S25.E11: Week 10: Season Finale Part 1

[bealled]

13 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Possibly they learned from them constantly reminding people last season about Heather Morris being a ringer (though she didn't even get to the semis, so not as big of a ringer) and Normani's Fifth Harmony success (dancing twice to her own group's song, having her group sing the first song that got them on the X Factor). Which isn't bad, but at the same time, maybe doing something Hamilton-esque could have helped. I know they performed to Jordan's Moana song weeks ago, but Hamilton is definitely the one he's more well-known for. Plus, it really would have made him stand out. I agree that his two dances last night were too similar. I think Lindsay needed the Freestyle to stand out more. Just because it was good, it doesn't mean it's necessarily memorable. That's why Lindsey and Mark's dances have stood out to me more. I remember three of her dances to Jordan's one Salsa. The audiences who are voting are more likely looking for entertaining dances. Not all of them will know the specifics of dance styles. This is an entertainment show before an actual dance competition. The casual viewer is looking for a dance to stand out. I remember that's what I looked for when I watched the dances online. It still has to be good, but there needs to be something else there. 

Not that Jordan needed to bring Lin Manuel-Miranda on or anything, but I do think he was missing something that Lindsey hit better. Of course, this is just my own opinion. I just really preferred Lindsey's dance because it incorporated her own style and what she's known for.

There was a huge backlash last season about the ringers. I don't think people expected Heather to go far because they knew the backlash would be too much. She didn't even really get a great chance to shine being paired with Maks and then flip flopping between him and Alan. That Frozen dance was really bad considering Heather would have been capable of so much more.

I actually think Normani did really well for how known she was last season. I know they hyped up Fifth Harmony, but I don't think that group is popular with the demographic that watches this show. I feel like Simone and Nancy were household names and hardly anyone would recognize Normani's name prior to the season. Even Heather was probably more well known since she was on a popular network show for several seasons. Being paired with Val helped Normani, and she was also just a really good dancer. I actually have known about Fifth Harmony since the X Factor and always liked them. I really did not expect Normani to do that well before the season started and with the cast list (it did have a fair amount of well known names).

Anyway, I understand Lindsay and Jordan wanting to try and avoid highlighting him as a ringer. I just think we could have had a better freestyle that showcased something different about Jordan. Perhaps part of the reason it didn't resonate is that Charleston. I don't really know what else he could have been assigned for redemption week. I don't even remember him having a bad week. The only reason the Charleston was considered bad was because it was not true to the style. I think it's probably really hard to think of amazing freestyles, and I see why those jazzy/Broadway-style routines would come to mind as a showstopper. It would have stood out more without the Charleston on the same week.

[superdeluxe]

3 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Well, he is a Broadway and Disney actor. Those are his claims to fame. Every celebrity has their own fanbases. 

True, but I still don't know who he is.  People keep mentioning Hamilton.  Who did he play in there?  Did he have a large role?

[Lady Calypso]

Just now, superdeluxe said:

True, but I still don't know who he is.  People keep mentioning Hamilton.  Who did he play in there?  Did he have a large role?

He played Philip Hamilton/John Laurens. I believe he was a replacement that took over the role last year. That's all I know about Jordan, though I know him better from his Disney days. Not that much, but a little bit. I do think that he's not as popular and is still relatively unknown, but because of Hamilton being a big thing in the last couple of years, any name attached to it will bring some attention. 

I think it's tough to know every single celebrity that comes onto these shows. For example, I had no idea who Terrell or Derek were because I'm not into sports. I also am young so I didn't recognize who Debbie Gibson was. The only celebrities I recognized were Frankie, Lindsey, Nick, Vanessa, and Sasha. It took me a bit to recognize Drew (I knew of his show and have watched one or two of his episodes), and I recognized the name Nikki Bella. 

[Venee]

Just now, superdeluxe said:

True, but I still don't know who he is.  People keep mentioning Hamilton.  Who did he play in there?  Did he have a large role?

It's a meaty role or roles I should say. He took over for the original actor in the Broadway production (Anthony Ramos) and played two roles. John Laurens and Philip Hamilton. 

[Venee]

Just now, bealled said:

There was a huge backlash last season about the ringers. I don't think people expected Heather to go far because they knew the backlash would be too much. She didn't even really get a great chance to shine being paired with Maks and then flip flopping between him and Alan. That Frozen dance was really bad considering Heather would have been capable of so much more.

I actually think Normani did really well for how known she was last season. I know they hyped up Fifth Harmony, but I don't think that group is popular with the demographic that watches this show. I feel like Simone and Nancy were household names and hardly anyone would recognize Normani's name prior to the season. Even Heather was probably more well known since she was on a popular network show for several seasons. Being paired with Val helped Normani, and she was also just a really good dancer. I actually have known about Fifth Harmony since the X Factor and always liked them. I really did not expect Normani to do that well before the season started and with the cast list (it did have a fair amount of well known names).

Anyway, I understand Lindsay and Jordan wanting to try and avoid highlighting him as a ringer. I just think we could have had a better freestyle that showcased something different about Jordan. Perhaps part of the reason it didn't resonate is that Charleston. I don't really know what else he could have been assigned for redemption week. I don't even remember him having a bad week. The only reason the Charleston was considered bad was because it was not true to the style. I think it's probably really hard to think of amazing freestyles, and I see why those jazzy/Broadway-style routines would come to mind as a showstopper. It would have stood out more without the Charleston on the same week.

The ringer thing is the dead horse that can't be beat enough on this show. Frankly if I could dance I would own it and move on. I know they want to talk up the "journey" and all, but at the end of the day it's about voting for your favorite dancer end of story. Many come in with some type of advantage whether it's experience, popularity, or both. At this point I personally want them to "shut up and dance" lol

 

I thought they would make them redo the Argentine Tango. I thought Len didn't like it or something and I think I remember others here speculating that may be the comeback dance.

[truthaboutluv]

Just now, Lady Calypso said:

I think it's tough to know every single celebrity that comes onto these shows.

This. I swear every season of this show there are viewers claiming to have no idea why this person or that person is on the show and what their claim to fame is. Hell, during Amber Riley's season, I remember someone saying they had idea why she was even on the show because she had no claim to fame and the girl had been a regular cast member on a smash hit show that was still on the air at the time. Admittedly I had no idea who Jordan was because I outgrew Disney years ago and most of what I know of Hamilton is Lin Manuel Miranda and the other cast members who were nominated or won for their roles like Renee Goldsberry and Jonathan Groff. But I don't feel like I was obligated to know him. Interestingly, he was the one cast member I actually was not familiar with. 

[sinkwriter]

Quote

Jordan did an entire package skit comparing himself to Corbin. 

I actually thought Jordan was off-base with that comparison. I can see why they encouraged him to make that comment, on paper they might seem similar, but personally I like Jordan a lot better than I ever liked Corbin. During Corbin's season, I was with Amber Riley all the way. Corbin was so annoying and cocky; he really bugged me, and I felt like his freestyle was more show-off tricks than actual dancing. (I just rewatched it last week, and feel the same about it as I did then. It was cool, but it didn't really have much dancing.)

In contrast, while I definitely feel like Jordan suffers from too much PR training talk, I feel like we've finally gotten to see more of Jordan in the final weeks (with his comic book nerdiness, his hyper-perfectionism, and his fondness for his family). I would vote for Jordan any day over Corbin. Like someone else in this thread, I found his nervousness about the hat and cane portion of the dance to be endearing, and thought he did a hell of a job on his freestyle.

Edited November 21, 2017 by sinkwriter

[boyznkatz]

30 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

He played Philip Hamilton/John Laurens. I believe he was a replacement that took over the role last year. That's all I know about Jordan, though I know him better from his Disney days. Not that much, but a little bit. I do think that he's not as popular and is still relatively unknown, but because of Hamilton being a big thing in the last couple of years, any name attached to it will bring some attention. 

I think it's tough to know every single celebrity that comes onto these shows. For example, I had no idea who Terrell or Derek were because I'm not into sports. I also am young so I didn't recognize who Debbie Gibson was. The only celebrities I recognized were Frankie, Lindsey, Nick, Vanessa, and Sasha. It took me a bit to recognize Drew (I knew of his show and have watched one or two of his episodes), and I recognized the name Nikki Bella. 

Usually I've heard of most of the cast, although I've rarely been a fan of any of them, with the exception of the figure skaters. Ironically, the ones I've enjoyed watching the most this season were Jordan and Lindsey, the two I didn't know.

[littlecowgirl93]

3 hours ago, Andiethewestie said:

Given some of the comments I get the feeling that Lindsey and Mark could have made it #2 with that Freestyle. If they were more involved with the show maybe even win. But before last evening that I think they would have been #3. There has been a bit of a disconnect with this team over the last while.  Whining about touring is just not something people care about, especially when you are professional, either suck it up and do the work or adjust your schedule.  Obviously DWTS wasn't their #1 priority which is fine, but when others are giving their time to devote to the show and they may have many commitments themselves, but don't make excuses then it resonates more because the DWTS audience is just as deserving of their all.  Heck Drew and Emma were bi-coastal the whole 10 weeks. The Frankie fans might just be more devoted.  We will see.

I fail to see where they were complaining about being on tour...And just because she is on tour doesn’t mean she is less dedicated than the others. Drew’s been filming for his shows, does that make him any less dedicated? You seem to imply that it doesn’t.

[Bridget]

16 hours ago, doLLish said:

Frankie’s talk about how confident he is won’t blip the radar (it shouldn’t, I have no problem with it) but if another contestant that shall remain nameless talked about how confident they were they’d be called cocky.

Lindsey and Mark: This was really good. It didn’t excite me as much as it did the judges though. 

“...I’ll make my Mirrorballs dance together, I’ll make them kiss!” ... Emma is a freaking powerhouse.  

From the costumes everyone has on it looks like they’ve all discarded the sob story freestyles and that is what I’m thankful for this Thanksgiving. FINALLY.

Frankie and Witney: The audience is chanting his name? LMAO. Rhythm Nation?? Is this some kind of joke? Give me a break, seriously.

Jordan and Lindsay: Not just a freestyle worthy of winning the competition but if Lindsay doesn’t win an Emmy for it she was robbed. My heart is beating out of my chest. This was the freestyle I wanted to see from them and I am floored.

Alfonso, of all people, saying Jordan needs some humble pie and the producers airing that during the freaking finale is one of the most egregious things this show has ever done. Especially since no one else received any negative comments. If it was a pros and cons thing for everyone, I would totally get it. But it wasn't. He grovels at Lindsay’s feet every chance he gets. He always directs all praise to her. He’s damn near in tears every time the judges praise him but still it’s not enough. He has to get in his knees and be thankful for even being allowed to breathe air in the Ballroom. Again this agenda being pushed with only certain people having to be humble is OBVIOUS and it’s disgusting.

 

Would be happy with either a Jordan or Lindsey win. I want it for Jordan a little more because Lindsay absolutely deserves it and she simply won’t ever have a better chance.

 

THIS!!!!!

 

I had to practice some major restraint to not bold almost everything, as I vehemently agree with almost all of your entire post. The Alfonso remark was pretty much the "Oh. Hell. No" moment for me. 

[realdancemom]

2 hours ago, Annber03 said:

While I obviously get why the contestants will talk about the parts of the rehearsal they struggled with, at the same time, every time they do, I always find myself nervously watching their dance after the video package and thinking, "C'mon, c'mon, don't drop that/don't miss that step/etc." as a result :p. I sometimes wonder if it's wise to show those "I'm so nervous about getting this right" moments right before their dances, too, 'cause I imagine that'll be weighing on their minds afterwards as a result

They didn't need to show the final rehearsal.  As soon as I saw the canes, I was nervous.  Things could have gone wrong just like Charlie showed in his Disney dance.  So I was nervous during their freestyle.  I didn't relax until he got rid of the hat and cane.  Glad they executed well and I agree with Andiethewestie that the difficulty level was an 11. 

[Bridget]

16 hours ago, Boofish said:

Alfonso Ribero is an insufferable jerk and Whitney forfeited the trophy with that over indulgent nonsense of a freestyle nonsensical remark of her former partner being aired.

I will be happy with either Lindsey/say winning

I had to read your post twice before I understood your intent re: Alfonso & Witney. However, please see my "version of your post" as it was processed in my mind the first time that I read it.

Alfonso's inappropriate comments + him being Witney's former partner/winner = people might not vote for Witney & Frankie as they (the voters) will hopefully realize that it's not cool to be such an arse on television.

[Andiethewestie]

51 minutes ago, littlecowgirl93 said:

I fail to see where they were complaining about being on tour

They were telling us for the last 3 weeks how tired they are. I guess Drew and Emma are not allowed to. 

5 minutes ago, Bridget said:

I had to read your post twice before I understood your intent re: Alfonso & Witney. However, please see my "version of your post" as it was processed in my mind the first time that I read it.

Alfonso's inappropriate comments + him being Witney's former partner/winner = people might not vote for Witney & Frankie as they (the voters) will hopefully realize that it's not cool to be such an arse on television.

....or anytime, but Carlton cannot help himself.  

[Bridget]

15 hours ago, MrsRafaelBarba said:

Anyone else see Kym in the audience tonight?

Yes, with her hubby by her side! Because he's amazing and loves her! (I sometimes forget he was on the show!) Check them out on the most recent season of "Celebrity Family Feud" and no one will ever knock them. #CoupleGoals

[Andiethewestie]

1 hour ago, Venee said:

I thought they would make them redo the Argentine Tango. I thought Len didn't like it or something and I think I remember others here speculating that may be the comeback dance.

I would have been all over that.  That AT needed a slow burn, not sentimental schlock, and it probably was not Lindsays idea to do an AT for a brotherly love package.  As much as I loved the Charleston, how exceptional would it have been to have a better AT, and then a Freestyle that pulled out all the stops without having been compared in tempo and tone to the dance you just did an hour ago. 

1 minute ago, Bridget said:

Yes, with her hubby by her side! Because he's amazing and loves her! (I sometimes forget he was on the show!) Check them out on the most recent season of "Celebrity Family Feud" and no one will ever knock them. #CoupleGoals

Kym is the sweetest. 

[littlecowgirl93]

Wow! What is it with all the bitterness towards Lindsey? What did the poor girl ever do to you? Maybe I’m just biased because Mark and Lindsey are my favorites, but that girl has gotten a lot of hate this season. As for last night really only her freestyle and Drew’s freestyle stuck out to me. At the end of the day I like to be entertained and they are the ones that entertained me. Yes, Drew’s wasn’t great technically, but it was fun and silly and true to him. I also liked the part where Emma stopped the dance, I thought it was funny. As for Lindsey, so what if it’s similar to her shows? I personally do not think it was, but that’s just me. It was creative, fun, fierce, and really just entertaining. I had been waiting on that freestyle all season and it did not disappoint. I also liked her quickstep and Jordan’s charleston. I was disappointed in his freestyle though which is a shame because I was really looking forward to it. Lindsay has choreographed some pretty epic freestyles (I love Alek’s and Calvin’s), but this one was just meh. Like others have said it felt generic and bland. It would have been interesting if she incorporated something personal, like maybe they could have danced to one of his songs or a song from Grease like Grease Lightning, etc. However, he is still a terrific dancer. As for Frankie, Whitney should have totally done a spy-themed dance where he reprised his role of Agent Cody Banks or something. Would have been true to him and I think would have been a crowd pleaser.

I also don’t get the comments made about Jordan being cocky. I don’t think he is, I actually find him charming. He is confident, but I think he is humble as well. The way I would describe him is that he’s a smooth talker. He just seems well-rehearsed like many have said. Is that due to his media training? Perhaps, but I know people who are not media trained who have a similar personality to Jordan. They just know how to say the right things and when to say them. He seems more genuine than Frankie.

I really want Mark/Lindsey to win, but will be totally fine with Jordan/Lindsay. I love both Linds(a)(e)ys, so in the end I don’t really care. Will I be sad if Lindsey/Mark doesn’t win? Yes, but I’ll be happy for Jordan/Lindsay. To me it comes down to entertainment and Lindsey/Mark have entertained me the most. To me, they’ve had more memorable dances between their VW, AT, Jive, Freestyle, and even their Paso Doble when she was injured. The only ones I can vividly remember of Jordan’s are his rumba and jive. But that’s just me. I personally find dance by itself to be quite boring, I like to be wowed and showed amazing dancing too, and to me Lindsey and Mark have done that consistently. However, as long as it’s Mark/Lindsey and Jordan/Lindsay as the last two standing I’ll be happy. Their placement is interchangeable to me.

Side Note: Did anybody else not like the version of Puttin on the Ritz that Jordan and Lindsay danced to? Maybe that’s why I didn’t like his freestyle. I much prefer the OG or Robbie William’s version, which is similar to the original.

11 minutes ago, Andiethewestie said:

They were telling us for the last 3 weeks how tired they are. I guess Drew and Emma are not allowed to. 

I only remember them mentioning it yesterday, and even then I don’t think they said anything about being tired. But we only see and hear what we want to see and hear I suppose...

[realdancemom]

7 minutes ago, Andiethewestie said:

I would have been all over that.  That AT needed a slow burn, not sentimental schlock, and it probably was not Lindsays idea to do an AT for a brotherly love package.  As much as I loved the Charleston, how exceptional would it have been to have a better AT, and then a Freestyle that pulled out all the stops without having been compared in tempo and tone to the dance you just did an hour ago. 

Kym is the sweetest. 

I would have also liked to see an AT from Jordan and Lindsay.  Then it would have not been compared to their freestyle.  I also agree that it didn't help that they had the jive last week.

Kym, Emma, and Lindsay have the sweetest personalities.

[Bridget]

16 hours ago, sab85 said:

Kym, Robert H., Apolo, Kristi, Anna T., Bindi, some more I'm probably forgetting- it was basically a reunion show. 

I saw Ryker in the audience as well. He was sitting behind Kym & Robert. 

[Annber03]

9 minutes ago, littlecowgirl93 said:

Side Note: Did anybody else not like the version of Puttin on the Ritz that Jordan and Lindsay danced to? Maybe that’s why I didn’t like his freestyle. I much prefer the OG or Robbie William’s version, which is similar to the original.

It was all right, but yeah, I kept hearing Taco's version in my head the whole time :p.

Did not know Robbie Williams did a version of that song. Will have to look that up. 

[Boofish]

22 minutes ago, Bridget said:

I had to read your post twice before I understood your intent re: Alfonso & Witney. However, please see my "version of your post" as it was processed in my mind the first time that I read it.

Alfonso's inappropriate comments + him being Witney's former partner/winner = people might not vote for Witney & Frankie as they (the voters) will hopefully realize that it's not cool to be such an arse on television.

Yes; it was 2 separate issues and Alfonso is still an arse. Witney's husband is all in Alfonso comment section on Instagram defending him and shrilling for votes

[Bridget]

19 hours ago, AnswersWanted said:

 

Alfonso being the stand out sounding like a bitter old grinch should, hopefully, make him think twice in the future. 

I I was happy to see that Tom picked up on that and made a point to, as he is so gifted in doing, turn a negative into a positive with a cute little quip about everyone having such an amazing night. 

Tom is everything.

"Well, I don't know if anyone needs pie, but this sure takes the cake.

3 hours ago, Annber03 said:

It was all right, but yeah, I kept hearing Taco's version in my head the whole time :p.

Did not know Robbie Williams did a version of that song. Will have to look that up. 

If you like Robbie Williams, you'll like his version. Promise!

Edited November 22, 2017 by Bridget
left out some of Tom's quote.

[Uke]

10 hours ago, kitcloudkicker said:

The “dust up” as I understand it, is part of a larger debate around compensation and copyright in choreography. Brian was mad about the Britney Spears choreography they used of his during the “iconic dances,” not because he wasn’t given credit, but because he didn’t get compensation. If that seems petty, think, for the music, the songwriter got compensated, Britney got compensated, the label got compensated, and the musicians who performed on the track got compensated (side note, this is likely why we get Ray Chew Live covers so often, it costs more to license both the song and the performance.) Choreography doesn’t have that setup and they’re having that debate now.

 

There was also question whether or not Mark took inspiration from this other persons work for the Human dance. The question there would be if he did, and if doing something like that is comparable to using a sample on a music track. Like Taylor Swift had to give Right Said Fred a writing credit on her latest song because it heavily sampled I’m too sexy. It’s not a “Mark, what a hack” accusation, its all very “inside baseball” and what seems to be an ongoing discussion in how choreographers start to unionize and demand protections for their work.

Yes, and it seems like a discussion that is past due, though it would be nice if they could debate the issue without hurling accusations.   I'm not going to name names here but the choreographer and her fans accusing Mark, well it turns out that she was "inspired" by someone else.  To paraphrase someone's comment, how do you "credit the first person ever to do a samba roll?"  It's not a discussion for this thread so I just wanted to address the allegation against Mark.  But yes, absolutely, the overall topic needs to be addressed.  That's one of the things I think Mandy Moore is including in the focus group or Emmy group or whatever it is that she's started.

[littlecowgirl93]

11 minutes ago, Bridget said:

If you like Robbie Williams, you'll like his version. Promise!

It’s pretty great! In fact, the whole album that the song is on is pretty great! Puttin on the Ritz is one of my favorite songs so I was disappointed with the version they used last night. Sounded too hip hop for my tastes.

Edited November 21, 2017 by littlecowgirl93

[howmanywords]

2 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

This. I swear every season of this show there are viewers claiming to have no idea why this person or that person is on the show and what their claim to fame is. Hell, during Amber Riley's season, I remember someone saying they had idea why she was even on the show because she had no claim to fame and the girl had been a regular cast member on a smash hit show that was still on the air at the time. Admittedly I had no idea who Jordan was because I outgrew Disney years ago and most of what I know of Hamilton is Lin Manuel Miranda and the other cast members who were nominated or won for their roles like Renee Goldsberry and Jonathan Groff. But I don't feel like I was obligated to know him. Interestingly, he was the one cast member I actually was not familiar with. 

There have been legitimate superstars on the show or at least people who are music or TV legends and there were the usual "I have no idea who these people are supposed to be" comments. Now I live in NYC and have seen first hand how humongous Hamilton is. I remember articles on Yahoo saying things like "Grease Standout Lands Hamilton Role" but I can see why but I can see how people don't know Jordan. I did cringe though when people saw stars like Gladys Knight on here and be like "who"?

Edited November 21, 2017 by howmanywords

[Annber03]

12 minutes ago, Bridget said:

If you like Robbie Williams, you'll like his version. Promise!

I only know a handful of his songs, but I do indeed like what I have heard, so that's really good to know, then :D. Thanks for the recommendation!

[Uke]

8 hours ago, Andiethewestie said:

Question: Where does this say that Misha Gabriel helped choreograph?  Misha isn't acknowledged here.  Anze is acknowledged for his dancing.   Brian Freidman was quite vocal on insta about how DWTS is not acknowledging the work of choreographers, in general not just the one incident, so it is interesting. If Anze did work on the Freestyle we'll maybe know about it in a few seasons on a choreographer's reel.  It just seemed familiar to me, and it was more than when Mark did a guitar dance with Sadie, it seemed like this was part of Lindsay's live show, and it's not a coincidence that Anze is her choreographer..  

At least DWTS acknowledged that Jordan and Lindsay's Freestyle particularly was Lindsay's own work by showing her bringing her notes to rehearsal.  That wasn't by accident, I think it was the show's way of making sure there was no doubt the audience knew it was her work.    

That was on a different picture.  I wasn't going to clutter up this thread with it. You can just do a search on instagram for #TeamQuackAttack and all the pictures are there, a couple group pictures of all 3 w/Mark + Sadie and one that thanks Misha specifically.

Here's one of the tweets:  https://grammio.com/en/markballas/vmuq5gTPHG/ 

9 hours ago, luvthepros said:

I saw all but Anna T. Where was she seated? I'll look for her on re-watch of the show.

If you go to Anna's twitter, she posted a pic of herself from her seat and then later on more pictures with other stars who were also there (Sherri Shepard was one, I forget who else) 

[marykat71702]

Amazing night!

Drew finally had a breakout moment, and I actually enjoyed both of his dances tonight.

Yay, a Quickstep that didn't break hold in the middle!

All of the finalists did great jobs, and I'm looking forward to tonight's show.

[Andiethewestie]

5 hours ago, thesupremediva1 said:

would bet any amount of money that Alfonso made the humble pie comment thinking the interview as over. I am surprised at the choice to air it. I agree with Alfonso 100%, but it's not a good look to have said that

If anyone knows their way around the DWTS set it is Alfonso. This guy even text Witney during his season when he did not want producers to hear or film what he had to say. So this was Alfonso, being an arse and trying to stop the vote for Jordan for two reasons - one he wanted Frankie to win for his partner, and two he maybe replaced by a younger more athletic guy as one of the best male dancers who have won DWTS.  For a narcissist like Alfonso that has got to eat him up. 

[Callaphera]

35 minutes ago, Uke said:

Yes, and it seems like a discussion that is past due, though it would be nice if they could debate the issue without hurling accusations.   I'm not going to name names here but the choreographer and her fans accusing Mark, well it turns out that she was "inspired" by someone else.  To paraphrase someone's comment, how do you "credit the first person ever to do a samba roll?"  It's not a discussion for this thread so I just wanted to address the allegation against Mark.  But yes, absolutely, the overall topic needs to be addressed.  That's one of the things I think Mandy Moore is including in the focus group or Emmy group or whatever it is that she's started.

I'm pretty sure I did a proper samba roll last night when a spider came down from the ceiling and I recoiled. (This was, of course, before I tripped over the cat and fell on my ass.) Does that mean I have to find the proper person and pay them royalties? Can I just give them a shout-out on Facebook when I relive my epic fall for the amusement of my friends? 

[Uke]

23 minutes ago, Callaphera said:

I'm pretty sure I did a proper samba roll last night when a spider came down from the ceiling and I recoiled. (This was, of course, before I tripped over the cat and fell on my ass.) Does that mean I have to find the proper person and pay them royalties? Can I just give them a shout-out on Facebook when I relive my epic fall for the amusement of my friends? 

LOL!! according to some...yes! Or you could just gift them the spider LOL!

[Andiethewestie]

I think choreographers have a legitimate right to intellectual property just as musicians and writers do.  It is not that you do a samba roll but it is the sequencing of how it is to be performed.  They are the only artists that are not included in that legislation.  

[Callaphera]

5 minutes ago, Uke said:

LOL!! according to some...yes! Or you could just gift them the spider LOL!

Oh, no. That was a sacrifice to the furry overlord that owns us. He's my knight in black and white fluff. 

[marykat71702]

3 hours ago, bealled said:

Perhaps part of the reason it didn't resonate is that Charleston. I don't really know what else he could have been assigned for redemption week. I don't even remember him having a bad week.

I wish they had done the Argentine Tango for his redemption.

[iMonrey]

What on earth is up with Lindsey's hair? It's all poofy on top but then she puts it in pigtails. Half the time she looks like Ellie Mae Clampett.

All four freestyles were big production numbers with lots of backup and that really worked against Drew because staying in sync with the pros is his weakness. Then again I guess it wouldn't have mattered what they did since his elimination was pre-determined. 

It might work against Frankie, though. I don't know what Witney was getting at about showing his "true self" or whatever claptrap she was spewing but there was nothing about that freestyle that I thought was uniquely Frankie. If anything it didn't suit his personality at all.

Hated Julianne's dress. There were little red doo-dads/puff balls all over it and one was placed right on top of her left nipple. Very distracting.

[Snappy]

I may be in the minority, but my favorite was/is Frankie. He wasn’t a dancer when the show started, and has improved 1,000 fold. Jordan was a dancer to start, and, as someone has already mentioned, hasn’t improved. He is good, but he was good to begin with. I found something offputting about Lindsay.  As for Alfonso’s comment, it may not have been the best, but Vanessa was Uber cocky, and no one called her out.

[PBGamer89]

Guess the two touring celebs are Frankie and Jordan, as per one of the mods from PureDWTS, guess Lindsey ain't winning tonight. :/

Edited November 22, 2017 by OnceSane
Added spoiler tags

[crowceilidh]

The point is that all of the former stars may have called out all of the celebs they were talking about - "what's one weakness of the celeb?" but the edit monkeys picked that one to show.  You will never ever know the truth of that I think. because the riders on the celebs contracts seem usually to stop them from discussing that kind of aspect.  To me, it's not on Alfonso -- I agree with him that Jordan has some stuff to learn on the self promotion front, although he's shown us tons of vulnerability since I first squicked at one of his tone-deaf remarks - it's on the edit monkeys.  What are they up to?  It's also a bit on Lindsay, although Jordan may not listen to her on that kind of advice.  He may think he knows better, and maybe he does.  I sense that public repetition of how well you did at something, may be a generational problem.

I'm surprised there is no tinfoil hat theory about that package they showed before Witney and Frankie danced.  That was some sinister manipulative stuff.  All the crying when we know the guy is such an amazing actor?  When the freestyle required crying for a whole bunch of totally different reasons?  I like Frankie a lot, but that whole thing stunk to high heaven.

It's interesting because Mark and Lindsey's redemption dance seemed like Jordan's freestyle to me - just not as impressive as it should have been and too long.  Impersonal and boring.  I kept wondering how on earth Mark was going to have deserved last spot.  Tonight will be very interesting.  It's defo one of those nights where I'll find out who I wanted to win when it happens.  I think Jordan and Lindsey are unquestionably deserving -- I love Frankie, but if Witney gets rewarded for that dreck, it'll have long-term bad consequences IMO. 

[luvthepros]

On 11/21/2017 at 8:10 AM, bealled said:

......... But Mark really pulled out the stops this week. Seems like he has had ideas for that freestyle for weeks. ....

In the rehearsal package, Mark got the idea for the Freestyle when he met Lindsey for the first time. She had her violin in her hand and he looked like he had an epiphany and he then said that he had a great idea for their Freestyle. That is how Mark's mind works, I guess; very creative.

Edited November 23, 2017 by luvthepros

[tessaforever]

3 hours ago, littlecowgirl93 said:

 As for Frankie, Whitney should have totally done a spy-themed dance where he reprised his role of Agent Cody Banks or something. Would have been true to him and I think would have been a crowd pleaser.

Side Note: Did anybody else not like the version of Puttin on the Ritz that Jordan and Lindsay danced to? Maybe that’s why I didn’t like his freestyle. I much prefer the OG or Robbie William’s version, which is similar to the original.

Ooo, that would have been amazing!

I loathed that version; I would rather hear the one from Young Frankenstein over that one (which my husband helpfully added during the performance). 

1 hour ago, Snappy said:

I may be in the minority, but my favorite was/is Frankie. He wasn’t a dancer when the show started, and has improved 1,000 fold. Jordan was a dancer to start, and, as someone has already mentioned, hasn’t improved. He is good, but he was good to begin with. I found something offputting about Lindsay.  As for Alfonso’s comment, it may not have been the best, but Vanessa was Uber cocky, and no one called her out.

I do see tons of improvement with Frankie, in both dance technique and performance ability. But Jordan did not come in knowing ballroom, which everyone on this show insists is very different from jazz, hip hop, Broadway, etc. So I have definitely seen improvement in Jordan too. 

23 minutes ago, crowceilidh said:

I'm surprised there is no tinfoil hat theory about that package they showed before Witney and Frankie danced.  That was some sinister manipulative stuff.  All the crying when we know the guy is such an amazing actor?  When the freestyle required crying for a whole bunch of totally different reasons?  I like Frankie a lot, but that whole thing stunk to high heaven.

It's interesting because Mark and Lindsey's redemption dance seemed like Jordan's freestyle to me - just not as impressive as it should have been and too long.  Impersonal and boring.  I kept wondering how on earth Mark was going to have deserved last spot.  Tonight will be very interesting.  It's defo one of those nights where I'll find out who I wanted to win when it happens.  I think Jordan and Lindsey are unquestionably deserving -- I love Frankie, but if Witney gets rewarded for that dreck, it'll have long-term bad consequences IMO. 

I'm curious to know your theory for the Frankie-package-producer-manipulation. Especially because he's excelled at darker dances this season, whereas the fluff (Trolls) has been terrible. Why did they try to flip the narrative?? 

Oh, I forgot to mention - I loathed Lindsey's outfit. Oh my goodness, it looked like she was wearing pantaloons with a Colonel Sanders-style bolo. Her dance was so busy and jam-packed that her outfit needed to be sleek and elegant. It's probably my biggest beef with Mark's dances, the over-costuming. 

[Andiethewestie]

25 minutes ago, luvthepros said:

In the rehearsal package, Mark got the idea for the Freestyle when he met Lindsey for the firs time. She had her violin in her hand and he looked like he had an epiphany and he then said that he had a great idea for their Freestyle. That is how Mark's mind works, I guess; very creative.

Or he watched how Lindseys choreographer works . After all they are friends.

[boyznkatz]

4 hours ago, realdancemom said:

I would have also liked to see an AT from Jordan and Lindsay.  Then it would have not been compared to their freestyle.  I also agree that it didn't help that they had the jive last week.

Kym, Emma, and Lindsay have the sweetest personalities.

Kym and Emma at least got a trophy. I really hope Lindsay gets one too, and Sharna as well.

[Bridget]

3 hours ago, Annber03 said:

I only know a handful of his songs, but I do indeed like what I have heard, so that's really good to know, then :D. Thanks for the recommendation!

May I suggest listening to Take That as well as his solo work? RW had a single with Kylie Minogue in 2000 that charted in the UK, "Kids", but it wasn't one of my favorites.

[Toonces464]

4 hours ago, littlecowgirl93 said:

Side Note: Did anybody else not like the version of Puttin on the Ritz that Jordan and Lindsay danced to? Maybe that’s why I didn’t like his freestyle. I much prefer the OG or Robbie William’s version, which is similar to the original.

Taco's version is the best!

[littlecowgirl93]

4 minutes ago, Toonces464 said:

Taco's version is the best!

Lol, no ?

[Bridget]

2 hours ago, Snappy said:

I may be in the minority, but my favorite was/is Frankie. He wasn’t a dancer when the show started, and has improved 1,000 fold. Jordan was a dancer to start, and, as someone has already mentioned, hasn’t improved. He is good, but he was good to begin with. I found something offputting about Lindsay.  As for Alfonso’s comment, it may not have been the best, but Vanessa was Uber cocky, and no one called her out.

Vanessa was beyond cocky and I was THRILLED when she went home. The night she and Nikki Bella were eliminated, I created an account with the sole intent of posting my 2 cents on that particular episode, instead of simply sitting back and reading the snark. I wanted to publicly announce how thrilled I was that Vanessa was gone.

I kind of even wish she went home before her husband because that's how much I couldn't stand her.

[jay741982]

8 hours ago, thesupremediva1 said:

Thank you. In all honesty, the only person who wasn't challenged last night was Jordan. I don't think Lindsey has ever been tossed in the air while playing violin. Frankie and Drew certainly had no experience doing the routines they were challenged with last night. But Jordan has been perfect since week 1. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Jordan could be a pro next season and I wouldn't bat an eyelash. He's on Lindsay's level. In fact, I think he might be a better dancer than Alan. I think even Meryl Davis (my favorite ever despite her ringer status) showed more improvement over the course of the season than Jordan.

My votes went to Frankie because I love him and I think Whitney knows she might have botched the freestyle in Maks fashion. But their redemption dance was my favorite. I just love him. I typically don't root for the worst dancers left, but Frankie has something so genuine about him and I enjoy watching him dance in spite of any weaknesses.

Sterling deserves the win because of Mark. That freestyle was a moment in time that will be referenced in the DWTS and TV dance canon. Mark CRUSHED it. I so missed his creativity. He's a gift to us all and I hope he wins an Emmy. Lindsey did a spectacular job all season. I've always loved her music but now I like her as a dancer and as a person.

I would bet any amount of money that Alfonso made the humble pie comment thinking the interview as over. I am surprised at the choice to air it. I agree with Alfonso 100%, but it's not a good look to have said that. I'm left to wonder if TPTB are trying to draw attention to Jordan's hubris or if they're trying to anger his fanbase into power voting.

Considering Alfonso was ripped for the comment on Instagram and Twitter they may have Angered the fan base into power voting 

[Bridget]

48 minutes ago, tessaforever said:

 

Oh, I forgot to mention - I loathed Lindsey's outfit. Oh my goodness, it looked like she was wearing pantaloons with a Colonel Sanders-style bolo. Her dance was so busy and jam-packed that her outfit needed to be sleek and elegant. It's probably my biggest beef with Mark's dances, the over-costuming. 

This! Forever!

I actually LOVED Lindsey's make-up, hair and costuming for their Paso Doble on Halloween, but I have always thought this about Mark. ALWAYS. Thank you for reminding me!

[PBGamer89]

Jordan wasn't challenged once this whole season.

He also never danced early. One time he went 2nd and every other time last or second half. He never got tough feedback. Even Corbin who has about the same amount of training, got lower scores and tougher feedback on many dances.

That's my hugets issue with Jordan, he's sailed to the victory without any struggle or improvement, A female ringer that came in as good week 1 with no improvement over the season emotionally or technically would've gotten to the finals but lost or be the "shocker" elimination, yet Jordan never once struggled.

He was treated as the DWTS god with Lindsey as the afterthought most of time.

[Andiethewestie]

49 minutes ago, PBGamer89 said:

That's my hugets issue with Jordan, he's sailed to the victory without any struggle or improvement, A female ringer that came in as good week 1 with no improvement over the season emotionally or technically would've gotten to the finals but lost or be the "shocker" elimination, yet Jordan never once struggled

Kristie Yamaguchi was excellent from the get go, she did a perfect Foxtrot in season 6 where dances were longer and ballroom was more scrutinized. CAI wanted to give her a 10 but realised that would be unfair. She got straight 9/s   Amber Riley STARTED the season with 9's from all three judges.  If there was any low spots it was due to her physical problems,  Jennifer Grey had lots of physical problems and yet managed to sweep the finale.  If Jordan struggled with his shoulder or his eye it was mentioned in passing, it was never a focus of the show. That is how it's changed, and I think for the better.  And if people campaigned like hell to get Val his first mirrorball with Rumor, then I have no problem rooting for one of the best female pros and choreographers this show has had in a long time.  Especially since I am seeing ballroom and latin out there again, danced the way it should be danced.  My biggest issue is people think there suddenly has to be a learning curve after 10 weeks of picking up choreography instead of months and years of training in a studio.  Non dancers do not learn to dance on this show. They learn choreography but they have no idea what they are doing without their pro.  So the idea that somehow a non dancer becomes one because they had a struggle is a laugh, because that notion is hugely disrespectful to dancers. 

Edited November 22, 2017 by Andiethewestie

[tessaforever]

1 hour ago, Bridget said:

This! Forever!

I actually LOVED Lindsey's make-up, hair and costuming for their Paso Doble on Halloween, but I have always thought this about Mark. ALWAYS. Thank you for reminding me!

Yes, I liked that too, and I didn't mind their Blade Runner outfits. Those costumes fit the dance. But otherwise, it often detracts from the dance instead of adding to it.