S25.E12: Week 10: Season Finale Part 2

[billjohnson2091]

They got the final two right, could've gone either way.

Congrats to Jordan Fisher and Lindsey Arnold :)

[Bridget]

4 hours ago, 00redsvt said:

 Lindsey Sterling and Nikki Bella were chatting with each other. I saw Nikki tell Lindsey, "I voted for you!"  I thought that was cute. 

Was there a blooper reel and I just missed it? That's always my favorite part of the finale! 

I feel like there's something really off with Peta. Is that just me reaching? 

I saw it too - Nikki was definitely telling her how good she was and that she voted for her too!

The Bloopers were gone this season! MY MOST favorite part of the season. I'm calling Len to sort this out!

Peta seems off - I agree. Can't put my finger on it. Maybe she's hungry and should eat a sandwich since she's so freakin' thin?? I shouldn't joke about eating disorders, especially after Lindsey's story tonight, but it seems like Peta's "un-Peta-ness" is definitely coming from her eyes. She looks sad.

[00redsvt]

4 minutes ago, Bridget said:

 

Peta seems off - I agree. Can't put my finger on it. Maybe she's hungry and should eat a sandwich since she's so freakin' thin?? I shouldn't joke about eating disorders, especially after Lindsey's story tonight, but it seems like Peta's "un-Peta-ness" is definitely coming from her eyes. She looks sad.

I know I shouldn't joke either, but I agree. I think she lost too much, too fast, after the baby? I'm not sure. Even in other pros IG stories she doesn't act like she used to. See, I love the bloopers so much I was watching some old seasons on YT last night and Peta was absolutely hilarious in some of them. This whole season she's seemed so unsure and off kilter. Hopefully it's nothing but I do wonder if being married to Maks is starting to wear on her. That was mean. I'll hush now. 

[Bridget]

Just now, 00redsvt said:

I know I shouldn't joke either, but I agree. I think she lost too much, too fast, after the baby? I'm not sure. Even in other pros IG stories she doesn't act like she used to. See, I love the bloopers so much I was watching some old seasons on YT last night and Peta was absolutely hilarious in some of them. This whole season she's seemed so unsure and off kilter. Hopefully it's nothing but I do wonder if being married to Maks is starting to wear on her. That was mean. I'll hush now. 

I forget the week it was, but she was in some taupe-colored "costume" that showed off her body that made her look almost robotic. It was the one where she an 18 pack! Or like she had an eating disorder. For real.  She also had that "only sexy on a guy V-thing" below her torso. I don't know that anatomical wording for that body part on a guy other than "V-thing on the lower torso."

[00redsvt]

Just now, Bridget said:

I forget the week it was, but she was in some taupe-colored "costume" that showed off her body that made her look almost robotic. It was the one where she an 18 pack! Or like she had an eating disorder. For real.  She also had that "only sexy on a guy V-thing" below her torso. I don't know that anatomical wording for that body part on a guy other than "V-thing on the lower torso."

It was the week they did the exercise routine that I noticed it. It felt like both her bird legs put together wouldn't equal one of my thighs, and I'm an average weight! My husband doesn't pay too much attention to the TV when this is on but he even commented that week and asked if she was sick. I hope whatever it is, she's ok! 

[Bridget]

3 hours ago, madpsych78 said:

True, I liked her pairing with James and wish he had won (alas, Laurie won). I'm hot and cold with her. I didn't like her season with Bonner. I did like Derek but he was one of the weaker celeb dancers.

I think Sharna is the only active pro who hasn't won who has had experience with freestyles. Sasha fell just short of that last season, unfortunately.

James got robbed! I will say that til the end of time. Even my Canadian relatives who ONLY watch him race remembered about him being on DWTS!  I was so mad about his season's results!! My therapist says I should be over it soon though...hahaha!

I'm with you on Bonner - I think he was a bad dancer, which made her job ten times harder, hence the results. 

Sharna is amazing and she's worked her tail off every single season. I would love love love to see her win the trophy next season.

4 hours ago, UGAmp said:

 

Now can we have an all-stars season so we can get James Hinchcliffe back and he can win??

RIGHT?!?!?!? 

Shall we start making the t-shirts now? Because I totally will.....

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Is it wrong that all I could think of for most of the exteriors in the Grove was how close the Cheesecake Factory is to that set and how much I love that place?  The Grove and the connected Farmer's Market, along with its sister mall, Americana (in Glendale) really are excellent locations to spend some time.  If you are making an extended visit to L.A., I recommend you check them out.

Well, the best dancer won.  

I do not understand the limited, and gimmicky, next season.  Sure, the costs will be reduced.  But, DWTS is a rare ratings guarantee for a network that really, really, really, needs such.  Will we lose several of the pros permanently since they won't have a place on the show in the Spring???

[calipiano81]

2 hours ago, jaylee-03031 said:

I am so completely bummed.  I really hoped and thought that Mark and Lindsey would win.  He should have won with Paige but he got robbed.  He should have won with Lindsey tonight.  She grew as a dancer over the season and their freestyle last night was just phenomenal.  Mark is my favorite pro and his choreography is so bloody brilliant.  I hope he gets an Emmy at least for his choreography.  Don't get me wrong I do like Lindsay the pro but Jordan rubbed me the wrong way.  He seemed so cocky and he was a professional dancer.  Oh well, congrats Lindsay and Jordan.  I hope Mark comes back again for another season and wins the next time. 

With Paige, Mark had a contestant similar to Jordan in that Paige also came in as a lesser known but with dance experience, was the best dancer of the season, never had an off week, Mark was able to create memorable dances for her all season long, and she had great momentum going into the finale. Yet they couldn't win even with a 4-point lead and Nyle, IMO, not being as good a dancer as Lindsey. The choice of contemporary freestyle is debatable, but Nyle likely would have won regardless as long as he didn't mess up.

This season was sort of opposite for Mark. Lindsey was not the best dancer, but a very good one. Her personality and profession are demographic-friendly and throughout the season she shared a lot about herself (her past dealings with depression, her recent breakup, her dad's death) in order to make herself relatable. Mark did some creative work as well this season, but was more conservative and gave Lindsey lots of proper content. The freestyle he chose was unique and crowd-pleasing.

As a Mark fan, I am very frustrated. He can't win when he and his partner are consistent, he can't win when they have a journey with ups and downs. He's lost with partners who are great dancers but have small fanbases (Katherine, Chelsea, Sabrina), yet also with partners who have large fanbases but who are not naturally talented dancers (Bristol, Candace).

And even if Mark gets the perfect contestant, the fact that he does not do the DWTS tours anymore means that the show will promote the heck out of the touring pros, at the expense of him and his partner. This season there was a blatant lack of media coverage of Lindsey and Mark, especially for being one of the top couples. Early on and throughout the season, other couples appeared on Access Hollywood Live, Ellen, Entertainment Tonight, KTLA, etc. Lindsey/Mark were in L.A. for the first 8 weeks of competition, but it wasn't until the week before the finale (while they were travelling on tour) that they finally got an Access H. interview. In the post-show press line, I feel like their interviews were often rushed along in favor of other couples. I don't know whether all of this has any impact on the competition, but it seems unfair not to give all the couples equal opportunity for exposure.

Edited November 22, 2017 by calipiano81

[Bridget]

2 hours ago, 00redsvt said:

 

 

I really do wonder if Mark will be back. Did anyone see his face after the Len package played where he said Jordan was the one to beat.

I also noticed him mouthing a conversation to someone off stage while waiting on third place to be announced. Looked like he kept pulling faces and saying "I don't know" 

1. All due respect, and maybe it's a sign I need to get to bed, but I didn't notice a video package of Len praising Jordan that would allow for us to see Mark's reaction. Are there any "landmarks" or times you might be able to offer up so we can see it too? Thx!

2. I had to go back and search five times for the Mark-during-3rd-place-part, but I found it!

Right after Nick started singing and the camera cut to the Top 3, it can be visibly seen: Mark's eyebrows went up, as if to acknowledge someone offstage. He held eye contact as if to give a non-verbal "hello there!"  It was then quickly accompanied with a non-verbal look of "I don't know" with his mouth as his lips went into a frown. I did't see anything else. 

[Bridget]

4 hours ago, sab85 said:

Ugh, why do these poor people do this to themselves. Why not schedule the tour so the next show was on Friday? Everybody get some rest!

 

Musicians/singers book venues and plan tours at least a year out from the actual concert date. Promoting a CD that has a rock solid release date is a non-negotiable. Speaking from my perspective only, musicians (instrumentalists, little to zero vocals) are some of the most hard core performers I've ever met. The show must go on, no matter what. Think about how far in advance some of us buy tickets to concerts - at least ten months out for most major concerts. (My cousin and I are already beyond psyched about about seeing Ed Sheeran next summer!)

That said, if he (or anyone else) cancels/postpones, it's a pain in SO MANY other people's rear ends.  People plan vacations/others things around the concert; it's quite common for some groups of friends to fly in to see artists in different cities.

If I had bought a ticket to Lindsey's show on a Wed in Atlanta and it was postponed for two days because the performer was "tired", I'd be pretty livid. Also, the venue might not even be available two days later, along with needing to make sure everyone else involved with the venue is free: concession stands, parking lot attendants, janitorial staff, stage managers, catering, etcetera. The artist does't have the option to "call in sick" for work unless they have lost their voice or a doctor has forced them into rescheduling.

I bet that when DWTS came up, Lindsey probably thought one of two things:

1. I won't even make it to the finals   OR

2. I will deal with it when I have to deal with it. I'll be exhausted and tired, but I will deal with it.

[Bridget]

3 hours ago, 00redsvt said:

 

 

 

@Uke:

curiosity got the best of me so I googled Paige's brother. Wish I wouldn't have. I can see why they left and wanted a fresh start! Wow. 

I Googled as well. It makes so much sense now (about the "I was bullied" part and not diving deeply into that)! Wow. How does one even think about going onto an interactive reality show, owned by Disney of all folks, knowing there are certain facets of one's life one must avoid? Those producers during her season probably earned their paychecks! I applaud her though - she should't be living a different life based on someone else's actions.

[Jsage]

Quote

Thank you for sharing this.  That is what I meant by "there has got to be more to that story than that".  It makes me feel a lot more charitable towards Paige, that's for sure.  Charitable isn't really the right word, but not derisive isn't right, either.  Maybe that she doesn't irk me as much now that it isn't a case of 'oh, poor privileged baby'. 

I just googled too and that is terrible for Paige to have to deal with. That being said, the cheerleading bullying could have been very traumatic also. I might tell acquaintances that I was bullied for having curly, frizzy hair in junior high and my mom started taking me to a expensive hair salon in NYC. What I don't mention is the actual names the boys called me, the gestures they made, and how dangerously low the whole thing made my self-esteem. I do think there are levels of bullying and we don't really know what Paige experienced, but I'm sure, just like with her brother, she didn't share the whole story on DWTS.

[bealled]

People always want to downplay bullying because it is a common story. Paige does not seem like someone who would be bullied so I see why some would have acted skeptical about that being mentioned. However, if someone told me they moved states due to bullying, that in and of itself implies they were being heavily bullied and it was a serious situation. I also would really respect parents who could see a problem and took steps to make things better. A lot of young people are already heavily sensitive and seem more prone to self-harm or suicide during those ages. Also with the advent of technology, bullying is a lot worse and can be far scarier with someone texting you cruel things, filming or creating embarrassing videos about you, posting all over the internet about you. Basically it is a lot easier now for someone to harass you everywhere you go and not just while at school. Also it seems really common for celebrities to get a lot of hate directed at them as well on twitter and other social media platforms. So the fact these contestants are public figures can also lead to bullying and is why we hear about it a lot (Normani was bullied after becoming famous, so her celebrity actually caused her to get bullied).

Anyway I'm glad this season is over. This really was not one of my favorites. I am glad Lindsay took home a win though. I will miss Frankie though. He is awesome and my favorite all season.

[Snickerdoodle]

8 hours ago, doLLish said:

I don’t understand this all athletes season btw. All athletes? 10 couples? 4 weeks?

...why?

My guess is so that baseball players can participate before the baseball season starts. 

[corgi]

I'm a long time viewer of this show and watched the whole season, and won't be watching anymore.

I have no issue with Jordan at all, he seems like a nice enough guy and was the best dancer, but it was ordained from the beginning that would happen.  From the first night I knew it was going to be he and Lindsey at the end.  I don't think with the way the show is run, an Emmit could happen again. It just isn't fun anymore, having semi-pro dancers has kind of ruined it for me.

It was not the same after Dance Centre was gone.

[McManda]

4 hours ago, calipiano81 said:

As a Mark fan, I am very frustrated. He can't win when he and his partner are consistent, he can't win when they have a journey with ups and downs.

Just spitballing, but common denominator is Mark. I think he's pretty polarizing as a pro - you either love him or hate him - which might be enough to keep him from winning. He's not like Derek, who knew exactly how to play the DWTS game, but he's creative enough and patient enough to get pretty far which is why he's got lots of "so-close"'s.

I can recognise Mark as a good, creative choreographer. But I don't really care for a lot of his dances, though, because they're too much: too themed, too costumed, too over the top, too much in your face. And it's every dance he does, not just once in awhile. While that might make for great exhibition dances, it rubs me the wrong way on DWTS. There's always been someone else that fits my expectations better.

[smiley13]

11 minutes ago, Snickerdoodle said:

My guess is so that baseball players can participate before the baseball season starts. 

Have they said when the four weeks will be?  Doesn't Spring Training start in February?  

[kcrabtree06]

I just had to add some of thoughts on this season. Jordan was amazing and I'm not trying to take that away at all, but I am absolutely convinced that a lot of people voted for him because they wanted to see Lindsay finally win. She always gives 100% to all her partners unlike some pros who seem to check out if they don't have a ringer and she's really come into her own as a pro. I am seeing tons of posts where people are happy that Lindsay won.  If Jordan had been paired with say Sharna, I'm not sure how that would've worked out.

 

Also, I really think had they been on during another season, Lindsey and Mark likely could've won. Maybe even if they were on last season.

[Toonces464]

5 hours ago, 00redsvt said:

I know I shouldn't joke either, but I agree. I think she lost too much, too fast, after the baby? I'm not sure. Even in other pros IG stories she doesn't act like she used to. See, I love the bloopers so much I was watching some old seasons on YT last night and Peta was absolutely hilarious in some of them. This whole season she's seemed so unsure and off kilter. Hopefully it's nothing but I do wonder if being married to Maks is starting to wear on her. That was mean. I'll hush now. 

Being married to him can't be easy. He may also be forcing those damn vitamins he's shilling on her, as well as his new "healthy eating habits" which he says are going to make him live forever.

[Toonces464]

34 minutes ago, Snickerdoodle said:

My guess is so that baseball players can participate before the baseball season starts. 

Between spring training, full season and post season baseball runs from February through November. I don't see any way an active player can do the show.

[howmanywords]

51 minutes ago, corgi said:

I don't think with the way the show is run, an Emmit could happen again. It just isn't fun anymore, having semi-pro dancers has kind of ruined it for me.

It was not the same after Dance Centre was gone.

Rashad who just won last season isn't what I would call a semi-pro at all. He had no formal training, wasn't that well known coming into the season but he did have natural talent and likability. For all the talk about ringers, we've seen just as much about how the best dancer doesn't always win. That was the case with Nyle's season as well more recently.

39 minutes ago, kcrabtree06 said:

I just had to add some of thoughts on this season. Jordan was amazing and I'm not trying to take that away at all, but I am absolutely convinced that a lot of people voted for him because they wanted to see Lindsay finally win. She always gives 100% to all her partners unlike some pros who seem to check out if they don't have a ringer and she's really come into her own as a pro. I am seeing tons of posts where people are happy that Lindsay won.  If Jordan had been paired with say Sharna, I'm not sure how that would've worked out.

 

I adore Sharna and would love to see her win -she's long over due. Im not so sure would have been a great partner for Jordan though. I admit I wanted Lindsey to get her first win but I felt the same last season too..I would have never voted for David though. People were happy Emma finally won last season as well.

[anonymiss]

Jordan's win makes me feel bad for Heather Morris. Jordan was fortunate not to have someone like Wendy Williams publicize his professional dance background as she did for Heather multiple times, instructing her audience not to support this "cheater." 

I agree that people largely voted for Lindsay Arnold, also, partly because she's been waiting "so long," which makes me roll my eyes. She's a pro I enjoy but I don't think she's a Susan Lucci by any means. She still feels newer and this "it's my turn" entitlement rubs me the wrong way. Karina waited I don't know how long--wasn't it over a decade? I'm sure the show is super happy Lindsay has reached her potential in filling the bubbly beautiful blonde role they tried very hard to fill after Julianne retired.

Edited November 22, 2017 by anonymiss

[Toonces464]

7 minutes ago, anonymiss said:

Jordan's win makes me feel bad for Heather Morris. Jordan was fortunate not to have someone like Wendy Williams publicize his professional dance background as she did for Heather multiple times, instructing her audience not to support this "cheater." 

I seriously doubt very many people decided who to vote or not vote for based on the words of an idiot like Wendy Williams.

[thesupremediva1]

Unpopular opinion coming: I'm glad this season is over. Everyone but Len kissed Jordan's ass.  I felt no joy at his win. If there was ever a female pro who truly deserved a break and that Mirrorball, it's Sharna. Lindsay's been on what? Two years/four seasons? Plenty of better pros waited longer for a win.

I didn't realize how invested I was in Lindsey and Mark winning until they didn't. I immediately shut the show off at the announcement. You killed it, Mark. Every week. You're a treasure. 

Maybe people who see the tour will get to see more of Jordan's actual personality, now that he bagged the trophy. I would consider seeing it for Frankie, whom I adore now, even though I've never seen one thing he's done as an actor. 

Here's hoping we see Jordan as a pro soon. He's certainly talented enough to be one. Maybe then this season will have had some purpose. 

And, finally, even though many female ringers have won before, may the next ultra-talented, super-confident female ringer experience the fair treatment, cushy remarks, and inoffensive packages that Jordan received this season. In other words, let's see if TPTB just let them compete and earn their scores rather than trying to undercut them at every turn like what happened to Heather, Normani, Nastia, etc.

I might only be able to stand the 4 weeks they have in store for spring. Frankie was the only consistent joy this season, with Lindsey and Mark really bringing the spectacular stuff at the end.

[marykat71702]

21 minutes ago, anonymiss said:

Jordan's win makes me feel bad for Heather Morris. Jordan was fortunate not to have someone like Wendy Williams publicize his professional dance background as she did for Heather multiple times, instructing her audience not to support this "cheater." 

Has Jordan ever been hired to choreograph like Heather was?

 

One more thing about Lindsey S. for those of you saying she has had no training/experience: Look up the YouTube videos of her on Dance Showdown. This was NOT her first rodeo!

[anonymiss]

Just now, Toonces464 said:

I seriously doubt very many people decided who to vote or not vote for based on the words of an idiot like Wendy Williams.

I would hope no one still makes the false assumption that most will not be swayed by the "words of an idiot." Celebrity or other peripheral modes of persuasion have always proven to be very powerful. 

[Andiethewestie]

Do we know when this mini season is going to be be?  Is it during or after the Olympics? 

If it's right AFTER the Olympics I choose TESSA VIRTUE to dance with ARTEM

Just make sure CANADA gets to vote. 

[sab85]

I don't think anyone had to publicize Heather Morris's dance background - that's what she was known for.  She was Beyonce's backup dancer and showcased her dancing on Glee for seasons. 

Calling her a cheater is quite harsh though. I blame the show for her inclusion not Heather herself. 

Edited November 22, 2017 by sab85

[vibeology]

7 minutes ago, anonymiss said:

I agree that people largely voted for Lindsay Arnold, also, partly because she's been waiting "so long," which makes me roll my eyes. She's a pro I enjoy but I don't think she's a Susan Lucci by any means. She still feels newer and this "it's my turn" entitlement rubs me the wrong way. Karina waited I don't know how long--wasn't it over a decade? 

As someone who is was cheering for Lindsay all season, my issue wasn't that she's been waiting a long time but that she's been doing stellar work both with her inventive and memorable choreography and training her stars to dance and I like to see good work rewarded. When you look at partners like Alek or David, neither were amazing dancers but she did bring them a long way in a short period of time and created dances that suited and still challenged them. It was nice seeing that work rewarded with a Mirrorball. It's not that she was owed but that she's built up enough goodwill that I wanted to see it happen. But I wouldn't have been upset had the results gone the other way.

I'm a fan of hers. I've been wanting to see her get a win since her season with Wayna, and that was only her third season as a pro. It's not just people feeling like she's due. She has fans. Lindsay joined the show back in season 16. She had a not great run with Victor Ortiz and was bumped to the troupe for seasons 17-20. From season 21 on she's been a pro. She worked hard to get that pro spot in the troupe and has given it her all every season for her partner. I get that it doesn't add up to many years but she's certainly been putting the work in quietly to build up a solid fanbase.

[Andiethewestie]

8 hours ago, calipiano81 said:

Mark may have 2 wins, but his last win was EIGHT YEARS ago. When the current crop of female pros (other than Cheryl) have been on that long, then maybe I'll start lamenting their lack of trophies.

So now it's timing?  He has two mirrorballs and oodles of opportunities that go with that.  I doubt very much if Lindsey or Witney or Sharna would be able to take a season or two off and just show up again to dance with who they hand picked because he wanted to work with her as a musician outside of the ballroom.  The women are treated like they are interchangeable.  

4 minutes ago, vibeology said:

As someone who is was cheering for Lindsay all season, my issue wasn't that she's been waiting a long time but that she's been doing stellar work both with her inventive and memorable choreography and training her stars to dance and I like to see good work rewarded. When you look at partners like Alek or David, neither were amazing dancers but she did bring them a long way in a short period of time and created dances that suited and still challenged them. It was nice seeing that work rewarded with a Mirrorball. It's not that she was owed but that she's built up enough goodwill that I wanted to see it happen. But I wouldn't have been upset had the results gone the other way.

I'm a fan of hers. I've been wanting to see her get a win since her season with Wayna, and that was only her third season as a pro. It's not just people feeling like she's due. She has fans. Lindsay joined the show back in season 16. She had a not great run with Victor Ortiz and was bumped to the troupe for seasons 17-20. From season 21 on she's been a pro. She worked hard to get that pro spot in the troupe and has given it her all every season for her partner. I get that it doesn't add up to many years but she's certainly been putting the work in quietly to build up a solid fanbase.

Thanks for this timeline.  It really shows how hard Lindsay has worked, from getting a shot then being demoted for 3 seasons.  Ever since she came back she has been doing exceptional work.    

[Toonces464]

21 minutes ago, thesupremediva1 said:

And, finally, even though many female ringers have won before, may the next ultra-talented, super-confident female ringer experience the fair treatment, cushy remarks, and inoffensive packages that Jordan received this season. In other words, let's see if TPTB just let them compete and earn their scores rather than trying to undercut them at every turn like what happened to Heather, Normani, Nastia, etc.

We already saw that. Her name was Meryl Davis.

[Andiethewestie]

9 minutes ago, sab85 said:

I don't think anyone had to publicize Heather Morris's dance background - that's what she was known for.  She was Beyonce's backup dancer and showcase her dancing on Glee for seasons. 

Calling her a cheater is quite harsh though. 

Penn Jilette called Kristi Yamaguchi a cheater, on the show.  It was quite interesting

[Andiethewestie]

21 minutes ago, Toonces464 said:

We already saw that. Her name was Meryl Davis.

yes, and I think Kristi had a pretty easy run as well.

21 minutes ago, Toonces464 said:

 

37 minutes ago, marykat71702 said:

One more thing about Lindsey S. for those of you saying she has had no training/experience: Look up the YouTube videos of her on Dance Showdown. This was NOT her first rodeo!

 

Well this is what turned me off of Lindsey.  At the very beginning of the season I saw the Arena and thought okay she danced with Derek, but then they tried to downplay her training....She said she only danced with Derek once. Ok. But she neglected to tell everyone that She has been trained by her own choreographer who she met while competing on a youtube dance show 3 years before DWTS, her tour included back up dancers and dancers lifting her in the air while she played violin. Sound Familiar? The choreographer and dancers were impressed with Lindsey for taking control of the Tour from an artistic point of view from the dancing to the costumes.  Then Derek came on scene and taught some Argentine Tango and Paso ballroom to her. This was all before DWTS, and sure as heck was specific training for the show.  I don't care if someone has been trained, that's not the point. The point is I think it's only fair to the audience to know that Mark didn't train her for Argentine Tango, or lifts with Violins, to pretend otherwise isn't cricket. 

Also, the suggestion that her tours was just her dancing around isnt' true and it's a disservice to her choreographer, Anze Skrug.  There was very specific formation dancing,  the type of dancing that got Amber Riley a mirrorball.  Because Anze Skrug and Misha Gabriel are experts at that type of choreography. Misha co-choreographed Amber's freestyle.  Anze and Misha both worked on Sadie's freestyle.  For Lindsey to have this type of choreography well before the show is an advantage, but something the team did not disclose.   Jordan is the one who got all the ringer talk. 

Edited November 22, 2017 by Andiethewestie

[truthaboutluv]

9 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

While I agree with you in theory (partly because there's no way in hell my parents would have packed up and moved somewhere if I'd basically said, "But Daddy, I want an oompa loompa!"), without some parents recognizing their kids' talent, potential, and work ethic (and I say SOME because not all kids are actually talented despite what their parents think), we wouldn't have Olympic gold medalists like Simone Biles and Michael Phelps.

This. Maria Sharapova was sent to the Nick Bolliterri Tennis Academy in Florida at age 7, while her family stayed behind in Russia. So this 7 year old was essentially in a foreign country away from her parents, having to speak a language that wasn't her native tongue. Hell, from this show, Derek and Julianne were sent to London to live and train with Mark's parents when they were only like 10 and 12. 

Edited November 22, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[spanana]

I don't have the energy for the same old tired ringer debate that we all repeat after every week, but I don't think anyone was robbed here.  Once Drew was eliminated, this was a finale when I wouldn't have been mad at any of them winning.  I recognize that Frankie wasn't as strong of a dancer.  I think he could have won but he peaked on the wrong weeks.  With this show it's also all about peaking at the right time.  I wanted Jordan to win because I wanted Lindsay to get her trophy so badly, but I wouldn't have been mad at Lindsey winning.  I like all three of them as people.  I didn't have to see a C bros finale, so I'm good.

I will 100% say straight up that I think Lindsay Arnold is the best all around pro this show has seen in a very very long time. That doesn't mean that I don't think other pros do great things, but in more recent DWTS, I find her the most consistent across the board when it comes to ability to work with all different levels of celebs, choreo, teaching, attitude, etc.  I love her.  She is fantastic.  I'm glad that she can't seem to stop smiling about her win.  Not that it is necessarily essential to the win, but I'd also argue she's the best current technical dancer amongst the female pros by a long shot (maybe Jenna but I don't count her since she's not a pro pro).

I also didn't cast a vote all season so I'm certainly not the reason anybody won or didn't won.  Maybe it somehow makes me anti-woman when it comes to the celebs, but I find these days I spend most of my time pulling for the female DWTS pros to get their due.  So I'm pro woman, it's just I'm supporting our female pros and them getting the recognition they deserve alongside their male counterparts.

Other than that I have very few thoughts about the finale. I forgot some people even competed until they came out.  I didn't understand the point of putting male pros in front of Barbara during her routine so nobody could even see her. 

Last thoughts. I never need to see Robert Roldan do ballroom and the show really needs to get their crap together and hire back Brittany Cherry and stop stringing her along with the constant hiring and firing.  Since Jenna is treated as this weird pseudo pro for better or worse, let Brittany be in the troupe since she actually seems committed to be there.  Jenna can just be Mandy's full time hype women or do her featured Mandy or Val numbers. 

Edited November 22, 2017 by spanana

[thesupremediva1]

37 minutes ago, Toonces464 said:

We already saw that. Her name was Meryl Davis.

Oh yes, all of once or twice with her and maybe Kristi Yamaguchi.

Let me be clear: Meryl was a ringer, but she was a borderline ringer. She was an ice dancer (ice being far more important than the "dance" part). In the first few weeks, her movements were small, feet unpointed, she was off-axis in many turns, and in general displayed more athleticism than grace.

By the finale, she was basically on a pro level. My point is that she did show marked improvement over the course of her season. Jordan was that perfect week 1. And Meryl was marked as "an Olympian" each and every time she was mentioned. Her critiques were harsh when needed and she received many 9s for dances that would have certainly earned 10s on this season.

There are definite similarities between Meryl and Jordan, in that their pros were pushed for the trophy more than they were, and they were clearly the two best dancers on their respective seasons. But after 18 seasons on the show, I understood the great push for Maks to get his Mirrorball. The Lindsey love train is sort of lost on me; she hasn't been around all that long.

Edited November 22, 2017 by thesupremediva1

[spanana]

1 minute ago, thesupremediva1 said:

The Lindsey love train is sort of lost on me; she hasn't been around all that long.

Because maybe it's also about talent and ability and not how long someone has been on the show. The Maks being pushed to a mirrorball was ridiculous to me because it was more about poor Maks and how long he had been on the show without a trophy as opposed to whether or not he actually deserved a trophy here and there.  Yes, Mel B.  I get it.  Many feel she was robbed but I also thought she kind of had an ill timed meltdown in the finale with a really awful freestyle.

With Lindsay, I don't think it was ever about how she long she had been on the show without a trophy so much as her general overall success rate with her partners and how far she's managed to get some pretty awful non-dancers.  Also if you look at how the other pros treat and react to Lindsay, I'd argue she's probably the most universally well liked pro amongst the other pros.  Everyone seems to love Lindsay therefore they wanted her to get a trophy.  All you have to do is look all the lovely glowing things the various other pros have said and posted about her and compare it to the more partisan reaction on some other seasons.  Lindsay is like the Miss Congeniality of DWTS.

I also don't think TPTB pushed the Lindsay has never won angle nearly as hard as they did with Maks.  It was more Jordan talking about how badly he wanted to Lindsay to win than the overwhelming push from TPTB like we got with Maks.  With Meryl, half of her packages were about Maks and his lack of mirrorball.

[Andiethewestie]

Quote

Let me be clear: Meryl was a ringer, but she was a borderline ringer. She was an ice dancer (ice being far more important than the "dance" part). In the first few weeks, her movements were small, feet unpointed, she was off-axis in many turns, and in general displayed more athleticism than grace

 

The difference between Meryl and Jordan is Meryl and Charlie took studio ballroom and ballet dance lessons on a weekly basis prior to the Olympics.  Sure ice dancing is different, but in order to assimilate the style for the ice rink you have to know how it is performed on the ground.

Quote

Our typical training week is Monday through Friday. We are on the ice from 7am until noon or 1pm with a half hour break somewhere. Then, on Monday, Wednesday and Friday, we work out at the gym for an hour and a half. On Tuesday and Thursday, we will supplement our training with ballet or ballroom classes. So we keep pretty busy,” states Meryl.
Read more at http://www.accesshollywood.com/articles/meryl-davis-charlie-whites-fitness-road-to-sochi-healthy-hollywood-141218/#TbbTrMMuURWUkAcB.99

 

 

Jordan had no such ballroom pre training.  His talent for ballroom and latin is probably the best I've ever seen on this show.

Edited November 22, 2017 by Andiethewestie

[boyznkatz]

Plenty of male ringers have been beaten by charismatic women. What about Corbin Bleu and Amber Riley? Riker and Rumer? How about John O'Hurley and Kelly Monaco?

I think the women pros get crapped on for sure. They can't just decide to come and go like Hough or Ballas or Maks (with the exception of Julianne who is a far bigger star than any of those three). The female contestants aren't treated badly though. Most of them are paired with the favored male pros, so they get plenty of chances to win.

Edited November 22, 2017 by boyznkatz

[thesupremediva1]

9 minutes ago, spanana said:

With Lindsay, I don't think it was ever about how she long she had been on the show without a trophy so much as her general overall success rate with her partners and how far she's managed to get some pretty awful non-dancers.  Also if you look at how the other pros treat and react to Lindsay, I'd argue she's probably the most universally well liked pro amongst the other pros.  Everyone seems to love Lindsay therefore they wanted her to get a trophy.  All you have to do is look all the lovely glowing things the various other pros have said and posted about her and compare it to the more partisan reaction on some other seasons.  Lindsay is like the Miss Congeniality of DWTS.

This is all just lost on me.  Interesting. I certainly recognize it as a trend since so many people are expressing this sentiment, but it usually looks like a love-fest among the pros and most contestants seem to love their pros (with the obvious exceptions of Maks and Keo - though I blame the producers for giving Keo awful humans as partners on occasion). You'd think Val was Yoda with some of the things his partners have posted about him over the years. It seems to be the rule rather than the exception.

It might be a taste thing, or I might be weird, but I have never been inspired by Lindsay's choreography in a memorable way. She seems lovely, and she is great at her job - but I'd say that about anyone who works consistently as a pro on DWTS. That show isn't for the faint of heart. I mostly remember her for portraying herself as a ditz with Whitney.

Many of her dances this season were exceptional; that is because she was given an exceptional partner. I felt the same way about Maks with Meryl - though I had adored Meryl as a skater long before she appeared on that show. Jordan could have made any piece of choreography look amazing.

Edited November 22, 2017 by thesupremediva1

[Toonces464]

4 minutes ago, spanana said:

Because maybe it's also about talent and ability and not how long someone has been on the show. The Maks being pushed to a mirrorball was ridiculous to me because it was more about poor Maks and how long he had been on the show without a trophy as opposed to whether or not he actually deserved a trophy here and there.  Yes, Mel B.  I get it.  Many feel she was robbed but I also thought she kind of had an ill timed meltdown in the finale with a really awful freestyle.

With Lindsay, I don't think it was ever about how she long she had been on the show without a trophy so much as her general overall success rate with her partners and how far she's managed to get some pretty awful non-dancers.  Also if you look at how the other pros treat and react to Lindsay, I'd argue she's probably the most universally well liked pro amongst the other pros.  Everyone seems to love Lindsay therefore they wanted her to get a trophy.  All you have to do is look all the lovely glowing things the various other pros have said and posted about her and compare it to the more partisan reaction on some other seasons.  Lindsay is like the Miss Congeniality of DWTS.

I also don't think TPTB pushed the Lindsay has never won angle nearly as hard as they did with Maks.  It was more Jordan talking about how badly he wanted to Lindsay to win than the overwhelming push from TPTB like we got with Maks.  With Meryl, half of her packages were about Maks and his lack of mirrorball.

And remember, her season came at a time that Maks actually DID walk away from the show. In fact, just a few weeks before his return to Season 18 was announced, he was on AH talking about how badly he had wanted the mirrorball with Erin that he bawled his eyes out when they were eliminated, but that he was over it and it no longer mattered to him. Then there he was, back a few weeks later with the biggest ringer the show has ever seen.

Season 18 will always be one of my least favorites ever because of all the pushing a trophy on Maks nonsense and the ridiculous showmance that went along with it.

[truthaboutluv]

Quote

Rashad who just won last season isn't what I would call a semi-pro at all. He had no formal training, wasn't that well known coming into the season but he did have natural talent and likability. For all the talk about ringers, we've seen just as much about how the best dancer doesn't always win. That was the case with Nyle's season as well more recently.

And that's why I've said that everything about this show has become predictable, even including the viewer responses and reactions. Like you noted, Jordan wins this season so suddenly it's "the show is about ringers, it's not the same, someone like Emmitt would never win today", of course ignoring how just last season we had Rashad win. Rashad who was an athlete like Emmitt and not the best technical dancer like Emmitt but had personality and a great energy throughout the season. But Jordan wins and suddenly the show is about the ringers. 

Of course, again as you noted, a few seasons ago, the outrage was about Nyle beating Paige because she was by far the better dancer and it didn't matter what her background was. Some were livid at the fact that the best dancer clearly did not win and that Nyle won on "sympathy" votes. Then we have Rashad and now Jordan's win and suddenly a talented woman will never win this show again, ignoring of course that Laurie won two seasons ago and before Nyle's win, Bindi and Rumer won and a few years before there were four seasons straight that only had female winners. Oh and the female winners outnumber the male winners. 

Jordan wins and clearly the ringer men don't get judged like the ringer women, ignoring of course that Mario Lopez didn't win, Corbin Bleu didn't win, Riker Lynch didn't win and in all of those cases there were comments throughout the season about these guys performance/dance history and them being ringers. Corbin and Mario were both derided constantly for being arrogant like some accused Jordan of being. And many never missed a chance to mention Riker's competing in ballroom with his sister when he was younger 

All this to show again that at the end of the day, as long as this show incorporates viewer voting (and even if it didn't to be honest) it will always essentially be a popularity contest where everyone will never be pleased with the result. Someone will always think someone else was robbed and this or that was unfair. And that ties to the rigged rumors as well. I read comments under the story where that creepy kid who was awful (Jake T. Austin, that's his name) and deserved to be booted first, claimed the show was rigged and so many kept listing people they felt should have won and so that was proof the show was indeed rigged. And the whole thing just made me laugh because I wondered if these people didn't realize that for every one of them who thought that person should have won, there were others who thought someone else should have and so their fave not winning doesn't prove the show is rigged.

 

Quote

Jordan was amazing and I'm not trying to take that away at all, but I am absolutely convinced that a lot of people voted for him because they wanted to see Lindsay finally win. 

I don't think many people would argue with that. In fact I think that was pretty much acknowledged by many throughout the season with many noting how much they wanted to see Lindsay win. 

 

Quote

Jordan's win makes me feel bad for Heather Morris. Jordan was fortunate not to have someone like Wendy Williams publicize his professional dance background as she did for Heather multiple times, instructing her audience not to support this "cheater." 

Heather's backlash wasn't the result of Wendy Williams. Wendy joined the bandwagon but the moment the cast was officially announced, there were multiple online publications discussing Heather's background and especially the fact that she danced on tour with Beyonce. The Beyonce factor alone was what got tongues wagging all over the place. There were many publications essentially calling Heather a professional dancer and debating why she was allowed to be on the show. As I said, the Beyonce factor is what made it difficult for Heather to escape the backlash. People heard dancing for Beyonce and decided that there was no way the girl wasn't a professional because Beyonce wouldn't hire some average dancer for her tour. That's what did her in. 

 

Quote

Let me be clear: Meryl was a ringer, but she was a borderline ringer. She was an ice dancer (ice being far more important than the "dance" part). In the first few weeks, her movements were small, feet unpointed, she was off-axis in many turns, and in general displayed more athleticism than grace.

And yet many insist that gymnasts are huge ringers. 

[spanana]

16 minutes ago, thesupremediva1 said:

This is all just loss on me. I certainly recognize it as a trend since so many people are expressing this sentiment, but it usually looks like a love-fest among the pros and most contestants seem to love their pros (with the obvious exceptions of Maks and Keo - though I blame the producers for giving Keo awful humans as partners on occasion). You'd think Val was Yoda with some of the things his partners have posted about him over the years. It seems to be the rule rather than the exception.

It might be a taste thing, or I might be weird, but I have never been inspired by Lindsay's choreography in a memorable way. She seems lovely, and she is great at her job - but I'd say that about anyone who works consistently as a pro on DWTS. That show isn't for the faint of heart. I mostly remember her for portraying herself as a ditz with Whitney.

Many of her dances this season were exceptional; that is because she was given an exceptional partner. I felt the same way about Maks with Meryl - though I had adored Meryl as a skater long before she appeared on that show. Jordan could have made any piece of choreography look amazing.

I'm certainly not trying to sell you on Lindsay if she isn't your cup of tea, but as someone who has watched this show from the beginning and probably paid too much attention to them on social media, I'd argue that the pros don't all universally get along.  There are factions of pros and friendship groups that are partial to each other and less accepting of those outside of their group.  I don't necessarily think they all hate each other either, minus a few, but they aren't necessarily the big happy family that they try to sell themselves as.  Even last season, the pros that Emma was close to were very happy for her and posted glowing things and the others that were a bit bitter ignored it and said nothing.  When someone like Val posts a glowing post as he did for Lindsay for someone outside of his normal fam circle, it's unusual.  Pretty sure he did no such thing for Emma.  Maks did too.  I find what the pros do with each other isn't outright, "I hate so and so" but a more passive subtle way of getting in digs and etc.  

Also if you want to see pros that don't talk...watch the body language between Mark and Witney when they were kind of forced to hug after Frankie's elimination.  Also Val and Sasha tend to get small digs in at each other a lot, so I don't think there is any love lost there.  Of course the C bros versus Derek/Julianne but that is an obvious one. 

Also Heather was also just boring.  I would have supported Heather if I enjoyed her dancing.  I don't care if somebody is a ringer or not.  Part of the issue is at least on screen, Heather had the personality of a wet blanket. I'm sure she's a lovely person but as a personality on a reality show she didn't pop.  Nor did her partnership.

Edited November 22, 2017 by spanana

[realdancemom]

10 hours ago, littlecowgirl93 said:

Ooo I’d love to have Calvin and Nancy back especially if they are paired with Lindsay and Artem respectively. I’d also like to see Paige back, I didn’t watch her season but what I saw of her I think I’d like!

I would love this. 

[nutty1]

My thoughts on it......Jordan and Lindsey (the star) were both ringers. They both were deserving of a win. But only one can win. I think people just connected more with Jordan. I wish they were on different seasons and both ended up winners.

[thesupremediva1]

7 minutes ago, spanana said:

I'd argue that the pros don't all universally get along.  There are factions of pros and friendship groups that are partial to each other and less accepting of those outside of their group.  I don't necessarily think they all hate each other either, minus a few, but they aren't necessarily the big happy family that they try to sell themselves as. 

You know, with Derek gone, I'd forgotten all about the Hough vs. Fam faction. You're totally right! That was like Hatfield and McCoy levels of shade for a few years there. In any case, congrats to Lindsay on her win. I was pleased as punch for Emma last season.

Now if we could get Sharna a Mirrorball-worthy contestant...

[littlecowgirl93]

8 hours ago, Bridget said:

I saw it too - Nikki was definitely telling her how good she was and that she voted for her too!

Awww! I love their friendship! I know they were always commenting on each other’s Instagram posts. I always thought she left too early.

[spanana]

Just now, thesupremediva1 said:

You know, with Derek gone, I'd forgotten all about the Hough vs. Fam faction. You're totally right! That was like Hatfield and McCoy levels of shade for a few years there. In any case, congrats to Lindsay on her win. I was pleased as punch for Emma last season.

Now if we could get Sharna a Mirrorball-worthy contestant...

Though not as noticeable, I'd argue there is also a growing chasm between the fam pros (so the Cbros and their whole group) and Emma/Sasha's group.  Though Emma/Sasha's group is kind of an offshoot of Derek's group I guess.  They are close with the Houghs and Mark, Lindsay, Artem, Keo amongst others.  Val and Sasha particularly don't like each other and are always managing to get in passive aggressive digs at the other but I don't really know why.  Val & Emma used to be close but don't seem to be anymore so maybe it has something to do with that.  There are a couple pros like Lindsay and Sharna that seem to have a foot in both worlds, though Lindsay doesn't really hang out with the fam pros much on her off time, so much as they at least seem to respect her and her work.  I don't think the same holds true for Witney for instance.

[crowceilidh]

Quote

Heather's backlash wasn't the result of Wendy Williams.

No.  I didn't participate in the backlash because ringer backlash bores me to tears, but I never saw one iota of likeability from Heather (except possibly in her Alan week) and I was never that impressed with her dancing which always read as over-sharp back-up rather than star dancing or something.

Just have to mention to a comment way up the board that I can no longer find - the indignity of Canadians not being able to vote for James has a lot to do with the fact that I could vote for SEASONS before James but then they took my right to vote away in his season (or just before?)  That seemed egregiously pointed and insulting to me.  I hope the ability to vote is not just a rider on Drew's contract that will expire. 

[madpsych78]

9 hours ago, calipiano81 said:

Except the expectations for male celebs are much lower than for female celebs. Non-ringer females are still expected to dance like ringers and female personalities have to receive approval from the demographic. The males just have to be charismatic and/or have a big fanbase. (I realize Jordan did not win for these reasons, so I do not begrudge his win at all, although I am still bitter for Lindsey and Mark's loss)

The male pros get the more talented contestants, but with that comes greater responsibility. They are more high profile than the female pros, but they also get much more criticism.

And anyway, Cheryl, Julianne, Kym, and Peta have won two trophies apiece. 

Mark may have 2 wins, but his last win was EIGHT YEARS ago. When the current crop of female pros (other than Cheryl) have been on that long, then maybe I'll start lamenting their lack of trophies.

That's a really good point and they shouldn't be. Male celebs, ringer or not, who are effective dancers should get to the point where they can lead their female pro, whereas female celebs generally don't have that same expectation. That makes the job even tougher for a female pro, who has to lead but make it look like they are not leading, than for a male pro, who is accustomed to leading and that doesn't change even with a celeb learning to dance.

Lindsay did finish in 8th place with Victor in Season 16, but when she returned as a full pro in Season 21, she managed to attain no lower than 4th place for all five seasons, with celebs who, other than Jordan and maybe Calvin, probably would not have placed as high had they been paired with, say, Witney, Sharna, or Emma.