S02.E07: Mrs. Sherlock Holmes

[Teitr Styrr]

I really liked this episode. Not ashamed to admit I teared up when "Ms. Sherlock" gave the speech. A few things off the top of my head:

This was a terrible mission for Rittenhouse. Nicholas could have wiped out Rittenhouse with just this one mission, or did he think Rittenhouse would have succeeded in getting him without strong women like Emma and Lucy's mom? Sooo stupid.

The relationship drama is hitting all the right beats for me. How absurd and complicated it is. 

Rufus thinking he's invincible and Flynn letting him know that doesn't mean you can't be hurt real bad. AoS has a similar storyline right now, also related to time travel.

Emma won me over (this episode) but mostly because her story and mine are very similar. Not physical abuse to be fair to my father, but drunk, mental and emotional abuse to spare. I think she's playing Nicholas now tho. She gonna take over.

I'm convinced Jessica doesn't know what's going on now. It's just kinda TV 101. 

I absolutely thought that "Ms. Sherlock" was going to find them in the present to let them know she figured it out. Especially after Wyatt read that she was still fighting for women's rights "to this day". 

[Destiny74]

I see Wyatt as being a very loyal but confused man.  He had "put to bed" the idea that he could save his dead wife and she shows up, very much alive.  I think his feelings for Lucy were real and he was all in to go for a realtionship with her and then the confusion of having his wife still alive jacked him up.  His loyalty won out.  He had wanted her alive for so long, he had to give their marriage a chance, whether or not he had feelings for Lucy.  I kinda feel bad for him.  He has no idea what kind of marriage he had, what kind of a harpy she may have been or what kind of an asshole he had been in the years he missed.  Obviously, something had gone wrong for Jessica to be divorcing him.  But his loyalty was too great and he felt he had to try and make the marriage he had idealized for so long work.  I only wish he had maybe considered marital counseling or just taken a moment to do a little recon before jumping back into his marriage.  Maybe then he would have realized he and Jessica may not have been the ideal match he had dreamedpf and let the relationship go. I feel she's Rittenhouse and when she is activated, he's gonna break.

My issue with Wyatt is not letting Lucy go.  She needs as much closure as she can get living next door to the man she has feelings for and the wife he chose over her.  Let her cry on Flynn shoulder.  Hell, there is a crapton more to the Lucy/ Flynn relationship than we know.  She came back in time and gave him her diary for a reason.  She didn't pick him out of a lineup.  There is a reason she trusted him with the knowledge of the future and not some other guy.  Maybe they become lovers, maybe just good friends and confidants?  Who knows?  But he's important to her, none the less.  Wyatt need to focus on his marriage, not Lucy and whatever she is doing with whomever.  Not to mention, there is no one else to canoodle with in the bunker besides the genius, and I never see them actually talking about anything.

Nicholas and Emma?  She knows who holds all the power in Rittenhouse since they brought him to the future.  She knows who's ear to whisper in to get what she wants done.  She knows how to lie and manipulate.  And she knows that, as his lover, if he meets and untimely (?) death, she'd be in the perfect position to slide right into the Dictator role.  She isn't in love.  She calculating and coniving to be be in the right place at the right time.  And if she ends up with The Dictators little Bambino?  All the better.

[bros402]

2 hours ago, Teitr Styrr said:

I really liked this episode. Not ashamed to admit I teared up when "Ms. Sherlock" gave the speech. A few things off the top of my head:

This was a terrible mission for Rittenhouse. Nicholas could have wiped out Rittenhouse with just this one mission, or did he think Rittenhouse would have succeeded in getting him without strong women like Emma and Lucy's mom? Sooo stupid.

The relationship drama is hitting all the right beats for me. How absurd and complicated it is. 

Rufus thinking he's invincible and Flynn letting him know that doesn't mean you can't be hurt real bad. AoS has a similar storyline right now, also related to time travel.

Emma won me over (this episode) but mostly because her story and mine are very similar. Not physical abuse to be fair to my father, but drunk, mental and emotional abuse to spare. I think she's playing Nicholas now tho. She gonna take over.

I'm convinced Jessica doesn't know what's going on now. It's just kinda TV 101. 

I absolutely thought that "Ms. Sherlock" was going to find them in the present to let them know she figured it out. Especially after Wyatt read that she was still fighting for women's rights "to this day". 

The organization she founded fights to this day

[Manda317]

My biggest problem with Wyatt is that he is supposed to be this awesome soldier, but he is not soldier material. He steals the time machine, accidentally kills a man, leaves the bunker against orders, brings a civilian to a classified location, and hesitates when attacking an ememy. He does all of this and he hasn't even been demoted. Following orders and respecting those in command is a very big part of being in the military. Some people, like Wyatt, do not have the personality for this. I say this as someone who would not make it out of boot camp lol. I do not think Wyatt is a bad person. I sympathize with some of the things he has done. They just don't fit what the character is supposed to be.

I did not get the vibe that Wyatt was trying to instigate anything with Lucy at the end of the episode. I think he saw her upset and wanted to comfort someone he cared about. I don't think he really even thought about it. That being said, he does need to back off. He has no right to make any comments about Lucy doing anything with anyone else. It is not his business. I am glad both Lucy and Flynn told him so. I loved how Flynn told him he needed to take any problem he had up with Lucy. He didn't make it a competition. He just told him it was none of his business and he should discuss anything further with her. It was very respectful of Lucy and her right to make her own decisions, unlike demanding that someone else just stay away from her.

[BooBear]

2 hours ago, Manda317 said:

I loved how Flynn told him he needed to take any problem he had up with Lucy. He didn't make it a competition. He just told him it was none of his business and he should discuss anything further with her. It was very respectful of Lucy and her right to make her own decisions, unlike demanding that someone else just stay away from her.

It is hard not to like Flynn. He seemed respectful of Lucy from the start -- one reason I have a hard time shipping them. To me he almost gives off a fatherly vibe.  I wanted to laugh at Wyatt when he didn't want Flynn to come... HA... Wyatt definitely needs someone who can shoot streight. But I have some sympathy for Wyatt because even if he has chosen Jessica he has to feel badly about what happened and maybe is trying too hard to make it right.  I also feel he did say he didn't want Lucy turning to Flynn on the rebound and though no woman wants to hear that he was a legitimate concern. I think the show is trying to have it both ways so that when something DOES happen with Jessica, Wyatt can get back into he Lucy romance game.

I think the show has improved this year. It does better with a shorter episode order. 

[shapeshifter]

6 hours ago, Teitr Styrr said:

I absolutely thought that "Ms. Sherlock" was going to find them in the present to let them know she figured it out. Especially after Wyatt read that she was still fighting for women's rights "to this day". 

Wyatt must have said that she still had credit for fighting for women's right "to this day," right? Because she'd have to be about 105 years old now.

[AAEBoiler]

On 4/30/2018 at 3:01 AM, bros402 said:

Also, the actress they chose to play Humiston actually looks like her

I thought a similar thing when I looked at the Alice Paul entry on Wikipedia.

[legaleagle53]

9 hours ago, Teitr Styrr said:

I absolutely thought that "Ms. Sherlock" was going to find them in the present to let them know she figured it out. Especially after Wyatt read that she was still fighting for women's rights "to this day". 

First of all, I highly doubt she'd still be alive almost a century after she met them, unless she somehow independently stumbled onto the secret of time-travel or immortality.  Second, what Wyatt said was that she became a feminist icon around whom women were still rallying in the ongoing battle for full equality -- NOT that she was literally still alive and fighting for the cause.

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Wyatt must have said that she still had credit for fighting for women's right "to this day," right? Because she'd have to be about 105 years old now.

More like 147, since she was born in 1871.  In real history, she died in 1948.  Interestingly enough, she never really considered herself to be either a feminist or a suffragist (which, incidentally, historians say is the correct term for the movement in the US -- "suffragette" was used in the UK).  She once wrote that she favored giving women the right to vote if it meant that it would help them secure equal justice for themselves, but that's about as far as it really went.

Edited May 2, 2018 by legaleagle53

[possibilities]

5 hours ago, Manda317 said:

he does need to back off. He has no right to make any comments about Lucy doing anything with anyone else. It is not his business. I am glad both Lucy and Flynn told him so. I loved how Flynn told him he needed to take any problem he had up with Lucy. He didn't make it a competition. He just told him it was none of his business and he should discuss anything further with her. It was very respectful of Lucy and her right to make her own decisions, unlike demanding that someone else just stay away from her.

I loved that. I loved that Flynn was treating Lucy like an adult and an equal. That's my issue with Wyatt-- not that he's confused or upset, but that he's disrespectful, self-absorbed, condescending, and possessive. He really does think only of himself and his emotions, not anybody else's needs, and he kind of always has been that emo guy. It's very weird that the military muscle of the team is the least disciplined and the most driven by his emotional baggage. Everybody else is actually much more cold-blooded, mission-driven, and a team player.

[legaleagle53]

2 minutes ago, possibilities said:

I loved that. I loved that Flynn was treating Lucy like an adult and an equal. That's my issue with Wyatt-- not that he's confused or upset, but that he's disrespectful, self-absorbed, condescending, and possessive. He really does think only of himself and his emotions, not anybody else's needs, and he kind of always has been that emo guy. It's very weird that the military muscle of the team is the least disciplined and the most driven by his emotional baggage. Everybody else is actually much more cold-blooded, mission-driven, and a team player.

Good point.  After seeing the way he treated Lucy in this episode, I'm really beginning to see why Jessica herself must have been ready to drop-kick him to the curb even in the original timeline before she was murdered.  Yeah, he's easy on the eyes, but beyond that, what did she and Lucy ever see in him?

[proserpina65]

On ‎04‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 11:17 PM, The Wild Sow said:

About that next episode preview -- 1981?  OK, I get that the team is all young enough to have "not existed" in 1981 (since they previously traveled to 1983 and it was just barely "pre-conception" for Rufus) -- but I hope they don't end up taking Flynn!  I mean, Goran Visnjic is a really good 45 -- but he's still 45!  LOL, I'm a heckuva lot older than 45, and I think he's a good 45 ;-)

Damn, I thought he was closer to my age than that.  But yeah, a really, really good 45.  I was thinking a fantastic 48/49, but that's wishful thinking. ;-)

When was the Watergate episode?  Shortly before it hit the press?  So around 1974.  Maybe they're making Flynn 42?

Edited May 2, 2018 by proserpina65

[proserpina65]

On ‎04‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 1:26 PM, iMonrey said:

I really enjoyed the character of Grace Humiston but I have to admit, I had to look her up, as well as Alice Paul, to see if they were real people because I've never heard of them before. Which is actually an interesting direction this show might have taken - go back and change history so we have no current knowledge of some of these people. Then it would make sense we never heard of them before because the Time Team keeps wiping them out. It would be far less egregious than, say, changing who killed Lincoln or where JFK was shot. 

I'd only heard of Alice Paul because she's mentioned in the PBS series about America in WWI.

[proserpina65]

19 hours ago, saber5055 said:

Or trying to get in her pants again. A "shoulder rub" is an invasion of personal space, not comforting. Try using your words, Wyatt, not your handsy hands if you want to "comfort" someone.

A lot of people, myself included, would interpret a shoulder rub as a comforting gesture given the situation.  It was not a METOO moment.  Lucy was right to call Wyatt on his behavior in this episode, but this particular bit was innocuous.

[shapeshifter]

A problem with Wyatt rubbing Lucy's shoulder is: Would he do it in front of Jessica?

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

This is exactly why I hated the idea of Jessica ever coming back, even if it was meant more for being a secret Rittenhouse agent than a Lyatt cockblocker.

A noticeable part of the show is now very similar to daytime soap operas, and it pains me to see such dedicated discussion towards things and different interpretations of scenes/actions.  That could have been avoided if they had not had Lucy & Wyatt "go all the way" beforehand.

I can't express my displeasure enough for the genius who came up with the plan to have Lyatt sleep together and then immediately bring Jessica back (or informing Wyatt of her 'not dead' status) in the same episode, those two events literally not even 10 minutes of air time apart from each other.  If that's not 'Advanced Soap Opera Tactics 101', I don't know what is.

[legaleagle53]

11 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

Damn, I thought he was closer to my age than that.  But yeah, a really, really good 45.  I was thinking a fantastic 48/49, but that's wishful thinking. ;-)

When was the Watergate episode?  Shortly before it hit the press?  So around 1974.  Maybe they're making Flynn 42?

Nope.  Flynn was born in 1972.  What's confusing people is they're assuming that he goes back to 1981 along with Lucy, Wyatt, and Rufus. 

Spoiler

He doesn't.  He sits this one out while Jiya takes the fourth seat in the lifeboat.

[Toothbrush]

Agree that Emma is manipulating Nicholas and attracted to the power he has within Rittenhouse and what it could mean for her. She did her loyalty time being stuck in the 1880s for a decade. Add a Rittenhouse royalty baby to the mix & she feels she will be gold. 

On 4/29/2018 at 10:10 PM, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

Surprised that it was just talking between Lucy & Flynn.  Surprised in a good way, so kudos to TPTB for that.  And of course, Flynn had to flex his machismo in fueling Wyatt's imagination and anger by not denying the insinuation that he & Lucy took a trip to Poundtown.

I didn't think anything would happen because Wucy is clearly endgame, and I had a feeling the show runners didn't want to add another side to the Lucy/Wyatt/Jessica love triangle. Although if Jessica is indeed somehow involved with Rittenhouse, I can see Lucy & Flynn getting together & then Lucy conflicted when she can have Wyatt after all. Not that I want this to happen mind you, but between dead wives coming back pretty much the instant Wyatt has moved on, said formerly dead wife possibly working for the enemy, and everyone lurking outside doors just in time to misinterpret what's going on, this season has been chock full of soap tropes. 

On 4/30/2018 at 11:31 AM, saber5055 said:

As soon as Alice got in trouble, I'm thinking no problem, Lucy can give the speech. So I'm glad the show switched it up and had Grace give it. I've never heard of Alice or Grace, of course, because they were women. I hope women and people of color are taught in history classes now because their achievements were all ignored when I was in school.

Meanwhile, Flynn OWNED this episode. He actually smiled once, quickly! when Lucy was leaving his room. Yowee. Then on the trip, he's the kind of guy I want with me always, unlike the useless Wyatt. He (and Connor) are my favorite characters. Lucy, too, as long as she keeps telling Wyatt to step off.

I had heard of Alice Paul, but did not learn about her in school; probably in a documentary about the suffrage movement. Come to find out we have the same birthday, give or take almost a century! I love Flynn & Connor too. 

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, Toothbrush said:

chock full of soap tropes.

Great turn of phrase!

Rittenhouse would have Jessica's image in their files even  if they were just plotting to bring her back to sideline/distract Wyatt. Silly Rittenhouse doesn't realize that they should be trying to keep Wyatt on board both because he distracts Lucy and because he's not a very good soldier—especially compared to Flynn. 

[proserpina65]

10 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

Nope.  Flynn was born in 1972.  What's confusing people is they're assuming that he goes back to 1981 along with Lucy, Wyatt, and Rufus. 

  Reveal hidden contents

He doesn't.  He sits this one out while Jiya takes the fourth seat in the lifeboat.

I actually wasn't referring to next week's episode.  I was talking about last season's Watergate episode, but when I looked it up, I saw that it was set in 1972, so I'll assume it was before Flynn was born in that year, not after.

[Palomar]

On ‎5‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 7:37 PM, shapeshifter said:

Having lived out a scenario like Lucy's more times than I can count—well, not with wives coming back from the dead, but old girlfriends showing up and new ones too—it's somewhat interesting to see it play out as an observer, including reading y'all's reactions to Lucy's actions.
Anyway, I just think Lucy didn't want to play second fiddle.

Lucy realized Wyatt HAD to try it again with Jessica.  He would have always wondered "what if" if he hadn't.  I'm sure reality will be forthcoming soon (even if Jessica isn't a mole) that he had romanticized their relationship, especially since they were having problems.  Another thing, if Jessica isn't dirty, they have to give her more to do than hang in the bunker all day.

[LJones41]

1 hour ago, Palomar said:

Lucy realized Wyatt HAD to try it again with Jessica.  He would have always wondered "what if" if he hadn't.  I'm sure reality will be forthcoming soon (even if Jessica isn't a mole) that he had romanticized their relationship, especially since they were having problems.  Another thing, if Jessica isn't dirty, they have to give her more to do than hang in the bunker all day.

 

 

The problem is not that Lucy realized that Wyatt HAD to try it again with with Jessica.  The problem is that Wyatt made that decision the moment he laid eyes upon Jessica.  And yet, he continues to behave as if he expects Lucy to wait on the sidelines, just in case it doesn't work out with Jessica.  Like she was some kind of spare tire to be used, in case one went flat.  His behavior to her growing friendship with Flynn seemed to make this obviously clear.

 

It doesn't matter to me whether Jessica is Rittenhouse or not.  Wyatt has no right treating Lucy as a spare tire.

Edited May 3, 2018 by LJones41

[iMonrey]

Quote

I can't express my displeasure enough for the genius who came up with the plan to have Lyatt sleep together and then immediately bring Jessica back (or informing Wyatt of her 'not dead' status) in the same episode, those two events literally not even 10 minutes of air time apart from each other.  If that's not 'Advanced Soap Opera Tactics 101', I don't know what is.

And everybody (here) saw it coming too. People were predicting that's exactly what would happen back in Season 1.

I'm also frustrated by the lack of conversation about the different timelines because, technically, this is not Wyatt's Jessica. This is Jessica from a different timeline. Good Spock and Evil Spock are not the same person on Star Trek, they are two different versions of the same person in different parallel worlds. So why is Jessica the same Jessica? (People who watched Sliders would be more familiar with this territory. Presumably, there are so many different timelines now, as a result of all the time traveling, you could visit any one of them, snatch various versions of Wyatt and bring them to our timeline and have two Wyatts. That's basically what they've done with Jessica and they're acting like she's the same Jessica. She's not.)

[LJones41]

Because this is how Jessica would have become after spending another six years married to a man whom she found increasingly frustrating.  But she is still Jessica.  And we really don't know what Jessica used to be like before her death in the previous timeline.

[Stuffy]

21 hours ago, Toothbrush said:

 

I had heard of Alice Paul, but did not learn about her in school; probably in a documentary about the suffrage movement. Come to find out we have the same birthday, give or take almost a century! I love Flynn & Connor too. 

I don't remember learning about the suffragettes in school either which seems like a big thing to skip in our history. I learned about Alice Paul from a movie on HBO called Iron Jawed Angels. Hillary Swank played Alice Paul.  While it wasn't perfect, it really opened my eyes to what the suffragettes went through. Then like Timeless does it led me to do more research. I definitely don't take voting for granted and try to vote as often as possible. I especially never miss the major local or national elections. 

Edited May 4, 2018 by Stuffy

[legaleagle53]

8 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I'm also frustrated by the lack of conversation about the different timelines because, technically, this is not Wyatt's Jessica. This is Jessica from a different timeline. Good Spock and Evil Spock are not the same person on Star Trek, they are two different versions of the same person in different parallel worlds. So why is Jessica the same Jessica? (People who watched Sliders would be more familiar with this territory. Presumably, there are so many different timelines now, as a result of all the time traveling, you could visit any one of them, snatch various versions of Wyatt and bring them to our timeline and have two Wyatts. That's basically what they've done with Jessica and they're acting like she's the same Jessica. She's not.)

There are no "different timelines."  The showrunners and the writers have expressly rejected that theory and stated that the same timeline simply keeps being overwritten.  The time travelers remember the most recent version of the timeline because they can't be directly affected by the overwrite as long as they're traveling through time.

[thuganomics85]

Rufus and Flynn... err, "John McClane" and "Hans Gruber" was a team-up I never knew I wanted.  Accompanied by a temporary ally with Emma.  I'm sure Rufus would totally disagree with me though!

Enjoyed the mission and delving into the Women's Suffrage movement.  Not familiar with Grace Humiston or Alice Paul, so that was kind of interesting to see.  Interesting though that episode does end with a major change, by Alice no longer being as significant due to getting murdered before she can make her big speech, and Grace getting the honor instead.

Wyatt, buddy?  Jealously is not a good look for you, my friend.  To be fair, I do believe a lot of it is because it was Flynn of all people, but even then, I suspect he would still get possessive over the idea of Lucy moving on.  You can't have both, Wyatt, and you decided to try again with Jessica, so suck it up.  That said, I wasn't bothered by his attempt to comfort Lucy, because it seemed sincere, and he backed off as soon as Lucy told him not to touch her.

Similarly, Rufus was being a dick and a half with Jiya at the beginning, but I can understand why he was freaking out, and he was apologetic at the end.  But he really needs to learn that he can't blame her anytime he hears something in her visions that he doesn't like.

Mason is starting to become the unsung hero of this show.

Emma's getting a bit more interesting.  Wouldn't be opposed to her taking over as a big baddie.  Annie Wershing is awesome.

And, sure enough, it looks like something shady might be going down with Jessica and Rittenhouse.

[Clanstarling]

On 5/3/2018 at 10:53 AM, iMonrey said:

And everybody (here) saw it coming too. People were predicting that's exactly what would happen back in Season 1.

I'm also frustrated by the lack of conversation about the different timelines because, technically, this is not Wyatt's Jessica. This is Jessica from a different timeline. Good Spock and Evil Spock are not the same person on Star Trek, they are two different versions of the same person in different parallel worlds. So why is Jessica the same Jessica? (People who watched Sliders would be more familiar with this territory. Presumably, there are so many different timelines now, as a result of all the time traveling, you could visit any one of them, snatch various versions of Wyatt and bring them to our timeline and have two Wyatts. That's basically what they've done with Jessica and they're acting like she's the same Jessica. She's not.)

 

On 5/3/2018 at 11:04 AM, LJones41 said:

Because this is how Jessica would have become after spending another six years married to a man whom she found increasingly frustrating.  But she is still Jessica.  And we really don't know what Jessica used to be like before her death in the previous timeline.

Multiple timelines, or overwritten timelines, Jessica is not the same woman Wyatt remembers - and (correct me if I'm wrong, because I truly don't remember), we only have her word for it that she and Wyatt were married at all. If she's a Rittenhouse plant in this new timeline, she could just be feeding him a story.

And I sure didn't miss how she gave Wyatt a huge, long kiss, in front of Lucy and all, when they returned from the mission.

That said, Wyatt can shut the hell up when it comes to Lucy. Flynn's right, Lucy's a grown woman who can make her own decisions. I don't care how agonized he is (and I believe he is), he has no right to behave as if she belongs to him.

Mrs. Sherlock standing up and giving the pivotal speech that launches the women's right to vote is the way I see historical figures during times of big cultural upheaval. Kill the one you know about, and another will rise up in their place. Which is why I think the whole killing Hitler thing wouldn't work - someone else would rise to the top - as that movement was already ripe - and we at least know how Hilter's version ended up. Who knows, someone new could make it even worse. A classic "the devil you know" situation, in my book.

[mythoughtis]

On 5/3/2018 at 10:38 AM, LJones41 said:

 

 

The problem is not that Lucy realized that Wyatt HAD to try it again with with Jessica.  The problem is that Wyatt made that decision the moment he laid eyes upon Jessica.  And yet, he continues to behave as if he expects Lucy to wait on the sidelines, just in case it doesn't work out with Jessica.  Like she was some kind of spare tire to be used, in case one went flat.  His behavior to her growing friendship with Flynn seemed to make this obviously clear.

 

It doesn't matter to me whether Jessica is Rittenhouse or not.  Wyatt has no right treating Lucy as a spare tire.

There is no shame in Wyatt deciding he had to try with Jessica the minute he laid eyes on her.  She is his wife.  They spoke vows. She’s no longer dead, and in this timeline was never dead.   Wyatt and Lucy shared one night - that doesn’t give her standing over a wife. Now, Jessica may be Rittenhouse and she may be a sleeper agent. That would be a betrayal and Wyatt would then be justified in a divorce- or they may decide they are incompatible and divorce. Until then  Lucy is just the other woman, even though the one night was not cheating. 

As to how Wyatt is acting about Flynn. Wyatt and Lucy share a bond that is highly unusual due to the time travel team. He doesn’t have to pretend he’s never met her or doesn’t care about her.    Now should he physically stop her from being  with Flynn? No- but he doesn’t have to not comment on it and watch his time travel team go to crap. Flynn is known to murder people who get in his way. Anthony for one. 

[legaleagle53]

14 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

 

Multiple timelines, or overwritten timelines, Jessica is not the same woman Wyatt remembers - and (correct me if I'm wrong, because I truly don't remember), we only have her word for it that she and Wyatt were married at all. If she's a Rittenhouse plant in this new timeline, she could just be feeding him a story.

Oh, they're married, all right.  Remember that Wyatt remembers that they were married in the original timeline until she was murdered in 2011.  That part of the timeline up until 2011 is still intact -- only the moment of her murder in 2011 was somehow overwritten so that they've remained married for the entire time since then.  It's why she had divorce papers drawn up and ready for him to sign when he met up with her after returning from the 1941 mission until he talked her out of it by telling her the truth.  It would make no sense for her to divorce someone to whom she was never married.

Edited May 8, 2018 by legaleagle53

[Wordsworth]

I watch this show to see Goran Visnjic emote.  He's the best actor (see him in his "Leverage" episode) for being able to contort his face into an "You're an Idiot" expression when he's speaking to someone who is, in fact, an idiot.

I don't understand Rittenhouse's game plan here.  What is it that they are trying to accomplish?  Where are the pieces to the puzzle that the Hindenburg, Lincoln Assassination, Witch Trials, Werner von Braun and the suffragette movement are all apart of?  Are they trying to prevent the United States from ever existing?  Are they trying to set up a dictatorial U.S.?  What is the end result and how can they possibly guarantee that with all the what ifs of history?

As for Emma...no, I don't lump her in at all with conservative women who people apparently seem to think shouldn't be trusted to vote.  Whether you agree with them or not, they have certain beliefs and sincerely believe that some practices (such as abortion) are wrong.  That doesn't mean they believe all women should be barefoot, pregnant and subject to the whims of a drunken husband.  Emma is more like those people throughout history who rationalize evil because of what evil can do for them and only stop to think about the evil when it affects them personally.  

[Camera One]

I really liked this episode, and it makes me sad that this show might not continue. 

As much as I (still) hate the wife-back-from-the-dead trope, they are getting a few good scenes out of it.  Wyatt was indeed possessive, though I'm glad that Lucy refused to sleep with Flynn.  The actress did a great job with the scene where she told Wyatt that he had no right dictating her life.  Rufus was a jerk blaming Jiya at the beginning for not having specifics in her vision, but I think he made it up at the end.  I think I can see why both of these guys were acting the way they did, and they both realized they were wrong.

I also dislike Flynn and Emma, but Flynn dropped a few great truth bombs while seeing a different side of Emma was interesting (though I still hate that she murdered that guy in cold-blood).  

Lucy inspiring Grace to stand up for womens' rights was awesome.  I was saddened Alice Paul and the Senator were murdered, but what ended up happening was very moving in its own way.  

I love that this show is able to juggle some humorous moments (like with Grace's Sherlock Holmes behavior) with character moments and historical moments.  That scene with Mason and Jiya with the computer chips was nice.  Between this week and last week, they've finally started fleshing out Mason and making him into more of a person.  

[legaleagle53]

2 hours ago, Camera One said:

I really liked this episode, and it makes me sad that this show might not continue. 

As much as I (still) hate the wife-back-from-the-dead trope, they are getting a few good scenes out of it.  Wyatt was indeed possessive, though I'm glad that Lucy refused to sleep with Flynn. 

I don't think Lucy ever intended to sleep with Flynn, and he never asked her to, so there was nothing for her to refuse.  Why do people always assume that whenever an attractive couple get together, it's always automatically going to lead to sex?

[Camera One]

12 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

I don't think Lucy ever intended to sleep with Flynn, and he never asked her to, so there was nothing for her to refuse.  Why do people always assume that whenever an attractive couple get together, it's always automatically going to lead to sex?

Sorry, I actually used the wrong word.  I agree Flynn never asked so Lucy didn't "refuse" (I was going to change that word but I decided not to bother).  The episode was certainly playing up that possibility, since we've seen that happen on soap operas so often before.

Edited May 14, 2018 by Camera One

[legaleagle53]

1 minute ago, Camera One said:

Yeah, I didn't word that very well.  Flynn never asked so Lucy didn't refuse (I was going to change that word but I decided not to bother).  Though the episode was playing up that misunderstanding, since we've seen that happen on soap operas so often before.

And on every sitcom from about 1976 on.

[Camera One]

Just now, legaleagle53 said:

And on every sitcom from about 1976 on.

And I pretty much hate it every time.  So this was certainly refreshing.

[possibilities]

I was annoyed by the suggestion that they did hook up, but wound up glad for the misdirect because it allowed them to have the scene where Flynn told Wyatt to stop treating Lucy like his property and to remember she's his equal, an adult who can do what she wants, and if he has an issue he should talk to her about it, not go behind her back to another man.

[sarthaz]

On 4/30/2018 at 2:54 AM, Dowel Jones said:

The further I got into the episode, I wondered, why was Emma going back there, if the sleeper could handle the job?  It should be too obvious to Rittenhouse that she was trying to cancel the sleeper's mission, but what was her cover to them?

And this is why I just can't get on board with this show. I know it's just an excuse to show us historical figures, but you can't possibly expect me to believe that Rittenhouse would try to take away women's right to vote, thereby irreparably altering the timeline and changing everything. It doesn't even make a tiny bit of sense. The Quantum Leap formula worked because there was no coordinated operation trying to break the timeline for their own personal gain (until the end). Nothing about Rittenhouse makes any damn sense.

[legaleagle53]

54 minutes ago, sarthaz said:

And this is why I just can't get on board with this show. I know it's just an excuse to show us historical figures, but you can't possibly expect me to believe that Rittenhouse would try to take away women's right to vote, thereby irreparably altering the timeline and changing everything. It doesn't even make a tiny bit of sense. The Quantum Leap formula worked because there was no coordinated operation trying to break the timeline for their own personal gain (until the end). Nothing about Rittenhouse makes any damn sense.

Of course Rittenhouse would do that.  Remember who's running Rittenhouse -- a man whose last memory of the world he knew and grew up in was a world in which women didn't even wear slacks, much less vote, and he had no problem with that whatsoever.  One of the first things he'd want to do to re-shape the world the way he thinks it should be is to put women back "in their place" permanently by preventing them from acquiring the right to vote.

[sarthaz]

18 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

Of course Rittenhouse would do that.  Remember who's running Rittenhouse -- a man whose last memory of the world he knew and grew up in was a world in which women didn't even wear slacks, much less vote, and he had no problem with that whatsoever.  One of the first things he'd want to do to re-shape the world the way he thinks it should be is to put women back "in their place" permanently by preventing them from acquiring the right to vote.

Except all the people running his operation are women, including the ones who retrieved him from the past. Take away women's rights, and who goes back in time to get him? Nonsense.

[legaleagle53]

28 minutes ago, sarthaz said:

Except all the people running his operation are women, including the ones who retrieved him from the past. Take away women's rights, and who goes back in time to get him? Nonsense.

You forget how enthralled Emma was with Nicholas up until the moment that she found out what he was up to with this particular mission.  There are plenty of Rittenhouse women like her who would happily fall on their swords for someone like Nicholas just because he told them to.  And don't forget that the sleeper in 1919 was a woman who was posing as a suffragist.  If she had succeeded in her mission to prevent passage of the 19th Amendment, she'd find herself without any power upon returning to 2018.  Rittenhouse had either completely brainwashed her to the point that she didn't care about the consequences or blackmailed her into complying, as is Rittenhouse's apparent M.O. with its more recalcitrant sleepers.

[sarthaz]

On 5/26/2018 at 8:00 PM, legaleagle53 said:

You forget how enthralled Emma was with Nicholas up until the moment that she found out what he was up to with this particular mission.  There are plenty of Rittenhouse women like her who would happily fall on their swords for someone like Nicholas just because he told them to.  And don't forget that the sleeper in 1919 was a woman who was posing as a suffragist.  If she had succeeded in her mission to prevent passage of the 19th Amendment, she'd find herself without any power upon returning to 2018.  Rittenhouse had either completely brainwashed her to the point that she didn't care about the consequences or blackmailed her into complying, as is Rittenhouse's apparent M.O. with its more recalcitrant sleepers.

I buy the brainwashing women into doing his bidding; I don't buy that his bidding is to take away rights from women as a whole. His family legacy is all women, including those who retrieved him from the past. If that mission succeeded, who goes back in the past to get him?  Holy paradoxes, Batman.  Even if he's a raging misogynist, he only stands to lose by disrupting women's suffrage. It just doesn't make any sense to me.

[legaleagle53]

16 hours ago, sarthaz said:

I buy the brainwashing women into doing his bidding; I don't buy that his bidding is to take away rights from women as a whole. His family legacy is all women, including those who retrieved him from the past. If that mission succeeded, who goes back in the past to get him?  Holy paradoxes, Batman.  Even if he's a raging misogynist, he only stands to lose by disrupting women's suffrage. It just doesn't make any sense to me.

Insane people never do, except to themselves.

[Bethanne]

On 4/29/2018 at 11:44 PM, LittleIggy said:

John McLane and Hans Gruber! ?

@phalange You play Neko Atsume, too?

 

I loved that, and also “I’m Ally McBeal and he’s Johnny Cochran.” :)

Edited June 27, 2018 by Bethanne

[STOPSHOUTING]

On 5/25/2018 at 10:25 PM, sarthaz said:

And this is why I just can't get on board with this show. I know it's just an excuse to show us historical figures, but you can't possibly expect me to believe that Rittenhouse would try to take away women's right to vote, thereby irreparably altering the timeline and changing everything. It doesn't even make a tiny bit of sense. The Quantum Leap formula worked because there was no coordinated operation trying to break the timeline for their own personal gain (until the end). Nothing about Rittenhouse makes any damn sense.

This. The only thing Rittenhouse ever successfully took down was Timeless. 

The very idea that an org that we've seen is almost entirely run by women, at least in the present time, would want to eliminate women's right to vote is almost as dumb as the idea that, if women hadn't earned the right to vote in 1919, we'd still be without it in 2018. Sure. That's how history, and the world, works. Stop progress in one moment, and it never, ever comes up again. Done and dusted. 

Edited June 27, 2018 by STOPSHOUTING

[legaleagle53]

14 hours ago, STOPSHOUTING said:

This. The only thing Rittenhouse ever successfully took down was Timeless. 

The very idea that an org that we've seen is almost entirely run by women, at least in the present time, would want to eliminate women's right to vote is almost as dumb as the idea that, if women hadn't earned the right to vote in 1919, we'd still be without it in 2018. Sure. That's how history, and the world, works. Stop progress in one moment, and it never, ever comes up again. Done and dusted. 

 

Carol wasn't running Rittenhouse at that point, and neither were Emma and Jessica.  Nicholas was in charge, and he had already basically sidelined Carol because of her refusal to eliminate Lucy as a threat to Rittenhouse.  It doesn't matter that Emma and Carol wouldn't have signed off on his plan to eliminate women's suffrage -- it was what Nicholas wanted done, period, and he expected nothing but unquestioning obedience, which is why he even told Emma that she was only there to activate the sleepers and let them carry out the assignment.  It simply never occurred to him that Emma herself would sabotage the mission, because she'd already sworn allegiance to him while Carol wouldn't fully commit to taking out Lucy.  That's why 

Spoiler

he was completely blindsided when Emma killed Carol in 1888 San Francisco and then immediately killed him, too.

Edited June 28, 2018 by legaleagle53

[statsgirl]

Nicholas really doesn't sound like the sharpest pencil in the box, especially compared to Carol and Emma.  Maybe if Emma had left him in charge, Rittenhouse would have destroyed itself before they took over the world.