S03.E18: The Good, The Bad and The Cuddly

[Sakura12]

Beebo Sara. Lol 

 

[Aeryn13]

I was a bit spoiled before watching it and worried because I read some people saying it was too silly. However, I have to say I loved it. 

Yes, Mallus was ultimately just a generic, ugly CGI creature and pretty much a letdown after the build-up over the Season. But we already saw that in the penultimate episode. Still, that fight with Beebo was EPIC. That bycicle kick? The "come and get me" gesture? Amazing. And the big CGI!Beebo looked pretty good. 

I thought Rip`s maybe death-scene was well done. As was the return of Helen and Jax. 

Jonah and Zari would make a cute couple, I ship it. 

Even Ray and Norah had some fun chemistry again.

Darkh gets a kinda-redemptional death. I will miss him, his scenery- chewing was enjoyable to me. But they really shouldn`t bring him back again. 

What brings my rating down a bit was that the episode really has so many juicy little tidbits in it but because of the breakneak pace a lot of them were too rushed. This should have been a two-parter. 

Glad, after the wishy-washyness Amaya made a choice to stick with Zambesi now. I really like the character (and the actress) and I didn`t particularly want her to leave but this wah-wah-my-destiny stuff got old. Remains to be seen what kind of effect this has on Nate. The character can be fun when they don`t play up the dumb dude-bro persona to 11th.   

This show is currently my brightest spot in the Arrow-verse. I will miss it during hiatus.  

[DearEvette]

I had to re-watch.  I think upon second viewing what really takes the Beebo/Mallus fight over the top for me is the sight of Beebo's fur rippling in the wind.  Also when he put on his mad face.

[KirkB]

3 hours ago, Starry said:

Keiynan is having fun but I don’t think this show is treating him better than The Flash did. He’s still underused. I am not impressed because I was sure Legends was going to do justice to the character. I am also extremely bitter at the elitist undertones and the writers erasing or crapping on the West family. Do better!

See, this is exactly what I was expecting. A speedster is a narrative liability when fighting anyone who isn't also a speedster. They can't be used at even 10% of their potential effectiveness without showing everyone else up and leaving the rest of the cast with nothing to do. I like Keiynan, I do, but Wally is always going to be the first one knocked out. He HAS to be. 

[diebartdie]

1 hour ago, DearEvette said:

I had to re-watch.  I think upon second viewing what really takes the Beebo/Mallus fight over the top for me is the sight of Beebo's fur rippling in the wind.  Also when he put on his mad face.

Right and when THAT Beebo said, "Beebo want cuddles!", that was terrifying! (and hilarious)

[Sakura12]

For me since I don't really care too much about how often they use everyone's powers it's more about how he's used as a character. Wally should be more than his powers. And since he joined late he'd only get a little to do. But what we did get was closure on his relationship with Jesse and him getting to have some fun and make new friends. He even got to relax in Aruba for a little bit. I'm sure next season he'll get a centic episode like everyone else. He never would get to do any of that on that Flash. 

Does his family on the Flash even know he joined the Legends or do they still think he's finding himself in China?  They didn't notice when he was gone last time. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

5 minutes ago, diebartdie said:

Right and when THAT Beebo said, "Beebo want cuddles!", that was terrifying! (and hilarious)

No, no! He said: "BEEBO WANT CUDDDDDDDDLES!!!!!" Then went all BEEBO SMASH!!!!!

Me: "Puny Demon." ????????

Edited April 11, 2018 by GHScorpiosRule

[Barlowe]

The Beebo fight was ridiculous but immensely enjoyable.

I'm glad Rip's death was put right at the beginning.

Frankly I could do without any of the romantic pairings. They all feel forced

Edited April 11, 2018 by Lilacly

[johntfs]

8 hours ago, Starry said:

Keiynan is having fun but I don’t think this show is treating him better than The Flash did. He’s still underused. I am not impressed because I was sure Legends was going to do justice to the character. I am also extremely bitter at the elitist undertones and the writers erasing or crapping on the West family. Do better!

He's been on the show for seven episodes and we've already gotten more personal context about him than we got from 2 and a third seasons on The Flash.  Plus he entered right when the action/plot were heating up.  Give it time.  I think you'll like what you see, Wally-wise at least, next season.

[tennisgurl]

Wally, power wise, isnt being used a whole lot better than he was in The Flash, but Wally as a character is being used much better, I think. Wally was priactically a background character on Flash who just existed to be Barry's backup, but here, he actually seems to be getting an arc set up, and he is getting a lot of play as a person who does stuff and interacts with the characters and stuff. Plus, he came in towards the end of the season, so I am interested to see what they do next season with him. 

Plus, the show in general doesn't have the characters use powers as much as they probably should, but budgets gonna budget!

[Starry]

To be clear, I wasn’t talking about the powers but the writing for Wally as a person. I love that he has lighthearted banter with the team and that they treat him as a real member but I don’t like that this Wally has called Amaya a “basic bitch” and never apologized to her. He got closure when it comes to his relationship but the script was full of harmful stereotypes. Wally sees himself as a speed junkie with a drug addict for a mother*. He thinks of himself as not good enough for genius Jesse and her genius of a father.

If the Wally-centric episode includes shout outs to genius Barry/Cisco/Caitlin/Harry/Jesse while Joe gets relegated to the father he clashed with and Iris won’t even get a mention then they can keep their Wally episode. His first appearance on Legends has him complaining that he didn’t fit into Team Flash because the others were genius scientists, except that same team just happens to be lead by his non-scientist sister…

No-one on Flash has mentioned Wally since Christmas which is another problem in itself and the reason why I was excited he was joining Team Legends. Flash has mistreated Wally and I won’t disagree with that. That doesn’t mean that I like it when this show craps on the West family and on the West family only. I think I liked the last episodes better because no Flash character got mentioned. Go figure.

*Let’s not forget Francine raised him as a single mother so way to reduce her to just her addiction.

[Princess Lucky]

36 minutes ago, Starry said:

To be clear, I wasn’t talking about the powers but the writing for Wally as a person. I love that he has lighthearted banter with the team and that they treat him as a real member but I don’t like that this Wally has called Amaya a “basic bitch” and never apologized to her. He got closure when it comes to his relationship but the script was full of harmful stereotypes. Wally sees himself as a speed junkie with a drug addict for a mother*. He thinks of himself as not good enough for genius Jesse and her genius of a father.

If the Wally-centric episode includes shout outs to genius Barry/Cisco/Caitlin/Harry/Jesse while Joe gets relegated to the father he clashed with and Iris won’t even get a mention then they can keep their Wally episode. His first appearance on Legends has him complaining that he didn’t fit into Team Flash because the others were genius scientists, except that same team just happens to be lead by his non-scientist sister…

No-one on Flash has mentioned Wally since Christmas which is another problem in itself and the reason why I was excited he was joining Team Legends. Flash has mistreated Wally and I won’t disagree with that. That doesn’t mean that I like it when this show craps on the West family and on the West family only. I think I liked the last episodes better because no Flash character got mentioned. Go figure.

*Let’s not forget Francine raised him as a single mother so way to reduce her to just her addiction.

I agree with most of this, except I think Legends is trying to undo the damage The Flash has caused. It's true that these things were mentioned early on (as you said, in the last few episodes Wally has been an individual character, without constant mentions of his family and other connections, aside from a Barry-related joke or two), but I think that was the LoT writers attempting to show that Wally had some baggage, even some misconceptions about himself, which he needed to shake. It was a way to give him something to relate to, regarding the other Legends (all of whom are loveable losers but also, you know, legends). I think Wally quickly found a place on the Waverider, and he found a confidence, and those early references were just a way to connect this new Wally to the Flash Wally (who was, I agree, horribly mistreated). I adore Iris (and that's all I'll say about The Flash), but I think Wally should be his own character, and if that means she'll never be mentioned again on LoT, so be it. 

(even better, can't she just move to this show as well and be free? No? Dammit.)

At any rate, I think Wally has formed nice bonds with Nate and Zari, and Sara too, and I am very optimistic about his future as a standalone iconic character (which is what he is. Barry Allen who?). 

As for the "basic bitch" reference, I must admit I thought it was an exaggeration, because Nate is Wally's friend, and he was heartbroken after Amaya ghosted him (to the point of trying to downplay his deep love for her), so Wally was just being extra to stick up for him, as opposed to being genuinely rude. Personally, I didn't think less of Wally when I heard that (but I am biased, because I love him).

[Sakura12]

Sara never mentions or even visits her father in Star City when she's there so it's not just a Wally thing not mentioning existing family members. 

Wally sees himself as a speed junkie with a drug addict for a mother*. He thinks of himself as not good enough for genius Jesse and her genius of a father.

Some of those things were said by the villain to mess with Wally's head, Malice did the same thing with Nate blaming him for his grandfather's death. So I don't see that as a knock on Wally or his family. Wally then stood up and said he didn't see himself that way. And I can see Wally feeling left out of the Flash team since they barely ever gave him anything to do since they had Barry and didn't even notice he was gone . He may get knocked out here because he is too powerful but he is getting things to do and actually be part of a team and contribute when he can just like the rest of them. They all get their time to shine and their time to sit on the bench even Captain Sara sits out. She didn't even get a fight scene in the finale and that is her thing. They can't focus on all the characters all the time. Wally joined late, he'll get more times to shine next season. Plus to me Keiynan looks like he's having so much fun on this show. It's nice getting to see Wally smile and have fun with his new team. 

[BaggythePanther]

Quentin and Laurel have made an appearance though. When they do a Wally centric they can have Iris make an appearance.

[Starry]

4 hours ago, Princess Lucky said:

I agree with most of this, except I think Legends is trying to undo the damage The Flash has caused. It's true that these things were mentioned early on (as you said, in the last few episodes Wally has been an individual character, without constant mentions of his family and other connections, aside from a Barry-related joke or two), but I think that was the LoT writers attempting to show that Wally had some baggage, even some misconceptions about himself, which he needed to shake. It was a way to give him something to relate to, regarding the other Legends (all of whom are loveable losers but also, you know, legends). I think Wally quickly found a place on the Waverider, and he found a confidence, and those early references were just a way to connect this new Wally to the Flash Wally (who was, I agree, horribly mistreated). I adore Iris (and that's all I'll say about The Flash), but I think Wally should be his own character, and if that means she'll never be mentioned again on LoT, so be it.

4 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

Sara never mentions or even visits her father in Star City when she's there so it's not just a Wally thing not mentioning existing family members.

Some of those things were said by the villain to mess with Wally's head, Malice did the same thing with Nate blaming him for his grandfather's death. So I don't see that as a knock on Wally or his family. Wally then stood up and said he didn't see himself that way. And I can see Wally feeling left out of the Flash team since they barely ever gave him anything to do since they had Barry and didn't even notice he was gone .

I am taking this to the Wally West thread on The Flash board.

[kdm07]

5 hours ago, Princess Lucky said:

I agree with most of this, except I think Legends is trying to undo the damage The Flash has caused. It's true that these things were mentioned early on (as you said, in the last few episodes Wally has been an individual character, without constant mentions of his family and other connections, aside from a Barry-related joke or two), but I think that was the LoT writers attempting to show that Wally had some baggage, even some misconceptions about himself, which he needed to shake. It was a way to give him something to relate to, regarding the other Legends (all of whom are loveable losers but also, you know, legends). I think Wally quickly found a place on the Waverider, and he found a confidence, and those early references were just a way to connect this new Wally to the Flash Wally (who was, I agree, horribly mistreated). I adore Iris (and that's all I'll say about The Flash), but I think Wally should be his own character, and if that means she'll never be mentioned again on LoT, so be it. 

(even better, can't she just move to this show as well and be free? No? Dammit.)

I agree with all of this. Caity said the writers like to peep in to see what the viewers want and Iris moving to Legends is near the top of my list. (Won't happen but one can dream).

Wally, like Zari earlier this season, is still figuring out his place on the team. He'll probably feature more (as a character) next season. As for speedster Wally? Take it up with the CW. Most of the Legends are short-changed powerwise because of a lack of budget for the show.

[Maelstrom]

On 4/11/2018 at 9:43 AM, Sakura12 said:

Beebo Sara. Lol 

 

This is exactly what I thought of when I saw Beebo's "come get me" gesture! It's such a Sara move. Except blue and cuddly. ;)

As for Wally...

19 hours ago, johntfs said:

Plus (Wally) entered right when the action/plot were heating up.

This. It really was an odd time to introduce a new character, since the season arc was kicking into its final act and there was no space to devote to a proper intro to Wally. I expect at least one Wally-centric episode next season as well as some sort of personal growth arc.

7 hours ago, Princess Lucky said:

but I think that was the LoT writers attempting to show that Wally had some baggage, even some misconceptions about himself, which he needed to shake. It was a way to give him something to relate to, regarding the other Legends (all of whom are loveable losers but also, you know, legends). I think Wally quickly found a place on the Waverider, and he found a confidence, and those early references were just a way to connect this new Wally to the Flash Wally (who was, I agree, horribly mistreated).

As for the "basic bitch" reference, I must admit I thought it was an exaggeration, because Nate is Wally's friend, and he was heartbroken after Amaya ghosted him (to the point of trying to downplay his deep love for her), so Wally was just being extra to stick up for him, as opposed to being genuinely rude. Personally, I didn't think less of Wally when I heard that (but I am biased, because I love him).

I'm not a Flash viewer, and though I knew of Wally's existence from the crossovers I didn't know anything else about him. So his references to the people back in Central City were helpful to me to get a grasp of his character - and like Princess Lucky basically said, it doesn't necessarily matter if those things were objectively true, what mattered is that Wally thought they were true. Just like Sara in the first season thought herself beyond redemption, even though we the audience could tell that wasn't the case. It sets up a lot for Wally to grow beyond in the coming seasons. And really, at the end of the day, it's the characters that make me love this show. Don't get me wrong, the one-liners, unabashed ridiculousness, and giant world-saving cuddle fights are all pretty awesome, but it's these batshit crazy, lovable characters that keep me coming back.

I can let the "basic bitch" reference slide in this context because A) Wally clearly had no idea that Amaya herself was the woman in question when he said it, so it wasn't a deliberate insult, and B) I do think it was wholly motivated by a desire to be extra supportive/defensive of his buddy.

1 hour ago, kdm07 said:

Wally, like Zari earlier this season, is still figuring out his place on the team.

They did such a fantastic job introducing Zari and showing her journey as she discovers how she fits with the team that I have confidence the writers will do right by Wally's character.

On 4/11/2018 at 10:24 AM, Aeryn13 said:

I really like the character (and the actress) and I didn`t particularly want her to leave but this wah-wah-my-destiny stuff got old. Remains to be seen what kind of effect this has on Nate. The character can be fun when they don`t play up the dumb dude-bro persona to 11th.

Yeah, I was pretty sick of hearing about Amaya's destiny by the end. Hopefully now they can focus on the positive aspects of Nate's character (like his loyalty and his friendships on the team) without the promise of a hook-up with Amaya to distract him and turn him into a dumb frat boy. Seriously though, shouldn't his first leyonga root (sp?) overdose have taught him not to gulp down the entire cup of tea for a second time?! Then again, this is the man who didn't notice Julius Caesar stealing a giant heavy book that Nate was holding, so I guess I should temper my expectations a bit.

I still haven't had a chance to rewatch this, but I will undoubtedly post again once I have!

Edited April 12, 2018 by Maelstrom

[MarkHB]

Re: Nerfing Kid Flash, it comes to mind that this is the show where the captain kept thinking that splitting up Stein and Jax into separate groups on the mission was a good idea....

[jhlipton]

For me the giant Heart of Fluffness (wasn't that a Joseph Conrad novel?) was the best part of the show.  Of course Beebo would explode into a loving boom of blue and white cotton!

On 4/9/2018 at 6:03 PM, Lady Calypso said:

That Mallus vs Beebo fight was awesome. If someone who didn't know the show sat with me for that scene, I don't know how I'd be able to explain it.

There's this Christmas toy that everyone wants, and of course it gets brought back to 1000's Vinland (the viking colony in America) where it convinces Ferya Ericsdotter (Lief Ericson's sister donchaknow) not to conquer America but to return home.  Or something like that..

On 4/9/2018 at 6:37 PM, tennisgurl said:

it allows their personalities to drive the plot, and not vice versa*, and thats why LoT is the best thing the Arrowverse has going for it these days. 

*Unlike some other shows that could remain nameless (Arrow)* 

You misspelled Once Upon A Time.

On 4/10/2018 at 5:50 AM, Sakura12 said:

I know it would've been more expensive to do but it would've been cool to see Beebo using the Legends powers since they were inside him (not like that or maybe they were since Mick considered it an orgy. Lol). I'd love to see Beebo super speeding around Malice or becoming a T-Rex or using Zari's wind tornado or shooting fire out of his giant fluffy hands or even turning into a scary death witch. 

That wouldn't be Beebo though.  Beebo wants CUDDLES!

On 4/10/2018 at 1:06 PM, CloudySky said:

"Charging at Mallus* - Vixen
*Beebo jumping high* - Zari doing her ET flying bikes move and/or Vixen flying

I think you mean Amaya.

On 4/10/2018 at 6:29 PM, call me ishmael said:

I did wonder why Helen didn’t just make all the men in the armies stop fighting. 

PLOT!!!!  It would have made too easy.  It would have been even worse if the men in the army stopped to fight each other.

[KirkB]

I think this has been mentioned, but Helen hasn't been shown to be able to affect large groups of men at once. And anyway, it wouldn't help. Even if she could they might momentarily stop fighting for Mallus but then they'd start fighting each other again for HER.

Wally as a speedster really can't be treated any better on Legends than on Flash. Wally as a character though, away from his dad and sister and being overshadowed by his stepbrother Barry...that's a different story. On Legends there is potential for him to get the character arc and plot he deserves. It doesn't mean it WILL happen since they also have to provide it for Sara, Mick, Ray, Nate, Zari, and whoever else joins the team. But Legends does seem to be more willing to focus on its characters as much or more than just the seasonal arc.

[jhlipton]

1 hour ago, KirkB said:

I think this has been mentioned, but Helen hasn't been shown to be able to affect large groups of men at once. And anyway, it wouldn't help. Even if she could they might momentarily stop fighting for Mallus but then they'd start fighting each other again for HER.

But that would a Good Thing -- far fewer men to fight the legends.  That's why it couldn't happen plot-wise -- all the men in the three armies would fight each other, leaving very few for the Legends to fight.

[Sakura12]

Or because that army was possessed by Malice, Helen's abilities wouldn't work on them. 

[Lugal]

On 4/10/2018 at 6:29 PM, call me ishmael said:

i did wonder why Helen didn’t just make all the men in the armies stop fighting.

She has an influence, but not outright power.  Besides, if a Roman/Viking/pirate with a sword is charging at me, that will get the majority of my attention, no matter how beautiful/hot/awesome the woman is.

[call me ishmael]

4 hours ago, Lugal said:

She has an influence, but not outright power.  Besides, if a Roman/Viking/pirate with a sword is charging at me, that will get the majority of my attention, no matter how beautiful/hot/awesome the woman is.

If they were all swooning over her they wouldn’t have been charging in the first place.  I tend to agree with @jhlipton that it was because 

 

14 hours ago, jhlipton said:

PLOT!!!!

[johntfs]

3 hours ago, call me ishmael said:

If they were all swooning over her they wouldn’t have been charging in the first place.

Maybe Helen's influence over males is diminished when she uses her badass Themyscira fighting skills to kill the holy living fuck out of them.

[legaleagle53]

3 hours ago, johntfs said:

Maybe Helen's influence over males is diminished when she uses her badass Themyscira fighting skills to kill the holy living fuck out of them.

Or perhaps the time she spent living among the Amazons, who would be immune to her influence (as others, including yours truly, have pointed out, it's a passive uncontrollable influence over men that she has rather than an active power that she can really control or use at will), her influence has simply atrophied to the point that it no longer exists. We don't know how long she had been living and training with the Amazons before Ava went to Themiscyra to recruit her as an ally for the Legends.  Since she, like the Amazons, is immortal, she could have been there for years between the time that Zari dropped her off and Ava visited her, and she wouldn't look any older.

Edited April 14, 2018 by legaleagle53

[johntfs]

10 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

Or perhaps the time she spent living among the Amazons, who would be immune to her influence (as others, including yours truly, have pointed out, it's a passive uncontrollable influence over men that she has rather than an active power that she can really control or use at will), her influence has simply atrophied to the point that it no longer exists. We don't know how long she had been living and training with the Amazons before Ava went to Themiscyra to recruit her as an ally for the Legends.  Since she, like the Amazons, is immortal, she could have been there for years between the time that Zari dropped her off and Ava visited her, and she wouldn't look any older.

Or Themyscira has magic stuff too and they used it to remove the curse.  I did notice that the various guys on the Legends and their allies weren't sniffing after Helen this time.

[Wishing Well]

I love everything about LOT and the finale (praise Beebo!) but my favorite thing this whole season WAS the Helen plot in 3.06.  I thought it was going to be hopeless damsel with a curse, and even thought she might be a villain.  Then she had so much depth and development in one episode, and gave great depth to Zari too.  My favorite scene was when they dropped her off in Themyscira, where we all knew they would train her to be an Amazon.  And then SHE CAME BACK to kick ass with the best hair I’ve seen on this show.  

I just love how HASHTAGFEMINISM is portrayed so beautifully in this show.  With women helping a weaker woman find her self worth and becoming a strong warrior.  Or a woman going from being a dead inside assasin to the best team Captain.  Amaya saving her village and learning to make big sacrifices for the good of humanity.  We don’t need a lecture at a strip club by a character no one cares about to appreciate women. 

[legaleagle53]

46 minutes ago, Wishing Well said:

I love everything about LOT and the finale (praise Beebo!) but my favorite thing this whole season WAS the Helen plot in 3.06.  I thought it was going to be hopeless damsel with a curse, and even thought she might be a villain.  Then she had so much depth and development in one episode, and gave great depth to Zari too.  My favorite scene was when they dropped her off in Themyscira, where we all knew they would train her to be an Amazon.  And then SHE CAME BACK to kick ass with the best hair I’ve seen on this show.  

I just love how HASHTAGFEMINISM is portrayed so beautifully in this show.  With women helping a weaker woman find her self worth and becoming a strong warrior.  Or a woman going from being a dead inside assasin to the best team Captain.  Amaya saving her village and learning to make big sacrifices for the good of humanity.  We don’t need a lecture at a strip club by a character no one cares about to appreciate women. 

I have to agree, and I don't know about you, but I would very happily watch the hell out of a spin-off of Helen and the Amazons.  Raise your hand if you agree!

[jhlipton]

The fact that we have several theories as to why Helen's influence didn't work shows that they failed to explain it.  And since it was a big part of her story the first time around, they should have had at least one line to do so.

14 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

I have to agree, and I don't know about you, but I would very happily watch the hell out of a spin-off of Helen and the Amazons.  Raise your hand if you agree!

MEEE!!!!

[johntfs]

7 hours ago, jhlipton said:

The fact that we have several theories as to why Helen's influence didn't work shows that they failed to explain it.  And since it was a big part of her story the first time around, they should have had at least one line to do so.

Maybe there will be a thing next season where Helen's curse has switched sexes, there's an island of Amazon chicks hot for her and the guys have to go undercover in drag to rescue/cure Helen once and for all.  Figure nobody noticed because they were too caught in the Mallus stuff.  I really don't care that much because Beebo l-l-loves us.

Edited April 15, 2018 by johntfs

[jhlipton]

51 minutes ago, johntfs said:

Mayne there will be a thing next season where Helen's curse has switched sexes, there's an island of Amazon chicks hot for her and the guys have to go undercover in drag to rescue/cure Helen once and for all.  Figure nobody noticed because they were too caught in the Mallus stuff.  I really don't care that much because Beebo l-l-loves us.

It would be worth it for Mick in drag!

[johntfs]

17 minutes ago, jhlipton said:

It would be worth it for Mick in drag!

Rory:  Warrior Princess!

[Aeryn13]

On 12.4.2018 at 9:33 PM, Maelstrom said:

This is exactly what I thought of when I saw Beebo's "come get me" gesture! It's such a Sara move. Except blue and cuddly. ;)

And his fierce little "hm" just kills me. The eye movements are the perfect cap. In general, the fighting noises and "hyah"s out of Beebo might be the best thing ever, just because he looks so cuddly and adorable.   

I`m so in love with this entire scene. Is there any show on TV who could pull this off and make it work? I don`t think so. Only Legends embraces the Silver Age comic weirdness and still gives it heart and soul to make it poignant.

[Wishing Well]

Also Kudos to Dom for his face at the end when everyone hugs him.  He looks like he’s being electroshocked and then GET OFF ME!!!

”Are we making a baby”

”Snart and the Professor and those stupid hawk flying chicken people”

MVP of my heart.  

Also, I would like to apologize to Nate for hating him so much last season.  After his therapy safe space session with Damien last episode, he was close to becoming a favorite of mine.  Then we had his closure with Amaya, Voltron, and his very difficult attempt at staying solemn when he was high.  “In-di-vi-duality.  In-di-VIdually” “Shut up”

[Miss Dee]

I'm fanwanking his subconscious didn't want a group hug without Ray there. ?

[Sakura12]

Since they seemed to have spent all their budget on making Beebo. I did like seeing Beebo's angry face turn into a happy face after he accomplished something. After he smacked Malice he had this cute smile on his face. 

I've seen some hate that the Beebo vs Malice was too silly, for me however that's exactly what this show is. Silly, fun, entertainment. It's the only show where I know I won't be weighed down with continuous angst and drama. It's the only show that brings a smile to my face after every episode ends. They do tackle serious issues, I mean 3 of their team members died. They just don't let that destroy them. They move on and honor the memories of their fallen teammates. They are allowed to smile and enjoy their victories (no matter how short lived they are). That's why I like this show. 

[MarkHB]

On 4/16/2018 at 9:05 AM, Sakura12 said:

Since they seemed to have spent all their budget on making Beebo.

One of the articles leading into last week quoted Phil Klemmer as saying that the goal of a finale is to spend all the money, as they aren't getting credit for savings next season.

[Solace247]

1 hour ago, MarkHB said:

One of the articles leading into last week quoted Phil Klemmer as saying that the goal of a finale is to spend all the money, as they aren't getting credit for savings next season.

Legends budget is limited so Ray, Nate, and Firestorm are often nerfed/conveniently occupied at various times during the season. It's an unfortunate reality. I do think that having a villain that required extensive cgi as well as Beebo led to this happening more frequently this season. I'm a little worried that with the addition of Constantine next season and the whole dimensional monsters/demons bent that the finale seemed to suggest that cgi is going to be relied upon even more next season leading to even more nerfing/sidelining next season.

[MarkHB]

6 hours ago, Solace247 said:

Legends budget is limited so Ray, Nate, and Firestorm are often nerfed/conveniently occupied at various times during the season.

Indeed.  I was always baffled (at least from an in-world perspective) by Sara's tendency to split up Jax and Stein when going into the field. 

[Sakura12]

I'm not one that really cares that they don't use their powers all time because this is on a tv show budget, it's understandable. What I don't get is why they continue to add characters with powers that require CGI. There are heroes that don't have powers that would be cheaper. With Constantine they may get a way with doing some practical effects like floating objects and chants more than using his magic lights. The demons on the other hand (unless they are going the Supernatural way and making them have human forms) are going to eat into the budget. With Wally they can use the recycled footage of the speed lights like they do on the Flash all the time. 

[Solace247]

6 hours ago, MarkHB said:

Indeed.  I was always baffled (at least from an in-world perspective) by Sara's tendency to split up Jax and Stein when going into the field. 

Yeah, the Legends already operate on luck. I'd like to at least keep some of the reasoning for decisions logical so even if characters are nerfed, the decision makers are given good in story reasons for their choices. Call me old fashioned. ;)

 

5 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I'm not one that really cares that they don't use their powers all time because this is on a tv show budget, it's understandable. What I don't get is why they continue to add characters with powers that require CGI. There are heroes that don't have powers that would be cheaper. With Constantine they may get a way with doing some practical effects like floating objects and chants more than using his magic lights. The demons on the other hand (unless they are going the Supernatural way and making them have human forms) are going to eat into the budget. With Wally they can use the recycled footage of the speed lights like they do on the Flash all the time. 

Honestly, it doesn't bother me all that much, but I think the show does suffer with the addition of fully cgi characters.

As for additional cast, I wonder about their choices as well. Zari is a great character now and thankfully her powers are more practical effect than digital effect. As you've said, Wally's effects can easily be inserted into the footage. I do think they need to get a little more creative with practical effects and cast powers in order to showcase more than just actors in rigs getting blown backwards. I always find it funny, for instance, that Mick's flame gun never really burns anything--it blows people back (like Zari's powers) or makes them disappear. I think going forward with cast additions, as a writer/showrunner you need to temper your desire for "cool things" and think of the ongoing costs involved with introducing characters with "cool" powers. Is it going to be a detriment to your established characters and the show (or show's budget) in the long term?

Having seen the whole season, I think I would have saved the money spent on ghosts the Elvis episode (my least favourite, I admit) and maybe made another bottle episode for our characters. Or used the totems a little more so they seemed a little less like McGuffins and they could have related them to our characters a little more. Anyways, I'm not a writer, so what do I know.

As for Constantine and the MOTWs... hopefully they find other ways than cgi/nerfing to endanger our team. I actually wouldn't mind more practical effects in this area. It would make me more confident in the direction, actually. I'm not a fan of Supernatural so I have no idea if that is done well on that show or not.

[ms.o]

Finally watched the finale!  Did anyone catch watch Mick said about “those flying birds” referring to Season 1 Hawk? I didn’t catch it word for word, but I love that the show is acknowledging weak points of past seasons 

[Solace247]

29 minutes ago, ms.o said:

Finally watched the finale!  Did anyone catch watch Mick said about “those flying birds” referring to Season 1 Hawk? I didn’t catch it word for word, but I love that the show is acknowledging weak points of past seasons 

He called them "stupid hawk flying chicken people." He was talking about how Rip picked them because they were a team of nobodies.

[legaleagle53]

That's one of the things that I love most about this show (aside from its general corny, balls-to-the-wall insanity).  It's clearly not afraid to make fun of itself!

[Sakura12]

I love when they throw shade at season 1. 

[ms.o]

22 hours ago, Solace247 said:

He called them "stupid hawk flying chicken people." He was talking about how Rip picked them because they were a team of nobodies.

Thank you!! 

[lurker22]

On 4/20/2018 at 12:42 PM, Solace247 said:

He called them "stupid hawk flying chicken people." He was talking about how Rip picked them because they were a team of nobodies.

I liked how it was an almost exact callback to the S1 scene, where Mick said the Hawk people always made him think of chickens, and Sara looked at him funny, lol.

[Miss Dee]

These writers are great with callbacks. I hope we get a callback to the Mick/Ray trust fall eventually, one where Mick *does* trust Ray with something huge or impossible and Ray comes through...bribery not required!

[treasaigh]

I spent 3 days binging season 3.  Totally fun way to spend 3 days!  But now I'm left with a couple questions.  I see quite a bit of support for Constantine/Gary.  While I find them a totally fun couple, has there been any indication that Gary is into guys?  I remember feeling he had quite the crush on Ava, but guys?  He could be bi of course.  Though I suspect Wally is going to end up being bi with a male partner.  Maybe they are building to a Wally/Constantine relationship?  I hope not, Wally seems way to young for Wally.  Bi representation is strong on this show.  

While I LOVED seeing Helen, her effect on men was totally ignored this episode.  If nothing else Jonah should have been smitten with Helen, and not Zari.

I'm not buying this as the final end for Rip.  No body?  Time bomb?  He's totally lost in time somewhere.

Finally, how can we have Ava and Constantine back as regulars in season 4, but no mention of Gary coming back?  I spent about three minutes looking and can't find any indication that Gary will be back in season 4.  As Gary is my favorite of the new people in season 3, I really hope he comes back.