Jump to content
Forums forums
PRIMETIMER
saoirse

S01.E03: Y Not

Recommended Posts

On 6/13/2018 at 7:10 AM, JudyObscure said:

I do wish the actress playing Plum was closer to Kate's (Chrissy Metz) size, it would make Plum more like the book's 300 lb character and some of her struggles more believable.

I would think Joy Nash is around 300 lbs. In fact, I just did a quick search and found an article on Newsweek stating she was 293 lbs. She's doing a kick ass job with this role, IMO and I fully buy her struggles. Around 8 years ago, I lost a lot of weight and I was shocked at how differently people treated me before and after. At 5'6, when I was 230 lbs, I was invisible - as hard as I tried, people (particularly men) didn't want to look me in the eye, smile or say hello. Now, at 140'ish, the world is so much friendlier (literally, everywhere). I never got harassed like in this show, but I was in NYC last year on a business trip and went out to lunch with an overweight coworker - she's a little shorter than me and built much like Joy Nash, so probably around 300'ish. She was put together, in work clothing, hair and makeup done and she's quite pretty - and guess what? We walked by some construction (I assume) workers eating lunch and she got full-on harassed. One even called her a "big blue elephant" (she was wearing a blue dress) and one guy made pig noises. I was pissed, but she insisted we ignore it. I followed her lead and didn't bring it up, as she obviously didn't want to talk about it. 

All that aside, I'm digging the show. I've not read the books, but I find it intriguing and I like that they're portraying it a "bit out there" - it keeps the vigilante justice in line with other comic book / superhero shows I like (Jessica Jones, Daredevil, Arrow, etc.). 

  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post
On 6/13/2018 at 4:10 AM, JudyObscure said:

I do wish the actress playing Plum was closer to Kate's (Chrissy Metz) size, it would make Plum more like the book's 300 lb character and some of her struggles more believable.

To me, I think her representation is accurate.  At my heaviest, 327, I was about Plum’s size. Depends on how a person carries their weight, their height, etc.  Chrissy Metz is more of an apple shape, so she carries her weight differently and it looks more pronounced in certain areas.  Just like counting people’s money, I don’t want to get into counting lbs, but I think Chrissy is probably over 300.  Again, I am only saying this out of my opinion on accuracy in portrayal, not fat-shaming.

I like the themes of the show around Plum’s weight.  Yes, they are exaggerated because the writers have to hit us over the head, but they do resonate.  Definitely, the pretty face and here’s some unsolicited advice and the weight counseling parts.  I find Ma Kettle’s character interesting.  Usually, I’d expect to see flashbacks of the mother figure putting Plum on her first diet as a child, but not the well-meaning yet tone-deaf variety.

I’m curious to see everyone’s motives develop, especially Verena’s.  I’m in for now, but this can definitely go sideways quickly if there’s too much focus on The Jennifers and goes too cops and robbery or gets too Ugly Betty or Drop Dead Diva cutesy.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
On 6/11/2018 at 11:46 PM, Ottis said:

 So these issues shouldn’t be laid st the feet of men only. It’s societal.

The issues men face are far less onerous  (just one statistic tells the tale; men experience fat shaming when they reach a BMI of over 35; women face it when they hit only 27). Society allows men to take up space in a way women are denied, and I love that the show isn't backing away from that truth.

 

On 6/12/2018 at 3:20 PM, tennisgurl said:

I am a little surprised that his wife knows that he flirts with women to get information, and seems to be cool with it, more or less. 

The look she gave him, when she asked about the name of the informant?

She's either part of Jennifer, or a Jen sympathizer.

 

On 6/18/2018 at 3:42 PM, Lunula said:

 One even called her a "big blue elephant" (she was wearing a blue dress) and one guy made pig noises. 

I've been skinny, fat, and all points in between; the only constant has been men feeling free to comment on my body in public.

Edited by film noire
  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
5 hours ago, film noire said:

The issues men face are far less onerous  (just one statistic tells the tale; men experience fat shaming when they reach a BMI of over 35; women face it when they hit only 27). Society allows men to take up space in a way women are denied, and I love that the show isn't backing away from that truth.

That has nothing to do with my point, which was that these issues are societal and shouldn't be laid at the feet of men. SOME men are PART of it. But so are many women, and so is our society as a whole. There was a time when bigger women were seen as more desirable and attractive, and representative of success. Different time, different society and, generally, same men.

As to the point you are making, I would argue that men face different issues that are MORE onerous than what women face. Men are expected far more than women to be successful in their professional lives because they are expected to take care of their family. It doesn't matter if you are upper class or on the Maury show, the concept of "I take care of my responsibilities" applies far more to men in this society than women. And for men who are struggling, they are viewed analogous to overweight women.

This show is trying to divide us. I think we all have issues, and we would all be better off if we gave each other a break on all of them. This is why I struggle with Dietland. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, Ottis said:

That has nothing to do with my point, which was that these issues are societal and shouldn't be laid at the feet of men. SOME men are PART of it. But so are many women, and so is our society as a whole. 

The society we live in (awash in rape culture) is a patriarchy, not a matriarchy. Women did not build a world where men make more money (even with less work expereince and education), men crave porn showing women being raped and beaten for their sexual "pleasure",  and female bodies are treated like public property.

And that's what the show is exploring -- the misogynistic core at the heart of patriarchal culture.

 

Quote

There was a time when bigger women were seen as more desirable and attractive, and representative of success. Different time, different society and, generally, same men.

And those standards were also created by men/enacted by women to survive in a male-dominated world (where they had not a vote or penny to their unmarried names).  And (post modern era) imo, it's not an accident that as the rights of women have grown, the size of a "desirable" female body has gotten both smaller,  and more cartoonish -- stick thin with giant fake breasts -- real women as living blow-up dolls, and the esthetics of porn as the new beauty myth.  (Which was one of the points woven into the "Plum being made fuckable: My Bare Lady" sequence.)

 

Quote

This show is trying to divide us. I think we all have issues, and we would all be better off if we gave each other a break on all of them. 

We may all have issues, but those involving women are far, far more dangerous -- as Plum said (quoting Atwood) women live in fear men will kill them, while men live in fear they will be laughed at. One gender fears murder, the other mockery; the show is a mirror, not a stick. 

Edited by film noire
  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
46 minutes ago, film noire said:

We may all have issues, but those involving women are far, far more dangerous -- as Plum said (quoting Atwood) women live in fear men will kill them, while men live in fear they will be laughed at. One gender fears murder, the other mockery; the show is a mirror, not a stick. 

That I agree with. However, it's a mirror reflecting a specific thing to the exclusion of all else. There are plenty of men who don't think like this, don't act like this and can't fathom, say, Plum being punched by a man no matter what she did before that.

Patriarchy does not equal misogyny. The former focuses on men and men having power for their desires, the latter is consistent contempt or hatred for women. One can be a tool of the other, by some people. Misogyny does not have to be at the heart of  a patriarchal culture. For Plum, it may be in the people she is shown meeting, but there could be as many or more other people who don't act or believe that way.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
On 7/5/2018 at 6:44 PM, Ottis said:

 However, it's a mirror reflecting a specific thing to the exclusion of all else. 

I think a show about misogyny,  rape culture, and female bodies,  should be allowed to focus on misogyny, rape culture and female bodies -- and (as is the case with series starring male leads) I think the show is just staying focused on the story at hand; the journey of a fat woman through a landscape brutally hostile to her needs, desires and humanity.  It's not called "What About Chubby Men and Fat Kids and Everybody Else and Their Weight  Issues?" ; ) - it unapologetically stars a fat woman, in a storyline about being fat,  in which the fat woman is not going to lose weight to get the guy, but instead embrace her body to win herself. 

And - if the show is going where it looks to be going -  then the fat chick is going to be a badass, reject the opinions of a world that hates her, and be radicalized to her own beauty and power. All of which is as uncompromising as tv has ever gotten for fat women (or thin women, come to think of it; I can't remember a tv show in which a healthy contempt for the opinion of the world drove multiple female characters).

So diluting that story by making it a story about something completely different (b/c fat men and fat women do not share the same level of rejection/hatred, never mind misogyny) does not make sense to me. (I would happily watch a show about fat men and their path, btw.)

 

Quote

Patriarchy does not equal misogyny.

I've never seen/read about a patriarchal culture that did not also include misogyny -- do you have a specific culture you're referencing?  (eta: on re-reading, that sounded snarky, but I'm asking sincerely/not being snotty). As to the show itself, I think the universe of Dietland makes a very compelling case that patriarchy and misogyny are tightly entwined. 

Edited by film noire
  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post

Even if I was for vigilanty justice and the death penalty (which I'm both against), I would never throw somebody out of a plane. I don't know how Jennifer justifies this to themselves. Do you know what happens if a person falls on another from that height? They are both dead, not just the alledged rapist you were trying to kill, but also an innocent pedestrian. That scenario isn't even unlikely in a place as crowded as New York. The body at the beginning of the episode fell like 10cm away from two people.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...