S03.E11: Uncharted

[Athena]

Quote

After making a leap of faith, Claire washes up on a seemingly deserted island where survival is her only option. Navigating treacherous waters has crippled the Artemis, so Jamie devises a joyful moment for his crew in the midst of devastating setbacks.

Reminder: The is the book talk thread. This can include spoilers for ALL the books. If you wish to remain unspoiled for any of the books, please leave now and head to the No Book Talk episode thread.

[toolazy]

The only thing I didn't like - and it's kind of a big thing - is the coconut.  Who thought that was a good idea?  Otherwise, I was crying like mad. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

The last 20 odd minutes were the best part for me. I don’t think the Turtle Soup scene here was quite the same as in the buik, but since my mind is pretty much a blank from here on out, I might as well be a non-buik reader. But I loved the reunion on the beach and the last 10 minutes. From what others here have said about looking forward to Fergus and Marsali’s wedding-I think it’s going to be a letdown? Because it wasn’t hilarious, though I did smile and find it amusing.

Too much time spent on showing Claire’s traipsing through the island until she passed out. Again with the gross factor by showing the chigger bites and her scratching her puir legs.

Mamacita was nothing short of an obnoxious bitch and I wanted Claire to knock her upside the head.

Just as they didn’t show Jamie rowing until he reached Claire on the beach, the show didn’t have to show Claire, thirsty, struggling to light a fire, blah, blah, fucking BLAH! A full 27 minutes devoted to that nonsense. We don’t see Jamie until the :42 mark.

Graphia can just keep her mouth shut whenever she feels the need to say “Iconic moment in the buik,” because it’s pissing me off. Purely because I know it, along with others, got short changed.

I want the old writers back for next season. Either that, or listen to Gabaldon and make them read the buiks!!???

Edited November 26, 2017 by GHScorpiosRule

[Dust Bunny]

Best title card ever? 

The wedding was great. Not as fun as the book, but it'll do. Lauren Lyle continues to impress. She does a lot with little dialogue. I want to see more César.

There was a sweetness to this episode. Not as much outright humor as the book, but the genuine sentiment was beautiful.

10 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Just as they didn’t show Jamie rowing until he reached Claire on the beach, the show didn’t have to show Claire, thirsty, struggling to light a fire, blah, blah, fucking BLAH! A full 27 minutes devoted to that nonsense. We don’t see Jamie until the :42 mark.

Yup. I'm trying to get my sister-in-law, who is in town for Thanksgiving, into the show. She went to bed during those 27 never-ending minutes and missed the best parts. I kept saying, "There are 2 scenes in this episode that will be wonderful!" Still, understandably, she couldn't hang in that long. Argh! The pacing on this show can be so off-putting. At least it's not The Walking Dead, I guess.

I watched the beach reunion 5 times. Between that and Turtle Soup... I can't imagine anyone else in those roles, except for Sam and Cait.

Another good episode, with a few great moments. 

On the whole, I think the writers are doing a great job at condensing and adapting the book. I like how many unnecessary things have been cut. I miss Lawrence a bit, but introducing him would take time away from Jamie and Claire. I love how Yi Tien Cho has been written. I had worries that character would be awful. However, the show has not only given him more to do (by cutting some other characters), there is a depth to his character that is so much stronger than the book. If this season's adaptations are anything to go by, I have high hopes for this show going forward.

Bring on Lord John Grey next week!

[Cloudberryjam]

I....liked it. Turtle soup is a great book scene; This is another one i think that suffered from too much buildup/expectations in my mind.  I thought the jungle sequence was well done, but knowing how much more plot there is to cover in two episodes, i kept looking at the clock...way too much jungle time. Jamie and Claires beach reunion—that was more like it!  Joy and surprise and love coming through!  I liked Willoughbys Murtagh-like attitude in the beach scene. The giving of the Fraser name to Fergus was sweet. Those two Highlander crew guys are annoying.  I think when the whole season is avail for rewatch, this one will blend in better...

[millahnna]

53 minutes ago, Cloudberryjam said:

I liked Willoughbys Murtagh-like attitude in the beach scene.

I loved that.  Since show Murtagh is alive (right? mind like a steel sieve over here), I'd be delighted if they ever meet up.

[theschnauzers]

The writers did manage to make known that Claire had drifted onto northern Haiti, but it was obscure unless you recognized what Father F was referencing to. And that made the route Jamie was taking to Jamaica more clear.

The first 27 minutes might have benefited from some cross cutting with what Jamie, Fergus and Marsali were going through with the ship hitting shoals, that POV might have been beneficial.

Wedding scene, reunion scene, the scenes with Father F and Mamacita, the turtle soup scene were all fine and would have worked as well, even the Arabella scene would have still worked, but I can see why some think half an episode of Claire’s being washed ashore and wandering aimlessly was a bit much. And yes, the goats were just fine. If I recall correctly, Black Sails also used goats with Haiti and the Bahamas, so that was just fine.

Edited November 26, 2017 by theschnauzers

[Glaze Crazy]

1 hour ago, Dust Bunny said:

Another good episode, with a few great moments. 

On the whole, I think the writers are doing a great job at condensing and adapting the book. I like how many unnecessary things have been cut. I miss Lawrence a bit, but introducing him would take time away from Jamie and Claire. I love how Yi Tien Cho has been written. I had worries that character would be awful. However, the show has not only given him more to do (by cutting some other characters), there is a depth to his character that is so much stronger than the book. If this season's adaptations are anything to go by, I have high hopes for this show going forward.

My thoughts too, Dust Bunny.

I'm laughing at all you guys about the exact time of 27 minutes for the first part. I also thought it was dragging on but I wasn't watching the clock. I don't have a fear of snakes, in general, if I know they are OK to handle, but nope, nope, nope on waking up and finding one slithering across my chest. Same for the ant swarm. That right there would get me sleeping up in a tree for the next night, if possible.

Last week and this week are more just getting our heroes from point A to point B. I'm glad the high seas adventure for this section is about over and we are getting to some more interesting intrigue (I hope) on Jamaica.

[mrsjoe]

Love that you guys timed it out because I too thought it was way too long and slow for how much the show has been trying to cram into one season. I hit the forward ten seconds A LOT, but that may have more to do with starting the episode at 2:30am and wanting to get to the good stuff.

Interesting that they left in Mamasita's immediate dislike for Claire, but then didn't juxtapose it with her liking Marsali, mainly because Claire is taller and Marsali was short.

I was waiting for a quick mention of her two daughters during the Marsali talk and a bit sad they left it out. Still, in spite of being bored for half, I was left with a good impression of the episode overall. Not looking forward to how they are going to depict the slave trade next week (at least I assume that part is next week...)

[Petunia846]

The cut from falling asleep to her legs covered in ants was the most horrific thing I've ever seen on this show, and that's saying something for Outlander. OMG. Of course I used to have nightmares as a kid about different bugs swarming my bed that were so vivid I'd have to turn on the lights and pull the sheets off to check, so maybe that's just me. The snake just made me laugh.

The actual moment of reunion on the beach was good, but the rest of the beach scenes, before and after that, were pretty terrible. Between the blatant infodumping and the show trying to force Not!Rupert and Not!Angus on us, they were really hard to watch. I was especially annoyed with the scene where Claire's arm is getting stitched up. She's wincing and in pain, they've just been reunited after almost losing each other, and Jamie is just lounging around in the background drinking without offering her any kind of comfort. In the book he's holding her and you can tell he's hating it too. Here he's just like, "Whatev's, yo. Blah blah blah."

The wedding was good. I laughed a lot at Marsali's lines, especially, "If you'd hurry up and get on with it, I could check." (Or whatever it was that she said exactly...) And of course the naming part was good too. Very sweet.

All I kept thinking through the first 27 minutes was, "This is why montages were invented..." *sigh* (Bless Cait, though. What a trooper for acting all of that out. She did a great job with it.)

Edited November 26, 2017 by Petunia846

[areca]

I really do not think I'm going to be around for much longer unless they get the original writers back on board.  Jamie and Claire do not look 40 and 50 respectively.  Jaime's character is just...off.  All season, something is just off.  This whole section was boring, but there were moments of nice.  I like the characterization of Marsali, but I can't understand a word she says when she's speaking quickly.  We definitely should have seen the gale that killed the Porpoise.

[Petunia846]

Oh, also, I meant to say, I loved when she ripped into the bumroll for kindling and then just ended up dropping it in the fire. Finally that piece of youknowwhat is actually useful. I can't believe she even kept it on when she jumped off the ship, but I guess it finally came in handy.

[BryroseA]

2 hours ago, Petunia846 said:

The cut from falling asleep to her legs covered in ants was the most horrific thing I've ever seen on this show, and that's saying something for Outlander. OMG. 

RIGHT? Holy crap that was awful. I’d take a thousand vomiting sailors over that image any day. 

So did Claire foresee the need for a signaling device and that’s why she snatched the small mirror all stealth-like? Because that seems like some pretty prescient thinking, to me. 

[SoTheresThat]

24 minutes ago, BryroseA said:

RIGHT? Holy crap that was awful. I’d take a thousand vomiting sailors over that image any day. 

So did Claire foresee the need for a signaling device and that’s why she snatched the small mirror all stealth-like? Because that seems like some pretty prescient thinking, to me. 

When she stuck the mirror in her pocket, I thought she was going to break it and stab the father with it since he was reluctant to let her leave.  I'm glad that didn't happen.

[Starla]

"Fergus Claudel Fraser" is my favorite moment of this season so far. The relationship between him and Jamie makes my heart happy. 

[TheWereCow]

Quote

So did Claire foresee the need for a signaling device and that’s why she snatched the small mirror all stealth-like? Because that seems like some pretty prescient thinking, to me. 

If I was about to tramp off through the jungle with a man whose spirit guide is a coconut, I'd take anything I could find. Signal flares, stray carrier pigeon, anything.

[Petunia846]

1 hour ago, SoTheresThat said:

When she stuck the mirror in her pocket, I thought she was going to break it and stab the father with it since he was reluctant to let her leave.  I'm glad that didn't happen.

Yeah, at the moment I thought it was for a weapon, but I also didn't realize it was a little square mirror, I just thought it was some broken glass.

[WatchrTina]

9 hours ago, Dust Bunny said:

There was a sweetness to this episode. Not as much outright humor as the book, but the genuine sentiment was beautiful.

I listened to this part of the book on the drive to/from my brother's house for Thanksgiving.  I laughed out loud a LOT.  I had forgotten how many very funny moments there are in this section of the book.  I didn't laugh nearly as much watching so I morn the loss of many of those moments. But yes, they did manage to keep some of them and we got several excellent heart-tugging moments like when Jamie gives his name to Fergus.

9 hours ago, Dust Bunny said:

The pacing on this show can be so off-putting.

True dat.  As we slogged through the jungle I simultaneously thought "Well at least Claire's not having to deal with a rising tide in a mangrove forest (like she did in the book) so maybe she'll be found by Jamie's naturalist friend all the sooner" coupled with "Ew ants!  Ew snake!  Why did we have to see that!"  I think it will be better for me on the second go-round when I'm not having nonstop book-vs-show thoughts.  

8 hours ago, theschnauzers said:

The first 27 minutes might have benefited from some cross cutting with what Jamie, Fergus and Marsali were going through with the ship hitting shoals, that POV might have been beneficial.

Hmmmm.  I don't know if that world have worked since a lot of the tension in the episode is wondering where Jamie is and assuming he's on a ship under full sail, moving further and further away from Claire every second.  That's the key driver of the rising tension in the episode. That and concerns over just HOW crazy Father Fogden was.  Did anyone else get a Stephen King / Misery vibe when Claire woke up tied to the bed?  I think that was deliberate.  And it was exacerbated when Father Fogden kept lengthening the amount of time Claire would need to recuperate before he could take her to the village.  First it was one week, then it was two. That gave a glimmer of just how easily Claire's situation could  have become dire if Father Fogden was dangerously crazy.  In the book you have the mitigating influence of the naturalist Mr. Stern (who is later revealed to be Jamie's friend in one of the most absurdly Dickensian coincidences of the whole series).  He is the one who finds Claire and brings her to Father Fogden and it he who reveals to the reader that Book!Father Fogden is not so much crazy as he is perpetually stoned from smoking pot.  TV!Father Fogden has a much greater whiff of the sinister about him in this episode and, ironically, it's Mamacita (who comes across as malevolent in the book) who actually saves the day here, brining word of the "Chinaman" on the beach and telling Claire where to go to be reunited with Jamie.

7 hours ago, Glaze Crazy said:

nope, nope, nope on waking up and finding one slithering across my chest. Same for the ant swarm. That right there would get me sleeping up in a tree for the next night, if possible.

In the book Claire DOES sleep up a tree.  She has no choice as the storm-drivien high tide forces her to climb of a Mangrove tree.

4 hours ago, Petunia846 said:

The actual moment of reunion on the beach was good, but the rest of the beach scenes, before and after that, were pretty terrible. Between the blatant infodumping and the show trying to force Not!Rupert and Not!Angus on us, they were really hard to watch.

OMG that first scene where Jamie and Fergus casually recap how the ship ended up on the beach and how the captain has died -- that was painful to watch.  I can only imagine Sam and Cesar at the table-read trying to figure out how to infuse some naturalness into that info-dump.  The later scene when a sailor I didn't recognize (is he the one Jamie snatches the looking glass from at the beginning of the last episode?) "reminds" Jamie that Jamie is now in charge is equally info-dumpy.  Alas, I don't know how it could have been done any better.  If it was Game of Thrones there would be fucking going on in the background (the infamous "sexposition" scenes) so at least we can be grateful Outlander didn't have to resort to that.

4 hours ago, Petunia846 said:

I was especially annoyed with the scene where Claire's arm is getting stitched up. She's wincing and in pain, they've just been reunited after almost losing each other, and Jamie is just lounging around in the background drinking without offering her any kind of comfort. In the book he's holding her and you can tell he's hating it too. Here he's just like, "Whatev's, yo. Blah blah blah."

Huh.  I didn't actually notice that (probably because I marveling at the writers having removed the entire pirate attack and having replaced Claire's cutlass wound with a vicious assault by a shrub.)  But now that you mention that, it's probably going to bug the crap out of me.  The only fan-wank I can come up with is that the cutlass wound in the book is MUCH worse, requiring something like 40 stitches and Claire is at risk of death due to blood loss.  TV!Claire's wound is nasty but not life-threatening.  It's much more like the wounds Claire has stitched up on Jamie time and time again.  So I guess I can understand TV!Jamie being somewhat blasé about the process.

3 hours ago, Petunia846 said:

I loved when she ripped into the bumroll for kindling and then just ended up dropping it in the fire. Finally that piece of youknowwhat is actually useful. I can't believe she even kept it on when she jumped off the ship, but I guess it finally came in handy.

I had the opposite reaction.  I thought "NO!  You just determined that the stuffing makes for great kindling.  SAVE the rest of the bum-roll for later!  That might not be the last fire you have to light!" Sheesh!  Now shall we all join hands and just whistle past the sheer absurdity of Claire's having tripped over a piece flint as she ran?  And what, exactly, was she striking the flint with?  Don't you need flint and steel to strike a spark?

2 hours ago, BryroseA said:

So did Claire foresee the need for a signaling device and that’s why she snatched the small mirror all stealth-like? Because that seems like some pretty prescient thinking, to me. 

Everybody keep whistling.

Edited November 26, 2017 by WatchrTina

[Petunia846]

4 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

Huh.  I didn't actually notice that (probably because I marveling at the writers having removed the entire pirate attack and having replaced Claire's cutlass wound with a vicious assault by a shrub.)  But now that you mention that, it's probably going to bug the crap out of me.  The only fan-wank I can come up with is that the cutlass wound in the book is MUCH worse, requiring something like 40 stitches and Claire is at risk of death due to blood loss.  TV!Claire's wound is nasty but not life-threatening.  It's much more like the wounds Claire has stitched up on Jamie time and time again.  So I guess I can understand TV!Jamie being somewhat blasé about the process.

This is when I admit that, while everyone else is rereading the turtle soup scene, I'm the one who rereads from the bit where Claire "falls out of the sky" and promptly passes out until the getting stitched up bit.

[WatchrTina]

Yeah, I enjoyed that too.  Jamie -- brave, strong, heroic Book!Jamie -- is so freaked out at the prospect of having nearly lost Claire AGAIN coupled with the need to stitch up a really horrible wound that his hands are shaking and he's all but useless.  Mr. Willoughby to the rescue!

And then they find the HUGE dead pirate who fell from the rigging and everyone looks at Claire with new respect.  (Never mind that it was the pelican Ping An that killed him.)

Edited November 26, 2017 by WatchrTina

[GHScorpiosRule]

It wasn’t my intent to clock Claire during her long walk through the island, but when she passed out and the puppy found her, I glanced at the dvr clock and it was 12:27. Then more with Fogden and Mamacita, until we got that scene of Jamie in the beach and it was 12:42. I only looked because of all the discussion how they were going to wrap everything up with only three episodes left.

But I will say again, just as I enjoy a drunk Jamie, I also love and enjoy a drunk Claire. I found myself with a big giant grin as she drank the soup, flirted with Jamie, asking him to come closer and that giggly laugh as she kissed him. I really love them when they’re like that! Just makes my ?????

And when Claire grabbed Jamie’s...hmmm...well, his penis, and the look on his face, I ????

And I’m glad the episode ended on a happy note and not another dire or ominous one. And yay! Wee Ian next week!

[toolazy]

So I'm the only one who hated the coconut?  

[GingerMarie]

Loved every minute of this episode.  toolazy 'the coconut' was a puppy love for me......No really I enjoyed the episode from start to finish.  Claire's freckles were awesome.  The wedding scene was not like the  book but adapted well to TV.  I do love a drunk Claire.  Well done to the Outlander Cast and Crew. PEACE

[nodorothyparker]

This is one of those episodes that would have worked pretty well on its own if I wasn't watching the clock waiting waiting waiting for Claire to get through the jungle for something to happen and then mentally counting how many things are still left to happen in the whopping two episodes left for the season.  That enormous look of horror on your face when you wake up already ant bit and dehydrated for all you know on a deserted island with a huge snake slithering across your neck?  Yeah, that's you trying desperately not to think that maybe you were a bit hasty with the whole let's go back in time to colonial days, what could possibly go wrong? 

Jamie and Fergus did the best they could, I think, in doing the huge infodump on the beach as to how they just happened to wash up on that particular shore at that particular time.  Jamie and Claire were written better or least less awkwardly this episode than they have been at times since their Big Reunion.  The crazy father and the wedding didn't have me snorting out loud like the book versions do, but they were done well enough.  I'm not really a fan of NotAngus and NotRupert, at least in part because their accents are so thick I can barely understand what they're saying, but I did love whichever one remarking that "Mac Dubh's woman" does seem to have a knack for showing up in the strangest times and places.

Captain Flint never got to use his captain's quarters like that, at least not onscreen.  

[ElsieH]

It was okay for me. Why on earth is Claire still not responding to Jamie when he makes these big declarations? She just went through all that for him and when he's telling her how much he loves her she has nothing to say? Thought that was just really weird. And the jungle stuff was too long. I told my husband she really needed to stop sleeping after the snake haha. 

[theschnauzers]

3 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

Hmmmm.  I don't know if that world have worked since a lot of the tension in the episode is wondering where Jamie is and assuming he's on a ship under full sail, moving further and further away from Claire every second.  That's the key driver of the rising tension in the episode. That and concerns over just HOW crazy Father Fogden was.  Did anyone else get a Stephen King / Misery vibe when Claire woke up tied to the bed?  I think that was deliberate.  And it was exacerbated when Father Fogden kept lengthening the amount of time Claire would need to recuperate before he could take her to the village.  First it was one week, then it was two. That gave a glimmer of just how easily Claire's situation could  have become dire if Father Fogden was dangerously crazy.  In the book you have the mitigating influence of the naturalist Mr. Stern (who is later revealed to be Jamie's friend in one of the most absurdly Dickensian coincidences of the whole series).  He is the one who finds Claire and brings her to Father Fogden and it he who reveals to the reader that Book!Father Fogden is not so much crazy as he is perpetually stoned from smoking pot.  TV!Father Fogden has a much greater whiff of the sinister about him in this episode and, ironically, it's Mamacita (who comes across as malevolent in the book) who actually saves the day here, brining word of the "Chinaman" on the beach and telling Claire where to go to be reunited with Jamie.

 

One reason why I think it could have worked is that no one, including the viewer, would have known that Jamie and Claire had separately come to the same island, until the Arabelle incident came up and Mamacita sees/mentions the "Chinaman." But it would have helped the flow in the first half of the episode.

[WatchrTina]

THE GOOD

Well, I’m not sure if it qualifies as “good” but it’s interesting.  When Father Fogden observes that Claire will need new clothes and suggests Erman-whatever’s dress, it comes across as vaguely sinister.  Unlike the book, there is only one dress (instead of a room full of them) and the good Father seems WAY to eager to get Claire into it.  Mamacita’s refusal, noting that Claire is much to big and proposing instead that Claire clothe herself in one of Fogden's robes  -- well that took on a whole new meaning for me.  I got the feeling that Mamacita had a pretty good idea that Father Fogden’s enthusiasm for seeing Claire in a dress that belonged to his dearly departed Ermangillamoster was something more than just Christian charity.  I think Mamacita’s notion of having Claire wrap herself in a shapeless robe (and a symbol of Fogden's religious calling) was her way of throwing cold water on any inappropriate ideas that might be forming in Father Fogden’s addled mind.  (Alas they ruined it by making it a regular man’s robe and not the monk’s robe she wore in the book.  How much do you want to bet that non-readers don’t even understand that Fogden is a disgraced priest?  His status as a priest is mentioned three times but I’ll still bet they were VERY confused when he begins conducting the wedding ceremony.)

Aww.  We did catch a glimpse of the new-born goat (the good omen that accompanied Claire’s arrival.)

I did like that Mamacita’s special dish was vegetarian.  Given the close personal relationship that they seem to have with the goats it makes sense that they would have adopted a vegetarian or perhaps pescaterian diet (eggs and milk but no animal flesh except fish).  That being said, I don’t want to think any further about the good Father’s close personal relationship with his goats.

If I had had any doubts that Father Fogden’s motives were dubious the somber music that kicks in when he says she must stay at least a week certainly removed all doubt.  And then Claire makes a rare misstep, saying “Christ” as a curse word in front of a “priest” whose mental stability is in serious doubt.  That scene amps up the tension nicely.

Claire steals the mirror in the very next scene.  The first time I watched I thought that made NO sense. (“When did Claire become a kleptomaniac” I wondered.)  Then I scoffed at her conveniently having the mirror with which to signal the ship at the end.  But upon second viewing I saw that the scene where she steals the mirror comes right after the tense conversation at the dinner table.  Claire hears Fogden and Mamacita arguing but Claire does not speak Spanish so she doesn’t know that Mamacita has the upper hand in that argument and that she’s insisted that Claire leave.  Claire would be feeling vulnerable at that moment and so her taking the mirror as a possible weapon (she could break it and use the sharp edges to defend herself) makes sense. 

The look on Claire’s face when Fogden says “I will consult with Coco in the morning” is just perfect – dismay mingled with confusion in the face of his continued craziness.  I love the way the writers played with us in that scene.  I thought Fogden had come around.  Between Mamacita’s having ordered Claire out of the house and his sympathetic response to Claire talking about the need to find her husband, I thought he could now be counted on to help her.  But no, still cray-cray.

Father Fogden mentions Abandewe!  A place of great power.  And people disappear there.  Ooooh, nice foreshadowing.  I’m also glad they found a plot-necessary reason to include the skull-cleaning bugs (even though that scene is kind of gross.)

 

Lesley:  MacDubh’s wife turns up in the most unlikely of places, does she not?

Hayes:  Aye.  She just drops in out of nowhere.

That is CLEARLY an homage to the pirate scene in the book that they have apparently cut, in which a bleeding Claire literally drops to the deck from the rigging, surprising everyone.  I like it.

 

I loved Mr. Willoughby’s speech of apology to Father Fogden.  It was perfect.  I was a bit concerned though, when he took a hit off of Fogden’s pipe at the end of that scene.  Book!Willoughby has a wee bit of a substance abuse problem, ye ken?  I wonder if Mr. Willoughby has had any prior experience with wacky tobaccky.

I liked their interpretation of the highly-anticipated “Turtle Soup” scene.  And I had to laugh when the scene cuts to black and Diana Gabaldon’s consultant credit appears on screen.  Never was it more appropriately placed.

 

THE BAD

Claire tripping over a piece of flint is just a bit too convenient.  I can fan-wank that Claire is familiar with flint (she probably carried some during her first sojourn in the past) and so would recognize it if she saw it but it seems unlikely that she would stumble across it.  Is flint is something formed in the heart of volcanoes?  If so, then maybe the island she is on was formed as the result of prehistoric volcanic activity and is riddled with flint as a result.  If so, okay.  But that’s a lot to expect the viewer to follow.

How, exactly, does wrapping strips of cloths around a portion (but not all) of your calves in any way alleviate the pain and itching of dozens of ant bites?  That seemed like a bit of nonsense.  I’m assuming that all of TV!Claire’s medical activities are based on research but that’s one action that made no sense to me.  Does binding bug bites make them itch less?

When Claire finds the coconut palm I expected her to at least TRY to knock one out of the tree.  Shouldn’t she have thrown a few rocks to see if she could dislodge one?  The Claire who wanders around the jungle for the first 20 minutes of this episode swings from super competent (finding the flint and making a fire) to remarkably ineffectual.

The image of a big honking snake crawling across just-awoken Claire is very dramatic but the notion that she didn’t feel it before it was draped all the way across her body is just silly.  Then again, maybe she was dreaming of Jamie and thought it was his arm slipping lovingly around her?  Hmmmm. That’s still quite of a stretch.

Jamie’s and Fergus' exposition dump while Claire runs through the jungle toward them –  well let’s just say that was not the show’s finest moment.  I was also frustrated that time was moving more quickly on the beach than in the jungle.  There had to have been several hours between the very first scene on the beach (when repairs were still underway) vs. when Claire arrived on the beach (when everyone from the Artemis was back on board the ship and the repaired mast was in place.)  Clearly Claire didn’t run for hours nor, for that matter, did Mamacita run back from the beach for hours after finding Arabella’s head.  It just doesn’t make sense.  If Mamacita saw Mr. Willoughby cooking the goat (she got close enough to steal the skull and to see that he was Chinese) then it doesn’t make sense that in the time between her rushing back to the house and Claire rushing to the shore the crew of the Artemis would have completely cleared off.  It seems like they would still have been eating. When Claire reaches the beach and finds them already on board, that felt like a cheat.  The drama of the mirror signal was . . . dramatic, but it felt like a gimmick to me.  And it was an unnecessary one (IMHO).  Claire exploding out of the jungle and onto the beach where repairs were underway would have worked just as well (at least in my mind.)  I think the writers felt that since they did away with the whole Jamie-masquerades-as-a-soldier subplot they had to cook up some other way to amp up the tension and have one more punch to the viewer’s gut before the show’s one true pairing can be reunited.  I’d support that decision if it made sense but the passage of time in that segment – it is just wonky.

I loved most of the wedding scene but when Marsali says “You know I’ve been waiting to bed you for months” that just rang false.  I don’t believe a young 18th century woman, a virgin, would speak that way in public, much less at her own wedding and in front of the man she thinks of as her father.  That scene is so good in the book.  It’s a pity they felt they had to add a false note like that to it.

2 hours ago, toolazy said:

So I'm the only one who hated the coconut?  

No you are not. 

 

THE UGLY

Claire’s ant bites.  “Nuf said.

Smoking at the dinner table while people are still eating is gross.  I’m old enough to remember when restaurants allowed smoking and I’m old enough to recollect dining with jerks who would light up as soon as they were done, no matter if others at the table were still eating.  Man, am I glad those days are over.

Yo!  Jamie!  Claire’s the one being stitched up.  Why are you Bogarting the rum?

 

UNANSWERED QUESTIONS

What did Mamacita think when she saw the zipper on Claire’s corset?  I wonder if it made her a little bit afraid and thus even more eager to see Claire go.  And since the writers went to the trouble of showing us Mamacita seeing it and reacting to it, I wonder if it is going to play a role later in the season.  Or was it just another of the many “Uh oh, danger danger” bits that were sprinkled liberally throughout the Father Fogden scenes?

Edited November 26, 2017 by WatchrTina

[Eureka]

15 hours ago, toolazy said:

The only thing I didn't like - and it's kind of a big thing - is the coconut.  Who thought that was a good idea?  Otherwise, I was crying like mad. 

I kept thinking “Wilson!” Like in the Tom Hanks movie, the name of which is escaping me at the moment.

I agree that I could have done with less traipsing through the island. 

I like that they kept the enjoying sex/birth control conversation between Claire and Marsali.

Edited November 26, 2017 by Eureka

[LoveLeigh]

5 minutes ago, Eureka said:

I kept thinking “Wilson!” Like in the Tom Hanks movie, the name of which is escaping me at the moment.

 

Castaway

[WatchrTina]

That opening credits scene of the turtle is so beautiful.  But how did I not make the connection to the soup in the last scene?  Alas poor Yurtle . . . 

Edited November 27, 2017 by WatchrTina

[GHScorpiosRule]

There are now four scenes from the opening credits that we need to see: but the only one I’m interested in is the one where Jamie is wiping Claire’s lips with a cloth. That looks soooo sensual and sexy!!!❤️?????❤️

Wot?

[toolazy]

1 hour ago, Eureka said:

I kept thinking “Wilson!” Like in the Tom Hanks movie, the name of which is escaping me at the moment.

I agree that I could have done with less traipsing through the island. 

I like that they kept the enjoying sex/birth control conversation between Claire and Marsali.

Alton Brown does  a long episode of Good Eats that is a parody of that movie (he's stuck on an island and cooks with whatever he can scrounge up) and I'm pretty sure he has a coconut friend instead of a volleyball friend so every time someone picked up that stupid coconut I was knocked out of the show.  

1 hour ago, WatchrTina said:

That opening credits scene of the turtle is so beautiful.  But how did I not make the connection to soup in the last scene?  Alas poor Yurtle . . . 

I laughed out loud at the turtle in the title card sequence because I knew it was doomed. 

[FnkyChkn34]

16 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Just as they didn’t show Jamie rowing until he reached Claire on the beach, the show didn’t have to show Claire, thirsty, struggling to light a fire, blah, blah, fucking BLAH! A full 27 minutes devoted to that nonsense. We don’t see Jamie until the :42 mark.

Sorry, but did I watch a different version?  Claire was only roaming through the jungle until :16, when she stumbled on Father Fogden's.  At :27, they were eating dinner and then arguing about leaving and Mamacita wanting Claire gone.  Jamie shows up at :35.

As for Mamacita, I think she was cordial until she saw Claire's zipper.  Then I assumed that she though Claire was a witch or something evil to have such a thing.

I like that there wasn't a ridiculous pirate attack and that Claire cut her arm on a branch in the jungle.  A cut like that also explains the quick infection, while a cut from a cutlass would arguably be cleaner.  Considering Jamie couldn't even give her a shot later, it makes total sense that he couldn't stitch her up either.  Plus, she had just given him the bad news that he's a wanted man again, so he's dealing with bad news as well.  IMO, he doesn't need to focus solely on her when they are now both dealing with life altering news.

The turtle soup scene was fine.  I don't remember it that well from the book, so it was good enough for me.  I think I would have preferred that they put that table to better use though, if you know what I mean...

I also thought the wedding was well done.  I don't remember finding any parts of the books laugh-out-loud funny, so the wedding was good enough.  No complaints from me.

[riverheightsnancy]

I don't know about anyone else, but Claire's hair length has been driving me crazy since she got on the ship. When she was at Lallybroch and Leghair busted in on her and Jamie, it was barely touching her shoulders, now, just merely weeks, months later, it is a good 8 inches down her back (maybe even longer) and they showed her in the last episodes with a ponytail. It takes me right out of the scene and drives me nuts that they think we won't notice. They are usually so good we the costuming details. I prefer her hair long, but come on. How much time has elapsed? Many people are lucky to have that much growth in a year.  I actually liked the whole Claire is on Survivor/Castaway thing, but I hated how she appears to be close to the beach and then the guys are on the ship and how Jamie gets to the shore so fast. I would have liked a little fill-in there. 

[morgan]

Overall I thought it was pretty good.  High praise from me considering most of this part of Voyager is up there among my least favorite in all of Outlander.  I laughed when I saw the turtle title card....RIP turtle.  And while the jungle trek went on a bit long, I didn’t think it was overly so.  Loved the wedding, and the turtle soup scene was excellent.  Made me want to send the kids away for the weekend and spend it drunk with my husband!  Lol.  

I am probably the only one but I thought the reunion on the beach, complete with running toward each other as the music swells was cheesy as hell.  Sam, (while I do think he is gorgeous) and his over developed pecs didn’t help the harlequin romance feel to it.  

I love that they kept some of Claire and Marsali’s conversation.  

I am looking forward to the next 2 eps, especially with Lord John and of course Ian. And I’m sure we have a loooong wait, but very excited for season 4!

[Ziggy]

10 hours ago, BryroseA said:

RIGHT? Holy crap that was awful. I’d take a thousand vomiting sailors over that image any day. 

So did Claire foresee the need for a signaling device and that’s why she snatched the small mirror all stealth-like? Because that seems like some pretty prescient thinking, to me. 

I thought she was planning to use it to start a fire because using flint was a bit of a pain in the butt.  Didn't even think of signalling someone!  I guess she just thought, hey, this could really come in handy!

[morgan]

I thought fire too!  Although using the glass as a weapon could be useful too.

[thesparkinside]

Oooh! That was flint she stumbled over? I couldn't tell. I thought she'd brought flint and steel with her when she jumped because, yes, you do need flint AND steel to make a fire, as far as I know.

A decent episode. Nothing really blew me away. We didn't need as much of the wandering through the jungle. I thought this version of Father Fogden was interesting and gave us just enough tension--he fluctuated between bat-shit and maybe-okay. The info-dumpy bit was info-dumpy. And I also didn't love Marsali's line about wanting to bed Fergus. The line before it (something about "Hurry up and I'll be able to see for myself whether he has a cock") was sufficient to get across the meaning. The rest of the wedding was nicely done, and kudos to the actors playing Fergus and Marsali. They did a lovely job. I also enjoyed the turtle-soup scene and Yi Tien Cho's smile as he walked away from the door, hearing Jamie and Claire's, er, moans.

[Nidratime]

I was surprised they didn't show more than the leaves fluttering and the winds lifting indicating a storm was passing through and so we couldn't immediately connect that to the fact that the Artemis had been overtaken by a fierce storm. I think a little more of that might have been useful. It *was* in the books.

[toolazy]

I've seen people complaining in a few different places that it took her three days to get to Father Fogden's from the beach but mere hours (if that) to get to Jamie.  I'm pretty sure that it's because it's a different beach because Mamacita had to tell her which direction to run in.  At least, that is what I choose to believe.

[cardigirl]

Regarding things that seemed too convenient, like the flint, and pocketing the mirror; when the Father took out the jar of flesh-eating beetles and dumped them on Arabella’s skull, all I could think of was how long have those beetles been in that jar? Didn’t make sense to me.  Took me out of the horror of the scene.

I enjoyed this episode and the one before this, a lot. I like the focus on other characters, it expands the Outlander universe. 

[FnkyChkn34]

27 minutes ago, toolazy said:

I've seen people complaining in a few different places that it took her three days to get to Father Fogden's from the beach but mere hours (if that) to get to Jamie.  I'm pretty sure that it's because it's a different beach because Mamacita had to tell her which direction to run in.  At least, that is what I choose to believe.

I agree that it was a different beach, plus she was running in one direction rather than wandering aimlessly. 

[dbell1]

Mebbe ye run faster on wings of love, ye ken? 

I complained last week about missing the scene where Marseli and Claire have the talk. Thought that was lovely, and the defrosting of Marseli was nice to watch. Glad the wedding scene didn't follow the buik, loving the adult choice for Fergus. And Jamie giving Fergus a last name made me tear up.

Liked Claire and Jamie and the turtle soup. And major props to the writers for making Yi Tien Cho a real person. Hated the caricature in the book.

Would have liked about 5 minutes less of jungle Claire, and a few more minutes of ship wreck. Are they on a budget this year? 

Wee Ian returns next week!!! 

[TaurusRose]

Loved:

- the observation from the peanut gallery that MacDubh’s wife turns up in the unlikeliest of places ?;         

 - Yi Tien Cho’s dignity and the way he interacts with everyone;     

 - Jamie giving Fergus his name and Fergus’s beaming reaction;        

- the beach reunion, I thought this was going to be a Jamie free episode for a minute there;

- the final scene with Jamie and Claire.

Not loving Marsali’s mouth. The coconut sidekick was crazy, as I assume the priest was. Mamacita kind of cracked me up being so hostile to Claire, and Claire was amazingly restrained seeing as she was so snotty on both ships when faced with beliefs/behavior that didn’t fall in line with her POV.  The jungle scene maybe could have been shorter, but I sympathized with Claire’s plight (ants, snakes and an unmerciful sun beating down). I couldn’t help thinking that I may not have been as good at staying alive in her shoes.

Edited November 27, 2017 by taurusrose

[Nidratime]

It's weird that I just saw Shakespeare's "Twelfth Night" performed on Saturday just before this latest episode of #Outlander.

[TaurusRose]

1 minute ago, Nidratime said:

It's weird that I just saw Shakespeare's "Twelfth Night" performed on Saturday just before this latest episode of #Outlander.

What does this mean?

[Nidratime]

Twelfth Night is a Shakespeare "comedy" that starts off with a shipwreck where two people -- who don't even know if the other is alive -- are trying to find the other while grappling with "insanity" on the place they've landed.

https://www.google.com/search?q=twelfth+night+short+synopsis&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1

[koboldin]

7 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

I was also frustrated that time was moving more quickly on the beach than in the jungle.  There had to have been several hours between the very first scene on the beach (when repairs were still underway) vs. when Claire arrived on the beach (when everyone from the Artemis was back on board the ship and the repaired mast was in place.)  Clearly Claire didn’t run for hours nor, for that matter, did Mamacita run back from the beach for hours after finding Arabella’s head.  It just doesn’t make sense.  If Mamacita saw Mr. Willoughby cooking the goat (she got close enough to steal the skull and to see that he was Chinese) then it doesn’t make sense that in the time between her rushing back to the house and Claire rushing to the shore the crew of the Artemis would have completely cleared off.  It seems like they would still have been eating. When Claire reaches the beach and finds them already on board, that felt like a cheat.  The drama of the mirror signal was . . . dramatic, but it felt like a gimmick to me.  And it was an unnecessary one (IMHO).  Claire exploding out of the jungle and onto the beach where repairs were underway would have worked just as well (at least in my mind.)  I think the writers felt that since they did away with the whole Jamie-masquerades-as-a-soldier subplot they had to cook up some other way to amp up the tension and have one more punch to the viewer’s gut before the show’s one true pairing can be reunited.  I’d support that decision if it made sense but the passage of time in that segment – it is just wonky.

And then the later comment by Jamie that they had to wait for the pitch to harden, after the earlier scene said they were ready to set sail but were just waiting for dark for ease of sail...bad job editing. 

[Cloudberryjam]

7 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

There are now four scenes from the opening credits that we need to see: but the only one I’m interested in is the one where Jamie is wiping Claire’s lips with a cloth. That looks soooo sensual and sexy!!!❤️?????❤️

Wot?

Yes, i thought for sure that sexy wiping lips would be turtle soup scene, but it wasnt right?  What could it be?  Looks like a lovely scene and i hope it didnt get cut.  I doubt they would put it in opening credits if it did tho....so thats good

[MedievalGirl]

5 hours ago, riverheightsnancy said:

I don't know about anyone else, but Claire's hair length has been driving me crazy since she got on the ship. When she was at Lallybroch and Leghair busted in on her and Jamie, it was barely touching her shoulders, now, just merely weeks, months later, it is a good 8 inches down her back (maybe even longer) and they showed her in the last episodes with a ponytail. It takes me right out of the scene and drives me nuts that they think we won't notice. They are usually so good we the costuming details. I prefer her hair long, but come on. How much time has elapsed? Many people are lucky to have that much growth in a year.  I actually liked the whole Claire is on Survivor/Castaway thing, but I hated how she appears to be close to the beach and then the guys are on the ship and how Jamie gets to the shore so fast. I would have liked a little fill-in there. 

This is just life with curly hair. Trust me. Depending on the humidity you could have any length of hair. In damp Scotland it would look shorter. In the hotter Caribbean it will look longer. Also, with curls you reach a point where gravity beats out the strength of the curl and suddenly your hair is 8 inches longer. 

The thing about burning the bum roll was wondering if she actually had wool or cotton batting in it or had she used polyester. :D