formerlyfreedom March 13, 2018 Share March 13, 2018 Kreizler mourns the loss of a friend. Sara pushes the team to forge ahead. Moore warns his friend the killer will strike again. Cyrus seeks revenge. Link to comment
Reality police March 13, 2018 Share March 13, 2018 I hope Cyrus kills Conner in a slow and painful manner. Dr K can watch. 5 Link to comment
88Keys March 20, 2018 Share March 20, 2018 Tonight is going to be brutal. I'm almost dreading it. I wasn't sure about this show at first, but I've really come to care about these characters. 2 Link to comment
Reality police March 20, 2018 Share March 20, 2018 12 minutes ago, 88Keys said: Tonight is going to be brutal. I'm almost dreading it. I wasn't sure about this show at first, but I've really come to care about these characters. I so agree with you. Get the tissues ready, I don't think anyone is going to handle this well. I only hope Connor dies a slow painful death. 2 Link to comment
Reality police March 20, 2018 Share March 20, 2018 Well, I almost got to see Connor die. Maybe it will still happen. 7 Link to comment
Cobalt Stargazer March 20, 2018 Share March 20, 2018 Just now, Reality police said: Well, I almost got to see Connor die. Maybe it will still happen. If Connor's kid hadn't shown up, Cyrus would have killed him, I'm pretty sure. Unlike Connor, Cyrus has a conscience. And OMG at :"If not me, then who?" from Kriezler at Mary's funeral. Twist the knife a little harder. 5 Link to comment
pezgirl7 March 20, 2018 Share March 20, 2018 If they don't save Joseph, I'm going to riot. This episode was very intense. I need some time to decompress. I'm proud of John. He didn't get his ass whooped and is turning into quite the detective. :) 13 Link to comment
Straycat80 March 20, 2018 Share March 20, 2018 Well, they've found their killer. And that poor kid, that was brutal. I hope they get to the younger boy in time to save him. I'm looking forward to next week and see how this all ends (hopefully with Connor dead) but I'm going to miss this show. 7 Link to comment
Reality police March 20, 2018 Share March 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, pezgirl7 said: If they don't save Joseph, I'm going to riot. This episode was very intense. I need some time to decompress. I'm proud of John. He didn't get his ass whooped and is turning into quite the detective. :) I'll riot with you. John is stepping up. If Joseph is killed John and Dr K will drink themselves to death. 7 Link to comment
Reality police March 20, 2018 Share March 20, 2018 I need a drink and I'm not a drinker! 3 Link to comment
tennisgurl March 20, 2018 Share March 20, 2018 (edited) This show is actively trying to raise my blood pressure, isn't it? That ending was terrifying. They better save Joseph damn it. I cant deal with more sadness after Mary. Her funeral was heartbreaking, as was Dr. Kreizler holding up in his house drunkenly rambling to old pictures. This episode featured an absolute rouges gallery of creeps. You had that asshole lackey of Connors in the beginning, the asshole sexist anti semite in records hall, an endless array of creepy creeps everywhere, plus the head creeps, Connor and the serial killer himself. I did enjoy seeing the gang stepping it up without Dr. K around and getting stuff done, investigating leads and tracking down sources. Even poor John has been stepping it up lately, and is really becoming a good detective. And didn't get his ass kicked once this episode! And he and Joseph are really sweet together. Seriously though. Connor needs to die. So much. I really do now think he and his cronies might have had John assaulted at the whore house, especially after his super creepy threat to Sara, about how someone could sneak up and rape her and she would never know who did it. That was just all kinds of chilling. Cyrus was about five seconds from gutting his nasty ass before he kid showed up. I might actually hate Connor more than the serial killer. The killer is a monster, but is clearly totally off his nut. Connor is just a piece of shit who treats people like garbage because he wants to be a big man, but isn't. I am excited to see what happens, but I dont want the show to end yet. I have really grown found of these characters, and I dont want to leave them, and I dont want anything bad to happen to them. Edited March 20, 2018 by tennisgurl 18 Link to comment
Reality police March 20, 2018 Share March 20, 2018 @tennisgurl, you said it! We are going to have to form a therapy group after next week! It broke my heart to see Dr K's flashbacks and then that primal scream. I hope John takes Joseph into his home to help him. He seems to really care for the boy. 7 Link to comment
88Keys March 20, 2018 Share March 20, 2018 That was a very tense, suspenseful episode. Great pacing. And it was interesting how it focused mostly on the investigation and not on Kreizler and his grief. But seriously...I could have very happily lived out the rest of my life without seeing Connor trying to have sex. Or pee, for that matter. 10 Link to comment
tennisgurl March 20, 2018 Share March 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, Reality police said: I hope John takes Joseph into his home to help him. He seems to really care for the boy. Thats what I want to happen. I want Sara and John to get together and they adopt Joseph and Sara becomes a detective and John gets to draw and everyone is happy damn it. 16 Link to comment
WhatsUpDummy March 20, 2018 Share March 20, 2018 Not gonna lie, I had to mute it when he was cutting up that poor boy. Between the sounds and the sight of the feet jerking with the movement was too much for me. Poor Joseph, I was yelling at him to keep quiet when he was hiding in that locker. 12 Link to comment
emma675 March 20, 2018 Share March 20, 2018 Good lord, this episode was so intense. I didn't even realize I was holding my breath and holding myself as still as possible during the murder scene at the end until it was over. Poor, poor Joseph. I've come to love all of these characters so much, I can't believe next week is the final episode. I haven't read the book yet but could this show have another season or is this a one and done? I love how dedicated the Isaacson brothers are, I love how Sara forges ahead, I love how John is trying so hard to kick his bad habits and is actively stepping up when Lazslo can't, I love how Cyrus wants so badly to kill Connor but won't do it in front of his kid, I love how Stevie is mourning Mary. I'm so sad this is over next week even though my blood pressure will probably be happy. On a lighter note, I love how we're all so pleased John didn't get his ass kicked for once, lol! 14 Link to comment
renatae March 20, 2018 Share March 20, 2018 Agreeing with all the earlier comments! At this point, I am somewhat confused about this Ali character. Are they thinking he may be the killer instead of of "John Beecham?" Suddenly, they mention that one of the boys said that Ali hated his father "worse than anything," and his name is brought up again by the debt collector as having been an enforcer as well as the alias Beecham. Also, no one seems to recognize the drawings of the suspect, and although he is supposed to be walking amongst them constantly, they can't match up the suspect's description with what the detectives know about the suspect. Then again, Ali's name appears on the calendar which includes the names of victims. Yep, I'm scratching my head. Link to comment
leslieo54 March 20, 2018 Share March 20, 2018 5 hours ago, WhatsUpDummy said: Not gonna lie, I had to mute it when he was cutting up that poor boy. Between the sounds and the sight of the feet jerking with the movement was too much for me. Poor Joseph, I was yelling at him to keep quiet when he was hiding in that locker. Same - it was just too much. I wanted it to be over, but when it effectively was, I was just cross that I had to wait until next week to see what happens next... they’re killing me, here! Next week is the finale, yes? 1 hour ago, renatae said: Agreeing with all the earlier comments! At this point, I am somewhat confused about this Ali character. Are they thinking he may be the killer instead of of "John Beecham?" Suddenly, they mention that one of the boys said that Ali hated his father "worse than anything," and his name is brought up again by the debt collector as having been an enforcer as well as the alias Beecham. Also, no one seems to recognize the drawings of the suspect, and although he is supposed to be walking amongst them constantly, they can't match up the suspect's description with what the detectives know about the suspect. Then again, Ali's name appears on the calendar which includes the names of victims. Yep, I'm scratching my head. Argh, that’s what happens when you try to read the forums too late at night - multiple quotes are apparently beyond me ;-) Ali is one of the dead boys - the second one, I think. They seem to be drawing parallels between 'Beecham's' relationship with his parents and that of his victims. 2 Link to comment
renatae March 20, 2018 Share March 20, 2018 Thanks, leslieo54! I thought the debt collector guy mentioned one of his thugs was named Ali, the one who took over for "John Beecham" so that's what confused me. That as well as dozing off here and there - I had to rewatch the episode and still had trouble! Link to comment
AttackTurtle March 20, 2018 Share March 20, 2018 I really loved this book when I read it 20 years ago and the second one in the series was pretty good too. I’ve never understood why the author stopped at two with these characters, but apparently another is coming in 2019. But last night’s episode....yikes. Normally I prefer shows to be on paid cable, but after the scene of the boy being butchered...I don’t think I could stomach much more graphic detail. God that was terrifying. 4 Link to comment
bosawks March 20, 2018 Share March 20, 2018 I want Sara to run for office with the slogan of "Vote Sara Howard, she gets shit done!" 20 Link to comment
ElectricBoogaloo March 20, 2018 Share March 20, 2018 When I watched the first season of Outlander, it made me wonder how any women got through the day without being attacked, assaulted, or raped. Watching this episode made me wonder if there were any men in New York who weren't totally creepy assholes. Aside from the John Beecham the serial killer, we also have Connor who hangs around just to threaten to rape Sara, Murray the census guy who just casually insulted everyone but John, the other cop who blatantly lied about Mary's murder and claimed that she not only came on to Connor but hid a knife in her petticoat. Everyone is the worst! I know that Laszlo is mourning and blaming himself so he's wallowing in self-pity and acting out. I totally get that. But when he broke that glass, all I could think was sure, it's all well and fine for you to leave shards of glass everywhere when you have Cyrus and Stevie to clean up your mess! Maybe consider that they're in mourning too and don't give them shitty things to do like picking tiny pieces of glass out of your rug. 6 Link to comment
sugarbaker design March 20, 2018 Share March 20, 2018 1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said: Watching this episode made me wonder if there were any men in New York who weren't totally creepy assholes. It was worse. Women couldn't vote, to call them second class citizens would be generous. I was talking with a friend last night about how people really talked back at the turn of the century, he said TV today couldn't possibly convey the language that was full of misogyny, racism, anti-semitism and homophobia. It would be too offensive for my delicate 21st century ears. 4 Link to comment
libgirl2 March 20, 2018 Share March 20, 2018 10 hours ago, WhatsUpDummy said: Not gonna lie, I had to mute it when he was cutting up that poor boy. Between the sounds and the sight of the feet jerking with the movement was too much for me. Poor Joseph, I was yelling at him to keep quiet when he was hiding in that locker. I was doing the same.... be quiet!!! Argghhh! 11 hours ago, 88Keys said: That was a very tense, suspenseful episode. Great pacing. And it was interesting how it focused mostly on the investigation and not on Kreizler and his grief. But seriously...I could have very happily lived out the rest of my life without seeing Connor trying to have sex. Or pee, for that matter. Oh God, that was awful! My eyes..... they burned! 4 Link to comment
qtpye March 20, 2018 Share March 20, 2018 This was one of the creepiest hours of television I have seen in my life. I mean I was actually a little jumpy and was scared to death for poor Joseph. I am really enjoying this series and the pacing is really well done. I am really hoping that Joseph is saved. They know who the killer is and he will not strike until the next holy day, so it is possible. 1 hour ago, sugarbaker design said: It was worse. Women couldn't vote, to call them second class citizens would be generous. I was talking with a friend last night about how people really talked back at the turn of the century, he said TV today couldn't possibly convey the language that was full of misogyny, racism, anti-semitism and homophobia. It would be too offensive for my delicate 21st century ears. It is sad to think what we are seeing is actually a "cleaned up version" to how bad things were then. 6 Link to comment
proserpina65 March 20, 2018 Share March 20, 2018 6 hours ago, leslieo54 said: Ali is one of the dead boys - the second one, I think. They seem to be drawing parallels between 'Beecham's' relationship with his parents and that of his victims. Ali was Fatima, Joseph's friend. 2 Link to comment
bluwater March 20, 2018 Share March 20, 2018 My anxiety was through the roof watching this ep! Like ya'll, I was telling Joseph to be quiet. Heh. Wanted Cyrus to gut that pig. Why couldn't that kid wait to pee?! It's incredible how I've come to love these characters and wish them the best. Wish Sara could run for President and have ol Teddy as VP. Hee! I can't wait for next week while also dreading it, since it's the finale. I really love the credits. Whatever noise plays towards the end creeps me out and sets the tone for the show. The way the Statue of Liberty's face disappears is so chilling to me. 5 Link to comment
thuganomics85 March 20, 2018 Share March 20, 2018 OK, I have to tell myself/belief that Connor is destined to die, so at this point I'm just wondering who will get the honor. Because as of now, I feel like Laszlo, Cyrus, and Sara all deserve that honor. Maybe they can take turns! Seriously though: Connor is the worst. Not surprise that Laszlo was down for the count (for now) due to his grief over Mary, but I enjoyed seeing John, Sara, and Isaacsons power through, buckle down, and get shit done. They've finally found the killer's lair and know for sure who he is! Now the problem is just actually finding him, since he's out and about, being a psycho. Speaking of which, that final scene was brutal. Even if we didn't actually see a lot of the actual cutting, just hearing it and seeing that blood trail was brutal. Poor Joseph though. I hope they get to him in time. I'm hoping Roosevelt's little face off with Byrnes will lead to him finally standing up, and cutting out some of the dead, rotten weight in the force. Can't wait till the finale next week! 6 Link to comment
KungFuBunny March 20, 2018 Share March 20, 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said: OK, I have to tell myself/belief that Connor is destined to die, so at this point I'm just wondering who will get the honor. Because as of now, I feel like Laszlo, Cyrus, and Sara all deserve that honor. Maybe they can take turns! Seriously though: Connor is the worst. Not surprise that Laszlo was down for the count (for now) due to his grief over Mary, but I enjoyed seeing John, Sara, and Isaacsons power through, buckle down, and get shit done. They've finally found the killer's lair and know for sure who he is! Now the problem is just actually finding him, since he's out and about, being a psycho. Speaking of which, that final scene was brutal. Even if we didn't actually see a lot of the actual cutting, just hearing it and seeing that blood trail was brutal. Poor Joseph though. I hope they get to him in time. I'm hoping Roosevelt's little face off with Byrnes will lead to him finally standing up, and cutting out some of the dead, rotten weight in the force. Can't wait till the finale next week! Remember Lazlo asking Cyrus what he felt as he was killing said unknown man? I think he said something along feeling pleasure during the act. I don't think Cyrus will get his chance at Connor but may get a chance with one of the other 2 stoogies that was with Connor. For some reason I think Connor will die at the hands of Drury/Beecham the Serial Killer. Connor seems to be spying and following the team trying to solve the crime. I think he will try to take credit for solving the crime but the serial killer will get in a good hack with his knife. I'm hoping that he either guts him so his entrails fall out or gives him a wound where he slowly bleeds to death internally. I want an explanation of Lazlo's arm. He was a gifted pianist - I wonder if his father or grandfather caused his permanent injury. I hope Joseph survives and John and Sara marry and adopt him. Edited March 20, 2018 by KungFuBunny 5 Link to comment
libgirl2 March 20, 2018 Share March 20, 2018 46 minutes ago, KungFuBunny said: Remember Lazlo asking Cyrus what he felt as he was killing said unknown man? I think he said something along feeling pleasure during the act. I don't think Cyrus will get his chance at Connor but may get a chance with one of the other 2 stoogies that was with Connor. For some reason I think Connor will die at the hands of Drury/Beecham the Serial Killer. Connor seems to be spying and following the team trying to solve the crime. I think he will try to take credit for solving the crime but the serial killer will get in a good hack with his knife. I'm hoping that he either guts him so his entrails fall out or gives him a wound where he slowly bleeds to death internally. I want an explanation of Lazlo's arm. He was a gifted pianist - I wonder if his father or grandfather caused his permanent injury. I hope Joseph survives and John and Sara marry and adopt him. I think that is a good idea and entirely possible. He gets too close and gets in the way. I hope he doesn't solve the crime but figures it out too late (ie he is getting killed). Also, this way none of none of the good guys gets in trouble (this means you Cyrus). 3 Link to comment
KungFuBunny March 20, 2018 Share March 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, libgirl2 said: I think that is a good idea and entirely possible. He gets too close and gets in the way. I hope he doesn't solve the crime but figures it out too late (ie he is getting killed). Also, this way none of none of the good guys gets in trouble (this means you Cyrus). Sorry I didn't word it properly. I don't think he solves the crime I think he follows Sara/John/Lazlo/Jacabsons - who do solve the crime and have Drury/Beecham within their sight. Connor being his usual sneaky/snakey self will step in during the take down - and try to take credit. I wouldn't be surprised if he tries to shoot some of the team members while everything is happening. 1 Link to comment
WhatsUpDummy March 20, 2018 Share March 20, 2018 So does Lazlo have no feeling in his arm at all? He was stabbing himself and wasn’t even flinching. 1 Link to comment
Reality police March 20, 2018 Share March 20, 2018 I couldn't tell if he couldn't feel it or was just so angry that he had no reaction. 4 Link to comment
AttackTurtle March 20, 2018 Share March 20, 2018 (edited) I’m enjoying this show, but I really enjoyed the book. I’m not crazy about the actor portraying Roosevelt as he seems to have zero charisma which is not how he’s portrayed in the book nor is that how I’ve understood him to be historically. That being said my one issue with the book(s) was Roosevelt, as his presence seems almost gimmicky in the book(s). I just read that Caleb Carr really dislikes the portrayal of Roosevelt on the show as well. The rest of the actors are really great. The actor playing John has a really bright career ahead of him if this is anything to go by. Dakota has grown on me with each episode. I watched this episode again and it still scared the crap out me. Edited March 20, 2018 by AttackTurtle 3 Link to comment
AttackTurtle March 21, 2018 Share March 21, 2018 2 hours ago, pezgirl7 said: I'm sorry but this made me chuckle. Luke Evans has had some big roles in some big movies: Beauty and the Beast, The Hobbit, Dracula Untold, The Three Musketeers, Clash of the Titans. But I'm glad you are enjoying his performance! :) Sorry....I haven’t seen a single one of those movies. I kid you not the last movie I saw in a theatre was No Country for Old men. I’m old and lazy. 4 Link to comment
Reality police March 21, 2018 Share March 21, 2018 13 minutes ago, AttackTurtle said: Sorry....I haven’t seen a single one of those movies. I kid you not the last movie I saw in a theatre was No Country for Old men. I’m old and lazy. Don't feel bad. I have been in and out of the hospital for the last two years and haven't seen his work either. There are some wonderful videos of him on YouTube. He is a wonderful performer and singer. I'm old too, but it's better than the alternative! 2 Link to comment
Haleth March 21, 2018 Share March 21, 2018 (edited) Besides the gruesome dragging of the mutilated boy, the big old jar o' eyeballs was pretty gross too. I love that Sara can stomach the horror as well as the men. No puking, no crying, no shrieking, no fainting. Oh, Joseph. I hope that is someone else at the door, not Beecham. I agree the actor playing Teddy R lacks charisma, but it's also not easy to shine when acting opposite Ted Levine. Edited March 21, 2018 by Haleth 2 Link to comment
Reality police March 21, 2018 Share March 21, 2018 This production is adept at switching out who is at the door. Hopefully they will do it again. Please somebody rescue Joseph! 1 Link to comment
renatae March 21, 2018 Share March 21, 2018 5 hours ago, thuganomics85 said: I'm hoping Roosevelt's little face off with Byrnes will lead to him finally standing up, and cutting out some of the dead, rotten weight in the force. Roosevelt was pretty darn feisty, so I'm having a lot of trouble connecting this characterization to the real person. I am anxiously awaiting him to clean house in the department! 3 Link to comment
formerlyfreedom March 21, 2018 Author Share March 21, 2018 Let's please stick to discussing the episode here - you can either discuss the book in the Book Talk topic or the potential for a further season in The Alienist Speculation topic. Some posts have been moved. Thank you. Link to comment
renatae March 21, 2018 Share March 21, 2018 4 hours ago, AttackTurtle said: I’m enjoying this show, but I really enjoyed the book. I’m not crazy about the actor portraying Roosevelt as he seems to have zero charisma which is not how he’s portrayed in the book nor is that how I’ve understood him to be historically. That being said my one issue with the book(s) was Roosevelt, as his presence seems almost gimmicky in the book(s). I just read that Caleb Carr really dislikes the portrayal of Roosevelt on the show as well. I just saw this post and I feel validated, lol. Just can't get used to the Roosevelt portrayal. I think he would have gone in there with a few erstwhile Rough Riders and shown those police who's boss! Or just duked it out himself! :) Link to comment
The Wild Sow March 21, 2018 Share March 21, 2018 20 hours ago, libgirl2 said: But seriously...I could have very happily lived out the rest of my life without seeing Connor trying to have sex. Or pee, for that matter. Oh, but between Connor's long johns, his passel of kids, and his outhouse, all I could think of was this scene from Monty Python! (the part around 2:14) On 3/20/2018 at 3:30 AM, renatae said: I am somewhat confused about this Ali character. Are they thinking he may be the killer instead of of "John Beecham?" Suddenly, they mention that one of the boys said that Ali hated his father "worse than anything," and his name is brought up again by the debt collector as having been an enforcer as well as the alias Beecham. No, Ali wasn't an enforcer. Ali/Fatima was one of the early victims! Ali's father beat up the first enforcer the debt collector sent; after that they sent Beecham (who was apparently tougher.) Ali's father sold him to the Madam in payment for his gambling debt, so I'd say he hated his father for good reason! 4 Link to comment
AnnieHeights March 21, 2018 Share March 21, 2018 21 hours ago, bluwater said: My anxiety was through the roof watching this ep! Like ya'll, I was telling Joseph to be quiet. Heh. Wanted Cyrus to gut that pig. Why couldn't that kid wait to pee?! It's incredible how I've come to love these characters and wish them the best. Wish Sara could run for President and have ol Teddy as VP. Hee! I can't wait for next week while also dreading it, since it's the finale. I really love the credits. Whatever noise plays towards the end creeps me out and sets the tone for the show. The way the Statue of Liberty's face disappears is so chilling to me. I am so glad you mentioned the Statue of Liberty's face being deconstructed........that part always sticks out to me and I totally agree, there is something chilling about it. Along with everyone else, I am really sad the series finale is next week....I am looking forward to seeing how everything is wrapped up but not looking forward to not having it to watch each week. 4 Link to comment
festivus March 21, 2018 Share March 21, 2018 17 hours ago, AttackTurtle said: The rest of the actors are really great. The actor playing John has a really bright career ahead of him if this is anything to go by. Dakota has grown on me with each episode. This is my first time seeing Luke Evans too and like you I'm really enjoying his portrayal of John. Also agree with you about Dakota. I've probably got the UO of not missing Kreizler this episode, I loved the detective team of John, Sara, and the brothers. 3 Link to comment
bosawks March 21, 2018 Share March 21, 2018 I think one of the things I am really enjoying is that the characters seem like muted versions of their archetypes. It’s nice to be given credit as a viewer that Sara is made of steel, John is a sensitive soul, Teddy is a scrapper and Lazslo is all sorts of messed up without putting an exclamation point all the time. And I do love how John says Laszlo. 5 Link to comment
ElectricBoogaloo March 21, 2018 Share March 21, 2018 Inside the episode: Clip: confrontation Link to comment
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