S04.E07: Nobody Roots for Goliath

[Bort]

Quote

When Annalise’s resolve to certify her class action lawsuit is tested, a surprising ally comes to her aid. Meanwhile, Laurel and Michaela hit a roadblock after someone discovers their plans to take down Laurel’s father.

[TigerLynx]

"Yes, we're all going straight to hell."  LOL.  At least these people know they are not the good guys.

[Annber03]

Oooooooooookay, so that ending scene in the hospital made my stomach do knots. The moment they started talking about roping Simon into this mess I was all, "Say good night, Simon", but with the talk Connor and Oliver were having at the end, the sheer happiness in Connor's voice as he talked about what Oliver meant to him...yeah. That sounds like a clear setup for something bad to happen to Connor.

Could be someone else entirely, though, too, who knows. 

As for other topics, swear to god, this group of people is the epitome of the phrase, "Just when I think I'm out, they pull me right back in." Oh, Asher. His creepy spying aside, he did have valid arguments for staying out of this. If only he'd stuck to his guns and they came up with another way to try and get justice for Wes.

Also, while watching Michaela squirting that dress with ketchup, all I could think was...why not just sell the thing? I was surprised to learn that she still had it. But aside from how expensive it was, well, considering she has kind of been rather distracted with all the crazy stuff going on in her life these past few seasons, she may have just stopped really thinking about it after a while :p.

Was pretty intense watching her and Asher be so at odds, though. And it's definitely going to take more than a ruined wedding dress to work out their issues. And after whatever happens next week, that's no doubt going to put even more distance between them. 

Enjoyed Annalise and Connor working together again this episode, and his excitement at her winning on that whole class-action thing.

Okay. So. Next week looks to be a doozy. Bring it on.

[HunterHunted]

Poor poor Connor. Everything was going so good for him and then...

Every one of these characters has done completely terrible things, but somehow Bonnie manages to be the worst because she's so often doing things out of petulance or anticipating what she thinks Annalise wants instead of Annalise actually asking Bonnie to do something. Bonnie does horrible things because she's a horrible person.

For someone who is entirely dependant on someone sponsoring him to stay in this country, you wouldn't think that Simon would be so odious. He even paused for a second when Oliver asked him if he got the virus from looking at porn. On. A. Work. Computer.

[Bort]

Connor might as well have been showing everybody a picture of his retirement boat that he was two days away from being able to enjoy. 

[Blue Plastic]

Baby Waitlist, LOL.

Way more productive to sell that wedding dress than squirt ketchup on it!  That was just annoying.  I would have been happier to see Michaela sell it.

I'm still just not feeling any of these people's motivations.  Yes, what happened to Wes was a nightmare and whoever did it should pay.  But this group is obviously not set up to competently and effectively operate a "sting" like this.  Still don't buy Wes and Laurel being the greatest couple of all time.  Michaela and Asher are cute but still probably not long-term material, like years down the road/marriage stuff.  And WTH is up with Nate?  Is he a glutton for punishment?  Not to mention Isaac and his weird ex-wife.  And now we see that Bonnie is still trying to help Annalise, too.  I'm not sure why everyone in her personal life is drawn to her like a moth to the flame.

They are really trying to make it look like Connor is the one having the medical emergency.

I'm hanging in there to see what crazy twisted thing is going to happen in the "winter finale," and then I'm going to be angry that we don't get any more until the spring or whenever.

[Annber03]

2 minutes ago, Blue Plastic said:

Way more productive to sell that wedding dress than squirt ketchup on it!  That was just annoying.  I would have been happier to see Michaela sell it.

When they showed the dress with all the ketchup on it, I briefly wondered if that was supposed to be some kind of symbolic image/reference to all the actual scenes of blood we've seen thus far. 

[tennisgurl]

Oh Lord, Connor is totally the one being operated on, isn't he? He is just so happy right now, and is the only K4 member who isn't involved in anything sketchy, it seems inevitable that Connor is doomed. Plus with him getting along so well with Annalise lately, him being hurt or killed will give her even more to angst about. I just dont want it to be him! At least Oliver finally told him the truth. Watching Oliver lie to Connors face every day was just getting depressing. 

Glad that Asher and Michaela made up (I just love them!) but I dont know if they'll survive whatever is apparently going to happen next week. I do wish that Asher hadn't been dragged into this whole mess, even if I knew he would. He loves the gang and will go to ridiculous attempts to help them, even if its creepy. 

I am really enjoying the whole case with Annalise, and she and Connor are working well together. It was sweet that she gave him credit and let him take the spotlight at the end, and he really seems so recharged working with her. For as much as he was saying how he didn't want to be a lawyer, he seems to really like using the law to help people. So of course, he`s soon to die, probably. Hope it was worth it, Laurel. You got justice for your boyfriend who you dated for a few months and cheated on, and only had to probably get one of your friends killed and ruined all your other friends lives. 

[UNOSEZ]

This cooky show... I keep wondering once laurel knew her dad did it.. Why she didn't go to Wes' bio Grandma.. She thought they were capable of murdering wes.. They nearly killed Anna may.. But its still her great grandbaby that got murdered.. Maybe with Anna finding out they'll get sucked back into it... Cuz i doubt whatever happens next week will be the end of it all

[Lady Calypso]

9 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Oooooooooookay, so that ending scene in the hospital made my stomach do knots. The moment they started talking about roping Simon into this mess I was all, "Say good night, Simon", but with the talk Connor and Oliver were having at the end, the sheer happiness in Connor's voice as he talked about what Oliver meant to him...yeah. That sounds like a clear setup for something bad to happen to Connor.

I am still positive it's Simon who gets shot and is the one probably in the last hospital scene (if it was Connor, they would have shown him on the operating table), but they are trying to make it seem like Connor. I also believe that he's too happy and there's no way he escapes the finale happy. He's still one of two mains now unseen still (him and Nate). He could even be the finale cliffhanger somehow. Make it seem like he's safe until he's not. I'll leave my speculation for the other thread. 

With there being too many unsolved mysteries that they've built up to, we will 100% not get all the answers; hell, we may barely get the Laurel baby answer. 

I get why Asher is upset. I think he's been over the top and too irrational at points, but he also makes good points about why they shouldn't be doing this. I was annoyed with him for a good chunk of the episode, but I did really love their emotional scene with both crying. Matt and Aja did a really amazing job in the scene. I was actually moved by their heartache. 

But yeah, squirting ketchup on a $20,000 wedding dress? I know Michaela wanted to make a big romantic move to show Asher that she loves him, but I'm with him on this one. She could just sell the dress!

Seriously, the Annalise/Connor partnership is the pairing I am loving in this messy season. I knew that it could be really good, but it's exceeded my expectations. So much so that when he was telling Oliver how happy he's made him, I actually disagreed because he's been his happiest since getting over his issues with Annalise and working for her! 

I also kind of liked Denver's role in helping Annalise out. But boo to Nate coming back into her orbit just in time for him to probably be involved in the next half season mystery. 

No opinion on the Isaac mess. He's too obsessed over Annalise, like he's in love with her. 

[Annber03]

2 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I am still positive it's Simon who gets shot and is the one probably in the last hospital scene (if it was Connor, they would have shown him on the operating table), but they are trying to make it seem like Connor. I also believe that he's too happy and there's no way he escapes the finale happy. He's still one of two mains now unseen still (him and Nate). He could even be the finale cliffhanger somehow. Make it seem like he's safe until he's not. I'll leave my speculation for the other thread. 

With there being too many unsolved mysteries that they've built up to, we will 100% not get all the answers; hell, we may barely get the Laurel baby answer. 

I think you're right. There's definitely gonna be some stuff left dangling. Gotta leave a few tantalizing things to mull over during the winter break, after all!

And yeah, this show does love to do the misdirect, so hopefully that'll be the case with Connor, too. Even if he is on the operating table, though, I don't see him actually being killed off. But if he does get hurt, it could put quite a crimp in his relationship with Oliver somehow.

If he is indeed not on the operating table, however, then I'm curious where he will be instead. Something to think about over this coming week.

Quote

I get why Asher is upset. I think he's been over the top and too irrational at points, but he also makes good points about why they shouldn't be doing this. I was annoyed with him for a good chunk of the episode, but I did really love their emotional scene with both crying. Matt and Aja did a really amazing job in the scene. I was actually moved by their heartache. 

Matt and Aja are fantastic actors, for sure. I love when they get to go all out in their dramatic moments, they can really bring the emotion and tension. 

[blackwing]

I agree that it's Simon who is shot.  The only clue we got this week was that it is a man on the table.  So it's not Tegan.  I think Simon gets fired after Oliver pins the theft of Tegan's files on Simon.  Simon gets fired at the party.  The blood spatter on the glass makes it seem like suicide to me. But I'm not sure how Asher would be a suspect then.

So sick of Bonnie.  She's so vindictive and at this point her only objective is to hurt Annalise

[Lady Calypso]

2 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I agree that it's Simon who is shot.  The only clue we got this week was that it is a man on the table.  So it's not Tegan.  I think Simon gets fired after Oliver pins the theft of Tegan's files on Simon.  Simon gets fired at the party.  The blood spatter on the glass makes it seem like suicide to me. But I'm not sure how Asher would be a suspect then.

So sick of Bonnie.  She's so vindictive and at this point her only objective is to hurt Annalise

Maybe Simon, who's pissed and thinks it's Oliver/Michaela who set him up (they would have), threatens them. The crime does happen 48 hours later, which seems to imply that it happens the day after the party, or much later after the party is over. Plus, everyone but Oliver is gone. Michaela is at the hospital, which seems to imply that she was released already or not there to begin with. Asher and Simon could have gotten into a fight that ended in Simon being shot. 

Lots of possibilities still, in one episode left. 

[Blue Plastic]

38 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Hope it was worth it, Laurel. You got justice for your boyfriend who you dated for a few months and cheated on, and only had to probably get one of your friends killed and ruined all your other friends lives. 

You said this better than I ever could.  My sentiments on Laurel exactly.

27 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

With there being too many unsolved mysteries that they've built up to, we will 100% not get all the answers; hell, we may barely get the Laurel baby answer.

If we don't at least get what happened to the baby, I'll be so po'd.  I'm sure they are going to leave us with more questions than answers, yet still I watch.

42 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

When they showed the dress with all the ketchup on it, I briefly wondered if that was supposed to be some kind of symbolic image/reference to all the actual scenes of blood we've seen thus far. 

Yes, that occurred to me as well.  A foreshadowing, a sealing of their fates.  They brought Asher in on the plan and that will be their downfall, perhaps, since he is the one crying in jail?

[possibilities]

31 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Seriously, the Annalise/Connor partnership is the pairing I am loving in this messy season. I knew that it could be really good, but it's exceeded my expectations. So much so that when he was telling Oliver how happy he's made him, I actually disagreed because he's been his happiest since getting over his issues with Annalise and working for her! 

They bring out the best in each other! It's really fun to see it. Connor and Annalise make a great team. I didn't see it til it happened, never would have imagined it. But it's my favorite thing this season, too. I'm burned out on anguish and stupidity.

Sell the damn dress. They can give the money away if they want a clean break, but trashing that kind of cash is just stupid.

Hated Laurel whining and pouting and simpering about Frank needing to luv the twu Laurel, and him falling for it. Thought I might vomit.

I don't get Bonnie.

Isaac's ex actually sabotaged Annalise's therapy and was planning to just sign her paperwork without actually treating her or making sure someone else would? Wow.

Oliver is really a bad guy. He loves the intrigue and danger and what he's doing to Simon is really cruel. Yes, they want to get justice for Wes. No, sabotaging innocent people is not the way. Wes himself would be against it, for sure. I feel bad for Connor because he's been trying to stop the violence and Oliver keeps sabotaging his efforts-- first with tanking his Stanford application and now this.

Asher is right about the plan being bad, but I still find his behavior toxic and a bit frightening. I don't like Michaela groveling for forgiveness and I don't want her with him anymore.

I'm dreading next week's episode even though I wish we didn't have to wait to see it. I'm itchy to see it but I'm worried about what will be revealed.

[Artsda]

Them getting justice for Wes on ruining Simon's life is horrid. All for what? Laurel's guilt she probably feels for cheating and is now over compensating into trying to get justice. Wes was turning on them all, why are they even doing any of this?  

Love how happy and not involved Connor is. 

Edited November 10, 2017 by Artsda

[Marley]

I feel like they are trying so hard to make it seem like Connor is on the operating table that it can’t be him. I hope it isn’t.

Asher is an annoying little prick and seemed like some bad acting coming from him tonight. Michaela is too good for him. It’s just cool he runs away and stays with his ex?

Im sorry it’s horrible Wes was killed but they are going to destroy so many lives to avenge one guy. I never liked Wes either so that may be why I don’t really care if his death gets avenged. Also I will never think Wes and Laurel were some great couple of all time. They were the worst and had no chemistry. 

[NUguy514]

They realllllllllllly were trying to telegraph that it was Connor dying on the operating table there.  It realllllllllllly better not be Connor dying on that operating table.

Oliver?  You are an awful person.  Awful.  You've proven it time and again, but you think you're this sweet, darling person who would never hurt anyone and have bamboozled everyone else into believing it.  Let me be very clear with you, though: you. are. a. shitty. human.  I hate to say it, but Connor's father, Joe McCoy, was right: you are not the right one for Connor, and I kiiiiiind of want you dead now.

Laurel?  You're a piece of shit, too.  Your insane bullshit is going to get at least one person killed, and it might be someone actually close to you.  Hope it was worth it indeed.  You can die in a fire right along with Oliver.

[apn85]

"How's Little Waitlist?" "Too big! I'm ready for him to get out of me!" "Sounds like Oliver on date night!" - Award for best line of the night! LOL 

I don't think it's Connor on the operating table. At least it best not be Connor. My money is on Simon. I think that may be why we got a smidge of his backstory tonight? Maybe humanize him a bit more? Who knows.

I'm over this whole Wes thing. Well, I have been, but I REALLY think I will be this time next week. I'm tired of Laurel roping everyone into her schemes by using Wes dying as her sales pitch. She's conned half the damn town into this mess and someone is gonna die and the whole thing looks like it's going to implode. I hope and pray that baby is Frank's because I want to see her knocked down a few pegs, I'm tired of the high & mighty attitude. The attitude of if you aren't in agreement with her you're against her. I want them to realize that the whole time she's been peddling this Wes shit that she's been pregnant with another man's baby. The baby she used to help con Michaela into this mess! 

I'm still undecided on what happens with the whole baby thing, but I'm gonna need the cheek swab to tell off on her cause it's for damn sure Frank never will! 

[Annber03]

3 minutes ago, apn85 said:

"How's Little Waitlist?" "Too big! I'm ready for him to get out of me!" "Sounds like Oliver on date night!" - Award for best line of the night! LOL 

I loved that line, too :D.

I also liked Annalise telling that guy in the courtroom, "Be quiet and the revelation will come" (or words to that effect). Her delivery and the way she looked at him as she said it had me going, "Oh, damn." Have I mentioned how nice it is to see this side of Annalise back again? 

[Empress1]

9 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Also, while watching Michaela squirting that dress with ketchup, all I could think was...why not just sell the thing? I was surprised to learn that she still had it. But aside from how expensive it was, well, considering she has kind of been rather distracted with all the crazy stuff going on in her life these past few seasons, she may have just stopped really thinking about it after a while :p.

I was like "Girl, what are you doing?! You are so dumb. Put that shit on eBay!" 

[SunnyBeBe]

Oh well, lucky for me that I couldn't give a rip who gets whacked, unless it's Michaela or Nate and it appears that at least of one of them is safe, so, if it's one of the K group of guys...it won't bother me.  I was happy to see Wes go, so, we may be on a roll.  

I am now very skeptical of Isaac's ex-wife.  How do we know that it's not her who is the crazy one?  I don't believe what she is trying to convince Annalise of.  This show seems intent to make things that appear one way to be another.  I wonder if that is also true about the Corporate deal of Lauren's dad.  Is there a twist with that too? 

The ketchup and bridal gown was a pitiful attempt by writers to be humorous and dramatic.  I don't think it worked.  After all that pleading Michaela did with Asher and he kept challenging her love.......I really wanted her to tell him to get out and just move on, BUT, I remembered how dangerous he is.  It's not good to be engaged to a man who may kill you, if you tick him off.  He sure is sanctimonious to be a murderer himself.   

[Sandman]

Oh, my God. I'd actually forgotten how Kuh. Rrrrazy. this show is!

How does someone as manipulative and cynical as Annalise not know that ex-Mrs. Dr. Sifuentes is playing her? Because, COME ON, lady. "Trust me, I'm an addiction specialist, too. It's not healthy for you to be treated by my ex-husband TO WHOM I AM OF COURSE NO LONGER ATTACHED IN ANY WAY, because of secret reasons. I'm sorry. Sign here." Is "trigger" Annalise's safe word, or something?

Also, I always knew Paris Geller was a whackjob.

Vipers, the lot of them.

possibilities, auugh! "Anguish and stupidity" is the life-blood of this show -- good call.

Edited November 10, 2017 by Sandman
That'll teach me to tune back in after two-and-a-bit seasons of ignoring this whatever-it-is fest.

[Neurochick]

Great episode.

I don’t think it’s Connor on the table because the show is making it look like it’s Connor on the table.  I think what will happen is that it’ll be Simon on the table, Connor will find out that Oliver had something to do with it and break up with him.

I really don’t care what happens to Simon because I’ve always thought him a douchebag.  I couldn’t stand Wes, but I hated Simon more, he came off a smug, nasty, entitled prick.

What I think is realistic, is these people know that blaming Simon is messed up, but they’ll do it anyway, because to them that’s the only way.  Hey, it may be the only way, and that’s sad.

I don’t get Isaac/Isaac’s ex-wife/Annalise at all.  Is Isaac falling in love with Annalise?  Is that what the ex-wife was upset about? 

Bonnie’s acting like Annalise’s jealous, vindictive ex-girlfriend.  Bonnie’s really crazy, she hates Annalise but she loves her too.  Frank is just a substitute for Annalise, IMO.

I laughed at Michaela/Asher and the wedding dress/ketchup, because that sounds like some insane over the top shit that I would have done in my twenties.  Don’t even think of selling the dress, because hey, you won’t get 20K for a dress that’s probably already out of style, so why not just destroy it.  It was a symbolic thing; Michaela wanted to show Asher that it didn’t matter that he’s not Barak and never will be, just being Asher is fine with her.

BTW, when the show was in its first season, I swear I saw the actor who plays Asher in a print ad for Brooks Brothers; and he really looked like a blue blooded Ivy League school grad.

[Sandman]

28 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

Bonnie’s acting like Annalise’s jealous, vindictive ex-girlfriend.  Bonnie’s really crazy, she hates Annalise but she loves her too.  Frank is just a substitute for Annalise, IMO.

Yep. Even not watching after the first season, that's how I'd call it, too.

[jaigurudeva]

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

Don’t even think of selling the dress, because hey, you won’t get 20K for a dress that’s probably already out of style, so why not just destroy it.  It was a symbolic thing; Michaela wanted to show Asher that it didn’t matter that he’s not Barak and never will be, just being Asher is fine with her.

They could still get at least $5000-8000 for a last season Vera Wang custom-designed wedding dress, which isn't something to sniff at given that most of these people don't have sources of income. I think just Oliver is officially hired on to Tegan's firm as IT, but Michaela, Laurel, and Conner are all interns for their respective lawyers, Annaliese is self-employed and working pro-bono on the civil suit, and Asher is unemployed. And yet Conner is quick to tear up a $30,000 check and Michaela ruins her $20,000 dress like money is no object to them, and they can all afford the rent for such beautiful apartments in Philadelphia. (Well, Annaliese at least is living in a some kind of brothel, but she's the only one living within her means.)

[Neurochick]

2 minutes ago, jaigurudeva said:

They could still get at least $5000-8000 for a last season Vera Wang custom-designed wedding dress, which isn't something to sniff at given that most of these people don't have sources of income. I think just Oliver is officially hired on to Tegan's firm as IT, but Michaela, Laurel, and Conner are all interns for their respective lawyers, Annaliese is self-employed and working pro-bono on the civil suit, and Asher is unemployed. And yet Conner is quick to tear up a $30,000 check and Michaela ruins her $20,000 dress like money is no object to them, and they can all afford the rent for such beautiful apartments in Philadelphia. (Well, Annaliese at least is living in a some kind of brothel, but she's the only one living within her means.)

I never really think of those things while watching TV shows, because most shows on TV make zero sense when it comes to important things like rent, if I did, then I'd be focused on things like that, instead of the show.  

[tennisgurl]

As of now, the biggest shock of the season is that Conner and Annalise have basically stayed out of everyone's bullshit and just gotten work done without covering up crimes or doing anything super duplicitous. Of course, next week that will all go down the drain, presumably thanks to Bonnie and/or Laurel and their revenge schemes that screw over everyone who didn't actually do anything to them. 

I never thought I would be saying this during the shows first season, but Conner's way too good for Oliver. I normally like them, but at this point, I really think Conner should get out of this relationship and focus on his work. 

[HunterHunted]

2 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I never really think of those things while watching TV shows, because most shows on TV make zero sense when it comes to important things like rent, if I did, then I'd be focused on things like that, instead of the show.  

Girl, I love some housewives. My first thought after the ketchup was send that dress to Dorinda Medley's (RHoNY) boyfriend, John Mahdessian, who owns Madame Paulette drycleaners and then sell the dress on eBay.

[truthaboutluv]

Just saw the episode and haven't read the comments so I'm sure others have already said this but I'm now positive the guy shot at the law firm is Simon. This episode clearly tried to make it seem like it could be Connor but I think it's Simon after Oliver basically sets him up for stealing Tegan's card and he likely gets fired. We now know he's worried about being deported and really wanting the job so I can see that. Still doesn't explain whose blood Annalise has on her but I think that ties to what happened to Laurel's baby. 

Meanwhile, I am supremely disappointed that Asher and Michaela didn't really break up. Sorry, not sorry - just not a fan. I continue to not care about Laurel and Frank because I still hate and don't care for them as a pairing. Bonnie continues to be awesomely batshit crazy. And while I understand why Oliver's guilt made him confess to Connor after his proposal, I really wish he hadn't. I liked Connor not being a part of any of this mess. Connor, probably more so than any of the Keating 5, now Keating 4 has been broken by all the murders, lies, cover ups, etc. they've been involved with. It's just not been great for the guy's mental state. But he was happy helping Annalise with her class action case and doing something good. Now he's of course dragged back in all of this. Of course we all knew he would be eventually but it was nice seeing him not so miserable for a change. 

 

Quote

Still don't buy Wes and Laurel being the greatest couple of all time.

Uh are they trying to sell that? Considering we now know Laurel banged Frank behind his back, lied to him about it and has since gone back to her regularly scheduled programming of banging Frank and with her swiping his mouth this episode, I assume we're supposed to gather that she's now willing to accept that he could be the father. If anything, the last episodes have been them trying to sell Frank and Laurel as this great love which is laughable in my opinion. But it does make me hate Laurel even more for her over the top grieving girlfriend routine over Wes because like girl please. 

 

Quote

 I hope and pray that baby is Frank's because I want to see her knocked down a few pegs, I'm tired of the high & mighty attitude. The attitude of if you aren't in agreement with her you're against her. I want them to realize that the whole time she's been peddling this Wes shit that she's been pregnant with another man's baby. The baby she used to help con Michaela into this mess! 

This so much. 

Another point to Simon being the one shot at the firm and not Connor is as someone else noted in an earlier episode thread, Oliver looks way too calm for it to have been Connor. The only way I can see Connor being on the operating table is if the misdirect is that the person on the operating table wasn't the one shot at the firm. So Simon maybe killed himself at the firm and is maybe already in the morgue and whatever happened that left Annalise a bloody mess, involved Connor that now has him fighting for his life. 

 

Quote

 And WTH is up with Nate?

He truly seems to exist now solely to skulk around judging everyone and giving advice no one wants. 

And I agree with others that Isaac's ex-wife may be the one who's truly crazy. Not saying Isaac doesn't have his issues, since we saw the scene of them talking and him crying over the video of his daughter but I have a feeling Annalise signing that document with Isaac's ex-wife will come back to haunt her.

Edited November 10, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[Star Aristille]

7 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I really don’t care what happens to Simon because I’ve always thought him a douchebag.  I couldn’t stand Wes, but I hated Simon more, he came off a smug, nasty, entitled prick.

What I think is realistic, is these people know that blaming Simon is messed up, but they’ll do it anyway, because to them that’s the only way.  Hey, it may be the only way, and that’s sad.

No, they're doing it to him because they hate him (rightly so), not because it's "the only way."  That's all to which it boils down.

[icedcoffeepls]

That moment Oliver suggested blaming Simon for stealing the card from Tegan is and everybody went like yeah let's do it is when I realised they are truly horrible people lol.

 

I'm so curious as to what exactly is going to happen.

Also.. Nate's arms.. need I say more..

[apn85]

30 minutes ago, icedcoffeepls said:

That moment Oliver suggested blaming Simon for stealing the card from Tegan is and everybody went like yeah let's do it is when I realised they are truly horrible people lol.

 

"We're already going to Hell." just might be the most sensible thing Laurel has said all season! 

[Sandman]

Even though they've begun to recognize that they're all fairly horrible people, they're still justifying their behaviour as driven by necessity -- "it's the only way" -- rather than as driven by what actually drives them: self-protection or self-righteous revenge. But "we're doing this because Laurel's wearing the Crazy Hat this season, and so we all hate her father" has a much less noble ring.

[Keepitmoving]

Michaela putting ketchup on that 20K wedding dress reminded me yet again of why I hate the writing in Shondaland, corny ass shit, ugh. That was some privileged ass bullshit, and Michaela is no way in hell privileged and she hasn't forgotten that PN. This is the kind head in the clouds shit that Shonda use to pull just for some cheesy symbolism, "eye roll". Anyone but Michaela would fuck up a dress costing that much money. The last time she sold something of her past future with what's his name was when she sold her engagement ring. She sold it because she had to recovery the money she lost at the casino, but then she took a thousand of that money and put in a homeless man's pocket.  But now PN wants me to not roll my eyes at her not putting that dress up for sale and taking the proceeds if not for herself, then to make a donation to a homeless shelter or some other charity. Hell, she and Asher could have done that together to solidify their fresh start, which is going up in smoke next week LOL.  But are they freaking kidding me? Gosh, I hate the juvenile writing in Shondaland, hate it.

Aja is a fantastic actress, that crying scene with her character and Asher was great, they both were.

I have to keep reminding myself that Simon did put up those flyers of Anna, with the word murder written in red across her face. Otherwise, damn, that is fucked up what they are about to do to him, seriously?

Quote

I hope and pray that baby is Frank's because I want to see her knocked down a few pegs, I'm tired of the high & mighty attitude. The attitude of if you aren't in agreement with her you're against her. I want them to realize that the whole time she's been peddling this Wes shit that she's been pregnant with another man's baby. The baby she used to help con Michaela into this mess! 

Yeah, I 'll believe this when I see it. Not on this show, she pays for nothing, or if she does, she gets the empathy and all the attention. Frank will be there to pick her ass up off the damn floor, and I'll continue to have to suffer through her fucking tears and pain, while these writers make Michaela pay, and Asher, and Oliver and every damn body else. But yet it'll be where's that damn baby 24/7 because hey, it's a baby who is unfortunately attached to Laurel.

Edited November 11, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[Milaxx]

22 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I am still positive it's Simon who gets shot and is the one probably in the last hospital scene (if it was Connor, they would have shown him on the operating table), but they are trying to make it seem like Connor. I also believe that he's too happy and there's no way he escapes the finale happy. He's still one of two mains now unseen still (him and Nate). He could even be the finale cliffhanger somehow. Make it seem like he's safe until he's not. I'll leave my speculation for the other thread. 

......

Simon is my number 1 choice. Especially now that they are giving him an actual backstory. Nate is my second choice.

18 hours ago, apn85 said:

"How's Little Waitlist?" "Too big! I'm ready for him to get out of me!" "Sounds like Oliver on date night!" - Award for best line of the night! LOL 

I......

It's funny how the show has clearly established Connor as a bossy bottom when it comes to Oliver. 

12 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

.....

I am now very skeptical of Isaac's ex-wife.  How do we know that it's not her who is the crazy one?  I don't believe what she is trying to convince Annalise of.  This show seems intent to make things that appear one way to be another.  I wonder if that is also true about the Corporate deal of Lauren's dad.  Is there a twist with that too? 

.....

That's my guess. Girlfriend is crazy and manipulative. Is she the one Issac is speaking to on the phone in ep 4.2? He's on the phone and he says, "Now is not the tie to discuss this. You know what you are doing, you know that it's wrong. You keep going like this and I'll stop picking up your calls." Something about her I don't trust. Issac may be having some depression because of his session with AK, but Mrs. Roa may as well come with flashing red lights.

12 hours ago, Neurochick said:

Great episode.

I don’t think it’s Connor on the table because the show is making it look like it’s Connor on the table.  I think what will happen is that it’ll be Simon on the table, Connor will find out that Oliver had something to do with it and break up with him.

,,,,,

BTW, when the show was in its first season, I swear I saw the actor who plays Asher in a print ad for Brooks Brothers; and he really looked like a blue blooded Ivy League school grad.

I think if it was Connor Oliver would be more upset. 

Matt McGory did do a print ad  for Brooks Brother's.

10 hours ago, jaigurudeva said:

They could still get at least $5000-8000 for a last season Vera Wang custom-designed wedding dress, which isn't something to sniff at given that most of these people don't have sources of income. I think just Oliver is officially hired on to Tegan's firm as IT, but Michaela, Laurel, and Conner are all interns for their respective lawyers, Annaliese is self-employed and working pro-bono on the civil suit, and Asher is unemployed. And yet Conner is quick to tear up a $30,000 check and Michaela ruins her $20,000 dress like money is no object to them, and they can all afford the rent for such beautiful apartments in Philadelphia. (Well, Annaliese at least is living in a some kind of brothel, but she's the only one living within her means.)

I believe their internships are paid and Connor's dad let him keep the 30K. Not sure if AK is paying Connor but between the money from his dad and Oliver's job I'm sure he's fine. Micheala not selling that Vera Wang, however was just plain stupid.

4 hours ago, Star Aristille said:

No, they're doing it to him because they hate him (rightly so), not because it's "the only way."  That's all to which it boils down.

Other than Oliver they dislike him, but truth be told I think they just don't care enough to worry about him. They are terrible people, making bad decisions they say are for Wes, but really they are just team bad decisions. Anyone outside of their circle doesn't matter.  Even Tegan who Micheala claims to admire is okay collateral damage if it suits their needs.

 

****

These folks couldn't do right is they tried. Oddly enough the 2 that are trying AK and Connor, won't be for long. AK seems to somehow be making some real progress in therapy dissecting the issues with her marriage to Sam. Her reasons for drinking, etc... Then she goings and plays dirty in court again because she just HAS to win at all cost. I'm also wondering who is this last client Nate is promising to put her in contact with if she gets the class action certificate. 

I really feel bad for Connor because he is truly trying to move on, but he was complicit with AK in that deal they made with Denver. I really don't want him to become Bonnie 2.0. Oliver seriously pissed me off this week. I'm glad he finally told Connor the truth, but lying was the issue the first time around.  Out of all the Keating folks Connor was the one really trying to move on and start fresh. Oliver lets Micheala suck him to this hair brain scheme. To me this lie is worse than the Stanford letter because Oliver knew full well that it was lies that almost destroyed them in the first place. I felt Tyra Banks "We were all routing for you levels of rage." at that. I found the blanket forts & the proposal really cute, but PN giveth and PN taketh away. *sigh*

Bonnie is really playing dirty. I'm sure it was her info that got the AG to plant that bottle of vodka in her hotel room and subpeona Isaac. She really does act like a scorned lover. I wonder if they didn't sleep together that night AK tried to OD on pills.

Asher was somehow 100% right this week between telling Micheala to sell the wedding dress, to questioning Micheala's feelings for him, to trying to stop #teambaddecision and still comes across as pouty and petulant.

Frank and Asher both get thumps upset the head for letting Micheala and Laurel manipulate them into going along with this insanity. Why has Frank not figured out that a large part of the reason Laurel wants to punish her father is her guilt over Wes? So we're 5 mths from the first episode. Laurel is more or less term. If her baby is stolen, I guess were to assume its a viable birth.

Simon being a DACA kid also puts Rebecca back into play as Bonnie's long lost kid. It also makes more sense out of his love/hate for the K5. I'm going to assume he researched them and was mad when he couldn't make the cut. Season 1 AK would have been a good sponsor for his visa. It also makes sense why he gave up those notes. He can't afford to be reported to the police.

[helenamonster]

Yeah, they're telegraphing Connor being on the operating table so hard that it can't be him. My money's on Simon as well.

I think I said this in a thread last season but what bothers me about the show (rather halfheartedly) trying to sell Laurel and Wes as a great love story is that it's so unnecessary. Before they started boning, they were really good, close friends. Laurel could easily be this upset and distraught over losing a friend in a fire she also almost died in. She could also want revenge on Jorge for killing a close friend. The random romantic evolution of their relationship, now with this whole who's the daddy mess for a baby that probably won't make it past the winter finale, just made everything so convoluted and stupid. I'm ready for her to have the baby or for it to be cut out of her or whatever just so that this chapter in the show is finally over. And Lord strike me down for saying this but I hope it's dead so that we can move tf on.

The other thing too is I wish the show would acknowledge that Laurel's thirst for revenge is clearly not just about Wes, but about all the other things that her father has done to her over the years.

I used to like Asher and Michaela but he was such an insufferable little shit this whole episode (especially during the dress-ruining scene) that I'd rather they call it quits. But they're probably endgame.

Oded Fehr! Haven't seen him in a minute, but I'd recognize that voice anywhere.

So whatever goes down at C&G probably happens during the party. It's so over-the-top and soapy. I love it.

The first three seasons had nine episodes in the first part and six in the second, but this half-season is ending on episode eight. Are they going to do seven episodes in the back half or cap it at fourteen this season?

Kinda sorta joking but not really question: if Laurel's trifling means Simon dies and his annoying ass is off the show for good, will people start to like her again?

24 minutes ago, Milaxx said:

Frank and Asher both get thumps upset the head for letting Micheala and Laurel manipulate them into going along with this insanity. Why has Frank not figured out that a large part of the reason Laurel wants to punish her father is her guilt over Wes? So we're 5 mths from the first episode. Laurel is more or less term. If her baby is stolen, I guess were to assume its a viable birth.

Only three months have passed since the first episode, that was the timestamp at the end of 4x01. Laurel was four months pregnant in the first episode, which means she's only seven months pregnant now and in forty-eight hours when the half-season ends.

[Milaxx]

3 minutes ago, helenamonster said:

Only three months have passed since the first episode, that was the timestamp at the end of 4x01. Laurel was four months pregnant in the first episode, which means she's only seven months pregnant now and in forty-eight hours when the half-season ends.

Your're  right the flashforwards started at 3 mths later, but  at the dinner Laurel said she had 5 mths to go. In court AK says she has been in therapy for the past 5mths. This show gives me a headache.

5 minutes ago, helenamonster said:

And Lord strike me down for saying this but I hope it's dead so that we can move tf on.

I want the crazy exwife to run away with it. I guess I should burn too.

Edited November 11, 2017 by Milaxx

[Keepitmoving]

Quote

And Lord strike me down for saying this but I hope it's dead so that we can move tf on.

I know I can't mouth the words or thoughts even on a fictional baby, but I just don't care. At this point, I don't care because the kid is attached to Laurel. But then if something really did happen to him, I'll have to suffer through tears and/or a mental breakdown and  yet again all roads and attention leading to Laurel. Either way, if it's ok or not, they'll be no moving on.

[helenamonster]

26 minutes ago, Milaxx said:

Your're  right the flashforwards started at 3 mths later, but  at the dinner Laurel said she had 5 mths to go. In court AK says she has been in therapy for the past 5mths. This show gives me a headache.

I want the crazy exwife to run away with it. I guess I should burn too.

I missed the line about Annalise saying she's been in therapy for five months in this episode, but Laurel saying she had five months to go and then the episode telling us that it was three months later and there was no baby was the big tip off that something really terrible had happened.

[NUguy514]

21 hours ago, apn85 said:

"How's Little Waitlist?" "Too big! I'm ready for him to get out of me!" "Sounds like Oliver on date night!" - Award for best line of the night! LOL 

 

1 hour ago, Milaxx said:

It's funny how the show has clearly established Connor as a bossy bottom when it comes to Oliver. 

That would actually make Oliver the bossy bottom. ;-)

Dear Powers-That-Be,

Stop trying to make the Wes-and-Laurel-were-the-greatest-love-of-all-time thing happen.

With extreme vexation,

NUguy514

[apn85]

4 hours ago, Keepitmoving said:

I know I can't mouth the words or thoughts even on a fictional baby, but I just don't care. At this point, I don't care because the kid is attached to Laurel. But then if something really did happen to him, I'll have to suffer through tears and/or a mental breakdown and  yet again all roads and attention leading to Laurel. Either way, if it's ok or not, they'll be no moving on.

See, the thing about this is God she'll go ON and ON and ON and ON about the kid. Sweet Baby Jesus. I know it's gonna happen regardless, but if they strike the baby down I don't know that I'll survive it. Not the death, but Laurel in the aftermath. If that kid were Frank's and lived she'd drop the Wes shit like a hot rock. That is just how she is. Whatever annoys me the least, THAT is what needs to happen! 

[apn85]

5 hours ago, helenamonster said:

Only three months have passed since the first episode, that was the timestamp at the end of 4x01. Laurel was four months pregnant in the first episode, which means she's only seven months pregnant now and in forty-eight hours when the half-season ends.

I thought Laurel was 5 months to start also, but I think where I am getting the 5 from is her saying the baby was due in 5 months. So yeah, she's 7'ish months so that puts her somewhere between 28-31 weeks pregnant. That is wayyyy too early for a baby to be expected to breathe on his own. Especially a boy - it's fact they do worse than baby girls prematurely. Nowalk can do whatever he wants with that, it's his world, but realistically, the baby would be in trouble without NICU access. He'd struggle to breathe until he eventually just gave out. Lungs just aren't ready. So, yeah, good luck to whoever swipes him. 

[UNOSEZ]

I don't see the show trying to make wes and laurel some grand love affair.. They were two kids who were attracted to each other and immediately laurel was protective of wes... Grew close thru all manner of mayhem... And even tho they were with other ppl found their way to each other... Then more murder and madness and secrets.. And then some sex and hope for the future in a possible child... And then Wes is murdered.. Of course shes gonna go nuts.... Also why are ppl so mad at bonnie... She helped Annalise.. She knew Roa would back her up so she set up the A. G.... Maybe even helped her current boss Denver as well...  Now bonnie is nuts.. And I'm just waiting for her secret kid to pop up but she doesn't need our hate this week

[Milaxx]

8 hours ago, NUguy514 said:

10 hours ago, Milaxx said:

It's funny how the show has clearly established Connor as a bossy bottom when it comes to Oliver. 

That would actually make Oliver the bossy bottom. ;-)

I stand corrected.

 

4 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

I don't see the show trying to make wes and laurel some grand love affair.. They were two kids who were attracted to each other and immediately laurel was protective of wes... Grew close thru all manner of mayhem... And even tho they were with other ppl found their way to each other... Then more murder and madness and secrets.. And then some sex and hope for the future in a possible child... And then Wes is murdered.. Of course shes gonna go nuts.... Also why are ppl so mad at bonnie... She helped Annalise.. She knew Roa would back her up so she set up the A. G.... Maybe even helped her current boss Denver as well...  Now bonnie is nuts.. And I'm just waiting for her secret kid to pop up but she doesn't need our hate this week

I am annoyed at Laurel because last season we had to endure her weeping widow behavior while many of use struggled to accept the Wes Laurel love affair.  I get the concern and grief of all the K5 but Laurel felt OTT. This season we find out she slept with Frank in the middle of this grand love affair we were barely buying in the first place. It makes it feel as if it's less about avenging the love of her life and more about assuaging her guilt over cheating on him. Laurel has know her father is a "bad man" since she was sixteen and her refused to pay her ransom then made her perjure herself on the stand. She has lived off those ill gotten gains. It's one thing to do so as a minor, but she now an adult. Her ER records listed her as 27.  When she went to NYC(Ohio?) with Wes she used CC paid for by her father. She even said so when Wes said he couldn't afford a last minute plane ticket. If her dad was such a "bad man" why continue to live off those ill gotten gains? The annoyance factor is heightened because she's manipulating everyone into helping her and because they are all so dysfunctional they are going along. 

Bonnie is nuts because she's secretly in love with AK and instead of getting into non Sam related therapy and dealing with that, she keep acting out. Telling the AG about Isaac was a low blow, but telling him about vodka being her drink of choice was a super low blow.

[darkestboy]

I really don't think Connor is going to die but he has been rather happy these last few episodes and all the sweet moments he had with Oliver and Annalise, it's easy to see why the writers are trying to make us believe that it could be him though.

Simon on the other hand with everything we've learned about him is probably the body on the operating table but does he actually die though? Thank goodness there's only next week to answer that one then.

Asher and Frank were almost too easily won over by Laurel and Michaela but at least there's a team effort here and we've got Connor also to be added into the mix.

Though I liked the conclusion, it did feel like they finished up the class action storyline for Annalise for next week's benefit.

Isaac gets more interesting per episode even if he assumed the worst of Bonnie.

The show is struggling with Nate though, 8/10

[Milaxx]

ITA regarding Connor and Simon.

 However, the class action isn't done. The  judge just  awarded them Class action certification. So instead of each each f the 79 people AK has signed up bringing his or her own lawsuit, the class action allows all the claims of all class members—whether they know they have been damaged or not—to be resolved in a single proceeding through the efforts of the representative plaintiff(s) and appointed class counsel. That trial has yet to happen. I have a feeling that the trial will be part of the second half of the season's storyline along with whoever the mystery person Nate claims to have for AK. My guess is this will be the rest to AK's career and credibility again.

[Panopticon]

Like everyone else, my first thought was that Michaela could/should/would sell that dress. She started life with less than nothing. She's gotten as far as she has by being brilliant and practical and ambitious, not by being frivolous and dramatic. 

But by the end, I kind of liked that she made her wasteful grand gesture instead because it was out of character. I think she shocked herself with the revelation that she might someday be happy with an Asher and not a Barack and needed to spin off of that a little, in addition to coping with the stress of Laurel's stupid plan.  She ruined the dress it to prove a point to Asher, yes, but she also seemed to be living in the moment and getting some pure enjoyment out of the act of destruction. It could be good for her going forward to have had the experience of letting go just because it feels good--just because it pleases her and pleases this man she loves-- when even silver-spoon-born Asher pointed out that there was a sensible alternative. 

Even if her relationship with Asher doesn't last. Even if Asher turns out not to be worth it. 

[healthnut]

I love this show but it has SO many issues!

1. Michaela/Asher - Asher confronts Michaela after spying on her and her immediate reaction is to explain! Normal Michaela would be pissed he bugged her. Asher's behavior this episode was over the top to me. And Michaela had no problem selling her engagement ring, why not her dress? The ketchup thing was just stupid.

2. Laurel/Frank - Like many of you, I hated Laurel/Wes, I don't care about the baby and I don't see how a baby fits into this universe. I do like Frank and I like Frank with Laurel, I don't particularly care for him begging to be with her. So now he plans to got to Middleton, too, since his scores were so great. Are they going to time jump next season five years in the future, so he's already a lawyer. This whole Frank takes LSAT is coming out of nowhere for me.

3. Laurel's Plan - This plan is stupid. It's quite far fetched Laurel's dad got wind of Wes's agreement and had him killed so his IPO wasn't ruined. This is so left field, IMO. This plan is ridiculous and why anyone would agree to it, Michaela included is beyond me. 

Boy, a lot sure happens in the next 48 hours. I'm still not really understanding Isaac's role or the weird occurrence of his ex-wife. 

Also, couldn't believe Nate is cool enough to let Annalise sleep on his sofa or that she really had nowhere else to go.

Oh, this show...

[possibilities]

I know they haven't dropped any hints to suggest this is possible, and it's purely just my personal wishes, but what if Jorge is one of the people bleeding at one of the crime scenes? We do know the C&G party is for Antares. So he and/or his minions are in town. And they could go after Annalise and get shot by Nate, or by Anna herself, while doing so. Or, just as/more likely, maybe they are at the C&G party and Asher decides to shoot Jorge, because he's that kind of a dude and we do know he's in jail.

I still can't picture Laurel at Anna's apartment, so the speculation that the blood there is related to Laurel seems like a stretch, unless maybe she went to hassle Connor. I guess if that happened, maybe Connor is kidnapped along with "little waitlist". But then how did Laurel get to the hospital?

We know someone is entering A's apartment (they placed the booze this week), and that Isaac has met Michaela, Frank, Laurel before the events, and is freaked out about Anna not answering his call. None of that has been set up at all with any plausible explanation, either, so I suppose nothing is off the table at this point-- there are way too many unanswered questions and too many pieces they have not even hinted at showing us, for us to have a well-founded idea of what happened, at this point. Too many gaps.