Super Social Analysis: Gender, Race, Ethnicity, and LGBT in Movies

[ApathyMonger]

6 hours ago, starri said:

The MCU's female King of the Asgardians is going to spend Thor 4 looking for her queen.

Good for Tessa Thompson.

I guess the rumours about Richard Madden's character in Eternals being gay were untrue though.

[Danny Franks]

54 minutes ago, ApathyMonger said:

I guess the rumours about Richard Madden's character in Eternals being gay were untrue though.

I thought the rumours about a gay lead character were about Hercules, who isn't actually in the Eternals. And it looks like there was some conflation, because a lot of the rumours state "gay, Asian lead". Well the Asian lead was obviously Shang-Chi, and will apparently be played by Simu Liu.

I don't know if it was rumoured that Ikaris would be gay, but I do think it's cool that Makkari, rather than being a white guy, will now be a deaf, African-American woman.

[Guest]

On 7/21/2019 at 2:17 AM, ApathyMonger said:

I guess the rumours about Richard Madden's character in Eternals being gay were untrue though.

Kevin Feige also confirmed that The Eternals will feature a LGBTQ character but he hasn’t said who yet. The Valkyrie confirmation came first which led to incorrect headlines that she would be the first. 

Edited July 22, 2019 by Guest

[Wynterwolf]

All the casting notices for the queer character that I saw were for an Asian male actor, but who knows what might have changed as the production process has progressed.  It's one of those 'I'll believe it when I see it' things, no matter what KF says.  Because it could end up just being something like 'Gay Joe Russo'.  

eta (this was from here) :

Quote

Previously we provided you an exclusive story about Marvel’s desire to cast an openly gay male lead. Now we can bring this additional, exclusive information from That Hashtag Show: we can confirm that the studio is seeking an actor to fill the role of James, who is “intellectual, emotional, and has a strong sense of family.” Specifically, the studio is looking at openly gay/bisexual Asian actors in their 20’s.

So it could be one of those non-comic book new superheros they've also talked about. Which would be a way to avoid any comparisons to comic history for the character. I'll still believe it when I see it on screen.

(it also might be something they're saving for D23)

Edited July 22, 2019 by Wynterwolf

[JessePinkman]

Were the race and LGBT+ threads combined into one mega thread? Or am I losing it?

[Trini]

17 minutes ago, JessePinkman said:

Were the race and LGBT+ threads combined into one mega thread? Or am I losing it?

Yep. And Gender, too. 😐

[JessePinkman]

Just now, Trini said:

Yep. And Gender, too. 😐

Thanks. Also: Yikes. 

[ApathyMonger]

13 hours ago, Wynterwolf said:

So it could be one of those non-comic book new superheros they've also talked about. Which would be a way to avoid any comparisons to comic history for the character. I'll still believe it when I see it on screen. 

It's also possible it's not a superhero character, and just a supporting part, which would fit with most of the times they announce these main casts.

[Athena]

The thread merger happened. All discussion of it is off topic. Further posts discussing it or mod actions will result in post being removed and warnings. 

[methodwriter85]

Julia Cudney analyzes the teen movie "After". Lots of good stuff in this about consent and abusive relationships dressed up in romance.

[angora]

Marvel's Shang Chi casting announcements got me so pumped, especially the news that Tony Leung Chiu-wai will be playing the Mandarin. I've adored him for years and have been waiting so long for him to be in a Hollywood film. For anyone who's unfamiliar, Leung is a massive Hong Kong star who's made a ton of movies both there and in mainland China, everything from epics to indies, drama to romance to comedy to action, etc., etc. Some of my favorites of his are Hero, Red Cliff, Infernal Affairs, and any of his collaborations with director Wong Kar-wai, especially In the Mood for Love.

A few years ago, I was thinking about him never having done an American film, and it hit me that it was because Hollywood would have no idea what to do with him. It was during a period that saw lots of news about whitewashing/White Savior narratives in Asian and American-American stories - I think it was around the time of Iron Fist, Ghost in the Shell, and The Great Wall (I know, U.S./China co-production, but still, that teaser that was "Matt Damon is in This Movie, and That's All You Need to Know"? Oof.) I realized that Leung probably wouldn't be able to be cast in Hollywood versions of any of his own movies, especially not as a romantic male lead, and that pissed me off so hard. True, other Chinese stars have broken into Hollywood, but I couldn't see him going the Jackie Chan/Jet Li/Chow Yun-fat route of mainly just being a Chinese action guy. His film roles/genres are so varied, and I couldn't imagine Hollywood be able to picture him in any of that.

I couldn't help but think how he gets cast in mainland China films despite not speaking Mandarin - he's just that good and that much of a star that it doesn't matter, and someone dubs in his dialogue - but despite being fluent in English, Hollywood wouldn't give him anything worth his time.

All of which is to say, the writing for the Mandarin better be on par with Killmonger/the Vulture and not like Malekith, because Tony Leung Chiu-wai deserves the best. After 25+ years of Leung's career and some forward Hollywood momentum with films like Crazy Rich Asians and Searching, I'm so ready for this moment and can't wait to see him in an MCU film.

At the same time, though, I'm happy that that Asian-Canadian actor Simu Liu is playing the title role and Awkwafina is also going to be in the film. When Hollywood looks to cater to the Chinese box office, it often leaves Asian-American actors out of the equation, and I'm glad to see both represented here.

[xaxat]

I am all for diversity. And I really like Tiffany Haddish. 

But the idea that a black woman had some kind of connection to the Manhattan Irish mob in 1978 strains credulity too much for me.

[methodwriter85]

I really wanted to get into Beach Rats because I enjoyed Harris Dickinson's stylized weird artistic movie Postcards from London, but I thought it was pretty awful. Literally a movie that could have been made in 2004, just with more graphic sex scenes.

However, Harris Dickinson is gorgeous, so there's always that.

Edited July 29, 2019 by methodwriter85

[starri]

Marvel has put out a casting call for a trans actress.

If this is correct, their most prominent trans character is Sera, the partner of Thor's sister Angela.  If that is who they're casting, I hope she ends up as King Valkyrie's Queen in Thor: Love and Thunder.  

This would make me even more excited for Love and Thunder than I already am.

[Scarlett45]

On 7/28/2019 at 8:21 PM, xaxat said:

I am all for diversity. And I really like Tiffany Haddish. 

But the idea that a black woman had some kind of connection to the Manhattan Irish mob in 1978 strains credulity too much for me.

I don’t know what this movie is about but she could be someone influentials  mistress or “side child” , wanting pay back because of affection towards them and/or segregation. That would actually make sense. I’m sure plenty of Irish mafia members had black mistresses/girlfriends and non marital children. 

[AimingforYoko]

On 7/28/2019 at 8:21 PM, xaxat said:

I am all for diversity. And I really like Tiffany Haddish. 

But the idea that a black woman had some kind of connection to the Manhattan Irish mob in 1978 strains credulity too much for me.

She's married to James Badge Dale's character. She says plainly in the trailer, "They never wanted me in the family anyway."

[Silver Raven]

On 7/28/2019 at 6:21 PM, xaxat said:

I am all for diversity. And I really like Tiffany Haddish. 

But the idea that a black woman had some kind of connection to the Manhattan Irish mob in 1978 strains credulity too much for me.

The movie is not the original source material.

She is married to an Irish mobster.  They discuss it in the trailer.

[Scarlett45]

6 hours ago, Silver Raven said:

The movie is not the original source material.

She is married to an Irish mobster.  They discuss it in the trailer.

Thank you. 

[AimingforYoko]

On 8/1/2019 at 6:12 AM, starri said:

Marvel has put out a casting call for a trans actress.

But Scarlett Johansson is right there! I kid, I kid.

On 7/28/2019 at 8:21 PM, xaxat said:

I am all for diversity. And I really like Tiffany Haddish. 

But the idea that a black woman had some kind of connection to the Manhattan Irish mob in 1978 strains credulity too much for me.

I saw the movie and you don't have to worry about them pretending it's not a thing. It's a thing. A big thing.

[Dejana]

[Luckylyn]

Spoilers for It are included in these interesting articles 

Let’s Talk About Richie and Eddie In IT Chapter Two

It Chapter Two Reckons with Stephen King’s Troubling Legacy of LGBTQ+ Representation

Edited September 8, 2019 by Luckylyn

[methodwriter85]

Mark Wahlberg is apparently starring in a movie about the suicide of Jadin Bell, as Jadin's father Joe Bell. If I'm going to guess, it's going to be mostly about Joe Bell coming to terms with his son's suicide by going into social advocacy before his own untimely death after getting by a truck on the side of a highway at the age of 48. Mark really wants that Oscar, damn it.

I really, really, really don't know how I feel about this.

[Anduin]

Is height an acceptable topic for this thread? I just read about a terrible movie called The Tall Girl. Said girl is 1.85 metres, and cops some flak for her height. While that's taller than me (1.78), it's between Frankie Adams at 1.8 and Gwendoline Christie at 1.91. Admittedly, Adams has boxing experience and Christie can swing a sword. You don't want to give them any shit for being tall.

I have a nephew has spent his first 14 years growing up. No meat on his bones, just height. He's self-conscious about it. Sometimes he deliberately slumps. I try not to mention it in his presence. We shouldn't give people shit for their height.

[ApathyMonger]

One of the leads of the upcoming The Craft remake will be trans actress Zoey Luna:

https://deadline.com/2019/09/gideon-adlon-lovie-simone-zoey-luna-cailee-spaeny-the-craft-blumhouse-sony-1202737052/

[starri]

Longform article on the conundrum of Thomas' orientation in Downton Abbey.  They point out that while the world he inhabits is basically accurate to the period, his inner life reflects more of the 21st century view of sexual orientation.

There aren't any movie spoilers that I saw, so I think it's safe to read.

[methodwriter85]

In this interview, Julia Stiles mentioned that her parents were notified by Colombia University that she was getting threats because of her interracial relationship in Save the Last Dance and they wanted to give her a security detail.

I feel like I should be shocked, but I'm really not.

[methodwriter85]

It looks like Netflix's adaption of Let It Snow added in a lesbian storyline...I'm wondering now if the reason why they haven't released names of the characters they're playing save for the bit parts is because they were trying to keep that a surprise.

If you go to the page for it (the movie drops on November 8th) it's listed under the LGBTQ tag so it definitely seems like Odeya Rush and Liv Hewson are playing love interests.

Edited October 17, 2019 by methodwriter85

[Raja]

On 10/6/2019 at 11:42 PM, methodwriter85 said:

In this interview, Julia Stiles mentioned that her parents were notified by Colombia University that she was getting threats because of her interracial relationship in Save the Last Dance and they wanted to give her a security detail.

I feel like I should be shocked, but I'm really not.

Well Save The Last Dance and O were among the first big productions where a black man would be linked sexually to a white woman as the change in the culture was coming. We did have teen TV  characters before they were sexually active start in that direction a bit before but  I do vaguely remember a TV movie with OJ Simpson and Elizabeth Montgomery but we were just a couple of generations removed from her characters committing a crime in many states.

It would be a few years later that I would notice Microsoft using interracial,  especially with black male, couples in their ads while representing Apple with a single obvious race older couple in the same business suit. And a decade after that more cultural change when same sex couples started serving the same role of "we are progressive and our competition is stuck in the past" in commercials 

[Danny Franks]

23 hours ago, Raja said:

Well Save The Last Dance and O were among the first big productions where a black man would be linked sexually to a white woman as the change in the culture was coming. We did have teen TV  characters before they were sexually active start in that direction a bit before but  I do vaguely remember a TV movie with OJ Simpson and Elizabeth Montgomery but we were just a couple of generations removed from her characters committing a crime in many states.

It would be a few years later that I would notice Microsoft using interracial,  especially with black male, couples in their ads while representing Apple with a single obvious race older couple in the same business suit. And a decade after that more cultural change when same sex couples started serving the same role of "we are progressive and our competition is stuck in the past" in commercials 

I remember when the BBC resurrected Doctor Who, and it started to make waves in America, that there were comments about how surprising and progressive it was for Rose to have a black boyfriend (even if Mickey was a bit of a clot). And that surprised me, because I never even thought about it when watching the show.

Even being aware of race relations in the US, and how fraught they are, it's easy to forget that things considered completely normal in the UK can be shocking to our friends across the pond.

Julia Stiles received death threats because she played a part where she had a black love interest? In 2001? How depressing.

[starri]

Kate Mulgrew got death threats when she was cast as Captain Janeway.  And then there was the whole Lady Ghostbusters thing.

[Raja]

1 hour ago, starri said:

Kate Mulgrew got death threats when she was cast as Captain Janeway.  

By who, the Trekker fan base who was disappointed that she demanded to be called "ma'am" instead of "sir"? Or just the Québécoiss after  Geneviève Bujold was replaced? The Trekkies were early adopters of what we now call SJW worldview.

[Lugal]

On 10/18/2019 at 4:33 AM, Danny Franks said:

I remember when the BBC resurrected Doctor Who, and it started to make waves in America, that there were comments about how surprising and progressive it was for Rose to have a black boyfriend (even if Mickey was a bit of a clot). And that surprised me, because I never even thought about it when watching the show.

Most Americans were fine with it, but the story when the Doctor returned Rose a year later and her mother had thought Mickey had killed her, we did acknowledge that part would have played very differently here.

On 10/18/2019 at 5:53 AM, starri said:

Kate Mulgrew got death threats when she was cast as Captain Janeway.

I don't recall that at the time.  Most fans were just annoyed at how the character was written (and even Kate Mulgrew told them they needed to write her as a character and not a woman).

[bmoore4026]

I'm watching the original Nightmare on Elm Street now.  I'm surprised at how brave Nancy is in facing Freddie Kruger multiple times.  Yes, there are times where she screams and runs, but then again who wouldn't from a knife-fingernailed demon.  But she doesn't give up.  She fights back.  She can't depend on her parents or the authorities.  She's scared but not a coward.  She does everything in her power to fight back.  Even when she's calling for her dad and he doesn't come, at least at first, she doesn't give up.  She smashes Freddie with anything she gets her hands on.  I find this inspiring.  She refuses to let herself become a victim.  She saves herself.  At least, I think she does.  Whose dream was it really?

The subtext about sexual awakening is an interesting one.  The most blatant example is when Nancy is in the bathtub and the hand emerges from the water from between her spread legs.  I think Nancy is unsure of herself in terms of wanting to have sex or waiting.  I mean, the fact that three of her friends that become Freddie's victims have had sex or, in Johnny Depp's character's case, have romantic feelings toward Nancy.  Blood being a major catalyst makes me think that Nancy has just started menstruating.  I might be wrong on that last one, though, but it's my interpretation.

I'll be watching Nightmare on Elm Street 2 tomorrow.  I'll let you all know my thoughts on that even though I've already seen a video explaining a major subtext plot point.  I'll discuss it through my interpretation.

[Bastet]

1 hour ago, bmoore4026 said:

I mean, the fact that three of her friends that become Freddie's victims have had sex or, in Johnny Depp's character's case, have romantic feelings toward Nancy.  Blood being a major catalyst makes me think that Nancy has just started menstruating.  I might be wrong on that last one, though, but it's my interpretation.

While not impossible, on average she's a bit too old for menarche to be recent. 

And it's pretty much the biggest tropes of slasher movies that the teens who have sex get killed, while the chaste survive (as an aside, I like how this is addressed in Scream), which of course is quite sexist as most horror villains are men and most main/surviving victims young women.  Wes Craven is known for avoiding nudity in his films, so the bathtub scene is quintessentially him - no gratuitous tit shot to distract, which makes the scene all the better for the vulnerability in Freddy's razor hand emerging from the water.

Edited October 24, 2019 by Bastet

[xaxat]

5 hours ago, bmoore4026 said:

I'm watching the original Nightmare on Elm Street now.  I'm surprised at how brave Nancy is in facing Freddie Kruger multiple times.  Yes, there are times where she screams and runs, but then again who wouldn't from a knife-fingernailed demon.  But she doesn't give up.

The early "Final Girls" were awesome. Ripley from Alien, and Laurie Strode from Halloween, Sarah Connor from the first Terminator. . .  

[bmoore4026]

Well, I've been trying to watch A Nightmare on Elm Street: Freddie's Revenge.  However, I'm finding it hard to get through.  I do think it's daring for the film makers to have the main character be a young man afraid that he's a homosexual, especially a homosexual during the 80s.  But nothing in the movie is really grabbing me.  The scene where Jessie goes to an underground gay bar and encountering the sadistic gym coach was interesting, like Jesse though that's what being gay was all about - sadomasochism and depravity.  Of course, this is what, I think, the general populace of America thought was how homosexuals really were like.

All in all, it didn't like it as much as the first Nightmare movie.  And I thought I would given the subject matter.

Ironically, I got bored watching the movie, so I've been listening to "Falling In Love With Love" as sung by Sierra Boggess on Youtube for several minutes.

[methodwriter85]

I will say this- Robert Rusler was pretty damn hot, 1980's mullet aside.

[starri]

11 hours ago, bmoore4026 said:

Of course, this is what, I think, the general populace of America thought was how homosexuals really were like.

I wish the screenwriters would just give a straight answer about what they were going for.  I believe they've both said that the subtext was unintentional (yeah, I'm calling bullshit on that) and that they figured the most horrifying thing for a teenage boy in 1985 was to think he might be gay.  And the subtext about HIV is unmentioned, but rather unavoidable.

[krankydoodle]

Mark Patton recently made a documentary called Scream, Queen! My Nightmare on Elm Street about his experience making Freddie's Revenge and the movie's impact. He's currently touring around the country with it. Not near me, unfortunately, so I hope it becomes available to stream soon.

[bmoore4026]

5 hours ago, krankydoodle said:

Mark Patton recently made a documentary called Scream, Queen! My Nightmare on Elm Street about his experience making Freddie's Revenge and the movie's impact. He's currently touring around the country with it. Not near me, unfortunately, so I hope it becomes available to stream soon.

I've been wanting to see some similar documentaries, only these focus on the women that have appeared slasher films and the impact it's had on their lives.  One is Screaming in High Heels: The Rise & Fall of the Scream Queen Era, another is called Something to Scream About, and the last is Sleepless Nights: Revisiting the Slumber Party Massacres, all of which were directed by Jason Paul Collum, a gay man who grew up on these films and had a huge affect on him.  He directs his own films that are homages to the old slashers, albeit with a gay slant and has some of the women who appeared in the 80s slashers popping up along with Judith O'Dea, the original scream queen, from Night of the Living Dead.

[methodwriter85]

I'm kind of disappointed that Hellbent didn't lead to an array of explicitly gay horror slashers. The DeCoteau stuff is pretty hilarious, though.

[starri]

6 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

I'm kind of disappointed that Hellbent didn't lead to an array of explicitly gay horror slashers. The DeCoteau stuff is pretty hilarious, though.

I'd be more interested in the DeCoteau stuff it was more explicitly gay, instead of just a bunch of well-built twenty-somethings wandering around the same house in their underpants.

Although there was one of them where the particular dude just went around and around calling out "Hello?   Hello?" as the only dialog.

[AimingforYoko]

Sigh.

It's 2019, people. 2019!

[Annber03]

Quote

“Look, we’re having a conversation about Phoebe’s gender here, which is fucking ridiculous,” Craig said. “She’s a great writer. Why shouldn’t we get Phoebe onto Bond?”

'Nuff said. 

[AimingforYoko]

42 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Why shouldn’t we get Phoebe onto Bond?”

Why am I picturing Phoebe looking directly into the camera when he said that?

[Anduin]

Trivia: Wikipedia says that Johanna Harwood worked on the first three Bond movies, including everyone's favourite, Goldfinger. However, Phoebe Waller-Bridge is the first woman since then. Barbara Broccoli has been on the Bond movies since The Spy Who Loved Me, in 1977. She moved up to XP in 1995, on Goldeneye.

While I'm not familiar with Waller-Bridge's other work, I'm looking forward to No Time To Die.

[xaxat]

Good for Craig to shut that shit down. They are definitely going to get my dollar.

I want to see this. Reel Injun Looks at 100 Years of Native Americans in Film

[Bastet]

7 minutes ago, xaxat said:

I want to see this. Reel Injun Looks at 100 Years of Native Americans in Film

It's really good.  It was available on Netflix for quite some time, but hasn't been for awhile now as far as I know.

[Bastet]

Well, this is a coincidence:  Reel Injun is airing right now on one of my local PBS stations.  It's only the ninth anniversary of its American television premiere via Independent Lens, but it's the tenth anniversary of the film's initial release, so maybe it will also turn up on other PBS stations?  Just a possibility to keep an eye on for those who are interested.    

[Irlandesa]

So this is fun. 

Quote

“I was told how one studio head said in a meeting, ‘This script is fantastic. Let’s get Julia Roberts to play Harriet Tubman,'” Allen explained. “When someone pointed out that Roberts couldn’t be Harriet, the executive responded, ‘It was so long ago. No one is going to know the difference.'”

And I'm irritated they say something like "1994 was a different time."  Oh how I wish but someone idiotic to make this suggestion is idiotic enough to make this suggestion in 2019.