S16.E13: Finale, Part 1

[Eulipian 5k]

The eyebrows and top knot on Kentaro's model reminded me of some traditional Japanese images. But , cheese n rice, it did not translate well to these models! Serious Groucho-meets-Frida territory!

[Showthyme]

On 11/10/2017 at 5:53 AM, pasdetrois said:

Kudos to production for giving us relatively sane contestants, once the insufferable twins were gone, and no nasty fighting. I enjoyed this season more than many of the previous ones. And even if I don't like certain aesthetics, we have real designers in the competition.

I suspect Tim is suffering from a malaise. Several seasons ago I noticed shaky hands and now he has fallen a couple times. He has said that he lives alone and I hope someone is looking out for him. That said, he hasn't lost The Tim Gunn Thinker Pose, in which he shoots his cuffs, folds his arms, brings his hand to his lips, and frowns. It signals that the thunder is coming. "Can I just be blunt...."

Kenya's looks reminded me of church ladies. On Easter Sunday when they wear their very best outfits. Plus she has little confidence and defaults to victimization as part of her campaign to win. It was time for her to go. I think she was very angry upon learning that she was going home. She showed that tight-faced anger a previous time when she thought she was going home. I don't think she was trying not to cry; I think she was furious.

Kentaro, the piano and the dead cat were hilarious, like an SNL skit or a Christopher Guest movie. He is one of my favorite PR contestants ever. ETA: I liked what I could see of his collection during the home visit. I think the black net pouf on his white dress was an effort to be cohesive; there were black net and pleats in other looks the judges didn't see.

I also like Brandon very much, but I could never wear his stuff. I think he's playing a very strategic game. Apparently the girlfriend is a bit bossy.

Margarita should thank her lucky stars that Tim warned her away from the 70s crochet-and-gold-rings motif.

I can't get behind Ayana's modesty fashion because I don't like the political and religious message behind it. Too many men down through the years telling women to cover their bodies.

The timing of the virtual Heidi appearance was very odd. I bet there's a story there.

I need this on a coffee mug. Thank you, Tim Gunn.

 

"Can I just be blunt...."

[PrincessSteel]

I have developed a theory about the apparent coronation of Brandon: the show is running out of potential contestants and the producers want to encourage menswear designers to try out. 

[morakot]

It was nice to see Brandon be smiling, laughing, and happy on Tim's visit.

[enoughcats]

On 11/12/2017 at 0:42 PM, dleighg said:

On 11/12/2017 at 11:10 AM, Empress1 said:

Was Kenya's model in the black dress going braless? It bothered me for some reason. I felt like it messed with the look of the dress.

yeah, that really damaged the effect IMHO. Her boobs were very droopy.

I thought I heard comments to the effect that that was the only dress Kenya had that would fit that model and she HAD to use that model.  Had she put the model in a bra, the bra would have shown with that 'neck'line and probably pushed her boobs into more exposure than intended.  

[rereader2]

32 minutes ago, enoughcats said:

I thought I heard comments to the effect that that was the only dress Kenya had that would fit that model and she HAD to use that model.  Had she put the model in a bra, the bra would have shown with that 'neck'line and probably pushed her boobs into more exposure than intended.  

Yes, she definitely did say that that was the only dress that would fit that model--that was when Tim told her to use a different outfit.

[film noire]

On 11/10/2017 at 7:53 AM, pasdetrois said:

 Too many men down through the years telling women to cover their bodies.

Yes -  and too many men down through the years telling women to show their flesh -- a bikini under a burka being the one thing  that would satisfy every form of patriarchy.

On 11/10/2017 at 11:18 AM, Jextella said:

I like what Margarita aims to do, but she doesn't quite get there, IMO.  Of her two looks, each had something great - bell bottoms on one and the bomber jacket on the other - but the other halves of the outfits weren't so hot. 

I think she's missing the kind of tailored pieces that would flip that wild print/tropical sensibility into something high end -- a jacket, a white dress shirt, a Jackie O turtleneck,  a trench, a pea coat -- something surprising and structured framing the tropical vibe.

Edited November 14, 2017 by film noire

[Sprockets]

33 minutes ago, film noire said:

Yes -  and too many men down through the years telling women to show their flesh -- a bikini under a burka being the one thing  that would satisfy every form of patriarchy.

Interesting.  I've read that very orthodox Muslim women are huge buyers of sexy lingerie.  No one knows what's under there.  

[film noire]

35 minutes ago, Sprockets said:

 I've read that very orthodox Muslim women are huge buyers of sexy lingerie.  No one knows what's under there.  

I love the photo below (spoilered in case anybody is offended by nudity) from Hussein Chalayan's  1997 Burka show. The degrees of separation from one (coverage) to the other (nude) are so few; four steps. 

Spoiler

Edited November 14, 2017 by film noire

[Angeleyes]

I’m all for using color, but I have seen items very similar to Margarita’s in tourist trap clothing boutiques in beach towns. One of her outfits has a giant cartoon fish on it. I’m sure if she had shown that to the judges it would have been Kenya moving forward instead. 

I love Kenya, but she did a terrible job fitting her model in the black dress. There were problems in the hips as well as the model almost falling out of the dress in the bust area. I think that’s why she was auf’d instead of Margarita. I did like her second outfit as well as some of the other pieces in her collection. It’s too bad she didn’t have the option of trading out the black dress for something else. 

I didn’t get the judges’ criticism of Kentaro’s white dress. It seemed very similar to things Brandon has sent down the runway. If he had attached some straps or dangling flamingos to the side instead of the black poof the judges would have fallen all over themselves to praise it thinking it was Brandon’s. I like Kentaro’s modern, architectural style. I thought the peach dress was elegant and the white dress fun and flirty. 

I thought Brandon’s choice of the flamingo print was odd. I don’t think it really helped the look of his clothing. It didn’t photograph well in the runway thread (thus the hospital gown references), so it will be interesting to see if it looks any better on TV. I thought he should have used the plainer pink top on Liris because it looked better on her. The top they chose looked like a cross between a giant diaper and that Bo Peep bonnet from the previous episode. It was so unflattering. 

I loved Ayana’s gray/silver outfit with the jacket. I would buy that immediately. I would love it if she went a different direction and produced an athleisure line. I think she has it in her to produce some cool pieces and that market is hot right now. 

[Surrealist]

On 11/12/2017 at 0:09 PM, bitchin camaro said:

Oh, I know what they meant. It sounded really condescending to me (not a Miamian.) 

I'm not from Miami. I've never traveled to Florida, but Heidi's comment came across as condescending to me too. 

[enoughcats]

5 hours ago, film noire said:

 a trench, a pea coat

Years ago, one of the PR contestants opened a store in NYC and (I remember the name Emmitt) he offered a trench coat with a white background with fabulous colored flowers on it. (I may be remembering it all wrong).  Darned coat sold out, not that it was in my size.  But great trench coats would be winter coats in so much of this country where beautiful heavy wool coats just aren't practical. 

eta it was Emmett and his store was EMc2 and it's closed.  This link has some good reviews of the kind of clothing it had

https://www.yelp.com/biz/emmett-mccarthy-emc2-new-york

Here's the coat thanks to google images

Edited November 14, 2017 by enoughcats

[Jextella]

10 hours ago, film noire said:

Yes -  and too many men down through the years telling women to show their flesh -- a bikini under a burka being the one thing  that would satisfy every form of patriarchy.

I think she's missing the kind of tailored pieces that would flip that wild print/tropical sensibility into something high end -- a jacket, a white dress shirt, a Jackie O turtleneck,  a trench, a pea coat -- something surprising and structured framing the tropical vibe.

Spot on, Film Noire!

...a bikini under a burka would absolutely do the trick.  

I admit that I don't have the most healthy or even accurate view of men sometimes, so take with a grain of salt, but there is a big part of me that thinks many men (not all!) prefer the company of other men to that of women.   If it weren't for procreation and sex in general (for those who prefer heterosexual sex), they'd get rid of women in a heartbeat.  

Edited November 14, 2017 by Jextella

[backgroundnoise]

14 hours ago, enoughcats said:

I thought I heard comments to the effect that that was the only dress Kenya had that would fit that model and she HAD to use that model. 

If Kenya designed that dress with that muse model in mind, then she created the most unflattering look imaginable.  That neckline, ugh, made her look broad with droopy boobs, and her hips looked huge.  It doesn't help that I hate, hate, hate that peplum flare at the bottom of a skirt.

I also really don't like long, sleeveless vesty things like on her other model.  It looked like a beach coverup, and the outfit underneath was a big nothing. 

Can you tell I didn't like Kenya's collection at all?  It all looked dowdy.

Loved, loved, loved Ayana's silver/grey outfit with the jacket.  It looked like something Kentaro would design rather than Ayana, though.

[BlackberryJam]

Looking over things, I think Ayana is a shoo-in to win. She has the growth story they love so much on the show, her garments can be edited for easy mass production and they will definitely appeal to a JCP customer. She really has come a long way.

[Eulipian 5k]

Given that many men take the absolute right to cat call any woman on they see on the street, some women take refuge in modest wear, not as an order from religious hypocrites, but they just don't want the hassle, every-time-they go-out. When women insist on and respond to better treatment , (as they are doing,) maayybe these these bast#rds will realize "She didn't get dressed to impress you, lecher!"

[slensam]

3 hours ago, Jextella said:

Spot on, Film Noire!

...a bikini under a burka would absolutely do the trick.  

I admit that I don't have the most healthy or even accurate view of men sometimes, so take with a grain of salt, but there is a big part of me that thinks men often prefer the company of other men to that of women.   If it weren't for procreation and sex in general (for those who prefer heterosexual sex), they'd get rid of women in a heartbeat.  

Okay, I'm a heterosexual guy and I'd rather be with women. Men are real assholes these days. Maybe they always were.

[Jextella]

1 hour ago, slensam said:

Okay, I'm a heterosexual guy and I'd rather be with women. Men are real assholes these days. Maybe they always were.

Sweet!  Well, as noted, my view on men isn't the greatest - and probably not so accurate as a result.   

[Spunkygal]

I guess modest fashion is a thing. Roger Federer's wife wore a modest "little house on the prairie" dress today, complete with floral print, high neck and ruffle.

 

[chitowngirl]

Wasn't  Ayana all over the lingerie challenge and everyone was surprised and she told them that the modesty clothing was for in public-lounging around clothing in private was very different.

[morakot]

29 minutes ago, chitowngirl said:

Wasn't  Ayana all over the lingerie challenge and everyone was surprised and she told them that the modesty clothing was for in public-lounging around clothing in private was very different.

Yes, she was. At home, in private, with other women or male family members, you can be more casually (or less modestly) dressed.

[film noire]

6 hours ago, morakot said:

Yes, she was. At home, in private, with other women or male family members, you can be more casually (or less modestly) dressed.

Same thing with Jewish Orthodox women - Halakah law doensn't mention/forbid lingerie - and sexy pictures are also a thing:

"30-year-old mother-of-four Lea (who asked for her surname to be withheld) runs the New York picture studio Follie Boudoir, and she confirmed that bookings from Hasidic Jews (and ultra-religious Orthodox Jewish sect) now make up about 35 per cent of her commissions."

http://metro.co.uk/2015/10/07/orthodox-jewish-women-shed-their-modest-clothes-to-pose-for-sexy-boudoir-photoshoots-5426656/?ito=cbshare

I think there's a thriving market out there for Ayana's modesty line + a lingerie line sold to the same women.

Edited November 15, 2017 by film noire

[LennieBriscoe]

Spunkygal, It need not be termed anything,  however. I'm willing to bet Mrs.  Federer just said,  "What shall I wear today? Oh,  THIS looks nice for the weather today!"

chitowngirl, Then Ayana's remark proves that for her,  at least,  her style IS a cultural thing.  I doubt if the above-referenced Mrs. Federer lives that "Outside/Inside" cultural "modesty" duality daily. In fact,  I know it:

http://m.zimbio.com/pictures/Te10j99W4Wv/Roger+Federer+Mirka+Federer+Enjoy+Day+Beach

Edited November 15, 2017 by LennieBriscoe

[latetotheparty]

5 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

Spunkygal, It need not be termed anything,  however. I'm willing to bet Mrs.  Federer just said,  "What shall I wear today? Oh,  THIS looks nice for the weather today!"

I agree.  Unless they're in a "fashion capital" I think Europeans dress more traditionally than we do. If you've ever watched The Great British Sewing Bee you'll see lots of examples of that. Most of my British friends would wear a dress like that without a second thought and certainly not for modesty. 

[Spunkygal]

Well, it is a more modest fashion than I typically see and I will continue to refer to it as such (and I don't think referring to it as modest is an insult). I certainly have no problem with the outfit, although ruffles aren't my style. I was just pointing out the coincidence that here we are discussing Ayana's style and here is a famous woman wearing a dress similar to Ayana's designs. I never suggested that Mirka Federer wears only this type of fashion. I am well aware that she wears swim attire, bikinis, and other types of fashion. After all, Anna Wintour is a very close friend of theirs. Of course, Mirka just felt like wearing it that day and looked lovely in it. Please don't read more into my post than what was intended. 

Edited November 15, 2017 by Spunkygal

[BlackberryJam]

Don’t let me put words in your post, Spunkygal, but it seemed to me you were trying to say that it’s not just for religious reasons that a woman would wear a high neck, long sleeve dress. And that is a fantastic point. Women wear a range of clothing from what would fall under the term modest and what would not. People don’t have uniform wardrobes, no matter what PR would have you think. I remember Tim critiquing Laura’s collection during a home visit and asking if all of the clothes she had would be in the same woman’s closet and I thought, “Well, yes, of course they would.” His point was the collection wasn’t cohesive, but he was making the point in a poor way.

It’s not just non-celebrity women who wear a variety of clothing styles, it’s celebrities as well. If we line up everything Tilda Swinton  or Ruth Negga has been seen wearing this year alone, it wouldn’t look like a cohesive collection. It would look like a random collection of clothes in any woman’s closet.

Even Heidi goes from her sequined bathtowel dresses to skinny jeans and a sweater. I’ve even seen her in layers. 

So the fact that a woman on any given day wears a dress that could be described as modest doesn’t define her religiously, culturally or politically.

[Spunkygal]

24 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

Don’t let me put words in your post, Spunkygal, but it seemed to me you were trying to say that it’s not just for religious reasons that a woman would wear a high neck, long sleeve dress. And that is a fantastic point. Women wear a range of clothing from what would fall under the term modest and what would not. People don’t have uniform wardrobes, no matter what PR would have you think. I remember Tim critiquing Laura’s collection during a home visit and asking if all of the clothes she had would be in the same woman’s closet and I thought, “Well, yes, of course they would.” His point was the collection wasn’t cohesive, but he was making the point in a poor way.

It’s not just non-celebrity women who wear a variety of clothing styles, it’s celebrities as well. If we line up everything Tilda Swinton  or Ruth Negga has been seen wearing this year alone, it wouldn’t look like a cohesive collection. It would look like a random collection of clothes in any woman’s closet.

Even Heidi goes from her sequined bathtowel dresses to skinny jeans and a sweater. I’ve even seen her in layers. 

So the fact that a woman on any given day wears a dress that could be described as modest doesn’t define her religiously, culturally or politically.

Thank you, yes! Perfectly said. 

[Elizabette]

On 11/10/2017 at 11:20 AM, pinguina said:

Rereader 2 - The Pacific Ocean is on the WEST COAST.  It is between Asia and North America and is the largest ocean. 

 The Atlantic Ocean is East Coast.  That is what I was referring to.  The cover shows the PACIFIC OCEAN is on the East Coast (New York).  It's not - 

That is why I made the comment that I was pretty sure that the Hudson River is not in California.

You are thinking about it too much and missing the point.  ;) 

[Eulipian 5k]

On 11/10/2017 at 7:30 PM, Brookside said:

in keeping with what a pushing edge fashion show designer should be presenting in New York.  (Because that's suddenly the only place that matters.

"Although there are many notable fashion weeks around the world, only four are known as the "Big Four": Paris, Milan, London and New York". Quoted from a Google search. The show is based in NYC and the Prize includes showing at NYFW. So.....it matters to Heidi; sorry, Spokane, Miami, and Pittsburgh.

[Elizabette]

On 11/14/2017 at 2:55 AM, Sprockets said:

Interesting.  I've read that very orthodox Muslim women are huge buyers of sexy lingerie.  No one knows what's under there.  

My understanding of that those are for the bedroom. 

[Cindyluwho]

Just catching up with this episode before the finale. I am afraid Margarita is going to win this thing. Hope I'm wrong!

[Emmeline]

On 11/10/2017 at 0:37 PM, pinguina said:

 

I'm sorry I really don't get the praise for Brandon's looks.  They are practically the same as what he has done all season, with a small change here and there.  And of course - MORE CROP TOPS!  His clothes don't really flatter and just seem comfortable (despite the hooks, ties, tassels, loops, ribbons).  And what the heck was up with Lisiris (?) outfit?  It did not do her any favors.

Has Brandon ever made a garment with a more fitted top.  Do that many average women under 25 wear crop tops.  He almost has a junior clientele.  Why did Tim criticize Kenya about the nudes and pinks and not say a think to Brandon with that crazy flamingo print in numerous of his designs.  Ayana has done some wonderful designs over the course of the show but those 2 little house on the prairie dresses were beyond bad and it wasn’t because they covered a lot of skin.

Quote

I liked some of the things that Kentaro had - but to show that white one?  Bad choice. And what was up on how he styled his models?  I thought that they looked terrible.

Yes, the white dress was beyond bad.  Frankly I really didn’t like anything except Kentaro’s pleared peach gown.  The rest were blah!

Edited November 17, 2017 by Emmeline

[enoughcats]

19 hours ago, Emmeline said:

 Why did Tim criticize Kenya about the nudes and pinks and not say a think to Brandon with that crazy flamingo print in numerous of his designs.

By the time Tim visited Brandon, it was too late to change the base fabric of the collection.  So much time had been devoted to making the very heavy and unforgiving fabric look like what it was (IMO sun bleached BBQ grill covers) that asking or telling him that his fabric was a disaster simply would not have helped.  

The only thing I can think of that would be comparable would be in a cooking competition, tasting a dish that was beef with a heavily spiced clinging sauce and telling the cook that it should be sole or flounder with a hint of citrus.  

When you pass the point of no return, all you can do is wave Goodbye. 

[ratgirlagogo]

On 11/9/2017 at 11:08 PM, Nordly Beaumont said:

On 11/9/2017 at 10:42 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

Heidi very obviously got her lips done.  Check out her top lip.

I noticed that too - at least she still looks good!

Late to replying, but I really don't agree at all.  She was wearing a very light-colored wet shiny lip gloss which gave the appearance of bleeding over her natural lip line.  If you look at these pictures:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-5088713/Supermodel-Heidi-Klum-high-spirits.html

you can see her lips look the same as they always did.  Thanks to enoughcats who linked one of the pictures from this article in Heidi's thread.

[Special K]

On 11/12/2017 at 8:21 PM, Oldernowiser said:

Every time I see Brandon’s strap thingies flailing around I think of Isadora Duncan...that did NOT go well for her.

Every time I see them, I think of Orthodox men and their tzitis -- prayer shawls.  I can't believe, in NYC, none of the judges brought that up.  You see men with them hanging from their waists seriously every single day.

[rereader2]

On 11/22/2017 at 10:35 AM, Special K said:

Every time I see them, I think of Orthodox men and their tzitis -- prayer shawls.  I can't believe, in NYC, none of the judges brought that up.  You see men with them hanging from their waists seriously every single day.

Actually, most Orthodox men tuck in their tzitzit. And a prayer shawl is a tallit; tzitzit are the specially knotted strings on the corners of a tallit or a four-cornered undergarment known as a tallit katan.

I didn't take offense! But tzitzit don't look anything like straps:

 

Blue and white tzitzit knotted in the Sephardi style, the all white is Ashkenazi. Note the difference between the 7-8-11-13 scheme and uninterrupted windings (between the knots) on the Ashkenazi, vs. the 10-5-6-5 scheme and ridged winding on the Sfaradi tzitzit.

(From Wikimedia, CC BY-SA 3.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=583953)

Edited November 23, 2017 by rereader2