S06.E10: START

[SusanSunflower]

I hope someone associated with the production clarifies the intent of the Erica / art / out of control addiction arc .... I hated the details (I won't bore you) but I'd like to know what "deeply meaningful and symbolic" thing they thought that arc represented wrt Elizabeth's story/gestalt/personality ... (seemed sort of bizarre and pointless given Erica's final moments and the meaningless loss of the all-important contact with her husband ... maybe just to me ... that meant that Erica needed to be kept alive and suffering because "The Summit" ... Possible brain-fart on my part admittedly.

Edited May 31, 2018 by SusanSunflower

[Bannon]

40 minutes ago, kikaha said:

Can you point me to any sources that divorce rates for undercover agents?  

I will admit it is anecdotal, but every person I've read of who did that work eventually divorced. If you want to get some insight on the type of personality that does that work, interviews with Joe Pistone, the real life agent basis for the movie Donnie Brasco are available.

I think Stan's character was either poorly researched, or the research was ignored.

7 minutes ago, showme said:

You lost me. Paige was not on that mission, remember?

Yes, but the headless and handless corpse and Paige used the same KGB cars in Washington D.C.. They are going to be linked.

Edited May 31, 2018 by Bannon

[Cthulhudrew]

The burning question is: Will Phillip be reunited with Mischa now that he's back in Russia? Because something needs to justify that entire go-nowhere subplot from last season.

[atlantaloves]

Well, I really liked it but how about the theory that Page came back to D.C. to the safe house to figure out a way to still be a super Russian spy? No? I'm just fishing around here, I hate her so, but still wonder what in the hell that was all about.  

[Umbelina]

3 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

The burning question is: Will Phillip be reunited with Mischa now that he's back in Russia? Because something needs to justify that entire go-nowhere subplot from last season.

I'd say that is almost a definite.  Hopefully Gabe's still alive, because that would make finding Misha much easier.

[tpplay]

I've been saying the entire season I was looking forward to P and E dying because they should get what they deserve.  Well.  They did get what they deserve.  They lost their children.  The scene in the garage was stunning and moving.  I don't think Stan betrayed his country - they're gone.  There are lots of other people to round up.  My only disappointment was that Oleg, such a beautifully imagined and played character, didn't show up in this finale.

I'd say it's a stretch to think P and E are going to live "happily" ever after.

[SusanSunflower]

My impressions of Stan, just released from high-intensity undercover work as a single-man bad-ass, quite reluctant to put on the harness of husband and father, got completely lost quickly, and I felt he was living large on a rapidly fading reputation in a desk-job (counter intelligence may be sexy but I never thought Gaad liked or trusted Stan much due to his inflated self-regard).  Gaad valued team work and painstaking attention to details ... And then after Martha went to Russia (and a series of potentially career-ending bad decisions by Stan) he seemed to fade into the background in favor of Paige as mini-me and Afternoons with Claudia ... (I think the writing has been great in close up and incoherent wrt larger themes and continuity) 

Edited May 31, 2018 by SusanSunflower

[showme]

5 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

The burning question is: Will Phillip be reunited with Mischa now that he's back in Russia? Because something needs to justify that entire go-nowhere subplot from last season.

Since they decided that this is the series finale. I wish they could do a 2 hour feature movie to tie up all the loose ends and give us a sneak peak of everyone's life after the finale.

[anonymiss]

2 hours ago, Dev F said:

Correct me if I'm wrong -- after Elizabeth muses that she could've managed a factory, doesn't she say something to Philip like "You might have m--" and then stops herself? I wondered if she was going to ponder whether Philip might've married Irina, but realized she didn't want to go there.

 

That makes perfect sense, especially when she tries to recover with something like, "Maybe we would have met...like on a train...."

Some residual regrets about what happened to Nina may have factored into Stan making the decision to put his gun down.

The priest interrogation scene dragged on too long. Also, was there a mistake in the photograph? Why was Philip photographed in disguise with his eyes obscured by dark sunglasses? As far as I recall, he was wearing spectacles, as he always has in that particular (non)disguise.

I didn't hate it nor could I love it because it was so simple. I can appreciate that they stayed true to the restrained quietness that is this show but there always was enough of a long-game payoff. I didn't get it this time--the time that it matters most. 

Edited May 31, 2018 by anonymiss

[SusanSunflower]

Was Gabriel even mentioned in the finale?  He really deserved -- in unavailable for a cameo -- a call-out as an integral player over the last 6 years of P&E's life and evolution ... like Clauda, for good and for bad ... 

[jjj]

21 minutes ago, showme said:

You lost me. Paige was not on that mission, remember?

but Marilyn's hair is in other cars in DC, along with Paige's.  DNA (new, but being used in 1987) would connect them.  I don't think that is enough to send Paige to jail, though.  A good lawyer could suggest other ways her hair got there, especially if Elizabeth's hair is in the cars as well.  There are going to be a lot of abandoned cars in DC now that the KGB has gone poof, for now.

[tinderbox]

I enjoyed the finale.  

I thought the garage scene was outstanding but cried my eyes out during their final telephone conversation with Henry. That scene was very meaningful to me.   I put myself in their shoes and imagined how I'd feel in that situation.  Heartbreaking!  I also welled up when each of them noticed Paige had left the train and the consequences of her decision.  So sad.

I absolutely believe Stan's wife is a Russian spy and I think Stan does, too.  Wish we could have seen that storyline play out in some way.

[Bannon]

6 minutes ago, jjj said:

but Marilyn's hair is in other cars in DC, along with Paige's.  DNA (new, but being used in 1987) would connect them.  I don't think that is enough to send Paige to jail, though.  A good lawyer could suggest other ways her hair got there, especially if Elizabeth's hair is in the cars as well.  There are going to be a lot of abandoned cars in DC now that the KGB has gone poof, for now.

On it's own? Not enough. Enough to make Paige's life a living hell, as the FBI place her under a micrscope, forever, as they attempt to prove more connections. They'll bug her home and phone forever. What are the odds she'll never say anything to Henry?

[jjj]

Yes, Stan, we are pretty sure you are right to wonder:

[scrb]

What was it that Stan called Philip?  "Fucking liar" or "fucking piece of shit?"

Because actually, in the end, Philip mind-fucked Stan.

 

And for the mike-drop, he tells Stan "oh, and you're wife's a Soviet spy too."

[Guy]

Fabulous finale.   Perhaps not everything that everyone wanted but dramatic  ... heartfelt ... .  Stan found his humanity.  Henry is left clean.  P and E are together but not unpunished.  Page is alone ... sigh ... but perhaps she deserves it.  Yet she still has a chance. ...  Hey Oleg might even get out of jail eventually.   Beautifully executed.  

[jjj]

3 minutes ago, scrb said:

What was it that Stan called Philip?  "Fucking liar" or "fucking piece of shit?"

Because actually, in the end, Philip mind-fucked Stan.

 

And for the mike-drop, he tells Stan "oh, and you're wife's a Soviet spy too."

"fucking piece of shit"  And yes, Philip mind-fucked Stan.  Shitty to end with telling him his wife "might be one of us".  Because that is not what a "friend" does when departing forever.  Passive aggressive move to put the final nail in Stan's paralysis.   

[GingerMarie]

Loved every minute.  Felt like we got really good closure.  Was not expecting most of the action to happen in the first 30 minutes.  After Elizabeth did not shoot Stan I was waiting for the 'other shoe to drop' in that someone died.  My take away from The Americans. 

Elizabeth is very selfish and if not for Philip she would have never survived.  She needs Philip now more than ever.  I don't doubt she loves her kids but they were just a means to the end. 

Philip is also selfish.  He played on Stan.  Because I have no doubt he would have shot him if Stan would have made the wrong move.  I know he loved Henry and suggested staying but I don't think he would have left Elizabeth. 

Paige is going to be alright.  She made a very tough decision by staying.  I don't think she did it for Henry alone I feel she never truly believed in the 'Cause'. 

Oleg will get out at some point.  His story was very moving. 

Henry is going to have a very hard time adjusting.  I don't think this will be kept  a secret so all his friends and their parents will know that Henry's parent were KGB.  He has a very tough 'row to hoe'. 

Stan is a traitor.  

Side note:  Enjoyed this forum very much.  PEACE

[NicoleMN6]

Damn, Father Andrei. No one was asking you to ID them without their disguises on! Idiot.

Oleg will be fine. They have nothing to hold him on, and his dad is friends with Gorbechev — who didn’t get overthrown. There will be some sort of trade, even if Oleg wasn’t there on official KGB business.

Paige will have to get better at lying REAL fast to fool the FBI, even if Stan covers for her. (Which he’ll have to, to some extent, to not let it be known that he let them escape.)

And the family can reunite in a few years, when the Cold War “ends.” In the meantime, Phillip can finally meet his grown son, and his little brother. Maybe even reconnect with Martha, assuming she’s happy now with a kid and maybe even a man. And they can all be friends with Gabriel.

Edited May 31, 2018 by NicoleMN6

[Cardie]

32 minutes ago, jjj said:

There are going to be a lot of abandoned cars in DC now that the KGB has gone poof, for now.

I would imagine that surveillance cars, in addition to being thoroughly scrubbed after every use, would be swapped out monthly. All that Paige DNA Bannon obsesses over is probably compacted in some salvage lot.

[Umbelina]

They have "espionage" on Oleg, dead to rights.  From everything I've read that the writers, and the actor said?  His future is prison.  (I'm going to fan wank that he is released after the USSR falls, his wife, parents, and kid come and meet him in Tahiti, and they all live happily ever after.)

For those that care about the Mail Robot? Sepinwall's final review for UpRox, he's moving the the Rolling Stone!

Quote

* Though Mail Robot’s true curtain call was that hilarious moment a few weeks ago where it crowded Stan and Aderholt into opposite corners of the elevator, it does have a brief, motionless cameo, resting in the hall outside Aderholt’s offices when Stan comes back to work to be shown the Father Andrei sketches. The circumstances of the finale were too grave for a full Mail Robot appearance, but having it in the background for those paying attention felt fitting for the show’s greatest prop.

Quote

* I will say that leaving a potential reunion with Mischa to our imaginations only increases my frustration with his season five arc. Better to have only shown him briefly than to spend so much time with him and never dramatize the moment he finally meets his father.

Seriously!  I get why we didn't get to see Misha in this episode, but that's my biggest quibble as well with last season.

Just now, Cardie said:

I would imagine that surveillance cars, in addition to being thoroughly scrubbed after every use, would be swapped out monthly. All that Paige DNA Bannon obsesses over is probably compacted in some salvage lot.

Agree.

[Bannon]

I would have been fine with any outcome, as long as it was written well. What I was really hoping wouldn't happen was the writers making characters dumb, so they could have the scenes they wanted. Well, Stan, Phil, and Liz were all dumb as posts. I really disliked the dialogue in the garage. Disliked the fact that they had Phil and Liz telling themselves that their kids would be fine. 

I know mine is the minority opinion, but I thought it was poorly written, and saved by Russell and Rhys.

[vixenbynight]

That was a brilliant series finale!!

The parking garage scene between Stan, Philip, Paige and Elizabeth was a nailbiter for me. Both Stan and Philip were absolutely crushed by him revealing the truth about being spies. Paige was just shocked at how things were going. Elizabeth was ready to take Stan down, by any means necessary IF he used that gun against them. 

Poor Henry....he is going to have that last phone call with his family on repeat in his thoughts for the rest of his life. He is going to feel like he had absolutely no clue about them at all. 

[Cardie]

I like the double meaning of the title. Yes, the season-long Summit arc will culminate in the START treaty but nearly every character will have to start their lives over again after the events in this episode.

Although one cannot limit meaning to what the writers say they intended, the Js told Sepinwall that Philip tells Stan his suspicions about Renee, not to eff with him, but out of sincere concern.

[scrb]

3 hours ago, KBrownie said:

That's the most ridiculous part of this entire thing for me.  Why is Stan made to look like a complete and utter fool and end of betraying his country for two people who get off totally scot-free for all the horrific things they did in the name of theirs?   Awful.  If they were really worth it, they would have never left him to do it.  He obviously wasn't worth it to them.  They sure weren't willing to sacrifice shit for him, but he becomes a turncoat.  All for some true love conquers all bullshit.  

I think the point was that he did connect with the family.

Philip talked about how he hated his job, how he at some point stopped believing he was serving his country by doing it.  I think Stan identified with that sentiment, first after his undercover assignments and then the frustration of losing his partner and then Nina and now Oleg.

Stan talked about all the Americans killed by Soviet agents in the Washington DC area but he could have also mentioned his old boss, John Boy.  He forgot to mention his old partner that Philip killed.  Imagine if that got out.

Of course, Stan killed an innocent Russian embassy guy and probably felt shitty about it afterwards.

He hated the spy game and many aspects of his job and during those times, he bonded with the Jennings.  He couldn't tell him what was happening at work but they were there for him most of the time including going to Est.  

So he associated them with the best parts of his life at times when the job wasn't going well.

He was never portrayed as some gung-ho patriot who had some burning hatred of the Soviets.  Obviously the way he connected with Nina and Oleg showed that to be the case.  There were probably FBI and other US intelligence agents who could never see the Soviets as anything other than the enemy.  But Stan saw Oleg as a decent human being so it's plausible that he saw the Jennings as good people too, though of course he doesn't know the extent of their murderous ways.

[Plums]

well I can safely say that I was expecting absolutely none of that. I was not expecting Stan to confront them relatively early on and then just let them go. I was not expecting them to actually make it to Russia and presumably be safe there. What a bleak fucking ending for everyone though. The only thing I ever came close to guessing that came to pass was that they would abandon Henry, but I envisioned that eventuality being very much a ghosting that would not include a final phone call that Henry will clearly understand was a goodbye, in hindsight. And then I moved away from thinking that would happen at all when the preview from last week misdirected about them heading to New Hampshire.

I think it's all believable. Stan can't control how he feels about the Jennings family, no matter what he knows or thinks he knows about them now. He was never going to be able to shoot them, especially not in front of Paige. He loves them, despite knowing they're killers. I think he was also just in shock and reeling from the emotional devastation, and it was an awesome moment when Philip cut the bullshit (not entirely) and got real with him, like, Elizabeth could not believe it. It reminded me of when Martha was losing it and Philip took the Clark disguise off, when continued survival called for a gesture of dangerous emotional honesty and trust. The moment was about the personal betrayal in their relationship, not FBI vs. KGB, which is ultimately more fitting a confrontation in a show about love and family. Philip really did love Stan, and he really did hate himself, and he wanted Stan to know that while also trying to manipulate him into letting them go. It was heartbreaking and really great. It was not at all how I expected a confrontation with them to go down, but it really worked. I was not expecting at all that Stan would just continue on and lie so easily the next day. 

I loved that Paige got off the train. I wasn't expecting it at all, but it was a perfect character moment for her and a perfect ultimate tragic blow for Philip and Elizabeth. I actually can't picture her in Russia at all. And she probably couldn't picture herself there either. She knows her parents are murderers. They unconvincingly denied it when Stan accused them, but she knows. That, combined with all the other dark realities she's been confronted with about the work- she loves them, but she doesn't trust them, and her life is in America. I'm glad she was able to break free and make that choice for herself in the end. Stan can't reveal anything if she's questioned by the FBI, and I think at most she'll admit she found out her parents were spies when she was 16 and kept the secret for 3-4 years, if she even admits that. But I doubt an interrogation would lead even to that. She could just dig into her pre-revelation reality, like she knew there was something off about them, but she never knew what, and that doesn't stretch credulity at all, since Henry obviously doesn't know. No one left in the country knows she worked with her mom, and I don't see the interrogation scenario where she would admit that. I'm happy she stayed for herself and for Henry.  

So Philip and Elizabeth are left alone in a country falling apart that that they don't really remember, and particularly a country Philip doesn't want to live in. Their kids are lost to them (for now), and in a few years, they'll realize all their sacrifice and terrible deeds were for nothing. It's a nightmare scenario for both of them. And they only have each other, and they have to learn how to be married as Russian civilians Mikhail and Nadezhda, but I wonder if they'll be able to do that? It is super tragic. 

I think the Renee ambiguity lasting until the end is the Going to Hell moment. That drives me crazy. That was such a devastating final blow to Stan from Philip, but I'm going to choose to think of it as doing him a solid and take her for a spy. It was "U of I" that did it. 

[duchessdukes]

My take on the ending - and events that would happen later, is this is the start of PERESTROIKA AND GLASNOST - end of cold war and with restructuring and openness of USSR - and in few years, Paige and Henry will be able to travel to Russia to visit ...?  Things really did change in this area back in the '80's ...   I traveled to Russia at that time and the freedom and welcoming of Americans was amazing ... Paige and Henry would have the freedom, but no so much Elizabeth and Philip to travel in reverse, but ...?

[vixenbynight]

4 hours ago, AimingforYoko said:

"I would've worked in a factory." [Pause] "Managed a factory." Never change, Liz.

I was slack-jawed when they drove out of that parking garage. I saw, but I couldn't believe it.

I loved that line and it is correct. Elizabeth would be managing a factory if she had stayed in her home country. 

4 hours ago, RedHawk said:

“It feels strange.”

”You’ll get used to it.”

That’s what they said to each other when we saw a flashback of them in the cheap motel room on their first night in the USA, wasn’t it?

Yes, that was the conversation that the newly married spies had during their first night all those years ago.

4 hours ago, aquarian1 said:

The looks on Eliabeth's and Philip's faces when they saw Paige outside the train.  Such an emotional gut punch.  

The reactions on their faces, is what made me start to cry. I don't think that Philip and Elizabeth ever really prepared themselves of the reality of what they would have to give up or lose if they were found out to be spies. Yes, they had the wigs, cash, clothes and passports, but they couldn't make Henry come with them. Paige wanted to think that she could face a life and future in Russia, but she couldn't do it.

Edited May 31, 2018 by vixenbynight

[Umbelina]

Elizabeth's "managing a factory" line is a direct call back to Paige.  When they watched that movie with Claudia, Paige told her that the actress who was managing the factory reminded her of Elizabeth.

It was actually kind of sweet, because even at that moment, Elizabeth was thinking of Paige.

[MisterBluxom]

I have only two words to describe this final episode.

Poignant and beautiful.

Edited May 31, 2018 by MissBluxom

[scrb]

39 minutes ago, Guy said:

Fabulous finale.   Perhaps not everything that everyone wanted but dramatic  ... heartfelt ... .  Stan found his humanity.  Henry is left clean.  P and E are together but not unpunished.  Page is alone ... sigh ... but perhaps she deserves it.  Yet she still has a chance. ...  Hey Oleg might even get out of jail eventually.   Beautifully executed.  

But Nina is still dead ...

[vixenbynight]

3 hours ago, kay1864 said:

Interesting that Philip picked up on Renée. 

Stan did say he had some money socked away.

Philip and Elizabeth have always had suspicions about Rene.

[Bannon]

23 minutes ago, Cardie said:

I would imagine that surveillance cars, in addition to being thoroughly scrubbed after every use, would be swapped out monthly. All that Paige DNA Bannon obsesses over is probably compacted in some salvage lot.

Swapping out cars that often would be very arduous, as would such a thorough scrubbing. There's a reason why real criminals burn cars when they want to get rid of physical evidence.

Look, if someone wants to think that a fully energized FBI, with Paige Jennings in their sights, could not link her to the KGB, fine. The FBI I observe drives innocent people to suicide when they fully target someone, like the government scientist they suspected of the anthrax poisonings 17 years ago. I thought it ridiculous that Phil and Liz would be telling each other at the end of the episode that they thought their children would be fine. If people differ with that, o.k..

[Empress Josephine]

 I have a lot of conflicting feelings about this send-off. But while watching the scene in the parking garage, I imagined Stan's internal dialogue went much like this clip below. And my internal dialogue went like this in response to Stan's weakness and stupidity: "Oh God, oh Stan!" I did actually want to throw something at Stan for not bringing back up.

On another note, I am glad Paige got off the train. I have got to say for all the talk about Henry deserving a normal American life, Paige deserved one too. Her parents never wanted to let her have one like they did for Henry in my opinion. Every little joy or form of self-discovery she sought out was always met with hostility while Henry was nurtured So I am glad she realized her life has always been her own. I hope she can get in contact with Henry.  I knew deep down she would not leave him.

Edited May 31, 2018 by Empress Josephine

[J-Man]

I half-expected Phil and Liz to ditch Paige at the McDonald's, so I was truly surprised when it turned out that SHE ditched THEM shortly thereafter.

 

For those of you who want to tie up loose ends, I'm pitching this new comedy series to FXX:

"Paige Jennings, Junior Spy," featuring her handlers, Claudia and Renee. 

[millennium]

I feel gut-punched.

The scene in the garage with Stan tore me up.   I can't abide endings.   I'm just grateful Stan isn't comparing notes with Hank Schrader.   I thought for sure Elizabeth the Viper would plug him.

Dire Straits, Brothers in Arms, kicked me right back to Miami Vice and that whole era.

I expected to see Paige on the platform when the train pulled away, but in custody (of course that would have led to all three being captured).    She looked like an idiot doing vodka shots.

This is probably an unpopular opinion, but Elizabeth Jennings deserved to die.  I'm disappointed she didn't.  On some level I think she is too. 

A gripping episode nevertheless.  

In the final scene, as they peered at horizon, I thought, somewhere out there, Martha waits.

It has been a pleasure sharing the company of everyone in this forum over the years.   Thank you all for the time and effort you invested to keep things smart and snarky here season after season.

[dr pepper]

IN. TENSE.

I think i have heart palpatations.

I think that was a real russian ending.

So: "Brothers in Arms" and "With or Without You". Whoever predicted either wins a shot from that last bottle of vodka at Claudia's.

I'm gonna wait til tomorrow to comment.

[TDT]

1 hour ago, showme said:

Since they decided that this is the series finale. I wish they could do a 2 hour feature movie to tie up all the loose ends and give us a sneak peak of everyone's life after the finale.

16 minutes ago, J-Man said:

I half-expected Phil and Liz to ditch Paige at the McDonald's, so I was truly surprised when it turned out that SHE ditched THEM shortly thereafter.

 

For those of you who want to tie up loose ends, I'm pitching this new comedy series to FXX:

"Paige Jennings, Junior Spy," featuring her handlers, Claudia and Renee. 

I figure theyd bring Paige back in a spinoff on some Red Sparrow-type stuff.. with MailRobot as her contact lol

13 minutes ago, millennium said:

Dire Straits, Brothers in Arms, kicked me right back to Miami Vice and that whole era.

"Out Where the Buses Don't Run"..good episode.. was expecting Stan to find Nina's corpse in a wall..

That part with the camera staying on Renee for a while..guess it's up to the viewer to decide that maybe Phillip was right

[ren]

So Oleg is going to rot away in a jail cell for nothing, as Father Andrei gave up Phillip and Elizabeth's identities anyway. Well, no one said The Americans was fair. No one sticks to their words and lived by the principles they exclaim; not Father Andrei, not Elizabeth, not Stan. Oleg was just too good for the people in the show.  

[Umbelina]

I finally got to watch it for myself.

Several times during this episode, I think I was barely breathing, and I already knew what was going to happen!  (Several recaps already, plus the chat thread and this thread.)

Still, I didn't even know I was holding my breath, until, for example, right after the garage scene, I just exhaled in such a prolonged way, that I suddenly realized I had barely been breathing during that entire long scene.

Wow.  All kudos to the actors and writers for that.  It wasn't the only time it happened while watching this.

I feel like I could hear every single one of Stan's thoughts, even when he wasn't speaking, I knew what he was feeling.  While reading about it, I don't think I really "got" Stan's decisions there.  While watching?  I completely did.

None of my predictions came true except for two of the songs.  With and Without You and the Tchaikovsky.  I posted a bunch of possible songs (and I can't find the thread I posted them in!) but after all of them, I said, "It's going to be U-2, and probably some Tchaikovsky.

Reading what happened in this episode?  It honestly didn't quite work for me.  Watching what happened?  It did.

I'm satisfied with the ending of a show I've really loved watching for so many years.  What a fabulous cast (for the most part) and all of them stuck this ending.

In my mind Renee is definitely KGB now.  I think Paige will go to Stan and make a plan, and probably become much closer to Henry again.  Philip and Elizabeth, if they survive, will send money to the kids to finish school, to live.  They certainly aren't out of danger now, not at all, and neither is Arkady...but they all may make it.  I'm sad for Oleg, I think he will be in jail for a long time, but I'll still do my fan-wank that when the USSR falls, he'll somehow be released in all of that hoopla and "we are all friends now, Da?" celebrations.

[EtheltoTillie]

5 hours ago, Bannon said:

The FBI is not going to spare any resource on this matter. It will have the highest priority. The cars will be found. All the human DNA in it is going to be analyzed. It will be established that Paige was in a car used in KGB operations, along with our now headless and handless corpse in Chicago. Paige is very unlikely to skate.

But they think Paige escaped. They don't know she got off the train. I don't think she plans to surface as herself. 

4 hours ago, KBrownie said:

Small penance to pay compared to everyone else.  Oh, they'll miss Paige and Henry.  But hey, we're together, not in prison, not dead, not suffering emotionally after finding out my entire life was a lie, or because I betrayed my country for no real reason.  Of course, they'll be okay.  Some pained expressions over the kids is all they had to suffer.  Too bad all the people they killed don't' get the same courtesy.  But no remorse is shown for any of that by P & E though.  I hope they both end up suffer long, excruciatingly painful deaths and burn in hell.  Writers really dropped the ball here.  

Utter bull.

I think they will suffer inside as does anyone who returns from war. I think they have remorse. 

[Umbelina]

Paige won't try to be someone else.  She doesn't have the skills, or the money for that, or anyone backing her.  Also, she wants to be there for Henry, she, more than anyone else, knows what he's going through right now.  She doesn't want to be alone, and she doesn't want him to be alone.

If she's smart, she'll call Stan and talk it out, and I think Stan will advise her to come in voluntarily and tell all she knows.  She'll probably be able to cut a deal, especially if she leaves out the part about being there when the General died.  It's actually true that she was coerced by her mother when she was only 16, and whatever information she gives the FBI, about Claudia for example, the safe house, will probably be enough for some sort of probation instead of jail.  Stan will probably work to make that happen, for Henry, for Paige, and probably for his best friend, Philip.

ETA

Ha!  Just thought of something.  Watch her burn the Pastor, unthinkingly, and HE is the one charged with Treason, and his wife as well.

Edited May 31, 2018 by Umbelina

[mwell345]

6 hours ago, crgirl412 said:

I loved it. It’s just too bad we had to struggle through the dreck of last season to get this.  They could have advanced everything so much more but it was wasted.

This!!  But that's water under the bridge.  I thought the ending was well done- I liked that it was subtle with no real shocks or twists, yet plenty of suspenseful moments (although for some reason, at one point, I was wondering if we were going to see Stan speak Russian to someone on a telephone : ) )

Never cared about Paige, so I didn't care that she got off the train - I assume she had enough money to get back to DC, where she can either get in touch with Stan and Henry, or call Pastor Groovy Hair and join him in Argentina.  Involving her in this was a bad decision from the start, both for the direction of the show, and for the Jenningese.  Did they really think an 18 year old American girl was going to whoop it up in Russia? Of course she wasn't going to go. It has always been clear that Paige never really understood what being a spy was all about.

I thought the scene where Stan confronts the Jenningses (only to let them walk) was very well done. I could feel the tension, and part of me was waiting for Elizabeth to shoot him.  And I thought the last 15 or so minutes, with the montage of  scenes done without any speaking was well done as well. 

They did leave the Renee question open, and I did wonder why, in spite of what Philip told him, Stan reacted to her the way he did - covering her, watching her sleep, hugging her. Perhaps his need for her outweighs any doubts.  Stan ends the show as a very conflicted man, having betrayed his country and his agency.  For a dedicated, career FBI agent, it's going to take him some time to reconcile that, if he ever can.

(The only thing I would have really liked was Martha picking up the Jenningses when they entered Russia.  Or a "1 year" later scene where Philip runs into her in the grocery store.- J/K  - it was fine the way it ended.)

[kokapetl]

I loved this episode. I thought it was almost perfect. I’m a little concerned about Paige ending up at Claudia’s. I don’t understand why Phil and Liz escaping the law is such an issue, this wasn’t a cop show. The dramatic conflicts presented to viewers were satisfactorily resolved. 

Edited May 31, 2018 by Kokapetl

[companionenvy]

Unfortunately, while I liked large portions of the finale, the central scene -- Stan letting them go -- simply doesn't work for me. At all. 

I could buy Stan passing on the encoded message. Had circumstances permitted it, I could even have bought him letting Oleg escape, because he is someone who has been known to put the personal ahead of the national. But the Jenningses? Knowing, or having a very good idea, of what they've done over the years? Nope. I don't care how disillusioned Stan was, and how much he may have identified on some level with Philip's attitude. First of all, attempts at establishing a moral equivalence notwithstanding, I don't think Stan is so thoroughly disillusioned that he believes that his entire FBI career has been a waste, or that there's no value in what they're trying to do. Maybe he no longer wants to be a Cold Warrior, but he's spent years putting away violent white supremacists, and he's seen first-hand the absolute brutality of the KGB. The FBI may have blood on its hands, too, but I simply don't believe that Stan Beeman would so thoroughly buy into the idea that spying is spying wherever you do it that he would do what he did here. Especially given that, while I think Philip was being (mostly) sincere, Stan could never have been sure how much Philip was playing him in this scene. The guy has been lying to him for years. Even if Stan gets why he would have had to do that, and is willing to allow for the possibility that their friendship was genuine, the possibility that he was being played by these people yet again would, I think, have factored into his decision.

Beyond that, I think the show is guilty of forgetting that relationships that matter to us because they've been given significant narrative attention shouldn't necessarily have the same weight to our characters. I believe that Stan and Philip genuinely care about each other, as do Stan and Henry. But let's not pretend they've been devoted bosom buddies for years. Philip and Stan are friends, and good ones. Because of the relative isolation of their respective lives, that friendship has more emotional significance for both than it might otherwise have assumed. But they are both extremely busy men who have their own lives and other connections. Stan has been with Renee for several years. He has a son who he has at least some relationship with. He's friendly enough with Aderholdt and his wife to socialize together outside of work. I just don't believe he's so deeply emotionally tied to Philip that, even after coming into the garage prepared to make an arrest, he's willing to overlook the fact that he and his wife are spies who have been involved in the murders of people Stan cared about. It isn't like Philip nursed Stan through advanced cancer or took his family in after their home was destroyed in a fire. They were friends - maybe close ones, but not extraordinarily so.  Similarly, while Stan and Henry have an unusually close relationship, Stan is not Henry's surrogate father and Henry is not Stan's foster son. Henry has his own parents, one of whom he has a reasonably close relationship with. He's also been away at school for long portions of the last three years. Stan is a trusted adult, but I don't actually believe that Henry "loves" him. He likes and respects him. Trying to sell it as more than that is, IMO, symptomatic of the exaggerated relationship we're supposed to believe Stan and the Jenningses had in order for Stan's decision to work. 

That major, major caveat aside, I thought most of the finale worked - especially, and quite surprisingly, Paige's ending, which in retrospect was brilliantly set up: even her question early in the car trip about whether or not they could trust Stan takes on a very different meaning in light of her later choice. In the end, I differ from a lot of people in not thinking that her actions were primarily directed by concern for Henry; while I'm sure she loves him, that relationship hasn't had enough focus for years for me to accept it in narrative terms as the prevailing reason. Rather, I think a lot of her distress over Henry's fate was driven by the recognition that, had things gone a little differently, her parents might be willingly leaving her behind as well. The tragedy here is that while P&E really do sincerely love their children, they've betrayed them so fundamentally by the very nature of the family that Paige can't take that final step with them; she's already alone. 

As for her future... I'm less sure. I do, for the first time, buy that she would be able to withstand interrogation. The woman who just made the choice she did, and is last seen sitting alone in Claudia's apartment, has at long last developed the maturity to see what's at stake and say what she needs to say. Yes, it still takes some suspension of disbelief to think the FBI, after a a thorough investigation, wouldn't find some evidence tying her to her parents' activities, but not so much that I can't accept it. So logically, it probably makes the most sense to think that she's going to go to Stan and Henry and continue living on as Paige Jennings. But somehow, I don't see it. She's already gotten Stan to commit to taking care of Henry, and if the show wanted us to think that Paige was staying for him, they could have had her be the one to go to Henry at school, and then show them with Stan in a later montage to establish that he was helping them. Instead, we see her drinking in the apartment of a woman who - unlike Elizabeth, in the end -- was an ultimate survivor who was able to shed all emotional ties to do what needed to be done. Paige is past idealism, and certainly isn't going to try to resume a spy life. But while it takes more suspension of disbelief to imagine her starting over entirely under a new identity than it does for me to imagine the FBI not identifying her as an accomplice, in an emotional sense the finale seems to be pointing more toward Paige disappearing into some anonymous, lonely life than it does to her rebuilding with Henry with help from Stan. At the very least, even if she continues living in the DC area as Paige Jennings, I don't see her actually developing a close relationship with Henry, continuing with college, etc. We heard how destroyed Jackson the intern was last week; Paige is going to be at least as badly off.

Philip and Elizabeth didn't get what they deserve, but that seems right to me, too; often, people don't. What does fit for me is that ironically, what they wind up losing is actually the one thing they arguably deserved to keep: their relationship with their children. As Elizabeth says (in Russian, no less!), they'll get used to the life they have now, but it is a sadly diminished life in which neither has even their patriotic illusions to sustain them. That they're alive, together and walking free means that they are better off than they deserve, but it is pretty bleak, all the same.

[Aulty]

Very good final. It really got to me when I watched it for a second time. I would have liked another montage at the end, but that would probably have been overkill.

I'll just bypass that P&E may still be in danger in the USSR after everything that went down in the past few episodes, and imagine them living in Odessa with Elizabeth having taken up painting and Philip and his son running the local travel agency post Berlin wall.

[txhorns79]

Quote

I would imagine that surveillance cars, in addition to being thoroughly scrubbed after every use, would be swapped out monthly. All that Paige DNA Bannon obsesses over is probably compacted in some salvage lot.

I'd agree.  I can't imagine the surveillance cars are used for more than a few weeks at a time.  They'd need to be switched fairly regularly. 

[anonymiss]

10 minutes ago, companionenvy said:

Unfortunately, while I liked large portions of the finale, the central scene -- Stan letting them go -- simply doesn't work for me. At all. 

I could buy Stan passing on the encoded message. Had circumstances permitted it, I could even have bought him letting Oleg escape, because he is someone who has been known to put the personal ahead of the national. But the Jenningses? Knowing, or having a very good idea, of what they've done over the years? Nope. I don't care how disillusioned Stan was, and how much he may have identified on some level with Philip's attitude. First of all, attempts at establishing a moral equivalence notwithstanding, I don't think Stan is so thoroughly disillusioned that he believes that his entire FBI career has been a waste, or that there's no value in what they're trying to do. Maybe he no longer wants to be a Cold Warrior, but he's spent years putting away violent white supremacists, and he's seen first-hand the absolute brutality of the KGB. The FBI may have blood on its hands, too, but I simply don't believe that Stan Beeman would so thoroughly buy into the idea that spying is spying wherever you do it that he would do what he did here. Especially given that, while I think Philip was being (mostly) sincere, Stan could never have been sure how much Philip was playing him in this scene. The guy has been lying to him for years. Even if Stan gets why he would have had to do that, and is willing to allow for the possibility that their friendship was genuine, the possibility that he was being played by these people yet again would, I think, have factored into his decision.

Maybe Stan didn't need to believe what Philip was selling; he just needed to not be able to shoot them, especially not in front of their child (whom he's known since she actually was a child). Philip rightly called his bluff. It kind of recalls how, much to his surprise, Stan called Oleg's bluff correctly and was allowed to walk away.

[Ina123]

6 hours ago, KBrownie said:

These two statements contradict each other.  Friends don't do what Phillip did to Stan.  They do what Stan did.  All for two people who don't give a shit about what happens to him in the aftermath.  As long as they got they wanted.  Selfish assholes till the bitter end.  I don't care that they felt some emotion at leaving the kids behind.  They should have never put them in that position, to begin with, but Mother Russia comes first, last, always.  Everyone else will be left holding the bag for them.  Paige and Stan betray their country for two people who, in the end, only saw them as a means to an end.  Henry left with knowing that his entire existence was a lie without anyone to turn to.  All the countless innocent people killed who will never have justice.  But hey! Phillip and Elizabeth will "get used to" their new lives in Russia.  Just peachy.

Also, disliking the finale for some very valid reasons does not make one a "hater."  

I agree. Philip manipulated his "friend". Even with all his "est" crap, he wasn't honest.

I'm not a hater. I've loved this show from day one. I'm just disappointed in the ending. To each his own. I just don't feel sentimental toward murderous Russian spies in my country.

Stan knew one or both of them murdered The Teacups. He said so. He knew and still let them go. An idiot to the end. But then, his hands are not clean either. I just wanted him to redeem himself and he didn't. A pox on both their houses.

Stan could have spoken to Oleg and taken care of the Gorby information.

[kokapetl]

5 hours ago, Bannon said:

That just isn't true. The FBI,  using normal investigative techniques  can place her in a car with the headless and handless corpse in Chicago.

But Paige didn’t go to Chicago. And a person’s hair being found in a car isn’t absolute proof that that person was in the car. It could be argued that Elizabeth used the same hairbrush on occasion, or they shared an item of clothing. Or Paige’s hair could’ve have ended up on Elizabeth’s clothes via a couch or another piece of furniture at home.