S07.E07: RUNWAYS, REHAB, AND RETAIL

[CofCinci]

Not to beat the EMBA dead horse, but the EMBA is usually more expensive because the employer will often pay for the program. 

3 hours ago, woodscommaelle said:

Except neither of them seem to care much for Nova. I would think they'd want the other to get custody. 

They would fight over custody because the loser will have to pay child support and most likely lose the best house. 

[Cherry Cola]

Cherrycola EMBA MD LMT RN here, Deb is an idiot.  Who puts that on a wedding invite? I know that has been asked several times, but too funny!!!

I didn't get why a head tattoo would be cute.  Creepy, I think!  What a wacked out family.  

TierraReign shirts can go away now. 

[lezlers]

19 hours ago, druzy said:

Did Maci eat that whole container of noodles? If so, she is blessed with an amazing metabolism. 

I was thinking that same exact thing during that scene!  I've known bitches like her and I hate them all.  Eat like teenage boys and stay painfully thin.  A pox on them all!

19 hours ago, TeeMo said:

I was very uncomfortable with the way Amber talked about Leah in between the tequila shots. "She is perfect for me. She just gets me. She understands me. She just loves me." And then she added something like "And I try as hard as I can to show I love her." Um, who is the mother here? You shouldn't be relying on your 7 year old for that kind of validation and understanding like a BFF who puts up with all of your BS and still loves you anyway. Leah should be getting that FROM Amber no the other way around, at least not at 7 years old. 

I felt exactly the same way.  It was all about what Leah could do for Amber.  It was very enlightening.  I also loved when Amber said to NewMatt that she didn't want a bunch of guys in and out of Leah's life because "I'm not that."  OH HONEY.  You are EXACTLY that.  You cannot exist without someone "taking care" of you, unless you're in gel.  Poor Leah.  It must suck to have such a fuck-up for a "mom."  Thank god for Kristina. 

[woodscommaelle]

24 minutes ago, CofCinci said:

They would fight over custody because the loser will have to pay child support and most likely lose the best house. 

But yes, there's this too. 

[ReadMeLattice]

Am I the only one creeped out by how much New Matt actually looks like Matt? And how similar their mannerisms are?

[lezlers]

15 hours ago, GreatKazu said:

Amber - her eyes were extremely dilated in her tequila shot scene. Bitch was high and it had nothing to do with alcohol. 

She told Baby Huey her visitations with Leah are every Wednesday and every other weekend. That is 52 days in 2017 where she should have been with Leah at the very least, if she followed through with only the Wednesday visits. At that point, she only had TWO visits in the summer. Not sure how many before that where she actually spent time with Leah that didn't involve texting or Face-Timing. 

I hope Gary is keeping track of all of these non-visits the same way he is keeping track of non-payment of child support. 

Major eye-roll at Tyler telling Butch how he needs long-term help, not this 30 day jazz like before. Hmm...you mean the way Cate handles her rehab? 

Well, in Tyler's defense Butch has been a meth addict for at LEAST twenty years, probably longer.  Cate smokes weed.  Different animals.  And Butch DOES need a long term rehab.  No 31 day spin dry is going to cure his disease.  I'm looking at YOU, Ryan. 

[CofCinci]

20 minutes ago, Lm2162 said:

Am I the only one creeped out by how much New Matt actually looks like Matt? And how similar their mannerisms are?

I think Andrew was even wearing Matt’s greasy glasses. 

15 minutes ago, lezlers said:

Well, in Tyler's defense Butch has been a meth addict for at LEAST twenty years, probably longer.  Cate smokes weed.  Different animals.  And Butch DOES need a long term rehab.  No 31 day spin dry is going to cure his disease.  I'm looking at YOU, Ryan. 

Catelynn smokes more than weed. Her excitement with April about Boogeytown was not weed. They smoke that shit all day. Catelynn didn’t go to rehab for depression+weed. 

[CofCinci]

10 hours ago, ghoulina said:

And I LOVED that Leah knows exactly what's up. "Tell me who that really was". Poor Leah. She's in for a long run of disappoints from her mother. Hearing how Amber talks about her daughter was really disturbing. "I didn't want kids, but Leah is perfect for me. She understands me. She does everything she can for me." I've never, in my life, heard a parent speak about their child like it. It's all about what Leah can do FOR HER. What if the next child doesn't get you? Or try so hard to please you? Amber is legit fucked up and she doesn't see it.

I find myself wondering...  Did Amber know she was pregnant during her “Leah is perfect for me” musing?  In the context of an unplanned pregnancy during a chaotic time of her life, one could interpret the conversation as Amber wondering if she should abort. Next week we see the pregnancy test scene but, like Maci, the scene is probably fake.  I bet Amber knew she was pregnant before telling Baby Huey.  She wanted a test drive with him before deciding to tell him about the pregnancy/“keep it”.   That odd conversation was Amber processing her thoughts and feelings about motherhood without doing so in an obvious style. 

Edited January 10, 2018 by CofCinci

[woodscommaelle]

The whole Abraham family is like a science experiment gone very, very wrong. 

[lezlers]

2 hours ago, Calm81 said:

LMAO! When I was 23 years old I worked for Burger King. I was promoted to shift manager and was so proud of myself but I was ashamed of it outside of the home of the whopper. I would wear professional looking clothes on the way to work and change in the restaurant bathroom then rechange into my professional clothing to head home as I was usually running errands on the way.

My insecurity stemmed from rude customers throwing a few “go back to school!” and “My 10 year old son makes more money than you doing his paper route” during moments of telling them “I’m sorry we don’t serve breakfast at 1pm”. Even though I was in college, I still wanted to shake that identity outside of work because people would give me weird looks if I was shopping around the grocery store with the Burger King name tag on. People are cruel. 

My point of this story is, once I graduated college and worked hard to land my dream job I purposely wore my career clothes everywhere while throwing around the “I ran out of time and couldn’t change” excuse just so that people could see that I had a good job. 

If I’d become a doctor I would sleep in my scrubs ??????

Your post just got me reflecting. I will NEVER judge a person that works any type of job that is honest and brings home a paycheck to feed a family.

Sorry for the off-topic ramble lol. Now, people that wear their fancy career clothes just to make others feel like crap can go pound sand - me, I was just a proud girl that was having a “I finally DID IT” moment. Lol

I'm sorry people were so fucking horrible to you.  People can really suck, sometimes.  I'd take a down to earth Burger King employee over a douchebag EMBA asshole any day of the week.

Technically, I could put J.D or Esquire (if I want to be SUPER douchy) on stuff as a professional designation, but I don't because I'm not a douchebag.  I did, however, see a colleague of mine's checks before and noticed he actually had "esquire" after his name.  He still hasn't lived it down.  WHO DOES THAT?

35 minutes ago, CofCinci said:

I think Andrew was even wearing Matt’s greasy glasses. 

Catelynn smokes more than weed. Her excitement with April about Boogeytown was not weed. They smoke that shit all day. Catelynn didn’t go to rehab for depression+weed. 

What does she use?  

Edited January 10, 2018 by lezlers

[AirQuotes]

I worked with a nurse who had RN, BSN after her name on her checks. lol

[usernameG]

Is it me or does Gary have multiple Dad Bod shirts? I crack up every time I see him wearing one.

Watching these Teen Moms on the red carpet made me want to barf. These girls are going to have a hard crash after this show goes off the air and they run out of money. Also, I would hate to see Sophie has a teenager. She's an asshole in the making. 

[lezlers]

28 minutes ago, AirQuotes said:

I worked with a nurse who had RN, BSN after her name on her checks. lol

I wish I could get a job for like, a month, working at a bank and approving check orders so I could call people and be like "I'm sorry maam/sir, but we can't print this on your check.  There's too much douche required and our machine will break down."

[Lusterleaf]

New Matt is creepy. I give it a year until they are split up. In this case Amber will have another kid that she won’t pay attention to. 

Was it just me or did Ryan seem high at the restaurant with Mac? I really can’t feel bad for her because she knew what she was getting into. I mean she married him while he was high out of his mind.

Debz OG and Farrah need to stop hanging around each other, they are constantly fighting in front of Sophia. 

On another note my 2 year old caught me watching the show and referred to Debz OG as “Elsa” with her braid and Farrah as Ariel 

[SPLAIN]

1 hour ago, lezlers said:

Well, in Tyler's defense Butch has been a meth addict for at LEAST twenty years, probably longer.  Cate smokes weed.  Different animals.  And Butch DOES need a long term rehab.  No 31 day spin dry is going to cure his disease.  I'm looking at YOU, Ryan. 

But Cate is not in rehab for weed. She goes in to de-stress. Yeah, I don't believe that shit.  Cate needs long-term help for many problems, none of these 30 day rehab stints. Weed is the least of those problems, but nonetheless, it is a problem that needs to be addressed because she is using that in place of prescription medication and who knows what else she is abusing.

1 hour ago, CofCinci said:

I think Andrew was even wearing Matt’s greasy glasses. 

Catelynn smokes more than weed. Her excitement with April about Boogeytown was not weed. They smoke that shit all day. Catelynn didn’t go to rehab for depression+weed. 

We are on the same thought pattern.

I am guessing Andrew bought those yellow pants in Hawaii.

I cannot grasp what is the purpose of Farrah dragging Deb around if she is so annoyed and bothered by her. Deb breathes wrong and it brings out the worst in Farrah. Sinister Sophia is the new evil child of the franchise.

Edited January 10, 2018 by SPLAIN

[CofCinci]

21 minutes ago, usernameG said:

 

Is it me or does Gary have multiple Dad Bod shirts? I crack up every time I see him wearing one.

 

 

I think they edited Amber’s ONE visit with Leah into two episodes. 

[Rebecca]

That was quite the giant container of soup(?) Maci was eating from their takeout. How do you spell “property of Los Angeles” wrong for your stupid shirts and not “see” it? The last thing they need is an office with beer on tap (wtf?). All that crap (ice cream socials) is going to distract Maci and Taylor and they won’t get anything done there. I can’t believe they sell even one ugly shirt a day.

Amber’s new boyfriend is already creepy. “Still a kid himself” um, ok, grey hair. I also find him very nearly as unattractive as Matt physically. So Gary has to do the introductions with NewMatt and Leah? Amber calls that an ambush? If I were Gary I’d be like, I’m watching you, motherfucker. Amber has no judgement. No tv? Suuure. Pretty sure all Amber does is lounge and watch tv. Does he even couch?! It’s swell that Amber thinks Leah exists to console her and love her...instead of the other way around. What a failure of a mother.

Catelynn and Amber both looked like god damn fools at the MTV awards in those ensembles. If the name “Tierra Reign” doesn’t scream pornstar, I’m not sure what does. Catelynn and Tyler are extremely annoying and not fun to watch, even when they’re not denigrating Carly’s parents. 

Debra’s hair is beyond ridiculous and I just can’t stand her nasally fucking baby voice any longer. Debra Danielson, EMBA is the biggest whack job. I honestly feel for Farrah. I feel like as fucked as Sophia’s life has been, Farrah’s had to be worse with that thing (Debra) as her mother. She’s far crazier than Farrah. Sophia still needs some outside help...it’s hard to watch her behavior. I can’t imagine fashion shows and the like will help... I do recall that Sophia was NOT at the wedding but Farrah was, so I think Sophia genuinely doesn’t want to be around David and or Debra.

No way Ryan wasn’t “medicated” in the car. Also? Lolz at Ryan giving driving advice. Mackenzie is painfully stupid. What the fuck did she expect from any of this? I will say, she looked younger than she usually does in the scene with her friend. Ryan cares so much about letting himself go physically but has little to no fucks about his lack of parenting his son. There’s no fucking way he’s no taking benzos.

Edited January 10, 2018 by Rebecca

[TexasGal]

I think my DVR has revolted, the recording of this episode keeps freezing and garbling.  Maybe I should listen.

Edited January 10, 2018 by TexasGal

[SPLAIN]

Quote

That was quite the giant container of soup(?) Maci was eating from their takeout. How do you spell “property of Los Angeles” wrong for your stupid shirts and not “see” it?

And of course, it took someone on Twitter to point that out to her. She must have been drunk when she spelled that out.

I bet she knows how to spell Budweiser with ease.

[TheRealT]

13 hours ago, mamadrama said:

It kind of pisses me off, for Ryan's sake, that Mack keeps making a big deal over all this "wedding" stuff. Girl, your man just "graduated early" from rehab. How about instead of putting him through one of the most stressful situations a relationship can go through, you accept the fact that the deed is done (even though he won't remember it) and focus on his sobriety? 

 

13 hours ago, ghoulina said:

There is so much tension with those two. It's like Ryan woke up from his drug haze and was like, "I got married??? To this????" 

Although, I still think he's using. Maybe not as much, but something. I can tell he's using when he's super nice to Mackenzie. LOL

Mack and Ryan's relationship is just odd to me. Does she have anything going on in her life besides being married to him? I'm kind of assuming not. They had a conversation on the show about how he was high throughout their premarital relationship and lied to her constantly. How is that a good basis for a relationship? I think he's sticking with her (thus far) because 1) he hopes she'll help him stay sober (or at least relatively stable) and 2) he doesn't want to "look like a fuck up" for having a super brief marriage after a wedding he was probably too high to remember. I assume that she's sticking with him because 1) she likes being on TV, 2) she likes being financially supported by him (from his MTV money) and his family, and 3) she doesn't want to look like a fuck up for having 2 brief marriages before she's 25, one to a junkie who was high during their wedding.

Ryan's reasoning makes more sense to me than Mack's. From his perspective, if things go well, she'll support him in getting his life together, at which point he can leave her if he hasn't "truly fallen in love with her" by then. Since she's not a heroin addict, she should realize that the likelihood that Ryan will turn into Prince Charming and make all her dreams come true is approximately nil. Best case scenario, he gets his shit together and leaves her (or stays with her because he's so beholden to her for how she "saved" him). It seems sad that a 23-year-old (or however old she is) wouldn't aspire to something more than that. I think that Jen and Larry are financially comfortable and help Ryan out a lot, but I don't think they're rich and Ryan's professional prospects (IF he can get himself together and hold down a job) aren't stellar. If a 23-year-old woman is going to sell her soul for financial security, she should probably be looking for a better situation than that. And, though I don't really know, Mack doesn't seem like she comes from a very poor family and would be dazzled by Jen & Larry's middle- to upper middle-class wealth. On one level, she seems pragmatic/scheming beyond her years, but a true "bad bitch" with a kid and a divorce under her belt wouldn't be interested in saddling herself with an unemployed heroin addict whose greatest assets are codependent parents of moderate means and a career as a second-string character on a reality show.

6 hours ago, ghoulina said:

Jenelle does the exact same thing. It's like that's the only thing to bond over with the new guy - how crazy the old one was.

There isn't a lot of there there with Amber or Jenelle. They can't bond with their new soul mates over their mutual love of James Baldwin, or the classes they're taking about Eastern European politics, or the work they've been doing building an orphanage in Croatia. Or even what happened yesterday at their job at Walmart. So they bond over relationship stuff- what type of partner do you like/not like? what did you like/dislike about your ex? what are you looking for in a relationship? Etc., etc., etc., ad nauseam.

Edited January 10, 2018 by TheRealT

[ReadMeLattice]

13 hours ago, mamadrama said:

It kind of pisses me off, for Ryan's sake, that Mack keeps making a big deal over all this "wedding" stuff. Girl, your man just "graduated early" from rehab. How about instead of putting him through one of the most stressful situations a relationship can go through, you accept the fact that the deed is done (even though he won't remember it) and focus on his sobriety? 

Is there ANYONE on this series who has legit just had *one* wedding? It's like a tradition to have 50 engagements and 3 weddings, even to the same person. 

[Rebecca]

9 hours ago, Pepper Mostly said:

I concur with every word, except the "Amber sees herself as Sylvia Plath" part. If Amber has ever even heard of Sylvia Plath, I will walk naked down Massachusetts Avenue in a snowstorm, singing "I'm a Little Teapot". The closest that girl ever gets to poetry is those "inspirational" greeting cards they have at Walmart.

Though I take your meaning. If she was even modestly educated I think she'd embrace her inner Sylvia with gusto. So we do have that to be grateful for.

Agreed but if Amber is secretly Sylvia’s biggest fan and Nova somehow gets into Harvard you’re going to be busy eating Chevys and getting nekkid, lol.

2 hours ago, AirQuotes said:

I worked with a nurse who had RN, BSN after her name on her checks. lol

I want Amber (and Jenelle) to get POS written after their names. 

38 minutes ago, TheRealT said:

 

Mack and Ryan's relationship is just odd to me. Does she have anything going on in her life besides being married to him? I'm kind of assuming not. They had a conversation on the show about how he was high throughout their premarital relationship and lied to her constantly. How is that a good basis for a relationship? I think he's sticking with her (thus far) because 1) he hopes she'll help him stay sober (or at least relatively stable) and 2) he doesn't want to "look like a fuck up" for having a super brief marriage after a wedding he was probably too high to remember. I assume that she's sticking with him because 1) she likes being on TV, 2) she likes being financially supported by him (from his MTV money) and his family, and 3) she doesn't want to look like a fuck up for having 2 brief marriages before she's 25, one to a junkie who was high during their wedding.

Ryan's reasoning makes more sense to me than Mack's. From his perspective, if things go well, she'll support him in getting his life together, at which point he can leave her if he hasn't "truly fallen in love with her" by then. Since she's not a heroin addict, she should realize that the likelihood that Ryan will turn into Prince Charming and make all her dreams come true is approximately nil. Best case scenario, he gets his shit together and leaves her (or stays with her because he's so beholden to her for how she "saved" him). It seems sad that a 23-year-old (or however old she is) wouldn't aspire to something more than that. I think that Jen and Larry are financially comfortable and help Ryan out a lot, but I don't think they're rich and Ryan's professional prospects (IF he can get himself together and hold down a job) aren't stellar. If a 23-year-old woman is going to sell her soul for financial security, she should probably be looking for a better situation than that. And, though I don't really know, Mack doesn't seem like she comes from a very poor family and would be dazzled by Jen & Larry's middle- to upper middle-class wealth. On one level, she seems pragmatic/scheming beyond her years, but a true "bad bitch" with a kid and a divorce under her belt wouldn't be interested in saddling herself with an unemployed heroin addict whose greatest assets are codependent parents of moderate means and a career as a second-string character on a reality show.

You’re misjudging the allure of even third string fame to some people and Mackenzie is extra thirsty. Look at her blog, etc. She craves an audience and her marriage to Ryan provides one. I actually have decided that I don’t think she cares that no one likes her, she just wants us paying attention regardless. I also feel like she thinks she’s going to get her own spinoff or something.

Edited January 10, 2018 by Rebecca

[ReadMeLattice]

2 minutes ago, Rebecca said:

Agreed but if Amber is secretly Sylvia’s biggest fan and Nova somehow gets into Harvard you’re going to be busy eating Chevys and getting nekkid, lol.

I want Amber (and Jenelle) to get POS written after their names. 

You’re misjudging the allure of even third string fake to some people and Mackenzie is extra thirsty. Look at her blog, etc. She craves an audience and her marriage to Ryan provides one. I actually have decided that I don’t think she cares that no one likes her, she just wants us paying attention regardless. I also feel like she thinks she’s going to get her own spinoff or something.

That makes a lot of sense. I really wouldn't be able to get half the hate Mack gets on social media and keep going. Either I am very thin skinned or the thirst must be REAL. 

[CofCinci]

53 minutes ago, Lm2162 said:

Is there ANYONE on this series who has legit just had *one* wedding? It's like a tradition to have 50 engagements and 3 weddings, even to the same person. 

Say what you will about Farrah — no marriages. 

[TheRealT]

42 minutes ago, Rebecca said:

You’re misjudging the allure of even third string fame to some people and Mackenzie is extra thirsty. Look at her blog, etc. She craves an audience and her marriage to Ryan provides one. I actually have decided that I don’t think she cares that no one likes her, she just wants us paying attention regardless. I also feel like she thinks she’s going to get her own spinoff or something.

I guess you're right, but that just seems so sad to me. Even given Mack's mediocre (on a good day) looks and less-than-stellar personality, I would think she could snag some 25-30 year-old up-and-coming corporate executive, lawyer, business owner, etc. Mind you, I'm talking about in Chattanooga or its environs. I think that there are a fair number of marriage-minded, ambitious guys in places like that who are looking for a wife who can/wants to  support them in their professional/personal ambitions and would be 100% on track with the fancy wedding, Mc Mansion, making all the right moves socially, etc., etc. That seems to be what Mack's about and a publicly confessed/documented heroin addiction doesn't seem to fit into that. I could see her being initially attracted to Ryan because he was good-looking, from a "good" family, had a decent job/nice house/etc., but, upon closer examination, I would expect a "smart" girl at her level to be like, "Oh, Ryan is a heroin-addicted mama's boy who can barely wipe his ass on his own..." and move on to the somewhat geeky engineer down the street who was poised to buy a Mc Mansion for his new bride and stepson. At this point, I feel like I gave her too much credit.

Edited January 10, 2018 by TheRealT

[Soobs]

Cate and Amber at the VMA's looked like washed up country stars trying to make comebacks. They were so made up and it particularly stood out when they were being interviewed by the young, appropriately made up interviewers on the red carpet. They looked over 40.

Amber saying that Leah "is perfect for her because she always is nice to her and loves her" was beyond fucked up. This leaves no room for Leah to get mad, dislike or be disagreeable with her mother. It's the very definition of conditional love. I hope Dr. Drew calls her out on that...as if.

Felt a little bad for Cate and Tyler. Butch may not be long for this world. Drugs tend to catch up with a person after 50, healthwise and organwise too.

Did walking the runway count as home school hours for Sophia? Give this kid a normal life, please. When they were doing her make up, I noticed how much she looks like Deb.

Next week Mackenzie and Ryan go to their bachelor's party. What's after that? First date? Let's redo high school graduation and Bentley's birth. This milestone redo they keep doing is totally weird.

[mamadrama]

10 hours ago, Calm81 said:

I can’t stand it when chics (& some dudes) blabber on about their ex to their new relationship over and over again. Have some consideration. You could tell Andrew was doing his best to act like it didn’t bother him. “Oh no! Andrew, you ordered pineapple on your pizza???? Why???? Matt loves pineapple on his pizza!” Stfu!! It’s a stupid thing teenagers do to make the other one jealous or to see how “wanted” and “admired” they are by their ex lovers. No one cares that your ex-scab ate onion soup FFS!

 

My ex did that. I'm still pissed that, as someone who had free season tickets to Disney World, he never took me because it's where his ex loved to go. Bastard. I WILL get to Disney one day!

[mamadrama]

4 hours ago, AirQuotes said:

I worked with a nurse who had RN, BSN after her name on her checks. lol

My father-in-law used to address letters to my husband (you know, his son) as:

Mr. Mamadrama, MA

[Blissfool]

My heart breaks when seeing Tyler's relationship with Butch. I have a family member who is very much like Butch...cocaine; in and out of jail. He can go a few months clean, get a job, seem to be thriving, but then the urge will hit him and he will cave, bringing hurt to those of us that love and care for him. It happens just like it happened on the show. I will call him for whatever reason, no answer. I'll make myself think "he must be busy at work." Deep down i know the truth, but I refuse to face it until it is confirmed...which usually happens when hours become days and sometimes even weeks of no contact. There have been times that he really didnt answer because he WAS busy at work, and it's like a huge sigh of relief, yet the fear lingers within me because I realize it's a disappointment that WILL  be realized, just not THAT day.

When the producer asked Tyler, "Why do you really think he didn't answer?" Tyler answered, "cuz he's working." I so related ...thats what we really really hope...that he's working.

[StatisticalOutlier]

1 hour ago, CofCinci said:

Say what you will about Farrah — no marriages. 

I agree, but to be fair, Daddy Derek died, so she didn't have a chance to marry him. 

[Rebecca]

1 hour ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

I agree, but to be fair, Daddy Derek died, so she didn't have a chance to marry him. 

To say nothing of the fact they weren’t even speaking or in contact when he died..

[alexa]

Well, mtv is saving me from myself--I might not be able to stream episodes on mtv any longer.  It used to be choosing xfinity for your cable provider would simply let you log into the mtv site with your mtv log in, but now they removed xfinity as an option and all of the other cable companies require you go to their cable page to log in.  I was able to watch this episode with the 24 hour free viewing, but that will be the end of it (I don't have cable anymore--I just use amazon fire tv and stream).  This is actually a good thing.  I kept watching even though all of these girls annoy me to no end.

As for this episode, it is kind of sickening how Amber gives her new man those lovesick eyes.  I just don't need to see that.  Ryan is still clearly messed up.  Tyler was actually okay to me this episode as he was dealing with some real life stuff, and overall I think he does the best he can with it.  I can't remember much but I do remember thinking that it is clear how different Gary's life and house is from Amber's.  They show this perfectly clean and organized farm and farmhouse, and then there is Amber with no real life.  I actually thought Farrah did pretty well with her mom...she got annoyed with her and spoke up but overall is much calmer than she used to be.  I would never want to be around Debra ever.  She is like a baby talking robot of oddness.

[Chickabiddy]

9 hours ago, CofCinci said:

Say what you will about Farrah — no marriages. 

Yeah, but that is only because Farrah is so vile that she hasn't managed to find a man who is either that dumb or that desperate. 

I am going to go out on a limb and say that oversexed harridan is looking at a lifetime of spinsterhood. And the way she is raising her pet gremlin means that no one will ever want to be around Sophia, either, unless there is some kind of monetary incentive involved. Those two are going to be attached at the hip for life

[Scarlett45]

25 minutes ago, Chickabiddy said:

Yeah, but that is only because Farrah is so vile that she hasn't managed to find a man who is either that dumb or that desperate. 

I am going to go out on a limb and say that oversexed harridan is looking at a lifetime of spinsterhood. And the way she is raising her pet gremlin means that no one will ever want to be around Sophia, either, unless there is some kind of monetary incentive involved. Those two are going to be attached at the hip for life

I disagree- not that Farrah isn’t vile (she is), but I think Farrah is self aware and intelligent enough to know that a partnership/marriage like relationship is NOT for her so no use in pretending.  Of all these girls I think Farrah’s the only one who wouldn’t have any kids at all if Sophia hadn’t happened. 

 

The rest of them have white white picket fence fantasies that Farrah never had. 

[CofCinci]

46 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

 

The rest of them have white white picket fence fantasies that Farrah never had. 

One cool point for Farrah. Many of these TMs are fused to the belief that they need a man to feel whole — and keep abusive leeches in their lives. 

[lezlers]

10 hours ago, Soobs said:

Cate and Amber at the VMA's looked like washed up country stars trying to make comebacks. They were so made up and it particularly stood out when they were being interviewed by the young, appropriately made up interviewers on the red carpet. They looked over 40.

Amber saying that Leah "is perfect for her because she always is nice to her and loves her" was beyond fucked up. This leaves no room for Leah to get mad, dislike or be disagreeable with her mother. It's the very definition of conditional love. I hope Dr. Drew calls her out on that...as if.

Felt a little bad for Cate and Tyler. Butch may not be long for this world. Drugs tend to catch up with a person after 50, healthwise and organwise too.

Did walking the runway count as home school hours for Sophia? Give this kid a normal life, please. When they were doing her make up, I noticed how much she looks like Deb.

Next week Mackenzie and Ryan go to their bachelor's party. What's after that? First date? Let's redo high school graduation and Bentley's birth. This milestone redo they keep doing is totally weird.

Yeah, I roll my eyes but I get having a do over wedding if your first one was shotgun or a total shitshow like Ryan and Macs, but a BACHELOR/BACHELORETTE party?  When you're already married?  No.  That ship has sailed.  That's just stupid.

[eskimo]

I think Farrah actually was on a serious hunt for a husband for a long time.  Remember that trip she took with that one guy to see his family and she was so horrible that they didn't even come home together?  There was a scene with them in a paddle boat or something where she was telling him that she was looking to get married and wasn't interested in wasting her time if that wasn't in the future.  It took him (and us) by surprise because they had just barely started seeing each other.  I think she's matured to the point where that is no longer her focus, but there was a time when the only thing that stopped her from jumping into a marriage was her unbearable personality. 

[lezlers]

10 hours ago, mamadrama said:

My father-in-law used to address letters to my husband (you know, his son) as:

Mr. Mamadrama, MA

STOP IT!  Omg.  Okay, he wins the douche award.  He might be a wonderful man, but he wins it for that alone.

Edited January 10, 2018 by lezlers

[Chickabiddy]

12 minutes ago, CofCinci said:

One cool point for Farrah. Many of these TMs are fused to the belief that they need a man to feel whole — and keep abusive leeches in their lives. 

That's because Farrah IS the abusive leech in her circle. It's like assholes. Every group has one. 

Farrah leeches the life force, emotional energy, independence and dignity out of both her parents and her daughter. It;'s too bad that Farrah's parents are too weak willed or obsessed with the "fame" to stand up to her. Sophia is a child and can't really stand up to her. She used to stand up to her mother when her mother would hurt her grandmother. Now she just gleefully joins the pile on because she has learned that it is easier to go along with whatever her mother wants than to face her wrath. 

Does Farrah have any friends or relationships with anyone who is not related to her or connected to her in a professional context? It is really easy to say that you are not interested in a relationship when no one else shows even the slightest interest in you. It's along the lines of "No one asked me to the prom, but I didn't want to go anyway." It maybe true that you didn't want to go, but it would be more convincing if you had the chance to turn down at least one invite. ;-) 

Edited January 10, 2018 by Chickabiddy

[lezlers]

8 hours ago, Blissfool said:

My heart breaks when seeing Tyler's relationship with Butch. I have a family member who is very much like Butch...cocaine; in and out of jail. He can go a few months clean, get a job, seem to be thriving, but then the urge will hit him and he will cave, bringing hurt to those of us that love and care for him. It happens just like it happened on the show. I will call him for whatever reason, no answer. I'll make myself think "he must be busy at work." Deep down i know the truth, but I refuse to face it until it is confirmed...which usually happens when hours become days and sometimes even weeks of no contact. There have been times that he really didnt answer because he WAS busy at work, and it's like a huge sigh of relief, yet the fear lingers within me because I realize it's a disappointment that WILL  be realized, just not THAT day.

When the producer asked Tyler, "Why do you really think he didn't answer?" Tyler answered, "cuz he's working." I so related ...thats what we really really hope...that he's working.

I agree.  As infuriating as Tyler could be, I just saw him as a wounded child in those scenes.  Say what you will about them, Tyler and Cate got a really raw deal growing up and clung to one another to cope.  Despite their horrible childhood, they still crave the bond with their families and it's really, really sad to watch them get disappointed over and over again, even as adults.  Being a child of a drug addict is something I wouldn't wish on my enemy.

[MaggieG]

I see that C and T have taken a page out of Maci's book and are now wearing their Tierra Reign shirts in every scene.

Debra, EMBA is a nutcase. When Farrah was facetiming with Michael and Amy, they showed Sophia sitting with Debra. Debra was focused on her phone and Sophia was getting ignored.  I actually feel really bad for Sophia. She will never have a normal childhood.

[Jax7917]

The biggest hum dinger of the episode is why Tyler didn't want to go to the VMA's with Cate?.. "it's not my thing."... okaaaaaaay Tyler. He might even beat out Javi with being a fame whore. I wonder what the objective was there.

[ReadMeLattice]

17 minutes ago, Chickabiddy said:

That's because Farrah IS the abusive leech in her circle. It's like assholes. Every group has one. 

Farrah leeches the life force, emotional energy, independence and dignity out of both her parents and her daughter. It;'s too bad that Farrah's parents are too weak willed or obsessed with the "fame" to stand up to her. Sophia is a child and can't really stand up to her. She used to stand up to her mother when her mother would hurt her grandmother. Now she just gleefully joins the pile on because she has learned that it is easier to go along with whatever her mother wants than to face her wrath. 

Does Farrah have any friends or relationships with anyone who is not related to her or connected to her in a professional context? It is really easy to say that you are not interested in a relationship when no one else shows even the slightest interest in you. It's along the lines of "No one asked me to the prom, but I didn't want to go anyway." It maybe true that you didn't want to go, but it would be more convincing if you had the chance to turn down at least one invite. ;-) 

Really? I honestly can't see Debra as anything but extremely emotionally abusive, certainly not only to Farrah. I know there was cheating on both sides in her and Michael's marriage, but I have to imagine that she absolutely sucked the life out of him. I definitely feel that Farrah has become much like her mother. And I have to think that inviting someone who attacked her daughter physically on camera to her wedding is 'standing up' to her...certainly doesn't seem afraid of her. She screamed that she was suicidal at a nail salon in front of her granddaughter. I don't think that's because she's being mistreated by Farrah; the woman is just plumb crazy.

Maybe I just see it differently because I watched them on that ridiculous family 'therapy' show. Debra is every bit as manipulative, angry and aggressive as Farrah, if not more. She learned from the best. There's no question that Farrah is vile as well and is on track to being just like her toxic mom, but I have to say that Debra makes my stomach turn. And I don't get where she took away her parents' independence. Debra is marrying a disgusting leech who clearly wants to screw her daughter and treats her horribly, started a variety of businesses on her own and with Farrah, and *is trying to have a rap career.* 

I'm interested to see what other folks think, but honestly when I watch the two of them, I don't see Farrah as perpetrator and Deb as innocent victim of her abuse. I see Toxic 1 and Toxic 2.

Edited January 10, 2018 by Lm2162

[Chickabiddy]

1 minute ago, Lm2162 said:

Really? I honestly can't see Debra as anything but extremely emotionally abusive, certainly not only to Farrah. I know there was cheating on both sides in her and Michael's marriage, but I have to imagine that she absolutely sucked the life out of him. I definitely feel that Farrah has become much like her mother. And I have to think that inviting someone who attacked her daughter physically on camera to her wedding is 'standing up' to her...certainly doesn't seem afraid of her. She screamed that she was suicidal at a nail salon in front of her granddaughter. I don't think that's because she's being mistreated by Farrah; the woman is just plumb crazy.

Maybe I just see it differently because I watched them on that ridiculous family 'therapy' show. Debra is every bit as manipulative, angry and aggressive as Farrah, if not more. She learned from the best. There's no question that Farrah is vile as well and is on track to being just like her toxic mom, but I have to say that Debra makes my stomach turn.

I don't disagree with any of this, and I certainly have no sympathy for either of her parents. We reap what we sow.. However, the difference between Farrah and Debra now is the power imbalance of fame and money that Farrah has over her parents, and control of a grandchild they both love. And instead of using  her  financial independence to distance herself from her family or set some healthy boundaries, she uses it to grind her ax of revenge over and over again, exposing her daughter to vile verbal attacks, and forever damaging Sophia's relationship with her grandmother. If I recall, Sophia used to have a decent relationship with Debra. It also seems that Farrah wants to have complete control over Sophia. She has turned her against her grandmother and pulled her out of school. Sophia has no other stable personal relationships with anyone but her mother. We all fault Amber for talking about how Leah meet her every emotional need. Farrah may not talk about it like that, but her action show her isolating Sophia to be her constant companion and toady. 

[ReadMeLattice]

12 minutes ago, Chickabiddy said:

I don't disagree with any of this, and I certainly have no sympathy for either of her parents. We reap what we sow.. However, the difference between Farrah and Debra now is the power imbalance of fame and money that Farrah has over her parents, and control of a grandchild they both love. And instead of using  her  financial independence to distance herself from her family or set some healthy boundaries, she uses it to grind her ax of revenge over and over again, exposing her daughter to vile verbal attacks, and forever damaging Sophia's relationship with her grandmother. If I recall, Sophia used to have a decent relationship with Debra. It also seems that Farrah wants to have complete control over Sophia. She has turned her against her grandmother and pulled her out of school. Sophia has no other stable personal relationships with anyone but her mother. We all fault Amber for talking about how Leah meet her every emotional need. Farrah may not talk about it like that, but her action show her isolating Sophia to be her constant companion and toady. 

I don't necessarily disagree with this either, but her parents (especially Debra) could also stop using Farrah for fame and money if they wanted to get out of the drama; Debra uses Farrah for her own gain, including money, airtime, and public shaming/revenge, as much as Farrah does. So I can't fault Farrah any more than I do Deb for continuing the toxic codependence they've got going on. They are both adults and both getting something out of it.

I don't doubt that Sophia had a good relationship with her grandmother when she was a toddler, which isn't hard, but it could just as easily be that her grandmother is just as hard and dramatic to be around as her mom (she doesn't seem to respect her mom either) and she's old enough to figure that out now. Both her mom and grandma throw temper tantrums (in fact, we've seen them do it while she's there), and Sophia's witnessed that, along with the drama with David. Eventually she is going to act out to get attention herself or stop respecting them because they don't respect each other or anyone. Sophia is what, 8? She's old enough to see what's what to some extent. She sees how her mom and grandmother treat people who work for them, waiters, each other, their boyfriends, Michael. That's 'appropriate' behavior to her. 

TL;DR I see it as mutually toxic/mutual 'using' of one another. 

Edited January 10, 2018 by Lm2162

[MissMel]

To be fair, I also think we've seen Farrah at least attempt to be better.  Especially when she distances herself from her mother.  I also realize that could be difficult to do long term.  Deb just insists she's never, ever done anything wrong and cannot imagine why anyone else could think she possibly has.  She's a real nut and I have no hope for her.  Farrah still has a little more room for growth, if she chooses to do so.  Even just a little bit is better than none.  I'd be really impressed for her to see the way she is with Sophia is similar to the way her mother was with her and try to pull back from that a little bit.  She can start by putting a stop with the baby talk to and from Sophia and put her foot down for her mother to completely stop it as well.  That would open the door for many other positive improvements.  

[Snarky McSnarky]

I would be more impressed with Maci and Taylor if they needed to rent storage space for inventory.  Renting a closet-sized office in a full service suite for a mail order business seems unnecessary, even if their suite mates are "smart people."

I don't get the point of Farrah and Sophia walking that runway.  Were they modeling their own outfits or some designer's clothes (who would hire them?)? Or was it just some pay-to-play offshoot of NY Fashion Week?  They never said WHY they were doing it.

[TheRealT]

1 hour ago, eskimo said:

I think Farrah actually was on a serious hunt for a husband for a long time.  Remember that trip she took with that one guy to see his family and she was so horrible that they didn't even come home together?  There was a scene with them in a paddle boat or something where she was telling him that she was looking to get married and wasn't interested in wasting her time if that wasn't in the future.  It took him (and us) by surprise because they had just barely started seeing each other.  I think she's matured to the point where that is no longer her focus, but there was a time when the only thing that stopped her from jumping into a marriage was her unbearable personality. 

l actually think Farrah has grown a lot since that time. I think she was (and is) a very lonely person and, back then, she was trying to find "normalcy" and emotional support through a relationship/marriage. Unlike a lot of the TM girls, she seems to have learned that being with a guy, any guy, isn't really the way to go. I think therapy has helped her a lot, as well as having things going on in her life besides her daughter and latest soul mate (unlike a lot of the TM girls). Even back then, she was smart enough not to get knocked up by every guy she went on more than 2 dates with in hopes of getting him to commit, so she deserves credit for that.

44 minutes ago, Lm2162 said:

I don't necessarily disagree with this either, but her parents (especially Debra) could also stop using Farrah for fame and money if they wanted to get out of the drama; Debra uses Farrah for her own gain, including money, airtime, and public shaming/revenge, as much as Farrah does. So I can't fault Farrah any more than I do Deb for continuing the toxic codependence they've got going on. They are both getting something out of it.

I think Debra is Bat. Shit. Crazy. Even in the bizarro Abraham-Danielson family, she has always stood out as Queen Loonytoons. I actually enjoy her somewhat as a TV character because she's so. fucking. crazy. But she's not crazy in a good way. She's extremely toxic and twisted. I actually think Farrah deals with her pretty well, or as best as she can under the circumstances. Farrah is often extremely rude to Debs, but she has to set really clear, really firm boundaries with Deb just to get through basic social interactions and Farrah doesn't have the skills to do that without being rude and inappropriate herself. Obviously, Farrah has a boatload of her own issues and she often acts out angrily toward her mom, sometimes at moments when it seems unwarranted. It's not healthy, but I think it's healthier than letting Deb spread her toxicity unchecked.

And I cut Farrah a lot of slack for surviving being raised by Deb (and Michael), which I'm sure was no picnic. As fucked up as she is, I think Farrah is actually doing pretty well just generally/as a human being considering her family and background. She may be a rare example of someone who was really helped by the show. It gave her the opportunity become independent from her parents sooner than she probably would have and start building a life on her own terms. Without the show, she probably would have been dependent on/caught up in the mind fuckery of her parents for several more years or maybe ended up married to the first guy she could get to save her from them. When Farrah first left home, Deb manipulated her into leaving Sophia there, a situation which might have become permanent if Farrah hadn't had the money that she got directly and indirectly from MTV.

[eskimo]

It's a toss up for me when it comes to who's worse, Farrah or Deb.  They express their crazy in different ways.  But when I think about actually spending time with either one of them, I'd much rather hang with Farrah.  I can deal with outright bitch much better than passive agressive Debz 'I don't understand what's wrong here', playing stupid bullshit.  I'd throw a ceramic mug at her head in no time.  Can. Not. Stand. That. Shit.  Never mind, it's not a toss-up.  Deb gets my vote for most irritating. 

[ReadMeLattice]

8 minutes ago, TheRealT said:

l

I think Debra is Bat. Shit. Crazy. Even in the bizarro Abraham-Danielson family, she has always stood out as Queen Loonytoons. I actually enjoy her somewhat as a TV character because she's so. fucking. crazy. But she's not crazy in a good way. She's extremely toxic and twisted. I actually think Farrah deals with her pretty well, or as best as she can under the circumstances. Farrah is often extremely rude to Debs, but she has to set really clear, really firm boundaries with Deb just to get through basic social interactions and Farrah doesn't have the skills to do that without being rude and inappropriate herself. Obviously, Farrah has a boatload of her own issues and she often acts out angrily toward her mom, sometimes at moments when it seems unwarranted. It's not healthy, but I think it's healthier than letting Deb spread her toxicity unchecked.

 

Yeah, as weird and potentially disturbing/limiting as it would be to be raised by Farrah, I can't imagine how suffocating and scary it must have been to be raised by Hyperevangelical Debra. Remember how she forced Farrah not to get an abortion and slapped her on camera because Jesus? And now she has a rap career as Debz OG? But also screams that she's going to kill herself during pedicures? That is not just an eccentric person, that is a scary-ass lady. She's like a mix of one of the Real Housewives and the mom from Carrie.

Edited January 10, 2018 by Lm2162