S06.E07: Lisa's Story

[CrazyInAlabama]

I know this is off topic, but years ago I went to Disney World, and was in line for the Small World ride, and the people in front of us who ended up in our boat said that his parents got stuck in the ride, their boat came off the rail.    It took over an hour to get the boat going, and get them out of there, but the goats were singing the song the entire time.    He said they were so sick of hearing It's a Small World, that they couldn't hear the song without getting it stuck in their head for days after, and he wasn't going to mention going through the ride.   So I have to keep playing the Weird Al song to drive Small World out of my head.   

I suspect if Lisa really lost a lot of weight at the end, that she either had diabetes and dropped a lot of weight that way, or developed something else that makes you lose weight quickly, like cancer.   I'm still betting that the entire statement to People was exaggerated, and full of lies.     

My 90 year old grandmother was big, and then developed Type 2, and lost all of her excess weight very quickly before she went to the doctor, so you can lose a bunch in a hurry even without limiting food intake.   My grandma was never 600 lbs though.    

Edited August 26, 2018 by CrazyInAlabama

[Colleenna]

On 8/24/2018 at 11:33 AM, LunaMia said:

Not surprised: 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6095089/My-600lb-life-star-dies-aged-50-six-months-appearing-show.html

I’m actually more surprised we don’t hear of participants deaths more often. 

I suspect the next one will be Schenee. Or perhaps Lupe.

[CrazyInAlabama]

My guess is one of these days James K will stop getting brought back from the brink of death, But Schenee or Lupe, or one of the ones who quit "to do it their own way" will be right there with them.     

ANother possibility for Lisa's surgery was gall bladder.   I've heard that if your gall bladder is removed, that you have to be very careful eating rich, or fatty foods, the diarrhea is hideous, and can cause weight loss, but I'll never believe the 200 pound loss unless it's confirmed by someone besides the family. 

Edited August 27, 2018 by CrazyInAlabama

[auntjess]

10 hours ago, Jeeves said:

On 8/25/2018 at 9:41 PM, Colleenna said:

And now I've got the *parody* of "Another.." running thru my head: 

"Another one rides the bus..." (your bus to hell.)

Here ya go. 

Oh, I loved Tom Snyder, and watched the Tomorrow Show every night.  Thanks.

[Swiss]

Have watched this show since the very first episode featuring Melissa.   Lisa is in my Top Five of most unlikeable/delusional people. The others in no particular order are Penny, Steven A.,Schnaae,and James K.     Surprised that none of the others have died.

 Wonder how Lisa's family is getting along financially now that she's dead?Didn't Danielle say that they catered to their Mother's demands..otherwise she would "put them out?"   Such a delightful woman..not.

Edited August 27, 2018 by Swiss

[CoachWristletJen]

On 8/26/2018 at 8:33 PM, CrazyInAlabama said:

My guess is one of these days James K will stop getting brought back from the brink of death, But Schenee or Lupe, or one of the ones who quit "to do it their own way" will be right there with them.     

ANother possibility for Lisa's surgery was gall bladder.   I've heard that if your gall bladder is removed, that you have to be very careful eating rich, or fatty foods, the diarrhea is hideous, and can cause weight loss, but I'll never believe the 200 pound loss unless it's confirmed by someone besides the family. 

I didn't know that. Bad news for Sean whose gall bladder was removed. I doubt he quit eating fatty foods.

It would actually be good news for him if he would get with the program...

[CrazyInAlabama]

Jen-My understanding is the problems with fatty foods only last for a while after surgery.    But I'm not sure, I just know a few people that had their gall bladder out, and it was all temporary with them.   

[AZChristian]

12 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

Jen-My understanding is the problems with fatty foods only last for a while after surgery.    But I'm not sure, I just know a few people that had their gall bladder out, and it was all temporary with them.   

I've had mine out, and I do fine with the few fatty foods I eat.  

[CrazyInAlabama]

Of course, most people don't stop for the Karina special at the pizzeria on the way home from surgery.    I could see anyone on this show, except the few success stories, doing that. 

Edited August 31, 2018 by CrazyInAlabama

[CatherineM]

I had mine out 37 years ago. Went vegetarian in college and killed it. I still get hit now and then by fried foods. 

[notyrmomma]

On 8/26/2018 at 3:28 PM, CrazyInAlabama said:

I suspect if Lisa really lost a lot of weight at the end, that she either had diabetes and dropped a lot of weight that way, or developed something else that makes you lose weight quickly, like cancer.   I'm still betting that the entire statement to People was exaggerated, and full of lies.     

My 90 year old grandmother was big, and then developed Type 2, and lost all of her excess weight very quickly before she went to the doctor, so you can lose a bunch in a hurry even without limiting food intake.   My grandma was never 600 lbs though.    

Agreed.  My dad died of non-alcoholic cirrhosis of the liver and looked like a skeleton just before he died.  He was always a big guy and was around 300 pounds when he was diagnosed (I always thought that was so huge, it's goal to some of these people, LOL).  He dropped most of the weight in the months before he died and this was a huge warning sign that he was not doing well--no one celebrated this weight loss.  I wonder if that is what happened to Lisa.

On 8/26/2018 at 5:45 PM, Colleenna said:

I suspect the next one will be Schenee. Or perhaps Lupe.

If we are doing a death watch, I think Sean will be next.  Overall, I think this season's bunch was the unhealthiest out of all seasons.  I think most everyone but a few were completely bed bound.

[CrazyInAlabama]

Lisa's rerun is on tonight.   Knowing the outcome still doesn't diminish the moments of Dr. Now finding the potato chip bag in her folds at the hospital.    This is also the one where the Mobile F.D. people need eight men to get her out of the bed, reinforce the ramp, and yells "Hit Me Daddy" as they're loading her in the stretcher, and she's eating a big bowl of fruit loops at the time too.    Her daughter Danielle is the one who hears Dr. Now's diet, and won't open her mother's Coke and says the diet starts now.       And her companion Herburt is still a trip.   This is also the one with the bad ass nutritionist visit, and that woman certainly knew what she was talking about.    Her death is sad, though not unexpected.    

The nutritionist is on now, and you know that poor Herburt either had to go buy more, or go dumpster diving for all of the stuff that Lisa said was his.  She says she traded Herburt food for sex, but claims it was his food.   That's not how that arrangement works either.   Some articles said she used to be a heroin addict, and I bet that was all involved with the brother's death.  

Herburt keeps stroking her face when she gets upset, and I'd like to hit him.    I can't believe they took her to the hospital for a weight in, instead of Dr. Now's office, but I guess she couldn't stand up for the weigh in.    She just said she wasn't hungry, and Dr. Now said that wasn't a problem.   She gained 29 lbs, instead of losing 30.   Not a record, but ridiculous anyway.     This was when she got put in the hospital for the leg infection, and it's when Dr. Now found the potato chip wrapper in the folds.  

She's also the one who knew she gained a bunch, and went to the ER instead with pain, instead of going to Dr. Now's office at the end.  That's when Dr. Now looks like an enraged gerbil, and I was cheering right along with every word.

Edited October 4, 2018 by CrazyInAlabama

[aliya]

Whoa - the screaming with this one! And other than Sean and his mother, are there any people on this show who don't have a retinue of relatives hanging around for every event? I can't stand it.. The mother is screaming, the ambulance people are stressed trying not to drop this idiot, and there are the little kids, hanging around gawking like kids at a public execution in the Middle Ages. Sheesh. 

[auntjess]

Did anyone see a cause of death, other than "not from weight?"
I wondered if she had an infection, or something else.

[suziespend]

Yeah she was in total denial but I think Herburt was the literal nail in her coffin. If she had an aid instead of him maybe they could have stood up to her somewhat. At least they could shopped for a little healthier groceries; I mean what could she do but bitch and moan. It's not like she can get up and do anything or go anywhere. And also the generational obesity was really sad to see. Those daughters are in the wings to be future Dr. Now patients

[CrazyInAlabama]

I wonder who Herburt moved on to, and who gives him sex for food now?   

[suziespend]

I know it takes all kinds but who in the hell would want to have sex with with someone who can't even move? And there is no way in my opinion that someone who's bed serves triple duty as a sleep space, kitchen table and toilet can smell like a bed of roses. Just no

[Lesia]

1 hour ago, suziespend said:

would want to have sex with with someone who can't even move?

um, that's not what they're doing...

[CrazyInAlabama]

Let me explain it another way.    (If anyone is squeamish, stop reading now)   With the aid of her tongue piercing, which is supposed to add to the act, she didn't have intercourse, but oral sex.   Then he would give her the food that was killing her.   And I suspect Herburt did all the moving.    I have to go throw up now.   

Edited October 5, 2018 by CrazyInAlabama

[suziespend]

Yeah I get it but still it's creepy that she's just laying there like that. Dont want to get too graphic but even with just oral sex usually you move a little....or so I've heard ?Herburt seems decent enough. I hope he's doing okay after her passing

[Hellga]

I saw this episode while channel flipping last night, and she was so extremely unlikeable, I only managed to watch about 5 minutes.   

[DC Gal in VA]

If the TLC producers have any real interest (or even a basic sense of decency) for their subjects to succeed in their weight loss "journeys" they will make it mandatory that all future poundticipants will be required to view, in their presence, Lisa's and Robert's stories before they sign up to appear on this show. Perhaps that would throw a little cold water on the attitude of many of them that they have all the time in the world to lose weight and that just a tiny bit of cheating on their diets--translation: gaining thirty pounds in a month instead of losing thirty--won't hurt. 

[CrazyInAlabama]

I'm sure that anyone who has appeared on this show, and their multitudes of relatives must watch this show regularly, but they still assume they'll be different, and will have the magic surgery the day they hit Houston, will be instantly thin, and will be able to eat anything they want through the entire process. 

Next week is supposed to be Robert, and I'm skipping that one, since Lisa was depressing enough..  

Edited October 9, 2018 by CrazyInAlabama

[CoachWristletJen]

On 8/31/2018 at 5:48 PM, notyrmomma said:

If we are doing a death watch, I think Sean will be next.  Overall, I think this season's bunch was the unhealthiest out of all seasons.  I think most everyone but a few were completely bed bound.

I think so too, sadly. He's demonstrated that he can gain weight at an astoundingly quick rate. He eats like a machine. The only thing in his corner is his youth, but if he gets up anywhere close to 1000 pounds again it will be too much.

Also, James K. Those legs of his are a deadly infection waiting to happen. And his body was literally too huge to distribute antibiotic effectively. He's probably getting bigger and bigger even as I type this. Also the fact that he's getting up there in years by 600 pounder standards. None of these people live past 56. Janine is also on that list. And of course, Penny. Penny is past her 5-year mark. It's so sad!

Given their 5% success rate, I'd say in 10 years we will have lost at least 50% of them. At least.

Edited October 5, 2018 by CoachWristletJen

[CrazyInAlabama]

The one thing that amazes me is how James K. is always ending up in ICU, not expected to make it, and he ends up surviving.     I'm surprised the death toll hasn't been higher, considering the horrible toll that 600 lbs + takes on a body's respiratory, and circulatory system.    

[DC Gal in VA]

On 10/5/2018 at 5:44 PM, CoachWristletJen said:

I think so too, sadly. He's demonstrated that he can gain weight at an astoundingly quick rate. He eats like a machine. The only thing in his corner is his youth, but if he gets up anywhere close to 1000 pounds again it will be too much.

Also, James K. Those legs of his are a deadly infection waiting to happen. And his body was literally too huge to distribute antibiotic effectively. He's probably getting bigger and bigger even as I type this. Also the fact that he's getting up there in years by 600 pounder standards. None of these people live past 56. Janine is also on that list. And of course, Penny. Penny is past her 5-year mark. It's so sad!

Given their 5% success rate, I'd say in 10 years we will have lost at least 50% of them. At least.

 

What gets me about James K still hanging in there is that, with all of the infections and open skin, the man has not had a real bath or a shower for almost five years! I mean bed baths can only go so far. How the lovely Lisa is able to clean him by herself is beyond me since it took her and three other people (her poor daughter and two grown men) to roll him over, all with him screaming and squalling "Ow, mah laygs!" But like you say CoachWrisletJen I fully expect to hear that conniving Lisa has served him his "last meal" any day now.

Edited to add: While I truly loathe James K, I absolutely do not wish death on the man. Lisa really has discovered a way to legally murder someone, especially if that someone is as dumb, greedy and lazy as James K.

Edited October 7, 2018 by DC Gal in VA
Effing Autocorrect!

[CrazyInAlabama]

I'm sure when he's in the hospital that entire teams of care givers make sure he's clean.  They deserve a medal.

When I saw the back story on James K, I think in an article, that trailer that they were in at the beginning of the original episode was rented, and they'd only been there for two months since his last hospital stay.     I hate to think how dirty and nasty a place can get if they live there for a long while, and I don't want to know what their place in Houston looks like by now either. 

[MutualCore]

On 2/23/2018 at 5:12 AM, Trees said:

Here's what makes me nuts.  The topic of this program is very fascinating: extreme obesity and the psychological reasons why it happens, how it continues, and the medical implications of living that way and possibly making a change.  It could be a MUCH better show - infinitely!  But the producers or whomever seem to have written an outline that every episode will follow and they never deviate.  

In fact, what would be much more interesting would be to see more of what really goes on behind the scenes.  We know, for instance, that Dr Now holds support groups.  It would be great to see the subjects attending those and reacting.

Clearly, there must be more education about the diet than that piece of paper he hands them.  Every single episode, though, he gives it to them, they pretend to be surprised by this (THEY'VE NEVER WATCHED THE SHOW?!) and it looks like he sends them off to miraculously lose 50 pounds in 2 months.

If, in fact, Dr Now and his team truly wanted to help these folks, they'd be screening and educating the entire family and team of caregivers.  Those folks did not become morbidly obese all alone.  Their enablers are as sick as the subjects are... addicted to being needed.  The whole team - the patient and all the folks stuffing them with food - are ill and need extreme behavioral and psychological testing.

I've even started forwarding as soon as I hear those long commentaries begin, especially when I hear the word "because...".  It's going to followed by "if I don't, I will die!" or ".. this is my last chance!" or whatever.

With such an interesting topic, why must they stick to this narrow script and outline?  It's such a waste.  

Agreed, but then the show would not be as entertaining. Remember, Dr. Now's practice is 98% not these people. His son Jonathan Nowzarden is the producer and I'm sure he's the one really deciding on these train wrecks for ratings sake. I mean wow, take Lisa(James K). She is a textbook sociopath. Makes for excellent television!

[the-grey-lady]

Apparently Lisa passed away.

https://people.com/health/my-600-lb-life-lisa-flemming-dead/

[newyawk]

Just watched this one.

 

When "The Biggest Loser" was on the air, their staff doctor, Robert Huizenga, (Dr. H.) earned the unfair nickname "Dr. Death" from a few of the posters here at previouslytv, for doing basically what Dr. Now does with all his patients, pointing out the severity of their conditions and how dangerous their physical conditions were.  What Dr. Now does and what Dr. H was doing is/was simply throwing the cold water of reality on these people, and a scare tactic like telling someone "you're going to die soon if you don't lose the weight" is not gratuitous, it is a fact based on their medical knowledge and these doctors' knowledge of their patients conditions.  Unfortunately, Dr. Now was correct in Lisa's case, even though she did make a belated effort to get on track.

I haven't read through this thread yet, so I'm sure a lot of the following points have already been made.  When the nutritionist was going through the refrigerator and freezer and pulled out all the garbage food to throw out, I was wondering if the show was going to reimburse Lisa or Herburt for the cost of the junk groceries. I thought the nutritionist should have told Herburt in an aside, "If you have to eat that stuff, either keep it in your car or eat it at the takeout place, just don't bring it here." And Herburt should have known better.  It was appalling when Dr. Now pulled a flattened junk food packet from underneath Lisa and busted Herbert for bringing her junk food in the hospital. JFC.  And then after that Come to Jesus lecture from Dr. Now, he wasSTILL giving her pizza and Coke. 

 It was a shame Danielle could not have stayed in Houston with Lisa, since Danielle was the only one that would have ensured her mother stuck to the diet, But I'm glad she did well for herself and landed her dream job. She seems sweet and appears to be a sharp cookie.

Lisa's epic meltdown in the hospital bed was just embarrassing, and it was a meltdown that she should have had with her therapist, who could have guided her through it. It is unfortunate that bad parenting is the root cause in so many of these cases. It seems to result in overgrown infants who have no idea how to step up for themselves and a distorted sense of what is actually happening with and around them.  Have I ever mentioned here how I can't stand people who are incapable of discerning between someone telling them basic facts, and actually "being disrespected"?  Especially when they are claiming to be disrespected  because someone dared to call them out for lying? Well, I can't, and I have met quite a few people like that. 

 

Sorry to say, but Lisa made her grave, and now she's lying in it. 

Edited February 4, 2019 by newyawk

[noveltylibrary]

On 8/31/2018 at 5:48 PM, notyrmomma said:

If we are doing a death watch, I think Sean will be next. 

You were right.

[fonfereksglen]

Watched the last hour while reading the comments, again.  Knowing she is dead  made the comments less snark and more realistic.  There is nothing anyone can do for someone who does not want help..

[Colleenna]

2 hours ago, fonfereksglen said:

Watched the last hour while reading the comments, again.  Knowing she is dead  made the comments less snark and more realistic.  There is nothing anyone can do for someone who does not want help..

I watched the rerun of her story today. I had forgotten the epic meltdown. I have a hunch that was her "go to" when anyone called her on her shit. 

[toodles]

Last line of the show:  I'm doing this the Lisa way.  Next scene-In Memorial, Lisa.

Kind of says it all, doesn't it.

[DC Gal in VA]

On 2/23/2018 at 5:37 PM, Samurai X said:

This was all I got out of all of Lisa's whining

Well now Samurai X don't you think that this video belongs on James K's thread since he is the king of "Ow, Mah Laygs!?" Hee. 😆

[toodles]

Lisa was on today.  Since Angie is on tonight too, I think part off TLC's evil plan to give us a heapin' helpin' of awful.

Anyway, I think I know part of the reason Lisa couldn't lose any weight.  Herburt fed her an entire pizza with GRAPES!  We all know that grapes is the fruit gateway drug.  I'm sure it had nothing to do with the pizza among a million other things.  Lisa already loved strawberries, so she was doomed from the start.

[B in Lee]

On 2/22/2018 at 2:56 PM, alegtostandon said:

OMG, that poor grandson! I guess at this point, she's past being a "human" form. 

Maggots!? In her leg folds!? I can't even! And all that screaming...was driving me crazy.

I just cannot figure out what they expect Dr Now to do.  He cannot wave a magic wand over her to have the weight disappear.  

I really wish her daughter would follow this diet and lose some weight..She seemed like a good person.

Well, perhaps she will. Now that she has buried her mother. What a sad ending, for a sad woman. It was unnecessary. But, the choices you make dictate the life you get. 

[B in Lee]

On 10/4/2018 at 10:00 AM, suziespend said:

Yeah she was in total denial but I think Herburt was the literal nail in her coffin. If she had an aid instead of him maybe they could have stood up to her somewhat. At least they could shopped for a little healthier groceries; I mean what could she do but bitch and moan. It's not like she can get up and do anything or go anywhere. And also the generational obesity was really sad to see. Those daughters are in the wings to be future Dr. Now patients

Well, Steven the Ass had a personal assistant, and we saw that there are limits to what they can do. Princess put up with a lot of abuse, and worked hard to track him down when he went drug shopping (to cite one example). Unless the patient wants to cooperate, if (s)he is still deemed mentally competent, they can do as they choose - within the limits of law, of course. These people get all the help and tools available, but it's up to them to use the tools and programs and do the hard work.

[B in Lee]

On 12/27/2018 at 9:03 PM, the-grey-lady said:

Apparently Lisa passed away.

https://people.com/health/my-600-lb-life-lisa-flemming-dead/

Whoa. It would seem the crown for Queen of Denial as been passed down. The weight wasn't what killed her? Come on, Danielle.

[Ralphster]

I know Lisa isn't well-liked and I'm not fond of her myself, but I was profoundly shocked by Dr. Now's treatment of her while she was having a meltdown toward the end of her episode. He accused her of faking it for attention but I believe it was a rare moment of honesty for her. She said she was consumed by anxiety, depression, stress; that she had zero self control and that she felt like an idiot after giving in. She said she didn't understand her own behaviour and that she needed help and didn't know what to do. He immediately started haranguing her about how she had a copy of the diet and knew what to do, but he was being really literal there. What she meant, I think, was that she was a prisoner of drives and motives that she could not begin to decipher and wanted help in that department. She needed a therapist at that moment, not Dr. Now berating her about her eating habits. That he dismissed her feelings and didn't even try to get her in touch with a therapist for an emergency session says a lot about what he really thinks about therapy. I think he was just milking the drama from the scene without giving two shits about Lisa's genuine emotional needs at the time.

That was a crowning moment of jackassery from Dr. Now. He told her that she had therapy and nutritionists and that she was failing herself. That is true, but not for the reasons he thinks. It's like he has a mechanical view of therapy; you tell the therapist what's wrong and somehow s/he fixes you. He clearly has no concept of severe trauma and the reluctance people have to disclose that trauma, even within a safe environment. He also has no idea that therapy sometimes requires years before any breakthroughs are made. His ideas about therapy and its efficacy are a joke. They really are. He does not understand his patient's psychiatric needs, their drive to eat, the trauma that they carry with them every day. He just focuses on their eating, but the eating is the symptom, not the cause.

I can't respect Dr. Now after seeing how he approaches the mental health aspect of everything. It doesn't help that I find it utterly asinine that he insists his patients move to Houston just so he can berate them in person (he could easily have a distance doctor perform needed tests and weigh-ins), or that WLS is kind of pointless anyway if you can lose weight on your own. I used to love to hate Dr. Now, but the love is receding rapidly as I see him more of a charlatan who doesn't understand his patients or care to and who performs what I view as unnecessary procedures that permanently restrict his patients' ability to absorb nutrients. Every patient with WLS immediately looks 30 years older. I think in years to come we're going to view WLS as the modern-day equivalent of bloodletting. That is a ways off as WLS is still peaking in popularity, but I think we'll get there. Maybe. Hopefully.

Edited August 3, 2020 by Ralphster

[Minivanessa]

3 hours ago, Ralphster said:

 Every patient with WLS immediately looks 30 years older. 

What's the basis for this statement? Your experience as a professional treating WLS patients? Your personal knowledge? People you've seen on TV? 

[Ralphster]

4 hours ago, Jeeves said:

What's the basis for this statement? Your experience as a professional treating WLS patients? Your personal knowledge? People you've seen on TV? 

My own eyes? It's a qualitative statement and it's my own opinion. People who have had the surgery really do look aged, and I think it's because of lifelong nutrient deficiencies. You don't need to be "a professional treating WLS patients" to think they look older after having the surgery. To even imply this is ridiculous.

Edited August 3, 2020 by Ralphster

[Minivanessa]

I didn't say - or imply - that you must be a professional to have an opinion. I merely asked for the basis of the sweeping statement,  "Every patient with WLS immediately looks 30 years older."

I've known a couple of people in IRL who've had WLS. Those people didn't "immediately look 30 years older." In fact, they didn't look older at all, and after their rest and recovery period they looked just fine. Nor IMO did the participants on M600PL "immediately look 30 years older."

This appears to be an issue on which our opinions differ. Which is fine.

[Ralphster]

Certainly we'll have to agree to disagree on this topic. I came here to post the exact same thing, actually. I can see why you would be curious as to how I came to this opinion. 

There are a couple of things that stand out to me from your posts. The contrast between the question "[Is the basis for this statement] your experience as a professional treating WLS patients?" and that asking "[Is the basis for this statement] people you've seen on TV?" does, actually, imply that being a professional in the WLS arena would make my opinion(s) more valid. You might not have meant it that way, but the questions per se and the order in which they are asked are interesting.

This interpretation of your post is further bolstered by use of the phrase "sweeping statement." This phrase connotes that the speaker is painting with a broad brush and ignoring any complexities germane to the subject at hand. It is almost always used within the context of discrediting another POV, whether justifiably or not. I didn't form the opinion I have about this topic lightly or until I had seen many dozens of people over the years emerge from WLS, both in real life and on TV, looking decades older than their actual age. This effect was serious enough in my mind to make me question having the surgery done on myself, as I had around 150 pounds to lose at my heaviest. There is something pinched about the face after the surgery, and it is my theory that lifelong nutrient deficiencies - widely acknowledged to be a struggle following WLS - lead to the certain look I am referring to.

[OoogleEyes]

Watching Lisa's re-run and Herbert, the saboteur 

[hookedontv]

18 minutes ago, OoogleEyes said:

Watching Lisa's re-run and Herbert, the saboteur 

I never remember anyone's name. But I am looking forward to tonight's season premiere!