S04.E03: Good Out Here

[raven]

Quote

Madison and Morgan try to help Nick find inner peace. A quest for revenge exacts its toll on the group.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Finally!

 

Too bad Travis can't come back.

[katycat74]

Have to say..that surprised me. 

[raven]

Except for the annoying blaring horn, I liked the episode.  They killed Nick!!!  I know I am alone but I always laugh at his screw ups and was looking forward to Morgan whacking him more with his stick.  Oh well.

[Straycat80]

I’m surprised  they killed off Nick too.  I’ll miss laughing at how dumb he was. Could Madison be gone too? If she is I would not be upset at all. 

[nodorothyparker]

That's what I get for not taking the trouble to look for spoilers this week.  I figured it would be the usual amount of fuckery and didn't bother.  Figures they would finally getting around to thinning out the Clark family the same episode they gave us the glory that was Morgan knocking Junky Nick around with his stick.

This actually wasn't terrible with pairing off the new better cast with the old.

[raven]

I'm guessing Frank Dillane is the surprise cast member on TD tonight.

[mustbekarma]

I never expected Nick to die. I actually felt sorry for him. Being shot by a kid he really cared about was really a sucky way to go. Getting eaten by Walkers would have been kinder.
Hell has frozen over.

 

I still think killing Nick off is a good idea, though.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Sudden and abrupt, guess Dillane became too problematic.

Edited April 30, 2018 by MrsRafaelBarba

[TVFan17]

That surprised me too -- but I have to say I am not disappointed!  Nick and Madison are/were the two who annoy me the most on the show, and I am starting to wonder if something very bad happened to Madison that sent Nick into such a rage.  It seems like he was on a mission to kill when he saw that fool with the blue car.

Of course, if Nick had listened to Morgan and left the bad guy alone, the little murderous tot would not have killed him.  I don't know whether to hate that kid or thank her.

This season might just end up being worth watching after all!    I don't like Alicia either, but if I can be rid of two members of that family by the end of the season, I will deal with her if I have to.

Edited April 30, 2018 by TVFan17

[raven]

I just read this interview which says Frank D wanted off the show.

No spoilers at the link.

Althea was looking for some specific tapes; did she find a set that said "The Boys"?  I still wonder if she is/was part of the Vulture crew.

[Proteus]

1 minute ago, MrsRafaelBarba said:

Sudden and abrupt, guess Dillane became too problematic.

Was he a problem on set?

[MrsRafaelBarba]

7 minutes ago, Proteus said:

Was he a problem on set?

 

Something was always off with Dillane to me.

 

Plus the arrest a while back, when he tried to barge past security onto the CBS studio lot.

Edited April 30, 2018 by MrsRafaelBarba

[Christi]

well that was sumthin! Why didnt they keep Chandler and use this as the big shockarooni?

I think Dellani sees himself as the next Johnny Depp.

Sucks that Chandler really wanted to stay and they didnt honor HIS wishes? but they cater to Dellani

Edited April 30, 2018 by Christi

[Shriekingeel]

I really hate Idiot Plots, but the episode would have been about 15 minutes long without them. I liked the first two episodes of the season, but this one had me rolling my eyes throughout. 

 

But it I won’t miss Nick and his scenery chewing. 

[Lamima]

How can the journalist, what's her name- Alice?, use a video camera this far into the ZA? Like how does she charge the battery? And I am not liking her. She was annoying on the Lost too.

[Proteus]

8 minutes ago, MrsRafaelBarba said:

 

Something was always off with Dillane to me.

 

Plus the arrest a while back, when he tried to barge past security onto the CBS studio lot.

Ok, thanks.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Talking Dead should be interesting tonight.

[For Cereals]

Is this going to be a thing whenever we see flowers?  Death involving a kid?

[defeated]

30 minutes ago, Lamima said:

How can the journalist, what's her name- Alice?, use a video camera this far into the ZA? Like how does she charge the battery? And I am not liking her. She was annoying on the Lost too.

I like the character, but I was wondering about her battery life, too.  Maybe she could recharge it with the truck battery somehow, but that's becoming a nonrenewable resource, if she's trying to create some kinda documentary . 

[mightysparrow]

I wonder if Dillaine realized that FTWD wasn't going to give him the huge international fame that the original franchise gave its cast.  Most of the actors on FTWD are already established actors; this was his first major gig.  AMC is known for not paying its actors so if you're not going to be able to augment your income with convention fees, why bother working so hard, in NoWhere USA, on a crappy show?

Something must have gone down for him to not even bother to show up on Talking Dead.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

8 minutes ago, mightysparrow said:

I wonder if Dillaine realized that FTWD wasn't going to give him the huge international fame that the original franchise gave its cast.  Most of the actors on FTWD are already established actors; this was his first major gig.  AMC is known for not paying its actors so if you're not going to be able to augment your income with convention fees, why bother working so hard, in NoWhere USA, on a crappy show?

Something must have gone down for him to not even bother to show up on Talking Dead.

His biggest claim to fame are Fear, a Harry Potter film and In the Heart of the Sea.

 

Having seen In the Heart of the Sea, Fear  folks are laying it on thick.

Regarding his acting IMHO.

 

Frank is nowhere near as good as his father GOT alumn Stephen Dillane.

[Straycat80]

34 minutes ago, mightysparrow said:

 

Something must have gone down for him to not even bother to show up on Talking Dead.

They said on Talking Dead that Dillane was in Europe and they were going to try to have him on the show before the end of the season. 

[MrsRafaelBarba]

59 minutes ago, Straycat80 said:

They said on Talking Dead that Dillane was in Europe and they were going to try to have him on the show before the end of the season. 

I'd be surprised if he comes on Talking Dead.

[filmgal]

2 hours ago, raven said:

I just read this interview which says Frank D wanted off the show.

No spoilers at the link.

Althea was looking for some specific tapes; did she find a set that said "The Boys"?  I still wonder if she is/was part of the Vulture crew.

I thought it said “The Bog” but I could be mistaken. I didn’t pause to read it.

Finally! He’s gone! 

I did somewhat enjoy the last two episodes - Morgan appearing and I liked the concept of “The Vultures”. Enough for me to watch this on its actual night and not let them pile up for weeks like I’ve done in the past.

There were a lot of eye rolling moments again in this episode though. I’m still on the fence.

[dvil]

Geez, so much for this show being about family.

[MVFrostsMyPie]

Oh Nick... you looked at the flowers. Byyeeeee!

[TDT]

1 hour ago, MVFrostsMyPie said:

Oh Nick... you looked at the flowers. Byyeeeee!

And Carol was nowhere to be found lol

[Daltrey]

5 hours ago, filmgal said:

I thought it said “The Bog” but I could be mistaken. I didn’t pause to read it.

Finally! He’s gone! 

That is what it said; I went back to check the numbers underneath, which said 17-24. My first thought was, that can't be good, suddenly making me suspicious of Althea.

 

I had almost thought Nick was toast when Morgan saved him from the walkers just before they found the guy with the El Camino. I actually thought he had been bit, it was so similar to the way Carl went out on TWD, and I couldn't believe it was happening. Great fake out considering I didn't see the gunshot at the end coming at all. I didn't realize how much I hated Nick until I unexpectedly found myself overjoyed in surprise at this turn of events....I guess that's why I laughed so hard at Morgan schooling him with the staff at the beginning, LOL! I have a sneaking suspicion that Madison is already dead as well; it's weird that no one has mentioned her in the present timeline. It's almost as if they've already grieved and moved on. 

[nodorothyparker]

1 hour ago, Daltrey said:

I have a sneaking suspicion that Madison is already dead as well; it's weird that no one has mentioned her in the present timeline. It's almost as if they've already grieved and moved on.

I'm getting that impression too.  Or at least I'm at the point that it wouldn't surprise me if they string out the ambiguous flashback timeline until the midseason break when we find out the Vulture people killed Madison and that's why what was left of our group was on that road.  Nick's reaction to seeing the El Camino was completely outsized for it just to be about being outsmarted by a 10-year-old.

[JackONeill]

I have a feeling this season is going to see the end of all the hold-overs (with maybe 1or 2 exceptions), and Nick was merely the first. 

It’s funny, but I saw a few seconds of the new show runners being interview on TTD, and they were talking about Nick, and how they had to give him a good send-off. I’m sorry, but blowing yourself up on a dam to save your family — well, that’s pretty heroic ANDdramatic. But getting shot by girl —-. Although it is true that for a character like Nick getting shot by a girl may be extremely appropriate. But if I were the actor, and had any say, blow me up with the dam while saving everyone.

And why bring back Luciana if you’re going to kill Nick? He was her only real connection. Plus, why bring her back her wo only had a few episodes under her while killing Ofelia last year? Maybe I may be in the minority, but I think the actress who played Ofelia was better. Plus, she was a nice reminder of Daniel, one of the best-liked characters.

I think Madison’s days are numbered given the way they’re telling the story. Unless this is some clever con . . . but the writers just aren’t that clever.

I don’t know about Strand and Alicia, although I think Strand willl go before Alicia. I don’t see his character intergratkng as well with the newbies.

But if I am right, and we lose all or nearly all the old cast, then my question is Why???  Why not just let them die in the dam explosion? (Yes, Madison would have had to have been dealt with. But that would have much easier then doing what I think they’re doing.)

[jay741982]

10 hours ago, MrsRafaelBarba said:

Sudden and abrupt, guess Dillane became too problematic.

He wanted off the show to Pursue other Opportunities 

[Daltrey]

24 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

I'm getting that impression too.  Or at least I'm at the point that it wouldn't surprise me if they string out the ambiguous flashback timeline until the midseason break when we find out the Vulture people killed Madison and that's why what was left of our group was on that road.  Nick's reaction to seeing the El Camino was completely outsized for it just to be about being outsmarted by a 10-year-old.

Yep, all of that, exactly. Just what I've been thinking.

[nodorothyparker]

Given the Nick and Madison flashbacks, Nick's obvious rage, and the way that no one else has so much as said her name, I honestly thought the big reveal at the end of this episode would be that Madison was dead.  So full credit to the show for a maybe a bit of misdirect on that one.  I acknowledge it's entirely possible that our road crew wanted the SWAT vehicle because the Vultures instead took her and they're desperately needing it to try to track her down and we'll be stuck with more seasons of stink face, but that just feels less likely.  I think too that Nick is not going to be the only member of the old cast to be shown the door in these next few episodes, which could be taken as admitting and moving to fix the show's obvious problems without just abruptly saying "They all died when the dam went boom.  Here's some new people instead."  At least they gave us the visual of Morgan smacking Nick around with his stick before they killed him.

I did like how they were mixing it up pairing old characters with the new, and a lot of the cinematography this new season is actually quite good.  I get that the washed out color palette is not everyone's cup of tea, but it at least makes it easier for us to keep straight which timeline we're in if they're going to insist on running more than one at once.  Althea's recording random life stories doesn't really bother me as it's not hurting anyone and what else do they have to do?  It actually shows a bit of optimism on her part that she's going to be able to continue to find power sources to keep her equipment running and that someday there will be people and the means to watch any of it.  

[nitrofishblue]

11 hours ago, Lamima said:

How can the journalist, what's her name- Alice?, use a video camera this far into the ZA? Like how does she charge the battery? And I am not liking her. She was annoying on the Lost too.

Works the same way the never-ending supply of gas and ammo does

[oakville]

9 hours ago, filmgal said:

I thought it said “The Bog” but I could be mistaken. I didn’t pause to read it.

Finally! He’s gone! 

I did somewhat enjoy the last two episodes - Morgan appearing and I liked the concept of “The Vultures”. Enough for me to watch this on its actual night and not let them pile up for weeks like I’ve done in the past.

There were a lot of eye rolling moments again in this episode though. I’m still on the fence.

I am happy that Nick was killed. I hate his greasy Johnny Depp look. Madison is less annoying. The Vultures are smarter than the Saviors.

I thought Madison's stadium compound had chickens & other livestock. They could survive for a bit on the eggs etc.

I am glad that Morgan knocked Nick around.

I wonder if Althea is a double agent for the vultures or another group ?. Where did she get a functioning Swat team vehicle?

[oakville]

36 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

Given the Nick and Madison flashbacks, Nick's obvious rage, and the way that no one else has so much as said her name, I honestly thought the big reveal at the end of this episode would be that Madison was dead.  So full credit to the show for a maybe a bit of misdirect on that one.  I acknowledge it's entirely possible that our road crew wanted the SWAT vehicle because the Vultures instead took her and they're desperately needing it to try to track her down and we'll be stuck with more seasons of stink face, but that just feels less likely.  I think too that Nick is not going to be the only member of the old cast to be shown the door in these next few episodes, which could be taken as admitting and moving to fix the show's obvious problems without just abruptly saying "They all died when the dam went boom.  Here's some new people instead."  At least they gave us the visual of Morgan smacking Nick around with his stick before they killed him.

I did like how they were mixing it up pairing old characters with the new, and a lot of the cinematography this new season is actually quite good.  I get that the washed out color palette is not everyone's cup of tea, but it at least makes easier for us to keep straight which timeline we're in if they're going to insist on running more than one at once.  Athea's recording random life stories doesn't really bother me as it's not hurting anyone and what else do they have to do?  It actually shows a bit of optimism on her part that she's going to be able to continue to find power sources to keep her equipment running and that someday there will be people and the means to watch any of it.  

I would like to get  a flashback as to Althea's story . How did she survive the ZA? Was she a journalist before the ZA?

[JackONeill]

5 minutes ago, oakville said:

I would like to get  a flashback as to Althea's story . How did she survive the ZA? Was she a journalist before the ZA?

Oh, have no fear (the walking dead), we will get flashbacks. This show loves to go backwards, sideways, but not so much forward. So, yeah, we'll get flashbacks.

And I agree with NODOROTHYPARKER -- I applaud TPTB's use of the washed-out colors to show new time and new people. Subtle, but easy to follow. I know I don't often (ever?) say TPTB does something right, well, this time they did.

[walnutqueen]

I'm sorry they didn't kill off the journalist.  She is even more annoying than Tobias.

[SoSueMe]

26 minutes ago, walnutqueen said:

I'm sorry they didn't kill off the journalist.  She is even more annoying than Tobias.

Aw, gee. Tobias, we hardly knew ye.

[heisenberg]

Yes he's out!  Good work kiddo!

At firt I was like "those morons are gonna destroy the truck as usual"...  But no, the truck is fine!

So...  Maybe next week Alicia will keep telling the story of Madison death and die too?   Please!

Thanks little girl!

[heisenberg]

15 hours ago, Lamima said:

How can the journalist, what's her name- Alice?, use a video camera this far into the ZA? Like how does she charge the battery? And I am not liking her. She was annoying on the Lost too.

Charging a battery is the least problematic thing to do in that world,  she can charge from the truck, from a mini-solar panel that you take in camping, a generator moved by a stationnery bicycle like Gilligan used to do, etc... 

it is the gas for the trucks, cars that make no sense.  If at least the SWAT truck was a diesel converted to burn vegetebal oil it could make sense but...

[econ07]

I'm thinking there is another group somewhere.  Otherwise, it means Dharma-nurse is only on for the backstory, and if Nick is gone and they limit the backstory to 1/2 a season, Dharma, Kim Dickens, and Nick will all be gone real soon.  I think it is more likely that Kim Dickens and Dharma were separated with another group, Alicia's group is trying to find them, and that's why they want to go to the flag location.  From this episode, they appear to be on a mission and not mourning the loss of their mother.

[CloudySky]

I will be surprised if Madison is actually dead. They're making that too obvious for it to be the case. But I will be annoyed if the thing the Vultures did is lame/not worthy of Nick's reaction in this episode. If anyone else dies this season, it will probably be Luciana. Maybe Naomi out of the new characters.

A lot of people on the internet wonder why don't they just kill the vultures already if they're just standing there, but it's refreshing to see people acting like normal human being whose first instinct isn't stab/slash/bang/woosh. Just because it's the apocalypse, doesn't mean everybody has to turn into an inhumane savage. That's what their current mission entailed, and the consequence was Nick's death.

The Vultures are smarter than I first gave them credit for. Interesting type of villain...so again, what did they do that was so bad other than the obvious starving them out?

Will we be visiting the bog in season 4B? I'm really enjoying this season and the old/new cast mesh well. The flashback type of storytelling usually annoys me, but this time it just seems to work nicely.

[piequinn35]

Oh I didn't see that coming! well I was surprised that Nick survived that DAM EXPLOSION anyway. :P

RIP

12 hours ago, TDT said:

And Carol was nowhere to be found lol

Maybe the kid is related to Carol?

[CloudySky]

32 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Fair enough, but prior to this season I thought Madison was pretty much in kill them all mode.  If TPTB are going to continue with this flashback crap, then they need to come up with the reason for Madison's change of approach.  They need to show why Nick lost his shit.  The rest of the old cast haven't been shown on tv enough for me to know if their attitudes have changed.

I wish they would just stick with one timeline.  All of this back and forth is annoying.

I don't think killing was her go to. She came up with the no killing rule in the hotel and if I recall correctly, she tried to play the negotiator and peace keeper between the ranch and Walker's group until that blew up. She snapped when Troy revealed it was his fault, but that was believable because she was a killer before the apocalypse (and in a stressful situation and you know the guy is a violent sociopath with no remorse). If she were just a regular guidance counselor who decided to bash some guy's skull in, that would have been harder to swallow.

It's different now because they were safe and had been living peacefully for a year after miraculously cheating death and reuniting the entire family, trying to build a civilized community. Second chance, new lease on life...a certain optimism that things are looking up with crops and livestock, a school and growing population. It's almost like they were back in the old world as shown through the opening scene with the characters waking up fresh faced in beds and talk of hot showers. Makes sense that the go to action isn't mowing down a bunch of (so far) non violent campers including a kid.

They will probably explain how she found everyone. Strand seems to have gone through something as well. He has the hand injury and the rock from the previous episode. His character change is even more dramatic than Madison's.

[kdm07]

5 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

I will never understand it, but Alicia is a popular character as I travel on the net.  I don't get it, I don't understand it, but she is popular.  I don't think she is going anywhere.  I think Strand is a keeper as well.

 

Her portrayal of Commander Lexa on The 100 was one of the best things about that show (ymmv of course) so she gets a lot of her popularity from that. I hope she and Strand will be the last ones standing from the original cast as they're the only ones I still care about.

So glad Nick is gone. Never liked him and never grew to like him either, not even after his big hero moment last season.

Edited April 30, 2018 by kdm07

[TVFan17]

At one point I think Nick said something to Morgan along the lines of "You don't know what they did to me" (about the Vultures).   I don't know if that is verbatim, but he did say something like "...they did to me" or "...they've done to me".       So, Nick was clearly hinting that something the Vultures did was very personal to him -- either they specifically harmed him in some brutal way (sexual assault? Torture?), or they seriously harmed someone close to him.  

Since we saw that everyone else who was close to Nick was with Nick at some point in the current timeline, then something must have happened to Madison in the flashback timeline.  Yes, it seems too obvious for it to have been her, and it could be a clever fake-out of some sort -- but I can't think of anyone or anything else that would have prompted him to go into kill mode like he did.  He was filled with rage, and he was not going to let the Vulture guy live.  He certainly didn't impale him on some antlers just because the guy was about to drive off with a stash of food.

Otherwise, if the Vultures did not kill Madison, or harm her in some serious way (including rape), and did not harm Nick in some serious way (meaning more than just a punch in the stomach), then what would cause him to vaguely refer to what they did to him as though it was a reason for vengeance?      Could the Vultures have assaulted Alicia or Luciana (which we would find out in flashbacks, of course)??

Edited April 30, 2018 by TVFan17

[Gobi]

I've only seen the last few minutes, after switching over from Westworld. Was surprised to see Nick die. Was wondering, and others here have confirmed, that we haven't seen Madison in the new scenes. She's either dead or a prisoner somewhere. If she dies, it probably won't be until the  season finale.

What was with the return of color after Nick died? A scene from the afterlife? That would be optimistic for this show. I certainly hope it wasn't "all a dream". 

The fear on Luciana's face seemed genuine. What are her chances of survival now that Nick is gone? Not good, in show terms, not ZA terms.

[heisenberg]

2 hours ago, CloudySky said:

I will be surprised if Madison is actually dead. They're making that too obvious for it to be the case. But I will be annoyed if the thing the Vultures did is lame/not worthy of Nick's reaction in this episode. If anyone else dies this season, it will probably be Luciana. Maybe Naomi out of the new characters.

I don't think so, he would have asked the guy "Where's my mom?" but instead he went straight for the jugular and they kept talking about revenge.

Edited April 30, 2018 by heisenberg