the ending. Plus, it reminded me of watching Justified, and that always puts me in a good mood. 

[lazylou]

Can anyone explain to me who Ilona is? 

[TimWil]

36 minutes ago, lazylou said:

Can anyone explain to me who Ilona is? 

She’s a never-before-seen board member of Waystar Royco. 

 

I thought Logan was more or less racist so surprised he had Ilona as well as an African-American on his board.

[Lemons]

On 7/9/2018 at 2:07 PM, sadie said:

I think this ep is where they finally found their stride. It was engaging and fast paced and the vote literally had me holding my breath.

Shiv continues to be just awful. I continue to have no idea of Toms appeal, even if Shiv is awful, her being with him makes zero sense. They need to show us the why here because it’s frustrating. That said it seems Tom is with Shiv strictly because he likes being rich. What a douchebag. 

Roman remains a weak weasel. 

Logan owned that room, what a sight to see him in action and Kendall wandering the streets afterwards to the tune of that old timey civil war tune was awesome! 

I’m glad I stuck with this show because I hated the first episode, now I’m loving it.  

I don’t get Tom’s appeal either.  They have no chemistry, unlike Shiv and the guy in DC.  Tom’s weaseliness shouts out at a person every time he speaks.  He’s gross in every way.  

[scrb]

Only thing I get is that she can control him.

Basically made him sign the prenup on her terms and she is delaying the marriage.  IIRC when he proposed, he was ready to set a date and she said she'd accept his proposal but they wouldn't marry for awhile.

Then the last episode, he is talking about specific wedding plans and she blows it off, other than to add that she might have to do it at some boring place in NY that he wouldn't like.

But maybe she doesn't see being engaged or married as any kind of obstacle to whatever she wants to do because she got the "shit happens" and "I travel a lot" clauses put into the prenup.  She thinks she's going to have her cake and eat it too.

[Lemons]

On 7/11/2018 at 9:33 PM, Emiloo212 said:

Kieran Culkin is doing such a fantastic job of bringing his character of Roman and this show to life. When he is on screen, I do not want to watch anyone else. He is so charismatic. 

I think the character crosses the line too often into being tiresome.  I like the Kendall character, I think that guy is doing a good job.  

6 hours ago, TimWil said:

She’s a never-before-seen board member of Waystar Royco. 

 

I thought Logan was more or less racist so surprised he had Ilona as well as an African-American on his board.

I’d say he is more of an old school stereotyper than racist.  

[showme]

On 7/11/2018 at 9:29 AM, Misstify said:

I'm a little confused about the board stuff.  Can a CEO fire the board members?  I mean, apparently he did.  I usually hear about boards firing a CEO.  I guess the reverse scenario can happen if their contracts allow it?

He is the Chairman of the board as well. I guess you missed that. So yeah, he definitely can fire board members.

[showme]

So what happens to a rich white man when he got fired from his father's empire? Can he get a job somewhere else?

[showme]

What I don't understand is Stewy's abstention.

On a personal level, he is buddies with Kendall, on a business level, he is in cohorts with Logan Roy's nemesis in taking a huge stake in the company, potentially for a hostile take over.

So why wouldn't he vote in favor of the no confidence motion in order to get rid of the tougher Logan and let Ken, whom he can easily manipulate, run the company? 

[scrb]

1 hour ago, showme said:

So what happens to a rich white man when he got fired from his father's empire? Can he get a job somewhere else?

He probably has no money needs to find another job.

It’s mostly about ego at this level.

I think they hinted that Kendall squandered some of his youth and succeeding Logan would be kind of redemption for him.  He tries to swing a big dick like his father but the trash talking of adversaries backfires and he’s lacking confidence at times.  At that dinner, he doesn’t take advantage of his date, who had been told to show him a good time.  So he’s good from the #MeToo point of view but maybe falling short for alpha males expected to be CEOs.

 

Roman also doesn’t seem to be the driven corporate type either.  He boasts about swimming in pussy but wants to take on a demanding job?  It’s always hard to divine the motivations of very rich people, especially those who grew up rich.  Roman doesn’t even bother to put up a front of being serious about anything.  I guess the title means he gets to boss people around.  Sounds like he wanted his way with the movie and was overruled.

[showme]

51 minutes ago, scrb said:

he’s lacking confidence at times

That is obvious from the very first scene of episode 1, he did show a lack of confidence, and keep asking subordinates for validation. He can't even control Lawrence, who reports to him.

About the "not sexually exploiting female anchor" angle, I think it only shows that he is a decent man and it is a good quality. Real world examples have shown it does not end well for bosses who do. Alpha males don't have to be womanizers. Being an "alpha male" is not a prerequisite for being a good CEO either. 

[scrb]

5 minutes ago, showme said:

That is obvious from the very first scene of episode 1, he did show a lack of confidence, and keep asking subordinates for validation. He can't even control Lawrence, who reports to him.

About the "not sexually exploiting female anchor" angle, I think it only shows that he is a decent man and it is a good quality. Real world examples have shown it does not end well for bosses who do. Alpha males don't have to be womanizers. Being an "alpha male" is not a prerequisite for being a good CEO either. 

That may be but Logan has defined it that way and Kendall is trying to live up to his father’s legacy.

However, it can’t be about impressing pops any more if he was trying to oust dad.

Or maybe it is.  Maybe Logan would have thought more highly of his son if he managed to depose him.

Edited July 15, 2018 by scrb

[RabbitEars]

My husband and I can't help but get sucked into this show every time it's on. I think every actor on this show relishes their role. (Kieran Culkin especially.) These characters are cruel, dumb, and so fun to play.

The casting of Shiv, Tom and Nate couldn't be better. Tom + Shiv already look a decade into a barely tolerable marriage, and that's before the wedding. Nate + Shiv are electric together. (I love his '90s hair.)

One thing I feel is missing: a golden child. I think if one of the kids were clearly the favored one, there would be real tragedy in Kendall's desperation to be the next alpha. But Logan seems uninterested in all of them.

I still think something is up with Greg. I know everything he does screams "I don't belong here," and if writers are just playing up his youth and naivete for laughs, okay. He is a comic gift. But if he is playing dumb while running some con, I wouldn't be surprised.

[Rickster]

On 7/15/2018 at 11:28 AM, showme said:

He is the Chairman of the board as well. I guess you missed that. So yeah, he definitely can fire board members.

A little late to this conversation, but a Chairman can’t fire board members unless the company has some very odd governance provisions. Maybe if he owns more than 50% of the stock, he could effectively act as if they are fired.

[abronfeld1]

On 8/12/2019 at 7:58 AM, Rickster said:

A little late to this conversation, but a Chairman can’t fire board members unless the company has some very odd governance provisions. Maybe if he owns more than 50% of the stock, he could effectively act as if they are fired.

We know that Waystar is a publicly held stock. Voting against the Chairman can not get you "fired". All the Board members would have terms of service, usually staggered, and would be subject to a vote of the Shareholders at the end of their terms. If Logan owned more that 50% of the voting stock he could vote them out at that time. The "firings" make good TV, but not even close to reality.

[TaraS1]

I just started watching this show a few days ago and my god, these people are horrible.  In the beginning, I thought Roman would end up being the n'er do well youngest son who actually has a heart of gold, but nope, he's a slimeball too.  I think Kendall might actually be the 'best' of the bunch.

And I almost gagged during the songbird scene.  I hope Greg ends up killing Tom someday lol

[Reality Rocker]

On 7/9/2018 at 10:35 AM, nb360 said:

Does anyone get the vibe that Tom is going to kiss or be intimate with Greg? 

Ive seen other people who think this!  All I see is Tom bullying Greg and watching them together makes me cringe!

[TV Diva Queen]

I'm just starting this series and am unsure if I'm enjoying it or not, but will stick with it.  When Ken went out to LI and his helicopter was unable to fly because the air space was on lock down....did Logan set that up with the President?  I kind of think he did.  anyone else? 

[scrb]

2 hours ago, TV Diva Queen said:

I'm just starting this series and am unsure if I'm enjoying it or not, but will stick with it.  When Ken went out to LI and his helicopter was unable to fly because the air space was on lock down....did Logan set that up with the President?  I kind of think he did.  anyone else? 

No don't think so, just bad luck.

[TV Diva Queen]

1 minute ago, scrb said:

No don't think so, just bad luck.

I'm not entirely convinced.  I'll have to watch that part again w CC on.  Something shady was going down there.....

[DrSparkles]

On 10/16/2019 at 10:00 AM, TV Diva Queen said:

I'm just starting this series and am unsure if I'm enjoying it or not, but will stick with it.  When Ken went out to LI and his helicopter was unable to fly because the air space was on lock down....did Logan set that up with the President?  I kind of think he did.  anyone else? 

Yay! I just started last night!

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 7/11/2018 at 9:33 PM, Emiloo212 said:

Kieran Culkin is doing such a fantastic job of bringing his character of Roman and this show to life. When he is on screen, I do not want to watch anyone else. He is so charismatic. 

Any fan of his should watch "Igby Goes Down".  I watched it so many times in the 2000s.  Now when I watch it, I'm a bit shocked at how harsh it is.  But damn, he's so talented.

[TheGourmez]

On 10/16/2019 at 9:36 AM, TV Diva Queen said:

I'm not entirely convinced.  I'll have to watch that part again w CC on.  Something shady was going down there.....

I thought the final scene was meant to convey that Logan had managed to call in the terrorist threat, knowing Kendall's plan. But he did seem genuinely surprised by the no confidence vote, so I'm not sure.

[Blakeston]

On 3/8/2020 at 11:45 PM, TheGourmez said:

I thought the final scene was meant to convey that Logan had managed to call in the terrorist threat, knowing Kendall's plan. But he did seem genuinely surprised by the no confidence vote, so I'm not sure.

Yeah, Logan didn't piece together the no confidence vote until he saw Ewan there.

Logan also seemed genuinely outraged that the president snubbed him because of a sudden national security-related incident, and he wanted to know if the incident was real. Kendall being unable to fly seemed like confirmation that it was real.

[SlovakPrincess]

I'm on team "Logan only realized what was happening when Ewan walked in and Frank was being weird."  But he's a nasty old schemer and can bully his way out of anything on the spot.  

I think the terror threat was real, not a manipulation by Logan ... even these people have to bend to actual real world circumstances sometimes.  Kendall seemed shocked when the helicopter pilot firmly told him no, there was no way to skirt the law.

Sort of impressed Kendall was able to give his speech while panting and walking.  Wasn't Stewy supposed to be a yes?   Too bad for Kendall, but he gave it his best shot, and maybe should've factored in Roman, Stewy and Lawrence being less than reliable.  Obviously, he learns nothing because the show goes on for more seasons, but would've been nice if he used this as a reason to start a new life.   

So Frank got fired from the same job twice in the span of a month?  Oh Frank.  And now you don't have your exit package.  

Shiv and Nate are perfect for each other (perfectly awful, that is), but I suspect they both need to be the boss in their relationships.  Tom is so awful that he kinda deserves this misery.  

Connor is such a weasel, but Alan Ruck cracks me up in this role.

Edited December 17, 2022 by SlovakPrincess

[Guest]

I hate this episode. For all the talk of Logan’s business acumen, he didn’t win this vote because he did better than Kendall or Kendall screwed up. He refused to leave the room and bullied people, including continuing his intimidation of one of his abused children in Roman. He refused to follow procedures or rules on how the meeting should operate and as a result of none of the ones in the room being strong enough leaders to get him out of the room, he was allowed to get away with it.

[truthaboutluv]

On 7/9/2018 at 2:07 PM, sadie said:

I think this ep is where they finally found their stride. It was engaging and fast paced and the vote literally had me holding my breath.

I literally only started watching this series two weeks ago because my friend could not stop gushing about the super amazing recent episode in Season 4 (so obviously I'm not there yet) and so I decided to finally give the series a shot. I have to agree with the quoted that this is the episode that finally truly got my attention. The previous episodes were fine but I would find that I'd watch it and then have no desire to quickly watch the next episode. This one made me binge the next two episodes after it almost immediately. 

 

On 4/18/2023 at 9:58 PM, deaja said:

I hate this episode. For all the talk of Logan’s business acumen, he didn’t win this vote because he did better than Kendall or Kendall screwed up. He refused to leave the room and bullied people, including continuing his intimidation of one of his abused children in Roman. He refused to follow procedures or rules on how the meeting should operate and as a result of none of the ones in the room being strong enough leaders to get him out of the room, he was allowed to get away with it.

I definitely agree about Logan coming off less as some master business expert who out-maneovred his son versus a a loud and aggressive bully that intimidated most of the board into sticking with him. It's why I definitely appreciated the black woman who stood up to him, however brief it was. 

That said, I read all the comments and didn't see anyone mention where Kendall really screwed up. It wasn't going to Long Island because yes, he got IIona to give him her vote once he spoke to her. It's that there would have been no reason for him to go had he not called her daughter or neice (whoever the young woman was).

If we recall, when he suggested calling her, Frank told him it wasn't a good idea, that it might tip her off that something was up. But he did it anyway and it seemed like the daughter or whoever, as Frank noted, knew something was up and spoke to IIona who then was adamant that she would be calling into the meeting. Because she took Kendall's random, out of nowhere call as an obvious sign that he DIDN'T want her on the call. And that's what caused him to have to fly down to Long Island to smooth that mess over. 

I will say that I didn't blame the two guys who abstained their votes. Both of these guys have made it clear they have no loyalty to any of these people and in the one guy case, he's been clear he pretty much hates that whole damn family. From their perspective, I could see where they just figured it was better to not jump in the fray as the whole thing was shaping up to be a shit show. On the one hand is the aging bully who probably needs to step down but the option is the son who's kind of an insecure mess who can't even be present for his own coup attempt. 

[Anela]

I’m on episode six of this first season, and have no idea why it’s so popular. I keep falling asleep. 

[pennben]

If you don’t like, sincerely don’t watch. Lots of folks love it, I’m sure many like you don’t. Either way, all good!

[Anela]

1 hour ago, pennben said:

If you don’t like, sincerely don’t watch. Lots of folks love it, I’m sure many like you don’t. Either way, all good!

I have friends who assured me that it’s worth it, even though they’re all awful. It reminds me of The Office, which I also couldn’t get into.