Spoilers and Speculation: Clink Boom and Cheese Fondue

[tallyrand]

This show could care less about Liz fans and that's been true since she came to port Charles.

[Badsamaritan]

Ok, rant on (because twitter only allows me 140 characters and I'm not #zola; however, Uncle Frank could take a tip or 2 from how that ho told her story - suspense, drama, bad guys, rootable characters, I mean damn, we cared about Jarrett!)

Ahem, sorry. My God, how can 1 man be so completely tone deaf to all good reason and storytelling? Is he being paid by the amount of words that mean nothing that he can get writers to shove into an episode? I am completely convinced this craptastic, never ending Jason saga is all Frank. Why in the name of all that is holy would you let your new writing team drag this shitfest out one single second longer? And just which fucking moron is letting him do it? Ratings are being chased off the edge of a cliff, FV is herding viewers AWAY like it's his job, and not one fan base is happy. Jiz should've NEVER been the story, because it hasn't been about Jason at all. This is Liez's story, and it's not to prop Jasam. They've barely had any POV whatsoever. Characters like Lucky and Laura and now dead Emily have been forced to go along with these two whackadoos and their dumbass lies. And Liez 'confronting' Sam?? WTF does FV think wants to watch ANY of that nonsense? WHY should ANYONE watch one more minute of this trash ass shit? A year! A fucking YEAR, and still no end in sight! Fuck you, Frank, you stupid, triflin, arrogant, shit eating, punk ass mother fucker. Bitch.

[Fylaki]

I wonder if the Jason crap has something to do with Frank's loyalty to Ron, in that Ron's Opus must be finished before we can move on. I think that ABC/Disney made a serious mistake in firing Ron but keeping Frank, they are a team. One does not fire Batman and expect Robin to be good. They both need to go

[Tiger]

Robin: hello? Patrick oh thank god! I finally got this cell to wor.....

Patrick: LIAR! How dare you tell me Jason was dead! If you hadn't lied, we might not be in this mess! We might have figured out jake was Jason sooner!

Robin: Wha...Jake? Jason's there? What about Helena, she has me loc.....

Patrick: you are incredible! It's ALL ABOUT YOU! How about my pain? Now Sam is going to leave me!

robin: Patrick listen....(muffled scream in the background, phone clicks off)

Patrick: did that bitch hang up on me?

Heh. I want Robin to use lines from that new Adelle song in response to whatever Patrick says. Edited November 7, 2015 by Tiger

[Tiger]

I'd love for Anna to be able to finally take her down. But any Scorpio -- Robin, Anna, Robert, and even Emma -- have just cause for kicking her butt and sticking her in a hole.

Exactly! You all know I love me some Anders Hove & Kathleen Gati, but Faison & Dr. O need to have one final story that ends with Robert & Anna killing them for real to protect everyone.

The 2013 story should have resulted in Faison's real death with Dr. O becoming the new top baddie, but unfortunately they made Robert look like an idiot by sticking Cesar into a hole, while Dr. O was turned into a comedic supporting character.

I think Victor's part ran its course as it was originally supposed to. Wasn't the oh-so-big-bad, the even worse than a Cassadine! father supposed to be Bill Eckert? As if. But when Ron got pissy that people figured out it was Bill Eckert and changed it to Luke with a Dark Side, he scrapped the back story about who Nathan's father was. 

I agree about Bill being Nathan's father. I also think he was going to he Rosalie's father too. But I still think something happened the scenes to jettison whatever was originally planned for Victor and by extension Dr. O, something that had nothing to do with Ron changing it from Bill to Dark Lewq.

And on that note, it's interesting to me that in the last few weeks almost every show I watch currently airing new eps have engaged in plot twists or reveals that a large segment of at least the on-line audience guessed. But all those correct guesses didn't lessen the reveals and/or twists. With good writing, a guessed reveal and/or twist is almost more satisfying because as a viewer you get invested in looking at every breadcrumb the writers drop along the way.

In this particular case, the blatant re-write destroyed so many stories and ultimately ruined one of the most well-known characters in daytime history.

Only when he was "wearing" a Duke mask. He introduced himself on Halloween of 2012.

I genuinely would have loved a scene where MAC & FELICIA explained that that Duke wasn't really Duke but some other guy in a WSB!Mask.

[Tiger]

I wonder if the Jason crap has something to do with Frank's loyalty to Ron, in that Ron's Opus must be finished before we can move on. I think that ABC/Disney made a serious mistake in firing Ron but keeping Frank, they are a team. One does not fire Batman and expect Robin to be good. They both need to go

Part of me genuinely wonders if Frank has been given orders to eviscerate GH so that ABC is "forced" to cancel it. But then you look at the struggles of View & Chew, and that it has been extremely difficult to launch any new successful daytime show in years. And I also genuinely wonder what ABC would replace it with.

FABLife is a total failure. And allegedly Robin, George, and Lara have all said "no" to another hour of GMA. So I guess they could cede another hour to the affiliates, but that's a loss of a revenue source for the network. So I honestly don't know what ABC is or is not doing or trying to do.

[Harmony233]

Honestly I'm baffled by some of FV descions.THey knew they was going to up aganist Days 50th and this is the best they could come up with.

Honestly I'm baffled by some of FV descions.THey knew they was going to up aganist Days 50th and this is the best they could come up with.

[yowsah1]

This is Liez's story, and it's not to prop Jasam.

There is absolutely nothing about this story that would appeal to a Liz fan in any way, shape or form whatsoever.

Congratulations, GH! You have designed a story so shitastical that even the fan base it was designed to pander to is going, "Hey, don't look at us, the body was cold when it landed in our yard!"

[mybabyaidan]

I don't think it will drag out much longer.  If what Becky tweeted the other day has to do with the lie (#carlyvselizabeth) I think the reveal of the lie will be the Thanksgiving cliffhanger.  It lines up with the shooting schedule.

[Badsamaritan]

While I didn't originally hate Liez with the white hot heat of a thousand nuns like I do now, there's a very vocal fan base on social media that believes fervently that this is a liason love story for the ages, that Liez is the heroine for saving Jason from his old life, that's it their time, and Jason will ultimately choose her and thank her for loving him enough to keep him safe. Serious biz. And Becky live tweeted this week and name checked the '16 year history' thing and alluded to Jason actually being torn even after hearing the truth of what she's done, so they're not seeing Jasam propping either. They think it's finally their true love story being told.

[LeftPhalange]

While I didn't originally hate Liez with the white hot heat of a thousand nuns like I do now, there's a very vocal fan base on social media that believes fervently that this is a liason love story for the ages, that Liez is the heroine for saving Jason from his old life, that's it their time, and Jason will ultimately choose her and thank her for loving him enough to keep him safe. Serious biz. And Becky live tweeted this week and name checked the '16 year history' thing and alluded to Jason actually being torn even after hearing the truth of what she's done, so they're not seeing Jasam propping either. They think it's finally their true love story being told.

 

I mean, sure, if you're willing to ignore the fact that Liez had to lie and manipulate Jason and that the only reason he's with her is because he has no memory of his wife and son. I guess these fans are OK with Liez crossing all kinds of ethical and moral lines and having sex with a man who is being denied the right to make a fully informed decision.  

[tallyrand]

Fans can like whatever they like for whatever reason, no? All of us, I'm sure, have liked characters with questionable morals and couples that are utterly destructive. For example Luke raped Laura and they are the biggest soap couple of all time.

[LeftPhalange]

Fans can like whatever they like for whatever reason, no? All of us, I'm sure, have liked characters with questionable morals and couples that are utterly destructive. For example Luke raped Laura and they are the biggest soap couple of all time.

 

Fans are free to like whatever they want but I personally don't understand why any fan of Liez would like this story since it makes her look like a horrible person. Liez comes off like a psychotic desperado and there's no getting around that. Why root for a paring that is based on lies and manipulations. If I were a fan of Jiz I wouldn't be in support of them getting together like this.

Edited November 7, 2015 by LeftPhalange

[jsbt]

I liked Jason and Liz back in the day and I can't be bothered with it at all. It's so disgusting.

[Tiger]

Fans are free to like whatever they want but I personally don't understand why any fan of Liez would like this story since it makes her look like a horrible person. Liez comes off like a psychotic desperado and there's no getting around that. Why root for a paring that is based on lies and manipulations. If I were a fan of Jiz I wouldn't be in support of them getting together like this.

As someone who has always been pretty indifferent when it comes to Liz, feels the same about Sam, was tired of the Sam vs. Liz by late '06, and think both deserve better than Jason, I am disgusted that the show has turned a rape survivor into a rapist.

Note, I am not disgusted with Liz, rather what the show has done to her. It is sick. I can't believe there isn't outrage from Liz fans that she is now a rapist, and from Jason, Sam, JaSam, and yes even Liason fans that Jason is being raped. And, I know that's an element that the show won't even pay lip service too even it desperately needs to be addressed.

[Chairperson Meow]

All I wanna say is that I'm with Badsamaritan. Zola outwrote GH, like the past few years. Make her a new writer. I cared about Jarrett too.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I am disgusted that the show has turned a rape survivor into a rapist.

Note, I am not disgusted with Liz, rather what the show has done to her. It is sick. I can't believe there isn't outrage from Liz fans that she is now a rapist, and from Jason, Sam, JaSam, and yes even Liason fans that Jason is being raped. And, I know that's an element that the show won't even pay lip service too even it desperately needs to be addressed.

 

 

And I wholly disagree with this as well as not understanding it.  Someone needs to explain to me how Liz is a rapist just because she knows who Jason is.  It's not as if Jason wouldn't have slept with her as Jake if she didn't know (or Nik hadn't told her). They were headed that way (even if they'd only gone out once. Slow burn/dating is obsolete on this show).  But her knowing and not telling him and sleeping with him makes her a rapist? I don't buy it.  I'm not saying what she's done isn't wrong, but I certainly don't think she's a rapist. Otherwise, all characters that have had sex with/made love with (choose your own euphemism) with characters who had amnesia, would be rapists; male or female. But because it's Liz, why, let's just hold her to a different standard.  That's what I'm seeing and reading here.

 

And yes, I'm a fan of Liz, but not of Liz and Jason. Well, maybe from years ago. And I've no interest in that character. Not since he broke up with Robin over that SheBeast.

Edited November 8, 2015 by GHScorpiosRule

[OnceSane]

GHSR, I don't think it's because it's "Liz", I think it's because Jason/Jake can't give informed consent.

[KerleyQ]

Jake isn't mentally incompetent in some way.  This isn't the men using Kate/Connie when they knew damn well she was mentally ill.  I don't think an amnesia victim is incapable of giving consent.  Is Liz violating his trust in this bullshit story?  Yes.  But I don't see this being rape.  

[Ambrosefolly]

Slightly in Liz's defense, Jake knows perfectly well that he could have a wife and kids out there, he just doesn't know its Sam, but seems to want to lock Liz down. Everyone gets on Liz for going through with this wedding, but Jake was only discovered a year ago and is still searching for identity. Does he cancel or even postpone the wedding?No,apparently he can scope out Nik's place with Sam in between the cake tasting and rehearsal dinner. Liz hasn't given Jake a fake identity where he is totally single and Jake totally believes. I am not going to say just, because what Liz is doing is pretty serious. He has a lot of questions and he does care about the answers, but I don't believe he even floated the possibility of delaying the wedding. 

[Chairperson Meow]

To me, it seems like rape because Liz knew Jake was Jason. He did not. Her main POV beyond the "my time" bs seems to reek of "if Jake knew he were Jason, he'd not consent". We don't know that, but for Liz to take such desperate measures, it presents that POV. Ergo, it seems to me, much like men who take advantage of drunk chicks or mentally ill chicks. Liz took full advantage of the situation, including sex with a man who didn't know who he was. She violated Jake's trust. That's just my opinion. I respect the opposite opinions because there is a lot of weird shit on this show.

[HeatLifer]

This topic will always be sticky. But even Nik said on Friday that Liz couldn't have Old!Jason! And Liz also knows Jason wouldn't want her. She knows if he had all his memories, he would go to Sam. He was married and happy with Sam before he died. That's why Liz is keeping the lie! So is there a particular word that applies to what Liz is doing? I dunno. I just know she's sleeping with someone who wouldn't be with her if he wasn't suffering from amnesia.

Edited November 8, 2015 by HeatLifer

[LeftPhalange]

If the roles were reversed and Liez was the one being taken advantage of and manipulated I wonder if people would be more inclined to view the situation as rape-y. I'm not necessarily willing to say what Liez is doing is tantamount to rape but it's coming very close to crossing that line. It's especially abhorrent behavior coming from someone who has been raped.

[tvgoddess]

To me, it seems like rape because Liz knew Jake was Jason. He did not. Her main POV beyond the "my time" bs seems to reek of "if Jake knew he were Jason, he'd not consent". We don't know that, but for Liz to take such desperate measures, it presents that POV. Ergo, it seems to me, much like men who take advantage of drunk chicks or mentally ill chicks. Liz took full advantage of the situation, including sex with a man who didn't know who he was. She violated Jake's trust. That's just my opinion. I respect the opposite opinions because there is a lot of weird shit on this show.

 

This post made me think of when Ron decided to be even more gross than usual on his other show. Marty had amnesia, and Todd (fake Todd/Victor, but Todd at the time) took advantage of that and knowing she would never sleep with him in infinity years, manipulated and hid the truth from her. Now, I'm not suggesting in any way that Liz is anything like Todd was in that situation, she didn't previously and violently rape Jake. I'm not even ready to call what she is doing rape. I really think both sides make a compelling argument, and I'm content to just say that it's a fine line and a sticky topic like was said above. I'm just saying that the amnesia presents an interesting debate. Also, when you compare it to if the roles were reversed, like LeftPhalange said.

 

You guys remind me though, maybe I'm not remembering it correctly. Marty wasn't mentally ill at the time, right? She just had no memory of who she was, correct?

[Oracle42]

Yeah, I think if Ric was doing this to Amnesiac!Liz - keeping her from her children, sleeping with her and planning to marry her knowing that she'd turned him down before she came back with amnesia - there'd be fewer questions about the nature of the violation and (unless you're RC) absolutely no question that it was a violation

Edited November 8, 2015 by Oracle42

[TeeVee329]

Oh how I was wish someone, anyone, would point out how awful Nikolas and Liz both thought it was when Mary Bishop did this to Nikolas.

Edited November 8, 2015 by TeeVee329

[Oracle42]

If Mary Bishop isn't dead can she get a mask that looks like Umily and haunt Nikolas? Because I would reallllly enjoy watching him lose her all over again.

 

[Harmony233]

Yeah, I think if Ric was doing this to Amnesiac!Liz - keeping her from her children, sleeping with her and planning to marry her knowing that she'd turned him down before she came back with amnesia - there'd be fewer questions about the nature of the violation and (unless you're RC) absolutely no question that it was a violation

THey actually did an story somewhat similar to this on port charles with Lucy and DV she had amnesia and he convinced her that they had been lovers ad she slept with him.When she got her memory back and it all came out they pretty much treated it like rape or that he took advantage of lucy.

[Bamboo]

Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but this also reminds me of something that has always bothered me about the movie "Overboard" with Goldie Hawn. Kurt Russell's character takes a woman who he KNOWS is married and has amnesia, brings her to his home and tells her that she is his wife and the mother of his 3 sons, has her bond with the boys and eventually sleeps with her knowing all along that he (and the boys) are lying to her about everything. In the end she's cool with it. It always creeped me out. I've always hated Liz, but aside from mind control or the "Liz has a brain tumor that made her do these crazy things!" cop-out, I don't know how they can repair the character after this. I won't be surprised if she gets written out after this, at least for awhile. I don't watch everyday, but didn't she also want that Hayden character to die/stay in a coma?

[cheyz]

This post made me think of when Ron decided to be even more gross than usual on his other show. Marty had amnesia, and Todd (fake Todd/Victor, but Todd at the time) took advantage of that and knowing she would never sleep with him in infinity years, manipulated and hid the truth from her. Now, I'm not suggesting in any way that Liz is anything like Todd was in that situation, she didn't previously and violently rape Jake. I'm not even ready to call what she is doing rape. I really think both sides make a compelling argument, and I'm content to just say that it's a fine line and a sticky topic like was said above. I'm just saying that the amnesia presents an interesting debate. Also, when you compare it to if the roles were reversed, like LeftPhalange said.

 

You guys remind me though, maybe I'm not remembering it correctly. Marty wasn't mentally ill at the time, right? She just had no memory of who she was, correct?

 

Marty had no memory, and she also had physical injuries. VicTodd knew who she was from the start, he isolated her and nursed her back to health. He kept her physically isolated from anyone who might know her so she could not regain her memories.

 

Liz met Jake Doe in the hospital and did not know who he was until Nick told her, after she had already started a relationship with Jake Doe.

[WendyCR72]

FABLife is a total failure. And allegedly Robin, George, and Lara have all said "no" to another hour of GMA.

 

All ABC would have to do there is get other news/personality folks to host. NBC does that. Two hours with the news crew, another with Al Roker, Carson Daly and whomever, and the last hour is Kathie Lee and Hoda.

[TeeVee329]

Liz met Jake Doe in the hospital and did not know who he was until Nick told her, after she had already started a relationship with Jake Doe.

 

She hadn't started a relationship with Jake yet.  She had literally just dumped Ric at the Nurses' Ball when Nikolas told her.  Liz thought about it for about half an hour and then took Jake home and slept with him that night.

 

Whether it's rape or not, what Liz has done and is doing is morally heinous.  Like Bamboo says above, I dunno how they're gonna walk Liz back from this.  I thought they'd blame her lingering grief over losing Little Jake, but now she has him back.

Edited November 8, 2015 by TeeVee329

[WendyCR72]

All this Liz/rape debate brings me back to my rage blackouts when Carolyn Hinsey and Michael Logan were adamant that men could not be raped and, ergo, Jax was not raped.

 

UGH.

 

Makes me even happier that SOD is circling the drain.

[Francie]

All this Liz/rape debate brings me back to my rage blackouts when Carolyn Hinsey and Michael Logan were adamant that men could not be raped and, ergo, Jax was not raped.

 

UGH.

 

Makes me even happier that SOD is circling the drain.

Taking my response to the PR Press/Behind the Scenes thread.

[tvgoddess]

I know these are special circumstances, but this picture is odd to me. I can't see Carly being comforting. I can't tell what I think about it.

 

https://twitter.com/nathanvarni/status/663582574065795072

[OnceSane]

I know these are special circumstances, but this picture is odd to me. I can't see Carly being comforting. I can't tell what I think about it.

 

https://twitter.com/nathanvarni/status/663582574065795072

I can see Carly being comforting in this situation. Remember when Franco returned with his DVDs of "truth"? Carly was comforting Sam and obviously worried about her when Franco was drawing out the "I only fake raped you!" reveal.

[tvgoddess]

That is true. I guess I just haven't seen it in a while, and especially towards Sam. I'm mildly interested in this part, especially since the rest is just one big huge fail.

[CPP83]

Sam and Carly since Jason's "death" have sort of grown friendly(er) so I can see them leaning on each other now, but what really strikes me about that shot is how much Kelly reminds me of a little girl against Laura with how small and short she is. And the whole close hug/grasping the back of the head move seems more maternal to me as well, so in that I do think the embrace seems very personal and since it is Carly and Sam it looks quite out of place considering their history, but hey, sometimes you've just gotta hug it out.

 

Although personally I want to see the shot when they both find out abut Liz. If there was ever a time I'm all for a Carly and Sam doubleteam striking out to inflict misery together, it'll be then. 

Edited November 9, 2015 by CPP83

[Fylaki]

 

and the last hour is Kathie Lee and Hoda.

God no. I would rather Nina and Franco. While I am not on the cancel GH bandwagon, if she has to die at least let her die bringing back news. Real hard hitting actual news coverage al la Edward R Murrow, not those two drunk hags

[LeftPhalange]

I know these are special circumstances, but this picture is odd to me. I can't see Carly being comforting. I can't tell what I think about it.

 

https://twitter.com/nathanvarni/status/663582574065795072

 

The replies to this pic are so funny and embarrassing.

Edited November 9, 2015 by LeftPhalange

[ch1]

I really can't stand that Jason's harem is getting him back.

[WendyCR72]

God no. I would rather Nina and Franco. While I am not on the cancel GH bandwagon, if she has to die at least let her die bringing back news. Real hard hitting actual news coverage al la Edward R Murrow, not those two drunk hags

Hey, I never liked them, either. LOL. But they must get enough eyeballs since they have endured this long to annoy the masses!

[backhometome]

 

The replies to this pic are so funny and embarrassing.

Haha. They were amusing to read.

[mybabyaidan]

I know these are special circumstances, but this picture is odd to me. I can't see Carly being comforting. I can't tell what I think about it.

 

https://twitter.com/nathanvarni/status/663582574065795072

I think sometimes when Kelly and Laura are in scenes together, their natural fondness of each other offscreen comes through. They are pretty good friends and love working together.

That said, Carly has been pretty consistently supportive of Sam since Jason's "death". Remember when she swung by to help clean? They had their fights over Franco but they have been civil for a long time now.

[TeeVee329]

Lucas fills Carly in about the custody hearing for Avery being moved up and Carly's late! #GH Monday!

 

Ah, that's why Lucas is at the wedding.

[CPP83]

Ah, that's why Lucas is at the wedding.

 

 

Because god forbid his own story-line (hah) gain any traction or any such nonsense. To cap it off they should have him endure an uncomfortable and slightly awkward run-in with Felix, just for that added touch, like the cherry on top of a sundae. 

Edited November 9, 2015 by CPP83

[tvgoddess]

I think sometimes when Kelly and Laura are in scenes together, their natural fondness of each other offscreen comes through. They are pretty good friends and love working together.

That said, Carly has been pretty consistently supportive of Sam since Jason's "death". Remember when she swung by to help clean? They had their fights over Franco but they have been civil for a long time now.

 

No, I honestly don't. Sounds like I probably skipped that day. Why did she offer to help clean?

[Oracle42]

I think after Jason "died" and Sam was in denial. She had maps and reports spread out because she kept insisting she was going to find him and bring him home.

Carly tried to make her accept it and said she was there because Jason would've wanted her to be - I think she gave Sam her phone because there was a voicemail from Jadon on it?

It was a nice scene

Edited November 9, 2015 by Oracle42

[mybabyaidan]

I think after Jason "died" and Sam was in denial. She had maps and reports spread out because she kept insisting she was going to find him and bring him home.

Carly tried to make her accept it and said she was there because Jason would've wanted her to be - I think she gave Sam her phone because there was a voicemail from Jadon on it?

It was a nice scene

Yeah that's the one. Carly didn't go specifically to clean, just to be there for Sam. Of course Sam was still in major denial and was not having any of it. I'll try to find it when I get home, I am at work on my iPad.

[Lillybee]

Since Jake now knows that he is Jason, can he be a part of the team that will rescue Robin?