S06.E10: START

[hellmouse]

2 hours ago, Ellaria Sand said:

I, too, have been critical of the writing for Stan. Choices were made to give us his epiphany about his BFFs quite late in the story. We can quibble with that decision. However, in the context of what we watched last night, I accept that Stan has not yet put ALL of the pieces together about who P&E were and the crimes they committed.

That confrontation was about personal betrayal; he was questioning the authenticity of his relationship with them and Philip most of all. That was not Law & Order Stan. Perhaps it should have been. Instead, it was Beer-Drinking Buddy Stan. I imagine that weeks/months from now, as Stan continues to process these events, the law & order version of him may come to understand the extent of their crimes. 

And this is why I enjoyed the finale: all of these characters will be dealing with the choices that they made (good ones and bad ones) for a long time.

I agree. In a video interview I posted in the media thread, Noah Emmerich said that Stan did in that moment what he was capable of doing and not what he was incapable of doing. And IMO at that moment, he was not capable of arresting his best friend with his wife and daughter. He wanted to. But he wanted NOT to even more. He may come to regret that choice over time as he thinks about it more as law enforcement officer. But as Emily Nussbaum points out so brilliantly (IMO) in her New Yorker review, Stan tells Philip exactly what angle to use "You were my best friend" and Philip uses it. I think Philip meant everything he said, but he also said it all as a way to ensure his family could escape. If he hadn't wanted to escape, he could have handled it differently. 

As Aderholt tells Father Andrei, sometimes you have to let down people who trust you, in order to serve a bigger purpose. And in that garage scene, Philip's purpose is getting his family to safety (and secondarily, getting the anti-Gorbachev coup information to Russia). He is far more skilled at executing this kind of manipulation than Stan is at defending against it, because Stan WANTS to believe. Stan is asking, as a person, for a good enough reason to not act in his official role. Philip gives him a good enough reason, and they get away. 

Stan may regret it in the years ahead. As you say, he doesn't know for certain in the garage that they were the ones committing all the recent murders. As the FBI pulls things together, he may question his choice. But in the moment, he let his friend go. 

[Penman61]

Through a series of sources I'm not at liberty to name, I was able to get a hold of the actual final scene, as written, which had to be cut for time purposes.  It's directly after P & E are looking out over the Moscow night skyline:

* * * *

[Slow dissolve to INTERIOR: Their modest Moscow apartment, a few weeks later.  PHILIP and ELIZABETH, speaking to each other in RUSSIAN.  PHILIP seems withdrawn.]

Elizabeth:  Look, I know you've been down...had trouble...adjusting... 

[PHILIP is silent.]

Elizabeth:  I found this.  [Hands him a flyer.  PHILIP reads it.]

Philip:  Wait...line dancing? In Moscow!!?!

[Kenny Loggins' "I'm All Right" swells on the soundtrack as we push in on PHILIP's slow spreading smile.  Cut to black.]

[kokapetl]

so sad

[MisterBluxom]

9 minutes ago, hellmouse said:

I think the confidence part was huge. They were lucky that the pre-planned passport photo disguises were sufficiently different from the photos and sketches they border guards had. Long haired Elizabeth and younger, goatee wearing Philip would have been less convincing.

If I was a border guard, I think I'd feel over-worked and kind of fed up with TPTB giving me crappy photos and expect me to recognize and detain extremely dangerous people from these stupid photos. I'd probably try to recognize them. But only put in a minimal kind of effort. I realize the nation's security is extremely important. But I resent the Hell out of TPTB doing a half-assed and weak job of providing front line people with the tools they need and then expect the front-line people to put themselves and their families at risk. By "families", I mean that if I get killed because of shitty Intel or other info from TPTB, my family is the one who will suffer after I'm gone. I would give a lot more effort to keeping my family secure than I would to putting myself at risk when TPTB can't provide me with good tools and don't risk anything of themselves or their families. AFAIC, they can go F themselves.

[Bannon]

3 minutes ago, MJ Frog said:

They have to find the car first, and then figure out that particular car was used for that particular crime, and then place Paige in that car.

There is little doubt that Paige should assume that everything is tapped in perpetuity, and she will be periodically tailed. Hounded to the brink of suicide? Maybe. Maybe not. 

No, they just have to collect enough evidence to prove Paige aided her parents criminal actvities. They will likely have enough to have reason to hound her for years, if not decades. The FBI knows this cell with Liz and Phil murdered at least 4 FBI employees.

[Umbelina]

The writers say they did consider several alternate endings, but they felt this one, the one the originally had in mind, worked best.

Vanity Fair interview
 

Quote

 

Did you ever play with a scenario in which Stan turns them in, or were you pretty set on this path?

Fields: On the one hand, this ending we’ve had in mind since the end of Season 1, beginning of Season 2. On the other hand, although we plan a lot and we often stick to our plan, we are really enthusiastic about throwing the plan out the window when a better possibility comes along. And I’d say, on this finale, we experimented with all sorts of different versions of the story, but this is really the one we started with, and this is the one that felt right all along to us.

 

[Tetraneutron]

11 minutes ago, kikaha said:

Philip's (and Elizabeth's) instincts are honed like those of few other people on the planet.  Their survival depends on their ability to quickly and accurately read people.  The fact that both their alarm bells rang off over Renee is pretty damning. 

The three years are trivial, if Renee is there for the long game.  Also, 1) Stan transferred out of counter-terrorism, 2) Renee may well get a job inside the FBI, and 3) the Jennings are still there.  i.e. she has plenty of reasons to stick around. 

It was just Philip though. I don't think Elizabeth ever saw it, and Gabriel said that (as far as he knew) there was nothing there. It just seemed pointless. I like the ambiguous ending with that, but they should have done more with Renee then, given the audience something, anything, about her. Especially with the time jump. It put so many characters into suspended animation. 

[kokapetl]

3 minutes ago, Bannon said:

No, they just have to collect enough evidence to prove Paige aided her parents criminal actvities. They will likely have enough to have reason to hound her for years, if not decades. The FBI knows this cell with Liz and Phil murdered at least 4 FBI employees.

Enough for decades? What do you mean by that? 

[Bannon]

9 minutes ago, Stan39 said:

I don't understand everyone who thinks Paige is fine because there's no evidence to arrest her. Her parents didn't "get away free" they escaped. The FBI knows (with or without Stan tell on god them anything) that Philip and Elizabeth are spies, and they'll at least assume Paige was with them at some point during the escape (Aderholt knows she wasn't in her apartment). I can't imagine the government just lets her slide. For that matter, they'd probably still bring in Henry and detain him/ruin his life. They'll just assume Henry knew/was involved, too, but there wasn't time for the family to go get him. I'm pretty sure both kids lives are ruined. 

Oh, goodness, yes. The lever they use on Paige is going to be how they harass Henry as well. Mercilessly. The notion that Henry will be left alone, because he is innocent, is just at odds with what the FBI does.

[DrumJunkie]

Re: whether or not Philip played Stan in the garage.  I think it's both.  He has been hiding his true identity from Stan for years, so twisting lies with a pinch of truth is reflexive to Phil at this point.  This time, he also poured on the truth instead of just a pinch.  Philip was being truly honest with their relationship.  He knew Stan as a person, a human being, and a friend.  Yet it's also true that Philip was fearful of the threat he posed.  All that was true and Philip poured his heart out while also furthering his final mission to get the message of the coup to Arkady.

[Penman61]

7 minutes ago, Kokapetl said:

so sad

This is a great f*cking catch.  Well done.

[Bannon]

3 minutes ago, Kokapetl said:

Enough for decades? What do you mean by that? 

They will be certain enough of Paige's guilt that they will never stop hounding her. Ever. Umbelina's thought, that she will cut a deal, has a lot of merit, although it might take some time.

[Penman61]

52 minutes ago, DrumJunkie said:

Re: whether or not Philip played Stan in the garage.  I think it's both.

It's been a staple of the series' writing that Philip (and occasionally Elizabeth?) will reveal emotional/psychological truths about themselves while undercover.  They cathartically use to cover to confront and express feelings they couldn't/wouldn't otherwise.

Philip's doing this in the garage was the climactic, virtuoso example of this.  He's absolutely telling the truth about himself (no disguise this time), and also he absolutely knows it's his best play to get Stan to let them go.  Philip's ability to do this has been honed over the course of the series.  It's an amazing coping adaptation a spy would make to stay alive--and stay human.

Edited May 31, 2018 by Penman61

[renatae]

That was a trip! Some of the things I'd hoped for happened, such as E and P staying together, being on the same page, and out if the spy business. Stan looked a little like a patsy in the end, but I couldn't help being glad he made the decision he did and they sort of had closure. Glad Henry will have him.

I was surprised they went back to Russia. I really thought they'd stay in Canada. The scenes of their leaving were very poignant.

I'm sure I'm not alone in being terribly sad for Oleg. Maybe I'll just write my own ending to that...

I was certainly shocked when Paige jumped the train. Not terribly surprised she stupidly went to Claudia's. This girl is dumb as a box of hammers. Her parents are telling her the jig is up and she keeps hammering them with questions instead of getting her butt up on out if there. Predictable as they come and dedicated to a lost cause even though I can't see why she would be loyal to a culture she has never really experienced.

I also wish we would have had disclosure on Renee. Poor Stan, losing his best friend and most likely his wife.

I'm going to miss this program!

[MisterBluxom]

8 minutes ago, Bannon said:

Oh, goodness, yes. The lever they use on Paige is going to be how they harass Henry as well. Mercilessly. The notion that Henry will be left alone, because he is innocent, is just at odds with what the FBI does.

If I was Philip, the single most important thing I could have told Henry during the last conversation was that the FBI would likely come to question him and it would be of the utmost importance that he should never answer any of their questions without a lawyer present. I would have been prepared with the name of a good lawyer who was capable of standing up to the FBI and I would have made sure Henry knew it was extremely stupid for anyone to ever tell the FBI anything beyond their name, address and date of birth without their lawyer present.

Many people may think that is excessive. But more people wind up in prison because of what comes out of their own mouths than would be generally believed. In any case, it can't hurt Henry to ask for a lawyer to be present before answering any of their questions and it might just save him from a terrible fate.

Edited May 31, 2018 by MissBluxom

[Umbelina]

6 minutes ago, Bannon said:

They will be certain enough of Paige's guilt that they will never stop hounding her. Ever. Umbelina's thought, that she will cut a deal, has a lot of merit, although it might take some time.

They need information fast, to catch the others, who may be alerted about their nearly getting caught.

That deal could be cut fast, and Paige does have a lot of useful information.  Hopefully Stan advises her to cut the deal for herself AND Henry.  If they don't?  I agree, the FBI would be ruthless and hound them forever.

[hellmouse]

9 hours ago, Plums said:

So Philip and Elizabeth are left alone in a country falling apart that that they don't really remember, and particularly a country Philip doesn't want to live in. Their kids are lost to them (for now), and in a few years, they'll realize all their sacrifice and terrible deeds were for nothing. It's a nightmare scenario for both of them. And they only have each other, and they have to learn how to be married as Russian civilians Mikhail and Nadezhda, but I wonder if they'll be able to do that? It is super tragic. 

The last scene of the two of them looking out onto Moscow made me think to myself "be careful what you wish for". Because I wanted them to escape and I wanted them to be together. I predicted they'd end up in Russia without their children (although I thought they'd choose to leave both children, rather than having one abandon them!), and here they are. But without their jobs as spies and travel agents, without their American children, without their operations and disguises, who are they? They were young people, malleable, poured into a mold of married Americans. And they made it work; they fit themselves into that mold to the point where it is how they are shaped now. But now the mold is removed. Does the material retain the shape? Does their relationship hold together? Will it crumble?

The fact that Elizabeth took their Russian wedding rings is a good sign that they may be able to make it work. And really, no one else can ever understand what they have experienced. But imagining the day-to-day practicalities of their new lives is tough. Will they resent each other for choices made in the U.S? Will they finally meet Mischa - and is that something Elizabeth would be happy about, knowing that her own children are gone? I could see them both doing work for the KGB - they would make excellent trainers and consultants on anything related to Americans.  I think Elizabeth might enjoy that, but would Philip? 

I see some difficult times ahead of them. I hope they are able to stay together, and love each other. I guess I am sentimental. I also hope they get to work with Arkady because I've always thought he's awesome. But it's not going to be easy. 

[Bannon]

4 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

They need information fast, to catch the others, who may be alerted about their nearly getting caught.

That deal could be cut fast, and Paige does have a lot of useful information.  Hopefully Stan advises her to cut the deal for herself AND Henry.  If they don't?  I agree, the FBI would be ruthless and hound them forever.

The fact that several FBI employees were murdered really complicates things. The FBI was ok with looking the other way with a lot of mob killers, to get testimony, but they hadn't murdered FBI agents.

[dubbel zout]

9 hours ago, Cardie said:

Although one cannot limit meaning to what the writers say they intended, the Js told Sepinwall that Philip tells Stan his suspicions about Renee, not to eff with him, but out of sincere concern.

That's how I saw it. Philip isn't trying to screw over Stan yet again, he's genuinely trying to help him by telling Stan his wife might be a Soviet plant. It sucks for Stan either way, but at least he now has a head's up on Renee.

Side note: Why was there a Violence warning for this episode? There were some brutal emotional hits—Elizabeth gasp/sobbing when she realizes Philip is right that they have to leave Henry in the States; Philip being honest with Stan that he and Elizabeth are spies; the looks on Philip and Elizabeth's faces when they see Paige on the train platform—but I think this is the only episode where no one was shot and there wasn't even a fight scene.

[renatae]

13 hours ago, Bubbetv said:

Ugh Paige You Ignorant Twat.

You know you're burned, so go back to the same town, to the safehouse...to do what? Burn the only other comrade you know? Drink vodka and wait to be taken to jail for the cause? Arrrgh

Well, it looks as though Claudia has already flown the coop, so Paige won't be taking her down with her. Wonder if Paige will attempt to find some other comrades she can endanger with her obtuseness.

Edited May 31, 2018 by renatae

[benteen]

I hope that no matter what, Stan's FBI career is over.  He shouldn't be allowed to be involved in law enforcement in any capacity, not even as a mall cop.  At the very least, the suspicion alone would end his FBI career.

It's hard to imagine the FBI not going after Paige hard, as she is a legal adult and her inexplicable return.  About the only person who can cover for her is Stan and he probably will have to to cover his own ass for letting them go.  I think Henry would be all right though they would likely question and keep an eye on him.

[kokapetl]

30 minutes ago, Penman61 said:

This is a great f*cking catch.  Well done.

I saw it on Reddit. 

[renatae]

13 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

With a car like Renee's?  And how they paid such attention to her vehicle?  hmmm...

What Stan will do is to let her get her job at FBI and then leave a trap for her.  Something she might think is secret info....see if she bites. 

Well, he let P&E go, so, while I think he will try to at least make sure she doesn't keep her job at the FBI, and possibly even separate from her or do as you suggest, I don't see him handing her over. Although he might feel so betrayed that he would eventually do so. At least with P,  it was as P said, "You moved in next door to me, what was I supposed to do?"

[kokapetl]

7 minutes ago, benteen said:

I hope that no matter what, Stan's FBI career is over.  He shouldn't be allowed to be involved in law enforcement in any capacity, not even as a mall cop.  At the very least, the suspicion alone would end his FBI career.

It's hard to imagine the FBI not going after Paige hard, as she is a legal adult and her inexplicable return.  About the only person who can cover for her is Stan and he probably will have to to cover his own ass for letting them go.  I think Henry would be all right though they would likely question and keep an eye on him.

It was a little strange that he wasn’t even excluded from an investigation concerning his super best friend forever. 

Edited May 31, 2018 by Kokapetl

[benteen]

I'm curious what happened to the "KGB B team" that was assisting Philip and Elizabeth with their assignments over the past two seasons.

3 minutes ago, Kokapetl said:

It was a little strange that he wasn’t even excluded from an investigation concerning his super best friend forever. 

Agreed.  Stan wasn't in "uniform" when they checked the Jennings house but we realized that was because he was going to visit Henry, which Aderholt seemed to know.  Stan should not be involved in the official investigation in any way unless it's to answer questions.

[Midnight Cheese]

Wasn’t Amador killed before Zhukov?   

[kikaha]

9 minutes ago, benteen said:

I hope that no matter what, Stan's FBI career is over.  He shouldn't be allowed to be involved in law enforcement in any capacity, not even as a mall cop.  At the very least, the suspicion alone would end his FBI career.

I kinda think the exact opposite may be true.  Stan, no longer in counter-intelligence, saw what no one in that division did.  He even gave them the warning, which they ignored/laughed at.  He was proven right, and they acknowledged that. 

Stan's stock in the FBI may have just risen.  

[benteen]

3 minutes ago, kikaha said:

I kinda think the exact opposite may be true.  Stan, no longer in counter-intelligence, saw what no one in that division did.  He even gave them the warning, which they ignored/laughed at.  He was proven right, and they acknowledged that. 

Stan's stock in the FBI may have just risen.  

That would be disappointing if true because Stan truly doesn't deserve it.

Still, if his stock is on the rise, hopefully he can use that to help Oleg.

[jjj]

1 hour ago, Umbelina said:

It takes one to know one?   She was too perfect, much, much too perfect.  She liked everything Stan liked, football, his gym, she played racketball, she loved to cook, she had no distracting friends or life of her own, she was never grumpy, she even wore make up to bed.  Philip also knew he'd been including random information about Stan in his reports.  Voila!  Perfect woman just happens to be at Stan's gym right when he is, oh, and she adored him at first sight, and never disagrees with him, and obviously the sex was good too. 

Spydar. 

[EtheltoTillie]

4 minutes ago, kikaha said:

I kinda think the exact opposite may be true.  Stan, no longer in counter-intelligence, saw what no one in that division did.  He even gave them the warning, which they ignored/laughed at.  He was proven right, and they acknowledged that. 

Stan's stock in the FBI may have just risen.  

No one knows about Stan's garage encounter with the Jenningses.  But his partner might spill the beans that he kept leaving the post for suspicious wanderings. 

Edited May 31, 2018 by GussieK

[lostmydamnmind]

13 hours ago, Erin9 said:

He will protect her. No doubt in my mind. 

He has to protect her, because she's the only one who knows he let P & E go.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Henry will be tainted forever as the kid whose Russian spy parents abandoned him. Hopefully he'd get put into something like witness protection with a new name until he's 18. Poor kid will need a lot of therapy.

Stan was dumb to think he alone could take both P & E down at the same time. Trying to be a cowboy failed again, just like with Hank on Breaking Bad.

[Macbeth]

So Oleg was the hero in The Americans, and I don't believe he will get out of prison anytime soon.  Such a great character.  I wish we had more of him in the series.

Once again Elizabeth neglected to tell Paige information that would save her.  I can't imagine Paige wouldn't ask about Claudia, who Elizabeth knows is probably looking for a way to kill her and has great contempt for her "American Children."

Bad planning on your part Claudia.  You should have had surveillance on your Russia 101 apartment.  You know how willful Paige can be, and did you really think the "American children" would want to move to Russia.  Whom do you think Paige would turn to??  Appears you bought into your own propaganda.

Given how the past 2 seasons have gone - I really loved this episode.  It was so beautifully acted.  Emmy noms for Kerri, Matthew, and Noah.  Paige abandoning her parents and the confrontation with Stan reminded me how great this show could be.

[Bannon]

26 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Henry will be tainted forever as the kid whose Russian spy parents abandoned him. Hopefully he'd get put into something like witness protection with a new name until he's 18. Poor kid will need a lot of therapy.

Stan was dumb to think he alone could take both P & E down at the same time. Trying to be a cowboy failed again, just like with Hank on Breaking Bad.

The difference is that the writers of Breaking Bad took years to set up why Hank would behave that way. These writers? Writing Stan as a coherent character has never been  a priority for them. The contrast between Hank and Stan's writing really illuminates that aspect of The Americans which frustrated me.

Edited May 31, 2018 by Bannon

[SunnyBeBe]

I found it.  I said that I was inclined to think the final song would be U2 With or Without You.  (See my post on Tuesday at 2:13 p.m.)  had backups too.  lol  Not sure how to post it here.  Under The Soviet Union is No More: Casting News, Stories.....

So, I've picked two of those for my favorite shows.  I didn't get it for Big Love or Breaking Bad though.  Oh well.....I'm not sure when I'll have a favorite show again......the future doesn't look good in that department. 

[Chaos Theory]

17 minutes ago, kikaha said:

I kinda think the exact opposite may be true.  Stan, no longer in counter-intelligence, saw what no one in that division did.  He even gave them the warning, which they ignored/laughed at.  He was proven right, and they acknowledged that. 

Stan's stock in the FBI may have just risen.  

 

14 minutes ago, benteen said:

That would be disappointing if true because Stan truly doesn't deserve it.

Still, if his stock is on the rise, hopefully he can use that to help Oleg.

We rarely in life get what we deserve.  O think this show proved that in spades.  Martha deserved better.  So did Oleg.  Stan was both a better FBI agent then everyone thought and blind to what was right in front of him.    P&E didn’t deserve a happy ending in Russia but their children (yes even Paige) deserve to move on but they will be haunted by this probably forever.    

Its likely that Stan will go on just fine and do what he can to protect Henry and possibly Paige depending on what next move she makes. 

Edited May 31, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[Sarah 103]

There many things about this episode that shocked me. Philip was the one who wanted to leave Henry, and Elizabeth had to be talked about of going to get him. I was sure that the roles would have been reversed. Despite Paige's world crashing down around her, Henry was among her first thoughts. Even when her parents made it clear that they couldn't bring him with them, she wanted to talk to him. It was so sad that when the moment came, she knew she couldn't talk to him without crying.

I couldn't believe that Stan let them go. I guess he put their friendship above country. 

I was so dissapointed that Oleg got life in present. You would think the whole incident with the bio-weapons would have meant something to Stan, but I guess not. 

I can't believe that Philip and Elizabeth get to go off into the sunset together and live happily ever after. I never nexepcted that Elizabeth had such a romantic side, based on her speech that if they had stayed in Moscow, they would have met on a bus. That sounds like someone who beleieves in soulmates and true love, and I never would have thought Elizabeth was that type of person.

I don't understand what is going to happen to Paige. Stan taking care of Henry makes sense, because Henry had no idea and wasn't involved. Are we supposed to think that Stan beleives that Paige knew, but that she had no direct involvement in espionage? Is she ging to turn herself in? I don't get the ending with Paige.

Funniest line of the night-Philip to Stan about his wife may be a spy, but he has no idea whether she actually is or not. 

[jjj]

52 minutes ago, renatae said:

That was a trip! Some of the things I'd hoped for happened, such as E and P staying together, being on the same page, and out if the spy business. Stan looked a little like a patsy in the end, but I couldn't help being glad he made the decision he did and they sort of had closure. Glad Henry will have him.

I was surprised they went back to Russia. I really thought they'd stay in Canada. The scenes of their leaving were very poignant.

They would have been extradited from Canada.

I have to wonder why Elizabeth thought she would be having a future in Russia, after killing their deputy officer in DC and confessing to someone who appears to have beat her back to Russia.  I would expect an inquiry, and maybe Nina-justice.  

Edited May 31, 2018 by jjj

[SunnyBeBe]

16 minutes ago, GussieK said:

No one knows about Stan's garage encounter with the Jenningses.  But his partner might spill the beans that he kept leaving the post for suspicious wanderings. 

I think that Stan covered that by alerting Adeholt that he left his stakeout to check Paige's apt. and didn't see anything.  I take it that his trip there happened before the other agents showed up to stake it out. 

[showme]

1 hour ago, Stan39 said:

I don't understand everyone who thinks Paige is fine because there's no evidence to arrest her. Her parents didn't "get away free" they escaped. The FBI knows (with or without Stan tell on god them anything) that Philip and Elizabeth are spies, and they'll at least assume Paige was with them at some point during the escape (Aderholt knows she wasn't in her apartment). I can't imagine the government just lets her slide. For that matter, they'd probably still bring in Henry and detain him/ruin his life. They'll just assume Henry knew/was involved, too, but there wasn't time for the family to go get him. I'm pretty sure both kids lives are ruined. 

Well, you assumed wrong. The kids of the real life Russian spies continued to study in America, and they even got their Canadian citizenship back. By your logic, they should be arrested and their life ruined, that is simply not what happened in real life. In America, you are usually not guilty by association, OK?

[Bannon]

23 minutes ago, Midnight Cheese said:

Wasn’t Amador killed before Zhukov?   

That's right. Amador was killed in episode 9, and Zhukov episide 11, of season1. It makes no sense that Stan doesn't immediately grasp the likelihood of Phil being Clark, and having killed Amador. Man, that garage scene is going to be, for me, the worst scene of a long running show that I liked, of all time.

[hellmouse]

The one big question I am still wondering about is logistical and really has no bearing on the plot, but I do wonder how long it took Philip and Elizabeth to reach the Soviet border. Assuming they departed from Montreal, where did they fly to? Could they fly directly from Canada to an Eastern Bloc country? I feel like that would have been tricky without a visa. Maybe they needed to go somewhere like West Germany and then drive the rest of the way? 

It's almost 1,000 miles from Berlin to Moscow. That's a long drive. Perhaps the border crossing was not in Russia proper but in Belarus or Ukraine.

Presumably they were able to communicate with Arkady once they were in a Soviet state.

I also wonder how far they drove before meeting Arkady. I was a little surprised he didn't have a driver, although maybe he didn't trust anyone else at the moment. It was nice to see him picking them up and shaking their hands. They were incredible spies for the USSR. Think about how many other illegals were killed - Rob, Emmett, Leanne, William, Harvest - and that's just the ones we know about. Not only did Philip and Elizabeth last a long time in the field, with many many operational successes, but they made it out alive. Impressive. 

It was almost like a father picking up his kids who've been away at camp, and they fall asleep in the back seat because they're so exhausted and they feel safe enough to be able to relax. 

Edited May 31, 2018 by hellmouse

[SunnyBeBe]

I questioned the logistics of their journey as well.  I've gotten some answers, but, not about the one as to what country they flew to and what country were they leaving as they entered Russian border. 

[kokapetl]

7 minutes ago, jjj said:

They would have been extradited from Canada.

I have to wonder why Elizabeth thought she would be having a future in Russia, after killing their deputy officer in DC and confessing to someone who appears to have beat her back to Russia.  I would expect an inquiry, and maybe Nina-justice.  

 

Elizabeth shot Tatiana to save Nesterenko, who was working on behalf of Gorbachev. Gorbachev had popular support, he was as legitimate as a Soviet leader could be. The 1991 coup failed in part because they didn’t have legitimacy. 

Edited May 31, 2018 by Kokapetl

[Tetraneutron]

56 minutes ago, renatae said:

That was a trip! Some of the things I'd hoped for happened, such as E and

I was surprised they went back to Russia. I really thought they'd stay in Canada. The scenes of their leaving were very poignant.

 

I was certainly shocked when Paige jumped the train. Not terribly surprised she stupidly went to Claudia's. This girl is dumb as a box of hammers. Her parents are telling her the jig is up and she keeps hammering them with questions instead of getting her butt up on out if there. Predictable as they come and dedicated to a lost cause even though I can't see why she would be loyal to a culture she has never really experienced.

Why would they stay in Canada? They’d be on the run for the rest of their lives and with the US and probably the Soviets trying to chase them down. 

 

Again, the show doesn’t support that Paige is dumb. She escaped and made it back to DC. And as for the argument that she wasted her parents’ time arguing about Henry when the feds were closing in? So did Elizabeth! In the scene just before that one! The same arguments. If Paige is dumb for doing than then so is Elizabeth. 

[Bannon]

4 minutes ago, showme said:

Well, you assumed wrong. The kids of the real life Russian spies continued to study in America, and they even got their Canadian citizenship back. By your logic, they should be arrested and their life ruined, that is simply not what happened in real life. In America, you are usually not guilty by association, OK?

The parents of those kids hadn't murdered several law enforcement agents, nor was their strong reason to suspect that one of the kids was involved in carrying out those murderous operations. If you don't think that stuff affects FBI behavior tremendously, we will agree to disagree.

[SunnyBeBe]

And of all the people we saw on the flight, why was only one man listed on the IMDB as an airline guest?  Hmmm.....trying to mislead us, I suppose.  I also never saw border patrol agents listed. 

[jjj]

Henry is the real loser in this -- another reason why the "happy ending" for the parents seems so false.  And Henry would have been even more the loser if they had taken him back to Russia.   But it sounds like they would have been caught if they had tried to get him at school.  

It will be a shadow he carries into the future, although there are many careers where having spy parents will not matter.  But definitely closes off some careers.  

[Sarah 103]

14 hours ago, Pickles said:

Will Paige have a normal life? Can she have a relationship with Henry? 

This is why I'm so frustated there was no sense of closure to her plotline. 

14 hours ago, zibnchy said:

That was perfect except for the lack of Martha. Otherwise perfect. I have no idea what show you all were watching.

I feel like we got closure when we saw her adopt the baby. To me, that was a great place to end her story. 

14 hours ago, Natalie25 said:

It feels unresolved. I would've preferred less time on the escape and more time on fallout/reactions from others. Maybe a montage of their life in Russia.

A montage of thier life in Russia intercut with a montage of Paige and Henry in the U.S

14 hours ago, jjj said:

Oleg, no, left in a cell..... He deserved better.

14 hours ago, SeanC said:

Logically, Oleg should be fine.  After the coup against Gorbachev is aborted, the loyalists in the government (including his father) would negotiate to get him out.

I like this idea. Headcannon accepted. I'm going with this, but I wish we could have seen it. Cut a few minutes out of Philip and Elizabeth sleeping in the car, and show us Oleg's release. If they had a gone with an epilogue montage at the end, I hoped it would have included Oleg back in Moscow with his fmaily. 

14 hours ago, GCcyclones said:

Wanted an epilogue to see what happens to Paige.

Me too. 

14 hours ago, mattie0808 said:

I'm having a hard time with Stan letting them go.I really thought they'd shoot Stan (purposely not killing him, but I couldn't see how else they'd get out of the garage). I cannot BELIEVE they just left Renee as a troll to the viewers. I cannot BELIEVE they weren't recognized on the train!!! And weren't we waiting for photos from the park of Phillip? I really need to try to wrap my head around Phillip and Elizabeth just going home while Oleg spends the rest of his life in SuperMax. I'm really disappointed there was no flash-forward at all.

It's not fair at all. I'm only hoping somehow Oleg gets out. I hated that there was no flash forward or title cards saying what happened to the characters, especially Paige and Henry. 

14 hours ago, mattie0808 said:

Kudos to whoever called U2/With or Without You. 

The line "And you give yourself away" really hit me, because it felt like such a telling line. I was expecting someone to be caught by the boarder guard. 

[jjj]

1 minute ago, SunnyBeBe said:

And of all the people we saw on the flight, why was only one man listed on the IMDB as an airline guest?  Hmmm.....trying to mislead us, I suppose.  I also never saw border patrol agents listed. 

Two rows behind Elizabeth, in the aisle seat, was someone who looked so much like Erica's husband!