S09.E06: Meeting Mariah's Girlfriend

[Granny58]

1 hour ago, Absolom said:

I hate that nonsense also.  Anyone saying that's just so and so and the way they are drives me batty.  People used that to excuse my mother- in-law's bad behavior and now my daughter's mother-in-law's garbage.  I called my MIL on hers and now call daughter's MIL on hers.  Shockingly they both stopped it around me.  They never will as long as they are excused. 

I think both elements can be true.  People can stop assuming they understand the motivations of other people, and also they can learn to behave.  I don't recall if their therapist mentioned the second part, or if not perhaps it was edited out (because I hope it was stated). 

[AZChristian]

Now don't go expecting Kody's thought processes to make sense.  To quote most of the losing litigants on Judge Judy . . . "It is what it is."  For Kody, one would have to add "at least for this moment."

[Madding crowd]

I think both Janelle and Meri are at fault for their communication problems and I think they should just forget therapy at this point and co-exist. It doesn’t seem like they have big fights or anything. I stand up for Meri a bit because I have a sister who has mastered the art of insulting me and then saying I am too defensive and sensitive while she sits there wide eyed and innocent. 

Meri is right to not trust Janelle after she dumped Meri’s brother to go after her husband. And Janelle has the right to not like Meri. Leave it at that. 

[Celia Rubenstein]

Does anyone else suspect that part of Kody's reason for not supporting Meri and Janelle participating in the women's march was less about dividing the family's political energy and more about him not wanting to share the TLC spotlight with another political cause? Or that he saw the writing on the wall about what a big deal the women's march was going to be and he did not want his little Joe Darger polygamist demonstration on the steps of the capital upstaged? 

I can't wait to see next week where he is trying to rally interest among the Browns for his little "mini march" on Salt Lake CIty. Paedon clearly told him to take his march and jam it, lol.  I don't recall the last time I saw such a sea of completely disinterested faces. 

Has Kody truly not caught on that apparently zero of his 275,639 children want anything to do with polygamy? And the reason is because they've seen what a shit job he's done of managing his own family and how unhappy their mothers have been?  

[ghoulina]

33 minutes ago, NotinKansasanymore said:

In my opinion it is hypocritical for Meri and Janelle to walk in a march, if they politically vote against many of the issues that the march is supporting. Don't parade yourself as an ally for these causes and then secretly vote against them!

Well, they very well might not vote at all. But I also didn't think they were trying to portray themselves as an ally for any of the causes. They didn't create their own signs, they weren't yelling things out. They were just there. Because Mariah asked them to be. They were showing solidarity for her. I was disowned by my father because of differences of opinion on certain things, so I find it nice to see parents willing to support the child even if they don't support the cause(s). I'm not really sure how it hurts anything. 

[LilWharveyGal]

I'd like to thank the Presidents for this day off that allows me to watch this crap early and still have plenty of time to frolic.  Let's do it!

Previouslies:

Double your pleasure, double your funds, the Entitlement Twins got married.

The Brown-Brushes moved back home.

Mariah came out.

There's a rainbow over the cult-de-sac as Mariah gets water from the fridge.  Subtle, editors.  Mariah has graduated from the school of Meri Brown Smirky Secret Announcments and tells us that she's invited Meri and Janelle over to ask them a question that's not too serious, but she thinks they'll be excited.  Meri comes into the kitchen carrying her dog.  There's an '8 Days Til Christmas' countdown thingy on the wall, and Mariah shows Meri her purple hair.  Meri voiceovers that things got negative between her and Mariah during the catfishing fiasco, and we flashback to their awkward talk in the snow in February, 2016.  According to Meri, Mariah is still angry.  Meri says she wants to get to a place where she can be open with Mariah whenever Mariah decides to open up to her, and that that's hard for her.  Apparently they're not open about much of anything, because Meri didn't even know that Mariah's finals were over when it seems clear that Mariah is home for Christmas break because school is over!  The dog is the only one to get up to greet Janelle, who expresses her anxiety over another invitation to a bomb-dropping.  Mariah explains that there's a march in Washington D.C. for women's rights and gay rights that she is attending with her friends, and she'd like Meri and Janelle to join because of their support of her.  Janelle's interest is piqued.  Meri thinks that the invitation is a huge step in her relationship with Mariah.  "You'd have to travel with me, Meri," says Janelle, and everyone laughs.  The two voiceover about their differences and need for professional help in working on communication.  Janelle says that there was a time when she would have insisted on traveling separately.  Mariah clarifies that the march is not a protest march, it's to support LGBT rights.  Meri tells Janelle that they'd be going with a group of Mariah's friends who are coming to visit in January, and then Meri asks Mariah if she's interested in one of them.  There's an awkward pause punctuated with giggles and ums, which Meri and Janelle assume means something.  Mariah says that taking this action to go to the march would be a way Meri could demonstrate her support of Mariah.  We flashback to her coming out.  Meri notes that she had a hard time with the news, and that she saw Robyn, Christine, and Janelle all having more positive reactions than her.  So, she repeats that to receive this invitation now is huge to her.  

We completely change gears now and learn that Kody and Aspyn went to Laramie, Wyoming, to pick up Maddie and Caleb.  Kody says that there were work, college, and financial reasons for the Brown-Brushes to move, in addition of course to the baby.  Meri and dog come outside to ask Kody how the drive went.  He fills like he's been driving forever.  There are approximately 200 vehicles in the cult-de-sac, and Caleb's pickup needs to go into the exact spot where Janelle's dead minivan sits.  Ok, Kody counts 15 vehicles, so I guess I was a little off.  Christine voiceovers that polygamist families have more cars than monogamist families.  Well, bully for you.  Kody starts talking about a different car, a white Jeep, which also needs to be pushed out of the way.  After it's moved, Maddie steers the red minivan as Kody, Aspyn, and Caleb push.  "I'm excited to live here," says Caleb sarcastically.  On the couch, he continues tongue-in-cheek that he's so proud to be 30 with a pregnant wife, moving into a one-bedroom loft at his in-law's.  As the storage trailer is finally able to be opened, Christine says that she knows Caleb is having a hard time with the move to Vegas because he's an outdoorsman.   Kody agrees that it would be hard to be 30 and move back in with parents, and Robyn quickly pipes up to say that it's not because of a lack of motivation, but that Caleb's doing what's best for his family.  Meri notes that by Kody's 30th birthday he had 3 wives and 8 kids.  Overachiever!  Back in the driveway, Janelle pats Maddie's tummy, and Maddie tells her that she's 21 weeks along.  Maddie voiceovers that they already know the sex of the baby, but they're waiting to tell the family so that Christine has a chance to buy out either the pink or blue section of the party supply store.  (Kiddingk.)  The only other person they've told is Hunter, because he's in Denver.  As they move in, Maddie says they can make do with the small space.  A few months ago, they were both students and Caleb suffered a pulmonary embolism.  Janelle voiceovers that when she first heard the news she thought Maddie would be a widow.  Caleb voiceovers that it could happen again and Maddie and the baby would be left alone.  

On that macabre note, we switch back to Janelle's thoughts on the march.  She has decided to go, and now the family needs to be told about their plans.  Kody and the other wives are going to come over to Meri's to hear the news.  Janelle is concerned that they'll be disappointed that they weren't invited.  The adults are all assembled, and Meri announces that Mariah is going to D.C. for a women's march and has invited Meri and Janelle to go too.  Christine is all smiles, and Robyn looks like she suddenly doesn't understand English.  Kody's caveman brow is beginning to descend.  He says that it seems very political.  "What's it for?" chokes out Robyn.  Janelle explains that it's a million women march in support of LGBT.  Kody hesitates, which Meri worries that Mariah will consider to be a reflection on her.  Christine voiceovers that she was very excited that Mariah asked Meri and Janelle.  Robyn hurries to add that she's happy, too.  Between them, Kody still has the silent caveman thing going on.  Robyn continues that it's good news that Mariah and Meri are working on their relationship.  Kody finally speaks up to say that he finds it "obnoxious" because he would rather have the family involved in his pet issues.  Back in Meri's living room, Kody tells everyone that Joe Darger is organizing a march on the Capitol for polygamists.  Janelle adds that it's to decriminalize plural marriages in Utah.  Kody wants to support this and wants to be able to go back to Utah.  He says that women and gay people already have their rights, but polygamists do not.  Meri says that it's not about rights, it's just about visibility essentially.  Kody thinks that half of the legislature is already female.  He continues to expound and I will spare you most of it, but finally he points out that he lives in Vegas because he's in exile from Utah.  The wives continue to fail to see a conflict of interest, or how putting energy into one group will take away from another.  Janelle points out that women in polygamy are frequently abused and don't know their rights.  Meri adds that they haven't been raised to be strong and empowered.  Kody gets going again, but Meri finally states that she's sorry but she's doing this for her daughter.  Kody still doesn't agree, but says that his concerns are probably invalid and tells Meri to go support Mariah.  On the couch, he's still frustrated that this will somehow diminish Joe Darger's efforts.  He asks if the march is political, and Meri is sure it is, and on the couch Christine lets slip that it's for the inauguration.  With a concerned face, Robyn interviews that she hopes the march is not negative or political because it's something that "we" don't do.

Good news, folks!  Christine bought BOTH the blue and pink items at the party supply store, AND had time to hit up a bakery and now we can have a gender reveal party!  Kody says that they're having the party just so he doesn't have to tell the result to four wives and 18 children at different times.  Because it's totally his business to tell the news.  At the party, Maddie is preparing bows and mustaches that the guests will use to vote on whether they think it's a boy or a girl.  On the couch, Janelle notes that these parties are a big deal these days, as we pan over balloons, cupcakes, and decorations hanging from the ceiling.  Meri notes that most of their kids were surprises, and Christine adds that she only had an ultrasound with Truely.  Back in Christine's kitchen, Sol thinks it's a boy, and Truely thinks the baby should be named Lucy if it's a girl.  I wonder how Christine would spell Lucy?  Caleb wants it to be a boy.  He prepares to hand out un-inflated pink and blue balloons to the crowd.  They will take the color of their choice, but only the correct ones will inflate when they blow them up.  The blue balloons have it.  Both Caleb and Maddie are very excited, and Maddie notes that Caleb will have a hunting buddy.  They also tell Christine that the name they have chosen is Axel.  Maddie claims she had a dream where the baby came to her and told her his name was Axel James.  I think I saw that trick in Fiddler on the Roof.  (By the way, amidst the pink and blue there are fall decorations up at Christine's, so we've got a little timeline manipulation going on here.)   

So, remember how just a few minutes ago Janelle claimed that she and Meri no longer have a problem traveling together?  Well, they're rolling up to Therapist Nancy's office in separate vehicles so clearly that emperor has no clothes.  On the couch, Christine, Kody, and Robyn express their support for the therapy and say that often in polygamy the sister wives' relationships between each other are more complicated than the husband-wife relationship.  Meri says that she and Janelle have had a couple of small conflicts lately that it would be wise to discuss and work through.  Janelle is not looking forward to the session and wishes she could have a drink.  Furthermore, if they can't clear the air she's going to "call in sick" for the trip.  In Nancy's office, Meri explains that she and Janelle have been invited to go on the D.C. trip together.  Janelle adds that there have been a few issues between them.  Nancy asks for explanation, and Meri tells about a recent media interview the five adults gave regarding Mariah.  When the interviewer asked Meri a question, Janelle jumped in and answered.  Meri found this hurtful and assumed that Janelle didn't trust Meri to give a good answer.  Janelle did not remember the question being directly asked to Meri, and when she asked the others about it they backed up her recollection.  Meri expressed her frustration about this incident to Janelle via text, which Janelle felt was an attack.  Meri says all she wanted was an apology, and Janelle thinks that would have been admitting a wrongdoing when she didn't even do anything.  The camera pans down to some truly ugly leggings Meri is wearing.  Janelle reiterates that if they can't sort this out she's not going to go on a two-and-a-half-day trip with Meri, even though she's already bought plane tickets.  They're continuing to re-hash the incident, and Janelle starts to make the point that Meri would not have reacted the same if it had been Robyn or Christine she felt slighted by, and Meri responds, tellingly, "Nobody else is working on a relationship with me."  Therapist Nancy chimes in to say that this doesn't seem like a huge deal compared to their past issues, but that it seems like a regression.  Janelle asks for some tools.  They both recognize Meri's defensiveness, which Meri says is basically her putting a wall up when other people are wrong, wrong, wrong.  When asked about her own methods, Janelle says she completely withdraws when she feels attacked.  Meri voiceovers that they are such opposites that it's always awkward and uncomfortable between them, with high potential for misunderstandings.  Therapist Nancy asks if either of them think that the other spends time and effort coming up with ways to hurt them.  Meri doesn't think Janelle does that at all.  Janelle finally says no, too, but if you had asked her 10 years ago she would have said Meri was a b*tch who just wanted to make everyone miserable.  Meri wants Janelle to recognize that she has to be aggressive and stand up for herself because nobody else will.  Janelle says that she'll verbalize her needs instead of withdrawing or shutting down.  She thinks they could use the experience of the trip as a way to erase some history and create a fun, shared memory.  Meri is still nervous about it, and says that this trip is a big dill only because of the potential to heal her relationship with Mariah.

We're at Meri's now, and for a moment I was excited because it looked like there was an actual spread on the wet bar, but it's just on the island.  Wet bar fail!  Mariah's friends are coming and Meri's even got the KitchenAid out to prepare breakfast for everyone.  The gang was in Vegas for a 21st birthday (which probably blew Maddie's 21st out of the water), and now they get to be grilled by Meri about the logistics of the march.  They say they'll all walk together.  Kody doesn't know Mariah has arrived, so Meri asks Mariah to call everyone and tell them that breakfast is almost ready.  Mariah is acting weird and repeats the phone request questioningly.  It turns out she has another patented Meri Brown Smirky Secret Announcement to tell everyone, and Meri is wondering if Mariah wants to tell her alone first.  It's incredibly awkward and Mariah's friends encourage her to just tell Meri.  After what feels like about 10 minutes, Mariah finally spits out that she and Audrey are dating.  Audrey is the friend standing closest to Mariah, and she adds that they've been dating 3 weeks even though Mariah was gone for 2 of those 3 weeks, but that they've been friends a long time so it feels like forever.  (Between my friends and I, I feel like I heard that exact story about a billion times in college.)  Mariah voiceovers that her only other dating experience was with a guy and it felt awkward, but with Audrey things feel comfortable and she's very happy.  The whole family comes over.  Christine says that she immediately scanned the friends to figure out which one was Mariah's girlfriend.  Robyn insists that she did, too.  Kody seems shocked that the wives had a hunch that Mariah had a girlfriend.  Before everyone can eat, Mariah announces that she wants to talk to the parents alone outside.  Meri walks out with her arm around Audrey, which should have been a huge clue.  Kody and Janelle yet again express their anxiousness over these surprise moments, to which Audrey responds, "Seems to happen a lot."  Oh, honey, brace yourself because you have no idea.  Mariah tells everyone the news about Audrey, and the wives are happy.  Kody says that he doesn't discriminate and must ask what Audrey's intentions are toward his daughter.  "Only the best," replies Audrey.  Mariah is super embarrassed over the whole thing.  The parents all hug Audrey, and we see Janelle wandering back home in the background.  Back inside, the family finally get to eat and Audrey makes the rounds to meet them.  As with all newcomers, the friends are then asked their views on polygamy.  One tries to mesh feminism and polygamy and says that everyone seems really happy in the Browns' setting.  She clearly didn't watch the last segment.

Now we're at Janelle's and she's preparing for the overnight flight to D.C.  She's concerned about the tense atmosphere in D.C.  Meri is also worried about the safety of the march.  In case we didn't know, she is only going for Mariah and thinks that politics are stupid.  We are treated to a montage of D.C. landmarks while Christine says that Meri and Janelle are such different people that vacationing with them is not fun.  Well, they managed not to kill each other on the flight because they have arrived at a steakhouse to have dinner with Mariah and her friends.  They have enjoyed D.C. so far and talking with others who traveled for the march.  Janelle adds that she feels like she's part of a sorority.  "When I was their age I was married," says Meri.  Janelle tells the girls she is glad they're finding their voice, and Mariah very genuinely says she's happy that Janelle and Meri came.  Meri rehashes the tough relationship she's had with Mariah for the past year or so.  After the girls leave the restaurant, Meri asks Janelle if she could have some alone time with Mariah and Audrey the next night after dinner.  Janelle is fine with that because she doesn't like to stay out late.  

It's march time!  Meri was freaked out by the "not nice" words and chants she heard in the train station.  By the way, she appears to have eschewed a jacket in favor of displaying one of her "online retailer" ensembles and she looks very cold.  Meri texts Mariah to try and find her in the crowd.  Janelle has no cell service and Meri wishes she had brought a map.  They seem to be pacing up and down a street lined with food trucks so at least they won't starve.  Finally, they meet up with the girls, minus one friend who is missing.  The atmosphere, which Meri and Janelle found angry and unsettling, seems beautiful and empowering to Audrey and Mariah.  Meri thanks them for keeping their signs classy.  She voiceovers that Mariah and Audrey are very happy together and at the march, and that Mariah's happiness was all she ever wanted.  The group tries to track down Claire, the missing friend.  Mariah and Audrey leave their signs with Janelle and Meri, ask them to stay put, and split off to find Claire.  But Meri and Janelle have to go to the bathroom, so they leave the signs and the other girls and ask them to stay put.  The potty break takes about an hour and half, and when they emerge the march has already begun.   With lighter bladders but heavy hearts, Meri and Janelle worry that they'll never find the girls again.

When we come back Mariah is trying to call Meri but she gets no answer.  A friend wonders if Meri and Janelle would have gone to a different point on the route to protest.  Mariah says no.  She says she's glad Meri and Janelle even showed up, and seems to assume they're gone for good.  Meanwhile, Meri and Janelle are trying to push through the crowd, and finally they're reunited with Mariah.  Meri calculates that it took them 3 hours to get to the bathroom and back.  Claire has also turned up, so it's time to join the march.  Janelle voiceovers that she likes the message of women's empowerment, but thinks that the protesters would view her involvement in polygamy as counter-empowerment.  She thinks that being both a feminist and a polygamist is ideal, because she can both be independent and still have her husband and family.  Mariah interviews that she's loving he march and is so excited to be involved in a historic event.  As a cherry on top, Meri says there were no snarky comments between herself and Janelle.  Over dinner, everyone reiterates their happiness about the day.  Janelle then gracefully bows out, and Meri asks Mariah and Audrey to hang around and talk.  Mariah is awkward and nervous.  Audrey shares with Meri that she's been out about a year and a half, and that her family is religious but were nothing but supportive when she came out.  Meri notes that her own response to Mariah's news was more deer-in-the-headlights.  She continues that Mariah was always a girly girl, and that since Meri didn't have a son she imagined a future son-in-law filling that role.  All of these dreams were dashed when Mariah came out, which, Meri freely admits, was not fair to Mariah.  It has taken Meri some time to wrap her head around these changes, and she's now choosing to accept Mariah as she is.  At the restaurant, Mariah says that she does feel supported by Meri and the family.  Meri voiceovers that the trip has been a big first step in healing their relationship, and that she's looking forward to being mom and daughter again.

Next week:  Not to be out-marched, Kody wants to protest in Utah but the kids aren't enthused.   

Edited February 20, 2018 by LilWharveyGal

[Delete]

 My blood was boiling when he was talking about his lack of rights as a polygamist. He acted as if Utah has some different laws about polygamy, as compared to the rest of the United States. 

For starters, they're protected by a stipulation that law enforcement in Utah would only pursue charges against polygamists in cases where the parties "(1) induce a partner to marry through misrepresentation or (2) are suspected of committing a collateral crime such as fraud or abuse.”

I dug up something from 2012:

Per court documents filed Thursday in response to a lawsuit the TLC personalities filed against his office last year, Utah County Attorney Jeffrey Buhman declined to prosecute patriarch Kody Brown even though he has four wives—a third-degree felony under the state's bigamy laws—because an investigation failed to turn up any signs of fraud.

Instead, Buhman stipulated that he would only bring a criminal case against polygamists when "a victim is induced to marry through their partner's fraud, misrepresentations or omissions" or when one or more members of the union is subject to violence or abuse; not, he wrote, so the law could be used to suppress religious freedom.

So unless they are guilty of fraud, or abuse they can move back to Utah without any fear of prosecution. 

Edited February 19, 2018 by Ravenna

[Roslyn]

4 hours ago, fountain said:

I didn’t mind Caleb’s comments, I thought they were pretty funny and addressed what we all were thinking.  I would think at 30 you would have a job with disability insurance no?  Do people in the US not insure themselves like they do elsewhere?  Don’t students buy coverage?  At my local university you are required to prove you have health insurance or get the university policy and we have universal health care (but it doesn’t cover everything and insurance fills the gaps).  Now with a PE he is pretty uninsurable for a while.

 

The insurance issue in the US is  one giant clusterF**K. Disability is something completely different from health insurance, and as it is with many things it is different from state to state.  My husband's insurance through his work has skyrocketed in price.  The local doctors and hospitals charge a higher price to insurance carriers and then the insurance denies the claim, so you end up paying a higher price than if you just paid cash up front (if you could even afford to pay cash up front).  He now pays almost three times as much in premiums and the deductible went from $1000 a year to $5000 a year.  So we have to pay the premiums, be taxed on the companies contributions as if it is income received and then need to pay $5000 (this is per person in the family...not a collective amount) in medical bills before the insurance company will pay out a dime.  Lots of money goes to the insurance company and for years not one penny of health CARE has been covered.

Moving back home with family isn't ever enjoyable after you have been out on your own, and it must be especially hard for a man who has supported himself and at one point supported his sister and her kids after her husband (Kody's brother) suddenly passed away.  I'm sure this decision wasn't taken lightly, and judging by the sarcasm he was oozing on the show...it was not something he was enjoying.

[Delete]

Let's be real here. The main reason Caleb and Maddie returned to the cult-de-sac is to scoop up some easy cash from TLC. They negotiated some extra $$ for Maddie to squeeze out the blessed boy child on tv. 

Edited February 19, 2018 by Ravenna

[Adeejay]

On ‎2‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 2:19 PM, Madding crowd said:

Meri is right to not trust Janelle after she dumped Meri’s brother to go after her husband. And Janelle has the right to not like Meri. Leave it at that. 

These two women will never be friends.  Meri will never ever forgive Janelle for stepping in on her marriage, and giving her husband the first child and eventually four sons, while she gave birth to "just a girl."

Say what you will about Christine, but she seems very sweet and kind.  When Mariah introduced the adults to Audrey, I noticed that Christine was the first to rush over and hug her, while Janelle quietly walked away.   

Edited February 22, 2018 by Adeejay

[Roslyn]

22 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

Does anyone else suspect that part of Kody's reason for not supporting Meri and Janelle participating in the women's march was less about dividing the family's political energy and more about him not wanting to share the TLC spotlight with another political cause? Or that he saw the writing on the wall about what a big deal the women's march was going to be and he did not want his little Joe Darger polygamist demonstration on the steps of the capital upstaged? 

I can't wait to see next week where he is trying to rally interest among the Browns for his little "mini march" on Salt Lake CIty. Paedon clearly told him to take his march and jam it, lol.  I don't recall the last time I saw such a sea of completely disinterested faces. 

Has Kody truly not caught on that apparently zero of his 275,639 children want anything to do with polygamy? And the reason is because they've seen what a shit job he's done of managing his own family and how unhappy their mothers have been?  

^^This^^

I just finished watching the episodes and this is exactly what I was thinking as I read through the thread.  He immediately went into a tirade about his exile in Las Vegas and how polygamists don't have any rights and women/gay etc have all the rights nation wide.  I thought as he banged that dead horse how he was upset about the cameras following them to the big big march in Washington would take precious air time from his wee wee little march in Utah.  I think he has never really realized that they are two totally different things to support.  Cause hey...everyone is there to support his views not have any of their own!!  You can take the fundamental misogynist out of Utah but you can't take that thinking out of the fundamental misogynist.

[Delete]

37 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

 

Meri is right to not trust Janelle after she dumped Meri’s brother to go after her husband. 

It weird that it never gets addressed at all. 

[Chicklet]

Even weirder is how miserable 3/4 of these women are yet their cheerleading about polygamy remains in the opening as well as sprinkled through the program. WE GET IT, you hate each other but this choice is supposed to make you all better than the rest of us. Sorry, not believable in the least, polygamists.

[b2H]

18 hours ago, cereality said:

Wow -- feel bad for Caleb having a pulmonary embolism. He was acting kind of obnoxious before explaining that -- i.e. I'm soooo excited to live here; soooo proud to be 30 with a pregnant wife and living with my inlaws. The parents of course glossed it over as -- school; work; financial and of course better for the baby to be raised around family. Um -- sure -- unless it is truly financial though, they could rent a nearby apartment/house in Vegas, right and be near family but on their own and with their own space? I thought Caleb had a skilled tradesmen kind of job like welding; those tend to pay $$$. I wonder if he quit that for college (bc if he wanted to go to college why wait until 30 -- it's not like he was off in the army or something) OR if he had to quit because of his health -- which actually would be pretty unfortunate and explain the sudden need to move home as his paycheck was gone.

I am of the opinion that, at 30, having that medical condition would be excruciatingly scary.  I have no issues with them moving back with family.  None at all.

But the sooner they can get on with their lives by themselves, the better.

14 hours ago, Meowwww said:

So why couldn’t they start the 13 cars to move them?  Why push them?

Because most of them were inoperable.  The money from TLC isn't enough to sustain massive car repair bills on multiple vehicles.

Just my take on it.

[b2H]

13 hours ago, Awfarmington said:

Maddie mentioned Caleb had the flu (or they thought he did?) when he was diagnosed with a PE. I could be way off here, and often am, but couldn’t the PE be a complication of the flu?

Wondered if I thought I heard it was originally pneumonia?

[jactv]

It was REALLY REALLY nice to not have to see Tony this week, or listen to Christine sing.

[Chicklet]

PE's aren't really a complication of the flu. Sinus infections, ear infections are the most common complications other then, well death this year (usually from respiratory failure and or sepsis.)

[OldWiseOne]

15 hours ago, sainte-chapelle said:

Every time I see Cody I want to punch him in the throat, that's it, I've got nothing.

Backpfeifengesicht: German for "a face that invites a slap." It’s a combination of two nouns: Backpfeife (a slap across the cheek) and Gesicht (face). A perfect description of Kody.

15 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

Oh, and I'm glad Mariah didn't ask Robin to go to DC. The most coveted, smartest, wisest, most beautiful wife that everybody loves wasn't asked to go. You know it bugged her even if she acted like it didn't. 

Maybe I'm not remembering correctly, but I thought when it was just Robin, Christine and Kody on the couch discussing this Robin said that she wouldn't have gone anyway - and then she looked straight at Kody for approval.

[Kyanight]

51 minutes ago, LilWharveyGal said:

I wonder how Christine would spell Lucy?

Loosye.

[Sandy W]

28 minutes ago, Ravenna said:

It weird that it never gets addressed at all. 

I don't think it's ever been addressed on the program, if it hadn't been in their book, we may never have been privy to this info.

Janelle has been portrayed as having dumped Meri's brother to pursue Kody but we have never learned why Janelle left her marriage.  It's possible that the marriage was to all intents and purposes over and Janelle coming into contact with Kody gave her the impetus to make the move.  For all we know, it may have been Meri's brother that made the marriage intolerable for Janelle.  

In any case, it strikes me as odd that anyone would want to hook up with former SIL's husband, but then the whole concept of polygamy strikes me as odd.

[Roslyn]

15 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

 If it were up to Caleb, they would never have gotten there.  But Caleb, you're a grown man.  How pathetic to use a health scare to manipulate things, and how horrible to let Maddie think that Caleb's a ticking time bomb, about to drop dead at any minute.

PEs are serious, and they are life threatening.  But Caleb's was diagnosed and it's resolved.  There's no reason to believe it's going to happen again unless he has a clotting disorder.  If he was diagnosed with a clotting disorder he will be on an anticoagulant, and he will be monitored.  Hundreds of thousands of people have this problem and go on with their lives in a productive manner, without running back home to be cared for by parents.  Pregnant women get PEs and yet manage to have and care for their babies, as well as go back to work after maternity leave.

They have only discussed the bare minimum on the show about Caleb's health.  We have no idea what the extent was or what any issues continue to plague him.  It's obvious that he isn't happy about having to move in with the MIL because not long ago he was the one supporting his sisters family.  Just because one person can easily have the same health diagnosis and recover quickly and move forward doesn't mean the same for everyone.  Medications bring side effects and physical trauma takes a toll on body and mind.  I have a feeling the selection of doctors and overall medical choices are more varied in Las Vegas than the rural area they were living.

Almost 10 years ago I had a "simple" kidney stone.  No big deal...simple out patient procedure, you heal and move on.  Except it wasn't, and I didn't.  Due to a long list of complications, poor quality doctor and overall medical care and a huge number of pharmaceuticals that did a lot of damage on their own, the trauma continued for over 6 months and the damage to my mental health, physical health and nervous system has left me a former shell of who I was. 

When Maddie and Caleb did the little couch discussion at the end of one of the episodes it seemed as though his motivation to move back to LV was the fact that he was afraid that if Maddie needed care his illness would prevent him helping her and he wanted the extra family around for her sake as well as him having more medical options for his own health.

[AudreyHorne]

4 hours ago, Brutus Buckeye said:

Mariah's friends were absolutely awful, and the GF was not even remotely cute. Mariah looked like the cute one, by comparison. 

For whatever reason I was hoping that all of them were her GFs, because it would amuse me if she was a polygamous "male" type gal with a bunch of adoring ladies. 

Why were they awful?

[Onceafan]

Let's keep it real. This is not the family I would want to be on national television as a representation of polygamy. Before they made their money from the tv show, they:

We're receiving government assistance

Declaring bankrupticies

Defaulting on bills and credit cards

Not able to financial care for the children they had, and continued to have more

The sister wives did not get along, and couldn't even share a kitchen

When they get money and fame they:

Quickly divide themselves into four separate families

Have other relatives come to live with them to help with the children, cause they each don't care for the other's children

Say they are happier living in different homes,

Sister Wives still fighting

Live a monogamous lifestyle now, in their own home, with their own children.

Nothing about how they live now in Las Vegas is polygamous except for having the same husband. They do not live as one family!

It's a joke.

[Brutus Buckeye]

26 minutes ago, AudreyHorne said:

Why were they awful?

I'd tell you, but we've already been admonished for drifting into politics. 

[Galloway Cave]

I did like that when Janelle and Meri were forcing their way through the crowd at the march, Janelle explained to someone, "OUR daughter is somewhere up there." Not HER daughter. Nice moment.

Considering that the majority of Kody's kids will be out of the homes in the next year or so, there is little chance that Christine and Janelle will be committingk welfare fraud if they return to Utah. Kody really has nothing to worry about by going back there. With all the shit that goes on with the other sects, out in the open, LE really does not care one bit about Kody Brown and his little harem. In fact, Kody, Joe Darger, Brady Williams and families like them have absolutely nothingk to worry about. That is why they can afford to do these marches and be the visible front for polygamy (which they have been for many years) without any repercussions.

[xwordfanatik]

18 hours ago, Kyanight said:

Poor unwanted girl baby.  Hopefully they will ONLY have boys.

Just like I hope the Duggar spawn only have boys.  Girls are of no value except for their ability to spew out spawn, in both of these cults, seems to me.

[Brutus Buckeye]

11 minutes ago, Galloway Cave said:

I did like that when Janelle and Meri were forcing their way through the crowd at the march, Janelle explained to someone, "OUR daughter is somewhere up there." Not HER daughter. Nice moment.

Considering that the majority of Kody's kids will be out of the homes in the next year or so, there is little chance that Christine and Janelle will be committingk welfare fraud if they return to Utah. Kody really has nothing to worry about by going back there. With all the shit that goes on with the other sects, out in the open, LE really does not care one bit about Kody Brown and his little harem. In fact, Kody, Joe Darger, Brady Williams and families like them have absolutely nothingk to worry about. That is why they can afford to do these marches and be the visible front for polygamy (which they have been for many years) without any repercussions.

 

Untrue.

A Judge (Waddoups) already ruled the Utah cohabitation laws unconstitutional after the Browns left, and the Utah Religiouslature reworded the laws so that it was once again a felony.

Then they declared that the Browns didn't have standing to challenge the new wording of the law, since they no longer live in the State.

So obviously the State isn't over it yet. 

Edited February 19, 2018 by Brutus Buckeye

[xwordfanatik]

18 hours ago, jacksgirl said:

Color me shocked. I like Mariah. She looks good, seems to have a nice group of friends, and was really working hard to mend her relationship with her mother. 

I have to admit, now that she is an adult, she's a bit more bearable than her miserable teenage self.  I wish she'd lose the hair dye, though.

Why do Mariah, Madison, and Mykelti dye their naturally (I think) blonde hair those dark shades, that don't suit them?  Aspyn has beautiful hair, and the others presumably will not have to worry about graying for years to come.  

[UsernameFatigue]

I continue to be amazed that TLC not only can drag this show out for two hours a week, but repackages old shows as new by adding a couple of scenes. (I assume, since I don't watch the reruns). What a yawn that was. I really, really, really don't care about Meri and Janelle going to a marriage counselor because they have never gotten along in the 25 years or so that they have both been married to Kody. Who cares? Not me.

I really, really hope that when Axel (horrible name) becomes old enough for Cody to take him hunting, he says "No, thanks". My dad came from a family of hunters. The first time my grandfather (who my dad worshiped) took my dad hunting at the age of 10, my dad told gramps that he would never go again.  And he never did. One of the many things that I loved and admired about my dad. 

Edited February 19, 2018 by UsernameFatigue

[Calibabydolly]

I was thinking when Janelle referred to Mariah as OUR daughter at the march in Washington, others that heard that around them in the crowd may have thought Meri and Janelle were a lesbian married couple and that Mariah was THEIR daughter! (I do not think Janelle is a secret lesbian, but LOLed anyway!)

[CofCinci]

12 minutes ago, xwordfanatik said:

Why do Mariah, Madison, and Mykelti dye their naturally (I think) blonde hair those dark shades, that don't suit them?  Aspyn has beautiful hair, and the others presumably will not have to worry about graying for years to come.  

Because Daddy likes darker hair and they all have to compete for his attention. 

[xwordfanatik]

16 hours ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

Sheesh, it's always all about Kody, all the time.  God forbid someone spend a day advancing a cause that is important to them when they could spent that time advanving a cause that is important to HIM.

I wonder if it has occurred to Kody that his wives are more into the women's march than the polygamist demonstration because on some level they know polygamy SUCKS and they would prefer to direct their efforts toward projects that will empower women as opposed to enslave and entrap them in a life of misery ...

My spiritual sister wife @Celia Rubenstein, surely you know Kody aka Doofus is going to have his own planet, and he's so much more important than any of his miserable wives, because he has a golden penis that he loves to share.  

He's an insufferable attention whore, that needs to cut that fugly mop, and stick it where the sun don't shine!  Hey Doofus, most of us don't believe in group "marriage" where the MAN gets to hold the winning hand.  Eat doo-doo.

[Kohola3]

2 hours ago, LilWharveyGal said:

Christine voiceovers that polygamist families have more cars than monogamist families.  Well, bully for you. 

Yeah, big whoop.  None of them run.  The neighbors must love having a junk car lot in the cuddle sac.

Great recap, as always LilWharveyGirl....

[Galloway Cave]

10 minutes ago, Brutus Buckeye said:

So obviously the State isn't over it yet. 

The Utah AG's office has said, in The Primer, that they will not prosecute solely for the cohabitation law. That statement came out in 2002, along with the same statement from the Arizona AG's office. Utah will only add the the cohabitation charge if there are one of these other charges: domestic violence against one of the partners, domestic violence against any children or welfare fraud. Then they will use the cohabitation charge as the bargaining chip. The last time it was charges was against Tom Green years ago. So unless Kody and Co. are committing any of the other violations besides cohabitation, they have nothing to worry about. The AGs office isn't going around charging polygamists solely for cohabitation. Local and State LE are aware of many of the polygamists families in Utah and could have arrested any number of them on the sole charge. In fact, because there were some agencies arresting and some agencies ignoring, the AG's office work and published The Primer to get all LE to handle the cohabitation charge the same way.

[Sasha888]

Anybody else notice that during the discussion about going to the march in Washington, while Kody blathered on and on about HIS cause, Janelle was saying she failed to see why the two causes had to be mutually exclusive? I agree with her, why do they have to be supportive of one but not the other? She said SEVERAL times "Kody, I don't see why they have to be mutually exclusive..." 

And Kody, of course, not only could not answer this question, but never even acknowledged that Janelle had said it! Gee, I wonder why your wives don't feel HEARD, Kody. Maybe it's because when they talk, you just bluster on without listening to what they're saying?

Good for Meri and Janelle for going anyway to support Mariah, and not buckling to Kody's stupid insistence that they shouldn't go. I'm not a Meri fan, but when she basically threw up her hands and said "Well, sorry, I'm going to support my daughter", I thought good for her....she showed a little backbone. He basically offers Meri nothing, so why should she worry if he doesn't approve. And, good for putting her daughter in front of Kodouche.

He's definitely a "face that invites a slap"! I love it!

[Gothish520]

8 hours ago, Adiba said:

This episode was pretty boring for me--although it was nice to see Mariah finally smiling and happy. However, it annoyed me that she didn't just spit out that she and Audrey are dating. Big dill. Why does everything have to be a big announcement in this family? Both Mariah and her mother have something in common--they both do the same thing when communicating--teasing with the "I've got a secret" look. 

And the giggling and dramatic pauses, ugh - just say it for cryin' out loud! 

[laurakaye]

5 hours ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

 

Therapist Nancy just lurrrrves her some Meri, doesn't she? What a pity party she let go on in that session. How completely useless the whole thing was. It was worse than a Meri/Kody therapy session - and I never thought I would see anything top the tongue baths therapist Nancy lavishes upon Kody. 

My takeaway from their session was that Meri is allowed to treat everybody else like shit because she's not doing it to be mean, she's just being defensive. If others don't get that and are hurt by her because they've misjudged her motives, that's on them. Meri has carte blanch to act any way she wants and everyone just has to dill with it.

Not only is that some bullshit in terms of being responsible for your own behavior no matter how you're feeling, it doesn't even remotely jibe with what I've seen of Meri being nasty to other people. 

For example take the Thanksgiving decor debacle. Under this theory of "Poor Misunderstood Meri" she was just being "prickly" out of defensiveness or insecurity or whatever. Except there was no reason for her to be defensive or feel insecure. The holiday decorating crap was right in her wheelhouse.  She was just mad about being saddled with Janelle's participation.  So she acted controlling, territorial, condescending, and dismissive. Because she was ANGRY. Because she was RESENTFUL. Not scared, not hurt, not frightened, not insecure or any of the other nonsensical excuses she spewed out in that session. 

Meri is an angry, frustrated, resentful, lonely woman and she takes it out on the people around her, Janelle being her favorite target because she is so passive (Meri wouldn't dare treat Robyn that way and Christine wouldn't put up with it). So there is this sick dynamic that has evolved between the two of them that everyone else in the family has to deal with.

Nothing is gonna change until one of them hops off the merry-go-round and I think that person is obviously going to have to be Janelle. Instead of rolling over like a lapdog the way she did, listing all her own faults and all the ways she planned to change, she needs to grow a backbone and put her foot down with Meri. She needs to openly call her on her shit instead of being part of the excuse making team for her.  Of course the chances of that happening are around zero. And with a nice big McMansion to hide in, Janelle doesn't have to move out of the house entirely to avoid Meri like she did years ago, so they're all just gonna go on like this ... 

It just pisses me off that Janelle left that therapy session with a laundry list of her flaws and things about herself to change, while Meri left with a pass to go on being a foul hag and permission to blame others for feeling hurt by her.

Therapist Nancy is one of the worst things that ever happened to the Brown family.

****STANDING OVATION*****

[Kyanight]

Did anyone else laugh when Janelle said she felt like they were a bodily function, forcing themselves through the crowd (at the march)?  I couldn't believe she was referring to herself and Meri as "turds"!  lol

[xwordfanatik]

7 hours ago, toodles said:

That therapy session.  Meri can say hurtful things and it's OK because that's just Meri and if you're hurt that's your problem?  I hate that.  That passive aggressive bullshit makes me crazy.  You don't get to be mean and not expect people to call you out for it. Meri crying because people are "misunderstanding" her meaning?  Cut the crap, Meri.  Mariah was pissed off about the catfishing crap?  Too bad.  If you had owned the consequences of your bad decisions, then the outcome may have been entirety different.  Can you tell it just pissed me right off?

My other spiritual wife @toodles, I agree.  Meri is just a total bitch, and I hate that this therapy crap "therapist" Nancy has the balls to charge money? and get a TLC payment as well, to do nothing to change Meri one whit.  I think Mariah was always a whiny little bitch, but I would expect nothing else for Meri's kid.  

That mustard colored LulaNo crap coverup that Meri likes to sport, is just fugly as hell.  Just had to throw that in.

[Galloway Cave]

2 hours ago, Brutus Buckeye said:

They can "say" this or that until they are blue in the face. Actions speak louder than words.

Actions: Kody and his family were investigated and the investigation was closed without charges in 2012 because they never found any abuses other than the cohabitation. No one in the town I lived in was EVER charged with cohabitation, despite being in the public eye since the mid-seventies. Since The Primer was written, there have been few cohabitation charges written (possibly only Tom Green, but without PoliticsRUsPrinciple I can't verify this).

And just in case I'm pulling a Meri here, you are saying you believe that the Browns can't go back to Utah because they WILL be arrested and charged under the cohabitation law, without the additional charges? And the State of Utah has been doing this all along (action speaking louder than words)?

Edited February 20, 2018 by Galloway Cave

[Brutus Buckeye]

5 minutes ago, Galloway Cave said:

Actions: Kody and his family were investigated and the investigation was closed without charges in 2012 because they never found any abuses other than the cohabitation. No one in the town I lived in was EVER charged with cohabitation, despite being in the public eye since the mid-seventies. Since The Primer was written, there have been few cohabitation charges written (possibly only Tom Green, but without PrinciplesRUsPolitics I can't verify this).

And just in case I'm pulling a Meri here, you are saying you believe that the Browns can't go back to Utah because they WILL be arrested and charged under the cohabitation law, without the additional charges? And the State of Utah has been doing this all along (action speaking louder than words)?

That doesn't change the fact that the anti-cohabitation laws are discriminatory.

If someone is abusing their wife or child, then charge them with domestic abuse, and leave moral finger wagging out of it.

We don't keep anti-sodomy laws on the books that we can dust off in the event that a gay couple abuses a child. 

Abuse is abuse is abuse, regardless of weather the abuser is single, monogamous, polygamous, gay or straight. 

Abuse doesn't magically become worse just because the abuser happens to "cohabitate" with two or more women. 

The only reason they don't enforce the law now is because it is obviously unconstitutional. 

[Galloway Cave]

2 minutes ago, Brutus Buckeye said:

That doesn't change the fact that the anti-cohabitation laws are discriminatory.

Completely agree with all you said (and the cohabitation law also applies to gay and lesbian marriages, so it discriminates against them too)  and now I am confused. Still doesn't stop the Browns from going back to Utah. They are saying this law is the reason they can't go back. Sounds like you are discussing one issue and I am discussing another.

[Otter]

2 hours ago, Onceafan said:

Let's keep it real. This is not the family I would want to be on national television as a representation of polygamy. Before they made their money from the tv show, they:

We're receiving government assistance

Declaring bankrupticies

Defaulting on bills and credit cards

Not able to financial care for the children they had, and continued to have more

The sister wives did not get along, and couldn't even share a kitchen

When they get money and fame they:

Quickly divide themselves into four separate families

Have other relatives come to live with them to help with the children, cause they each don't care for the other's children

Say they are happier living in different homes,

Sister Wives still fighting

Live a monogamous lifestyle now, in their own home, with their own children.

Nothing about how they live now in Las Vegas is polygamous except for having the same husband. They do not live as one family!

It's a joke.

I have to quote this post too:  The only thing missing from the FLDS (Jeffs) is the child "brides" aka child rape and incest.  Both TLC and A&E have recent documentaries about that monster,  And yes, the "lost boys" ... they were threats to the old men so had to be banished before the young girls could become smitten.  Or even give a glance.  I used to watch "escaping polygamy" and those women sure didn't believe in that life.  The women and children are chattel and I believe Kody <spit> has the same attitude.  

The Browns are the same example as the FLDS to show how damaging and tragic polygamy is.  

You know that old "gotcha" question:  "When did you stop beating your wife?".  I've often pondered if he does rule his harem physically if he feels the need to exert the patriarchy.  I also ponder if he has a clue the whole thing is imploding.  Meri does and she's lighting the fuse.

[Gothish520]

6 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

Besides, just because you have a kid that is your preferred gender it doesn't mean they will have the same interests. Caleb's boy may turn out to be a computer nerd, or have interest in the arts  or be really bad at sports or maybe doesn't like to hunt. Having a boy doesn't mean he is going to follow in his footsteps. Nice if it happens but no guarantee that it will. I wish (some) men would get that through their stupid ego driven heads. 

I don't think there's anything wrong with Caleb hoping his son will like hunting. As long as he doesn't react in a negative way if his son doesn't enjoy it, there's no harm in trying to spark an interest in an activity that they can do together. 

My father is an 8th degree black belt in karate, and tried to get all four of his children involved - three girls and a boy. None of us took to it, unfortunately for my poor Dad. He never made us feel bad about it though. My brother did end up loving baseball, and was coached by Dad for years, so they had some good bonding time with that. 

But to this day, I wish I'd stuck with the karate - but I was a wimpy child and didn't like all the sparring - those kicks came way too close to my face, lol!

[MegD]

3 hours ago, Ravenna said:

I dug up something from 2012:

Per court documents filed Thursday in response to a lawsuit the TLC personalities filed against his office last year, Utah County Attorney Jeffrey Buhman declined to prosecute patriarch Kody Brown even though he has four wives—a third-degree felony under the state's bigamy laws—because an investigation failed to turn up any signs of fraud.

Instead, Buhman stipulated that he would only bring a criminal case against polygamists when "a victim is induced to marry through their partner's fraud, misrepresentations or omissions" or when one or more members of the union is subject to violence or abuse; not, he wrote, so the law could be used to suppress religious freedom.

So unless they are guilty of fraud, or abuse they can move back to Utah without any fear of prosecution. 

This would be why the US Supreme Court declined to hear the case. The 10th Circuit determined that the Browns had no reasonable fear of prosecution and lacked standing to bring the case, reversing their "victory" in district court. When the Browns appealed to the US Supreme Court, the Supreme Court declined to hear it. Kody's going to beat that dead horse long after it's become glue.

[Brutus Buckeye]

9 minutes ago, Galloway Cave said:

Completely agree with all you said (and the cohabitation law also applies to gay and lesbian marriages, so it discriminates against them too)  and now I am confused. Still doesn't stop the Browns from going back to Utah. They are saying this law is the reason they can't go back. Sounds like you are discussing one issue and I am discussing another.

If Utah didn't intend to charge the Browns with Cohabitation when/if they return to the State, then they would have accepted Judge Waddoups' ruling that the State's cohabitation laws are unconstitutional. 

Instead, they doubled down and actually made them even more unconstitutional. It's not enough for Utah that Polygamy is illegal, they have their own unique law that says that they can't even "purport" to be married for religious purposes. Up-thread you claimed Utah didn't have any anti-polygamy laws that aren't laws across the Nation. Well yes they do, and this is it. The "purporting" clause. No other state has a law against dressing up for a legally fictitious wedding, and playing house. Utah does. Other states have laws against bigamy. Utah is the only state that has laws against cohabitation. They altered the law to say that cohabitation is only illegal if you "purport" to be married for "religious purposes."

In short. It is a law specifically designed to attack the free speech of an unpopular religious group. Is there any part of the first amendment that this doesn't violate?

[Gothish520]

4 hours ago, Sasha888 said:

It is, however, IMO, sad for the children. But there are plenty of other non-polygamist people who bring children into bad situations, don't provide a healthy environment, etc. as well. I have a bad opinion of anyone, polygamist or not, having way more kids than they can afford, or pay attention to. So that is my biggest issue with this religion - they seem to encourage having TONS of kids, and encourage "bleeding the beast".

 

This reminds me of something that happened when I used to work security for a major department store. We caught a young kid, maybe 11 or 12, stealing. Being underage, we have to call the parents as well as the police. When the mother arrives, the cop starts asking her questions, and it is determined that the mother didn't know where the child had been. The cop asks, surprised: "You didn't know your kid went to the mall?" The mother replied "I have five kids, you can't expect me to know where all of them are all the time!" 

I was floored.

[RedheadZombie]

17 hours ago, Awfarmington said:

Maddie mentioned Caleb had the flu (or they thought he did?) when he was diagnosed with a PE. I could be way off here, and often am, but couldn’t the PE be a complication of the flu? If that’s true, then it’s not like he’s more of a risk than anyone else. I think it’s more a case of laziness and the cure for that is a J.O.B. 

 

I might be in the minority but I dislike Tony a fraction less than Caleb. At least he’s employed and isn’t living with his in laws. 

Maddie gave the impression that Caleb was misdiagnosed, but I'm of the opinion that she diagnosed him with the flu, and they didn't see a doctor until his symptoms grew severe.  Maddie was raised with a reluctance to go to hospitals, and I can't see how they have insurance considering they don't work.  Caleb is utterly passive, so I don't see him seeking out medical help (Maddie must have done all the pursuing in that relationship).  I'm not considering Caleb lazy, yet, but he seems to have caught the reality show bug of quitting a regular 9-5 job and relying on the dog and pony show.  

I hope Aspyn manages to avoid this route.  She, like Logan, bore the responsibility of raising their younger siblings, and both have seemed to live more independent lives off camera.

[xwordfanatik]

1 hour ago, CofCinci said:

Because Daddy likes darker hair and they all have to compete for his attention. 

Oh, now I didn't think of that...dear Robyn has dark hair!  Well, you may be right :)

So sad to be one of his 11 daughters and automatically less valued than the 7 boys.  But patriarchal bullshit rules this family, no question there.  

[Galloway Cave]

6 minutes ago, Brutus Buckeye said:

Up-thread you claimed Utah didn't have any anti-polygamy laws that aren't laws across the Nation.

Just read through my posts and it wasn't me.

9 minutes ago, Brutus Buckeye said:

If Utah didn't intend to charge the Browns with Cohabitation when/if they return to the State, then they would have accepted Judge Waddoups' ruling that the State's cohabitation laws are unconstitutional. 

Yeah, don't think the State of Utah would go through a long, drawn out court case just to target the Brown Family now. The State had a chance to arrest them while they lived in Utah and didn't.

Anyways, done with this talk until next week's show!