Figure Skating

[iMonrey]

Quote

Hey NBC!  Maybe if you'd spent a little less time fellating Shaun White, you could've shown more than just a half-dozen pairs' skaters' performances last night.

I wonder how NBC felt about White saying "I fucking did it! I fucking did it!" live on the air. I can't be the only one who caught that.

Quote

Adam Rippon interview with Good Morning America after his team skate:

I've seen several interviews with him now and he really doesn't have anything substantive to say. On the one hand I get that he's trying to be diplomatic - everyone keeps asking him about Mike Pence and being openly gay so it must get tiresome. And he probably doesn't want to say anything about the judging or the scoring system before the individual event. On the other hand I can't help but find him somewhat pretentious. He has a habit of being disingenuously familiar with his interviewer and saying "Oh, Andrea . . . " or "Oh, Mike . . . " like they're BFFs. 

[blackwing]

1 hour ago, proserpina65 said:

Hey NBC!  Maybe if you'd spent a little less time fellating Shaun White, you could've shown more than just a half-dozen pairs' skaters' performances last night.  (God, I hate NBC's coverage, but unfortunately I'm stuck with it.)

Do you have cable or satellite?  The NBCSN channel showed the entire competition.  I was flipping back and forth... NBC didn't even bother to show the performance of the China #2 pair.  They showed them in the team comp, I remember the man from an Olympics ages ago... his partner was also named Zhang and she threw her so high and far, she fell and crumpled and had to take a break.   I think they won silver.  Always wondered why they never made it bigger, I think they were the youngest pair but they got eclipsed by the other two Chinese pairs in the next Olympics.

[vixenbynight]

NBC is not advertising that they are showing the full skating events on NBCSN. I too, also found out by looking at my network guide early this morning. 

[Quof]

Quote

Why are the Canadians third? I thought they looked terrible. 

They are the reason I stopped watching pairs, my favourite discipline.    They are sloppy.  Her lines are horrid. She's bowlegged, which I know she can't help, but she never points her toe or straightens her arms.   I don't care that they land the jumps (with pretty ugly technique). Everything in between is ugly.  Remember when we made fun of Lipinski for jumping up and down like a monkey when she won?  She was 15.  Meaghan still does it, at 32.  And for God's sake, stop talking. 

[annzeepark914]

I was just thinking about the Kneirems a little while ago.  They skate beautifully (unless he falls on a sbs jump) but...there's no there there in their skating (at least IMO).  They're nice people, they skate to nice music...but I guess for me it's lacking some oomph (for lack of a better word).

Oh man...Shaun White? I was sick of him two O's ago.  I've got a problem with multimillionaires returning again and again to the O's when true amateurs (for whom the Olympics were created) are struggling to get some training time in and still be able to eat, take care of their lives, etc.  Now someone is accusing him of sexual abuse (a former drummer in his band).

[ChicksDigScars]

I found out AFTER it was all over when I read it here. Thanks, NBC. That's why I'm streaming the even on NBC Olympic right now. 

 

As far as Shaun White swearing on the air, he did it the other times that he won an OGM, too. And the other night, NBC had to apologize on the air after Red Gerard won, for the same thing. A little too many "fucks" to give when you win a medal in snowboarding, especially for the guys. Thankfully, not the same for Jamie Anderson or Chloe Kim (who is ADORABLE, by the way). Can you imagine if a figure skater did that in the Kiss and Cry? OMG. (clutches pearls)

 

I wonder how NBC feels TODAY, when the sexual harassment allegations regarding Shaun White hit the news cycle, conveniently AFTER he won a OGM.  Granted, if Michaela Shiffrin had been able to ski last night, there would have been less snowboarding, and pair skating would have gotten shafted even more (topic!). 

 

I see that the Tano has now infected the Pairs. Sui threw her hand up during her triple twist. 

Edited February 14, 2018 by ChicksDigScars

[Chaser]

2 minutes ago, annzeepark914 said:

I was just thinking about the Kneirems a little while ago.  They skate beautifully (unless he falls on a sbs jump) but...there's no there there in their skating (at least IMO).  They're nice people, they skate to nice music...but I guess for me it's lacking some oomph (for lack of a better word).

Oh man...Shaun White? I was sick of him two O's ago.  I've got a problem with multimillionaires returning again and again to the O's when true amateurs (for whom the Olympics were created) are struggling to get some training time in and still be able to eat, take care of their lives, etc.  Now someone is accusing him of sexual abuse (a former drummer in his band).

I think the Kneirems are very cute, but skating wise there is something lacking. I think they are slow and very telegraphed in their elements. It hurts their flow and doesn't allow for 'moments' in the programs.  

[AuntieDiane6]

Quote

Eh, I'm OK with the Knierims. They came through when it mattered, to win for themselves and the team. They weren't going to medal in their discipline anyway. And they just seem happy to be there. They are super-cute.

I want our Olympic athletes to WANT TO WIN.  That casual happy-to-be-there attitude is why we only have one pair in the Olympics.  It seems they only concentrate when they NEED to win.

Quote

I wonder how NBC felt about White saying "I fucking did it! I fucking did it!" live on the air. I can't be the only one who caught that.

We know they're saying it so in my mind, it's ok. No need to grab our fans to prevent our fainting.  

Quote

Sui and Han were so good.

Yes, but dear God, I hate when her stupid HAIR covers her face and it looks like her partner is skating with a MOP.  On the other hand, I begrudgingly admit that hair is fantastic and I want to know what shampoo she's using. 

Quote

I wonder how NBC feels TODAY, when the sexual harassment allegations regarding Shaun White hit the news cycle, conveniently AFTER he won a OGM.

Was going to comment, but decided that it would just create another long discussion about harassment ... : (  

Edited February 14, 2018 by AuntieDiane6

[leopardprint]

The NBC Sports App (Not the NBC App) has dedicated live streams for most of the events however someone mentioned above that you need to have the USA network in your cable package to access it using your cable network log in. 

Edited February 14, 2018 by leopardprint

[blackwing]

Re the Knierims, I like their attitude.  They know they aren't the best, and as far as they are concerned, Team was their chance to medal.  They went out and did so well in the short program.  They got a medal.  They know they aren't competitive in individual, but they just want to do well for themselves and enjoy the moment

Are they retiring?  NBC interviewed them after their skate and said how can you top this Valentines Day next year?  She said something like "maybe with a Valentines Day baby" and he acted like he didn't hear her.  

[AshleyN]

28 minutes ago, ChicksDigScars said:

I wonder how NBC feels TODAY, when the sexual harassment allegations regarding Shaun White hit the news cycle, conveniently AFTER he won a OGM.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure the allegations have been out there for awhile. NBC just chose to ignore them until it was brought up elsewhere.

Edited February 14, 2018 by AshleyN

[Minneapple]

I watched the entire pairs program on the NBC Sports app and it was fine. It was actually really nice because they had the "enhanced viewing"  -- they slowed down the clips and showed the slo-mo breakdowns of the skaters' positions. 

I'm not surprised NBC showed snowboarding. It was a medal event, White was a favorite to win and he's a known commodity. And honestly? The pairs short gets tedious after awhile. So many of the programs are basically the same.

And yeah, the Americans aren't good. NBC is playing to an American audience so naturally the focus will be on the Americans. It's a rare athlete -- someone like Usain Bolt -- that transcends that.

[BitterApple]

1 hour ago, proserpina65 said:

Hey NBC!  Maybe if you'd spent a little less time fellating Shaun White, you could've shown more than just a half-dozen pairs' skaters' performances last night.  (God, I hate NBC's coverage, but unfortunately I'm stuck with it.)

Unpopular opinion: I find the snowboarders to be obnoxious and immature. I'll be glad when the tongue bathing is over and I never have to see any of them on my TV screen again.

[basiltherat]

Seeing Zhao again reminded me how much I loved he and his partner Shen when they finally broke the Russian domination.  I loved the throw they did -- TV once measured that he threw her the length of a sofa.  I always thought he was good looking and he has aged much better than that 'Bag Artur!  I Wiki-ed him and found out that they were allowed to finally get married and they do have a daughter.  

Loved the Chinese pairs and the North Koreans were good and very, very cute.  Much more expression out of a strict society than the Russians show!

[proserpina65]

1 hour ago, ChicksDigScars said:

I'm watching the replay on the NBC app. They have all the short programs. No Tara and Johnny, either. *BONUS*

If I try to stream on my computer at home, I get a lot of buffering.  UGH.  Can't do it at work, unfortunately.  I'd love to not have Tara and Johnny.

[BitterApple]

42 minutes ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

I want our Olympic athletes to WANT TO WIN.  That casual happy-to-be-there attitude is why we only have one pair in the Olympics.  It seems they only concentrate when they NEED to win.

 

This^^^. I understand the Knierims have been through a lot, but telling interviewers they're not looking at the Olympics as a competition sort of sours me on them. It IS a freaking competition, and if you're not going to show up with guns blazing then why bother even being there? It doesn't matter whether you have a chance at a medal or not, it's not a vacation with a little skating thrown in.

Edited February 14, 2018 by BitterApple

[Moxie Cat]

55 minutes ago, blackwing said:

Do you have cable or satellite?  The NBCSN channel showed the entire competition.

I'm not sure this is entirely true...I had NBCSN most of the night, but when the final group was on and airing on NBC, NBCSN had switched to other sports. So my guess is that they don't air the same transmission on both channels. I missed some of the final group(s) because I was doing other stuff and relying on the dvr, and didn't realize I had to change to NBC.

[annzeepark914]

Oh Lawd have mercy...last night, did Tara once again babble on about her experience on Olympic ice?  I wish she'd be replaced by Tanith who is doing an excellent job as a commentator (during ice dance competition & during Olympic Ice).  Actually, I think Tanith and Ben would be a great commentating couple, paired with Terry.  We wouldn't have to endure any of the silliness and we'd get really good descriptions of what skaters are doing/not doing on the ice.  

Fingers crossed for the Germans tonight.  I loved their SP (looked a little like ice dance in places which made a pairs SP come alive IMO).

[absnow54]

Unpopular opinion: I find the snowboarders to be obnoxious and immature.

Not to get too off topic, but my opinion of snowboarders really changed watching the slopestyle event. I think it was the athlete from New Zealand, wiped out on the final run and was out of medal contention, but the second he got the bottom he barreled towards Red Gerrard to congratulate him, and I thought it showed really good sportsmanship.

And honestly? The pairs short gets tedious after awhile. So many of the programs are basically the same.

I agree, I feel like I was watching the same performance over and over set to different music. Side by side jump, toss and catch, awkward conjoined spin, rocket launcher, and lift. For some reason the individual skates and dances always look unique, but pairs is really repetitive.

[proserpina65]

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

Do you have cable or satellite?  The NBCSN channel showed the entire competition.  I was flipping back and forth... NBC didn't even bother to show the performance of the China #2 pair.  They showed them in the team comp, I remember the man from an Olympics ages ago... his partner was also named Zhang and she threw her so high and far, she fell and crumpled and had to take a break.   I think they won silver.  Always wondered why they never made it bigger, I think they were the youngest pair but they got eclipsed by the other two Chinese pairs in the next Olympics.

NBCSN costs extra on Directv, so I don't get it.

[Moxie Cat]

34 minutes ago, blackwing said:

Re the Knierims, I like their attitude.  They know they aren't the best,

I agree with the sentiment that you should want to win, but these athletes know the names Zagitova, Hanyu, etc. and most of them are realistic - most are not going to win medals or have the technical skills to compete with the world's best in their discipline. I would hope that people like Nathan or Mirai skate balls-out to win, but the Knierims, to me, are a different story. They are battling back from an enormous setback with her health and are probably only focusing on doing their best (and not being to hard on themselves if that doesn't happen). Maybe I'd have a different outlook if we had a pairs team that was comparable or better than them, who didn't get the chance to go, but we don't (arguably - I don't want to open a can of worms about the other U.S. pairs). The K's pulled their weight in the team comp and personally I'm happy with them.

Holy cow - that final men's group! Talk about stressful watching! Super-surprised Chan wasn't slotted into it though.

[Chaser]

I think the Pairs competition would really benefit from adding more ice dance elements. Too often it can come across like watered down singles.

[Quiet1ne]

33 minutes ago, vixenbynight said:

NBC is not advertising that they are showing the full skating events on NBCSN. I too, also found out by looking at my network guide early this morning. 

I heard Mike Tirico telling viewers to find the full pairs program on NBCSN after the US skated as NBC switched back to snowboarding.  They may have also mentioned it at the start of the program but I was not home yet.

[proserpina65]

42 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

I'm not surprised NBC showed snowboarding. It was a medal event, White was a favorite to win and he's a known commodity. And honestly? The pairs short gets tedious after awhile. So many of the programs are basically the same.

I have no problem with NBC showing the snowboarding.  It's the twenty minutes of Shaun White worship before and after which pissed me off.  They could've used some of that time for other things.  Like a few more pairs.  Broken up by the snowboarding coverage, it wouldn't seem tedious. to me.

I am pissed to have missed the Knierims, though.  I was watching something on tape while the snowboarding was on.

Edited February 14, 2018 by proserpina65

[leopardprint]

14 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

NBCSN costs extra on Directv, so I don't get it.

I think you can still log into the app and watch the streams that way with the basic DirectTV as long as it has USA and NBC.  

I vaguely remember during Torino that NBC really latched onto the medal favorite couple from China because they loved to constantly mention how their coach was the first Chinese pair to compete internationally and they were like humiliated or something but then he came back as a coach of the medal contenders. 

Edited February 14, 2018 by leopardprint

[proserpina65]

5 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

I think you can still log into the app and watch the streams that way with the basic DirectTV as long as it has USA and NBC.  

I vaguely remember during Torino that NBC really latched onto the medal favorite couple from China because they loved to constantly mention how their coach was the first Chinese pair to compete internationally and they were like humiliated or something but then he came back as a coach of the medal contenders. 

Unfortunately I can't stream on my 20 year old tv either.  Someday I'll replace it with something that can, but not for this Olympics.  So I'm stuck complaining about NBC as usual.

[leopardprint]

18 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

Unfortunately I can't stream on my 20 year old tv either.  Someday I'll replace it with something that can, but not for this Olympics.  So I'm stuck complaining about NBC as usual.

Sometimes I simultaneously watch one stream on my phone and one on my TV. And then I wonder why my attention span is basically non-existent. 

Edited February 14, 2018 by leopardprint

[ChromaKelly]

2 hours ago, absnow54 said:

 

I wonder if those numbers are skewed due to Alexa's illness. 15 hours a week seems really low though. Even if you worked full time and could only put in a couple hours a day M-F, training full time on the weekend would give you at least 16-25 hours.

 

Did they ever mention that they were showing the pairs skating in full on NBCSN? I only knew because I saw it in this thread. At the same time, I get that NBC can't only show figure skating, and pairs isn't very popular in the US, while snowboarding seems to be the main source of American medals.

Depending on their situation, it can be expensive and difficult to find ice to train on. My son skates. Granted he's only 9 years old and he's just starting to move up, he got his axel a few months ago and is just starting double salchow and loop jumps. We spend about $850/month on lessons and ice time. Yeah, I know. Most rinks only have a couple hours of freestyle time a day, especially on weekends. So, even finding ice time can be hard. And, skating isn't something you can really do for say 6-8 hours at a time. Two hours can be tiring with all the jumps. I'm curious how much of the "Training" time listed includes off ice workouts? My son also takes an off-ice class. He's skating about 8 hours a week. With school, it is difficult to fit that in, I can't imagine a full time job, a family maybe, and trying to pay for things at that level. Figure skating is one of the most expensive sports. Other sports, if you want to practice, you can just kick a ball around outside. Skating you have to go pay for ice time. In hockey season, the figure skaters lose their time. Freestyle ice can cost anywhere from $10-20/hr. I'm sure people at the Olympic level probably rent hours for themselves at times, that's about $80-100/hr.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Re the Knierims, I like their attitude.  They know they aren't the best, and as far as they are concerned, Team was their chance to medal.  They went out and did so well in the short program.  They got a medal.  They know they aren't competitive in individual, but they just want to do well for themselves and enjoy the moment

It's frustrating though because they did nail it in the team competition but then in the individual short they messed up their side by side jumps, their throw jump and their triple twist. WTF? Did they run out of steam after the team event or did they just relax too much after winning the only medal they knew they were going to get? They're in 14th right now I think. That's sad. They could be much higher. You have to think part of this is effort.

[CeeBeeGee]

On 2/10/2018 at 11:23 PM, PoshSprinkles said:

From what I remember, she literally skated lights out and capitalized on minor mistakes from Michelle (sob) and Irina (meh). Kind of like Nastia in '08, she had the best skating day of her life when it counted most. 

ETA: Googled it and I forgot the Sarah won in a tiebreaker over Irina. Russians filed a protest and IOC dismissed it. 

And did she earn it! That was one of the most brilliant LPs ever, IMO--beautifully skated *and* choreographed. She really rose to the occasion.

 

On 2/11/2018 at 9:26 PM, WhitneyWhit said:

Team Canada being just as excited about Mirai's triple axel as Team USA warmed my cold heart.

That was so awesome to see! Good for them :)

 

On 2/11/2018 at 10:24 PM, CherryMalotte said:

I have to agree about the Russians.  It's still very much a machine in their training, and yes they can hit all the technicals, and yes, aren't they pretty skaters - but they don't feel the music.  Very very rarely have I seen a Russian skater truly have a connection with the music.  It's all script and no soul.  There are a few exceptions, I always liked Ilia Kulik, but yes - very cold, all the colors are in the lines.  

Huh, you think Kulik was artistic? Interesting,I always just saw him as a jumping machine--consistent and perfect but just there to hit his jumps.

 

On 2/12/2018 at 1:51 PM, mostlylurking said:

Ugh.  She really rubs me the wrong way.  She made the team last Olympics which I thought was totally wrong and undeserved.  This year she is not a part of it but still trying to make herself relevant.  I liked when Adam was being interviewed and he said last Olympics he and Mirai were bummed not to be a part of it but this year they are both there and how Mirai especially really deserves it.  I took this as a dig towards Ashley, whose took Mirai's spot last time (probably imagined but she really bugs).

Adam himself made the team the same way and he's a good friend of Ashley's so I doubt he's taking a dig at her. He doesn't seem to be that petty anyway.

 

On 2/12/2018 at 2:17 PM, ChicksDigScars said:

Too bad she's absolutely RIGHT about the back loading. 

And Yagudin asking, "Where is she?" as a way to bully her into silence? Fuck him. She's entitled to her opinion, and she's the same place that you are pal. WATCHING the Olympics. 

Judging from the Russian reaction, which includes Sotnikova coming out of the woodwork to defend the "art" of back loading, Ashley struck a nerve. 

 

 

 

Oh my God. Sotnikova, your LP choreography included waving bye bye to the audience and playing tug of war. You wouldn't know skating artistry if it knocked you up. (Lord, remember her exhibition skate? Where she got tangled up in all those...semaphores?) You've been smart and have barely skated since Sochi--don't remind us of the shitshow where somehow your PCS score mysteriously jumped 30 points all so they could gift you the OGM. Utter fucking travesty that neither Carolina nor Mao beat her in the LP.

I am still so bitter about that result. Please stop trying o destroy the sport I love. And that AUDIENCE in Sochi! God, they were so effing rude.

 

On 2/13/2018 at 2:58 AM, Mellowyellow said:

Does anyone here know much more about Sasha Cohen and give me some goss?

I don't know much about her other than that I thought she was a beautiful skater and was so sad for her when she fell. I remember reading a few articles afterwards which implied she was a choker? Was she? She looked so beautiful on ice! 

Somebody else gave a great write up of Sasha. All I can add is that she was absolutely gifted and gorgeous, but she simply could not compete. Her SP in Torino was stunning. But ys you could see the terror in her eyes when she skated out to start the LP.

 

On 2/13/2018 at 6:03 AM, EllenB said:

I don't seem to be able to do links from my phone since I am a tech-challenged geezer, but my favorite Olympic skating moment was Paul Wylie's breakout performance that won a silver.  I think his LP score was actually higher than Viktor Petrenko's.  Wylie had been around for years and had some nice routines, but always choked on jumps at Nationals.  He was the third member on the U.S. team and I don't think anyone expected much from him.  The two "stars" of the team were a party animal who pretty much decided to wing it on his routine after not practicing, and failed miserably (Bowman?), and a guy whose name I don't remember who turned his impressive Nationals routine to "West Side Story" into a splatfest.  So I am always hoping that someone will come out of obscurity and have a similar memorable, perfect star-making routine as Wylie did.

Christopher Bowman!!! One of my favorites. Bowman the Showman! David Lease had some hilarious posts abut him on the Aunt Joyce blog. Bowman was SO talented, such an incredibly charismatic performer. Very sad ending though.

 

23 hours ago, Mumbles said:

I love Johnny as a commentator. I like how he comments too on the presentation, including costumes, music choice, etc. If we can't have Dick Button, we can at least have Johnny.  And I think he strikes the right balance in the frequency of his comments. He's not jabbering through the performance.

Yes! On another (now defunct) TV comment board a lot of us had fun having imagining Sasha say "Bitch, please" in various scenarios.

I remember we wanted a TV show called "Bitch, Please" and I think either Johnny or Dick Button was wanted to host it :)

[Souris]

7 minutes ago, CeeBeeGee said:

I remember we wanted a TV show called "Bitch, Please" and I think either Johnny or Dick Button was wanted to host it :)

With Svetlana Khorkina!

[Good Queen Jane]

1 hour ago, Chaser said:

I think the Pairs competition would really benefit from adding more ice dance elements. Too often it can come across like watered down singles.

That's interesting because not too long ago dance was being called Pairs Lite because the dance programs were doing a lot of lifts and spins. So the ISU made rules changes that discouraged that. Now more pairs are putting twizzles in their programs and using more dance type music. I'm sure the ISU will try to stop those. Pairs is closer to singles than dance in what they do.

Edited February 14, 2018 by Good Queen Jane

[HartofDixie]

The Skating Lesson: This and That: 2018 Olympic Games Team Event with Kimmie Meissner

[displayname]

19 minutes ago, CeeBeeGee said:

Sotnikova, your LP choreography included waving bye bye to the audience and playing tug of war.

Sottie's sad that she didn't think of backloading her triple flutz-"triple" toe to beat Yuna's WR.

22 minutes ago, CeeBeeGee said:

mysteriously

"mysteriously"

[HartofDixie]

2 hours ago, annzeepark914 said:

Oh Lawd have mercy...last night, did Tara once again babble on about her experience on Olympic ice?

How many more times will we hear Tara (or Johnny & Terry) mention her OGM?  If Alina were to win I think she would still be older than Tara was when she won.

[halopub]

On 2/12/2018 at 3:34 AM, fan94 said:

http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1718/owg2018/OWG2018_TeamLadies_FS_F_Scores.pdf

Those of you with technical expertise...does it make sense that some judges would only give Mirai a zero or one for execution of her triple axel? To my untrained eye, it looked like she had a smooth entry and decent height. Should she have held the landing longer? I was surprised that jumps like that only warrant a 1.57 for grade of execution.

[absnow54]

And another question on how GOE works. It looks like sometimes they throw out the highest and lowest score and average the rest, but other times the number they come up with is nothing close to what the judges scored, and if judges can award between -3 and 3, why does it look like the max GOE score you can get is 2? (I'm a math person and trying to decipher this is driving me bonkers!)

[displayname]

21 minutes ago, halopub said:

Those of you with technical expertise...does it make sense that some judges would only give Mirai a zero or one for execution of her triple axel? To my untrained eye, it looked like she had a smooth entry and decent height. Should she have held the landing longer? I was surprised that jumps like that only warrant a 1.57 for grade of execution.

The GOE bullet points are:

1) unexpected / creative / difficult entry
2) clear recognizable (creative, interesting, original for jump preceded by steps/movements of the Short Program) steps/free skating movements immediately preceding element
3) varied position in the air / delay in rotation
4) good height and distance
5) good extension on landing / creative exit
6) good flow from entry to exit including jump combinations / sequences
7) effortless throughout
8) element matched to the musical structure

 

Starting from a zero, if two points are satisfied that's +1 GOE, +2 for 4, +3 for six or more.

 

Mirai didn't satisfy 1), as she just holds a forward edge into the jump.

2) Also not satified.

3) No Tanos, no Rippons, no delays.

4) This can be taken into account, though it wasn't really an exceptional element (not to take away from its difficulty)

5) This holds. (good extension)

6) Doesn't hold. Flow was OK.

7) This was fine.

8) This was kind of placed when the music was building, so it can be taken into account.

 

So 3-4 are checked off, so the +1 to +2 GOE -- I'd be inclined to give it a +1, but +2 could be justified.

 

0 isn't justified for this element. But the judges are known to practically never follow this system.

6 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

And another question on how GOE works. It looks like sometimes they throw out the highest and lowest score and average the rest, but other times the number they come up with is nothing close to what the judges scored, and if judges can award between -3 and 3, why does it look like the max GOE score you can get is 2? (I'm a math person and trying to decipher this is driving me bonkers!)

 For triples (except the axel): throw max and min, average (so add, then divide by 7), multiply by 0.7 (or just add and divide by 10).

Edited February 14, 2018 by fan94

[halopub]

Thanks so much for the detailed primer. I also appreciate the little insight into ISU math.

It'll be interesting to see if we hear the results of the post-Olympic scoring review and whether they'll conclude judges over/underscored anyone. Absent a major scandal, probably not but I vaguely remember commentators mentioning a ladies skate years ago, which would have switched two skaters that were both off the podium.

[herbz]

1 hour ago, Good Queen Jane said:

That's interesting because not too long ago dance was being called Pairs Lite because the dance programs were doing a lot of lifts and spins. So the ISU made rules changes that discouraged that. Now more pairs are putting twizzles in their programs and using more dance type music. I'm sure the ISU will try to stop those. Pairs is closer to singles than dance in what they do.

 

It's interesting, because a common complaint among all the ice dance coaches I know is that dance once again is starting to slide the way of pairs aesthetically because of the current trend towards programs with pretty minimal skating in closed hold post the end of compulsories- despite the basis of the discipline being translating ballroom to ice. Skating closely together takes a backseat now to ice coverage in the scoring. Waltzes from 2007 are so different from the waltzes in 2016. There's a concern that the current novices and juniors who will never compete senior compulsories and have no incentive to improve their skating in closed hold will come up in a discipline that looks less and less like dance in the coming quads. 

Edited February 14, 2018 by herbz

[absnow54]

For triples (except the axel): throw max and min, average (so add, then divide by 7), multiply by 0.7 (or just add and divide by 10).

Okay so for the triple axel you get 100% of your GOE after the max and min are thrown out, for triples you get 70% of your GOE, and it looks like for doubles (including the double axel!?!?) and spins you get 50%. Johnny and Scott are right. Skating has really turned into a numbers game.

[Jaded]

Blade Dynamics Explains How Olympic Figure Skaters Can Stand on Each Other

[displayname]

Sui and Han's story

[annzeepark914]

If you look at old videos of ice dancing (I recently saw some from 1988), the women wore costumes that (some) looked like tutus almost and the skating looked so stiff compared with today's ice dancing.  I like the new style - it's more athletic and more interesting to watch (even if you don't know the ins & outs of ice dancing, you can still enjoy it and some times catch the errors...esp in twizzles).

[herbz]

16 minutes ago, annzeepark914 said:

If you look at old videos of ice dancing (I recently saw some from 1988), the women wore costumes that (some) looked like tutus almost and the skating looked so stiff compared with today's ice dancing.  I like the new style - it's more athletic and more interesting to watch (even if you don't know the ins & outs of ice dancing, you can still enjoy it and some times catch the errors...esp in twizzles).

Dance could be just so unwatchably tacky back then. Torvill and Dean were an absolute godsend for the discipline. It slid backwards for quite a while, but I really feel that the V/M, D/W years and the athleticism they brought gave it real legitimacy as a sport again. The IJS has many issues, but it's far preferable to 6.0 IMO.  

Edited February 14, 2018 by herbz

[Tanichka]

8 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

Why are the Canadians third? I thought they looked terrible. 

Haven't seen them that much, but they were really lacklustre.  I enjoyed the Koreans.

1 hour ago, herbz said:

Dance could be just so unwatchably tacky back then. Torvill and Dean were an absolute godsend for the discipline

Never cared for them & their Bolero routine made me want to vomit.  Couldn't stand the Duchesneys either.  Much prefer today's crop of ice dancers.

Edited February 14, 2018 by Tanichka

[CeeBeeGee]

Interesting article on Dave lease. FWIW I prefer the old blog style rather than having to sit through these long videos.

[herbz]

29 minutes ago, Tanichka said:

Haven't seen them that much, but they were really lacklustre.  I enjoyed the Koreans.

Never cared for them & their Bolero routine made me want to vomit.  Couldn't stand the Duchesneys either.  Much prefer today's crop of ice dancers.

 

Ah, I can appreciate their sheer versatility and range of programs. I think it's their Rumba I go back to more than Bolero. They really did show a new way of movement on the ice. The Duchesneys weren't really my cup of tea either. 

It's a very deep field in dance atm, with a lot of really talented couples excelling in different areas. Some very promising new seniors and upcoming juniors too, so it'll be in safe hands post-Olympics. All good things. It's partly why I find the judging so frustrating- because this should be the most dramatically close, brilliant for the sport, competition of them all rather than a dubious coronation. 

Edited February 14, 2018 by herbz

[Moxie Cat]

4 hours ago, CeeBeeGee said:

Huh, you think Kulik was artistic? Interesting,I always just saw him as a jumping machine--consistent and perfect but just there to hit his jumps.

I am enjoying this discussion because all I know of Kulik is "Center Stage" - he preceded my more diligent skating watching of the past decade. "Russian mafia."

[HartofDixie]

41 minutes ago, CeeBeeGee said:

Interesting article on Dave lease. FWIW I prefer the old blog style rather than having to sit through these long videos.

This is great! The videos can be long at times but it's kept me interested in skating especially this season when almost all the GP events were on NBCSN.

Edited February 14, 2018 by HartofDixie