Gimme That Old Time Religion

[Churchhoney]

IBLP also lost some "accreditation" from an evangelical group over unspecified "governance" issues back in March, it seems. Guess the mighty board of Gil, Doc Paine, et al, didn't look so good to somebody....http://www.christianitytoday.com/gleanings/2016/march/bill-gothard-iblp-loses-ecfa-accreditation-governance.html

'The Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability (ECFA) terminated the membership of the Institute in Basic Life Principles (IBLP) last Friday, citing “failure to comply” with its governance standard.

'ECFA requires member organizations to have a board of at least five people (mostly independents) that pray, chart long-range strategy, and identify potential conflicts of interest, among examples of other duties.

'“When a ministry encounters failure—or even worse, scandal—its difficulties can almost always be traced to a breakdown in governance,” states ECFA’s explanation of Standard 2. “For this reason, ECFA places much emphasis on strong, effective governance.”

'ECFA declined to specify to CT how IBLP failed to meet its governance standard. IBLP did not respond to CT’s request for comment by press time.'

And, in related good news, they really are bleeding money, apparently: "The institute, which has drawn more than 2.5 million people to its seminars, is struggling financially. Over the past 4 years, IBLP ran a deficit of $15.8 million. Last year, it lost $4.6 million."

[Arwen Evenstar]

IBLP is circling the drain, Wholesome Wear is going out of business...what's a Fundy to do? 

[Churchhoney]

2 minutes ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

IBLP is circling the drain, Wholesome Wear is going out of business...what's a Fundy to do? 

Rejoice ... if they only realized it!

Edited May 25, 2016 by Churchhoney
WHAT do I do that makes the last word or two drop off of every post when it posts???!!!

[Aja]

1 hour ago, Churchhoney said:

'...On May 20, 2016, Judge Kenneth L. Popejoy disqualified Gibbs III from the Bill Gothard sex abuse case, Gretchen Wilkinson v. IBLP. Gothard and IBLP had filed motions the previous February claiming that Gibbs was “playing both sides of the street” in the case. One of the motions contained an affidavit from Roger Blair, who was present when Gibbs first approached Gothard to talk about the abuse allegations. Blair alleged that Gibbs III offered to help Gothard derail the allegations against him. Blair testified that, “Mr. Gibbs spoke as if he were connected to the individuals behind Recovering Grace and had inside knowledge that would be valuable to Bill. I recall Mr. Gibbs saying, ‘I know how to handle it.’ He stated that Bill ‘was wronged’ and that it was unfair that ‘people are trying to destroy your ministry as well as other ministries.’ Mr. Gibbs stated that he read allegations on the Recovering Grace website and he knew that they were false. He said that he knew how to adequately respond to ‘get rid of it.’”[lxxxvii]'

These people are like evil cartoons. I've said it before, and I'll say it again...how the hell does this cult still legally exist?

[riverblue22]

I was raised in a mainstream Protestant "social justice" church and this fundie slant on Christianity really confuses me.  Do they spend any time talking about Jesus?  Do they read the Gospels or do they spend their time and memorization skills on books like Timothy?  Cuz I just don't see Jesus thinking it would be cool to whip children with a rod, even one with a "cushioned vinyl grip" as discussed in the schoolin' and child rearin' thread. I don't think these values would please Jesus and I don't know how you get from the Jesus in the Bible to the wrathful God that Ben rants on about.

[Aja]

16 minutes ago, riverblue22 said:

I was raised in a mainstream Protestant "social justice" church and this fundie slant on Christianity really confuses me.  Do they spend any time talking about Jesus?  Do they read the Gospels or do they spend their time and memorization skills on books like Timothy?  Cuz I just don't see Jesus thinking it would be cool to whip children with a rod, even one with a "cushioned vinyl grip" as discussed in the schoolin' and child rearin' thread. I don't think these values would please Jesus and I don't know how you get from the Jesus in the Bible to the wrathful God that Ben rants on about.

It has always befuddled me too. I was raised very religiously and I do not recall ever once being told that it was remotely acceptable to go around condemning others to hell and asserting my spiritual superiority over every living thing. Basically, extreme fundamentalism appears to me to simply be an outlet for controlling, narcissistic people who need to abuse others to feel superior, and that invoking the name of Jesus in this country automatically 100% justifies everything including the physical and sexual abuse of their own children. Less savvy people go to jail for these crimes every single day because they don't have a church to hide behind. Finding actual doctrine-based justification for their behaviors is impossible. Nearly everything that they do and stand for goes directly against everything Jesus Christ taught and, if there is a Christian hell, they're headed straight for it.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Aja

[MargeGunderson]

3 hours ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

IBLP is circling the drain, Wholesome Wear is going out of business...

My, Satan has been busy!

[Arwen Evenstar]

2 hours ago, MargeGunderson said:

My, Satan has been busy!

Looks like he's had plenty of fortresses to build inside IBLP and other Fundy groups. Plenty of low hanging fruit there.

[Sew Sumi]

6 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

IBLP also lost some "accreditation" from an evangelical group over unspecified "governance" issues back in March, it seems. Guess the mighty board of Gil, Doc Paine, et al, didn't look so good to somebody....http://www.christianitytoday.com/gleanings/2016/march/bill-gothard-iblp-loses-ecfa-accreditation-governance.html

'The Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability (ECFA) terminated the membership of the Institute in Basic Life Principles (IBLP) last Friday, citing “failure to comply” with its governance standard.

'ECFA requires member organizations to have a board of at least five people (mostly independents) that pray, chart long-range strategy, and identify potential conflicts of interest, among examples of other duties.

'“When a ministry encounters failure—or even worse, scandal—its difficulties can almost always be traced to a breakdown in governance,” states ECFA’s explanation of Standard 2. “For this reason, ECFA places much emphasis on strong, effective governance.”

'ECFA declined to specify to CT how IBLP failed to meet its governance standard. IBLP did not respond to CT’s request for comment by press time.'

And, in related good news, they really are bleeding money, apparently: "The institute, which has drawn more than 2.5 million people to its seminars, is struggling financially. Over the past 4 years, IBLP ran a deficit of $15.8 million. Last year, it lost $4.6 million."

No wonder everyone save Bates, Paine,.and one other have fled the BoD of IBLP. Even without Gothard as its figurehead, what kind of idiot wants to be associated, even by proxy? Davey Waller was Gothard's personal assistant. He probably knew everything, yet he stayed and is now the director of ATI. 

As for Gibbs III, I really believed that he had changed. As I said before, I hope the  Illinois state bar calls him to the carpet and disbars his lying, deceitful ass and that he never works again again.

[maraleia]

6 hours ago, riverblue22 said:

I was raised in a mainstream Protestant "social justice" church and this fundie slant on Christianity really confuses me.  Do they spend any time talking about Jesus?  Do they read the Gospels or do they spend their time and memorization skills on books like Timothy?  Cuz I just don't see Jesus thinking it would be cool to whip children with a rod, even one with a "cushioned vinyl grip" as discussed in the schoolin' and child rearin' thread. I don't think these values would please Jesus and I don't know how you get from the Jesus in the Bible to the wrathful God that Ben rants on about.

No instead they craft anti-LGBT bills and encourage religious conservative politicians to file lawsuits like this https://www.buzzfeed.com/dominicholden/states-sue-transgender-students?utm_term=.ahoBeedjP#.pw33DDmd8

[Marigold]

http://www.baptistpillar.com/articles_page.html

If you guys want to go down a rabbit hole of the whys of the Duggars and some of the similar churches etc. 

So many people post questions and being an ex Ind Fund Baptist, I would really like to answer them but that's extensive posting and I just can't.   It's a topic list. Enjoy.;)  

[GeeGolly]

On 5/24/2016 at 8:01 AM, Churchhoney said:

Hard to tell at this point. But it always did seem quite odd that this guy was the lawyer chosen, since his FATHER is a very well known attorney-champion of Gothard types in sexual-misconduct and other situations and was involved with the Gothard board in their supposed "investigation" of the Gothard sexual-abuse allegations. Read this piece about the lawyer's father to get a feel for how very odd it was that this lawyer would be the lawyer you'd pick to go after Gothard. http://heresyintheheartland.blogspot.com/2014/03/david-gibbs-jr-investigating-gothard.html

Here are a few choice facts about the lawyer's father:   'Gibbs, whose Christian Law Association has been described as "the Fixers for fundamentalism"'    

'Gibbs' firm was also general counsel for Accelerated Christian Education (a.k.a. School of Tomorrow) for over 20 years. According to Johnny Scaramanga at Leaving Fundamentalism, Gibbs served as president of A.C.E. after founder Donald Howard was forced out by scandal. (A.C.E. was the curriculum used at IBLP's Indianapolis Training Center to "homeschool" minors in their care.)'

'David Gibbs, Jr. is also the attorney for First Baptist Church in Hammond, Indiana. When their pastor Jack Schaap confessed to an illicit relationship with a minor from his church in July 2012,'

'Now it seems the IBLP board is counting on David Gibbs, Jr. to conduct an "investigation" into the allegations against Bill Gothard.'

If I were trying to fight Gothard, I would not have hired this guy's son and namesake as my lead attorney. But I suppose it may just demonstrate how incestuous and myopic this whole "community" is that that's who they ended up with. It's all very weird, in any case.

It's the lead plaintiff who's posted over on Homeschoolers Anonymous. And here's what somebody wrote in response, recommending lawyers who may not have Gothard-loving first-degree relatives:   Gretchen, many, many people are hoping that you get justice. Adam Horowitz has represented victims of Fundamental Baptist pastors and has experience with the IFB culture, almost identical to the Gothard culture. He specializes in clergy sex abuse cases in all denominations. The law firm that represented the victims of Russell Hirner (Longview Baptist Temple, Longview TX) pulled out a win for their clients in civil court. The lawyer’s name was Stewart Smith, I believe. I don’t recall his law firm. I can find it again for you if you want it. It’s hard to believe that the Gibbs clan didn’t engineer this on purpose.   https://homeschoolersanonymous.org/2016/05/23/lead-attorney-for-plaintiffs-disqualified-from-bill-gothard-sex-abuse-case/

Holy unethical shittiness.

[Arwen Evenstar]

3 hours ago, Marigold said:

http://www.baptistpillar.com/articles_page.html

If you guys want to go down a rabbit hole of the whys of the Duggars and some of the similar churches etc. 

So many people post questions and being an ex Ind Fund Baptist, I would really like to answer them but that's extensive posting and I just can't.   It's a topic list. Enjoy.;)  

Made my head spin just looking at that list....I guess it's other title would be: Everything you wanted to know about being a Fundamentalist Baptist but were afraid to ask. Thanks for sharing.

[Churchhoney]

5 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

 

As for Gibbs III, I really believed that he had changed. As I said before, I hope the  Illinois state bar calls him to the carpet and disbars his lying, deceitful ass and that he never works again again.

I hoped he had, and I think most people thought or at least hoped he had. In fact, it wouldn't really surprise me if he thought he had changed and that a lot of the lying he's done has been to himself -- that he actually does think that he's a champion of the abused now. He's either a deliberately lying rotten jerk who engaged in a conspiracy against these women or he's a hopelessly blind self-deluded dumb-ass who has no clue about the extent of his own biases. At the very least, people who are victims of churchie types' abuse should now see that they shouldn't hire him as their lawyer, even if he doesn't get disbarred.

[Arwen Evenstar]

No doubt he'd be bleating about his religious free-dumb being affronted if anyone tried to challenge him.

[kalamac]

Putting this here, for people who haven't seen it, because many of us have speculated that Bin wants his own television ministry, and wondered about the legitimacy of Jim Bob's home church.

John Oliver looks at televangelists who scam money from people in the name of God, and toward the end of the video, just how easy it is to become a tax-exempt church in America, with amazing low oversight from the IRS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y1xJAVZxXg

[frenchtoast]

In light of a recent request for a new topic, we felt we needed to clarify and elaborate about posting, so please read this most recent Announcement.

[Minivanessa]

Over in the Seewalds topic, 

51 minutes ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

I think it will be odd/interesting/entertaining if this ever-growing squadron of preachin' SILs are spewing different versions of whatever their so-called religions are. I doubt we will get consistent messaging from each as an individual, let alone with each other. Will the Littlest Duggars pay attention and become confused? Will they begin to realize that differing, if still weird, belief systems exist and are being tacitly condoned, since these boy preachers have been allowed into the family? Do I need some coffee so I can start making sense about this? 

Having read a bit about this area of fundie/evangelical Christianity, I think all those guys agree on the, well, fundamentals. Including but not limited to these:

• Men are large and in charge of the church and family life.
• Women are to be ever-available as sweet and willing helpmeets in every way (wink, wink, nudge, nudge) including but not limited to making sandwiches, birthing lots of babies, and looking good at all times. (Jinger and Jessa have that last bit down with all the makeup, while Jill's definitely a lost cause who will need to be Firmly Taken In Hand when the Dullards return from Danger America).
• Children are to be firmly trained from their first weeks of life.
• Nobody will ever ever be gay or lesbian or confused about their gender and if they are, Satan will be prayed out of them. Or otherwise removed from their hearts.

Derelict may not be 100% on board with all of that - he seems OK with Jill looking free of makeup and hairspray, and much too proud of her "educational" and "career" achievements. But he's such a beta male, that I'm sure he'll soon have his attitudes adjusted (by Boob) and be just one more member of the big happy family. Bin of course is already a happy Calvinist fundie hell-fire and damnation guy. 

[MunichNark]

There's a rather delightful delicious oxymoronish irony in that sentence "is already a happy Calvinist..........".........muahahaahahahha

[Jynnan tonnix]

48 minutes ago, MunichNark said:

There's a rather delightful delicious oxymoronish irony in that sentence "is already a happy Calvinist..........".........muahahaahahahha

I'd give you a "like" for each individual word in that sentence if I could :)

[Minivanessa]

3 hours ago, MunichNark said:

There's a rather delightful delicious oxymoronish irony in that sentence "is already a happy Calvinist..........".........muahahaahahahha

Thanks. I'm glad you appreciated it. Heh heh heh.

[Sew Sumi]

3 hours ago, MunichNark said:

There's a rather delightful delicious oxymoronish irony in that sentence "is already a happy Calvinist..........".........muahahaahahahha

Earth calling Ben! His Calvinism shows with every depressing post/video he makes. 

[Tabbygirl521]

Ugh. My poor spouse was raised in an ultra-Calvinist church and he ran for the hills when he turned 18. He is 60 now, and still struggles with the emotional baggage. And he can hardly bear to sit through even the most uplifting sermon at a loving and inclusive church; it's still a trigger. 

TLC can try all they want to portray Duggarism as a happy and healthy lifestyle. I have hoped over the years that some kid or other would break loose. Maybe they will. But it seems they keep doubling down on the soul-killing by adding one more sour son-in-law. Derrick seems fairly happy but Ben and Jeremy make me feel exhausted with their fixation on "sin." Imagine having all the joy and spontaneity beaten out of you by that age. 

[galax-arena]

Not sure if someone has posted this article yet, but Chicago Mag recently published a long write-up of the Gothard/IBLP scandal: The Cult Next Door. Haven't read it yet, and I doubt there will be anything in there that surprises people who have kept up with this forum or Gothard news, but definitely pleased to see this getting more attention. 

[louannems]

Maybe you guys have already seen this video, but I just watched it. It's all about physical, sexual, and spiritual abuse in the IFB church.  And how they cover it all up.

[Arwen Evenstar]

On June 21, 2016 at 1:43 PM, Tabbygirl521 said:

Ugh. My poor spouse was raised in an ultra-Calvinist church and he ran for the hills when he turned 18. He is 60 now, and still struggles with the emotional baggage. And he can hardly bear to sit through even the most uplifting sermon at a loving and inclusive church; it's still a trigger. 

TLC can try all they want to portray Duggarism as a happy and healthy lifestyle. I have hoped over the years that some kid or other would break loose. Maybe they will. But it seems they keep doubling down on the soul-killing by adding one more sour son-in-law. Derrick seems fairly happy but Ben and Jeremy make me feel exhausted with their fixation on "sin." Imagine having all the joy and spontaneity beaten out of you by that age. 

Boob is getting a bit long in the tooth to be able to keep up with the disciplining of that long string of Howler Monkeys, he's no doubt using Bin and Jeremy to preach against Howler behavior and "their sinful nature" and drum the Duggar version of religion into them. After all the more people they hear the same message from, it's more likely to become their truth.

Edited June 24, 2016 by Arwen Evenstar

[Sew Sumi]

All this anti-sexualization blather probably makes it even worse for these boys. The Howlers are probably 10 times more horny than Smuggar ever was. They just can't get away with it now because Kim Jong Boob has really turned the screws on what is normal behavior. Behavior he certainly indulged in himself even before he met the hot cheerleader. 

[GeeGolly]

I didn't watch the video. Is masturbation mentioned in the Bible? What explanation does Jeremy give as to why it's wrong?

[NewDigs]

27 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I didn't watch the video. Is masturbation mentioned in the Bible? What explanation does Jeremy give as to why it's wrong?

If it is I bet it's in Leviticus.

What a subject to pontificate on. Is that a "normal" fundy sermom?

Glad I'm not in that congregation.

[Sew Sumi]

I made it about 15 minutes in. There was talk about porn, then all of the biblical hussies. Jeremy spent the most time on Jezebel and how stupid Samson was to give Deliliah the secret to his power. I didn't make it to any talk of spanking the monkey, thank goodness. I was more taken aback that the howlers down to Jackson were all there. Isn't this topic a bit risque for a sheltered 12 year old? Yet, these people don't want sex ed in public schools. Hypocrites. 

[kassygreene]

54 minutes ago, NewDigs said:

If it is I bet it's in Leviticus.

What a subject to pontificate on. Is that a "normal" fundy sermom?

Glad I'm not in that congregation.

It's in Genesis Chapter 38 - Onan.

[NewDigs]

6 minutes ago, kassygreene said:

It's in Genesis Chapter 38 - Onan.

Holy Crap.

"New International Version
But Onan knew that the child would not be his; so whenever he slept with his brother's wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from providing offspring for his brother."
 

Judge not lest...

[Arwen Evenstar]

31 minutes ago, NewDigs said:

Holy Crap.

"New International Version
But Onan knew that the child would not be his; so whenever he slept with his brother's wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from providing offspring for his brother."
 

Judge not lest...

So doesn't that imply he pulled out and released it on the ground? Or did he finish himself off?

[Jynnan tonnix]

Somehow, just that is supposed to imply that any waste of seed is sinful.

[Arwen Evenstar]

5 minutes ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

Somehow, just that is supposed to imply that any waste of seed is sinful.

Sorry  couldn't resist:

[Absolom]

Trust fundies to skip the big sin and twist the verse to something else.  Onan was supposed to provide sons as heirs to his brother.

[kokapetl]

The bible is all about "spilled seed on the ground", so just don't let the cum hit the floor, use a sock. The carpet will be cleaner too. 

I bet there's an unofficial don't ask, don't tell arrangement in the boys dorm when the bunk beds suddenly start shaking.

When I was 13, I could do it in under 10 strokes. 

[GeeGolly]

They do know that men pretty much come with a life time supply of "seeds" right? 

Women release a lot of eggs that never get fertilized, and men ejaculate a lot of sperm that never fertilize an egg. And they continue to have sex after menopause.

So it is okay to spill or waste seed as long as the spillage occurs in a woman? 

[Churchhoney]

13 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I didn't watch the video. Is masturbation mentioned in the Bible? What explanation does Jeremy give as to why it's wrong?

I only watched a few seconds so I don't know what he uses. But most people use the story in Genesis about Onan -- a guy whose father told him to conceive children with his dead brother's widow, with whom he'd become a couple as was, I guess, a custom.

If he had, those kids would have been his father's heirs. But he apparently pulled out a lot instead, so they had no children, and that left him being his father's heir. God cursed Onan for his behavior, and that's been interpreted by many over the years to mean that God frowns on "spilling seed." (Personally, seems more likely to me that God wanted him to obey his father or to not be a greedy jerk about the inheritance, but, hey, I'm not a sex-obsessed Christian, so what do I know?)    Anyway, quite a long time ago, I believe, the word "onanism" came to be used mainly for masturbation rather than for its original deliberate seed-spilling reference, which was to coitus interruptus. And God curses it!

ETA: Okay, day late, dollar short. ..........I'm kind of amazed that everybody has the same explanation here. Such a fuss has long been made about masturbation, you'd think that there'd be dozens of texts condemning it explicitly, rather than one text that doesn't even condemn it at all -- and may not even condemn its cousin, CI. Some people are really really really spooked by anything that shows we have a physical nature and might enjoy that, aren't they?

Edited June 25, 2016 by Churchhoney

[Arwen Evenstar]

In some countries, masturbation is a grave offense.  I think it's even a capital offense in a few countries. Some churches DO regard it as a sin. This isn't something to be done in public, of course, so I wonder how they catch / police these offenders.

For couples in menopause/andropause, it's often encouraged by medical professionals and therapists to keep tissue from drying out and keeping erectile function in working order. My OBGYN has an ad for such an aid in his exam room.  The medical profession has recognized that a healthy sex life  is important to personal well being, but then since when do the Duggars care about such things? After all, their Wisdumb Booklets tell them everything they need to know. 

[GeeGolly]

If the Bible was compiled and written in modern times, an editor would have a hard time making sure all the stories were as ambiguous as they appear now.

[Portia]

Thirty-plus years ago I sat in on a couple of  sessions when the Gothard folks were doing a series of lectures at my then-fiance's Christian college. They said that it's a grievous sin any time the sexual urge is fulfilled in an unrighteous way, and masturbation definitely falls into the unrighteous category. I was a super-conservative evangelical back then, but I still knew in my heart that that teaching was messed up. 

Edited June 26, 2016 by Portia
Typo

[awaken]

Thanks so much for these posts- I just read the whole Chicago Mag article, and watched the 20/20 video and found them fascinatingly horrifying.  I plan to read the Elizabeth Esther book, and I Fired God.  I grew up in a sect (now wondering if it was a cult?) very similar to IFB.  These discussions have been so illuminating for me!  I remember vividly girls standing before the church confessing their sexual sins with weeping fathers standing nearby.  Girls who got pregnant did not come back to school (school in church basement, taught by pastors' wives, and Bob Jones U grads).  Someone gave me the Pearls book at my first baby shower, and many endorsed it enthusiastically as an indispensible parenting tool!  Lots of girls were thrilled when Josh Harris's book came out and Biblical courting was all the rage.  It's virtually impossible to see past it or anything wrong with it, when you're in it, and it's all you know.  I am not in close touch with anyone I knew from those days, but I'd be incredibly curious to know what they think of Mr. Gothard now!  (He's probably just forgiven.)

't read it yet, and I doubt there will be anything in there that surprises people who have kept up with this forum or Gothard news, but definitely pleased to see this getting more attention. 

On 6/21/2016 at 3:08 PM, galax-arena said:

 

On 5/12/2016 at 10:16 PM, louannems said:

Just wow!  And isn't Elizabeth Esther the author of a book I read: Girl At The End Of The World? Such a good book on growing up in a Fundamental cult, then leaving.

On 6/23/2016 at 8:22 PM, louannems said:

 

Maybe you guys have already seen this video, but I just watched it. It's all about physical, sexual, and spiritual abuse in the IFB church.  And how they cover it all up.

[sometimesy]

The 20/20 video says the young girl who was raped and became pregnant was hidden away, gave birth and the baby was given to a fundie family. Is this where Bin and Jessa will get their 'adoption season' prop? 

[Sew Sumi]

@awaken Have you heard that Josh Harris recently expressed extreme regret for writing "I Kissed Dating Goodbye?" He left his pastorship, not sure where he is now (this is all fairly recent), but this is HUGE! I always wondered if the Duggars and Harrises crossed paths somewhere. The latter believed in real college; the twins went to Patrick Henry, and one ended up at Harvard Law. But I could see the Duggars sitting all of their teens down with that horrible book. I can vouch for that; it's on my Fundie Book Shelf as I type. 

[tabloidlover]

I haven't heard of that book.  I definitely am not going to read it, so would you be so kind as to give me an idea as to what it's about?

[awaken]

12 hours ago, sometimesy said:

The 20/20 video says the young girl who was raped and became pregnant was hidden away, gave birth and the baby was given to a fundie family. Is this where Bin and Jessa will get their 'adoption season' prop? 

I am sure!

12 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

@awaken Have you heard that Josh Harris recently expressed extreme regret for writing "I Kissed Dating Goodbye?" He left his pastorship, not sure where he is now (this is all fairly recent), but this is HUGE! I always wondered if the Duggars and Harrises crossed paths somewhere. The latter believed in real college; the twins went to Patrick Henry, and one ended up at Harvard Law. But I could see the Duggars sitting all of their teens down with that horrible book. I can vouch for that; it's on my Fundie Book Shelf as I type. 

I think I saw an article about JH recanting his courting endorsement a ways up this thread. Was going to read that. Yeah, I really wonder what people who follow his book as gospel think now that he's changed his mind. 

[Sew Sumi]

Basically, the Duggar "dating" rules. But this guy actually dated some before deciding (or Dad telling him) that he had to go the purity route. So, nothing new, but it was a sensation in the conservative Christian teen world for years. 

[Tabbygirl521]

8 minutes ago, awaken said:

I am sure!

I think I saw an article about JH recanting his courting endorsement a ways up this thread. Was going to read that. Yeah, I really wonder what people who follow his book as gospel think now that he's changed his mind. 

They probably think that Satan got his hooks in. 

On June 23, 2016 at 5:32 PM, Arwen Evenstar said:

Boob is getting a bit long in the tooth to be able to keep up with the disciplining of that long string of Howler Monkeys, he's no doubt using Bin and Jeremy to preach against Howler behavior and "their sinful nature" and drum the Duggar version of religion into them. After all the more people they hear the same message from, it's more likely to become their truth.

Ya know, if they gave those kids something to DO, maybe that would help sublimate their urges a bit. These people seem completely obsessed with sex. 

[galax-arena]

Quote

Have you heard that Josh Harris recently expressed extreme regret for writing "I Kissed Dating Goodbye?"

I saw his tweets and to me it was unclear whether he had completely changed his views and regretted writing the book itself, or simply regretted that so many Christians had taken it to the extreme. IIRC, someone tweeted at him that due to his writing, her school decided to not have prom, and Harris said sorry about that. Someone else tweeted that his book had been used against her as a weapon and he apologized for that too and said that he was planning to delve more into that later. Haven't really heard anything else beyond that, though. 

Edited June 26, 2016 by galax-arena