Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[dtissagirl]

Dear Lauren Gallaway, "reverse sexism" is not a thing that exists in nature, for fuck's sake.

 

[calliope1975]

I love that JJ will have all women directors. I believe they shoot in NY, and I bet at least a few of those directors will be LA based yet not have any problem with the prep and commute. What I'm trying to allude to is it's BS that Berlanti verse can't get more lady directors, and I suspect the atmosphere on set is the reason why. 

Anyhoo, yay for JJ!

[dtissagirl]

The more I think about that Berlanti excuse that women told him they can't travel for work, the more I'm sure he was given a bullshit line from women who did not want to work on his sets.

On the other side of the spectrum, being her awesomeness as usual, Ava Duvernay only hired women directors for Queen Sugar, some of them who had never directed TV before, AND THEN she hired a very  experienced director, Neema Barnette, to mentor all directors on set.  http://www.indiewire.com/2016/09/queen-sugar-ava-duvernay-neema-barnette-director-mentor-diversity-1201726650/

This is what real diversity and inclusion looks like.

[Primal Slayer]

I am surprised (not really) that CW has yet to take full potential of the big cross over eps. They are basically like mini movies, why not release them on dvd shortly after they air with some bts features exploring the characters/storylines featured in the event. Not to mention trying to get Tvguide or someone to cover it promotionally so they can get some cool group photos out of it.

[bijoux]

Did Jessica Jones poach all those women directors Arrow wanted this year?[/sarcasm]

[kismet]

Wow, that was a lot to take in. I had taken a break from this thread until I could catch up to all the Flarrowverse and somewhere in that time period Gotham snuck up and became my favorite superhero/comic show currently on.... go figure. There was a lot of postings, about 10 pages worth.

For all of its faults, Gotham still produces an hour of entertaining television with decent writing & acting. It could be better, but its definitely better than the Flarroverse shows this season. Gotham went from a binge show to a watch live show. Well, Monday is busy - but I definitely will make an effort to keep up with Gotham. It's ironic to me because Gotham is doing so much of the same things Arrow did (mystical powers, breaking up OTP, love triangles, a mayoral run, children actors) and yet none of it is bothering me. I'm actually interested in how the writers will work it all out.

Also, I would like to submit a new ranking of the superhero/comics I watch. Gotham was definitely better in the 2015-16 season than all of the Flarrowverse shows. Out of the ones I watch this is how they rank for me last season - 1) Gotham; 2) Agent Carter; 3) LoT; 4) Arrow; 5) Supergirl & 6) Flash.

For all of those saddened & angered by Sara Diggle's unnecessary erasure - I'm right there with you. I never was really connected to Lil Sara, so I didn't think that her removal would annoy me. But surprisingly it did. It was just so wrong and unnecessary to replace a female with a male just for one episode. It's just such a middle finger to females. I get it that in time travel shows, people change & get erased all the time, but this one feels far more insulting to the audience. Perhaps if the Flarrowverse treated females better on the whole, I would not feel like it was such a direct insult. However, females have always felt replacable and now they have just proven it once again. It could have handled so differently.

As for FP, - the 2 good things about the FP. Loving Julian and his attitude towards Barry. Also loving the subdued Cisco - hope both stick around. My last FP theory is that FP probably erased the engagement of OQ/FS. I find it interesting that the writers have written so far away from the coupling that no one is questioning why FS is hanging out with her ex-fiance. I get there is a mission, but if I was a newbie on that team, that would be a top question I would have. I have a feeling that will the "cool" reveal whenever new boytoy meets OQ; that FS & OQ were never romantically involved - or if they were it was a brief relationship. It will be s3 all over again, only this time OQ will be permitted to be hooking up with an available female, most likely the reporter. Also boytoy wants to meet FS's friends, well get in line I've been waiting to meet FS's friends for 5 years now.

[bijoux]

1 minute ago, kismet said:

My last FP theory is that FP probably erased the engagement of OQ/FS. I find it interesting that the writers have written so far away from the coupling that no one is questioning why FS is hanging out with her ex-fiance. I get there is a mission, but if I was a newbie on that team, that would be a top question I would have. I have a feeling that will the "cool" reveal whenever new boytoy meets OQ; that FS & OQ were never romantically involved - or if they were it was a brief relationship. It will be s3 all over again, only this time OQ will be permitted to be hooking up with an available female, most likely the reporter. Also boytoy wants to meet FS's friends, well get in line I've been waiting to meet FS's friends for 5 years now.

I was wondering about that as well until the last episode when Curtis asked Felicity if she told Oliver about Rory and Havenrock, and her reply was that they didn't have that type of relationship anymore. It doesn't make sense if they hadn't ever been involved or only casually so.

[tv echo]

Also, at the end of 501, there was this Oliver/Diggle conversation, which implied that Oliver & Felicity did have a past romantic relationship of some kind...

Oliver (via skype): "Felicity thinks that it's time we put together a new team."
Diggle (via skype): "And you want to know if I think that's a good idea?" 
Oliver (via skype): "I do." 
Diggle (via skype): "I think it is. It wasn't exactly the response you were looking for, right?" 
Oliver (via skype): "No. No. But I'm not surprised. I need to make peace with the fact that things aren't going to go back to the way they were."
Diggle (via skype): "So does that include you and Felicity?" 
Oliver (via skype): "I don't know."

Edited October 23, 2016 by tv echo

[dtissagirl]

They also started the 501 previouslies with Oliver proposing, and then Felicity giving him back the ring. It happened.

[bijoux]

1 minute ago, dtissagirl said:

They also started the 501 previouslies with Oliver proposing, and then Felicity giving him back the ring. It happened.

I could still write that off like Sara Diggle being featured in the 503 previouslies, but the episodes proper debunk the theory IMO.

[Trini]

1 hour ago, kismet said:

For all of those saddened & angered by Sara Diggle's unnecessary erasure - I'm right there with you. I never was really connected to Lil Sara, so I didn't think that her removal would annoy me. But surprisingly it did. It was just so wrong and unnecessary to replace a female with a male just for one episode. It's just such a middle finger to females. I get it that in time travel shows, people change & get erased all the time, but this one feels far more insulting to the audience. Perhaps if the Flarrowverse treated females better on the whole, I would not feel like it was such a direct insult. However, females have always felt replacable and now they have just proven it once again. It could have handled so differently.

All this is true. I found a tiny silver lining, though -- Baby Sara must be living on in another timeline, but a timeline without Barry Allen (since that Barry is now in the new timeline).

[RedVitC]

On 10/11/2016 at 8:36 AM, BkWurm1 said:

Not at all. We like long winded respectful opinions.  I hope you always feel free to share. 

Thanks, I appreciate it!

[kismet]

1 hour ago, bijoux said:

I was wondering about that as well until the last episode when Curtis asked Felicity if she told Oliver about Rory and Havenrock, and her reply was that they didn't have that type of relationship anymore. It doesn't make sense if they hadn't ever been involved or only casually so.

That was the only hint, but if they had gone on a few dates I could see her still referencing their relationship as different. It's probably just the blown up Italian Restaurant and the hooking up in NP. I bet there was no summer of love or souffles. I'm just saying, I would not be surprised if it is revealed that OQ & FS were never officially a couple. I actually have gone as far to think that it won't be until LoT crossover when Ray returns that we'll get the big reveal. Because who better than Jello to reveal the former reality to Mayo. And then we get the opportunity to have months of angst about wondering what could have been (Sarcastic Yay)...

[kismet]

58 minutes ago, Trini said:

All this is true. I found a tiny silver lining, though -- Baby Sara must be living on in another timeline, but a timeline without Barry Allen (since that Barry is now in the new timeline).

That's not enough of a consolation for me. The writers have still thrown me and every other woman watching the shows the big middle finger. It doesn't make me feel better that they might have made a donation somewhere unimportant. We all live in this timeline and in this timeline, the Flarrowverse & TPTB have just told me that my gender is replaceable & unimportant. It's also told me that some silly plot point that could be explained by having a 2nd child was more important than the 2 years that the characters and fans invested in a female character named in honor of a fallen female character. But whatever, I'm glad they were able to explain that one episode of LoT and increase the penises in the Flarrowverse. I was getting concerned that we might not have enough of those.

Edited October 23, 2016 by kismet

[Lokiberry]

2 hours ago, kismet said:

Wow, that was a lot to take in. I had taken a break from this thread until I could catch up to all the Flarrowverse and somewhere in that time period Gotham snuck up and became my favorite superhero/comic show currently on.... go figure. There was a lot of postings, about 10 pages worth.

For all of its faults, Gotham still produces an hour of entertaining television with decent writing & acting. It could be better, but its definitely better than the Flarroverse shows this season. Gotham went from a binge show to a watch live show. Well, Monday is busy - but I definitely will make an effort to keep up with Gotham. It's ironic to me because Gotham is doing so much of the same things Arrow did (mystical powers, breaking up OTP, love triangles, a mayoral run, children actors) and yet none of it is bothering me. I'm actually interested in how the writers will work it all out.

I'm with you. I've always loved Gotham because I'm a big Batman nerd, but this last episode, wow! The Nygmobblepot hit me like a runaway bus, I did not see it coming. Perhaps I'm just slow.  My poor shipper heart had been broken so many time, that I had just given up, and then there it was!

Anyway, I'm worn out with the Flarrowverse. Arrow has had all the life sucked out of it: new characters that I don't care about, and all the old relationships gone or changed beyond recognition. The Flash, for the second season in a row, is all about Barry's stupidity; only this year he gets to take down other shows too. LOT has lost both Cold and Rip, and replaced them with a boring, vanilla goody two-shoes. We have Ray for that, we don't need anyone else! Only Supergirl is still holding my attention, and who knows what it's going to be like now that Cat Grant is gone

Edited October 23, 2016 by Lokiberry

[BunsenBurner]

My brother and I watched or tried to watch the season premieres of The Flash, LOT and Supergirl.

My 7 year old nephew is no longer allowed to watch The Flash because Barry has no consequences. He apparently used him as an example on why he shouldn't be punished and it resulted in them realizing that the show is not setting a good example! I would like to know how many seconds or minutes are used in each episode are used just to show the colored lines of the speedsters running and I wonder why they never go up and over the buildings when they are chasing each other. I realize that they can't show the other side but it is monotonous and boring to watch. Saw the floral arrangement for the date with Iris on twitter this week and thought it was for a funeral and wondered if she had died. We have decided that we will attempt to watch the crossover but nothing else.

LOT was better without RH but I did not like the costumes that were used on CL. They looked cheap like something out of Goodwill on a bad day. Could SA be any more broody and grouchy? We might watch a few more shows haven't decided yet but not live.

Can't get ourselves to watch more than 30 minutes of Supergirl and that took 5 days of trying. Do not like Superman at all. Why does he get to run and zoom to fly away and Supergirl just kind of steps and undramatically flies away.  I realized that the only reason I watched before was for Calista Flockhart. My 6 year old niece said the show was just too boring and she is going to watch Shadow Hunters instead. Will not finish the premiere. Might attempt to watch the end of the show for the crossover but I feel like it would be like scratching fingernails on a chalkboard.

[dtissagirl]

3 minutes ago, BunsenBurner said:

My 7 year old nephew is no longer allowed to watch The Flash because Barry has no consequences. He apparently used him as an example on why he shouldn't be punished and it resulted in them realizing that the show is not setting a good example!

This is legit the greatest commentary on The Flash that I have ever read.

[Delphi]

3 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

This is legit the greatest commentary on The Flash that I have ever read.

I agree completely. 

[Trini]

What type of consequences do people want for the Flash?
Because I keeping reading that there haven't been any; but there have been consequences to Barry's actions (this season and last) -- but not the ones people want?

[catrox14]

4 minutes ago, Trini said:

What type of consequences do people want for the Flash?
Because I keeping reading that there haven't been any; but there have been consequences to Barry's actions (this season and last) -- but not the ones people want?

The consequences happen to other people. Not Barry. 

[calliope1975]

4 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

The consequences happen to other people. Not Barry. 

Yep yep. From what I've seen, Barry feels bad and cries, and that's about the extent of his consequences. 

[wonderwall]

Oh come on guyssss he is suffering!!!!!!!! A mean boy doesn't like him :(

Edited October 24, 2016 by wonderwall

[Carrie Ann]

31 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

Yep yep. From what I've seen, Barry feels bad and cries, and that's about the extent of his consequences. 

And then someone tells him that what he did was okay because of reasons, or that he can't keep feeling guilty, he just has to move forward. Like, no, just...go ahead and feel really guilty for awhile? Maybe forever? Cisco's brother is now dead and that's your fault. You should definitely feel bad about that forever, and Cisco should not forgive you if he doesn't want to.

Basically, I want Barry's consequences to fall on Barry more than any other person, including people who die because of him. ("Fridging" exists as a criticism because fiction tends to treat the loss of a woman as somehow worse for the dude who survived than the woman whose life was cut short.) I want him to have interpersonal, career, other life consequences. For comparison, those are the kinds of consequences Oliver has faced for his many fuck-ups, and even things that weren't actually his fault. 

Maybe the citizens of Central City/The World could stop seeing The Flash as such a perfect hero when he's actually put all of their lives second to his own, repeatedly. (Compare to: the police manhunt for the Arrow, and the Hood/Arrow/GA reputation struggle in general.) Maybe Barry could lose his job for neglecting his duties. (Like Oliver losing his family's company and their money.) Maybe more than one of his friends/family could hold him accountable instead of relieving him of his guilt--be allowed to get and stay mad at him for more than part of an episode (like when Dig wouldn't talk to Oliver for six months), break off their personal relationship (Dig again, and add Laurel, Felicity, Thea, Quentin, etc. to the list).

I hope some of those things are coming on The Flash, but I doubt it based on the previous two seasons and three episodes of the series, and if any of them do happen, I firmly believe the show will paint Barry as the victim. It'll probably be mean ol' Draco poisoning people against him!

Edited October 24, 2016 by Carrie Ann

[statsgirl]

I wish I could upvote that post a bazillion times, Carrie Ann.

That's why The Flash is awful to watch now but Kreisburg and Berlanti just can't seem to get it.

[BkWurm1]

6 hours ago, Trini said:

All this is true. I found a tiny silver lining, though -- Baby Sara must be living on in another timeline, but a timeline without Barry Allen (since that Barry is now in the new timeline).

The thing is, there is no other timeline anymore.  What Barry did ERASED and REPLACED the timeline.  One can theorize in some other copy of earth in some other universe that Baby Sara continues on, but on E1 there is only the existing timeline going forward.  The one we had before ceased to existed and so did Baby Sara. 

[Trini]

5 minutes ago, Carrie Ann said:

And then someone tells him that what he did was okay because of reasons, or that he can't keep feeling guilty, he just has to move forward. Like, no, just...go ahead and feel really guilty for awhile? Maybe forever? Cisco's brother is now dead and that's your fault. You should definitely feel bad about that, forever, basically, and Cisco should not forgive you if he doesn't want to.

They have shown him feeling guilty; but he should be allowed to have other emotions too. Nobody wants to see him mopey all the time. I do think he's always going to feel bad about getting his father killed, though. Barry definitely created created a new timeline, but I don't think he can be held directly responsible for Dante's death. It was a car accident. He might have died another way in the other timeline.

Quote

Basically, I want Barry's consequences to fall on Barry more than any other person, including people who die because of him. ("Fridging" exists as a criticism because fiction tends to treat the loss of a woman as somehow worse for the dude who survived than the woman whose life was cut short.) I want him to have interpersonal, career, other life consequences. Maybe the citizens of Central City/The World could stop seeing The Flash as such a perfect hero when he's actually put all of their lives second to his own, repeatedly. Maybe he could lose his job for neglecting his duties. Maybe more than one of his friends/family could get and stay mad at him, break off their personal relationship, hold him accountable instead of relieving him of his guilt.

I don't Barry's ever been seen as perfect. There have been interpersonal consequences -- the people in the timeline he is in now are NOT actually the people he has history with. (And they may be setting up a conflict with him and Wally.) At work, there's a new antagonist co-worker who he has to me careful around, now that he has to share the lab. Then there's the villain who knows that Barry changed the timeline and is now creating(kinda?) metas to restore Flashpoint.

He did get called out by Reverse Flash, Cisco, Jay Garrick, and Harry -- and the EPs have said there's other stuff that will be happening throughout the season.

[thegirlsleuth]

With tonight's Walking Dead episode, I was reminded of a review Alan Sepinwell wrote in the spring as to why he was no longer going to watch the show.  At the time that he wrote it I thought of Arrow, but in re-reading it tonight (and trying to console a couple of very unhappy Walking Dead fans) I think more of Flash.  There were a couple of quotes in his comments about The Walking Dead that jumped out at me: 

For each good thing recent episodes have accomplished, the show has found a way to undermine it through shortcuts and other bad choices that seem to be more about keeping the narrative on track with what happened in the comics than fitting in with what the TV versions of the characters would think or do.

While Guggenheim has admitted that when stuck on a plot they just make Oliver stupid, I think there is larger scale stupidity on the Flash in order the get showdowns to play the way they want.  I understood why Barry went back the first time to save his mother--it was really moving--but I also thought he should have learned that saving his mom came with costs and was surprised when he did it again.  The thing is, I think the reason Barry didn't learn his lesson was that the writers wanted Flashpoint because it was so cool in the comics, and were willing to throw Barry's emotional and moral growth out the window to get it.  Arrow has never been as wedded to the comics, but I'm still puzzling as to why, for example, they have Curtis turning into Mr. Terrific after one mugging except for "because comics".  It doesn't fit the onscreen version.  

Another quote I liked:  When I'm at a point with a show where all I can see are the narrative strings being pulled by the creative team, and where my view of the characters is so wildly different from that of the writers (who, for instance, can't allow Rick to ever be wrong about anything, even though he's often clearly an idiot), then it's pretty much time to stop watching.

I felt this way about Oliver after the garbage fire storyline and how Felicity ended up under the bus, but it seems like the same could be said about Barry.

There are spoilers through the end of last season, but no spoilers for tonight:  Read more Why Tonights Walking Dead Has me on the Verge of Quitting the Show.

Edited October 24, 2016 by thegirlsleuth

[statsgirl]

12 minutes ago, Trini said:

 There have been interpersonal consequences -- the people in the timeline he is in now are NOT actually the people he has history with. (And they may be setting up a conflict with him and Wally.) At work, there's a new antagonist co-worker who he has to me careful around, now that he has to share the lab. Then there's the villain who knows that Barry changed the timeline and is now creating(kinda?) metas to restore Flashpoint

But the consequences are really to the other people not to Barry.  The most obvious is Cisco who lost his brother. Yes, Barry no longer has cutesy Cisco to work with but Cisco lost his brother. 

The conflict with a co-worker says more about how ridiculously everyone loved and forgave Barry in his previous timelines than about the consequences of his actions.  Who here hasn't have a conflict with a co-worker?  That's part of normal life.

When Barry opened the rift to the other Earths and let the monsters in.  the residents of Central City were so happy that he cleaned up the papers that they held a The Flash day.

Barry feels guilty but it's obviously not enough since he's made the same selfish mistake two seasons in a row now -- deliberately trying to change the timeline to make over the world to what he wants.  I guess Ronnie's death and all those new villains wasn't enough.

[wonderwall]

18 minutes ago, Trini said:

They have shown him feeling guilty; but he should be allowed to have other emotions too. Nobody wants to see him mopey all the time. I do think he's always going to feel bad about getting his father killed, though. Barry definitely created created a new timeline, but I don't think he can be held directly responsible for Dante's death. It was a car accident. He might have died another way in the other timeline.

I just have to say... Barry feeling bad about the shit he pulled isn't really a consequence of his actions. And if you consider it to be, I don't think it's good enough. If Barry wants to decide to play god and control what happens to him and his loved ones, then he should feel more than 'bad' when he fucks up. 

And to be honest, the writers not wanting Barry to be mopey is a ridiculous reason for him not to suffer some consequences. It's sort of like saying, "Hey! Oliver suffered for 5 years but he can't be too broody or deal with PTSD because that's not fun" It's insulting the audience's intelligence and setts up a horrible example for kids because it promotes selfishness. If the writers don't want Barry to be moody, it's simple... Don't have him do f*cked up things out of selfishness.

Pardon my french. I tend to swear a lot more when I'm tired...

[catrox14]

7 minutes ago, Trini said:

I don't Barry's ever been seen as perfect. There have been interpersonal consequences -- the people in the timeline he is in now are NOT actually the people he has history with. (And they may be setting up a conflict with him and Wally.) At work, there's a new antagonist co-worker who he has to me careful around, now that he has to share the lab. Then there's the villain who knows that Barry changed the timeline and is now creating(kinda?) metas to restore Flashpoint.

Is getting called out for fucking up the universe/timeline really a consequence?

[calliope1975]

Barry should have gotten it in the first season finale when other Barry literally told him not to save his mother. When your own damn self tells you not to do something, maybe don't do it. And then a year later, he does it anyway. 

And I'm supposed to believe this time he's learned? Why? 

Even more egregious is he's fucking up stuff on other shows. On my show. If only for that, a few tears and moping around isn't going to cut it. Sara Diggle deserves better, and I'll never forgive that jerkoff for that. 

[wonderwall]

I blame the writers for erasing a WoC from the Arrowverse... But I also blame Barry's fuckery. If it wasn't for him and his stupid ass actions, this wouldn't have happened because there literally would've been no way for the writers to do something so fucked up.

[Trini]

25 minutes ago, thegirlsleuth said:

The thing is, I think the reason Barry didn't learn his lesson was that the writers wanted Flashpoint because it was so cool in the comics, and were willing to throw Barry's emotional and moral growth out the window to get it.

I agree. A better time to do Flashpoint would have been the end of Season 1. They had actually had moments throughout Season 2 with Barry getting over making peace with his mother's death and forgiving Reverse Flash -- then they nixed all that for a storyline that didn't even last two episodes.

35 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Is getting called out for fucking up the universe/timeline really a consequence?

People have been asking for it to happen repeatedly. The writers listened.

[catrox14]

2 minutes ago, Trini said:

People have been asking for it to happen repeatedly. The writers listened.

It's a minimal and appropriate response but IMO not an actual consequence. 

[wonderwall]

I'm not entirely sure about this but...

Iris and Joe lost their relationship with one another for years along with years of memories. 

Caitlin lost her semblance of a normal life now that she's a meta. 

Cisco lost his brother. 

What notable thing did Barry lose that he didn't lose before he went back in time to save his mom? 

Barry feels bad and a couple people called him out for his selfishness? Tough. Because what he's facing due to his actions is most likely nothing compared to what his supposed loved ones are facing or have faced. 

[Thundercatmary]

IMO it would have been more fitting if after Barry "fixed" the timeline Iris barely knew him. I think it would have made for better storytelling this season also but hey, I'm not a writer mores the pity. :D  

[lemotomato]

Sure, Barry screws up everyone's life except his own because he's a selfish moron that never learns his lesson, but hey, he finally gets to be with his true love!

::Oliver Queen looks at the camera like he's in "The Office"::

[looptab]

10 hours ago, Lokiberry said:

Cold and Rip, and replaced them with a boring, vanilla goody two-shoes. 

I haven't had the time to watch LOT yet, what happened with Rip? I mean, did the actor leave the series, or is it just for a plot and we will still see him in the episodes?

[Lokiberry]

1 hour ago, looptab said:

I haven't had the time to watch LOT yet, what happened with Rip? I mean, did the actor leave the series, or is it just for a plot and we will still see him in the episodes?

Rip disappeared, and no one knows where he is. It's been implied that he will at least come back in some capacity, but the actor hasn't been on set for months and is in London right now.

[dtissagirl]

I'm 100% sure the Flash EPs believe they can have Barry live without consequences because Grant Gustin looks like a human golden retriever. They can write for plot because they assume the audience's main reaction will always ever be "awww".

It's the exact same way they write Oliver being an idiot, like, say, when he finds out he has a surprise demon spawn, but the severe application of the lost puppy face lets the writers make the narrative side with him.

[CabotCove]

Quote

Nobody wants to see him mopey all the time. I do think he's always going to feel bad about getting his father killed, though.

Oh yeah almost forgot Barry's dad did die , so now he is a "full" orphan, I guess bad things do happen to him after all

[apinknightmare]

Seems like dying is a bad thing that happened to Barry's dad as far as consequences go, not Barry. 

Edited October 24, 2016 by apinknightmare

[Thundercatmary]

Bad things happen to everybody, that's not the same thing as facing consequences for your actions IMO.

[apinknightmare]

Just now, Thundercatmary said:

Bad things happen to everybody, that's not the same thing as facing consequences for your actions IMO.

Agreed. A consequence would be having one of his relationships suffer for his stupidity for longer than half an episode. But there has to be a desire to make that happen on the part of the writers, and there isn't. Like, even Iris's speech about forgiving him for his "mistake" was gaslighting the audience about the fact that Barry didn't run back in time on a whim - he knew what he was doing and even went to see her before he did it (even though she doesn't know that). And I'm not even fully convinced he won't run back in time again - I would bet actual money that something's going to happen to Iris and he's gonna run back in time to undo it. 

[dtissagirl]

This show doesn't even think through on Barry's actions, no wonder he suffers no consequence. He literally went to a psychopath and asked to have his mother murdered. He did that. And... it's seen as a ~sacrifice~, because poor woobiekins. He took a fucking hit on his mother, and I'm supposed to think he's all right? LOLNO.
 

Edited October 24, 2016 by dtissagirl

[Starfish35]

Yeah....that... I think that was my breaking point.  In the Flashpoint movie, he just stops himself from saving her.  He doesn't actually set her murder in motion.  I'm sorry but that's just....too far.  At least for me. :(

[Angel12d]

One day Barry will probably kill someone and Iris will say "It's okay Barry, don't worry about it. That person ran into your knife. It was their fault. Don't feel guilty about it!"

For the record I don't think this will happen but the habit of excusing his bad behavior is enough of a pattern now. 

[dtissagirl]

6 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Yeah....that... I think that was my breaking point.  In the Flashpoint movie, he just stops himself from saving her.  He doesn't actually set her murder in motion.  I'm sorry but that's just....too far.  At least for me. :(

It's also because the stakes are really really low. Wally is in critical condition, but not dead. And then there's the HILARITY of them using the fact that Barry is losing his memories of the old reality as a stake. Dear moronic writers, this is not an actual real problem that needs a timeline reset, and shame on you forever for implying it is.

You need more to justify your hero protagonist ordering a hit on his mother. The fabric of the universe has to be collapsing and all fourteen quatrillion people in all of the multiverse are dying. Then I would get it. But the way they set it up? Nah, son.

The part that irritates me is I KNOW IN MY BONES, BERLANTI, that your writers room think this is OK because Barry's mother was supposed to be dead anyway. Because she's not really a character, she's just the person who dies over and over again so Barry can woobie.

[tv echo]

Previews of this week's Gotham, Arrow and LoT episodes...

Arrow Turns Criminal + Penguin Loves Riddler?
Published on Oct 24, 2016, by DC Entertainment

[looptab]

2 hours ago, dtissagirl said:

 And then there's the HILARITY of them using the fact that Barry is losing his memories of the old reality as a stake. Dear moronic writers, this is not an actual real problem that needs a timeline reset, and shame on you forever for implying it is.

I think the issue is that the writers knew it was a temporary thing, and it was written like Barry considered it temporary too.  It's like Barry was," I'll be in this vacation reality where my family is for a while. Oh, shit, I'm forgetting stuff from my actual reality! I need to leave!"Was it supposed to be this way?

 

That preview is ridiculous. On Arrow, Oliver gets Diggle out of prison, and...that's it. On Legends, EPIC battles and WOWs and OMG! And he even managed to mention all the characters!

Edited October 24, 2016 by looptab