S02.E11: The Fifth Wheel

[MyAimIsTrue]

51 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Not to mention, one thing looked like a KFC container.  You're going to smell that.

Well, Kate did ask Toby to take out the garbage because "it smelled like ass" so perhaps it was from old stuff in the KFC container?

[screenaddict]

17 minutes ago, movingtargetgal said:

When I was 7 years old my pediatrician told my mother that I was getting fat and read her the riot act.  He told my mother she was a horrible parent because she allowed me to get fat.  My mother cried hysterically the whole drive home.  That doctor's appointment forever changed the relationship between my mother and me.  She obsessed about my weight and attempted to control EVERYTHING I ate.  She would weigh and measure my food at the dinner table in front of the rest of the family and would make me my own "special" low calorie meals.  For her my being fat was something for her to be ashamed.  For me food and my weight was the one thing I could control.  At the age of 13, my mother took me to a diet doctor who had an assembly line of a practice.  He put me and all of his patients on thyroid pills (no bloodwork), water pills and an "appetite suppressant" or as a later learned amphetamines.  I was going to jr, high with a bagged lunch that included a magic pill to take so I would not eat after school.  I did lose weight but was addicted to the "medicine" and my thyroid was damaged because you do not prescribe synthroid to someone who does not need it especially if she is going through puberty.  When I was thin my relationship with my mother was "healed" and for the first time since I was 7 I felt her love.  I was taken of the medication and I started to gain weight.  At that point she cut herself off from me emotionally, nothing I could ever do will be good enough because I am fat.   I was the first person in my family to go to college and grad school.  I have a good marriage to a wonderful man.  My sister barely finished high school and at the age of twenty was on to her second husband, who went to federal prison for drug dealing.  My sister is probably anorexic and has drug and alcohol issues.  My mother had to pay for boarding school for my niece and nephew because her addiction was so severe.  Yet in my mother's eyes I am the family embarrassment because you can hide addiction and other bad behavior but you can not hide that your daughter is fat, it stares at you in the face and can not be denied.  I still love my mother but she was so toxic to me that I cut her out of my life twelve years ago.  It was the best thing I could have done for myself.

This power struggle over food and weight goes on between so many mothers and daughters.  Rebecca is a loving mother and she does her best with Kate.  However, she is making things so much worse between her and Kate because of the way she is going about it.  She does not need to buy all the junk food, don't but fruit roll-ups just buy the fruit.  Why single Kate out?  It only damages their relationship.  I would love to see adult Kate in eating disorders therapy and have she and Rebecca in therapy together.  Rebecca has gone through the same type of mother/daughter food/weight battles with her own mother.  It would help them connect the dots on how/why food/weight became such an issue between them.....it is a generational issue and just maybe it can all stop with them. 

I hope this is allowed - I just want to hug you and tell you what I tell my own daughter, who has struggled with weight gain - you are so much more than a number on a scale. You are worthy of love because you are you, not because of what you weigh or whether you passed a test or landed a job. Everyone deserves at unconditional love from their parents.

Bringing it back to the Big Three - I think most young adults do go through a period where they question their upbringing. It's amazing how time and future experiences can shape those memories. I think Randall was onto something at the end.

[sigmaforce86]

15 hours ago, SnoGirl said:

Is it wrong that Im mad that they skipped the addict reveal with Kevin? Actually, I find it super ironic. We see all the details with Kate and Randall’s stories, but we’re just going to do a time jump right over Kevin’s addiction into therapy. I didnt need to see the judge sentencing him, but it would have been interesting to see Kevin admit it, and the reactions from him admitting it

Any other show this would be a problem but I figure it's This Is Us so we have a pretty good chance of a flashback at some point (along with flash forwards and flash sideways if they can manage it).

I'd like to say something smart or snarky or insightful but I don't know where to start.  I do have a new rule for watching - if you have a "mild" headache at 9pm save the show for another night.  By the time that therapy scene was over I had to find another tissue and could feel how that headache had expanded!

Sterling deserves all the recognition he's getting.  Justin deserves recognition too - I don't know if his character was more one note last year or he didn't have enough to do or he's just stepping up his acting (or a combo) but he is really, really bringing it lately.

So much Miguel insight in that bar scene and I liked it a lot although I never hated him so it didn't take much.  He seems very self aware and very calm or at least resigned about it.  Unless they're going to spring a surprise on us him being a bit of an outsider isn't affecting their marriage much.  Beth I don't get - she doesn't just dislike Kevin because of the DUI, we know from the way she acted at the Manny taping that she doesn't much like being around him.  But I don't feel like they've made it clear why - does she just see through his "actor mode ON" persona and has no patience for his BS, was he ruder to her or Randall than we know (we know they weren't "close" but as far as we can tell they tolerated each other as adults)?  Either her reactions to Kevin are over the top or we need just a little more of their relationship background when they were late 20's early 30's. to pull the story together.

The only thing I really didn't like, even though I love Kate Burton, was the therapist laying into Rebecca about not telling the kids the hereditary dangers in Jack's disease.  When you look at it as how the world was over 20 years ago; it was the early internet days so no Google at home, no easy access to the latest "data' AND that she's a lay person AND that Jack as far as we knew either wasn't aware or didn't share with her that he could pass this to his kids..............I think she put an awful lot at Rebecca's feet they way she challenged her about not warning the kids they had x% chance of this and y% chance of that.

[screenaddict]

I've watched many families struggle with the idea of having an addicted family member. It can be a such a threatening circumstance. An addicted family member can force others to looks at their own behaviors. It can suggest cracks in an otherwise good family dynamic. People play all sorts of emotional games with themselves and with the outside world to cover up for an addict. They can whitewash memories to create a family that was all sorts of perfect. They can play the denial or the blame game.

On the other hand, I know some great people who are also addicts. Some are recovering. Some are functioning. But at the end of the day, they're good, kind souls.

I was not a fan of the addiction storyline. I felt they were reaching for tropes. But I'm pleasantly surprised that they're getting down and dirty with it, and I hope they let the frayed threads stay frayed, without resolving everything in a Very Special Episode.

[ChicksDigScars]

1 hour ago, movingtargetgal said:

When I was 7 years old my pediatrician told my mother that I was getting fat and read her the riot act.  He told my mother she was a horrible parent because she allowed me to get fat.  My mother cried hysterically the whole drive home.  That doctor's appointment forever changed the relationship between my mother and me.  She obsessed about my weight and attempted to control EVERYTHING I ate.  She would weigh and measure my food at the dinner table in front of the rest of the family and would make me my own "special" low calorie meals.  For her my being fat was something for her to be ashamed.  For me food and my weight was the one thing I could control.  At the age of 13, my mother took me to a diet doctor who had an assembly line of a practice.  He put me and all of his patients on thyroid pills (no bloodwork), water pills and an "appetite suppressant" or as a later learned amphetamines.  I was going to jr, high with a bagged lunch that included a magic pill to take so I would not eat after school.  I did lose weight but was addicted to the "medicine" and my thyroid was damaged because you do not prescribe synthroid to someone who does not need it especially if she is going through puberty.  When I was thin my relationship with my mother was "healed" and for the first time since I was 7 I felt her love.  I was taken of the medication and I started to gain weight.  At that point she cut herself off from me emotionally, nothing I could ever do will be good enough because I am fat.   I was the first person in my family to go to college and grad school.  I have a good marriage to a wonderful man.  My sister barely finished high school and at the age of twenty was on to her second husband, who went to federal prison for drug dealing.  My sister is probably anorexic and has drug and alcohol issues.  My mother had to pay for boarding school for my niece and nephew because her addiction was so severe.  Yet in my mother's eyes I am the family embarrassment because you can hide addiction and other bad behavior but you can not hide that your daughter is fat, it stares at you in the face and can not be denied.  I still love my mother but she was so toxic to me that I cut her out of my life twelve years ago.  It was the best thing I could have done for myself.

Wow. I didn't know my mother had a second family....my mom even bought me diet pills and an unlimited supply of Tab when I was a teen. and threw a holy fit when I got a job at a frozen custard stand in high school, telling me that if I worked there, that I would be required to bike the five miles to and from work, unless it was after dark.  I just shrugged that one off. I always biked in and out of town, anyway, since all my friends lived there.  But, there were times that I biked back and forth from work in a thunder storm on a two lane highway with a 55 mph speed limit.  Uphill.  (that last one is a joke)

I see a lot of Rebecca's obsession with Kate's weight in my own life. My mom even looked the other way when I developed bulimia in college, because hey....it worked.  And yeah, my relationship with her never healed.  We spoke and associated, but I cried more when my dog died.  Rebecca's obsession with Kate's weight is a trip to Disney compared to being called "Packy," short for Pachyderm, by your own mother.  I don't recall Rebecca ever being shown as resorting to name calling and fat shaming, or secretly taking in Kate's clothes so that she'll think that she gained weight, freak out, and go on a crash diet (yeah, my mom did that. I was a 120 pound high school cheerleader at the time). So, yeah, sometimes I also dislike Kate for the way she blames her mother for everything, as well.  Rebecca is relatively tame, and hardly to blame for Kate becoming so large.  Kate relied on her food addiction for comfort after losing Jack, more so IMO than Rebecca watching what Kate ate and trying to help her make good choices, and....gasp....being pretty, herself.  Yet, who gets the blame? Once again, the mother. The Bad Cop. 

My opinion of Kevin is clouded by the fact that I never liked the character from the beginning. Selfish, immature, self-absorbed, given everything while growing up, yet it's still never enough. Out of the Big Three, who has had the most privilege in his life? The white male super jock who grew up to be a beef cake actor? The obese, self-conscious, bullied by kids in school, white female? Or is it the adopted black male, who is different from everyone in the family, and was sent to a different school than his siblings, albeit for a GOOD reason, but was just another thing that amplified how different he was than the rest of his family.  Yes, his parents seemed to worry less about Kevin,  which he uses as a way to play victim, but who had the easier time growing up? My guess is the white male jock turned pampered actor.  None of the Big Three are portrayed as growing up in a perfect situation. And their parents (especially Rebecca) are not portrayed as being perfect parents. Jack's faults are mentioned, but they're hidden behind the fact that he died tragically young, so, he's been canonized.

And I still think that Ellis Grey is a sucktastic therapist.  Is that how it goes? Attack the mother until she breaks down and sobs uncontrollably so that your addict client has his pound of flesh to blame for everything? Rather than forcing him to look in a mirror and take some of the blame upon himself? Oh, bravo, Ellis! 

And this:

Quote

The only thing I really didn't like, even though I love Kate Burton, was the therapist laying into Rebecca about not telling the kids the hereditary dangers in Jack's disease.  When you look at it as how the world was over 20 years ago; it was the early internet days so no Google at home, no easy access to the latest "data' AND that she's a lay person AND that Jack as far as we knew either wasn't aware or didn't share with her that he could pass this to his kids..............I think she put an awful lot at Rebecca's feet they way she challenged her about not warning the kids they had x% chance of this and y% chance of that.

Exactly.  She wasn't a therapist. She was an advocate for Kevin.  Allowing him to go into attack mode while silencing the others.

But yeah, it was still a great episode! LOL. We wouldn't be dissecting it so much if it wasn't this believable, identifiable and didn't hit home for so many of us. 

Edited January 10, 2018 by ChicksDigScars

[Lady Calypso]

7 minutes ago, ChicksDigScars said:

And I still think that Ellis Grey is a sucktastic therapist.  Is that how it goes? Attack the mother until she breaks down and sobs uncontrollably so that your addict client has his pound of flesh to blame for everything? Rather than forcing him to look in a mirror and take some of the blame upon himself? Oh, bravo, Ellis! 

Well, Ellis Grey didn't do anything but ask some of the more hard hitting questions. She DID let the family know that they would have to talk about Jack's death and addiction issues. We also don't know what other things she talked about with Kevin; we're not only missing a month of Kevin's rehabilitation, but this therapy session was only about Kevin getting to talk to his immediate family about how he was feeling. She wouldn't allow him to be "fake nice", as I think she put it. I think her ultimate goal WAS to push through the fake emotions to get to the real ones. Yes, it was messy and somewhat cruel, but it was real and raw, and I think that was the entire point. You can't get down to the real issues if you're worried about being polite and not being honest. And doing it in a safe space like that allowed for some real emotion to be pushed to the surface on all ends. Randall got to express his anger, for example. Sure, it pushed Rebecca to be sobbing at the end of the session, but that was the point. It got her to feel some emotions she probably was pushing down for years. That's what therapy is supposed to do; get to the root of the problem and not be afraid to deal with it. 

Personally, this was only the start of what this family needs. This therapy session was mostly about Kevin, since this was his court ordered rehabiliation, which seems to include a mandatory family therapy session. They really should be continuing some therapy, where all of them get to air out their issues with each other. I'd love to see more of Kate's perspective in terms of the family dynamic. I'd love to hear how Randall felt about being the adopted black boy in a white family. I'd also love to hear about how Rebecca felt after Jack's death and how it affected her relationships with her children. 

16 minutes ago, ChicksDigScars said:

My opinion of Kevin is clouded by the fact that I never liked the character from the beginning. Selfish, immature, self-absorbed, given everything while growing up, yet it's still never enough. Out of the Big Three, who has had the most privilege in his life? The white male super jock who grew up to be a beef cake actor? The obese, self-conscious, bullied by kids in school, white female? Or is it the adopted black male, who is different from everyone in the family, and was sent to a different school than his siblings, albeit for a GOOD reason, but was just another thing that amplified how different he was than the rest of his family.  Yes, his parents seemed to worry less about Kevin,  which he uses as a way to play victim, but who had the easier time growing up? My guess is the white male jock turned pampered actor.  None of the Big Three are portrayed as growing up in a perfect situation. And their parents (especially Rebecca) are not portrayed as being perfect parents. Jack's faults are mentioned, but they're hidden behind the fact that he died tragically young, so, he's been canonized.

I think that is on the similar level of Randall and Beth's thinking as well. How can Kevin, a straight white rich man with so many more privileges than the others, have issues? He's just selfish, self absorbed, and looking for attention. His issues aren't as big as Randall's or Kate's. But...isn't that precisely the point Kevin was trying to make? That Kate and Randall's problems were bigger so Kevin's were ignored? He was given material things, absolutely, and he was cared for, but from his perspective, he wasn't given the attention that Kate and Randall were. It would be easy to think that Randall was the outsider in the family because he wasn't the biological child, but maybe Kevin was. Kevin's feelings are valid and I think it's easier to sympathize if you see things from Kevin's perspective, which isn't always easy. As someone who's heard similar things that Kevin has, I relate to him and see why he feels the way that he feels. He has his own perspective that is perfectly valid. Kevin's crave for attention because of how he felt he was treated in the family is clouded by his career, the number of women he's been with, and his fame. 

And it is a chicken and the egg scenario. Did he act out because he felt like his parents didn't put him first over his siblings and it was the only way to get their attention? Or did his parents find it difficult to put him first as it was hard to connect with him because he acted out and mouthed off at them? Which overpowers the other, in this scenario? Either way, what Kevin has felt his entire life has affected him up until this point. Maybe his problems aren't as big as Randall's or Kate's. But that's precisely why Rebecca and Jack paid more attention to them, as they believed that Kevin was just fine. 

[RedbirdNelly]

I can't really add to what has already been stated. I loved this episode. I loved the opening scene between Randall and Beth--they made me laugh--I love them as a couple. The bench make-up scene made me teary but happy. The end with Rebecca and Kevin had me sobbing. I don't (believe) I have issues with my growing boys, but I nonetheless gave the oldest a big hug as soon as I finished watching. He responded to my hug and sniffles with "Mom, have you been watching This Is Us again??" Yes, yes, I have.

[ChicksDigScars]

But what are they supposed to do?  One child doesn't have as many problems, soooooo?  If they were giving Randall and Kate more attention, because they had issues that Kevin didn't, are they supposed to make up a reason to give Kevin more special attention? He wasn't neglected. He had a father who tossed a football in the yard with him, parents who paid for football camps and who went to every game and video taped him.  They proudly referred to him as "Number One," the leader of the pack. Kevin had a pretty sweet life.  So did the other two. As far as being an outsider, all three have been shown to feel that way at one time or another.  Kate being bullied and left out by girls at school because of her weight, or girls only coming to her birthday party to get close to her more popular hot brother (the put upon Kevin).  Their grandmother referred to her grandchildren as "The Twins and Randall."  Randall was the outsider because of his skin color to his own grandmother, despite begging for her affection.  Plus, there's the whole "lying about knowing your bio-dad" thing. They all have grievances. 

Edited January 10, 2018 by ChicksDigScars

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, ChicksDigScars said:

My opinion of Kevin is clouded by the fact that I never liked the character from the beginning. Selfish, immature, self-absorbed, given everything while growing up, yet it's still never enough. Out of the Big Three, who has had the most privilege in his life? The white male super jock who grew up to be a beef cake actor? The obese, self-conscious, bullied by kids in school, white female? Or is it the adopted black male, who is different from everyone in the family, and was sent to a different school than his siblings, albeit for a GOOD reason, but was just another thing that amplified how different he was than the rest of his family.  Yes, his parents seemed to worry less about Kevin,  which he uses as a way to play victim, but who had the easier time growing up? My guess is the white male jock turned pampered actor.  None of the Big Three are portrayed as growing up in a perfect situation. And their parents (especially Rebecca) are not portrayed as being perfect parents. Jack's faults are mentioned, but they're hidden behind the fact that he died tragically young, so, he's been canonized.

Yeah, I tend toward this view of Kevin.  I keep going back to when he said "I should have been the star of this family."  He had a deep resentment of Randall that he's begun to overcome, and that's progress.  Good that he got honest with Rebecca and even better that she heard him.  I think Kevin has been arrested in his emotional development to a much greater degree than Kate or Randall.  I think it's partly because he had a rockier relationship with Jack right before he died than the other kids did.  Kate has voiced guilt about being the cause of Jack's death, but I see Kevin as full of regret, too. 

[pricklypear]

I would like, at some point, for the show to explore Rebecca's issues with Jack. Last night wasn't the first time she has referred to him as "perfect," which to me is strange. I adore my husband. He is an amazing husband and father. By no means have I ever seen him as perfect. I also wonder what she means by one of them "abandoning" her after their father died. Weren't they 17? That is just about the age that they would start flying the coop. One of them was bound to have plans to travel/go to college out of state/move away, whether their father had lived or died.

My mother had borderline and narcissistic personality disorders. She had abandonment issues (i.e., making any of her kids feel guilty upon the slightest hint of wanting to move out, even when we were of the normal age that kids start talking about those kinds of things), and she once declared my little brother as "perfect," and that we weren't allowed to bug/harass him (guess what kind of speech that inspires siblings to do?). My brother told me fairly recently that he always resented her for that. Being labeled "perfect" not only made him a target for his siblings, but it laid an impossible amount of expectation for him to live up to.

Not saying Rebecca has personality disorders, but her idealization of her husband is a little off to me.

[Cardie]

5 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

nobody runs after Kevin

A perfect counterpart to Everybody Loves Raymond.

[Katy M]

23 minutes ago, pricklypear said:

I would like, at some point, for the show to explore Rebecca's issues with Jack. Last night wasn't the first time she has referred to him as "perfect," which to me is strange. I adore my husband. He is an amazing husband and father. By no means have I ever seen him as perfect.

Your husband's not dead.  I do think there is a tendency to romanticize people after they die.  You remember their good points and push down their bad.  It's not necessarily a bad thing unless you turn it into a worship and a way to push everyone else down by comparison.

[pricklypear]

6 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Your husband's not dead.  I do think there is a tendency to romanticize people after they die.  You remember their good points and push down their bad.  It's not necessarily a bad thing unless you turn it into a worship and a way to push everyone else down by comparison.

I totally agree. She did call him a "superhero" to her band mate, too, though. I get that she was mad at the guy who was hitting on her at the time, and I think she was right to tell him off, but I think there was a little bit of idealizing when he was alive, too, which became even more magnified after he died.

[Lady Calypso]

1 hour ago, ChicksDigScars said:

But what are they supposed to do?  One child doesn't have as many problems, soooooo?  If they were giving Randall and Kate more attention, because they had issues that Kevin didn't, are they supposed to make up a reason to give Kevin more special attention? He wasn't neglected. He had a father who tossed a football in the yard with him, parents who paid for football camps and who went to every game and video taped him.  They proudly referred to him as "Number One," the leader of the pack. Kevin had a pretty sweet life.  So did the other two. As far as being an outsider, all three have been shown to feel that way at one time or another.  Kate being bullied and left out by girls at school because of her weight, or girls only coming to her birthday party to get close to her more popular hot brother (the put upon Kevin).  Their grandmother referred to her grandchildren as "The Twins and Randall."  Randall was the outsider because of his skin color to his own grandmother, despite begging for her affection.  Plus, there's the whole "lying about knowing your bio-dad" thing. They all have grievances. 

I think that human emotions can be complicated and messy. I know I grew up in a very privileged household and know how lucky I was to have parents to provide for me and my sister and who loved us. But my sister? She had a different experience in that she doesn't feel like I do, that she felt like our parents didn't give her much and that I was favourited over her. Sure, it would be easy to dismiss her issues and tell her that she should be lucky to have gotten what she wanted, but it doesn't fix those deep rooted problems she has and that have affected many of her romantic relationships over the years, as well as her relationship with our father. And that doesn't even get into the fact that we're both adopted. And even for me, I'm like Kevin where my problems aren't easily seen and may be misconstrued as whiny, lazy, or selfish, but they are issues that have been building up and that, despite everything, despite how lucky I know I am, despite the life I grew up in, I can't help but feel the way that I feel, just like Kevin can't help the way that he feels, and those are issues he hasn't dealt with. He may know that his father was at all of his football games, but what seems to be going on in Kevin's head is about how much attention was paid to him. Which may not be fair, which may be miniscule and petty. But hey, it's real to Kevin. And the major issue is that he didn't talk about his own issues with his parents. Kate and Randall did, while Kevin bottled up his issues. Much like how Jack tended to bottle up his issues and try to deal with it by himself.

I think all that Kevin wanted was more moments where his parents put him first over Randall and Kate; not the general moments, but the moments where it counted for him. Sure, it may be unfair and it may be selfish of Kevin, but I think it's realistic and relatable, at least to me. And I think the show has done a decent job to show that Rebecca and Jack did have their favourites, and that Kevin wasn't number one in terms of their parents' affection. They were more numbered due to who came into the Pearson world first, second, and third. But Randall came first for Rebecca, and Kate came first for Jack. I think Kevin, as a kid, just wanted himself to come first, to have those moments with his parents like his siblings did. But the longer he didn't feel like he got it, the more bitter and resentful he got, which led to him lashing out and Rebecca/Jack growing more distant with Kevin.

Like I said, human emotions are complicated and messy. Sometimes, people really can't help feeling the way that they do, but that can lead to a complicated road. 

[ChicksDigScars]

4 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

They were more numbered due to who came into the Pearson world first, second, and third. But Randall came first for Rebecca, and Kate came first for Jack. I think Kevin, as a kid, just wanted himself to come first, to have those moments with his parents like his siblings did. But the longer he didn't feel like he got it, the more bitter and resentful he got, which led to him lashing out and Rebecca/Jack growing more distant with Kevin.

Like I said, human emotions are complicated and messy. Sometimes, people really can't help feeling the way that they do, but that can lead to a complicated road. 

Oh sure, it's a given that they are called "Number One, Two and Three" due to birth order, but if you're called "Number One" your whole life, or have to listen as your sibling is referred to as "Number One," it can seem like a subliminal ranking system.  Wasn't there a scene in which they filmed Kevin taking his first steps, and made a huge deal about "Number One is first again," as if leading the pack? He was unintentionally cast as the leader. And he never saw that. 

And truthfully, would you want to be referred to as "Number Two" your whole life?  Talk about shitty self esteem...so to speak. 

[Lady Calypso]

5 minutes ago, ChicksDigScars said:

Oh sure, it's a given that they are called "Number One, Two and Three" due to birth order, but if you're called "Number One" your whole life, or have to listen as your sibling is referred to as "Number One," it can seem like a subliminal ranking system.  Wasn't there a scene in which they filmed Kevin taking his first steps, and made a huge deal about "Number One is first again," as if leading the pack? He was unintentionally cast as the leader. And he never saw that. 

And truthfully, would you want to be referred to as "Number Two" your whole life?  Talk about shitty self esteem...so to speak. 

Personally, having a numbered nickname is condescending as hell, and I would absolutely hate it. I already cringe whenever my mom comes up with a new animal-esuque nickname (it used to be Puppy and now it's Bumblebee for some odd reason). I think, if any of the three had their choice, they probably would have opted against those nicknames. Those types of nicknames do, really, create a ranking system and I'm sure it partly did ingrain some sort of complex into all of them a little bit. Those nicknames simply aren't cute. I mean, Kevin's nicknamed Number One but is he really Number One? I'm sure Kate wonders why she has to be nicknamed Number Two since it's not memorable like One or Three (for Big Three). And I'm sure Randall deep down resents being called Number Three because it implies being last to Kevin and Kate. This is why the Big Three stuff is cute on paper but leads down a slippery slope, especially with this show intent on showing realism. 

This could all be stuff that is discussed if the family ever goes to another therapy session.

On another note, I'm glad we haven't heard the Big Three chant since episode 2 of season 1. That's nice. 

[ShadowFacts]

Dear Toby:  When you are shown a picture of your girlfriend's beloved late father, commenting that he looks like a porn star seemed like a good idea, why? 

[Lady Calypso]

I'm rewatching again, and I did suddenly realize that Kevin missed not only Thanksgiving, but Christmas as well. Getting arrested a couple of days before Thanksgiving and then likely going into rehab not too long after? Damn, the holidays must have been rough for the entire family. I guess there was no Pilgrim Rick this year, unless Miguel got to be Pilgrim Rick without any complaints. 

[Katy M]

5 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I'm rewatching again, and I did suddenly realize that Kevin missed not only Thanksgiving, but Christmas as well. Getting arrested a couple of days before Thanksgiving and then likely going into rehab not too long after? Damn, the holidays must have been rough for the entire family. I guess there was no Pilgrim Rick this year, unless Miguel got to be Pilgrim Rick without any complaints. 

Did he go to rehab immediately, or did he wait until after he was sentenced?  I can't imagine him getting a court date until at least 2 or 3 weeks after the incident.  But, I also can't imagine him being welcome in Beth and Randall's home so soon after the incident either.  So, yeah, he probably missed both.

[Lady Calypso]

Oh, also something else I noticed: later in the episode, when Rebecca is telling Kevin through her tears about it being harder to love Kevin because he recoils at her touch, I didn't even realize they showed this earlier in the episode, when they all first arrived at the rehab center and Rebecca goes to touch Kevin's face. 

Plus, Kevin's therapist did say that for their "first" session, which does seem to imply that there could be more future family therapy sessions. 

2 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Did he go to rehab immediately, or did he wait until after he was sentenced?  I can't imagine him getting a court date until at least 2 or 3 weeks after the incident.  But, I also can't imagine him being welcome in Beth and Randall's home so soon after the incident either.  So, yeah, he probably missed both.

It probably wasn't immediate, but Kate said that she hadn't talked to Kevin in over a month, and I assume this episode roughly takes place in real time. He probably was arrested, charged, and had a court date not long after. Honestly, I'm willing to bet they didn't really have a Thanksgiving after Kevin's arrest, or they postponed it. I'm thinking that Kevin probably just hit the 30 day mark in rehab, which is why they were going to attend his therapy session. 

[mommalib]

I admit that Kevin is an addict. But beyond that he is a white male privileged attention whore. And the way he was a dick to Randall throughout their life while Randall tried to reach out to him it's a miracle that Randall deals with him as adults. And yes Randall has flaws of course and one of them is making selfish decisions, but the thing is he is usually trying to do something good and usually for someone else.

Edited January 10, 2018 by mommalib

[Aloeonatable]

Quote

--And do we ever see Jack’s alcoholism affecting his roles as the “perfect” husband and father? Even Rebecca called him perfect during Kevin’s therapy session.

I believe it was the second episode of the first season that we first learned of Jack's alcoholism. When he came home after spending time with Miguel at a bar, Rebecca told him that she wouldn't tolerate his drinking and neglect in "her" house. That was when we saw Jack promise to change for her and his family. That was the first time, but then he relapsed. 

[PRgal]

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

Personally, having a numbered nickname is condescending as hell, and I would absolutely hate it. I already cringe whenever my mom comes up with a new animal-esuque nickname (it used to be Puppy and now it's Bumblebee for some odd reason). I think, if any of the three had their choice, they probably would have opted against those nicknames. Those types of nicknames do, really, create a ranking system and I'm sure it partly did ingrain some sort of complex into all of them a little bit. Those nicknames simply aren't cute. I mean, Kevin's nicknamed Number One but is he really Number One? I'm sure Kate wonders why she has to be nicknamed Number Two since it's not memorable like One or Three (for Big Three). And I'm sure Randall deep down resents being called Number Three because it implies being last to Kevin and Kate. This is why the Big Three stuff is cute on paper but leads down a slippery slope, especially with this show intent on showing realism. 

This could all be stuff that is discussed if the family ever goes to another therapy session.

On another note, I'm glad we haven't heard the Big Three chant since episode 2 of season 1. That's nice. 

Ohhhh...that's common in some cultures!  My grandmother, being the third child, was called "Sam Gah Jeh" (Third (Older) Sister - even though the second child was a boy) by her younger siblings.  I guess two older sibs called her "Sam Mui Mui" or Third (Younger) Sister.  And animal nicknames...for the LONGEST TIME, I thought my mom's name for me "Joo Jai" meant "Little Pearl."  In my 20s, I finally asked, and she said it was Piglet (they're homophones)!  I suppose being a Winnie the Pooh namesake isn't THAT bad?  I still want to pretend that she meant Little Pearl. 

Re Kevin:  I don't think he was all that loved, from what I have seen.  Maybe it's his attitude, but is it HOW his parents treated him that caused it or vice versa?  His tantrum in therapy SAID EVERYTHING.  I don't care what people here have to say about his (perceived) privilege.  He may have it, but not everyone who LOOKS like they have privilege actually HAVE privilege, whether it be education, health (e.g. Kevin with his addiction, which really causes a lot of his messes), social class, etc... And many people who actually HAVE privilege aren't perceived to do so (e.g. Randall on the show - you can't say that he and Beth are "disadvantaged" from a social class perspective and as a visible minority myself, I REALLY RESENT IT when mainstream media imply that all minorities are "disadvantaged" in every single way).   

[Miss Dee]

It hit me today this episode gives new meaning to the phrase "Jack Pearson's Son." Oh, Kevin.

[Lady Calypso]

2 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

Dear Toby:  When you are shown a picture of your girlfriend's beloved late father, commenting that he looks like a porn star seemed like a good idea, why? 

Toby's always making inappropriate jokes, so at least this is consistent with his character. He does emphasize that this happened when him and Kate were still new in their relationship, so either before Toby learned about Jack's death, or shortly afterward, when he was unaware of how affected Kate really is about him. He probably thought it was a funny thing to joke about, but he seemed to have learned his lesson. I did get a chuckle out of the No Fly Zone part regardless.

Rewatching the therapy scene, it's interesting to see Randall completely tear into Kevin. He doesn't even bother to hold back. I don't think we even got to see Randall even try to be supportive of Kevin. He's being as passive aggressive as Beth in the entire episode, choosing to stay silent or say his passive aggressive "we're here for you", which he already expressed is code for "I'm pissed at you". But Randall does know where to dig in. I think it's all this unresolved anger from how Kevin treated him, which is why I can't be too upset, but it's still upsetting to hear him. And especially for it to be started because Randall was defending Rebecca. 

In a span of a minute, Randall calls Kevin spoiled, expresses that he actually might have wanted Kevin to go to jail, blames Kevin for endangering Tess, called him a whiner about his childhood and basically calls him a liar, and then basically called him stupid. I mean, clearly all of that was stuff that had been building up, long before Kevin's arrest. 

I actually enjoyed that he did that because they allowed Randall to have his flaws being shown front and center in that moment. It's refreshing after we get Saint Jack forced down our throats; even when Jack has flaws, they're not that bad and he can overcome them and look how awesome he is! So, in that sense, I liked seeing that side of Randall. It made him feel human. 

[Clanstarling]

5 hours ago, MyAimIsTrue said:

Well, Kate did ask Toby to take out the garbage because "it smelled like ass" so perhaps it was from old stuff in the KFC container?

Kate asking him to take it out seemed odd to me (who has had, upon occasion a secret "drawer of shame" for my binging) - seems like she'd be careful enough to take it out herself, or at least disguise it a bit better - you can see things like the KFC logo through those plastic bags. 

4 hours ago, sigmaforce86 said:

The only thing I really didn't like, even though I love Kate Burton, was the therapist laying into Rebecca about not telling the kids the hereditary dangers in Jack's disease.  When you look at it as how the world was over 20 years ago; it was the early internet days so no Google at home, no easy access to the latest "data' AND that she's a lay person AND that Jack as far as we knew either wasn't aware or didn't share with her that he could pass this to his kids..............I think she put an awful lot at Rebecca's feet they way she challenged her about not warning the kids they had x% chance of this and y% chance of that.

Addiction isn't new. The Vietnam generation knew quite a bit about it and certainly knew that addictive behavior could run in families, even before the internet. I knew (and was warned) about the alcoholism in my family, and knew people with alcoholics as parents who chose not to ever take a drink in their lives (at that time). So yeah, Rebecca could have told them, but I completely understand why she wouldn't address it, especially after his death. That rings true emotionally to me.  

2 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Personally, having a numbered nickname is condescending as hell, and I would absolutely hate it. I already cringe whenever my mom comes up with a new animal-esuque nickname (it used to be Puppy and now it's Bumblebee for some odd reason).

I cringe when Rebecca calls Kate "Bug." The only nicknames I ever gave my kids were based on their names, and I don't use them now that they're grown.

The sanctification of Jack has bothered me from the beginning of the show. Yes, dying suddenly does tend to smooth over the bad spots, but it was going on while he was alive. Plus, he's demonstrably not a saint. I guess I'm not that forgiving a person - but then I don't ever think anyone is a saint. It might be a family thing.  When my Mom was on her death bed, she looked at my brother and me and said "you were pretty good kids" - her last word on the subject, and she wouldn't say we were "great" kids, or the "best". We had a good laugh over that one. Then I used her words for my brother's eulogy. 

[mommalib]

And why did Kevin take all his anger out on Randall not on Kate at all. I get the feeling that because Kevin is the white biological child and Randall is the different one maybe Kevin felt he should take priority over Randall.

[Clanstarling]

1 minute ago, Lady Calypso said:

But Randall does know where to dig in.

That's the worst part of fighting with people you know well. You know all the vulnerable points, and can do real damage when you let loose.

[After7Only]

15 minutes ago, PRgal said:

Re Kevin:  I don't think he was all that loved, from what I have seen.  Maybe it's his attitude, but is it HOW his parents treated him that caused it or vice versa?  His tantrum in therapy SAID EVERYTHING.  I don't care what people here have to say about his (perceived) privilege.  He may have it, but not everyone who LOOKS like they have privilege actually HAVE privilege, whether it be education, health (e.g. Kevin with his addiction, which really causes a lot of his messes), social class, etc... And many people who actually HAVE privilege aren't perceived to do so (e.g. Randall on the show - you can't say that he and Beth are "disadvantaged" from a social class perspective and as a visible minority myself, I REALLY RESENT IT when mainstream media imply that all minorities are "disadvantaged" in every single way).   

I don't think we've seen anything that shown us Kevin wasn't "that loved" by his parents.  What we've seen are 2 parents who were doing their best to raise 3 kids who all happen to be the same age .  They made sacrifices for his well being.  Supported him in everything he did.  Sent him to football camp and made him homemade personalized Halloween costumes, lol...   They were never abusive towards him .  Didn't purposely withhold affection from him.  He just didn't get as much individual attention from his parents as Randall and Kate received.    It's a legitimate complaint/issue.    It helps us understand why Kevin does what he does, but it's not an excuse for why he does what he does.

A true discussion on privilege would take far more time and space than this forum allows.  But to discuss someone having privilege does not mean that privilege will protect them from all hardships in life.    Just as lack of privilege does not mean a person cannot be successful.  It does mean that there are certain things a straight white, good looking man in America are less likely to have to deal with.   Kevin is not going to be followed in a store or have store employees assume he couldn't afford things like Randall was.  Kevin's neighbors would not be overly concerned if they saw his father walking around the neighborhood, like Randall's were.  

[MissLucas]

5 minutes ago, mommalib said:

And why did Kevin take all his anger out on Randall not on Kate at all. I get the feeling that because Kevin is the white biological child and Randall is the different one maybe Kevin felt he should take priority over Randall.

Same-sex siblings tend to be harsher towards each other than with siblings of the opposite sex.

[ShadowFacts]

2 minutes ago, After7Only said:

A true discussion on privilege would take far more time and space than this forum allows.  But to discuss someone having privilege does not mean that privilege will protect them from all hardships in life.    Just as lack of privilege does not mean a person cannot be successful.  It does mean that there are certain things a straight white, good looking man in America are less likely to have to deal with.   Kevin is not going to be followed in a store or have store employees assume he couldn't afford things like Randall was.  Kevin's neighbors would not be overly concerned if they saw his father walking around the neighborhood, like Randall's were.  

So true.  And in Kevin's case, he actually acknowledges he has benefited, at least I see it that way.  In the episode where he drunkenly breaks down on the football field, he says words to the effect that he can commit shabby behavior and people clamor for more.  I see him as pretty much awash in privilege. 

[Lady Calypso]

3 minutes ago, mommalib said:

And why did Kevin take all his anger out on Randall not on Kate at all. I get the feeling that because Kevin is the white biological child and Randall is the different one maybe Kevin felt he should take priority over Randall.

Possibly. Kid Kevin was clearly looking to take his anger out on someone, and it was always Randall. That's something that's been implied, but never outright stated. It could very well be because Randall's the adopted one. It could be that Randall was seemingly perfect and never got in trouble. Maybe Kevin was more interested in getting Rebecca's attention but she was always more interested in Randall. But it's likely because of Randall being adopted. Maybe Kevin's friends helped ingrain the hatred into his head, because kids can be quite cruel to anyone different. But whatever it was, it was something that stuck with Kevin straight into adulthood, though I do think he toned it down more over time and that anger dissipated. It obviously didn't go away, but he didn't seem to resent him as much. 

2 minutes ago, After7Only said:

I don't think we've seen anything that shown us Kevin wasn't "that loved" by his parents.  What we've seen are 2 parents who were doing their best to raise 3 kids who all happen to be the same age .  They made sacrifices for his well being.  Supported him in everything he did.  Sent him to football camp and made him homemade personalized Halloween costumes, lol...   They were never abusive towards him .  Didn't purposely withhold affection from him.  He just didn't get as much individual attention from his parents as Randall and Kate received.    It's a legitimate complaint/issue.    It helps us understand why Kevin does what he does, but it's not an excuse for why he does what he does.

I agree with this. I think Kevin was loved by his parents, and I think they did try to make him happy. But here's the thing about happiness: sometimes, material happiness isn't what someone really wants. Kevin might have gotten football camp and all that, and he might have been lucky to have his mother make his Halloween costumes and have his dad attend his football games. But clearly, Kevin has his mind on the attention he didn't get, especially in comparison to Kate and Randall. He sees the negative side, the times his dad wasn't there, or the times his mom didn't put him first. Those are the moments that Kevin reflects on and wants more of. And that's not a bad thing, because he isn't wrong. 

And yes, how Kevin treats people is really important, and he's not treated people very well. It's why I'm hoping this arc will help him become a better person. He's really not a bad guy; he still has a heart and he doesn't treat people completely disrespectfully. He's been a good uncle to Tess and Annie, he's been a supportive brother to Kate, and he's shown signs that, once he gets past his issues, he'll continue to be a good person. Even when he's been drunk and high, he's still been able to snap back when he goes too far (the drunk driving aside, he did have a sound enough mind to recognize Tess was in the car and slow down/tell her to put on her seatbelt). He could have been meaner, more destructive, basically the worst kind of person, but because he isn't gives some hope that he can be better and make amends for all his wrongdoings, even if they're 30'ish years in the making. 

[MissLucas]

1 minute ago, Lady Calypso said:

And yes, how Kevin treats people is really important, and he's not treated people very well. It's why I'm hoping this arc will help him become a better person. He's really not a bad guy; he still has a heart and he doesn't treat people completely disrespectfully. He's been a good uncle to Tess and Annie, he's been a supportive brother to Kate.

He's also helped Randall during his latest breakdown and he helped him get his first date with Beth. He was also supportive (together with Kate) when Randall was trying to find his biological mother. He has his flaws but I don't find him worse than his siblings. Kate has anger issues and Randall can be a judgmental jackass and a self-destructive perfectionist - in both cases we've seen those issues backfire badly on them, now it's Kevin's turn. They all need to face their demons and the big hagiographic elephant in the room.

[MsChicklet]

Beth went full-on passive-aggressive bitch in this episode. If she wasn't on-board with supporting her family -- which Kate and Rebecca are as well as Randall -- through this day, she should have said she was still too upset to deal with Kevin and stayed home. Rebecca was there, it's not like Randall wouldn't have someone to lean on. But Beth went, sniping all the way. By the time they were in the bar, I was wishing Miguel had handed her a shot of Shut the Fuck Up after reminding her and Toby that mocking his best friend was his no-fly zone.

I got Randall being angry, but I'm glad he stepped back and realized he delivered a cheap shot that didn't help anyone.

Jack totally messed up with Kate. You don't take a largely sedentary person and push them like that, unless you want to make them feel embarrassed and ashamed, and turn them off to physical activity (hi, Dad). 

I wonder if Rebecca noticed the woosh of the point sailing over her wig when she said, “You do a great disservice by calling my husband an addict, because he was so much more than that.” In the context of this family therapy session, Jack's addiction is a key thing to talk about.

Edited January 11, 2018 by MsChicklet

[GodsBeloved]

23 hours ago, Katy M said:

Beth has never been a big fan of Kevin and he could have conceivably gotten her daughter killed.  So, it doesn't really bug me that much that she's not on his side, right now. 

My issue with Beth is she should have stayed home. She wasn't about supporting Kevin and that's ok but she needed to keep it real. Her going gives the illusion that she was there to support Kevin and she wasn't. She would have made a bad situation even worse.

I was so glad the therapist didn't let "The Others" come to the session because I don't think any of them were there for Kevin. Rebecca, Kate, Randall yes but  The Others, no.

23 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I guess, to look at it from another side, this therapy session WAS supposed to be about Kevin. He was sharing his perspective, after all. And from his perspective, he felt overshadowed by Randall and Kate.

And how many times has this point been made right here on the board? Kevin being "forgotten" isn't coming from just his perspective.

Edited January 11, 2018 by GodsBeloved

[colorbars]

Beth doesn't hate Kevin. She just doesn't have a high tolerance for him or his bullshit (likely due to the fact that he's the Pearson she knows the least, given the fact that he and Randall weren't close until recently). She thinks he's cute and charming, but seems to only be able to take him in small doses, which is pretty common when dealing with in-laws. She wasn't happy to have him crashing on their couch for who knows how long when she wasn't asked/told and she's not happy that he was driving drunk with her daughter in the car. Sure, he didn't know she was in the car, but anger is not always rational and he was still a selfish asshole for driving drunk in the first place and endangering everyone else on the road - something she pointed out in the episode. She didn't want to fly out and go to Kevin's meeting because she was mad at him, which is completely within her right. But Randall pretty much forced her to go, so yeah, she was snarky and annoyed while there, like most people are when they're somewhere they don't want to be. Sue her. I also don't think she dislikes the rest of Randall's family at all? She seems perfectly fine with Kate and she only had an issue with Rebecca after finding out the truth about the William situation. Other than that, I don't recall her ever showing "disdain" for the Pearsons.

As for Kevin, I understand where he's coming from, because he was definitely an afterthought to Jack and Rebecca from what we've seen, but he was also an asshole little kid. The audacity of him being pouty that Rebecca assumed he took Randall's glasses and didn't believe him when he said he didn't, after the way he threw the ball at Randall's face earlier. I was really hoping Randall would call Kevin out on the way he treated him during the therapy session - that would've been a much better retaliation than his gross line about Kevin not really being an addict and only doing this for attention. After all, if his whole deal with bullying Randall was due to being jealous of the attention he got, it's telling he didn't ever take it out on Kate. As much as Kevin felt left out when it came to their parents, I'm sure Randall felt the same when it came to his siblings.

I continue to love what they're doing with Rebecca this season, exploring and confronting the parenting dynamic between her and Jack and her relationships with all three kids. None of it perfect, a lot of it is messy, but all very interesting to me. Mandy Moore is doing such a great job and I hope she gets the recognition she deserves this season. I knew as soon as Kevin laid on the floor that it would end with Rebecca getting out to sleep there with him, but it was still sweet to see.

[GodsBeloved]

21 hours ago, Dreamboat Annie said:

I get that what Kevin did was wrong because drinking and driving is never right.  But the visit was about healing, and anyone not on board with Kevin's healing and/or anyone who felt they couldn't be supportive of Kevin had no business being there.  So there was no need for Randall and Beth to get a sitter.  Beth should not have gone.  Her behavior when asked to leave was self serving and immature.

Exactly! She didn't want to be there to support Kevin anyway yet when she basically gets an out she's snotty about it.

[JasminePhyllisia]

3 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

Dear Toby:  When you are shown a picture of your girlfriend's beloved late father, commenting that he looks like a porn star seemed like a good idea, why? 

I wasn't offended when my husband first saw a picture of my late father and commented that he looked like Saddam Hussein! I guess it just came out.

[Runningwild]

1 hour ago, mommalib said:

And why did Kevin take all his anger out on Randall not on Kate at all. I get the feeling that because Kevin is the white biological child and Randall is the different one maybe Kevin felt he should take priority over Randall.

Totally disagree. It’s becaise they’re both male.  There were a few times when we saw Kevin being a jerk to Randall, but most of the time Kevin was just reacting to his parents favoring Randall. The one that sticks out in my mind was when Randall was studying late at night and Kevin couldn’t sleep with the light on. Rebecca wanted Kevin to just be more understanding of Randall. She never once suggested Randall go study elsewhere. Nor did Randall. I think Randall wanted everyone to know he was studying while Kevin was sleeping. 

There are so many times where Kevin was ignored or forgotten. What about when they all came out for a taping of his show? He got them special seats and they all walked out before it even started. 

Rewatch the show and pretend you’re a Kevin fan. You will see time and time again how he was overlooked and tossed aside. 

[PRgal]

1 hour ago, After7Only said:

I don't think we've seen anything that shown us Kevin wasn't "that loved" by his parents.  What we've seen are 2 parents who were doing their best to raise 3 kids who all happen to be the same age .  They made sacrifices for his well being.  Supported him in everything he did.  Sent him to football camp and made him homemade personalized Halloween costumes, lol...   They were never abusive towards him .  Didn't purposely withhold affection from him.  He just didn't get as much individual attention from his parents as Randall and Kate received.    It's a legitimate complaint/issue.    It helps us understand why Kevin does what he does, but it's not an excuse for why he does what he does.

A true discussion on privilege would take far more time and space than this forum allows.  But to discuss someone having privilege does not mean that privilege will protect them from all hardships in life.    Just as lack of privilege does not mean a person cannot be successful.  It does mean that there are certain things a straight white, good looking man in America are less likely to have to deal with.   Kevin is not going to be followed in a store or have store employees assume he couldn't afford things like Randall was.  Kevin's neighbors would not be overly concerned if they saw his father walking around the neighborhood, like Randall's were.  

Most of Kevin's "love" as a child and teen came from his football playing.  Of course, there were tender moments such as Rebecca moving to sleep on the floor with him during the thunderstorm, but my observation was that he was just another kid.   

[Quickbeam]

I really liked this episode, it felt raw and unpolished, as it should be. I did cry “foul” on the food debris. No self respecting binger just throws the evidence out! I kept a separate trash bag and threw it out at the Dairy Queen up the road! Got there on my bike, too. 

 

OMG the food shaming, it just hurt so much. Anyone who ever had a parent do this to them remembers the day for the rest of their life.

Edited January 11, 2018 by Quickbeam

[topanga]

1 minute ago, Quickbeam said:

No self respecting binger just throws the evidence out!

I laughed at the irony of your statement. Your totally right, though!

[tennisgurl]

1 hour ago, MsChicklet said:

I wonder if Rebecca noticed the woosh of the point sailing over her wig when she said, “You do a great disservice by calling my husband an addict, because he was so much more than that.” In the context of this family therapy session, Jack's addiction is a key thing to talk about.

Yeah, I love Rebecca but I literally rolled my eyes when she said that. Yes Jack is more than an addict. He was a good, hard working man who loved his family and tried his best to provide for them, and he was also an alcoholic. It was only one aspect of him, but it was certainly an aspect, and when your talking about your son who is a drug addict trying to figure out how he ended up here, this seems like a legit point to bring up. The Pearsons clearly have a long history of addiction, and the sooner they realize it, the better. Kevin's already figured it out, now if the rest of the family did, I think they would be much happier in the long run.

[memememe76]

Re why Kevin seems more upset at Randall than Kate, I think there are a couple reasons. There seems to be an societal acceptance for the father to favour the only daughter, maybe even an expectation. If Kate had a sister, that sister may not be as forgiving. 

Randall also went to another school. Kevin did not witness first hand Randall's isolation in school, whereas he saw students bully Kate. Kevin probably understood Kate's pain better than the parents. Also, it helps that Kate pretty much worships Kevin.

[kissedbyarose]

39 minutes ago, Quickbeam said:

I really liked this episode, it felt raw and unpolished, as it should be. I did cry “foul” on the food debris. No self respecting binger just throws the evidence out! I kept a separate trash bag and threw it out at the Dairy Queen up the road! Got there on my bike, too. 

 

OMG the food shaming, it just hurt so much. Anyone who ever had a parent do this to them remembers the day for the rest of their life.

I came here to post this! I have snuck out of my house late at night to throw away food-trash, hidden it in my room until I could throw it away in secret, etc. My mom was kind of like Rebecca with her small passive aggressive digs at my choice of food. She’s better now but I attribute that to being grown and out of the house and eating relatively healthy in her presense. 

 

I was one of those posters who actually liked Kevin’s addiction storyline and it was mostly for this episode/payoff here. When that one tear that slid down Rebecca’s face when Jack’s addiction was brought up.... That tear said more to me than her speech about how perfect Jack was then when the therapist picked up on her examples of just Kate and Randall... 

I’m not a cryer but man... someone may have been cutting onions while I was watching this episode.

Edited January 11, 2018 by kissedbyarose

[GodsBeloved]

6 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I think that is on the similar level of Randall and Beth's thinking as well. How can Kevin, a straight white rich man with so many more privileges than the others, have issues? He's just selfish, self absorbed, and looking for attention. His issues aren't as big as Randall's or Kate's. But...isn't that precisely the point Kevin was trying to make? That Kate and Randall's problems were bigger so Kevin's were ignored?

As I read this notion in the thread, I think all that glitters isn't gold.

The point about Kevin having "it all" yet still craving something has been made here from the start. We have been shown times when Kevin has, as we ourselves have put it, left out. The point has been made that Kevin didn't get the attention Kate and Randall did because it seemed he didn't have issues, he "had it all" yet it's painfully obvious that wasn't and isn't the case.

The most glaring scene for me was at the pool. Here was a situation where Kevin should have gotten the most attention since he was the ONE kid who could not swim. My niece and nephew, 11 and 9, know how to swim yet when I take them to the pool my eyes are glued on them. I am totally at a loss as to why neither of his parents had their eyes glued on Kevin. If he wasn't already feeling left out, I can see the pool scene being the genesis to Kevin's issues.

Yes he's white and rich but that hasn't made Kevin issue free cause all that glitters ain't gold.

[GodsBeloved]

7 hours ago, ChicksDigScars said:

But what are they supposed to do?  One child doesn't have as many problems, soooooo?  If they were giving Randall and Kate more attention, because they had issues that Kevin didn't, are they supposed to make up a reason to give Kevin more special attention?

I think the pool scene left a huge impression on Kevin. That was a case where Kevin should have gotten attention but didn't. He was literally drowning yet his parents, who knew he couldn't swim had their attention elsewhere.

And why is it that Rebecca specially points out milestones for Kate and Randall yet "forgets" a milestone for Kevin when talking about the kids not having their dad.

Edited January 11, 2018 by GodsBeloved

[Texasmom1970]

Damnit Sterling, stop being such an amazing actor and making me cry all the time!

[mommalib]

On 1/9/2018 at 10:37 PM, Neurochick said:

I don’t get the Beth hate, just because she’s not over the moon when  it comes to screwed up Kevin.  Yes, we all know how hard it is to be an attractive, wealthy white male in America.

Yeah the attitude toward Beth is really pissing me off. She has reason not to care for the guy.

[mommalib]

2 hours ago, Runningwild said:

Totally disagree. It’s becaise they’re both male.  There were a few times when we saw Kevin being a jerk to Randall, but most of the time Kevin was just reacting to his parents favoring Randall. The one that sticks out in my mind was when Randall was studying late at night and Kevin couldn’t sleep with the light on. Rebecca wanted Kevin to just be more understanding of Randall. She never once suggested Randall go study elsewhere. Nor did Randall. I think Randall wanted everyone to know he was studying while Kevin was sleeping. 

There are so many times where Kevin was ignored or forgotten. What about when they all came out for a taping of his show? He got them special seats and they all walked out before it even started. 

Rewatch the show and pretend you’re a Kevin fan. You will see time and time again how he was overlooked and tossed aside. 

He is supposed to be pissed at both parents for favoring Kate and Randall right? Kate never got any of the hostility from Kevin at all. I don't think it's as simple as it being because they both got a penis. Randall was the different one for obvious reasons and I think that played a part and still does.