Figure Skating

[aemom]

Backloading is not the worst thing, but they should set limits on how many jumps you can backload in a program. 

I'm also tired of watching people splat all over the place trying quads and scoring higher than a clean triple. That makes no sense. I would much rather watch a beautifully skated program with clean triples than quad-splats all over the ice. I would change the points so that a quad with a fall is worth 0.1 less than a clean triple. You can still go for it, but if you're losing it in the air, then you can take the clean triple for about the same points and keep the flow of your program. Same for triple/double, etc.

All these spins grabbing the blade: It's becoming tiresome to watch.  The forward Bielmann is just not attractive. Make other difficult spins worth points too.

[Growsonwalls]

Hmm Evan Lysacek was the grandfather of the backloading:

[displayname]

6 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

Hmm Evan Lysacek was the grandfather of the backloading:

How?

[Growsonwalls]

2 minutes ago, fan94 said:

How?

There was a lot of talk at that time of how many jumps he did past the bonus mark. At that time it was a big deal when his biggest rival was Plushenko who was the master of the frontloading.

[Chaser]

Personally, I don't put that anywhere in the ball park to what the Russian woman are doing. He had three jumping passes, a step sequence, a combination spin before that half point. I thought it was pretty well laid out program 

[displayname]

7 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

There was a lot of talk at that time of how many jumps he did past the bonus mark. At that time it was a big deal when his biggest rival was Plushenko who was the master of the frontloading.

I don't see how this is true, though. Consider the ladies who were participating at the same time -- they also did several jumps in the second half. Or rather, they made sure they had balanced programs.

 

Or even the other men. Daisuke Takahashi.

 

More like Plushenko is the anti-grandfather of backloading.

Edited February 22, 2018 by fan94

[Mellowyellow]

It's nice to see a gold medal performance that didn't go kersplat!

I dunno, splatting just ruins things for me! I feel like if you get the gold, you should not have fallen at all. I get the stuff about quads and harder programs etc but it feels weird when they still get gold after falling a twice! 

Edited February 22, 2018 by Mellowyellow

[Chaser]

I rewatched Plushenko's. I remember it being bad, but it's really worse. 

[Libby96]

6 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I rewatched Plushenko's. I remember it being bad, but it's really worse. 

I recently rewatched Slutskaya's LP from Salt Lake.  What a sloppy mess for a silver medal winning performance.  It was so much worse then I remembered.  But I was already traumatized by Kwan's mistake that night.

[Mellowyellow]

OMG I went to look it up and I had to force myself to finish it! I was complaining to hubby about the lack of performance this year in the men's (did love Hanyu's SP though) but that was HIDEOUS!!!!!!! Aiiii why so terrible! 

I prefer Nathan and his bazillion jumps to whatever Plushenko was doing in the step sequence during the last minute! So no judging conspiracy that year? The gold medal winner was much better! 

I felt so bad for Kwan in Salt Lake although Sarah Hughes did a brilliant job.

Imagine being the favourite and not quite meeting Tara four years earlier when she had her best shot and then stuffing up four years after that. 

Was she very technically sound normally?

[MaKaM]

2 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Was she very technically sound normally?

Michelle? God, yes. She didn't have a consistent 3-3 combo (not very many did, as I recall) but you usually never ever worried about her landing her jumps. Solid like a rock. Michelle <3 <3 <3  My favorite program (bonus: Terry + Dick!) Not sure how to insert a video, but Tosca, 2004 Nationals

[RolloTomasi]

I’ve been following this thread but had to jump in with the talk of 2010. Aah, 2010. While there was no judging conspiracy in the men’s what followed was the most hilarious display of poor sportsmanship I have ever seen, with Plushenko essentially questioning Evan’s manhood by not doing a quad and awarding himself a platinum medal. I think he (or maybe it was the Russian Skating Federation or whatever) wanted to protest the results and launch an investigation. Everyone else basically ignored this nonsense  

 

What’s funnier is that if you look at the programs now, side by side, and ask any random person on the street which one was the gold medal winning routine, absolutely nobody would pick Plushy. Even with the (shaky) quad, he was nowhere near Evan that night. 

[Growsonwalls]

I just found this delightful interview with Aliona Savchenko and Bruno Massot back when they couldn't even compete. You can see why this partnership worked so well. Bruno is goofy and seems to relax Aliona. I know Aliona is married and Bruno has a gf but they have a nice playful chemistry. They just seem to click in every way.

[Jaded]

33 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

I dunno, splatting just ruins things for me! I feel like if you get the gold, you should not have fallen at all. I get the stuff about quads and harder programs etc but it feels weird when they still get gold after falling a twice! 

That's why I like DVR'ing so much now because I can FF'd through skaters when they splat more then once. Spatting so many times just takes me out of watching and makes things less entertaining. Just because quads can be done by some doesn't mean they should done so many times. I hate watching skating seeing so many skaters fall more because some are going out of their way to do jumps that their bodies aren't necessarily equipped to do. The thought of the guys doing so many quads during each program and the wear it takes on their bodies as they get older makes me sad. That skaters like Tara (even though she's annoying at times) had to retire due to hip issues going back to jumps she did.  The last part of my post probably sounds crazy to most people I know. 

[greendog78]

19 minutes ago, RolloTomasi said:

What’s funnier is that if you look at the programs now, side by side, and ask any random person on the street which one was the gold medal winning routine, absolutely nobody would pick Plushy. Even with the (shaky) quad, he was nowhere near Evan that night. 

I agree. I had to go back and watch the FS. Plushy's sexy step sequence was... I don't even know. His routine was still more balanced that the Not!Russian ladies, although it's just jumps with a bit of arm waving in between. It's weird, judging by the YT comments, that the cult of Johnny Weir still thinks he should have gotten bronze. His routines wouldn't even make it to the Olympics now.

[displayname]

22 hours ago, PoshSprinkles said:

I can't wait for Koola King to rip this event apart, lol. 

 

 

:D

 

She did it somehow! XD

Edited February 22, 2018 by fan94

[MaKaM]

10 minutes ago, Jaded said:

 The thought of the guys doing so many quads during each program and the wear it takes on their bodies as they get older makes me sad. That skaters like Tara (even though she's annoying at times) had to retire due to hip issues going back to jumps she did.  The last part of my post probably sounds crazy to most people I know. 

Didn't Tara have pretty stank technique from roller skating though? It is hard on your hips when you are cheating jumps or mule kicking to muscle your jumps around. If you are using good speed and proper technique to launch and get fully rotated before landing and shock absorbing with your knees, you really shouldn't be putting that much stress on your hips or other joints.  Now falling...that's why I never figure skated. I cry just thinking about taking those falls.

[Enero]

54 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Was she very technically sound normally?

She was technically sound in that she did just enough, the basics to win, which worked very well for her due to her consistency. However, she didn’t push the sport technically. When Slutskaya and even Cohen were on they could and did beat her, but neither had consistency in their arsenal. 

Its a shame that Tara blew out her hip over training her 3loop/3loop because she was the only one in the era of Kwan that could match her consistency. She had the technical difficulty (that was greater than Kwan) and was rewarded for having strong artistry. If she’d been able to remain an amateur a few more years and further evolve as a skater I believe she would’ve given Kwan a run for her money and potentially helped pushed the sport technically.

Edited February 22, 2018 by Enero

[Chaser]

I was always bummed Tara went pro so early. Physically she may have had no choice but some of her later stuff really showed growth. Her Dreamcatcher number in particular. I also enjoyed Second Element and Paint it Black. 

[Souris]

4 hours ago, HartofDixie said:

Nathan’s exhibition at 2010 Nationals

 

Ah! I was there for that! The audience was so charmed.

[Growsonwalls]

Tara Lipinski also had the skating mom to end all Over Involved Skating Parents. She admittedly had a very rough time after the Olympics -- she hadn't actually seen her dad in a very long time (I think her mom moved her around the country while dad paid the bills in Texas), and rumor has it that she didn't get along with the SOI cast. I'm sure Mom's constant presence didn't help her adjustment into adulthood. She drifted for a long time -- she tried acting for awhile, then finally found her groove as a commentator. She annoys me sometimes but I am happy that she seems to be in a better place.

[redpencil]

Quote

I don't think this means Nathan's parents aren't nice people. I'm sure they are. I think what this shows is immaturity/inexperience on Nathan's part that he thought honoring his parents meant skating a program he couldn't skate because of his injury. 

Maybe this is me not totally understanding skating (entirely possible!), but I'm kind of confused about this whole thing. Not communicating or choosing to follow a family's advice over the coach's advice is one thing, and I understand a coach not being happy about that. But I'm not sure I get why it was such a horrible plan to begin with, yet attempting 6 quads in the free skate (including the same jumps he didn't want him to do in the short) was fine. In that interview Raf seemed to blame the issues in the SP entirely on the decision to do those jumps, because it was too hard in a SP and Nathan had recently had some sort of foot/leg issue. Yet he seemed perfectly fine with attempting the 6 quads in the LP (including the same jumps he attempted in the SP). In fact, he comes across as really proud of the free skate, and describes it as the culmination of what they had been working toward, essentially. So it was too much in the SP but not too much the very next day when he landed those same jumps (plus a gazillion more!) beautifully. And the one he didn't land cleanly was one that Raf wanted him to do in the SP. Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems to be placing way too much blame on the jump layout. /shrug

 

Quote

Back to that interview with Nathan's coach.  I think he really threw Nathan under the bus in a public forum!  I would expect my coach to keep the "issues" behind closed doors.  Why would Nathan want to keep him as a coach with public criticism and "airing of grievances" ( tm Seinfield) like that????

Yeah. I feel bad that it's going to make some people think Nathan is some kind of diva and/or that he has the stage parents from hell. When I'm sure neither are close to being true. I'm sure there's some truth to what Raf is saying, but I also think there's probably more to the story--Raf has a vested interest in presenting himself as completely innocent in the SP disaster, after all.

Anyway, I don't like coaching drama. Just makes almost everyone come across badly, warranted or not. I just want to get to the skating and rooting on the skaters I'm invested in.

[caracas1914]

Tara’s vaunted 3 loop/3loop was so cheated...

I never thought once Tara won the O Gold (ahead of schedule) that her  camp had any intention for her to continue competitive skating.

Who could blame them?  She had won nationals, worlds and Olympics  and that double axel of hers wasn’t going to last much longer. If I recall she only waited a month and half after winning the Olympics to turn professional, so it’s not as if had any serious consideration to remain eligible was taken.

[DawnDavenport]

23 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

Tara Lipinski also had the skating mom to end all Over Involved Skating Parents. She admittedly had a very rough time after the Olympics -- she hadn't actually seen her dad in a very long time (I think her mom moved her around the country while dad paid the bills in Texas), and rumor has it that she didn't get along with the SOI cast. I'm sure Mom's constant presence didn't help her adjustment into adulthood. She drifted for a long time -- she tried acting for awhile, then finally found her groove as a commentator. She annoys me sometimes but I am happy that she seems to be in a better place.

Tara's mom was/is a beast! I remember her complaining in an interview (during Worlds?) when the Team USA athletes voted for Kwan to present President Clinton with a team jacket after Nagano. Her mom was rabid in complaining about how disrespectful it was that Tara didn't get to do it because she won the gold, not Kwan.

Wasn't Debi Thomas' mom a bit of a stage mom as well? Thank goodness Tara didn't end up living in a bed bug infested trailer rural VA.

Edited February 22, 2018 by DawnDavenport

[Growsonwalls]

5 minutes ago, DawnDavenport said:

Tara's mom was/is a beast! I remember her complaining in an interview (during Worlds?) when the Team USA athletes voted for Kwan to present President Clinton with a team jacket after Nagano. Her mom was rabid in complaining about how disrespectful it was that Tara didn't get to do it because she won the gold, not Kwan.

There was this article from 1994 about the financial burdens Tara's skating put on the Lipinskis, who were more well-off than the average skating parent:

http://www.nytimes.com/1994/10/11/sports/figure-skating-prodigy-s-dream-has-a-price.html?pagewanted=all

Funny how the issues haven't changed. Parents overly invested because they've given up everything. Kids too talented for them to ever think that it could all end badly. I feel like you could probably insert Nathan Chen/Mirai Nagasu/anyone skating today and have the same story.

[Chaser]

I read that the problems with the SOI cast and Tara was the age difference. She felt isolated from the cast. 

Generally I felt bad from her. She had the family situation. She got her Olympic dream but had to hear how she robbed the real champion of the Gold. A well known Figure Skating writer even writes a book about the Olympics that essentially paints her the villain. And after she turns Pro, she gets criticized there. 

Seems like a lot for a 15 year old.

[DawnDavenport]

Just now, Chaser said:

I read that the problems with the SOI cast and Tara was the age difference. She felt isolated from the cast. 

Generally I felt bad from her. She had the family situation. She got her Olympic dream but had to hear how she robbed the real champion of the Gold. A well known Figure Skating writer even writes a book about the Olympics that essentially paints her the villain. And after she turns Pro, she gets criticized there. 

Seems like a lot for a 15 year old.

I agree. I didn't like her skating at all and was kinda pissed she won but what she endured at such a young age was kinda brutal. I'm glad she seems well adjusted and avoided controversy afterwards: no Drunksana Baiul, Nicole Bobek shenanigans (god those were the days, weren't they?)

[Growsonwalls]

9 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I read that the problems with the SOI cast and Tara was the age difference. She felt isolated from the cast. 

Generally I felt bad from her. She had the family situation. She got her Olympic dream but had to hear how she robbed the real champion of the Gold. A well known Figure Skating writer even writes a book about the Olympics that essentially paints her the villain. And after she turns Pro, she gets criticized there. 

Seems like a lot for a 15 year old.

Also ... the V/M fanfic writers or Yuna-bots paled in comparison to the terrifying devotion of the Kween-iacs. I remember some figure skating boards had to ban the topic of Tara Lipinski altogether because the convos got so ugly and inappropriate. Thankfully Michelle Kwan was a classy person and stayed above the fray but the Kweeniacs were brutal towards any of her rivals. Tara, Irina, Sarah Hughes, Sasha, anyone. 

Christine Brennan's book was awful. I never liked her after that book. She was a Michelle Kwan fan -- fine, but she marketed her book as a general insider skating book, and it ended up being basically a take-down of anyone who wasn't Michelle Kwan. Ah, those were the days.

I almost feel like it's better now in the days of social media. More athletes get to "control the message" so to speak by praising or congratulating their rivals and it's more comforting to know that, say, Steph Curry and Lebron James don't want to kill each other.

Edited February 22, 2018 by Growsonwalls

[sab85]

I agree on Tara, I was never that much a fan of hers but I am happy she seems to be doing well.

As for Costner I wonder if it is partially Italy's doing. In gymnastics Romania has pulled Catalina Ponor out of retirement twice cause she's the only chance they have. 

[SeanC]

Returning to the issue of the race for bronze, because I enjoy the numbers game:

Margin between Osmond and Miyahara:  2.93

Margin between Miyahara and Sakamoto:  2.76

Margin between Sakamoto and Kostner:  0.03

Thus the lowest contender, Kostner, is 5.72 points off the bronze medal position.

Given that all of these ladies have a personal FS best in a roughly similar range, barring some sudden dramatic increase, each person further down needs more people above them to falter.  E.g., Miyahara just needs Osmond to have a bad day; Sakamoto needs Osmond and Miyahara to have things go badly, and considering the fractional difference between her and Kostner, she too (and vice versa).  Osmond needs to, well, skate well; the people below her underperforming gives her more of a cushion, conversely.

[caracas1914]

1 hour ago, redpencil said:

Maybe this is me not totally understanding skating (entirely possible!), but I'm kind of confused about this whole thing. Not communicating or choosing to follow a family's advice over the coach's advice is one thing, and I understand a coach not being happy about that. But I'm not sure I get why it was such a horrible plan to begin with, yet attempting 6 quads in the free skate (including the same jumps he didn't want him to do in the short) was fine. In that interview Raf seemed to blame the issues in the SP entirely on the decision to do those jumps, because it was too hard in a SP and Nathan had recently had some sort of foot/leg issue. Yet he seemed perfectly fine with attempting the 6 quads in the LP (including the same jumps he attempted in the SP). In fact, he comes across as really proud of the free skate, and describes it as the culmination of what they had been working toward, essentially. So it was too much in the SP but not too much the very next day when he landed those same jumps (plus a gazillion more!) beautifully. And the one he didn't land cleanly was one that Raf wanted him to do in the SP. Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems to be placing way too much blame on the jump layout. /shrug

 

Yeah. I feel bad that it's going to make some people think Nathan is some kind of diva and/or that he has the stage parents from hell. When I'm sure neither are close to being true. I'm sure there's some truth to what Raf is saying, but I also think there's probably more to the story--Raf has a vested interest in presenting himself as completely innocent in the SP disaster, after all.

Anyway, I don't like coaching drama. Just makes almost everyone come across badly, warranted or not. I just want to get to the skating and rooting on the skaters I'm invested in.

 

I think Raf was adhering to that competitive axiom:  “you can’t win the competition in the SP but you can certainly lose it”.   The 3 rules of the SP is  skate clean, skate clean, skate clean.   Don’t fuck it up before the LP.  I got the impression that per Raf’s POV Nathan tried a SP jump content that he wasn’t physically prepared nor coached for and essentially wrote himself out of medal contention.

It was a decision that he didn’t agree with because it seemed on the fly.

Ironically The only thing somewhat similar (but not really ) was at the 1992 Albertville Olympics when it seemed the Olympic pressure got to Midori Ito and at the last moment, (day of?)  she subbed a 3 lutz versus her planned 3 axel in the SP and still fell.  In hindsight the commentators said that the muscle memory wasn’t there for that switch, (though I seemed to recall Scotty pontificating during the warmup what a “smart call” that was by Camp Ito).  It just seems crazy to switch your jumps the day of the competition.  Because again, the mantra of SP is skate clean.

AS to the LP, what did it matter at that point?  Essentially the competition was lost so throwing everything but the kitchen sink ther was no pressure and I’m sure a 6quad LP was to everyone’s glory, including Raf, LOL.

I’m not certainl Raf is completely accurate (who really knows?) but if what he said about the Chen camp overruling the coach on jump content is true, that is some bat shit crazy stuff nevertheless.  Even indirectly, what  the fuck do any of the parents have to do with jump content?

Edited February 22, 2018 by caracas1914

[Minneapple]

1 hour ago, Growsonwalls said:

She drifted for a long time -- she tried acting for awhile, then finally found her groove as a commentator. 

I remember watching some movie on Lifetime or something and there was Tara Lipinski, "acting" as a skater. Dear Lord she was horrible.

The "turning pro" comments are amusing. Nowadays everyone is a pro and has multiple endorsements -- the Shibs have their Minute Maid endorsement, Ashley Wagner is sponsored by Toyota (and Wagner's sponsors stayed with her even though she didn't make the Olympic team), in other sports Chloe Kim has Target, Lindsey Vonn has a bunch of sponsors. In a way it's a good thing the Olympics ended the amateur stuff. Staying amateur put an even bigger financial burden on families. and it's silly. Countries like Russia and China put their athletes in year-round training programs and they are basically amateurs in name only. The Russian hockey team that was beaten in the Miracle on Ice game was probably the best hockey team ever assembled but they were "amateurs." 

[displayname]

32 minutes ago, caracas1914 said:

I think Raf was adhering to that competitive axiom:  “you can’t win the competition in the SP but you can certainly lose it”.   The 3 rules of the SP is  skate clean, skate clean, skate clean.   Don’t fuck it up before the LP.  I got the impression that per Raf’s POV Nathan tried a SP jump content that he wasn’t physically prepared nor coached for and essentially wrote himself out of medal contention.

It was a decision that he didn’t agree with because it seemed on the fly.

 

Yes. Also, muscle memory.

[Mellowyellow]

Do they stand to make a tonne of $$$ if they get the gold? I remember reading an article (an aussie article mind you and we're not that big on figure skating) about how Sasha Cohen could have had EVERYTHING had she not botched up her freeskate. It seemed very dramatic!

Is silver not good enough for endorsements?

[MaKaM]

11 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Do they stand to make a tonne of $$$ if they get the gold? I remember reading an article (an aussie article mind you and we're not that big on figure skating) about how Sasha Cohen could have had EVERYTHING had she not botched up her freeskate. It seemed very dramatic!

Is silver not good enough for endorsements?

If you are cute and personable, silver might be enough like Kwan (or no medal in the case of Adam Rippon) but US sponsors love their Peggy's and Mary Lou's and they don't seem to want two IT girls at the same time. Move over Gabby Douglas, we got ourselves a Simone Biles. Etc. 

[redpencil]

I totally get the axiom about losing it in the SP as well as the muscle memory issue. It just seems a little weird to me in this case since Nathan has changed jumps around in at least long programs going back to the 16-17 season (granted, probably not on the day of a competition). Also, the first jumping pass that he botched (which was supposed to be a combo) was the one he'd been doing all season until Nationals, where they changed the jumps since he'd been sick. Obviously the 3A was also the same, but not sure about the other jump. If he hadn't really trained it that way at all, yeah, that would seem ill-advised. But I would think the plan after Nationals would have been to go back to the harder jump content that he'd been doing all season. Perhaps it just got derailed by whatever injury he had.

In any case, Raf spilling all of this stuff (regardless of how much truth is there or how much of the story is missing) seems unprofessional to me, especially in the way he did it. I'm sure there's a lot of blame to go around (jump content, nerves/pressure, mental preparation, physical errors, just a bad day, whatever), but he's placing 100% of it on the jump layout.

I also wouldn't be surprised if parents/family getting overly involved in actual skating decisions is more common than you'd expect among young skaters.

Anyway, like I said before, I hate this kind of drama (and the rumor/speculation that goes along with it). I'm just going to forget all about it and remember just that LP (and hope for a great Worlds).

[Jaded]

[displayname]

1 minute ago, Jaded said:

http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/alina-zagitova-hits-5-triple-jump-combination-practice?chrcontext=newsfeed

 

And Eteri still looks like she hates her!

[caracas1914]

38 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Do they stand to make a tonne of $$$ if they get the gold? I remember reading an article (an aussie article mind you and we're not that big on figure skating) about how Sasha Cohen could have had EVERYTHING had she not botched up her freeskate. It seemed very dramatic!

Is silver not good enough for endorsements?

I think with social media and all the other sports where women have a higher public  profile  it's not as cut and dried anymore as  when with Peggy Fleming and Dorthy Hammil  won, they were THE endorsement queens and the face of female sports.  Sadly, figure skating doesn't have the same pull with the public IMO that it used to have back in the 60's thru 90's.  You have tennis, gymnastics, skiing, snowboarders, swimmers, soccer, boxers, etc, etc etc.   You have social media, twitter, to add to the mix.

Now Yuna Kim is HUGE in South Korea, really the female Michael Jordan there and I also read that Mao Asada made a very nice living in Japan without winning Gold.

For all of Tara's current high media visibility, she didn't really have much endorsement longevity when she won in 98, I read Michelle Kwan still pulled in  more endorsement $$ the next few years then Tara.    And does anyone even hear much about Sarah Hughes these days?   

Sasha Cohen was an interesting one because the media /skating world kept on wanting to anoit her the next skating queen, but she kept on inconveniently splatting.  However I think it's fair to say that IF she would have won Turin she might have been able to snag some major endorsements, because she had the "look" that everyone gushed made an ice princess.  Dick Button and Peggy Fleming loved her to pieces, but for the life of me I cannot recall a single clean competition (SP and LP) that Sasha ever had.  She even sort of crumbled to "just" win the silver, when she was leading up to that point at the Olympics so I don't think it was the breakthrough it could have been, endorsement wise.

I do think it's fantastic that multiple bad ass women in different sports can all  now share the pie. 

Go Chhole Kim!!

[Bama]

I got dizzy just watching that triple combo!

Can she do something like that in competition or is that against the rules?

[displayname]

11 minutes ago, Bama said:

Can she do something like that in competition or is that against the rules?

Against the rules.

[EllenB]

The overused music reminds me of a P.G. Wodehouse story in which the dimwit main character Wooster is convinced he has a great singing voice, and enters a singing contest.  His butler/valet Jeeves puts a stop to it by bribing all the other contestants to sing the same song.  By the time Wooster appears, the audience is seething and as soon as he starts singing, he is pelted with produce.

 

Not saying this should be done, but it's so tempting!

[EllenB]

Oh, and on the coach's comments on Adam and Ashley's bodies: neither of them have traditional skaters' builds.  Adam admits he has a large butt and what my hubby's family calls Thunder Thighs (when our son was born, he looked like a tiny speed skater with a normal body and huge, muscular thighs).  Ashley has a long torso and shortish legs, which might be a factor in her jumping inconsistency since she can make the same movements as another skater but her body might not move in the same way, and her center of balance could be off by a few inches.  I imagine it would take more concentration and a tighter, faster rotation to counteract that.

[Peace 47]

8 hours ago, Moxie Cat said:

(And if Raf really is perpetuating eating disorders with his skaters, I take it all back. I just didn't get that from the interview.)

He was quoted as making some concerning statements in the New York Times article that came out a week or so ago about Adam Rippon’s issues with disordered eating.  

Quote

 

Arutyunyan said he had since learned to address his skaters’ weight with a new vocabulary, in his nonnative English, and realized that he could not be as blunt as when he worked in the Soviet system and thought nothing of calling an athlete “fat.” In the United States, he said, he has attended seminars that drove home the point that “it’s kind of abusive or maybe they can get sick.”

So now Arutyunyan will tell his skaters that they look sluggish or that they need to be in better shape. “But basically,” he said, “same time I’m thinking, ‘O.K., how I can make elephant to fly?’”

 

Part of it definitely does sound attributable to a language barrier; part of it sounds like he has made some progress on his thinking on the issue, but honestly, I feel as though I personally know his type, although you may think I am projecting (and maybe I am).  I did ballet for years at a pre-professional level when I was a kid/teenager, and the weight pressure that teachers (coaches) put on athletes/dancers is insidious.  They do phrase it as needing to be “in the best shape” but then there are the pep talks about eating to maintain a certain weight that encourage near-starvation, and it gets messy, quickly.  Read his response to Adam when Adam told him how he was subsisting at one point:  it’s not a healthy response.

Raf isn’t the devil incarnate because of this, but he’s a product of a system that perpetuates some unhealthy ideals.  I think people outside the situation think, “well, athletes need to maintain optimal weight, so of course coaches will have comments,” and it’s hard to explain unless you’re in the middle of it how much unhealthy pressure there is.  If skating is anything like ballet, it’s more like you get told to drop some pounds and get effusive praise if you do it (without any inquiry as to how it gets done).

Edited February 22, 2018 by Peace 47

[MaryMitch]

Last night, Tara and Johnny announced that they're going to be hosting the closing ceremony on NBC:

https://www.nbcolympics.com/news/tara-lipinski-and-johnny-weir-will-host-closing-ceremony

[HartofDixie]

13 hours ago, HartofDixie said:

The video

[annzeepark914]

1 hour ago, MaryMitch said:

Last night, Tara and Johnny announced that they're going to be hosting the closing ceremony on NBC:

https://www.nbcolympics.com/news/tara-lipinski-and-johnny-weir-will-host-closing-ceremony

NBC must really love these two characters to feature them so much.  

[mtlchick]

Hee hee.  How Canadian of him.

 

[Mumbles]

9 hours ago, caracas1914 said:

For all of Tara's current high media visibility, she didn't really have much endorsement longevity when she won in 98, I read Michelle Kwan still pulled in  more endorsement $$ the next few years then Tara.    And does anyone even hear much about Sarah Hughes these days? 

The only endorsement I remember for Tara was Campbell's.

As for Sarah, she won that medal fair and square but I viewed it as a bizarre result of some funky ordinal rankings. I never found her skating very exciting. I actually thought Emily Hughes was the more interesting skater.

[Growsonwalls]

Hmm more skating gossip: Michelle Kwan's marriage to Clay Pell fell apart pretty quickly and got ugly fast:

https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2017/05/michelle-kwan-learned-of-divorce-with-unpleasant-surprise