S08.E11: Dead or Alive Or

[CletusMusashi]

The best characater motivation I can come up with for Tara is that she follows one person at a time. So when she was Glenn's henchwench, I liked her, because Glenn brought out the good in most people. Now, she only answers to Rick, and if Rick is a stupid, crazy, short sighted buffoon, then so is Tara.

[nodorothyparker]

This episode was a great example of what happens when you kill off many of the more interesting characters:  You get stuck trying yet again make Tara a character we're supposed to sympathize with and not someone we're rooting for the swamp zombies to pull under.  Does Tara seriously not remember that when we met her was she blindly following old Gov. One Eye to attack a camp of people she didn't know and had never done anything to anyone she knew purely on his say so and because he'd managed to talk other morons out of a tank?  And all of this is over a girlfriend we barely remember because she only got maybe 30 minutes of screentime total and only four minutes of that was about their doomed relationship before she was killed what now feels like six seasons ago.  Meanwhile, these idiots are blundering through trees that look exactly like every other clump of trees with a Rand McNally map while trying to figure out the geography and presumably distance from Alexandria to Hilltop like we haven't watched them trek back and forth regularly between the communities for the past two seasons and oh hey, isn't that a swamp that we somehow never noticed was there before?  But I guess if the show wanted me to be rooting for Dwight in that, congrats.  Mission accomplished even if left me halfway hoping that he'd be the doublecrosser Tara and Daryl have been so busy accusing him being to put a bullet in her.

I get that the show has struggled to find a story for FPP that's worth Seth Gilliam's talents, but to spend a hour watching him repeatedly insist that God has a plan in all this only to end up worse off than he started with ever diminishing "butthole vision," as one poster characterized it, or in my husband's words the worst case of zombie pink eye ever felt particularly nihilist even for this show.  It also highlights how neither show in the franchise has ever managed to have any consistency where the use or effects of zombie guts as cammo have been concerned.  First season they were all about protective gear but then dropped it entirely to let guts fly everywhere and on anything, including open wounds, and Daryl was sticking arrows that he'd pulled out of them into his mouth with nary a concern.  And only now in the back half of season eight are we supposed to take them seriously as possible biological weapons again?

It's telling to me in what the show is prioritizing that Negan was given ample time last episode to mourn and monologue over Carl's death, but the people who had been with him from the beginning like Carol and Daryl or like Maggie who had been with him in possibly the most traumatic moment of his short life in killing Lori got only a few seconds of wordless montage to react to his loss.  No, I don't need the show to become an endless dirge for its dead, but it would have been nice for it to have given even half a damn about its own history and the characters that got us here.

[TattleTeeny]

OK, everyone, I am still a fan of the show and all but that doesn't mean that I don't have some issues now and then--and this is coming from someone who was not at all bugged by the Glenn-under-the-dumpster trick:

First, IF people can be infected by merely getting zombie guts into their bodies even without getting bit, why are are they just realizing this now? Further, again IF that is the case, why have we not seen more people drop dead from that scenario after countless goo-strewn fights--not to mention the instances of "wearing" defensive zombie-gut camo--among people who are bound to have a few fresh or open wounds, along with eyes and mouths that surely have been compromised at some points during gory, violent, and splashy walker encounters? Come on.

Edited March 12, 2018 by TattleTeeny

[TattleTeeny]

I believe Dwight too!

[nodorothyparker]

The constant revolving door of "we need a doctor, have to have to have a doctor for Maggie" when it will clearly be season 12 of this before she's even visibly pregnant is starting to feel like old school Murphy Brown's parade of secretaries who'd be there one episode and replaced by a new model by the next.  Even in Saddiq asking if there was a hospital around for him to help at, Maggie was looking at him like yeah, go there and then we won't see you again until another one drops in out of the sky and you get killed horribly.

[TattleTeeny]

I think it would be insane and ridiculous not to show characters reacting to the loss of Carl.

[EllipticalAddicted]

47 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

The constant revolving door of "we need a doctor, have to have to have a doctor for Maggie" when it will clearly be season 12 of this before she's even visibly pregnant is starting to feel like old school Murphy Brown's parade of secretaries who'd be there one episode and replaced by a new model by the next.  Even in Saddiq asking if there was a hospital around for him to help at, Maggie was looking at him like yeah, go there and then we won't see you again until another one drops in out of the sky and you get killed horribly.

At this point, Maggie being pregnant has killed so many people.    It's how this whole thing with Negan got started, right??!   I am so sick of the emphasis on her, on her baby (when it's convenient), and how it's VITAL that a doctor be found for her even when securing a doctor manages to kill everyone.    It has made me absolutely hate her character and wish that she would get killed off.   The show has tried to force down our throats that Maggie is the Bestest!!!!:   a super strong woman leader who does whatever it takes, represents all that is good, makes just and moral decisions, blah blah blah.   Instead, it's done just the opposite and created a character that I root against, roll my eyes at and consider her a cartoonish dolt.  

 

The show can take her ridiculous ever-changing southern accent, her mad "I'm serious now!!" face, her representation of all the good that Rick isn't and shove it where the sun don't shine.

Edited March 12, 2018 by EllipticalAddicted

[AngelaHunter]

31 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Does he stick around to keep her safe, or does he run off again with Michonne?

The worst part is that he ran off to keep JADIS safe and warn her about the Saviors.

24 minutes ago, TattleTeeny said:

I think it would be insane and ridiculous not to show characters reacting to the loss of Carl.

I don't recall anyone mentioning Glenn, who was there since Day 1, except the time that Daryl made it all about him and his anguish and Maggie had to comfort HIM.

 

56 minutes ago, TattleTeeny said:

First, IF people can be infected by merely getting zombie guts into their bodies even without getting bit, why are are they just realizing this now?

Why would it only happen now? The countless times people have been covered with zombie gore but it's only now becoming a means of infection? Why didn't Rick zombify after this, when his face and mouth and all those cuts were running with zombie blood 'n guts?

 

 

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

Why would it only happen now? The countless times people have been covered with zombie gore but it's only now becoming a means of infection? Why didn't Rick zombify after this, when his face and mouth and all those cuts were running with zombie blood 'n guts?

Exactly. Even if they didn't realize it right away, fine--but in all this time, surely someone would have gotten a faceful or into cuts on their beat-up hands. There's just no way it's just dawning on them now if it's always been an issue! So many more people would be dead by splatters!

[festivus]

8 hours ago, AgentRXS said:

All I can say is that The Walking Dead is slowly inching closer to surpassing Sleepy Hollow when it comes to be a prime example of How to Royally Fuck Up a Good Thing and Piss of Your Loyal Fanbase.

I've been thinking the same thing. I'm going to give the edge to TWD now though because they had a much bigger fanbase to fuck up.

[nodorothyparker]

We've argued for pages across multiple threads over multiple seasons who did what to who first, but yeah, the fact remains that things came to a head with Negan and the Neganettes and Glenn and Abraham lost theirs because most of the named cast had to take Maggie to a doctor at Hilltop.

10 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

I don't recall anyone mentioning Glenn, who was there since Day 1, except the time that Daryl made it all about him and his anguish and Maggie had to comfort HIM.

There was a perfectly perfect opening when the young pretty Savior who was whining about being POWs for like a whole day was exclaiming that they were being treated like enemies.  That's where Maggie rightly should have pointed out that their crew made the choice to be that when their head Fonzie took a baseball bat to her husband and that's why he's not here now.  But Maggie is only allowed to remember Glenn or anybody when she has to prop another character's grief, right Enid?  The atrocious accent certainly doesn't help matters, but I don't know how we as viewers are supposed to feel much of anything about Maggie when she never seems to feel much of anything because she's too busy "leading."

[Ohwell]

I got tired of looking at FFP's blind, sweaty sick face.  I hope we've seen the last of him this season.

1 hour ago, nodorothyparker said:

It also highlights how neither show in the franchise has ever managed to have any consistency where the use or effects of zombie guts as cammo have been concerned.  First season they were all about protective gear but then dropped it entirely to let guts fly everywhere and on anything, including open wounds, and Daryl was sticking arrows that he'd pulled out of them into his mouth with nary a concern.  And only now in the back half of season eight are we supposed to take them seriously as possible biological weapons again?

Yeah I was wondering about that.  Makes no sense.

[TattleTeeny]

When we first saw the guts-camo, I thought it was a good idea. But then I pondered (and perhaps obsessed over) it, and decided that I don't even get why it works. If a walker can sniff out a human among a big zombie crowd--a crowd that already does smell like decayed walker--because that is exactly what is is!--then why would a relatively thin layer of fluids and entrails be able to really cover up people scent? And, Michonne was able to disguise herself simply by walking tethered to "neutered" zombies, so doesn't that mena that the guts-bath is overkill?

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

Besides this, most of the walkers they are finding now are severely decayed. Even if they launch walkers over the wall, they are bound to practically splat and break apart due to the force of impact and be more of a smelly nuisance than anything else.

Haha, the mess alone would make me mad enough to fight back!

[Shopkeeper]

12 hours ago, shanndee said:

Yes! I've seen that preview a couple of times now ("Terror"). It does look good. Does anyone know if it is based on the Shackleton Antarctic expedition?

Other Pole. "Terror" is based on the Franklin expedition to find the Northwest Passage; or rather, based on Dan Simmon's novel about that expedition, which injects some decidedly non-historical speculation into what is already a very sad and creepy tale. 

And I have nothing useful to say about TWD.

[Dobian]

1 hour ago, AngelaHunter said:

Why would it only happen now? The countless times people have been covered with zombie gore but it's only now becoming a means of infection? Why didn't Rick zombify after this, when his face and mouth and all those cuts were running with zombie blood 'n guts?

This show conveniently ignores reality except when they want to use it as a plot is why.  First of all, people should never be running up and stabbing them in the head with a knife, they should all be equipped with spears to kill them from a safe distance.  And they should have scavenged bows and a stockpile of arrows for everyone to minimize the use of guns which are noisy.  It's absurd that only Daryl runs around with a bow, like it's his personal gimmick or something.  He should be teaching everyone how to use a bow.  And just find crossbows for the bow-challenged.

[ShadowHunter]

2 hours ago, TattleTeeny said:

I think it would be insane and ridiculous not to show characters reacting to the loss of Carl.

Yes. That was the more interesting thing to happen this episode and it was rushed because we had to see Dwight and Tara.

[AngelaHunter]

35 minutes ago, PoshSprinkles said:

Even if they launch walkers over the wall, they are bound to practically splat and break apart due to the force of impact and be more of a smelly nuisance than anything else.

This is probably exactly why the writers decided on this. "Oh, man! Just picture it! Zombies smashing and splattering everywhere! Pow! Smack! Gush! Biggest gross-out ever! So cool, right? What? Contact with zombie gore has never infected anyone before? So who cares? New ZA rule!"

1 hour ago, TattleTeeny said:

Michonne was able to disguise herself simply by walking tethered to "neutered" zombies,

I never got that, because walking with two zombies on chains is no different than walking with no chain. If anyone else walked in front of a couple of zombies, all the others wouldn't fail to recognize a human being in front of them. That was just so dumb.

[rab01]

2 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

If you were Eugene, would you trust her?  I wouldn't have been at all surprised if Nagen put her up to it.  She was after something, and it wasn't Eugene.  It isn't as though Eugene is some great romantic person.

Who said anything about trust?  ;)  j/k

Of course you're right that he shouldn't trust her (he shouldn't trust any savior) but Eugene is supposed to be smart and into self-preservation so work it out -- (1) if she's a spy, treat her well and try to get information from her as she is trying to get it from you; (2) if she's just the boss' "wife" who's been sent there to be generically useful, treat her well because she is the boss' wife, (3) if she's just trying to be useful and pleasant because she has to be there anyway so might as well make friends, then treat her well because you could use more people in the Savior compound who don't hate you.    

Anyway you slice it, the smart play (and the decent play) is for Eugene to attempt to not be a sexist asshole.   He just should absolutely never try to be romantic with her unless he enjoys hot irons.  

[iMonrey]

I still wanted Negan to bash Eugene's head in with Lucille. I'm just so over Eugene, nothing he does to help anyone at this point is going to redeem him in my eyes.

You know, since the show only killed off Carl as a ratings/publicity ploy, rather than an organic or logical story development, it seems like it would have made more sense to kill off Maggie instead. I've never really seen her as anything but an appendage of Glenn. I know she's been around since Season 2 but she's always been part of Glenn and Maggie. Now Glenn is gone, and so is Hershel and so is Beth. I just don't see a point to Maggie anymore. It doesn't feel like she has any significant connection to the show anymore. 

[TVJunkee]

1 hour ago, Shopkeeper said:

Other Pole. "Terror" is based on the Franklin expedition to find the Northwest Passage; or rather, based on Dan Simmon's novel about that expedition, which injects some decidedly non-historical speculation into what is already a very sad and creepy tale. 

And I have nothing useful to say about TWD.

The Dan Simmons book was SO scary I had to repeatedly take a break to catch a breath and try to get warm.  Not sure how they will capture that on TV.   The books is also a long slog at 769 pages, but worth it. 

As is Stephen King's recent Sleeping Beauties with 700+ pages, but blood and gore till the very end. 

Can you tell I love a Fat, Scary Book?

[tennisgurl]

You know what I really came away from this episode with? I am actually super pumped to watch The Terror when it starts. A historical mystery/thriller based on true tragic, creepy events with a bunch of alumni from other shows I've liked? Its like Master and Commander meets The Thing, its exactly my jam!

Probably not the most ringing endorsement of this episodes quality that the thing that must stuck out is another show. 

[AngelaHunter]

5 hours ago, xaxat said:

Gabriel's "God's will" plot was so interminable.

Not  only interminable, but totally pointless. All Gabe's "He is leading us. He is with us" with the manna from Heaven - the cabin and the pills and the piggy bank and blah blah - then Ben gets blown away and FPP is taken prisoner. If there was a point to this painful and incredibly heavy-handed interlude, I failed to see it.

 

5 hours ago, xaxat said:

Tara: I don't care what I was told to do, I'm gonna kill him! I'm gonna kill him the first chance I get.

And yeah, shooting off guns in the woods is such a good idea, just in case all the yelling and arguing and crashing around wasn't enough to draw the attention of the Saviors, who seem to be everywhere at all times.

 

tennisgurl said:

Quote

The Terror when it starts. A historical mystery/thriller based on true tragic, creepy events with a bunch of alumni from other shows I've liked? Its like Master and Commander meets The Thing, its exactly my jam!

Me too! I love anything historical/naval (Master&Commander - loved!) and love creeping horror (The Thing - OMG). I even liked "Virus." I just hope "Terror" doesn't let us down.

[Lamima]

I want to watch this new show, Terror. Also saw some clip with Giovoni Ribissi....Sneaky Pete?? Might have to check that out.

[sarthaz]

This show doesn't make any fucking sense anymore. It's just one episode after another where a character does something stupid and stirs up shit just to drive the plot.  Love how Daryl's mad at Tara for not listening to him when it was basically 5 minutes ago that he abandoned Rick's plan because REASONS!. Honestly, I was hoping Dwight would just kill Tara.  At this point, the list of characters I don't want to die is very small.

People complain about Negan chewing up the scenery, but at least his motivations are mostly consistent. I have no clue what anyone else on this show is doing from one week to the next.

Edited March 12, 2018 by sarthaz

[Dakisela]

15 hours ago, Sparger Springs said:

Well how long has it been in walking dead time since Glen was killed about 2 weeks?

THIS.  I was just wondering this. Since one event is dragged over several episodes, who knows?   Does anyone know?  A month maybe????

[iMonrey]

Quote

Tara's can't switch sides comment still pisses me off.  Not because the actress said it, but it I think it is a clear sign that the writers and show runner aren't paying attention to the history of the show.   I am waiting for the writing to get so bad that at some point I am sure we will find out that Nagen is Rick's long lost brother.  Rick will wonder into a house some where and grab a photo album.  He will see a little baby Nagen sitting with a little bitty Lucille bat next to him,  while baby Rick is playing with a little police car all in the same photo.

Well, to be fair, Tara switched sides immediately after the Governor killed Hershel. Tara herself never killed anyone in his service, although she might have been prepared to do so to take over the prison - we just don't know. Once she saw for herself how demented the Gov really was, she switched. Dwight, on the other hand, killed Denise, deliberately. (I know he said he was aiming for someone else but either way, he was trying to kill someone). I'm kind of with Tara on this one - there's no coming back from that and no reason for her to get over it and forgive him.

[Racj82]

6 hours ago, TattleTeeny said:

I think it would be insane and ridiculous not to show characters reacting to the loss of Carl.

Yeah it would. That' why we got it. I' saying I don' need a third episode full if reactions. I've had my fill.

[rab01]

I can't believe it's been almost a day since the show aired and there's only 2 pages in this thread. *sigh* How the mighty have fallen.

Anyone else think the writers gave Tara the "you can't just switch sides" line specifically because she did switch? To heighten the irony and to relate it when she does eventually forgive him?

... <little voice> just me?  ok, then; yeah it's probably too much credit to give them <little voice>

[peach]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

Well, to be fair, Tara switched sides immediately after the Governor killed Hershel. Tara herself never killed anyone in his service, although she might have been prepared to do so to take over the prison - we just don't know. Once she saw for herself how demented the Gov really was, she switched. Dwight, on the other hand, killed Denise, deliberately. (I know he said he was aiming for someone else but either way, he was trying to kill someone). I'm kind of with Tara on this one - there's no coming back from that and no reason for her to get over it and forgive him.

 

32 minutes ago, rab01 said:

Anyone else think the writers gave Tara the "you can't just switch sides" line specifically because she did switch? To heighten the irony and to relate it when she does eventually forgive him?

... <little voice> just me?  ok, then; yeah it's probably too much credit to give them <little voice>

It would just be a lot more interesting if someone SAID something about it.  Even ONE fucking line.  Daryl was there then.  He could just say, like when you were with the Governor?  Boom.  And/or have a few lines of her arguing @iMonrey's point.  This show teases everything and never EVER delivers a payoff.

41 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

Yeah it would. That' why we got it. I' saying I don' need a third episode full if reactions. I've had my fill.

I can totally understand why someone would feel that way, but it just underscores the point that they've handled it so badly.  It was their stupid decision in the first place to kill Carl, and have that pall hang over the rest of the season.  Then they dragged it out to have a speechifyin' episode to "honor" the kid they screwed over, partially out of guilt, imo, and to avoid more fan blowback.  Then we get a garbage heap episode and seeing how NEGAN feels about it, which just pisses me off.  Then, finally after all of this shit....we see Daryl just mouth the word "Carl" and there's some girlfriend crying...and...that's it. 

Oh, wait, there was also CAROL...just shrugging her shoulders, saying, wow, can't believe it was just while helping a stranger.  OH WELL.  I don't even have enough cuss words for this.  (My aggravated tone is directed at the show, not @Racj82)  Melissa McBride's twitter was more heartfelt and emotional about it than they let her character be!

Edited March 12, 2018 by peach
keep leaving stuff out

[TattleTeeny]

49 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

Yeah it would. That' why we got it. I' saying I don' need a third episode full if reactions. I've had my fill.

OK? I was just responding to your previous remark that said it's been two episodes' worth but it actually hasn't. 

Edited March 12, 2018 by TattleTeeny

[peach]

2 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

Not  only interminable, but totally pointless. All Gabe's "He is leading us. He is with us" with the manna from Heaven - the cabin and the pills and the piggy bank and blah blah - then Ben gets blown away and FPP is taken prisoner. If there was a point to this painful and incredibly heavy-handed interlude, I failed to see it..

I actually think the point was supposed to be that God did have a plan, and that was to bring Siddiq to the Hilltop for St Maggie and her baby that isn't due for at least four years.  I'm basing that on her little, thoughtful, half smile when she finally met him, and with it being at the end of episode.  So everyone else can die or have their life go to hell in a handbasket, but Siddiq is here now.  Then she smiled again when she heard them call out that Rick was arriving.  That's sure what I would do, upon hearing that his son just died.  I'd smile about the future.

It did occur to me that her smile meant maybe Lauren was thinking, maybe my pilot will get picked up.
 

I suppose there's a chance there will be more character interaction about Carl dying when Rick and Michonne arrive.  But I'm sure it will be terrible.

[peach]

6 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

If Rick could just find his murder coat, maybe he could finally kill Negan.

[AngelaHunter]

1 minute ago, peach said:

If Rick could just find his murder coat, maybe he could finally kill Negan.

I thought that WAS his murder coat? The suede jacket with the sheepskin collar he wears no matter how everyone is sweating? I guess those stains just would NOT come out.

6 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

But Maggie is only allowed to remember Glenn or anybody when she has to prop another character's grief, right Enid? 

Daryl? We're looking at you.

[Boofish]

17 hours ago, peach said:

Okay, well, I'll watch The Terror if you guys will.  Just so we can talk about it.

I'll take a piece of that

I'm still a fan and enjoy most of dynamics between characters. The lack of self awareness is the only thing I can't get past - Tara (UGH) and the Saviors begging to be treated with decency.

I do however think too much damage has been done for Negan to ever be a part of the long term survival plan. 

[peach]

6 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

I thought that WAS his murder coat? The suede jacket with the sheepskin collar he wears no matter how everyone is sweating? I guess those stains just would NOT come out.

Yes, that's a picture of his murder coat.  He didn't bring it to the war.  He had on a khaki or denim type shirt (or maybe it used to be white, lol).  Khaki is not murdery enough.

[peach]

7 minutes ago, Boofish said:

I'll take a piece of that

Maybe we can ask one of our fearless moderators here to make sure there is a page for The Terror when it starts.  Especially since there aren't 15 pages of posts to monitor here anymore.

[Nashville]

11 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Maybe the path was for Gabriel to incorrectly sort the casings, causing catastrophic failures in Savior guns.  I kind of suspect Eugene is planning on slipping in defective ammo to hurt the Saviors anyway.

THIS was the only plot rationale I could see for the entire Eugene schtick: due to whatever motivations (which may shift in time) for Eugene to start out making a few thousand rounds of ammo to spec (so the Saviors are lulled into not questioning its quality) - then seriously overload the cartridges on a shipment and send them all out at once, so the Saviors’ weapons all simultaneously start blowing up in their hands.

 

8 hours ago, TattleTeeny said:

First, IF people can be infected by merely getting zombie guts into their bodies even without getting bit, why are are they just realizing this now? 

 

Because the show has specifically, repeatedly stated that such is not true.  

Definitive evidence: S5Ep16 (“Conquer9) - the day after Rick and Dr. Porchdick Pete’s sub-epic street fight...

• That evening, Deanna is calling a “town meeting” to push the notion of expelling Rick from the ASZ.  
• A banged-up Rick - Steri-Strips all over his face to hold shut the cuts sustained in yesterday’s fight with Pete - is late getting to the meeting, though, because he ends up engaging in solo combat with some walkers who slipped into the ASZ compound because Spencer forgot to properly latch the main gate. 
• In his struggle with the last Walker, Rick is pinned underneath it, and escapes only by burrowing his Python into its abdomen and blowing its brains out via a bottoms-up shot from its own rib cage - and in the process, his freshly-cut face is bathed in walker gore.
• ...after which Bloody Rick shoulders the walker, goes to the town meeting, and chucks it at Deanna’s feet to illustrate their sense of security is all illusion.

In the TWD timeline that was something like 2-1/2 months ago, and Rick has never shown any ill effects from exposure to walker juices in his cuts - in his eyes - in his open MOUTH, for crying out loud.

So unless TPTB plan to claim Rick is the only person on the planet immune to the ZVirus, their own story line screams bullshit.

 

 

Edited March 12, 2018 by Nashville
Added imagery

[AngelaHunter]

4 minutes ago, Nashville said:

his freshly-cut face is bathed in walker gore.

As is clearly seen in the pic I posted. Yep, goo right on the facial wounds.

 

32 minutes ago, peach said:

Yes, that's a picture of his murder coat.  He didn't bring it to the war. 

OH, right. He should wear his murder coat more often because (and I hate myself for this) it makes him look, well -  kinda hot.

 

[tricknasty]

AMC, please stop showing Morgan on FTWD commercials. I love Morgan but not enough to follow him to that POS show. And I know that makes me a hypocrite since I watch this POS show, but I have years invested in this. Norman Reedus has the easiest job on the planet with only having to memorize 2-3 lines a week (and 1 grunt).

[AngelaHunter]

1 minute ago, tricknasty said:

Norman Reedus has the easiest job on the planet with only having to memorize 2-3 lines a week

Hey, he spoke at least 4 complete sentences this week! I think.

I was just reading the Live Chat. I am laughing like a fool. It's so much more clever and entertaining than this garbage show.

[Gobi]

21 hours ago, ShadowHunter said:

Maggie had a sonogram picture they were passing it around in the bus.  You couldn't see much just a little something. Not sure how long she was pregnant before he got killed.

The show mentions that she is pregnant when it fits the plot.

That wasn't a sonogram photo, it was a picture of the Loch Ness monster.

[Quilty]

This show is running out of character's I care about.

Care-Rick,Carol,Michone,Rosita maybe Ezekiel 

Don't Care-Enid,Maggie,Daryl,Jesus,Morgan,FPP,The new guy that got Carl killed,Tara,Dwight,Eugene,Negan

As I've read several times I think I'm also officially hate watching this show.?

[jackjill89]

Well, at least Maggie is untucking her shirts now. She has the same gestation period of an elephant. 

I am incredibly disappointed in this show. I keep hoping things will turn around, but it's not happening. It's just too big. It was better when it was the core group. The world getting bigger was not a good thing for this show.  I don't feel like I know anyone anymore. They are writing for plot and not for character. They shoved Negan down our throats. The best characters are the ones you love or hate on your own, not the ones you're told to feel a certain way about. 

Ugh. 

[AwesomO4000]

14 hours ago, EllipticalAddicted said:

At this point, Maggie being pregnant has killed so many people.    It's how this whole thing with Negan got started, right??! 

13 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

We've argued for pages across multiple threads over multiple seasons who did what to who first, but yeah, the fact remains that things came to a head with Negan and the Neganettes and Glenn and Abraham lost theirs because most of the named cast had to take Maggie to a doctor at Hilltop.

I can't even remember what happened in regards to this. It seemed like Maggie was going to croak any minute due to some complication that I never figured out what it was unless they got a doctor, but then they didn't get a doctor right away, because they got captured for a minute and Gen and Abraham got killed ... and then I'm chagrined to say that forgot what happened next. Did Maggie see a doctor? And if so what was so urgent? Whatever it was, it doesn't seem to be affecting her now, and do pregnancies actually work that way (I must admit I never had kids so I don't know much about this, but I pretty much thought if you had complications you kind of had to be somewhat careful after that - my sister did.)

Okay while I'm asking questions... I'm no longer watching this show*** - just reading the threads to keep up - and I can't believe I'm asking this, but they had Negan find out about Carl dying before Carol and Darryl? How? And why? And what could he possibly have said about Carl that I would be interested in hearing? Were we supposed to believe that Negan was sad or something even though Negan was going to cut Carl's hand off not that long ago? And why would I give a shit about what Negan had to say about Carl? I hate Negan. I wouldn't want him saying a thing about Carl. if I had watched, I bet that all I would have been thinking as Negan was talking is "Die! Die! Why couldn't you be dead and Carl still be alive, you annoying, one-dimensional, buffoon of a character!" ...Rant over

*deep breath* Sorry about that.

*** After the midseason finale showed me Carl was going to die I said "I quit" and I meant it.

[Smad]

16 hours ago, TattleTeeny said:

Exactly. Even if they didn't realize it right away, fine--but in all this time, surely someone would have gotten a faceful or into cuts on their beat-up hands. There's just no way it's just dawning on them now if it's always been an issue! So many more people would be dead by splatters!

I think it's par for the course with this show that if they want a plot to go ahead it will, whether it makes sense or not. The few times we have seen people wear Zombie guts they had a protective layer on (Glenn/Rick in S1, Carol in S5). At the same time they shot and stabbed away at walkers, spraying their parts everywhere, including on themselves without washing that goo off right after. These two things contradict each other. When the Zombie was in the well on the Hershel farm, the water was deemed too contaminated to drink. Yet when they broke into the food bank in early S5, they jumped into the water like it was nothing despite Zombies having been in there for years. Bob had a freaking gunshot wound that was still more or less fresh yet he jumped in without a second thought. And skin can still absorb. Not to mention that they didn't shed those clothes and washed themselves as soon as they were out of the infested water. They acted as if they just went swimming in the lake with their clothes on. Why is the possibility of being scratched not a bigger deal? I think it was in S1, biting and scratching. We have seen Zombies have superhuman strength than can rip apart a human with their bare hands (Dale) or kill and eat a tiger. Yet these people run around in short sleeves and tank tops, are constantly being grabbed by Zombies yet no scratches are left behind.

The only reason that apparently now you can shoot/stab someone with a weapon covered in Zombie guts and it having any effect is because the plot calls for it.

[tricknasty]

8 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

I can't even remember what happened in regards to this. It seemed like Maggie was going to croak any minute due to some complication that I never figured out what it was unless they got a doctor, but then they didn't get a doctor right away, because they got captured for a minute and Gen and Abraham got killed ... and then I'm chagrined to say that forgot what happened next. Did Maggie see a doctor? And if so what was so urgent? Whatever it was, it doesn't seem to be affecting her now, and do pregnancies actually work that way (I must admit I never had kids so I don't know much about this, but I pretty much thought if you had complications you kind of had to be somewhat careful after that - my sister did.)

Okay while I'm asking questions... I'm no longer watching this show*** - just reading the threads to keep up - and I can't believe I'm asking this, but they had Negan find out about Carl dying before Carol and Darryl? How? And why? And what could he possibly have said about Carl that I would be interested in hearing? Were we supposed to believe that Negan was sad or something even though Negan was going to cut Carl's hand off not that long ago? And why would I give a shit about what Negan had to say about Carl? I hate Negan. I wouldn't want him saying a thing about Carl. if I had watched, I bet that all I would have been thinking as Negan was talking is "Die! Die! Why couldn't you be dead and Carl still be alive, you annoying, one-dimensional, buffoon of a character!" ...Rant over

*deep breath* Sorry about that.

*** After the midseason finale showed me Carl was going to die I said "I quit" and I meant it.

After Glenn and Abraham died, they finally got Maggie to a doctor at Hilltop. Her condition was some pregnancy related BS and she was apparently treated for it. Daryl already knew that Carl was dying, but wasn't there for the actual death. Alexandria was burned to the ground and our group relocated to Hilltop where Daryl grunted the news about Carl's death to Maggie who is currently in her 12th month of pregnancy. Negan found out about Carl's death cause Carl wrote some letters before he died and one was to Negan requesting peace between them. Rick called Negan on a walkie talkie to tell him about the letter. Negan blamed Carl's death on Rick, calling him a shitty parent. Negan was sad about Carl dying because he had plans for him. I'm happy that you found it in you to quit this shitty show, but I'm a glutton for punishment cause I'm still here.

[nodorothyparker]

As already stated above, Daryl and company left Alexandria knowing that Carl had been bitten.  But in the length of time this episode that it took them to traipse through the woods and fight swamp walkers before getting to the Hilltop to share the news with people who had known Carl since the beginning and been a part of his life all this time, we first had an entire episode of Rick going to check in with the garbage people and then radioing Negan specifically to tell him Carl had died.  All because of a letter Carl had left behind for Negan based on his dying fantasy that they'd all stop fighting and live happily ever after together.  Negan, of course, was given more than ample time last episode to be all sad about it, even acknowledging that Carl's death made no sense because he was the future.  (This big show of grief ignores that Negan was set to maim or kill Carl on at least two occasions and was bombing Carl's home as he was dying.) 

While Rick was running around doing this and trading even more blame and toothless threats to kill Negan, Daryl was left to ferry Judith to Hilltop safely and tell those same people who had known Carl since the beginning that he was dead in a mostly wordless few seconds of everyone looking sad.  Again, to me it's a priority thing.  The show is telling us that Negan is a priority and the original characters and history just aren't.

[AngelaHunter]

8 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

It seemed like Maggie was going to croak any minute due to some complication that I never figured out what it was unless they got a doctor, but then they didn't get a doctor right away, because they got captured for a minute and Gen and Abraham got killed

They all got captured because they ALL had to go with Maggie on the Quest for a Doctor (Glenn, maybe with Abe driving and Rosita riding shotgun weren't enough) and left Father Pee and Spencer to protect Alexandria.

9 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Were we supposed to believe that Negan was sad or something even though Negan was going to cut Carl's hand off not that long ago?

And was going to bash Carl's head in not long after that.

[sarthaz]

I think the idea they're going for is that Negan kills in grand spectacular fashion for long-term effect.  So just because he was going to kill Carl to bring everyone in line doesn't necessarily mean he wouldn't be sad that Carl died independent of those motives.  Negan's behavior in this aspect is more internally consistent with his character than, say, Maggie forgetting she had a sister, Carl becoming a hippie, or Tara becoming a moron.

12 hours ago, Quilty said:

This show is running out of character's I care about.

Care-Rick,Carol,Michone,Rosita maybe Ezekiel 

Don't Care-Enid,Maggie,Daryl,Jesus,Morgan,FPP,The new guy that got Carl killed,Tara,Dwight,Eugene,Negan

As I've read several times I think I'm also officially hate watching this show.?

Care: Michone, maybe Carol

Don't Care: Everyone. Just fucking everyone.

It appears I'm now hate-watching too. I'm not a typical hate-watcher and never wanted to be at this point. :(