S01.E03: Y Not

[formerlyfreedom]

Plum goes through withdrawal as she works on her new writing assignment; Jennifer rampages, leaving the country a fearful, bloody mess.

[formerlyfreedom]

While this episode will not air until June 11, 2018, it will be available on the AMC app for the week prior. Entering the topic will spoil you for the episode. You have been warned! ;)

[Ms Lark]

It's also up on Comcast On Demand until the 11th. And it's very strange!

[DiabLOL]

My thoughts so far. I'll definitely keep watching but there's a few things that are already kind of off for me.

First of all my consistent reaction to the way Plum is treated is all over the place. I think I'd really find it more believable that total strangers go out of their way to be so over the top shitty to her because of her size if she were way larger and not so well groomed and dressed. While I appreciate the things she has to say about how painful it can be to be heavy it's just weird to watch a show where this stuff is cartoon level hostile while the rest can be realistic.

I buy it more when she's being insulted in her work place for example.

The tiger scene really bothered me. I guess the bestiality vibes were too much for me if the show is trying to humanize a fat woman.

[BooBear]

On 6/5/2018 at 4:22 PM, DiabLOL said:

First of all my consistent reaction to the way Plum is treated is all over the place. I think I'd really find it more believable that total strangers go out of their way to be so over the top shitty to her because of her size if she were way larger and not so well groomed and dressed. While I appreciate the things she has to say about how painful it can be to be heavy it's just weird to watch a show where this stuff is cartoon level hostile while the rest can be realistic.

I saw this very differently. I am fat just slightly over the obese line and I am freaking shocked on a daily basis at how horrible people are to me (or to other larger people I know).  I love that this show (or the book) doesn't shy away from that.  I think every large woman knows it is downright vicious.  It is absolutely the last socially acceptable prejudice / no hate.  

On 6/5/2018 at 4:22 PM, DiabLOL said:

guess the bestiality vibes were too much for me if the show is trying to humanize a fat woman.

I didn't see any bestiality vibes. It was more like Tony the tiger -- she even made a cereal joke. That was the cartoon area of this episode.  I didn't like it only because it was boring. I find "hallucination" episodes to be filler to slow the plot down and have things happen but not happen.

 

I also enjoyed that 

Spoiler

the detective guy is married and just cozying up for the investigation

Love that the fat woman's instinct was validated here. 

[atlantaloves]

The second episode was just sitting there on my on demand, and boy is this show crazy! I love love love it.  I'm three hours in and I generally know whether I am going to stick with a show after three hours.  If any of you guys or gals have comcast on demand, check out the extra episode, I am not counting the two hour pilot. Yeah Julianna really looks scary skinny, I hope that is just for this part, cause that girl is gonna die of starvation.  This is a hell of a cast! Especially whoever is playing Tiger Man. (or was that actor the cop in her dream?) ?

[voiceover]

Ugh.  

If I'd known about ep 3 before ep 1, I think I wouldn't have bothered to watch.  Despite my Adam Rothenberg jones.

Still divided on watching this all the way through.

[atlantaloves]

Trust me, the third episode is magic....really sick, I loved it, especially Tony the Tiger. WOW. Shame that she wasted all that food though.  You'll see. 

[voiceover]

On 6/6/2018 at 3:49 PM, BooBear said:

I didn't see any bestiality vibes. It was more like Tony the tiger -- she even made a cereal joke. That was the cartoon area of this episode.   

Hm.  Agree to disagree.

The show hasn't shied away from incorporating animation with rl.  The Tiger wasn't a cartoon.  It *could have been*, and that would've distanced us from what was going on.  

But it was Dominic dressed as a Furry.  I liked the dialogue but didn't care for the set-up.  

It seems to me that, just like UnReal and Girlfriend's Guide..., Marti can't commit to a theme.  So her heroines are strong and funny, and whiny put-upon victims.  Yeesh.  Pick a lane.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Even when the show goes veering off in a crazy direction like Plum's Tony the Tiger hallucination (which I was fine with because as weird as it was, we already knew that one of the possible side effects of going off Y was hallucinations), we still get nuggets of realistic truth like Kitty, a powerful woman, saying that men would rather destroy the world than let women rule it. The jerk in the convenience store was so typical too. First he aggressively hits on a woman and when she doesn't instantly swoon, he starts attacking her and slut shaming her and then finishes up by insulting a fat woman.

[crimsongrl]

I just watched all 3 episodes and I don't think there's enough here for me to continue watching. I love the lead actress, her friend at the bakery and her mom but I don't care about the other plots or characters.  I also can't quite get a handle on the tone of the show. I'd actually prefer it to be more serious and less cartoon-y.  Maybe its because the show is on AMC I expected something different. I wonder if this was shopped to Lifetime or Bravo or even E!? Though I admit if the show was on any of those channels I never would've given it a second thought since I don't like any of their programming.

Maybe I'll do a late summer binge and FF to the Plum parts. I've never heard of Joy Nash but I'll definitely watch her in whatever she does next.

[SimoneS]

Plum's hallucination of Dominic as the tiger was hilarious. Of course, he turns out to be an ass.

Steven is such a good friend. I love him and Plum's mother. I like Ben. He is sweet. He definitely likes Plum. 

I rather destroy the world than let Kitty rule it so there.

Joy Nash rules! What a talent

Edited June 12, 2018 by SimoneS

[Ottis]

The show started out promising but is losing my interest. The tiger stuff was uninteresting and went on forever. I much prefer the glimpses at how fat women are treated and what that causes, and the exploration of perspectives like the big woman last episode who was big and fabulous. 

Also, I have to put in the point that fat men face issues as well. It may not involve models and being skinny, which is insidious I agree. But there are desirable male body types as well and if you don’t look like them, you can ha r similar problems. So these issues shouldn’t be laid st the feet of men only. It’s societal.

Jennifer is too much, too soon. 

And who takes that long to read their email after a hallucination? That is the first place I would go after sobering up. That and social media. 

Edited June 12, 2018 by Ottis

[marys1000]

I'm loving this show and thoroughly enjoying it even if I don't quite get metaphor/hallucinations etc. very well.  

I love both themes; fat and......IDK I hate to use "man hating"  because it makes it sound like being angry about how women are treated by men is wrong.  And I'm just so sick of it.  A small town local I played with when young and knew my whole life just had her daughter shot down in the driveway by her boyfriend.  I worked most of my life in a very male dominated arena (military).  Bleh. 

So the Jennifer thing has me filled with glee and I refuse to feel guilty about it.  

I belong to a fb group called Flying Fat and the stories on there....her comment about flying really hit home.  

Not sure about the hacking thing....where is that going?  I guess that's related to Jennifer?  

 

It seemed like she was caving to the idea of the detective liking her, hope she sticks with her gut.  Although as a plot device that probably won't work as well as starting to think he might actually be interested.  

 

Is Y supposed to represent anti depressants in general?  Diet drugs?  I'm not sure why this is such a thing and referred to as if everyone knows about it, like it is THE drug out there. 

Edited June 12, 2018 by marys1000

[JudyObscure]

I read the book a few years ago and, based on that, expected to love this, but I'm finding it disjointed and tedious. I think it must be that the directors are spending much more time on things like the tiger hallucination than it would have taken to read. 

I very much enjoy the story  of a big woman learning to live  her authentic  life while dealing with a world full of beauty judges and weight loss scams.

  I don't enjoy the Jennifer bits at all.  I've always hated vigilante justice, even when the perpetrator deserves it, because of what it turns us into. I believe even rapists should go through the due process of the law.  Plus, I'm anti-death penalty, much less death with terror.

[JudyObscure]

4 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

I do like Plum's mom and Plum's friend Steven.  They are trying to be supportive of Plum, but are going about it in the wrong way.  

 

I agree with everything you say, Icemiser, but I can't put my finger on what Plum's mom is doing wrong, although I agree that it's not working. She says what I would probably say if Plum was my daughter.  I just feel for Ma Kettle because I know she's afraid Plum will hurt herself with surgery or drugs or some other drastic weight loss scheme.  That said, I think Plum's mother is the only person with any right to talk to Plum about her issues.

One of my pet peeves about this subject is people giving unasked for weight loss advice on the pretext of concern for another's health.  These same people are seldom seen lecturing others about their alcohol consumption or texting and driving, it's just the health risks of someone else's  obesity they all seem to lose sleep over.  As Lindy West famously responds to those people, "I don't owe you health."

[SunnyBeBe]

On 6/5/2018 at 4:22 PM, DiabLOL said:

My thoughts so far. I'll definitely keep watching but there's a few things that are already kind of off for me.

First of all my consistent reaction to the way Plum is treated is all over the place. I think I'd really find it more believable that total strangers go out of their way to be so over the top shitty to her because of her size if she were way larger and not so well groomed and dressed. While I appreciate the things she has to say about how painful it can be to be heavy it's just weird to watch a show where this stuff is cartoon level hostile while the rest can be realistic.

I buy it more when she's being insulted in her work place for example.

The tiger scene really bothered me. I guess the bestiality vibes were too much for me if the show is trying to humanize a fat woman.

I agree about having trouble believing that she is that attacked due to her size.  Maybe, it's not common in NYC, but, in NC, a lot of people, including women are her size.  She doesn't appear that different from the average person on the street, even in our capital city.  So, I have to just imagine that she's being treated that way. And don't you have to be at least 100 pounds overweight in order to qualify for bariatric surgery? 

It's a little out there for me, but, I am kind of enjoying it.  I think I'll see it through.  

I thought the tiger bit was funny.  I tried to ignore that there are people who are totally into that furry love thing though.  It's called Furry fetish.  I guess that's not what they were going for, were they?

[tennisgurl]

This show is super out there, and its still confusing, but I still enjoy it a lot. The main actress is so great, I really feel her pain, while also liking her as a person. The tiger bit went on a little long, but I was just sitting back and watching the crazy start. I dont think there was a bestiality thing going on, or even a furry thing. It was just a weird hallucination, going a long with the surreal parts of the show. 

Not sure about the Jennifer stuff, or where it fits into the story. I feel like its attached to Baptist Weight Loss people or whatever its called, or the ladies who work in the beauty closet, but I really have no clue. Will Plum find out who is really running the show? I can kind of be interested in a revenge fantasy of people kidnapping and killing rapists, but them dumping them out of planes seems counterproductive if their actually trying to do something good. That could easily hurt or kill someone just walking by on the street, not even getting into the morality of vigilante justice. 

I like Plums mom and her friend a lot. They really seem to mean well, even if they dont know what Plum is really going through. Also, am I crazy, or is Plum not that overweight? She is certainly a larger woman, but I wouldn't look at her on the street and be shocked at how such a huge person could even exist. I’m not an expert or anything, even close, but is that even the kind of weight level that tends to need surgery? I really have no clue, or maybe I just think she looks nice. She is in fashion though, and even a "average" sized person would probably feel like a land whale in that environment. 

Not surprising that the cop is married, but I am a little surprised that his wife knows that he flirts with women to get information, and seems to be cool with it, more or less. 

Edited June 12, 2018 by tennisgurl

[SunnyBeBe]

Tennisgurl, that's a good point about Jennifer.  They are supposed to be taking drastic action for revenge and theoretically to protect future victims, but, then they throw those men out of a plane, which could kill an innocent person on the street, even a child walking along or a baby in a stroller. It's ridiculous.  I hope things like that don't continue.  I like smarter writing than that. 

[DiabLOL]

I am a fat woman and I've lived in NYC for a significant amount of time. I have been all over the map weight wise. I've seen it all heard it all at ANY size. Unwelcome, rude abusive comments. Absolutely it's still the last group people feel ok saying outrageously horrible things to and about. 

The scenes that really bothered me were the one where she walked down the street and a group of young men bothered to follow her to bug her also the scene where again a group of young men were following her in their car just to insult her about her size. She is an exceptionally well groomed woman. She carries herself with dignity as far as I've noticed. She walks with purpose. She's well dressed. I didn't find it believable that these men would take the time and energy to go that far. Maybe yell a fat comment or say it too loudly as she walked by? Sure. The guy in the bodega? SURE of course he'd say something like that. Of course the women she works with offend and humiliate without even really giving a damn. Unhelpful family and friends? Yep. Let's unpack it all. THOSE are the things I want the show to explore. How does it all affect her life both romantic and professional? 

I feel that fat women have enough trouble being taken seriously so I had high hopes for this show. While I'm at it the cheesy animation needs to go.

[DiabLOL]

28 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Also, am I crazy, or is Plum not that overweight? She is certainly a larger woman, but I wouldn't look at her on the street and be shocked at how such a huge person could even exist. I’m not an expert or anything, even close, but is that even the kind of weight level that tends to need surgery? I really have no clue, or maybe I just think she looks nice. She is in fashion though, and even a "average" sized person would probably feel like a land whale in that environment. 

I know. Me too. I really expected someone way larger to be cast but this is Hollywood's version of monstrously fat the same way that a cardigan and glasses will render Megan Fox "plain". Plum seems perfectly healthy and mobile. She wears cosmetics, combs her expensive looking haircut daily etc. And there's plenty of women her size in NYC and bigger and I've never even heard of a car of young men slowing down on a Manhattan street to note this. Working in fashion though? That all rang very true. Keep her invisible but use her brain with minimal concern for tact.

 

She really is an emotional eater. Instead of surgery why hasn't she tried something like CBT or the other things recommended upthread? Instead she ditches her meds. Very dangerous and she should know better (also, the elaborate hallucinations were ridiculous). 

 

28 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Not surprising that the cop is married, but I am a little surprised that his wife knows that he flirts with women to get information, and seems to be cool with it, more or less. 

I'm sure he told his wife that Plum is huge so she's not worried. 

[Poohbear617]

Help, I'm confused about Dominic the cop.  Is he still on the police force, or he is he a PI  of sorts,  or is he working for Kitty on the side. Sorry we got distracted here and could not follow closely. Appreciate any light that could be shed.

[atlantaloves]

Yeah, I am surprised that the detective's wife knows what he is up to, but maybe that story will play out. I tell you what, I would not want my hubby flirting with his targets. Anyway, I love Plum, she's kinda stupid about her meds, but hey we all can be. I am totally enjoying this show. Everyone on the planet knows that you have to take your dose down slowly when you get off that kind of medication. Damn! That part did not ring true to me. Oh, and who charges 147.00 worth of food and doesn't eat it? Not this lady! Oink! ?

[atlantaloves]

Oh God,  hacking up a fur ball would have been comedy gold...I'm sorry, I am a sick sissy.

[huahaha]

I'm only a little shy of Plum's size and have never experienced street harassment about my weight, even living in NYC. I'm not even particularly well put together. Don't get me wrong - plenty of places are nightmares when you're overweight, from airplanes to doctors' offices. I wouldn't consider working for the fashion industry in a million years. But the world doesn't go out of its way to make me feel bad.

For those saying fat is the last socially acceptable prejudice, talk to a trans person or two.

[SunnyBeBe]

58 minutes ago, Poohbear617 said:

Help, I'm confused about Dominic the cop.  Is he still on the police force, or he is he a PI  of sorts,  or is he working for Kitty on the side. Sorry we got distracted here and could not follow closely. Appreciate any light that could be shed.

I wondered the same thing.  I thought that when he met Plum in the lobby, he said he was a detective, like Police detective. But, later, he seems to be working like a private investigator.  If he's an actual law enforcement officer, he'd need search warrants to download things off her computer, if it's to be admissible as evidence. 

[Former Nun]

3 hours ago, DiabLOL said:

I'm sure he told his wife that Plum is huge so she's not worried. 

Yeah, what man could ever--EVER be interested in a "huge" woman?

[Ottis]

2 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

True, but I can't imagine there being a sympathetic tv series about overweight men, they would be labeled as wimps or worse.  I doubt many men would watch it.

 

I didn't like it because going off meds like that can be extremely dangerous.  Instead, it was treated as if it were pure comedy.  I am surprised Plum didn't hack up a fur ball.

Exactly, on the men issue. I just wanted to add that because the show is walking a fine line between exploring an issue and blaming men for it. 

[Former Nun]

On 6/5/2018 at 1:22 PM, DiabLOL said:

I guess the bestiality vibes were too much for me if the show is trying to humanize a fat woman.

I think it would need to feature an actual tiger to come close to a bestiality vibe--not a guy in a great costume.  For me this was a hallucination about something Plum relates to sex: male, powerful, flirtateous, demanding, food.  I also expected this to be discussed on Unapologetic.  I watched it until the last couple of minutes: nuthin'.   Did you see anything?

[Madding crowd]

I read the book awhile ago and remember liking Plum and hating the Jennifers. Much of the book was surreal so I expect the same of the show. Adore Joy Nash, she is a beautiful woman. I was actually scared to come on this thread because so many threads on this forum are filled with calling fat women “baby beluga”, insisting that no man could love a fat woman and posting offensive memes comparing women to animals.

I am enjoying the show and feel good that a fat woman is not treated as a piece of garbage for once.

[attica]

8 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

 I can't put my finger on what Plum's mom is doing wrong

Platitudes. Repeatedly telling somebody they're 'beautiful just as they are ' when the whole rest of the universe is telling them they're 'wrong ' just feels stupid and insulting. Mom means well and she loves Plum, but she's trying to help from the wrong direction, minimizing Plum's pain. Vorena's approach, where she acknowledges  what Plum is actually going through, is more resonant. Plum feels seen by Vorena, invisible to her mom 

[txhorns79]

Quote

I'm sure he told his wife that Plum is huge so she's not worried. 

Unless her husband has a history of cheating or has otherwise proven himself untrustworthy, I'm sure she understands the various things a cop does to gain the trust of a witness or target and doesn't really spend her time worrying about other women. 

Quote

Platitudes. Repeatedly telling somebody they're 'beautiful just as they are ' when the whole rest of the universe is telling them they're 'wrong ' just feels stupid and insulting. Mom means well and she loves Plum, but she's trying to help from the wrong direction, minimizing Plum's pain.

 

I think it's much simpler.  Plum's mom isn't listening to Plum, and doesn't really understand the issues that Plum is concerned about. 

[JudyObscure]

9 hours ago, attica said:

Platitudes. Repeatedly telling somebody they're 'beautiful just as they are ' when the whole rest of the universe is telling them they're 'wrong ' just feels stupid and insulting. Mom means well and she loves Plum, but she's trying to help from the wrong direction, minimizing Plum's pain. Vorena's approach, where she acknowledges  what Plum is actually going through, is more resonant. Plum feels seen by Vorena, invisible to her mom 

 

9 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

 

I think it's much simpler.  Plum's mom isn't listening to Plum, and doesn't really understand the issues that Plum is concerned about. 

Thanks you two, I'm starting to get it.

Those of us who also watch, "This is Us," saw a hint of this between Kate and her mother when they went together to discuss surgery for Kate. 

I do wish the actress playing Plum was closer to Kate's (Chrissy Metz) size, it would make Plum more like the book's 300 lb character and some of her struggles more believable.

[izabella]

Aside from the gruesome, murderous Jennifer stuff, I like this show.  I haven't read the book - didn't know there was a book when I started watching - so I don't have a sense for where all this is going.  I hope they don't end up glorifying murder and vigilante "justice."  If Plum gets sucked into killing people, no, just no.

[Tetraneutron]

On 6/5/2018 at 4:22 PM, DiabLOL said:

My thoughts so far. I'll definitely keep watching but there's a few things that are already kind of off for me.

First of all my consistent reaction to the way Plum is treated is all over the place. 

Joy Nash is Plum's size (obviously) and she's been active for years in movements talking about how she gets mistreated as a fat person. So I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt on this one. 

On 6/12/2018 at 7:18 AM, marys1000 said:

Is Y supposed to represent anti depressants in general?  Diet drugs?  I'm not sure why this is such a thing and referred to as if everyone knows about it, like it is THE drug out there. 

It's supposed to be an anti-depressant. Like Prozac or Zoloft, the kind where you just need the brand name. 

On 6/12/2018 at 7:32 AM, JudyObscure said:

  I don't enjoy the Jennifer bits at all.  I've always hated vigilante justice, even when the perpetrator deserves it, because of what it turns us into. I believe even rapists should go through the due process of the law.  Plus, I'm anti-death penalty, much less death with terror.

Marti Noxon said she saw it as a female version of Fight Club, an idea I find FASCINATING. The original Fight Club is kind of stupid, with well-off men having an identity crisis over the fact that marge corporations make them buy things and they have to work at a comfortable, easy job to make money. But the same concept against misogyny, against rapists? That sounds way more interesting. 

I'm curious to see how Jennifer ties in with Calliope house, because they seem completely different, a vigilante justice movement and a nice, body positivity therapist. Focusing on rapists vs fat shaming? I'm curious where that goes. 

[SimoneS]

22 hours ago, Former Nun said:

I think it would need to feature an actual tiger to come close to a bestiality vibe--not a guy in a great costume.  For me this was a hallucination about something Plum relates to sex: male, powerful, flirtateous, demanding, food.  I also expected this to be discussed on Unapologetic.  I watched it until the last couple of minutes: nuthin'.   Did you see anything?

I interpreted Plum's hallucination the same as you did. It wasn't discussed on Unapologetic which is too bad because I thought it was interesting. Turns out that Unapologetic isn't an aftershow that focuses on talking about the show, but rather it discusses only bits of the show through the lenses of women's wider social issues.

[huahaha]

12 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I do wish the actress playing Plum was closer to Kate's (Chrissy Metz) size, it would make Plum more like the book's 300 lb character and some of her struggles more believable.

Actually, Chrissy Metz clearly weighed much more at the start of This Is Us.

Check out A Fat Rant to see a much younger and lighter Joy Nash at 224.

Edited June 14, 2018 by huahaha

[Former Nun]

8 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Turns out that Unapologetic isn't an aftershow that focuses on talking about the show, but rather it discusses only bits of the show through the lenses of women's wider social issues.

That's good...and bad.  Good because I watch too many things already, so I can skip this.   Bad because some of us on this forum (and others) might have enjoyed it.

[txhorns79]

Quote

I'm curious to see how Jennifer ties in with Calliope house, because they seem completely different, a vigilante justice movement and a nice, body positivity therapist. Focusing on rapists vs fat shaming? I'm curious where that goes. 

I was thinking the "nice body positivity" therapy is just the cover they use to screen participants.  (And no, I have not read the book and have not read spoilers, so I have no idea if I am right or wrong on this.)  A woman who they don't think will be open to the more radical aspect of things will be screened out and referred elsewhere, while a woman who they think is open will gradually be introduced to the more radical philosophy.  

[Accidental Martyr]

On 6/12/2018 at 2:45 PM, SunnyBeBe said:

Tennisgurl, that's a good point about Jennifer.  They are supposed to be taking drastic action for revenge and theoretically to protect future victims, but, then they throw those men out of a plane, which could kill an innocent person on the street, even a child walking along or a baby in a stroller. It's ridiculous.  I hope things like that don't continue.  I like smarter writing than that. 

This is the thing that bothers me the most about the show. Dropping bodies from a plane onto a populated area is too ridiculous. A few inches difference and multiple people on the ground could be killed.    

On 6/12/2018 at 7:59 PM, Madding crowd said:

Adore Joy Nash, she is a beautiful woman.

Absolutely!

[luna1122]

On ‎06‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 5:38 PM, huahaha said:

I'm only a little shy of Plum's size and have never experienced street harassment about my weight, even living in NYC. I'm not even particularly well put together. Don't get me wrong - plenty of places are nightmares when you're overweight, from airplanes to doctors' offices. I wouldn't consider working for the fashion industry in a million years. But the world doesn't go out of its way to make me feel bad.

For those saying fat is the last socially acceptable prejudice, talk to a trans person or two.

yeah...I wasn't always a big girl, but I am now, and I have never had anyone harass me or insult me, let alone multiple people in a day. I can't even imagine this happening, tho I won't doubt anyone who says it's happened to them. I'm just saying I've never experienced it, or actually ever witnessed it either. Of course...I live in Kentucky. We're just fatter here than NYC. I don't think Plum seems all that huge, either. Her arms and legs are still relatively toned and proportional, and as noted, while she almost perpetually wears a 'hurt me' look on her face, she's still clearly well maintained and attractive. I kind of hate the whole notion that she's a virgin who's never had a love interest, too. Plenty of big chicks have plenty of sex and relationships and confidence. I loved the girl in the pilot episode who noped right on out of the weight watchers meeting. But..this is Plum's story, not hers.

I also think Joy Nash's inherent sassiness comes thru a little too much for the mopey Plum...she appears to know how to flirt, tho it seems as if Plum would not.

I know it's just as bad to skinny-shame as fat-shame (tho very few people really think it's a shame to be thin) but I literally did gasp when I saw Julianna Marguiles in her workout clothes.

[Former Nun]

5 hours ago, Accidental Martyr said:

This is the thing that bothers me the most about the show. Dropping bodies from a plane onto a populated area is too ridiculous. A few inches difference and multiple people on the ground could be killed.    

(1)  It's fiction, so miracles in timing and engineering are available.    (2)  It's quirky.   (3)  I've seen worse.   (4) The best is yet to come? 

[txhorns79]

Quote

For those saying fat is the last socially acceptable prejudice, talk to a trans person or two.

I'd just say it isn't a competition.  People are terrible to each other for all sorts of reasons.  I don't view the harassment Plum gets just walking down the street to be all that realistic, but I understand that the show operates in its own very heightened reality.

[Former Nun]

13 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I don't view the harassment Plum gets just walking down the street to be all that realistic,

I didn't either, but I have a friend (my age: 78) who has been "a fat girl" all her life.  She couldn't even finish watching the first show because it made her so unhappy.

[Lunula]

On 6/13/2018 at 7:10 AM, JudyObscure said:

I do wish the actress playing Plum was closer to Kate's (Chrissy Metz) size, it would make Plum more like the book's 300 lb character and some of her struggles more believable.

I would think Joy Nash is around 300 lbs. In fact, I just did a quick search and found an article on Newsweek stating she was 293 lbs. She's doing a kick ass job with this role, IMO and I fully buy her struggles. Around 8 years ago, I lost a lot of weight and I was shocked at how differently people treated me before and after. At 5'6, when I was 230 lbs, I was invisible - as hard as I tried, people (particularly men) didn't want to look me in the eye, smile or say hello. Now, at 140'ish, the world is so much friendlier (literally, everywhere). I never got harassed like in this show, but I was in NYC last year on a business trip and went out to lunch with an overweight coworker - she's a little shorter than me and built much like Joy Nash, so probably around 300'ish. She was put together, in work clothing, hair and makeup done and she's quite pretty - and guess what? We walked by some construction (I assume) workers eating lunch and she got full-on harassed. One even called her a "big blue elephant" (she was wearing a blue dress) and one guy made pig noises. I was pissed, but she insisted we ignore it. I followed her lead and didn't bring it up, as she obviously didn't want to talk about it. 

All that aside, I'm digging the show. I've not read the books, but I find it intriguing and I like that they're portraying it a "bit out there" - it keeps the vigilante justice in line with other comic book / superhero shows I like (Jessica Jones, Daredevil, Arrow, etc.). 

[For Cereals]

On 6/13/2018 at 4:10 AM, JudyObscure said:

I do wish the actress playing Plum was closer to Kate's (Chrissy Metz) size, it would make Plum more like the book's 300 lb character and some of her struggles more believable.

To me, I think her representation is accurate.  At my heaviest, 327, I was about Plum’s size. Depends on how a person carries their weight, their height, etc.  Chrissy Metz is more of an apple shape, so she carries her weight differently and it looks more pronounced in certain areas.  Just like counting people’s money, I don’t want to get into counting lbs, but I think Chrissy is probably over 300.  Again, I am only saying this out of my opinion on accuracy in portrayal, not fat-shaming.

I like the themes of the show around Plum’s weight.  Yes, they are exaggerated because the writers have to hit us over the head, but they do resonate.  Definitely, the pretty face and here’s some unsolicited advice and the weight counseling parts.  I find Ma Kettle’s character interesting.  Usually, I’d expect to see flashbacks of the mother figure putting Plum on her first diet as a child, but not the well-meaning yet tone-deaf variety.

I’m curious to see everyone’s motives develop, especially Verena’s.  I’m in for now, but this can definitely go sideways quickly if there’s too much focus on The Jennifers and goes too cops and robbery or gets too Ugly Betty or Drop Dead Diva cutesy.

[film noire]

On 6/11/2018 at 11:46 PM, Ottis said:

 So these issues shouldn’t be laid st the feet of men only. It’s societal.

The issues men face are far less onerous  (just one statistic tells the tale; men experience fat shaming when they reach a BMI of over 35; women face it when they hit only 27). Society allows men to take up space in a way women are denied, and I love that the show isn't backing away from that truth.

 

On 6/12/2018 at 3:20 PM, tennisgurl said:

I am a little surprised that his wife knows that he flirts with women to get information, and seems to be cool with it, more or less. 

The look she gave him, when she asked about the name of the informant?

She's either part of Jennifer, or a Jen sympathizer.

 

On 6/18/2018 at 3:42 PM, Lunula said:

 One even called her a "big blue elephant" (she was wearing a blue dress) and one guy made pig noises. 

I've been skinny, fat, and all points in between; the only constant has been men feeling free to comment on my body in public.

Edited July 5, 2018 by film noire

[Ottis]

5 hours ago, film noire said:

The issues men face are far less onerous  (just one statistic tells the tale; men experience fat shaming when they reach a BMI of over 35; women face it when they hit only 27). Society allows men to take up space in a way women are denied, and I love that the show isn't backing away from that truth.

That has nothing to do with my point, which was that these issues are societal and shouldn't be laid at the feet of men. SOME men are PART of it. But so are many women, and so is our society as a whole. There was a time when bigger women were seen as more desirable and attractive, and representative of success. Different time, different society and, generally, same men.

As to the point you are making, I would argue that men face different issues that are MORE onerous than what women face. Men are expected far more than women to be successful in their professional lives because they are expected to take care of their family. It doesn't matter if you are upper class or on the Maury show, the concept of "I take care of my responsibilities" applies far more to men in this society than women. And for men who are struggling, they are viewed analogous to overweight women.

This show is trying to divide us. I think we all have issues, and we would all be better off if we gave each other a break on all of them. This is why I struggle with Dietland. 

[film noire]

4 hours ago, Ottis said:

That has nothing to do with my point, which was that these issues are societal and shouldn't be laid at the feet of men. SOME men are PART of it. But so are many women, and so is our society as a whole. 

The society we live in (awash in rape culture) is a patriarchy, not a matriarchy. Women did not build a world where men make more money (even with less work expereince and education), men crave porn showing women being raped and beaten for their sexual "pleasure",  and female bodies are treated like public property.

And that's what the show is exploring -- the misogynistic core at the heart of patriarchal culture.

 

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There was a time when bigger women were seen as more desirable and attractive, and representative of success. Different time, different society and, generally, same men.

And those standards were also created by men/enacted by women to survive in a male-dominated world (where they had not a vote or penny to their unmarried names).  And (post modern era) imo, it's not an accident that as the rights of women have grown, the size of a "desirable" female body has gotten both smaller,  and more cartoonish -- stick thin with giant fake breasts -- real women as living blow-up dolls, and the esthetics of porn as the new beauty myth.  (Which was one of the points woven into the "Plum being made fuckable: My Bare Lady" sequence.)

 

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This show is trying to divide us. I think we all have issues, and we would all be better off if we gave each other a break on all of them. 

We may all have issues, but those involving women are far, far more dangerous -- as Plum said (quoting Atwood) women live in fear men will kill them, while men live in fear they will be laughed at. One gender fears murder, the other mockery; the show is a mirror, not a stick. 

Edited July 5, 2018 by film noire

[Ottis]

46 minutes ago, film noire said:

We may all have issues, but those involving women are far, far more dangerous -- as Plum said (quoting Atwood) women live in fear men will kill them, while men live in fear they will be laughed at. One gender fears murder, the other mockery; the show is a mirror, not a stick. 

That I agree with. However, it's a mirror reflecting a specific thing to the exclusion of all else. There are plenty of men who don't think like this, don't act like this and can't fathom, say, Plum being punched by a man no matter what she did before that.

Patriarchy does not equal misogyny. The former focuses on men and men having power for their desires, the latter is consistent contempt or hatred for women. One can be a tool of the other, by some people. Misogyny does not have to be at the heart of  a patriarchal culture. For Plum, it may be in the people she is shown meeting, but there could be as many or more other people who don't act or believe that way.