S02.E10: Chapter Twenty-Three: The Blackboard Jungle

[The Crazed Spruce]

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Tensions mount when the sudden shut down of Southside High forces Jughead and his fellow serpents to transfer to Riverdale High. Veronica ensures Hiram and Hermoine that she’s still on board with their plans for SoDale. Archie is conflicted when he is asked to gather some information on Hiram’s suspicious business dealings. Betty sets out on a quest to find her long-lost brother, Chic.

[Dee]

Jughead is insufferable.

[methodwriter85]

I KNEW they were going to with the Psycho Derek plot with Chic. How long until he reveals he has a back tattoo of Betty?

[jewel21]

How on earth did Jughead go from being my favourite character to the one I most want to kick in  the face? Oh, my God. Like shut up, Jughead.

Betty's brother looked psychotic from the moment we met him. Not surprised he's the black hood.

[SeanC]

Ah, this show, always a mile a minute.

Cheryl demanding her mother tear up the cheque a while ago was genuinely moving, but I also liked the reversal they do here, because (a) having money is useful, particularly for somebody like Cheryl who is used to it, and (b) Cheryl's mom seemingly reveling in discomforting her daughter with her being an escort is hilarious.  That Blossom soap opera never gets old.

The subplot about how the Lodges are vaguely shady got its first real boost so far this season here, and I'm sold on the dramatic possibilities.  Archie had some genuinely decent tactical thinking here, so that's good, even if he's still out of his depth.  Also, nice swerve on having him tell Veronica about the Betty thing that quickly.

I thought it was both smart and funny that the other Serpents don't give a damn about Southside High being shut down, because...why would they?  That place sucks, and as Toni and that other dude remarked, Riverdale High is clearly way better.

Unless "campaign contributions" are some kind of euphemism, Mayor McCoy must be really bad at fundraising, because the only way she seems to know how to raise money for a small-town (with several high schools, apparently) re-election campaign is to sell off crucial government functions.  If she's going to be that corrupt, she should at least be pocketing the cash for herself.

Weatherby being portrayed as some sort of draconian for banning gang paraphernalia was typically weird, since that, among other things, raises the question of why gang paraphernalia was allowed prior to that moment.

[HunterHunted]

Oh, this bonkers show. The rules of the regular universe don't apply here.

In Riverdale, a blue eyed blond newborn is so undesirable that he's never adopted and languishes in the foster care system. This child would grow up to be an attractive twink who is relegated to hustling and maybe janky porn in a seedy motel.  And also serial killing. Really show?

Penelope Blossom is an escort and is not going to give it up. I'm sure she's going to run a brothel at some point.

Polly is living in a cult on a Farm. And as intrusive as Alice is, she hasn't been stalking The Farm or trying to dig up dirt on them.

FBI agents just come up to 16 year olds and turn them into confidential informants.

26 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Weatherby being portrayed as some sort of draconian for banning gang paraphernalia was typically weird, since that, among other things, raises the question of why gang paraphernalia was allowed prior to that moment.

Yeah, this was pretty dumb. Gang paraphernalia isn't and shouldn't be allowed anywhere. Shut up Jughead.

[SeanC]

1 minute ago, HunterHunted said:

In Riverdale, a blue eyed blond newborn is so undesirable that he's never adopted and languishes in the foster care system.

LOL, that was the other joke I was going to make.  A boy like that (with some certification that his parents weren't drug addicts) would be immediately snapped up.  Parents would be fighting over that child.

[HunterHunted]

Just now, SeanC said:

LOL, that was the other joke I was going to make.  A boy like that (with some certification that his parents weren't drug addicts) would be immediately snapped up.  Parents would be fighting over that child.

There would have been blood in the streets as parents literally turned to murder to try to adopt that baby.

[Snookums]

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Oh, this bonkers show. The rules of the regular universe don't apply here.

 

Testify! Can I get an AMEN! This show. 

Okay, so let's start with Polly finally getting on with the main event--I can do no better than to hand this one over to my husband, who was merrily playing Skyrim during the entire broadcast: "Juniper and Dagwood? Are they elves? British rabbits? Is the Farm actually Watership Down?" Throw in Betty's totally typical Overachiever Fix-It impulse to find her long lost brother, the only blonde, blue eyed healthy white newborn whom nobody wants to adopt, and about whom Alice and Hal clearly have some....feelings and the stage is set for Act One Million of The Coopers Can Never Have Any Nice Things But Let's Face It They Kinda Keep Bringing It On Themselves Show.

Well, with that out of the way, moving on to Archie's latest are you kidding me setup; we all get that Agent Shady there isn't really FBI anything, right? We're all agreed on that? Because the actual FBI doesn't approach minors to spy on apparent Mafia doings out of fucking nowhere while obliquely threatening said minor's parents, I'm pretty sure. (I will say that at least the writers are checking themselves a wee bit by having Archie actually say doesn't my dad have to sign off on this? *aforementioned oblique threat* well, okay! at least.)  I'm guessing that guy is actually working for an angry rival don that Hiram ripped off but that's probably too prosaic for this damn show--they'll turn the dial straight up to Elder Gods, you just watch.

Cheryl! Impressive and accurate use of "Dickensian" and have to agree with you on that score; she and her mom have the unhealthiest parent/child relationship on this show and that is really saying something. And not to put down Mrs. Blossom at all, but where is she getting her customers? I guess she can offer a kind of Rich Mistress Experience or something but how big is this client pool? 

Madelaine Petsch is really, really good at turning on a dime with her character--you totally believe her as a manipulating sociopath and a sincerely messed up girl, which is exactly how she needs to be for her to work in this atmosphere. The spider pin constantly perched on her shoulder is a truly inspired costuming touch.

Speaking of manipulating: what is going on with Veronica? She seems to be playing both sides against the middle: her parents against Riverdale High, specifically. But what is her goal, precisely? Is she seeking vengeance on her parents or truly joining forces with them or what? She does seem to truly care about Archie, the doofus, and I'm glad they cleared the air about the whole Betty Kiss because that would have got tiresome pretty damn fast. (But is she as over it as she seems, hmmmm? We'll see.) 

Mayor McCoy is either really terrible at being mayor or at being corrupt, and probably both. Like, commit, woman! If you're going to be boning Keller on the down low and dredging "campaign contributions" from the Lodges just to be mayor of Bonkersville here than at least enjoy yourself a bit more!

Hi, Kevin and Josie! Bye, Kevin and Josie!

The Gang Element and what it's doing to Jughead as a character is getting to be the clonkiest, draggiest part of this show. (Not to mention how it's demanding the age old Character Flip According To This Week's Script needs from FP, who last week was blaming Jug for his plunge back into gang life and alcoholism and this week is trying to be Daddy Keep Your Grades Up.) I get that kids, especially alienated kids, often double down on bad decisions and black and white thinking in rebellion against their lives, but Jughead's trying to OutSerpent actual longtime gang members is very, very embarrassing to watch. As Toni says, our old school was a shithole! Totally down with going somewhere that has computers and books and running water! Nothing's worse than an enthusiastic newbie.

But then they have to go from totally reasonable--gang wear isn't allowed at school anywhere, Juggie, it's not some personal vendetta--into Veronica getting her parents to buy polos and khakis and Weatherbee threatening to expel the Southsiders if they don't wear them? RIVERDALE HIGH DOESN'T HAVE UNIFORMS. To demand that these kids wear specific clothing purchased for them or else IS ridiculous but apparently Jug ran out of indignation right before arriving at the one part of this plot where it would make sense!

[twoods]

I still don't understand why Veronica thought it was okay for the Southsiders to be in uniform, while the rest of the school gets to dress like a bunch of socialite 30 year olds. What they were wearing (besides those ugly ass leather jackets) was perfectly fine.

Jughead getting all pissy about not wearing his jacket that he got 2 months ago, and pretending that he didn't go to that high school for the past 2 years was absolutely bonkers. Things like this make me want to quit this show but then all the eye candy, Cheryl craziness, and nice chemistry between the cast members keeps me coming back for more. 

Betty's brother is freaking creepy. Kudos to that actor because I will not be sleeping tonight. It was nice that Archie told Veronica about the kiss instead of dragging out the angst for the next 5 episodes, but it seems as if Jug is going to be angsty enough for all of them. I'm also curious if Veronica is really okay with the shady business dealings, or if she's working with the FBI to take her parents down. 

Edited January 22, 2018 by twoods

[Snookums]

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 Kudos to that actor because I will not be sleeping tonight.

Seriously, that guy brought the gaunt cheeks and crazy eyes of a man whose life has carved him into a lunatic cymbal-monkey toy.

[WhosThatGirl]

Yeah.. I don’t know. Everything is predictable and I found this episode kind of boring actually. But it appears I’m alone in that boat. And that’s okay.  But everything I expected to happen kind of did. And yeah.. not exciting or interesting.

i had hoped they would be more creative with Betty’s brother but alas it’s one tree hill redux I guess. Which is what I thought would probably happen. And I’m not a fan.

Edited January 18, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[NUguy514]

Of all the very many unbelievable things that occurred during this episode, the most unbelievable is that Veronica Lodge, of all goddamn people, would think topazes are purple and say it out loud.

[Snookums]

They might still get creative in the Betty's Brother direction; he could be anything from a Russian spy to an escaped Arkham baby. The show keeps referencing Lovecraft, there must be a reason.

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Of all the very many unbelievable things that occurred during this episode, the most unbelievable is that Veronica Lodge, of all goddamn people, would think topazes are purple and say it out loud.

Well, I Googled and they apparently do exist, but I grew up thinking of topaz as yellow and exclusively so, and it's my birthstone! I didn't even know there were blue or green ones until well into my thirties.

Maybe they're trying to use the purple thing as showing Ronnie as the rich girl who knows her stones and wants Toni to think of her as up on the esoteric ways of gems?

[WhosThatGirl]

5 minutes ago, Snookums said:

They might still get creative in the Betty's Brother direction; he could be anything from a Russian spy to an escaped Arkham baby. The show keeps referencing Lovecraft, there must be a reason.

Yeah. I hope so because the ending scene just reinforced what I (and probably a whole others) assumed that he is either just a crazy stalker-possibly not even the real Chic- or the real Black Hood. So I hope for something better.

And this episode was just tedious for me. Veronica is boring. Her parents are far more interesting and I don’t even like them. Archie is boring. I hate the gang storyline that keeps getting worse the more they do with it enough to ruin the Jughead character. Cheryl is fine but even she can’t really save the show enough for me to think an episode is good. I don’t know. Betty is now in a psycho storyline with her brother (or maybe she’s not but I’m not holding my breath).The only thing surprising was that the show had Polly have her babies off screen without any real fanfare. What’s that about?

Edited January 18, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[nilyank]

Did Archie even see fake FBI guy's ID and badge?

[methodwriter85]

52 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

I had hoped they would be more creative with Betty’s brother but alas it’s one tree hill redux I guess. Which is what I thought would probably happen. And I’m not a fan.

It really is funny how many "homages" they do from other shows. I did love Psycho Derek, but that might have been more about loving Matt Barr. (Shame about his show on the CW bombing.) Here, I can't see anybody buying this guy as normal. He seems too crazy to even fake being normal like Derek did. My hackles went up immediately.

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Did Archie even see fake FBI guy's ID and badge?

It's Archie. He's not the brightest lightbulb now, is he? The FBI agent looked super-familiar- I thought it was the guy who was the lead in this gay romantic comedy called The Ten Year Plan named Jack Turner, but I looked him up and his part isn't listed.

Jughead, being in a gang is not the same thing as having a group of friends you get to hang out with. Things are going to turn ugly very, very fast.

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There would have been blood in the streets as parents literally turned to murder to try to adopt that baby.

Maybe he did get adopted, but then got sent back? Or as soon as a perspective parent held him, they could just feel the evil and sickness radiating off of him?

I will give them props for casting a guy who looks like he would be a seedy cam boy or whatever the hell he's supposed to be. He would definitely be on the low rent side of things, instead of Sean Cody or Corbin Fisher.

Edited January 18, 2018 by methodwriter85

[WhosThatGirl]

I hated psycho Derek on one tree hill. But maybe that’s because at that point one tree hill was getting really ridiculous and now later on I sort of laugh at it. It was bad. It was funny but really bad. Riverdale is(was?) better than that. Now however I’m not so sure.

This season just isn’t doing anything for me lately. 

[AnimeMania]

Juniper and Dagwood - She named them after her favorite drink and sandwich.

I applaud Cheryl's mother's philosophy: "get a job doing what you love and you will never work a day in your life".

Cheryl was so busy hatin' on the Serpents, she had no time for pervin' on Josie.

[NUguy514]

2 hours ago, Snookums said:

Well, I Googled and they apparently do exist, but I grew up thinking of topaz as yellow and exclusively so, and it's my birthstone! I didn't even know there were blue or green ones until well into my thirties.

While topazes can be purple (though very rarely), by far the most common color for them is yellow, and that's the color most people picture topazes as being.  It was a ludicrous line that makes no sense coming out of anyone's mouth, especially Veronica's.

[PeekaBoo]

I was laughing so much I thought I stumbled into a comedy!! lol!

I was actually impressed by the episode to be honest. Yes, it had way too many "Oh my god, are they really going for that?"-moments but overall it was good! I guess lowering your expectations do help you better-appreciate the show!!

Oh my god, I hope they all beat some sense into Jughead because really, he should just stop and please someone build up the damn drive-in so he can go back there and brood his days away... Even his dear old pa was like "Boy(love it when he says that), you've only been a serpent for a month and now its your life cause?!?!" lol.... Nah, I don't know where they're going with this (well, I understand that he's a teen and as teens, you life for your week-old causes to death) but I hope he can I don't know, grow out of I? Use his annoying powers for good or something? I mean Swords&Serpents Club? Does he really think that Weatherbee/Reggie won't find out about it?!? In another pov, its kind of cute that he found himself something/someone to call "home" even if its wrong for so many reasons!

I'm loving this Dark Archie! Now THATS what they should've started off the season with! I'm liking him and I'm liking this! He really thought (Archie-wise) through this even if i'm now uncertain whether FBI/fake FBI guy is to be trusted... I don't think he was going to reveal the Barchie kiss because he wanted to, just because he wanted to cover his ass over what happened with Nick + FBI guy. Veronica appeared to forgive but i'm not so sure, maybe that's where the Beronica tensions will start! I loved that he lost it and punched Nick! Guy deserved it!

And really?!?! Uniforms JUST for the SSH-ers?

And the bit between Fangs and Kevin?!?! Had me squeeing so loud!!! :D :D :D I say bring it on! Here's hoping they'll take a stroll down Fox Forest :D :D

OMG! Mamma Blossom become a reputed Madame?!?!  my god, the blossoms are quite something! Poor Cheryl!

and omg, "I finally get to meet my son and the only thing I do is giving dead glares at him and not say one damn word" The lack of fatherly love from Hal makes me confirm (to myself) that Chic is not their son (yeah I know, nothing new).

I was a bit disappointed that Chic is a baddie, oh the creepiness emanating from him! My god...

And Polly having the twins already... Yeah, what a way to get rid of that storyline quickly... Juniper and Dagwood!?? Hmmm...  

Eh, did I miss something or when did Josie + pussycats break up? Was it in that stalker-episode? Don't remember that part...

The show is a freaking mess but i'm loving it! It felt a lot less angstier than what we have to deal with earlier (so far of course)....

I always thought Topaz was like blue-ish (blush)... my bad!

Edited January 18, 2018 by PeekaBoo

[kissedbyarose]

LOL. This show is something else.

Swords and Serpents? Why? What exactly do they need a club for? Why you so mad Jug? Wasn’t it jusr a few weeks ago in show that he didn’t want anything to do with them? 

Ripping off any storyline from One Tree Hill is never a good idea and it seems the show wants to inherit their timeline issues as well.

FBI Agent? Right. First, Archie has TWO parents and second, their investigation relies on the sleuthing skills of a irrational teenage boy?! 

I think I’m only watching for Cheryl at this point...and FP ;)

[Kimmykun]

7 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Penelope Blossom is an escort and is not going to give it up. I'm sure she's going to run a brothel at some point.

It worked for Greer on Reign. 

[PeekaBoo]

56 minutes ago, kissedbyarose said:

LOL. This show is something else.

I know!!! (rolls eyes). You hate is so much you love it!!

 

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FBI Agent? Right. First, Archie has TWO parents and second, their investigation relies on the sleuthing skills of a irrational teenage boy?! 

They've been watching him for a bit, right?? They must be desperate to have anyone find dirt on the Lodges lol!

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I think I’m only watching for Cheryl at this point...and FP ;)

Cheryl is something!

FP really surprises me at how good he is to multitask everything.... Simple mop boy + philosophical dad by day, angry Serpent leader + drunkard + drugdealing (?) at night? And he manages to keep his good looks through all of this?!?!  <3

 

Just adding something, Hal really doesn't seem to be a good guy in all of this (not saying he's blackhood or anything)... I mean, Alice was more or less cowering and uncertain when Betty brought up the whole Chic thing. She just kept looking at him and he's just angry... How the hell are those two together? What the hell is their story? For me it looked like Chic was that one thing that they really had to sweep under the rug, that one thing they weren't suppose to bring up, ever... from the previews in the next episode, doesn't seem to get better...

Edited January 18, 2018 by PeekaBoo

[paulvdb]

Jughead was never my favorite character but I didn't mind him when he was the loner outsider who wanted nothing to do with his father and the Serpents. Can we please have that Jughead back?

[Mr. Sparkle]

Ok, help me out here. What are the circumstances for the Coopers giving Chick away? Is he not Hal's son? He seems just a few years older than Polly, how did that work out? And yeah, if I was Chick and my sisters got to grow up in a nice house while I was raised in foster care a few miles away, I'd be pretty crazy too. 

[HunterHunted]

10 hours ago, Snookums said:

And not to put down Mrs. Blossom at all, but where is she getting her customers? I guess she can offer a kind of Rich Mistress Experience or something but how big is this client pool? 

I have no idea where she's getting clients, but I wish the show would focus a little more on the parents because some of their weird goings on are more interesting than the kids. The ins and outs of how Penelope began supporting herself with sex work is kind of fascinating. I think she's probably doing a bit of humiliation and light domination.

6 hours ago, PeekaBoo said:

And the bit between Fangs and Kevin?!?! Had me squeeing so loud!!! :D :D :D I say bring it on! Here's hoping they'll take a stroll down Fox Forest :D :D

I hope that they explore this a bit. Kevin doesn't have his own storyline and he's not involved in the other storylines either. He kinda just...there. Same with Josie.

9 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

And this episode was just tedious for me. Veronica is boring. Her parents are far more interesting and I don’t even like them. Archie is boring. I hate the gang storyline that keeps getting worse the more they do with it enough to ruin the Jughead character. Cheryl is fine but even she can’t really save the show enough for me to think an episode is good. I don’t know. Betty is now in a psycho storyline with her brother (or maybe she’s not but I’m not holding my breath).The only thing surprising was that the show had Polly have her babies off screen without any real fanfare. What’s that about?

I think the biggest issue with the storylines is that the kids aren't really speaking to each other now. They aren't really involved in each other's stories. When Veronica was off hatching this plan to clothe the Southside, Archie was in pummeling Nick and Betty was tracking down Chick. Veronica didn't even run the idea about the uniforms by Kevin. That seems like a big mistake. Betty should have been doing more than asking about a referral to Jughead's social worker; she should have been pouring her heart out to Jughead about this long lost brother and her family. If anyone knows about messed up family, it's him. In the past, Betty and Jughead have been the people Archie has confided in. He needs to start talking to them both about the FBI nonsense because he's too dumb to realize how sketchy it is.

Edited January 18, 2018 by HunterHunted

[SeanC]

1 hour ago, Superclam said:

Ok, help me out here. What are the circumstances for the Coopers giving Chick away? Is he not Hal's son? He seems just a few years older than Polly, how did that work out? And yeah, if I was Chick and my sisters got to grow up in a nice house while I was raised in foster care a few miles away, I'd be pretty crazy too. 

He was the result of a teen pregnancy.

He’s probably supposed to be about ten years older than the girls, but this is blurred because the actresses are older than the characters they play.

[Ruby Red]

Oh, Jughead... He was very overdramatic. I saw someone somewhere point out how Jughead is not even aware of his own privilege and how it is so obvious he comes from a Northsider background. The reactions of Toni, Sweet Pea and the others about being transferred to Riverdale High were actually pretty cute. It was clear how the Southside High was a school providing them with little opportunities, and I think they were excited about that prospect to have a proper education, a chance to go to places in their life and things not looking so murky for them. Meanwhile, Jughead... Yes, he has been bullied at Riverdhale High, a lot of kids treated him like crap there but what he did always have were more opportunities. More chances to get out of the town and education possibilities to go to college etc. For him it was more about how the Serpents were all a bunch of misfits like him and flashbacks to that corny line from season 1 how he is a ""weirdo and doesn't fit in and doesn't want to fit in."... I mean yeah, he was being annoying and he was being ExtraTM over the jacket thing, but I guess you can kind of make sense of it...  Though it still feels weird and not well written.

And hah, I loved Toni’s “Seriously?" face when Jughead said they were being profiled. Dude, you are a white boy, are you joking? And I do like their friendship. Also, there was a bit of a Toni and Cheryl moment, wonder if there will be more interactions there in the future...

Archie is one of the characters I don't really care about, but I did like him being protective of Veronica even though I don't like violence, but you know, Nick is a gross asshole, so, But yes, what is up with him trusting some random FBI guy? Of course the Lodges are being shady and set it up so Southside High had to close down... While I was suprised Archie told Veronica about his kiss with Betty, they have not told each other everythinbg... I do wonder if Veronica and Betty will have more conflict in the future. I would like for their friendship to survive whatever conflict there may be though. And if Veronica may be supressing some insecurities.
 

Chic did gave me Psycho Derek from One Tree Hill vibes at the end.. And Clary/Sebastian from Shadowhunters/The Mortal Instruments because Sebastian would have creeped on Clary like that... Maybe Chic is tied to the Black Hood somehow, but I am not sure if he is the actual Black Hood. I don't really think so. But it was a weird scene at the end with Betty.

The pacing was weird and some parts made me feel like I was watching a Glee episode, while Betty was in One Tree Hill and Archie and Cheryl in The OC. Not sure where Jughead was, he was like Riverdale's Hamlet.
 

57 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

I think the biggest issue with the storylines is that the kids aren't really speaking to each other now. They aren't really involved in each other's stories. When Veronica was off hatching this plan to clothe the Southside, Archie was in pummeling Nick and Betty was tracking down Chick. Veronica didn't even run the idea about the uniforms by Kevin. That seems like a big mistake. Betty should have been doing more than asking about a referral to Jughead's social worker; she should have been pouring her heart out to Jughead about this long lost brother and her family. If anyone knows about messed up family, it's him. In the past, Betty and Jughead have been the people Archie has confided in. He needs to start talking to them both about the FBI nonsense because he's too dumb to realize how sketchy it is.

I have similar thoughts about this. I am all for the characters having individual storylines, but this episode felt like there were too many different things going at once and the core four meant to be best friends did not even really interact. Veronica and Archie had the most interactions and their storylines intertwined together more. When Betty and Jughead have one scene that felt a little awkward and like they are trying to act like they are just friends and everything is fine but something is just off about it. Betty asked Jughead if he could help her track down her brother, so he gave her the number of his social worker and there was that moment where FP implied Jughead did not want to go back to Riverdale High because of Betty... And nothing happened with that, I did not get the sense that was the case. And I think because Betty and Jughead are still broken up, she may just not be comfortable to pour her heart out about the family thing. They are at an odd place now. Jughead and Archie did not have a proper talk, Betty and Veronica did not either, and Jughead and Veronica rarely ever do so there is not much to expect there but I would not mind them developing a actual friendship instead of just hanging out because their boyfriend and ex-girlfriend are best friends.

[Affogato]

12 hours ago, SeanC said:

 

Weatherby being portrayed as some sort of draconian for banning gang paraphernalia was typically weird, since that, among other things, raises the question of why gang paraphernalia was allowed prior to that moment.

Never came up Northside because too ‘up scale’ for gangs. Gangs all Southside and gang paraphernalia a longtime southside high tradition. . 

[WhosThatGirl]

I didn’t my know. I’m pretty meh on this episode and this season. This episode did nothing for me or to get me excited for the rest of this season. I hate most of the storylines and I was really hoping that after the Disaster that was part A of this season Part B would be better but it doesn’t look like it.

[88Keys]

2 hours ago, Superclam said:

Ok, help me out here. What are the circumstances for the Coopers giving Chick away? Is he not Hal's son? He seems just a few years older than Polly, how did that work out? And yeah, if I was Chick and my sisters got to grow up in a nice house while I was raised in foster care a few miles away, I'd be pretty crazy too. 

We don't know for sure that he is Hal's son, right?   Could be FP's, or some other guy.  

As for Archie, isn't he supposed to be a well-intentioned but naive idiot in the comic books?  So all this dumb stuff he does is perfectly in line with his character.

[AzureOwl]

13 hours ago, SeanC said:

Unless "campaign contributions" are some kind of euphemism, Mayor McCoy must be really bad at fundraising, because the only way she seems to know how to raise money for a small-town (with several high schools, apparently) re-election campaign is to sell off crucial government functions.  If she's going to be that corrupt, she should at least be pocketing the cash for herself.

Oh, I think she is definitively pocketing the money.

Unless she has some seriously next level money laundering skills, there's no way she could possibly justify that much cash coming in as campaign donations. Because as we saw in the first season, the Lodges' "contributions" do come in the form of big bags of cash.

[Dee]

Veronica & Betty have yet to tell Josie & Kevin that their parents are having an affair.

[Artsda]

Veronica seemed to have handled Archie/Betty's kiss a little too well. No fall out at all? Not much of a reaction.

Jughead's obsession with being a Serpent is getting annoying.

Charles father is Hal? He didn't seem interested in finding him if he is, maybe it's FP? 

No way in the world Charles wouldn't have been adopted in 5 seconds. There's years of waiting list for a newborn like him.

Edited January 18, 2018 by Artsda

[Snookums]

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Did Archie even see fake FBI guy's ID and badge?

The guy did show a badge, just like on TV! But of course it could have been from a dime store, and his card could have been printed off the net. Don't any of the kids besides Jughead ever watch movies or Netflix? The first thing to do is ask for the guy's agent number, than call the FBI to confirm that he even exists, preferably with an up to date photo sent to your phone. I could probably walk up to Archie in my pajamas and tell him I worked for the NSA and we were organizing the coast's biggest jingle jangle bust in his basement and he'd be Okay!

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Cheryl was so busy hatin' on the Serpents, she had no time for pervin' on Josie.

 

I noticed that as well! Especially since one of Josie's two lines was how she was "just Josie" and reminding the viewers that the Pussycats were broken up. I guess Cheryl may have decided to back off after the Black Hood was supposedly captured and she couldn't blame the janitor for everything but that sure wasn't alluded to onscreen.

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Eh, did I miss something or when did Josie + pussycats break up? Was it in that stalker-episode? Don't remember that part...

Yes, Cheryl the Stalker had arranged for Josie to write and sing some songs for an agent or something and she was going to be paid some ludicrous amount, like five grand each? Literally too good to refuse but Val and Melody were rightfully pissed that she went behind their backs and dropped the group. Naturally none of this was even breathed at this episode (nor was Josie and Chuck's mutual attraction. I guess the Fake Black Hood's demise just hit the hard reset button for a lot of these storylines.)

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I think the biggest issue with the storylines is that the kids aren't really speaking to each other now. They aren't really involved in each other's stories.

This hits the nail on the head: they're estranged from each other, pretty much, and it's fragmenting the show in an annoying way.  I think they're trying to contrast Archie/Veronica's togetherness with Jughead/Betty's being apart but since none of them ever seem to speak anyway its effect is muted. Meanwhile Kevin sits around on the sidelines waiting for another boyfriend or some reason to exist.

I did like the careful way Betty and Jughead were with each other when she was asking for his help. They're broken up, yes, but you could feel that both of them were afraid of saying the wrong thing and starting a big fight and really being broken up, that they still wanted to be together (and now that Jug's back at Riverdale High his "my life's too dangerous for you to share, fair maiden" stance is even more ludicrous than it was before.) Normally Jug would have been with Betty every step of the way but right now he just gives her his social worker's number--the same social worker that apparently okay'd his living on his own in the trailer "as long as he checked in with his foster parents" and now with his paroled, actively involved in a gang dad, by the way--and stands back. Realistic for the circumstances but less than interesting to watch.

[AnimeMania]

Cheryl considers herself in the 1%, so she is hating on the Southside Sepents and any other economically challenged students.. Reggie has to protect his small time Jingle Jangle business and can't have the Southside Sepents ruin it.

[AdorkableSars]

17 hours ago, Dee said:

Jughead is insufferable.

13 hours ago, twoods said:

Jughead getting all pissy about not wearing his Jacket that he got 2 months ago, and pretending that he didn't go to that high school for the past 2 years was absolutely bonkers. Things like this make me want to quit this show but then all the eye candy, Cheryl craziness, and nice chemistry between the cast members keeps me coming back for more. 

Yes. He truly is insufferable. He was easily my favorite character last season, but all of this Serpent stuff has turned him into a whiny little bitch. Chill Jughead...even Sweet Pea is being more calm and normal than you about all of this. And the fact that Jughead joined the gang at all is still dumb (but somewhat understandable) to me, since he was so vehemently opposed to it until FP went to jail. But he is taking his commitment to the gang too far. Like Toni said, just don't wear the jacket at school. Really not that hard, dude. He has so much promise, but this getting to be a real drag...and yeah bro...you WENT to Riverdale High for a long ass time. You know it's better than Southside High. And the Whyte Wyrm can be your "home". How about you just let school be school? Wear normal clothes, ignore Reggie, and just get your learn on. 

I appreciate that FP tries to be a good dad to Jughead, and it's obvious that he loves his son like crazy, but man, did he mess Jughead up. No, he didn't force Jughead to join the Serpents, but lived his life in such a way that made Jughead believe that joining the Serpents would be OK. 

That being said, I did enjoy the Jughead humor we got this episode. Especially his pinky raise while referring to the "Park Avenue Lodges".

13 hours ago, Snookums said:

Cheryl! Impressive and accurate use of "Dickensian" and have to agree with you on that score; she and her mom have the unhealthiest parent/child relationship on this show and that is really saying something. And not to put down Mrs. Blossom at all, but where is she getting her customers? I guess she can offer a kind of Rich Mistress Experience or something but how big is this client pool? 

Madelaine Petsch is really, really good at turning on a dime with her character--you totally believe her as a manipulating sociopath and a sincerely messed up girl, which is exactly how she needs to be for her to work in this atmosphere. The spider pin constantly perched on her shoulder is a truly inspired costuming touch.

 

I am so happy there was so much Cheryl this episode. She is the only character who isn't completely making me lose my mind this season. And Madelaine Petsch really deserves more screen time. She is so good, and there is so much potential for Cheryl storylines. I need a break from Serpent!Jughead, DarkDreary!Betty, Scheming!Veronica, and Impulsive!Archie. 

 

9 hours ago, PeekaBoo said:

And the bit between Fangs and Kevin?!?! Had me squeeing so loud!!! :D :D :D I say bring it on! Here's hoping they'll take a stroll down Fox Forest :D :D

 

Team Kangs!!!!!!!! I squeeed too! Let's let Kevin be happy. Someone on this damn show needs to be. And yay for Fangs getting lines, and more eye candy for us! 

8 hours ago, PeekaBoo said:

FP really surprises me at how good he is to multitask everything.... Simple mop boy + philosophical dad by day, angry Serpent leader + drunkard + drugdealing (?) at night? And he manages to keep his good looks through all of this?!?!  <3

Yeah man! Jughead - take notes from your hot dad. You can chill on the whole "being a Serpent" thing by day. For the love of Hot Dog, please...

5 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

I think the biggest issue with the storylines is that the kids aren't really speaking to each other now. They aren't really involved in each other's stories. When Veronica was off hatching this plan to clothe the Southside, Archie was in pummeling Nick and Betty was tracking down Chick. Veronica didn't even run the idea about the uniforms by Kevin. That seems like a big mistake. Betty should have been doing more than asking about a referral to Jughead's social worker; she should have been pouring her heart out to Jughead about this long lost brother and her family. If anyone knows about messed up family, it's him. In the past, Betty and Jughead have been the people Archie has confided in. He needs to start talking to them both about the FBI nonsense because he's too dumb to realize how sketchy it is.

This bothered me too. Archie and Jughead didn't even have one conversation tonight. They're supposed to be best friends, right? They are both  being complete dolts in soooo many ways right now. If they talked, I feel like they could help each other. ("Hey Jug, I'm helping an FBI agent bring down Ronnie's Dad..." "Do you actually know that he's an FBI agent, Arch? Get some proof ASAP." ; "Hey Arch, my life is over because Weatherbee won't let me be a Serpent here, and being a Serpent is ALL I KNOW." "Jug, you wrote for the Blue & Gold when you went here before...you know, those two years that you went here before you went to Southside High for like a month? And since Betty is busy tracking down her creepy ass brother and catching serial killers, the Blue & Gold needs an actual employee.")

4 hours ago, Ruby Red said:

Oh, Jughead... He was very overdramatic. I saw someone somewhere point out how Jughead is not even aware of his own privilege and how it is so obvious he comes from a Northsider background. The reactions of Toni, Sweet Pea and the others about being transferred to Riverdale High were actually pretty cute. It was clear how the Southside High was a school providing them with little opportunities, and I think they were excited about that prospect to have a proper education, a chance to go to places in their life and things not looking so murky for them. Meanwhile, Jughead... Yes, he has been bullied at Riverdhale High, a lot of kids treated him like crap there but what he did always have were more opportunities. More chances to get out of the town and education possibilities to go to college etc. For him it was more about how the Serpents were all a bunch of misfits like him and flashbacks to that corny line from season 1 how he is a ""weirdo and doesn't fit in and doesn't want to fit in."... I mean yeah, he was being annoying and he was being ExtraTM over the jacket thing, but I guess you can kind of make sense of it...  Though it still feels weird and not well written.

And hah, I loved Toni’s “Seriously?" face when Jughead said they were being profiled. Dude, you are a white boy, are you joking? And I do like their friendship. Also, there was a bit of a Toni and Cheryl moment, wonder if there will be more interactions there in the future...
 

You make good points about Jughead and why he was so gosh darn obsessive about the jacket thing. But like you said, the writing is awful, and this just doesn't seem like the Jughead from last season. Yes, he was weird, but he was also sweet, smart, and reasonable. 

I really adore Toni and Jughead's friendship. Girlfriend was making some killer "WTF" faces in this episode, and I approve. I hope we see more of their friendship going forward. At least she is trying to keep Jughead in check. Maybe she can get through to his dramatic teenage ass eventually. 

[PeekaBoo]

2 hours ago, Snookums said:

This hits the nail on the head: they're estranged from each other, pretty much, and it's fragmenting the show in an annoying way.  I think they're trying to contrast Archie/Veronica's togetherness with Jughead/Betty's being apart but since none of them ever seem to speak anyway its effect is muted. Meanwhile Kevin sits around on the sidelines waiting for another boyfriend or some reason to exist.

I like it and dislike it.... I like that they have their own things because they should be able to stand alone and deal with their stuff alone but like previously mentioned, its even weirder that Archie + Jughead wouldn't have exchanged words when they got to school. Do they even still consider themselves friends after they went to Greendale together or not with that mysterious box? I don't even know at this point. And Betty not even present when the Serpents get there or being in the school scenes at all? Yeah, I understand she has her own thing but still.... It took me 2 viewings to realize that it was Josie that was hidden behind Kevin in that lounge...

 

3 hours ago, Artsda said:

Veronica seemed to have handled Archie/Betty's kiss a little too well. No fall out at all? Not much of a reaction.

Bring out the claws! I think she's going to turn nasty on Betty, willingly or not...

3 hours ago, Artsda said:

Charles father is Hal? He didn't seem interested in finding him if he is, maybe it's FP? 

If Hal is the dad, he is far from being father of the year!

 

5 hours ago, Sonoma said:

Not sure what they're doing with Veronica? Her demeanor with the Serpents came across as so elite and condescending. Grandly welcoming them like they were lost little street urchins, buying them clothes so they could "fit in"? I get it's part of her character and she means well but I still found it very obnoxious. And then the whole thing about straight up lying to and manipulating your friends in order to support your parents' shady business dealings. At this point I kind of hope they just make her be a little villainous for me

I actually wouldn't mind it because I just cannot get into Varchie. I know the showrunners were/are trying to get them to or close to Bughead status (cue the kiss at Pops with the supercouple lighting). Although I find them likeable and I like the characters individually, I'm bored by the couple and not invested in their storyline together. I'd love to see them paired up with other characters. I actually see more fire from Veronica towards Reggie than Archie. to buy this.

Yeah, She was a bit too sugar sweet, I hope none of them bought it... They seemed quite gullible... I'm not impressed with her manipulative ways....

WHile Archie's loyalty and protectiveness over Veronica is cute as hell, a relationship where they are both withholding the truth is not viable! A break up at the end of the season? not sure but when they both learn the truth.... who knows what'll happen...

 

5 hours ago, Sonoma said:

I know Bughead only had one scene together but I liked it fine. They're trying to be friends but you can see the love is still there. And for good measure they made FP reassure fans lol. I also like that they set them up in separate storylines before having them interact at school together again. If they do get back together I don't want it to just be about them as a couple. They're interesting characters in their own right. 

It was only one scene but it was enough...

[CletusMusashi]

So, Weatherby isn't at all bothered by the fact that the name of the Serpent club has "Serpents" in it? That wasn't a deal breaker? 

[Snookums]

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Polly is living in a cult on a Farm.

Yup. If it's got leaders it's a cult.

[Guest]

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Ok, help me out here. What are the circumstances for the Coopers giving Chick away? Is he not Hal's son?

I thought that it had at least been implied that he was FP's?

[catrice2]

Please...why use the name of a really good movie as the title for this really BAD episode? I don't know where to start....but I see I was not wrong about the long lost brother. 

[ottoDbusdriver]

On a completely superficial note, Cheryl ..... errr, Fascist Barbie ..... looked smoking hot in that red dress.

[Simba122504]

On 1/18/2018 at 1:23 AM, WhosThatGirl said:

I hated psycho Derek on one tree hill. But maybe that’s because at that point one tree hill was getting really ridiculous and now later on I sort of laugh at it. It was bad. It was funny but really bad. Riverdale is(was?) better than that. Now however I’m not so sure.

This season just isn’t doing anything for me lately. 

I loved because it gave me a case of the giggles. Soap opera ridiculousness that always hit my funny bone. Something that I'm against this season is the fact that it's 22 episodes. Nick St. Clair is scum but I find the actor kind of cute.

[thuganomics85]

Oh, Riverdale.  You never fail to amaze me!

Yeah, "FBI Agent" totally has to be a fake, right?  Archie might be... well, Archie, but even he pretty much nailed it when he pointed out that shouldn't his dad really be present for all of this.  No real agent in their right mind would hinge their entire case on a high schooler as a freaking informant.  No fucking way.  And agreeing that easily that neither Fred or Veronica will be touched if he gets dirt to put away Hiram and Heromine?  Nope, not buying it.  Dude is no fucking agent.  My best guess is that he has been hired by a rival of the Lodges to get dirt on them to blackmail or something. 

Anyway, so the next part of the Lodges and Mayor McCoy's Grand, Sinister Plan involves buying out the land underneath Southside High, so they find a silly excuse to shut it down, leading to Jughead, Toni, Sweet Pea, and a few other Serpents getting sent to Riverdale High.  Naturally, this leads to a welcoming committee led by Veronica that comes off hilariously condescending like only Veronica can do (I say that with love, Ronnie!), and then, of course, Cheryl and Reggie being King and Queen "Fuck you, Southside Serpents!", and causing drama like only they can.  Classic!  And then when Weatherbee demands they all no longer wear their jackets, Jughead throws a hissy fit about it.  Yeah, this is what you need to be taking a stand about, buddy.  But thanks to FP verbally smacking him on the head, Jughead is now playing along and has even formed a "gaming club", which is really just an excuse for the former Southside Serpent guys to do their own thing.  Am I to believe that Weatherbee really didn't see that?

Side-eyeing Veronica over how she forgave Archie for kissing Betty as easily as she did.  There is either another angle to this or she really hasn't allowed herself to feel emotions over this revelation.  I mean, yeah, there's the whole "We were on a break!" Ross-style excuse, but he still moved on pretty quickly after their brief break-up.

As usual, everything involving the Blossoms was insane but the greatest thing ever.  Cheryl owns me.

In order for Alice and Hal to move on from Polly wanting nothing to do with them, Betty tracks down their son, Chic!  Who... is likely a big old creepy.  Of course he is!

I will say that if Reggie himself actually did that tagging to set-up the Southside kids, I'm surprisingly impressed by his artistic skills.  Reggie has layers!

Oh, you crazy show!  What will you think up of, next?!!

Edited January 20, 2018 by thuganomics85

[kissedbyarose]

Let’s say the writers aren’t 100% transparent and the FBI case is real (though I’m sure Archie’s MOM would also need some heads up since they suspect Fred’s right) wouldn’t this investigation expose Mayor McCoy too? Because she ain’t subtle.

[Enginerd]

So...someone is going to get tortured in Archie's soundproof music practice garage, and no one will hear the cries for help, right? Why else would they mention so many times that it's soundproof?

Also, I love Fred's support of Archie's music ambitions. "Music? Okay! I made you this nice soundproof room so I don't have to listen to it!" I totally feel you, Fred.

Jughead, you dumbass. Where was your sense of righteous indignation when you were attending a school that was part of the same district as Riverdale High, so had the same source of funding, and yet was a dangerous hellhole without adequate sanitation and textbooks? Wasn't THAT the scandal, that the municipality was not fairly funding and maintaining one of their schools? Glad the other Serpents called him on the stupidity of objecting to going to a better school. He's leaning into his new identity WAY too hard. Few things are as annoying as the zeal of a fresh convert.

How are those dorky khakis and polo shirts supposed to help them fit in? Aside from the gang insignia jackets, the Southsiders' own clothes were fine, just normal teen casual wear. Backhanded "helping" there, Veronica.

[dwmckim]

Since the show loves to do homages to Twin Peaks whenever it gets the chance, i totally perked up when i caught the flickering lights in the motel.  Flickering lights/electricity is a major motif in TP signifying danger/evil (typically involving the supernatural dark forces).  The show wasn't too subtle about Chic being creepy and not to be trusted at episode's end - but with the addition of the flickering lights, i take that as a signal that he's involved in multiple levels of darkness.

Since i always watch with subtitle captioning on, i lol'ed at the scene where Betty and Alice were getting into the car as the captions read "Keys jangling" and all i could think was "Jingle Jangle"

[WhosThatGirl]

I’m still a couple days later meh on this episode. The first half of this season got my emotions to the point where I was flabbergasted by the choices of the show and confused at how the second season was going in a direction that didn’t make sense and I didn’t watch the Christmas episode and then this one the return from the winter break has me. Feeling nothing? 

Im not excited at all for Chic. At least not yet, given that the writers seem to be rehashing plots from One Tree Hill and The OC. Hopefully it doesn’t go there; I feel like this show doesn’t always do the unexpected so I’m hoping it’s different but then again I don’t even know what this show is anymore.

Like I said in a earlier post was I’m surprised they didn’t make Polly’s babies birth a thing. I mean.. personally I honestly don’t give a damn but this was a big thing for the show wasn’t it? Last season it was. But no she had them off screen and it was kind of like a oh “by the way” type of announcement.