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Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

ArctisTor

By ArctisTor
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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

4 minutes ago, wingster55 said:

Oh and about Iris mother being brought back just for Wally...considering her reaction to her being alive, and then her reaction to her passing being given much importance I disagree. 

Maybe not just for Wally but mostly for introducing Wall and that isn't a dis on Iris but on the show runners that somehow thought it made sense to have Joe ask Barry if it was ok if Wally lived with them, but left Iris out of the conversation entirely.  The same people that only let Iris be mad about finding out her dad lied about her mom being dead (but was now about to die) offscreen cause they didn't want to take up time telling that story.  

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apinknightmare
apinknightmare

I mean, I don't want her in a suit so it's not the "never" in this instance that bothers me, but Marc saying that Felicity specifically would make the notion of superheroics "silly." Why? In this show

Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

And then someone tells him that what he did was okay because of reasons, or that he can't keep feeling guilty, he just has to move forward. Like, no, just...go ahead and feel really guilty for awhile?

SleepDeprived
SleepDeprived

Hey, now... Listen. The practice of proper etiquette during an impromptu wedding officiated by your best friend in a park, right after the funeral of a beloved colleague, is of the utmost importance,

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wingster55

wingster55

9 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Maybe not just for Wally but mostly for introducing Wall and that isn't a dis on Iris but on the show runners that somehow thought it made sense to have Joe ask Barry if it was ok if Wally lived with them, but left Iris out of the conversation entirely.  The same people that only let Iris be mad about finding out her dad lied about her mom being dead (but was now about to die) offscreen cause they didn't want to take up time telling that story.  

Iris hasn't lived with Joe since s1 e10. I do agree that they should have shown Iris be more mad (or not deleted the WA scene from 20 whatever last season)

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ruby24

ruby24

(edited)

I have a hard time seeing how they easily fit Iris into the narrative for this one on the other shows, but maybe they'll have her be on Supergirl for that musical crossover in the spring. That's just Flash and SG, so it'd be easier to use more people in the two casts- and frankly, I think that show is where she fits into a crossover more easily, since she and Kara are reporters. Should be a pretty natural connection there.

The show just isn't that interested in the reporter job, because almost everything is set in Star Labs all the time on The Flash. Which is annoying because I think the Star Labs scenes get so repetitive that they all start to feel exactly the same, and I don't understand how or if Caitlin and Cisco are getting payed to work there. If the show had been set primarily in the police department and made more use of Barry's secret identity with more people, I'm sure Iris's role as a reporter would be much better utilized.

As for fan favorites, I would agree that Cisco is the easiest person to fit into every show, because he's the comic relief. Those kinds of characters you can take anywhere and just have them rattle off one liners in group scenes. I don't think Caitlin is anyone's favorite though, and it kinda shows how useless even the show finds her when she was included in the Arrow episode last season for literally one line of dialogue. I had to wonder in that case why she was even there- is it just because they originally introduced her and Cisco as a team in the Arrowverse? She certainly hasn't lived up to that promise, and when it comes to The Flash, I think Iris has had a better role than her when it comes to the show they're actually on. She's undoubtedly part of the heart of the West-Allen family dynamic for Barry, and that's pretty important to the show. I'm not sure what Caitlin adds. Although this season they're doing Killer Frost, so at least that's something (I think she'd be more interesting as a villain, but I'm sure they're not turning her evil).

Edited by ruby24
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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

8 minutes ago, wingster55 said:

Iris hasn't lived with Joe since s1 e10. I do agree that they should have shown Iris be more mad (or not deleted the WA scene from 20 whatever last season)

No, she moved back home in season two.  And then Flashpoint had her estranged since Joe spilled the beans so we assume she moved out in the changed timeline.  But I think the show runners might have forgotten where Iris was living as well.  

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

7 hours ago, wingster55 said:

 

And yes...I do have to get "my digs in". Or just give my opinion...either or. 

It comes off as a dig because your response is to argue about Felicity's relevance and debate popularity instead of putting forward ways in which you think Iris could serve a purpose in the crossovers. Seems like your argument should've included that? 

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Another video clip from EW PopFest (where the panel debates who would win in a superhero vs superhero fight)...

MB: "She's got heat vision. She flies!"
SA: "Experience... Experience. I'll let you two destroy each other and then I'll come in and mop up."

EW Popfest - CW Arrowverse Panel | Supergirl vs Flash vs Arrow
Published on Oct 31, 2016, by TheDCTVshow

Edited by tv echo
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Starfish35

Starfish35

The ratings numbers @Velocity23 posted last week made me curious.   This is similar to what they posted, but not quite.  I just wanted to look at it a little bit different way, and also I don't have the men/women breakdown.  These are all final numbers from last week.

(All numbers from Showbuzzdaily.com)

Adults 18-34

  1. The Flash - 0.9
  2. Arrow - 0.7
  3. Supergirl - 0.6
  4. Supernatural - 0.5
  5. Jane the Virgin - 0.4
  6. Frequency/Legends of Tomorrow/The Vampire Diaries - 0.3
  7. Crazy Ex-Girlfriend/No Tomorrow - 0.2

Adults 18-49

  1. The Flash 1.0
  2. Supergirl - 0.8
  3. Arrow - 0.7
  4. Legends of Tomorrow/Supernatural - 0.6
  5. Jane the Virgin - 0.4
  6. Frequency/No Tomorrow/The Vampire Diaries - 0.3
  7. Crazy Ex-Girlfriend - 0.2

Adults 25-54

  1. The Flash - 1.1
  2. Supergirl - 1.0
  3. Arrow - 0.8
  4. Legends of Tomorrow/Supernatural - 0.7
  5. Frequency/Jane the Virgin/The Vampire Diaries - 0.4
  6. No Tomorrow - 0.3
  7. Crazy Ex-Girlfriend - 0.2
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Mellowyellow

Mellowyellow

Arrrrgghhhh the guy who plays Mon El on Supergirl played a raging psychopath on Vampire Diaries! I can't get over that! He just looks like crazy Kai to me!

I'm warming up to Jimmy this season.  Doesn't hurt that he's extremely easy on the eye. 

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

I don't agree with the headline, but it's an interesting read...

Why Supergirl Is The Best Superhero Show On The CW
BY LAURA HURLEY  Oct. 31, 2016
http://www.cinemablend.com/television/1579840/why-supergirl-is-the-best-superhero-show-on-the-cw

Quote

All three of the original CW shows have their merits. There's Arrow for folks who don't like superpowers, The Flash for people who love the fantastical, and Legends of Tomorrow for viewers who like time travel. The writing generally isn't anything phenomenal, and it tends to be best not to think too hard about the plots and just try to enjoy the ride. Supergirl is a different story. Although everyone has their favorite, thanks to a combination of factors, Supergirl has pushed above and beyond the original shows. Check out our breakdown of the big reasons why it has become the best superhero show on The CW.
*  *  *
For a show about an alien with so many abilities that she defies the most basic laws of physics and biology, Supergirl has done pretty well with setting rules and keeping them. Kara derives her power from Earth's yellow sun. Green kryptonite makes her weak, and red kryptonite makes her crazy. She can do almost anything, but she can't always do everything, and she doesn't get reset buttons when she fails.

To contrast, the other three superhero shows on The CW break their own rules all the time. Arrow has sometimes changed Oliver's skills as a fighter on a weekly basis, depending on who the plot du jour wants to showcase. The Flash has rewritten its laws about time travel a few times since Season 1, and Legends of Tomorrow makes up its own laws about time travel all the time. Supergirl's consistency sets it apart in the best way.

Here's her bullet points:

There's Something For Everyone
It Sticks To Its Own Rules
It Has Its Own Universe
It Makes Sense Out Of Its Over-The-Top Premise
It Has Well-Written Female Characters
It Has A New Kind Of Superman

Edited by tv echo
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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

I do think Supergirl is the best written out of the 4 Berlantiverse shows. It's not my favorite [because favorite has absolutely nothing to do with quality], but it's the only one that's not giving me BECAUSE PLOT! headaches this season. The writing just feels tighter, better paced than last season too. And I like all the new characters! Maggie, Lena, Megan are all great fully-formed characters already. Javier from Felicity is fun to watch -- I don't even miss Ally McBeal that much. Even the most obvious cliché ever lost prince of the rival planet who's totally being groomed for Love Interest is working for me.

Of course, they still don't know what the fuck to do with Jimmy Olsen, but also, I didn't even realize he wasn't in last night's episode until I saw a mention of it. Hopefully the mask will make fetch happen?
 

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

THE FLASH: CANDICE PATTON TALKS CROSSOVERS AND IRIS AND BARRY'S ''HEALTHY, NORMAL'' RELATIONSHIP
ERIC GOLDMAN  31 OCT 2016
http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/10/31/the-flash-candice-patton-talks-crossovers-and-iris-and-barrys-healthy-normal-relationship

Quote

IGN: There's this huge, mega-crossover coming. Iris hasn't been a big part of previous crossovers. What about this time?
Patton: I'm afraid this season she is not crossing over. I know, I know! I'm always advocating for it, but there's a lot of characters across four shows. It's got to make sense, and I guess this year it didn't make sense. She's very much involved in the crossover that happens in The Flash, we just don't see her crossover to Legends, Supergirl or Arrow.

IGN: But we do get to see her meet some of the characters from the other shows?
Patton: Absolutely. Yeah, all of the fan favorites Iris gets to meet. It's really cool. Even getting to see Supergirl/Kara fly for the first time doing those stunts. It's... I geek out as well, because we don't have that on our show. Grant [Gustin] just kind of zips in and zips out. Using a harness to fly up is cool for us!
*  *  *
IGN: Barry and Iris seem to actually be having a happy relationship right now!
Patton: I think it's fair to say that if there's any superhero that could have a healthy, normal relationship, it's Barry Allen. One thing about Barry is his relationships and his family is really important to him. It's what makes him a superhero. Yes, I think we can expect to see a very healthy, normal relationship with Barry and Iris this season.

IGN: Is that fun for you guys?
Patton: Yeah, I think it's just been a long time coming. I think we've all kind of known that Barry and Iris were destined to be together, it just had to come at the right time. It's more of a relief to get to play those iconic moments with Barry and Iris.

Edited by tv echo
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BaggythePanther

BaggythePanther

I know this has nothing to do with the ratings but I noticed BamBam co-directed last night's episode of Supergirl. I don't normally notice directorial choices but there a few camera angles last night that took me out of the story. Is he going to be directing on all four shows now?

m

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quarks

quarks

3 minutes ago, BaggythePanther said:

I know this has nothing to do with the ratings but I noticed BamBam co-directed last night's episode of Supergirl. I don't normally notice directorial choices but there a few camera angles last night that took me out of the story. Is he going to be directing on all four shows now?

m

They've had Bamford come in and direct some second unit sequences on Flash before, so this may have been something similar - the fight sequences were all done in one of Arrow's favorite warehouses and one of the alleys Arrow has sometimes used for outdoor night sequences. 

I'm mostly wondering when it's going to occur to the DEO that all of the aliens have chosen to hole up in warehouses this season, and then scramble to figure out what that means. 

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Primal Slayer

Primal Slayer

It's sad that Supergirl manages to do what The Flash cant. In 2 episodes they have managed to put Maggie very front and center and show her doing her job which apart from arresting bad guys is what they should have Iris be doing over on The Flash. Maggie investigating is everything they should have Iris do. 

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BaggythePanther

BaggythePanther

5 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

They should have had Iris be a cop.  I've thought that from day one, and nothing has ever changed my mind.  

When they revealed that Joe & Iris were estranged in the Flashpoint timeline, I was hoping it was because Iris ignored Joe's wishes and became a cop.

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Starfish35

Starfish35

(edited)
Quote

Weren't they originally going to make Iris a Psychology student? 

That's what I remember.

5 minutes ago, BaggythePanther said:

When they revealed that Joe & Iris were estranged in the Flashpoint timeline, I was hoping it was because Iris ignored Joe's wishes and became a cop.

That might, almost, have made me forgive Barry.

If you're going to do Flashpoint, writers, why waste it on things that didn't need to be fixed in the first place (*cough* Baby Sara *cough*)?  Use it to actually make some interesting changes.

Edited by Starfish35
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BaggythePanther

BaggythePanther

57 minutes ago, quarks said:

I'm mostly wondering when it's going to occur to the DEO that all of the aliens have chosen to hole up in warehouses this season, and then scramble to figure out what that means. 

Last season when Barry guest starred on Supergirl he did make a meta joke about villains always hiding in warehouses.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

(edited)
13 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

Arrrrgghhhh the guy who plays Mon El on Supergirl played a raging psychopath on Vampire Diaries! I can't get over that! He just looks like crazy Kai to me!

I'm warming up to Jimmy this season.  Doesn't hurt that he's extremely easy on the eye. 

Is it also because he has barely been on the show this season (and not on at all last night)?  I just don't know how they are going to make him show relevant.  

11 hours ago, tv echo said:

I don't agree with the headline, but it's an interesting read...

Why Supergirl Is The Best Superhero Show On The CW
BY LAURA HURLEY  Oct. 31, 2016
http://www.cinemablend.com/television/1579840/why-supergirl-is-the-best-superhero-show-on-the-cw

Here's her bullet points:

There's Something For Everyone
It Sticks To Its Own Rules
It Has Its Own Universe
It Makes Sense Out Of Its Over-The-Top Premise
It Has Well-Written Female Characters
It Has A New Kind Of Superman

I'm side eyeing the "sticks to it's own Rules" since suddenly this year there are friendly aliens living everywhere ala Men in Black style when last year we met one apart from Kara and J'onn and even that guy was a former drug mule on his planet.  

I enjoy Supergirl but it's only in it's second season.  Give it more time and it will be breaking it's rules even more just like all the other shows. 

Edited by BkWurm1
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Starfish35

Starfish35

(edited)

Honestly, I just don't think the reporter thing works very well on these shows. I'm not watching Flash this year, but it wasn't working well last year and so far it doesn't sound like it's working well this year.  And it's not working on Supergirl with Kara either, in my opinion.  (Judging by the abruptness with which they dumped Kara/James, I'm starting to wonder how long it will be before they decide CatCo doesn't really work without Cat and dump that side altogether.)

Edited by Starfish35
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Starfish35

Starfish35

11 hours ago, dtissagirl said:

Even the most obvious cliché ever lost prince of the rival planet who's totally being groomed for Love Interest is working for me.

*facepalm* I cannot believe I didn't catch that.  Of course he's the prince, just like M'gann is the guard in her story.  

I just hope he doesn't go evil.  I like him so far.  

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statsgirl

statsgirl

When the original casting call for Iris came out, she was supposed to be a grad student in psychology.  That made sense because she could help profile the bad guys. But then they decided to go with comics! and she's a reporter.

Maybe the idea of a reporter as a super hero side kick worked in the 30s and 40s when it was about finding out things but now we have computer programs and psychology and it's really hard to make the reporter stuff relevant.  I wouldn't be surprised if they did get rid of CatCo because the idea of Kara becoming an Insta Reporter is ridiculous and Snapper is just rude and not really relevant.

Mon El is not working for me because he's so Obviously!  Love! Interest! for Kara and not a compelling character or actor.  And he's taking up time I would rather spend on characters I care about.  When he and Winn were playing drinking games, two white boys doing frat boy things, for all that it was an amusing sequence, I just thought "how many times have I seen this before?"

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Starfish35

Starfish35

I can't totally decide whether Mon-El is the new love interest, or if he's the new Jay.  An apparent friend that turns out to be a villain. 

Someone over at the Supergirl forum suggested that maybe he actually killed the prince to escape, instead of being heroically saved by him.  I can see that scenario too.  I just am not totally sure which way they're going with him right now.

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ruby24

ruby24

I think they should treat Kara in the kind of Mary Tyler Moore model, a strong, independent, single woman with occasional love interests that are guest stars (or recurring guest stars) only. In the absence of a canon love interest that anyone is attached to, that could work. Then maybe if they happen upon an actor she has amazing natural chemistry with, they could develop that into something more at some point. But have her not be looking to "end up with" anyone.

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kismet

kismet

I think the reporter angle works for Supergirl. It gives her a reason to be at crime or major event scenes. It also allows for Cat/Calista to return in whatever capacity the CW can afford her and thank goodness for that. Otherwise, where would Kara always disappear to and why does she always seem to be in the midst of everything. It doesn't make for the most interesting story, but at least it's logical.

Iris as a reporter does not work because we don't need someone telling us the news of the day. We already have Barry on the scene, so for her to cover it just seems repetitive from a narrative perspective. And they quickly dropped the whole Lois/Clark angle of will she be covering Flash and not piece together that it's BA. Having her as a psychological profiler would have made more sense. You could have put her in the Police station or even Star Labs. It also would give her a unique knowledge base. I have no problem with Iris being a reporter but it brings nothing to the story beyond that cute Newspaper byline of her future hyphenated name, which she didn't need to be a reporter for. Non-reporters can get bylines or specialty articles. Flashpoint was their opportunity to give her a more relevant career narrative to their current characters. Why did they fail to use it to make improvements?

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kismet

kismet

I don't know if this makes me sound selfish or not... but I hope that Snapper and FS never interact for the duration of both series. I know Ian Gomez is not Javier and is playing a completely different character on Supergirl. But somehow to hear him say or reference another Felicity would be really hard for me. Every now and then when I hear the name Felicity, I still imagine that I'm going to be whisk away to happier Felicity times in UNY, with believable (yet melodramatic) relationships, Dean & Deluca, stolen kisses over Carmen and triangle necklaces. Where chunky sweaters reigned, you told you inner secrets to tape recorders and haircuts were disastrous on multiple levels.

I have primarily separated that fantasy and throwback to younger days when I watch Arrow, but somehow having Ian Gomez talk about Felicity might break that magical wall I've built in my head.

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Velocity23

Velocity23

DC Universe Movies Heading to TNT, TBS

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/dc-universe-movies-heading-tnt-tbs-943361?utm_source=twitter

Quote

Time Warner CEO Jeff Bewkes mentions the pact on the company's earnings conference call and says DC TV series generate more than $1 billion in revenue per year for the company.

TBS and TNT, part of Time Warner's Turner unit, now have a deal with the company's Warner Bros. for the studio's DC films, Time Warner chairman and CEO Jeff Bewkes said on an earnings conference call on Wednesday.

He didn't detail financial or other specifics of the deal, but it is believed to cover all upcoming DC Entertainment-inspired films and previously released films, including Suicide Squad.

The deal is for the cable TV window, so following the theatrical release and premium TV window.

The deal adds to a deal unveiled earlier this year with Walt Disney for the films in the Star Wars franchise and to Marvel movies and the Hunger Games franchise.

Suicide Squad had the biggest August opening ever, the Time Warner boss said in lauding the third-quarter's film performance in another DC shoutout.

Bewkes also lauded the strong performance of the DC TV series, saying they generate more than $1 billion in revenue a year for Time Warner. He said the company has an unprecedented 10 DC TV series on the air this season.

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GirlvsTV

GirlvsTV

10? Arrow, Flush, Supergirl, Legends, Gotham, Lucifer, that sitcom one that hasn't debuted w/ the girl from High School Musical* . . . What are the other 3?

*what happened to that show? Is it mid-season?

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tarotx

tarotx

29 minutes ago, bijoux said:

What about that teen show that was in development? I can't remember if it was actually DC Comics, though I'm positive it was based on a comic, or if it has been picked up.

Riverdale? It is a mid season on the CW/

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Ophanim

Ophanim

27 minutes ago, bijoux said:

What about that teen show that was in development? I can't remember if it was actually DC Comics, though I'm positive it was based on a comic, or if it has been picked up.

Riverdale? According to twitter, it will be on CW, hm, HOW many comic book tv shows are too many?

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

Ouch, man those HH are deceiving, it looked like it had gone back up to the premiere type numbers  

31 minutes ago, Lidach said:

Riverdale? According to twitter, it will be on CW, hm, HOW many comic book tv shows are too many?

Riverdale is Archie Comics.  I know DC has a license with them for some IP but, I don't know if Riverdale counts as a DC Comic Show,

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FurryFury

FurryFury

13 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Maybe the idea of a reporter as a super hero side kick worked in the 30s and 40s when it was about finding out things but now we have computer programs and psychology and it's really hard to make the reporter stuff relevant.  I wouldn't be surprised if they did get rid of CatCo because the idea of Kara becoming an Insta Reporter is ridiculous and Snapper is just rude and not really relevant.

Karen does fine on Daredevil as a reporter, though, and she didn't even start as a reporter. Well, she does fine as a character (although some disagree), not as a love interest, but that's beside the point. She has her own storyline and she'll even get to be on other Marvel Netflix shows. While I'm definitely tired of the reporter trope, it's still possible to make it work. The Flash writers just never try.

As for Supergirl, I'm probably the only person in the world who didn't like Maggie, at all (her actress REALLY grates). I'm not sure I want to continue watching. I guess it depends on Mon-El and what they do with him. I miss Max Lord, Jimmy being sidelined is something I like, Cat was fun and the show lost something without her (can't believe I hated her in the pilot), I don't care about Winn, he's dead weight, and while I love Alex and Hank, I definitely don't care about Alex/Maggie and not sure I'll care about Hank and M'gann, or the whole aliens integration plotline. I didn't form an opinion on Mon-El in the previous episode, and I haven't seen this one, but I guess they could create something interesting with him. We'll see. As it is, I kinda stopped watching all Arrowverse shows this season, although I'll probably catch up on LoT at some point, because Sara (but I'm still pissed about loss of Rip and Cold - that's just unforgivable, show).

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ohjoy

ohjoy

22 minutes ago, FurryFury said:

Karen does fine on Daredevil as a reporter, though, and she didn't even start as a reporter. Well, she does fine as a character (although some disagree), not as a love interest, but that's beside the point. She has her own storyline and she'll even get to be on other Marvel Netflix shows. While I'm definitely tired of the reporter trope, it's still possible to make it work. The Flash writers just never try.

As for Supergirl, I'm probably the only person in the world who didn't like Maggie, at all (her actress REALLY grates). I'm not sure I want to continue watching. I guess it depends on Mon-El and what they do with him. I miss Max Lord, Jimmy being sidelined is something I like, Cat was fun and the show lost something without her (can't believe I hated her in the pilot), I don't care about Winn, he's dead weight, and while I love Alex and Hank, I definitely don't care about Alex/Maggie and not sure I'll care about Hank and M'gann, or the whole aliens integration plotline. I didn't form an opinion on Mon-El in the previous episode, and I haven't seen this one, but I guess they could create something interesting with him. We'll see. As it is, I kinda stopped watching all Arrowverse shows this season, although I'll probably catch up on LoT at some point, because Sara (but I'm still pissed about loss of Rip and Cold - that's just unforgivable, show).

Can we make this a party of two? Because ITA.

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