S07.E06: Species Jump

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Saul calls an old friend; Wellington has a problem; Carrie enjoys a win.

Promo:

 

Clip:

[WaltersHair]

Agent Bedroom Eyes! Double, triple spying.

Carrie, do you ever listen to Saul when you should? Max Lite/Quinn Lite is intriguing but young.

Good episode. Eveyone's in a honey trap.

[Ottis]

This is the first episode this season that interested me. I was about to give up. 

[Joan van Snark]

This was a really good exciting episode.  I couldn't follow exactly every detail but it still felt like it was building to something and anytime Saul and Carrie cross paths is good.  Have to say the agent who double crossed Carrie is pretty hot without a shirt!

[scrb]

Simone went a long way to set up Wellington.

They were an item for years and now she's going to throw him under the bus?

How did they know that he'd some day be the chief of staff to the POTUS?

And apparently they got an FBI agent in their pocket as well.

So Oleg is going to do more than just snap pictures.  He may end up the heavy for the season.  Wonder if it would affect his screen time on The Americans.

If it's like the Pakistan season, they never capture the other country's spies, like that Pakistani woman who got away with the stuff she pulled.

[Pallas]

1 minute ago, scrb said:

They were an item for years and now she's going to throw him under the bus?

How did they know that he'd some day be the chief of staff to the POTUS?

Wellington is Keane's Huma Abedin, while Simone is Wellington's Andrew Weiner...Seriously though, Keane was likely a major figure in her party for a long time; we know Wellington has been at her side from the start of her career, and the Russians took a shot. (Last year's coup did manage to kill Keane's then-Chief of Staff, and Wellington moved into the job.) But I think Paley simply opposes Keane, while Dante and Simone are actively collaborating with the Russians to discredit her. Dante arranged her immunity, just as he did the two faulty bugs. 

Saul did a fine job of putting together Dante's involvement while still reeling from the news that Carrie was "up" in Wellington's house. Not their first rodeo together. 

[chocolatine]

So Dr. Oleg Yevgeniy is nostalgic for the Soviet Union and thinks he can bring it back by "destroying" the US. OK then! It's true what he said about Yeltsin-era Russia, it was miserable. There were food and medicine shortages, which is probably why Yevgeniy's brother died. But that was 20 years ago, things are much better now, and the Soviet Union was no picnic for most people either.

I didn't catch how far the place where Ivan was thrown overboard was from the place he was supposed to meet Saul. Any chance Saul is close enough save him?

In the cell phone video where Simone pretends that Wellington is hurting her it's clear that he's not touching her, right?

So is Dante the new Brody in the sense that his loyalties are ambiguous? (I know Brody's loyalties became much less ambiguous once he strapped on a suicide vest, but they were in the beginning.) At least Carrie has her Pakistan crew to help her this time around.

Edited March 19, 2018 by chocolatine

[Pallas]

12 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

In the cell phone video where Simone pretends that Wellington is hurting her it's clear that he's not touching her, right?

 

He touched her elbow. Simone took a dive, more or less. 

 

13 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

So is Dante the new Brody in the sense that his loyalties are ambiguous?

Hmm, maybe I'm doing a Carrie and running to a pre-determined conclusion...But no, I don't think so: Dante's not innocent here. I've been convinced his "bipolar ex" was a fabrication; he's pretended to compromise himself while really compromising Carrie (for when he might need to do so, down the road); his first bug failed and then his second bug hitched a ride on an Uber -- one he actively dissuaded Carrie from following -- and he's already started on the, "You should go home and take your meds" distancing tactic. He came to the party to check up on whether she was still a problem. He just didn't plan for the mickey in his drink. 

For me, the only question is whether he's gone rogue on his own to entrap Keane, or is actively colluding with the Russians to do so. I think the latter. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

If Dante's a double agent he's not a very good one, IMO. They drugged him at the bar, right? That move gets pulled on young college coeds and one woudn't expect a trained spy to fall for it.

[chocolatine]

20 minutes ago, Pallas said:

Hmm, maybe I'm doing a Carrie and running to a pre-determined conclusion...But no, I don't think so: Dante's not innocent here.

It looks that way now, but we're only halfway through the season, so I expect things will change. For what it's worth, I've always sensed that Dante legitimately had the hots for Carrie since his first appearance. Of course he could just be getting off on playing her, but I sense that there's more to the story.

Edited March 19, 2018 by chocolatine

[Pallas]

6 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

If Dante's a double agent he's not a very good one, IMO. They drugged him at the bar, right? That move gets pulled on young college coeds and one woudn't expect a trained spy to fall for it.

True, but he's an FBI agent and he fell for it; Yevgeny's contact got herself roped into a reundevous with Ivan; Ivan got himself offed by someone who'd given him fair warning; and Carrie never saw Dante coming, despite the many clues. Only Simone and Saul were on their games tonight. And Yevgeny, I guess. 

[Bannon]

First good episode in a long time. Really a nice twist to have Dante as a flipped FBI agent, instead what I feared they were going to do, which is be Carrie's legit romantic interest. To quibble a bit, it is a shame that they wrote Carrie as being so slow to grasp that Simone was honeytrapping  Wellington. I didnt have an issue with Dante getting drugged; sometimes the person hiding something has to play along, and have a shot or two, to avoid raising suspicion. I'm interested if Dante flipped, as most FBI traitors have done, for a relatively small amount of money, or if there was something else

[dwmarch]

17 minutes ago, Bannon said:

First good episode in a long time. Really a nice twist to have Dante as a flipped FBI agent, instead what I feared they were going to do, which is be Carrie's legit romantic interest. To quibble a bit, it is a shame that they wrote Carrie as being so slow to grasp that Simone was honeytrapping  Wellington. I didnt have an issue with Dante getting drugged; sometimes the person hiding something has to play along, and have a shot or two, to avoid raising suspicion. I'm interested if Dante flipped, as most FBI traitors have done, for a relatively small amount of money, or if there was something else

Out of Money, Ideology, Compromise and Ego, I'd guess ego for Dante as he did hint at a danger addiction earlier in the season.

Carrie was definitely off her game about Simone. I was going to post this in last week's thread but I didn't get around to it. It's like if a CIA agent went to Pakistan to hunt a terrorist and she ended up tracking him down by seducing his nephew but at the same time not being honest with the nephew about why she did it or who she really was.

I liked the casting for Saul's co-worker. They could have went with skinny and conventionally pretty. It's nice to see there are some real people on this show!

I was also glad a certain 24 trope was averted, the one where a jilted lover/romantic interest/etc has to pretend they're happy after finding out they've been betrayed. At first it's going well and then they lose their shit and do something dumb which always ends up alerting the bad guy and allowing them to escape. But Carrie kept it together at least for this episode.

Edited to add: Saul's tradecraft sucks. Instead of playing spy games with thumbtacks and trenchcoats under a bridge somewhere, how about you use the power of your office and send a car to pick the son of a bitch up?

Edited March 19, 2018 by dwmarch
Saul

[HollyG]

So Wellington has been a sap! I didn't see the Dante twist coming at all. Of course it was Saul that caught on quickly. That was amazing. Carrie had barely told him what she was doing and he was able to zero right in on it.  It will be interesting to see what made Dante flip. 

I thought this was a great episode tonight. I can't wait until next week!

[scrb]

I'm trying to remember if previous seasons have been so conspiracy-heavy.

The first season was about a possible Manchurian candidate.  Now, this is some Russian plot to undermine Keane maybe?  Yet the Russian plot may be based on real-life events, where there may actually be a real Manchurian candidate in power.

First there was a conspiracy to undermine Keane during the transition by certain elements of the intelligence community and O'Keefe.  Then an assassination attempt led by a general and some number of soldiers.  Then O'Keefe is trying to stir an insurrection in that small town and the Russians drop in, to provoke a shootout.  Then the general is assassinated, again apparently to undermine Keane.

 

Framing Wellington doesn't make a lot of sense.  It will be her word against his.  What evidence is there that he ordered the hit?  And why would she go along with it?  She's playing the abused girlfriend for the viral video?  And that Senate hearing came across more like a police interrogation than a Congressional hearing, which is typically about speechifying for the cameras, not presenting a prosecutable case.

If Wellington was going to order a hit, would he use his gf, someone he's been seen with for years, someone close to him?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

When Carrie told Janet that she wanted to sit in on the Simone's testimony, I thought that was a dumb move. Simone JUST saw her two nights ago in the bar bathroom when she put a bug in her purse. She doesn't think that Simone would find it at all coincidental that she was then sitting in the back of the room during her testimony in front of the judiciary committee? I know that Washington is a small town, but still.

High five for Huey Lewis at the bar! Hahaha why was Max the one "accused" of playing Journey?

I spent the entire scene where Saul was at the dock waiting for someone to clock him in the back of the head. 

I can't lie. When Carrie opened the door to Dante's place and all five of the guys on the team silently walked in, I wanted to high five someone. Hilarious that as they were going through all of his stuff, Carrie didn't bother to put her shirt back on. Thanks for getting Dante's off before he passed out though, Carrie!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Inside the episode:

[Pallas]

4 hours ago, scrb said:

Framing Wellington doesn't make a lot of sense.  It will be her word against his.  What evidence is there that he ordered the hit?  And why would she go along with it?  

Her sworn word -- before a committee led by a Keane opponent, on an issue where many people already assume the White House was involved -- is more than enough to disrupt Keane's administration and foster further civil unrest. She would go along with it because she's French. 

[teddysmom]

Great episode.  I thought Dante passed out before anything happened.  Carrie and her team are fantastic/hilarious. I still want to know how she gets them to do all this shit for her for no pay and a chance of being sent to prison.  Max, we know is in love with her, but she has a whole crew who jump when she says to. 

Didn't see the Russian being murdered coming.  The woman he met at the house was just on this season of Sneaky Pete, playing a NYC cop.  Actors who can speak fluent Russian are getting a lot of work these days. 

There were a lot of good plot twists here, liked Saul getting a team together. And the guy showing how these bots send out Tweets/Meme's, that is some real world scary shit. Certain people in the electorate may want to take note of where the stupid shit they like on FB is coming from. 

Edited March 19, 2018 by teddysmom

[attica]

3 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I spent the entire scene where Saul was at the dock waiting for someone to clock him in the back of the head. 

You and me both, ElBoog.

Even in such a serious scene, it's marvelously evident how much Mandy Patinkin loves playing scenes with Danes.

It is preposterous that the NSA Muckymuck has time to run all over town doing spy stuff, and not do any WH meetings/briefings/admin stuff.  Clearly, this is a disbelief I'll have to suspend, but: geez.

You know how pickup artists advocate for the use of negging? Has there ever been a neg as neggy as "I didn't mean ['I like you'] like that...." Go on with your bad self, Carrie!

[ahpny]

Quote

Her sworn word -- before a committee led by a Keane opponent, on an issue where many people already assume the White House was involved -- is more than enough to disrupt Keane's administration and foster further civil unrest. She would go along with it because she's French. 

Why Carrie didn't get from the spy cam conversations she and Max heard that falsely targeting Wellington was the goal - and a worthy goal from a chaos-benefitting adversary - was a bit odd. That's what I immediately thought last week. Saul set her right pretty quickly though, but like Carrie, I never saw the Dante angle. 

When Carrie mentioned at the bar that she wasn't drinking and on meds, I thought Dante was going to drug her - I didn't see the reverse coming at all. And what's with Dante's enormous back-to-front tattoo? I know we're a long way from the Hoover-led FBI and his personnel appearance requirements, but I thought enough that persists at the FBI today to make that type of tattoo at least inadvisable. I'm not sure what to make of that, but it hardly seems random.

Criminal procedure question of the day: Regarding the legality or usability of the Wellington spy footage, can Wellington now consent to its use and wipe away any evidentiary objection? More specifically, if Saul and/or Carrie were to come clean to him, and persuade him to bless its use because it exonerates him, would that in fact make it admissible against the girlfriend and her, as yet unknown, employers?

Edited March 19, 2018 by ahpny

[preeya]

1 hour ago, ahpny said:

Criminal procedure question of the day: Regarding the legality or usability of the Wellington spy footage, can Wellington now consent to its use and wipe away any evidentiary objection? More specifically, if Saul and/or Carrie were to come clean to him, and persuade him to give bless its use because it exonerates him, would that in fact make it admissible against the girlfriend and her, as yet unknown, employers?

Great thought; it seems feasible to me. Any legal minds willing to take a stab at this one?

Edited March 19, 2018 by preeya

[Quark]

What an episode. I loved when Saul and Carrie met up and he instantly figured out what's going on.

[Loandbehold]

2 hours ago, ahpny said:

Criminal procedure question of the day: Regarding the legality or usability of the Wellington spy footage, can Wellington now consent to its use and wipe away any evidentiary objection? More specifically, if Saul and/or Carrie were to come clean to him, and persuade him to bless its use because it exonerates him, would that in fact make it admissible against the girlfriend and her, as yet unknown, employers?

Depends on the state / jurisdiction. When there's no warrant, in some places, only one person has to consent to tape a conversation. In others, both (all) have to. I do not know D.C.'s law. I'm assuming D.C., but he could also live in Va. or Maryland. There would be other problems w/ Wellington using the tape to exonerate himself. It's probably a violation of for the Chief of Staff to be taping and video inside his home since he deals with many sensitive and top secret documents and conversations. Even if they tell him about the taping, he's not out of the woods.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I loved that their meeting was so father/daughter. Initially he was worried about her and wanted to make sure that she was okay. He was so gentle but you could see he was a little bit afraid. Then he got mad when he realized what she had done. And even though he was still angry about what she’d done, he still helped her figure out what had really happened by asking her questions that would lead her to the answer (even though he’d already figured it out). Lastly, he was still mad but his final bit of advice was intended to protect her. And what does the teenage daughter do? Ignores her dad’s advice. Of course!

Edited March 19, 2018 by ElectricBoogaloo

[crookedjackson44]

The not-Max computer geek/spy and the animation was the best presentation I've seen of how bots can use social media to spread disinformation very rapidly.  We all know what the reference is.

[Ottis]

19 hours ago, HollyG said:

Of course it was Saul that caught on quickly. That was amazing. Carrie had barely told him what she was doing and he was able to zero right in on it.

This is what the show has been missing, IMO. Both Carrie and Saul seem to have blind spots on their own. Together, they see much more. Watching them screw up individually isn't much fun.

9 hours ago, crookedjackson44 said:

The not-Max computer geek/spy and the animation was the best presentation I've seen of how bots can use social media to spread disinformation very rapidly.  We all know what the reference is.

That was the moment when I became very interest in this ep. It finally seemed to be saying something.

I also liked the verbal battle between the two Russians and the "old way" and the new way, and the meaning for the rest of the world.

Edited March 20, 2018 by Ottis

[attica]

48 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

And what does the teenage daughter do? Ignores her dad’s advice. Of course!

Yeah, but tbf, Saul doesn't know about Carrie's Scoobysquad. 

Those of us old enough will remember that Maryland brought (and then finally dropped) charges of wiretapping against Linda Tripp for recording her phone conversations with Monica Lewinsky, since ML didn't consent to be recorded.

[grommit2]

Nice explanation of how quickly fake news gets replicated on the web ("species jump"). 
Nice twist on who Simone Martin really is working for...and how they trap Wellington with their social media charade.
And it appears that FBI Dante is a bad guy...geez, it is really difficult to tell the bad guys without their uniforms.
And, alas, I still miss Quinn...HE would unravel this and save the day.  SIGH

[ahpny]

Quote

Those of us old enough will remember that Maryland brought (and then finally dropped) charges of wiretapping against Linda Tripp for recording her phone conversations with Monica Lewinsky, since ML didn't consent to be recorded.

Maryland, unlike both DC and Virginia, requires the consent of all parties of a conversation. DC and Virginia require the consent of only one - which presumably could be Wellington, if that consent can arise after the conversation ends, which is not so clear. See https://www.rcfp.org/reporters-recording-guide/state-state-guide. Video may also be a discrete issue.

[ruby24]

Hey, the guy from The Americans! I love that guy.

I love how the show constantly displays how actually awful Carrie is at her job. She spent the entire first half of this season being played by a Russian double agent and helping him undermine the country, and she trusted him so fully that it was Max of all people who had to convince her she shouldn't tell him about the surveillance just because he was FBI. 

I'm choosing to blame it on her medication imbalance, because otherwise she's just really fucking things up for no reason (she doesn't even work for anyone!)

[healthnut]

I’m not convinced Dante is bad, did I miss something? Why did Ivan page Saul? To watch him die? I may need to watch this one again, I’m so confused. 

[Catznip]

Carrie was a bad ass in this episode, i hope they continue to write her character as such.  One thing i don't understand is why the writers continue to flip on Carrie from being a smart, intelligent agent  in one episode to a babbling incoherent  bipolar idiot. As i expect the bipolar will come back in later episodes to undermine her intelligence.

[macrone]

1 hour ago, healthnut said:

Why did Ivan page Saul? To watch him die?

No. Ivan was going to expose Yevgeny. He wasn't planning to die.

[ruby24]

46 minutes ago, Catznip said:

Carrie was a bad ass in this episode, i hope they continue to write her character as such.  One thing i don't understand is why the writers continue to flip on Carrie from being a smart, intelligent agent  in one episode to a babbling incoherent  bipolar idiot. As i expect the bipolar will come back in later episodes to undermine her intelligence.

Supposedly her disorder helps her to figure things out and see things no one else can see, as she spelled out a couple episodes ago.

I have not seen a shred of evidence of that over the entire series.

[Norma Desmond]

14 hours ago, teddysmom said:

Max, we know is in love with her, but she has a whole crew who jump when she says to. 

Every man in the world is in love or lust with Carrie. Kinda baffles the mind.

[SuprSuprElevated]

15 hours ago, teddysmom said:

Certain people in the electorate may want to take note of where the stupid shit they like on FB is coming from. 

Or the NY Times.

[Yakima]

15 hours ago, teddysmom said:

 

"Didn't see the Russian being murdered coming.  The woman he met at the house was just on this season of Sneaky Pete, playing a NYC cop.  Actors who can speak fluent Russian are getting a lot of work these days."

 

 She looked like the newspaper woman from Hell on Wheels.

 

 

Edited March 20, 2018 by Yakima

[Joan van Snark]

I must be forgetting what happened to Dar Adal last season.  I miss him this season.

[Pike Ludwell]

As to an above post: NYT endeavors to state the truth. In terms of capitalism, the truth is its bread and butter. Otherwise it loses share to the Washington post or others. When a reporter screws up and publishes something false, they immediately retract and apologize. For Facebook, on the other hand, the truth is irrelevant to its profit or loss, except we may be seeing that change now that we are seeing its stock price affected.

Edited March 20, 2018 by riverclown

[Loandbehold]

16 hours ago, ruby24 said:

Supposedly her disorder helps her to figure things out and see things no one else can see, as she spelled out a couple episodes ago.

I have not seen a shred of evidence of that over the entire series.

In the first season, during a manic period, she discovered that the main terrorist had gone silent for a period of time. Turned out that was after his son was killed by the VP-ordered drone strike. Saul realized it after Carrie was taken away. She had all this stuff on her wall w/ different colored hi-lighters. It hasn't been shown as starkly since the first season.

[slowpoked]

This is a great episode, one of the better ones after a streak of slow-build up episodes. I was really excited about this season when it opened with Carrie doing her spy shit in episode 1. And then it dragged forever when O'Keefe became the focus of the next few ones. I don't think it's a coincidence the season picked up significantly once that storyline is over. Didn't see the Dante twist coming. I've said that Saul is an old dog who cannot learn new tricks anymore, and that he was pretty useless in that Lucasville situation, but kudos to him for seeing through what Carrie was thinking about but couldn't see. I thought their relationship was one of the best parts of Homeland, and while they're no longer in the same world, I'm glad they figured out how to still work together.

[grommit2]

On 3/19/2018 at 6:44 PM, healthnut said:

I’m not convinced Dante is bad, did I miss something? Why did Ivan page Saul? To watch him die? I may need to watch this one again, I’m so confused. 

My 2 cents: Ivan paged Saul to tell him that he identified the "new" Russian evil. But, alas, Ivan was taken out.  Oh well.

[Pallas]

On 3/20/2018 at 6:26 AM, Joan van Snark said:

I must be forgetting what happened to Dar Adal last season.  I miss him this season.

He's in jail for his latest black ops escapade, which got out of his hands and this time, nearly killed the President-Elect on the streets of New York City,  and did kill several others, including Peter Quinn. 

[Mindthinkr]

On 3/19/2018 at 12:09 AM, Joimiaroxeu said:

If Dante's a double agent he's not a very good one, IMO. They drugged him at the bar, right? That move gets pulled on young college coeds and one woudn't expect a trained spy to fall for it.

I thought that he did mention something about the taste or one of the other cohorts did to allay suspicion. So the crew was probably drinking water shots and he was being fed real tequila laced. I loved when he passed out and they all came in ready to step into action. Carrie sure has some loyal friends for someone who is allegedly out of the game. 

[Pallas]

3 hours ago, Mindthinkr said:

So the crew was probably drinking water shots and he was being fed real tequila laced. I loved when he passed out and they all came in ready to step into action. Carrie sure has some loyal friends for someone who is allegedly out of the game. 

I think maybe they're all out of the game?, and glad that ever since they took the call from Carrie, they're not the ones passing out at the end of the night. Plus, taking out the guy not named Quinn, who's been messing with Carrie. Bonus. And he's with the Bureau, not the Company. Double bonus. Not to mention, they get to to play on their home field and this time, the government they're either saving or saving is their own. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

11 hours ago, Mindthinkr said:

I thought that he did mention something about the taste or one of the other cohorts did to allay suspicion. So the crew was probably drinking water shots and he was being fed real tequila laced.

Carrie's crew made sure to mention the bad taste and the less than great quality of the tequila so that Dante wouldn't be suspect that he was being drugged.

[Lemons]

Has anyone see Le Bureau, the French version of Homeland?  It's on Sundance Now currently, the first three season.  It's excellent.

[SuprSuprElevated]

18 minutes ago, Lemons said:

Has anyone see Le Bureau, the French version of Homeland?  It's on Sundance Now currently, the first three season.  It's excellent.

Wish I had that channel.  We have Sundance, but not Sundance Now.  Amazon wants $20 bucks per season to stream.  I'll wait and see if it pops up elsewhere for free.

[Lemons]

Just now, SuprSuprElevated said:

Wish I had that channel.  We have Sundance, but not Sundance Now.  Amazon wants $20 bucks per season to stream.  I'll wait and see if it pops up elsewhere for free.

I added Sundance Now on Amazon for, I think $6 per month.  Then cancel once you've seen everything.  I loved it.  It really gave you a realistic idea of what the French intelligence is like and what they are contributing in Syria right now.  Of course the CIA is in there around season 2.  There's also realistic scenes in Iran.   No big blasts or car chases or gun rights like Homeland of course!   It's worth adding Sundance Now for a month or so.