Figure Skating

[legaleagle53]

3 hours ago, Minneapple said:

Nothing. I just have a constitutionally protected right to irrationally hate random celebrities. It is in the Constitution, right? If not it should be.

For me it's not just the expression, it's more like the overwrought "WE'RE IN LOVE, REALLY WE'RE IN LOVE" expressions. 

And they wonder why the crazy-ass bloggers insist that they're secretly married and have three kids together!

[Growsonwalls]

So I checked out the instagram of Pasha Grishuk's daughter, who is now apparently a budding tennis player. Pasha looks almost completely different. I mean I guess the face is the same but she looks like a middle-aged soccer (or in this case tennis) mom. There's not a trace of the Bad Girl of Skating left in her and she appears to lead a quiet life. 

[legaleagle53]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

They need to do a trashy primetime soap about ice dancing already!

This is slightly off topic of the current discussion,  but I just noticed that the women's short program is on Tuesday and then the long is on Thursday and I was wondering if there was any particular reason why there's a day in between.

Probably because there will be some short-track speed skating on Wednesday.  It uses the same rink as the figure skaters.

[sweeks]

10 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

It sometimes seems like the judges confuse “ artistic” with “sexual chemistry” so the siblings start behind the 8 ball.  I am tired of ice dancing couples trying to convince me they are secretly in love.  Tortilla and Dean didn’t have to resort to the trope to be amazing.

This. So much this. I feel like it has been more prominent this last cycle, particularly with the rise of P/C and H/D, as well as the return of V/M. Someone mentioned much earlier in the forums that, if skaters have chemistry, they should use it, but the problem becomes when they are pigeonholed into it. This is true, and I'd add that the focus on smoldering on the ice seems to mitigate a number of skating flaws, at least from the judges' pov. Rather than focusing on the skating, there tends to be talk of "connection." Connection is important in skating, but it shouldn't be more (or, I'd argue, even as) important than actual skating skills.

[kili]

Quote

There's been speculation that there is some hormonal manipulation going on that prevents the Russian women from hitting puberty until after they go to the Olympics). 

Starvation can also delay that without the drugs. The female gymnasts used to do that too. Some of those tricks get harder after you develop. That's part of the reason for the age limitations.

[ChicksDigScars]

2 hours ago, HartofDixie said:

And then Tanith and Charlie got together and are now married.  But I don't think that tension/drama was anything close to Maia/Alex/Pasha.

USOVA and ZULIN. Not the SHIBS. LMAO. 

Wow. I just noticed the similarities in names with your post. Were the Shibs born around the time that Usova/Zhulin were on top, or towards the top? Makes me wonder if their mom saw the names on TV and thought, "Oh....pretty." 

 

Well, Maia Shibutani was born in 1994, so, maybe.....

[Growsonwalls]

9 minutes ago, sweeks said:

This. So much this. I feel like it has been more prominent this last cycle, particularly with the rise of P/C and H/D, as well as the return of V/M. Someone mentioned much earlier in the forums that, if skaters have chemistry, they should use it, but the problem becomes when they are pigeonholed into it. This is true, and I'd add that the focus on smoldering on the ice seems to mitigate a number of skating flaws, at least from the judges' pov. Rather than focusing on the skating, there tends to be talk of "connection." Connection is important in skating, but it shouldn't be more (or, I'd argue, even as) important than actual skating skills.

Hmm well to be honest the idea that a pair had to be "in love" really started with Gordeeva and Grinkov. Marina Zoueva started all those lovey dovey romantic programs with them. And then when Sergei died so young the Sergei widows were maybe the first crazy online fanfic shippers. There was constant talk that since Katia remarried she couldn't be reunited in heaven and therefore they would have to be his "spiritual wife." It was crazy. 

[annzeepark914]

2 hours ago, HartofDixie said:

8 minute mark.

I looked at this 8 minute mark but this wasn't the Bitch Face on Donohue that I saw that night--he was furious!  And it showed all over his face. This one was a mild expression.

[sweeks]

6 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

Hmm well to be honest the idea that a pair had to be "in love" really started with Gordeeva and Grinkov. Marina Zoueva started all those lovey dovey romantic programs with them. And then when Sergei died so young the Sergei widows were maybe the first crazy online fanfic shippers. There was constant talk that since Katia remarried she couldn't be reunited in heaven and therefore they would have to be his "spiritual wife." It was crazy. 

True (and the Sergei widows sound insane). I was thinking more along the lines of chemistry in ice dance. Zoueva was indeed guilty of creating a lot of romantic programs for G&G, and she carried on the tradition with V/M. However, it does seem like it has become more prominent in ice dance as of late due to the choreography of so many of the top teams (maybe Marie-France has picked up where Zoueva left off :). Perhaps it seemed like less of an issue when D/W were at the top, since they didn't have that aspect to their skating.

[ChicksDigScars]

7 minutes ago, annzeepark914 said:

I looked at this 8 minute mark but this wasn't the Bitch Face on Donohue that I saw that night--he was furious!  And it showed all over his face. This one was a mild expression.

Not just the bitch faces, but paired with Hubbell and Donahue being the only members of the US Figure Skating team that didn't show up to support their teammates in the Team Event, when even Chock, Bates, Zhou and KChen managed to show up for a little while on one or more of the nights, and Madison's slip about their fellow Montreal skaters being their real "team," left many with a bad taste. 

The "pairs must be in love" goes way back, before Gordeeva and Grinkov. Three time OGM,  Irina Rodnina, had some partner love drama. She won the 1972 OGM with Alexei Ulanov.   There's a famous video of Rodnina leaving the ice in tears after skating, because she was in love with him and he had fallen in love with another pairs skater (which he later teamed up with).   Rodnina was then paired with Alexander Zaitsev and won the OGM in '76 and '80 (sniff....Tai and Randy).  She married Zaitsev and had a baby in 1979, the year that Tai and Randy won World's. 

I think that the '84 OGM's (Valova and Vasiliev) were also married. They were so blah. The Carruther's had twice the personality that they did. 

[Kemper]

I don't follow ice skating much between Olympics.  I always love to watch when it is on; took my kids to the Ice Capades back in the day.  Sometimes, a lot of the Olympic skaters did a season or two in the Capades.  Reading this board, I had no idea of all the intrigue.  And I must admit I don't know who a lot of the skaters (especially the ice dancers) are.

I think it is disgraceful that judging is so slanted and political.  It makes me sad that usually, favored skaters/teams going in to the Olympics almost always win the medals.  A skater who comes in and does the performance of a lifetime sometimes has no chance.  Although I think about Sarah Hughes and Tara Lipinsky probably not being favorites.  But who knows, maybe they were.

Unpopular opinion, but I hated the short programs last night.  Probably because of the music.  Hated it.  And I know they had to use that music due to the elements required by the judges.  I ended up flipping the remote to something else.  And I don't care for the female announcer; I wish I had started drinking shots...and taken one every time she said "twizzle"... I know, I am grumpy due to my favs, the sibs, not really having much of a chance.  And I hated some of the ice dancing costumes; although they were entertaining in a horrified way.  I'll take what I can get.

[Silver Raven]

Quote

Unpopular opinion, but I hated the short programs last night.

At least they don't have the mandatory "skate the exact same steps to the exact same music" program that used to be required in ice dance.

[legaleagle53]

3 minutes ago, Silver Raven said:

At least they don't have the mandatory "skate the exact same steps to the exact same music" program that used to be required in ice dance.

Oh, I don't know -- I thought the compulsories were a wonderful round of the competition that emphasized the fact that Ice Dancing actually has its roots in ballroom dancing.  I for one would love to see the compulsories reinstated.

[Silver Raven]

Just now, legaleagle53 said:

Oh, I don't know -- I thought the compulsories were a wonderful round of the competition that emphasized the fact that Ice Dancing actually has its roots in ballroom dancing.  I for one would love to see the compulsories reinstated.

It was so boooooring.

[herbz]

Just now, legaleagle53 said:

Oh, I don't know -- I thought the compulsories were a wonderful round of the competition that emphasized the fact that Ice Dancing actually has its roots in ballroom dancing.  I for one would love to see the compulsories reinstated.

Ditto. I hate that they've gone. It's really had a negative impact on the quality of skating in younger teams too. 

[HartofDixie]

Debi Thomas

[MyAimIsTrue]

19 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

Oh, I don't know -- I thought the compulsories were a wonderful round of the competition that emphasized the fact that Ice Dancing actually has its roots in ballroom dancing.  I for one would love to see the compulsories reinstated.

I'm nowhere near the figure skating fan I once was but ice dancing remains my favorite discipline and I loved the compulsories as it was great seeing the different takes on the dance.

[Ohwell]

40 minutes ago, Kemper said:

Unpopular opinion, but I hated the short programs last night.  Probably because of the music.  Hated it.  And I know they had to use that music due to the elements required by the judges.  I ended up flipping the remote to something else.  And I don't care for the female announcer; I wish I had started drinking shots...and taken one every time she said "twizzle"... I know, I am grumpy due to my favs, the sibs, not really having much of a chance.  And I hated some of the ice dancing costumes; although they were entertaining in a horrified way.  I'll take what I can get.

This.  I got so tired of hearing "twizzles." All she had to do was say it a couple times and we would have known what they were going forward.  No need to repeat it every friggin' time someone did it.  I was also tired of the same style of music for every couple.  I also hated most of the costumes.

I guess I'm grumpy too! ; )

[leopardprint]

5 minutes ago, HartofDixie said:

Debi Thomas

Oh wow, what a story, I don’t even know what to say. Figure skating medalist to orthopedic surgeon to hypnotist is quite the journey. 

[Chaser]

Debi Thomas doesn't sound all there to me.

[legaleagle53]

Just now, Chaser said:

Debi Thomas doesn't sound all there to me.

Yeah, she's had a rough life, but I agree that there's something off about her. I'm also sure that there's not a little bit of bitterness involved (although maybe that's just me).

[galaxygirl76]

I watched a documentary about the 88 Olympics and the battle between the two 'Carmens', at one point Debi said that there was more to life than skating and she wanted to enjoy that as one of the reasons she didn't keep it together.

I also found out during that documentary that Kati Witt was actually skating for her freedom due to a deal with the East German government if she won the gold again they would allow her to go and tour the world as a pro. I never heard about that. 

[greyhorse]

5 hours ago, GeminiDancer said:

Women's hips tend to be wider than men, so it's going to take more time for a woman to make a full rotation in the air than a man would. Take notice of the jumping beans who struggle with jumps once puberty hits and they have hips. It messes with your timing. Also, the amount of torque required to get around would do damage, so it's almost not worth it (Tara retired because of hip injuries). There's also only so much time that's spent in the air, so those two factors make it not worth doing.

 

4 hours ago, doodlebug said:

A woman's weight/center of gravity is lower, she also has smaller muscles.  That means that it is far more difficult for a woman to have the strength to launch herself up into the air far enough to complete 4 rotations in the air before hitting the ice again.  If you look at women singles skaters, you'll notice that most of them are tiny, and, especially the Russian women, look pre-pubescent.  That's because they haven't developed a woman's body yet.  A woman's breasts and hips are less aerodynamic than a man's and they create some drag that isn't there in young girls and men.  Most of the young Russian girls skating now will be done once they hit puberty (presuming the Russian figure skating people allow that to happen.  There's been speculation that there is some hormonal manipulation going on that prevents the Russian women from hitting puberty until after they go to the Olympics).  Anyway, it's all just physics and women aren't built for the strength and speed needed to perform quad jumps.  Eventually, one or more of them will figure it out, but its a lot tougher than for a man.

So what is the explanation for why some men can do it and why some can't?  It must be just sheer speed, leg strength, and vertical jump, right?  Adam Rippon has been very open about the fact that he knows he can't compete because he doesn't have a quad.  And that the only way he could have medaled is if those attempting riskier quads all fell down, and then he would just slide in there with his safe triples.  That just doesn't seem like a great attitude.  I didn't know a thing about Adam Rippon until this Olympics, as I'm sure much of the country would say as well.  Has he tried a quad?  Has he failed miserably and just can't do it?  I think I read somewhere that he needed Brian Orser to help him with one of the triple jumps, so if that was a stretch to do, then no way he could do a quad?    If you're not going to keep up with the competition, then how can you possibly win?  I guess winning means something different to everyone, but it would be hard for me to enter competitions knowing my best can't match their best, and that I had no chance of winning unless the other guys all screwed up.

[leopardprint]

8 minutes ago, greyhorse said:

 

So what is the explanation for why some men can do it and why some can't?  It must be just sheer speed, leg strength, and vertical jump, right?  Adam Rippon has been very open about the fact that he knows he can't compete because he doesn't have a quad.  And that the only way he could have medaled is if those attempting riskier quads all fell down, and then he would just slide in there with his safe triples.  That just doesn't seem like a great attitude.  I didn't know a thing about Adam Rippon until this Olympics, as I'm sure much of the country would say as well.  Has he tried a quad?  Has he failed miserably and just can't do it?  I think I read somewhere that he needed Brian Orser to help him with one of the triple jumps, so if that was a stretch to do, then no way he could do a quad?    If you're not going to keep up with the competition, then how can you possibly win?  I guess winning means something different to everyone, but it would be hard for me to enter competitions knowing my best can't match their best, and that I had no chance of winning unless the other guys all screwed up.

Isn’t Adam about 10 years older than Nathan and Vincent? I think he can be considered to be in overlap between this upcoming Quad generation and the previous one where they did one or two. 

Edited February 19, 2018 by leopardprint

[Growsonwalls]

Adam does have a beautiful quad lutz. He's just not consistent enough to compete it in an Olympic season. The issue with many of these jumps is consistency. For instance I wouldn't say Patrick Chan "has" a triple axel. He can occasionally land it but it's nowhere near consistent enough to say he "has" that jump. He only does it because it's a required element.

[Bosstonz16]

2 hours ago, Crs97 said:

Tortilla and Dean didn’t have to resort to the trope to be amazing.

This typo just made me spit out my water with laughter! I will call her Jane Tortilla from here on out now :-)

[CeeBeeGee]

3 hours ago, MaKaM said:

The hidden eating disorders might blow into something with Adam Rippon somewhat dragging it to light (eating disorders among the women, pairs, and dancers is an assumed given).

 

3 hours ago, GeminiDancer said:

I think right now with the Men it's the athletics v. artistry and the reliance on quads. Lysacek beating Plushenko was a huge deal, but it also meant that that was going to be the last time clean triples would beat messy quads. There's also the homophobia surrounding Men's figure skating (Johnny Weir gender identity being called into question because of how he carried himself).

Christopher Bowman was a one-man scandal industry all by himself.

 

1 hour ago, Kemper said:

I think it is disgraceful that judging is so slanted and political.  It makes me sad that usually, favored skaters/teams going in to the Olympics almost always win the medals.  A skater who comes in and does the performance of a lifetime sometimes has no chance.  Although I think about Sarah Hughes and Tara Lipinsky probably not being favorites.  But who knows, maybe they were.

Sarah and Tara definitely were not favorites, especially Sarah! That podium was expected to be Michelle, Irina and either Sasha or Sarah. Sarah finished the short in 4th position and had the skate of her life to end up with the gold--she was helped out by the ordinal system and the fact that the other three made errors. Tara was a favorite for silver but everyone expected Michelle to take gold if she skated cleanly, which she did. Christine Brennan wrote a great book, Edge of Glory, about the '97-'98 season and how bewildered everyone was at the results in Nagano.

 

34 minutes ago, HartofDixie said:

Debi Thomas

Jeez. How sad. It's clear she is still struggling. I think it's disgusting the bank took that medal from her, I don't care how much she owed. Debi is an icon. I wish I could buy it and give it back to her.

[selkie]

1 hour ago, kili said:

Starvation can also delay that without the drugs. The female gymnasts used to do that too. Some of those tricks get harder after you develop. That's part of the reason for the age limitations.

 

Yuila Lipnitskaya (the super-bendy girl in the red dress in Sochi) retired from the sport because of anorexia:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/29/yulia-lipnitskaya-russias-youngest-ever-winter-olympics-gold/

 

Quote

Photos of her being given a new flat in 2017 showed she had again gained weight, leading some social media users to wonder if she was pregnant. “Do I have to weigh 37 kilograms (82 pounds) for the rest of my life for you to be happy?” Ms Lipnitskaya responded.

Lipnitskaya's program height when she was competing was 5'3", and that's a pretty low weight for that height. 

[blackwing]

Very sad to read about Debi Thomas.  She says she doesn't care about material things but if she doesn't care, why is she trying so hard to make money with this Karat business? Selling tiny bits of gold to make money?  Is it supposed to be like bitcoin?

So sad that she suffered from mental illness and that this gun incident caused her to lose everything.  I feel really bad for her.  In 88 she was such a role model.  A minority athlete who was world class and at the top of her game, going to become a doctor.  Now... this.   I hope she is at peace, she says she doesn't care about the trailer but she also doesn't seem like she's all there.

[displayname]

I'm one of the few who didn't like Lipnitskaya's skating. Eteri Tutberidze's coaching is a horror story. Glad Yulia got away from her. There was an interview where she pretty much said that it was "difficult" for "weight to be maintained" or something, and that Yulia needed to be motivated to do so by eating snack bars or something.

[BitterApple]

Poor Debi. I can't imagine having such an insane combination of athletic talent and brains, only to completely fall apart. When you think about it, it's amazing she held up for as long as she did. Her entire life was nothing but constant work, pressure and stress. First, as an ice skater and then as a med student and doctor. I wonder if it eventually got to her and she cracked. 

[Crs97]

24 minutes ago, Bosstonz16 said:

 

2 hours ago, Crs97 said:

Tortilla and Dean didn’t have to resort to the trope to be amazing.

This typo just made me spit out my water with laughter! I will call her Jane Tortilla from here on out now :-)

 

Curse you, auto correct!! ?

[doodlebug]

59 minutes ago, greyhorse said:

 

So what is the explanation for why some men can do it and why some can't?  It must be just sheer speed, leg strength, and vertical jump, right?  Adam Rippon has been very open about the fact that he knows he can't compete because he doesn't have a quad. 

It seems like it's really important to start training quads at a young age, even for men.  Adam first learned to jump as a preteen/teen and nobody was doing quads back then, so, of course, he never learned them.  The ability to do the jumps relies a lot on muscle memory and the vast majority of elite skaters start developing that muscle memory as teens.  Adding that skill after the teen years is very difficult. Adam has a hard time learning quads because he's about a decade older than many of the guys he's competing against.  It's the old dog/new tricks thing. And, of course, just as in everything else, some skaters are just more talented at certain skills than others.

Adam does have a quad, but he cannot land it consistently enough to use it in competition.  Anticipating and then performing the quad skews a skater's mindset during their program and can throw off their whole performance.  Therefore, its better not to try at all than to risk falling on the quad and having the whole program fall apart, too.

 

Debi Thomas is a brilliant woman and was a terrific role model in her day.  Very sad to see how much she's been through.  BTW, I know someone who was present after she won the bronze.  Apparently, Debi's mother was the stage mother to end all stage mothers and had to be restrained from physically attacking her after she didn't win the gold.  Life hasn't been very kind to her.  I hope she finds some peace/gets some help.  At one point, she had set up a Go Fund Me type thing on line to try to pay her debts.  Very sad.

[kili]

Quote

Swimming also favors certain body types- look at Michael Phelps. I remember reading an article around the 08' Olympics that broke down how he won the genetic lottery when it came to his physical attributes that ended up helping him become an incredible swimmer. 

Yes. Having hands the size of dinner plates and feet that double as flippers definitely helps in the water.  He also has a "wingspan" that is 4 inches wider than his height (think of the famous Da Vinci drawing where the finger-tip to finger-tip distance is typically the same as your height). Likewise, marathon runners are often small and slight (helps to reduce the energy expanded) while rowers tend to be tall.  There are lots and lots of sports that favour a certain body type.

Earlier in this thread, somebody linked a post where Adam said that a coach once told him his body-type was more suited to speed skating. He tried dieting his way out of that body type, but you can't really do that. Speed skaters aren't fat, they are just built differently with powerful lower-halfs. Adam probably doesn't have a body-type for doing quads consistently. You pretty much have to be a bean-pole so that your center of gravity is right through your center. It's the physics of the problem. Just like divers who are taller than about 5'10" have trouble competing (all those three-D revolutions).

So, why compete if you know you can't win? Only one athlete every 4 years wins the men's Olympic Gold Medal. The others compete because they love the sport and they want to continue on with it. After their competition, they can be coaches (like Brian Orser), choreographers (like Christopher Dean), commentators (like Johnny Weir), sports officials, judges, etc. etc  etc. Reaching as high as you can will give you credentials for your future life. Would Adam have gotten offered a job to be an NBC commentator if he hadn't been an athlete at these Olympics? Probably not.

[HartofDixie]

44 minutes ago, CeeBeeGee said:

The hidden eating disorders might blow into something with Adam Rippon somewhat dragging it to light (eating disorders among the women, pairs, and dancers is an assumed given).

Even though the book was more about gymnastics "Little Girls in Pretty Boxes" did include skaters and their eating disorders.

 

46 minutes ago, CeeBeeGee said:

Sarah and Tara definitely were not favorites, especially Sarah! That podium was expected to be Michelle, Irina and either Sasha or Sarah. Sarah finished the short in 4th position and had the skate of her life to end up with the gold--she was helped out by the ordinal system and the fact that the other three made errors. Tara was a favorite for silver but everyone expected Michelle to take gold if she skated cleanly, which she did. Christine Brennan wrote a great book, Edge of Glory, about the '97-'98 season and how bewildered everyone was at the results in Nagano.

Wasn't their a rumor that they had Tara win because they wanted Michelle to stay until 2002?

 

34 minutes ago, fan94 said:

I'm one of the few who didn't like Lipnitskaya's skating. Eteri Tutberidze's coaching is a horror story. Glad Yulia got away from her. There was an interview where she pretty much said that it was "difficult" for "weight to be maintained" or something, and that Yulia needed to be motivated to do so by eating snack bars or something.

I fear Alina will go down the same path as Yulia.

[AshleyN]

This conversation on quads and body types is interesting to me because I remember Elvis Stojko, one of the original "quad kings" being kind of stocky looking. Was he just an exception to the rule then?

Edited February 19, 2018 by AshleyN

[Jeddah]

8 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

It seems like it's really important to start training quads at a young age, even for men.  Adam first learned to jump as a preteen/teen and nobody was doing quads back then, so, of course, he never learned them.  The ability to do the jumps relies a lot on muscle memory and the vast majority of elite skaters start developing that muscle memory as teens.  Adding that skill after the teen years is very difficult. Adam has a hard time learning quads because he's about a decade older than many of the guys he's competing against.  It's the old dog/new tricks thing. And, of course, just as in everything else, some skaters are just more talented at certain skills than others.

Male skaters were doing quads twenty years ago when Adam was learning his jumps. It’s definitely something any coach should have seen coming. If Adam or his coaches thought he’d never need a quad to be competitive, then they were not paying attention. I think it’s more likely he just couldn’t do them. Some people can, some people can’t. He decided to focus on other areas of his skating to try to make up for it, and that strategy was good enough to give him a decent skating career.

[Crs97]

Here is my unpopular opinion that might get me kicked out of here:  I didn’t have a problem with Tara winning gold in Nagano.  Both skated very, very well, but Michelle was a little tentative and Tara was fearless.  It could have gone either way that evening.  IMO Michelle peaked too early, skating perfectly at Nationals.  I was there, and she was sublime.  She lost just a little at the Olympics, and unfortunately it was just enough.

[displayname]

10 minutes ago, HartofDixie said:

I fear Alina will go down the same path as Yulia.

I think it's Evgenia. It's really sad.

[choclatechip45]

Re body types. My sister has a friend who was a competitive figure skater, not one of the type guys but skated in US junior championships a few times and one of his coaches told him to lose weight. Luckily his parents found and talked to the coaches. 

[mehtotheworld]

So it looks like ice dance drama doesn’t end even after you retire from competition! Meryl Davis asked for questions on Instagram and got a couple of V/M fans who took the Tessa & Scott reality show way too seriously. Truly both hilarious and awkward!

[Dots And Stripes]

6 minutes ago, Jeddah said:

Male skaters were doing quads twenty years ago when Adam was learning his jumps. It’s definitely something any coach should have seen coming. If Adam or his coaches thought he’d never need a quad to be competitive, then they were not paying attention. I think it’s more likely he just couldn’t do them. Some people can, some people can’t. He decided to focus on other areas of his skating to try to make up for it, and that strategy was good enough to give him a decent skating career.

He used to have at least one quad though. I think Scott Hamilton said that Adam was the first he saw to land a quad using one of the six take offs (I can't remember which one). 

As much as I've joked about Patrick getting four rotations before falling, that truly does seem to be a skill under the current points system. So is learning to all on a quad and then keep going without letting that mess up your next elements. I've heard Adam say he removed his quad because it wasn't consistent enough. I wonder if that meant he couldn't land it or if he was under rotating or if he kept messing up his other elements once he fell on a quad. 

[HartofDixie]

2 minutes ago, fan94 said:

I think it's Evgenia. It's really sad.

She's looking a lot thinner this season.

 

8 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

Here is my unpopular opinion that might get me kicked out of here:  I didn’t have a problem with Tara winning gold in Nagano.  Both skated very, very well, but Michelle was a little tentative and Tara was fearless.  It could have gone either way that evening.  IMO Michelle peaked too early, skating perfectly at Nationals.  I was there, and she was sublime.  She lost just a little at the Olympics, and unfortunately it was just enough.

I think it Michelle skated after Tara the result could have changed.  But I agree that she skated better at Nationals.

[displayname]

16 minutes ago, HartofDixie said:

She's looking a lot thinner this season.

 

I just don't get why there haven't been any investigations into the training conditions there after Yulia's interview.

[friendperidot]

Quote

  3 HOURS AGO, CRS97 SAID:

Tortilla and Dean didn’t have to resort to the trope to be amazing.

This typo just made me spit out my water with laughter! I will call her Jane Tortilla from here on out now :-)

I assumed auto correct, but I did laugh out loud at this.

[displayname]

33 minutes ago, Dots And Stripes said:

I wonder if that meant he couldn't land it or if he was under rotating or if he kept messing up his other elements once he fell on a quad. 

He falls, and under-rotates severely enough to warrant a downgrade to a triple.

 

So instead of 9.6 points for a fall on a quad lutz, he'd just get 3.9 for a fall as if it were a triple.

Edited February 19, 2018 by fan94

[specialj67]

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26 minutes ago, Dots And Stripes said:

I've heard Adam say he removed his quad because it wasn't consistent enough. I wonder if that meant he couldn't land it or if he was under rotating or if he kept messing up his other elements once he fell on a quad.

I don’t know if he has ever been able to land it totally clean in competition, when he manages to stay upright. At best he gets a two-foot/under-rotation and/ or downgrade on it. And since it usually did end in a splat, the mandatory deduction for that. It makes sense he’d want to scrap it for the Olympics and go clean, when the point value for a clean and well-executed, if easier, jump is worth as much as a failed quad lutz with loss of base points and GOE. Why risk a serious injury for an element he knows is highly unlikely to pay off and would not move him up much in this field of competitors?

[MaKaM]

19 minutes ago, PoshSprinkles said:

Same reason it took 20 years to finally put Larry Nassar behind bars- GOLD MEDALS. 

And Russian sports culture is different from the US. Being on ritalin in the US is fine, in Russia it is a HUGE deal. Like they think you must be dying if you are on it (because none of them are) while being on meldonium is no big thing. ETA: they are apparently also very used to being called fat and then when they become coaches, calling other people fat. Now maintaining a reasonable body weight is critical to safety in a lot of these sports (or better yet, a strength to weight ratio but that takes work and calculation so it is just easier to fat shame) but the old-school way of going about it is still in ascendance in Russia by all accounts.

Edited February 19, 2018 by MaKaM

[selkie]

44 minutes ago, fan94 said:

I just don't get why there haven't been any investigations into the training conditions there after Yulia's interview.

From what I've heard in other sports, Russia doesn't place a really high value on protecting the health of junior athletes in general. Some of the training volume numbers I've heard for young swimmers are pretty insane. And Eteri's girls get results on the global stage so for every one she drives from the sport, a dozen girls will try to take that training group place because they want to be a World or Olympic champion and they see it as their path. 

[Mellowyellow]

1 hour ago, Crs97 said:

Here is my unpopular opinion that might get me kicked out of here:  I didn’t have a problem with Tara winning gold in Nagano.  Both skated very, very well, but Michelle was a little tentative and Tara was fearless.  It could have gone either way that evening.  IMO Michelle peaked too early, skating perfectly at Nationals.  I was there, and she was sublime.  She lost just a little at the Olympics, and unfortunately it was just enough.

I watched that Olympics not knowing anything about either skater.

I thought Tara was fabulous and Michelle was so so. It made perfect sense to me that Tara won gold. It wasn't until years later that I realised this was quite a "thing" for people!