S03.E05: Return Of The Mack

[scarynikki12]

Quote

When Nate thinks he has found a pattern to the anachronisms, it leads the Legends to London in 1897 to hunt down a time-traveling vampire.

 

[scarynikki12]

Mick has been waiting his whole life to kill a vampire and he even carries a stake should the moment arise. OF COURSE HE DOES. And he calmly finished reading Dracula while all hell was breaking loose. Actual. Best. 

Nate remains the opposite. They had him go way overboard with the wacky. 

Rip got to say “the game’s afoot”, hee. 

If I can’t have Ray and Mick: BFF Hour then I’m happy to have Ray and Jax. They’re fun together. And Jax got to speak British! 

So Mallus is Voldemort? I can dig it. 

Zari hoping to save her family and dealing with the reality that she can’t was great. Her and Amaya are another good pairing.  I’m starting to think Zari may be a descendant? 

Evil Stein! Garber was clearly having a ball. 

Would have preferred to see Felicity but she had a bachelorette party to go to. Curtis got the job done so no big. 

Sara ordering the team to fall back from the chance to destroy Darhk has to be the hardest thing since she depowered the Spear. It was necessary in the moment and, like the Spear, is why she’s the captain. 

Sara (friend) broke up with Rip. That’ll keep Arthur away for a little while until Rip’s needed again. 

[Sakura12]

I do like how loyal the team is to Captain Lance. I hope we see that during the crossover. 

I did like the callback with the Rip and Sara pretending to be drunk to kick some ass plan. 

Rip betrayed the Legends again and his new team. That's why he's not a good leader. You can't be a lone wolf and be part of a team, even Mick knows that. Speaking of Mick and probably his bucket list wish of staking a vampire. I kind of wished they kept the Darkh's magic not working on people that were resurrected by the LP. I suppose they can go with the he was resurrected by Mallus so his powers are different. Although not working on Sara would've been more interesting for Darkh to have to deal with. 

I liked seeing Amaya and Zari bonding I just wish that she found out that the man that just came back to life is the man that killed Sara's sister. So she can see that she's not the only one that wishes she can change what happened to a sibling. Also Sara doesn't think her resurrection made her better? I wonder what she means by that. 

[Proteus]

I loved Legends tonight. I liked the fight scene with the music.

I understand why Sara did what she did to Rip. As much as I love him, he deserved it.

I liked the Zari/Amaya bonding.

I think I'm going to like Courtney Ford.

Damien being who they were resurrecting was a good twist. 

So was Sir Stein.

Loved Micks obsession with vampires.

Rip freezing the fight was awesome.

Edited November 8, 2017 by Proteus

[Lantern7]

Damien Dark: The turd that can never be flushed. Once again: I think he added the "h" to be extra pretentious. I would think he'd get as far way from Walter Bishop Mallus as he possibly could. The last epic teamup came with a third-rate villain from the future and a dandy with a bow. I will admit, "Return Of The Mack" does fit him, especially as he slaughters waves of Time Agents.

Looks like we got our dose of Sara after she didn't do much last week. She kicked ass and Rip to the curb. I like the idea of her and Damien as adversaries, because neither one stays dead for long. Okay, Sara only really died that one time (fucking Merlyn). Maybe two . . .  did her heart stop sometime last season? But she was presumed dead two other times, and those should count.

Nate wins the Goob-Off this week. I'm not annoyed with him, but I get how some people can get annoyed. In his defense, Victor Garber With Pencil Mustache did distract him for a few seconds, long enough to get drugged and rendered impotent.

At least the Firestorm Separation Side Story kept Ray busy this week. Also, Amaya and Zari bond, which is nice. I'm waiting for the inevitable Seventies episode, where they team with Sara to be faux Charlie's Angels. With Mick as Bosley, because why not? And of course he's always wanted to kill a vampire. He's a great contrast from Stein, who gets verklempt over the supernatural.

[KirkB]

45 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

Damien Dark: The turd that can never be flushed. Once again: I think he added the "h" to be extra pretentious.

I've been saying this all along. It's why I have refused to put the h in there since he showed up on Arrow.

I actually enjoyed the hell out of this episode, but I do have to wonder if the previous one wasn't a last minute addition or something, since this certainly looked and felt like a Halloween episode.

Nate still bugs me. I'm not sure they can do anything to change that but I can deal with it. Although he did have one line I really liked, and it was his telling Rip how they would do whatever Sara told them to do since she was the Captain. That line was actually funny.

Dark being the body in the coffin surprised me. I knew McDonough was coming back but I didn't know it was tonight. The thing is, I'm not entirely clear if this is Mallus in Dark's body with access to his memories or literally a resurrected Dark.

I did like how the gave Garber so much to do this episode, with him being sidelined so much this season. And this time it was Jax who was more sidelined. And I can fully understand Stein being on board with splitting up Firestorm. He always had Clarissa to go back to (weirdly, he was never written as missing her all that much) but now he has a whole family and wants to spend as much time with them as he can.

And Mick. If you had told me before this show started he would arguably become my favorite character in the entire Arrowverse I would have said you were crazy but damn is Purcell fun to watch. Plus I love the idea he has been carrying a stake around this entire time on the off chance he might run into a vampire, which in this world is certainly not outside the realm of possibility.

Edited November 8, 2017 by KirkB

[kdm07]

- Damien Darhk's theme song is Return of the Mack? I respect a man who knows his classics.

- Mick is a potential vampire hunter because...of course he is lol. He's been preparing for it for so long and his almost giddy excitement for finally getting to hunt a vampire was hilarious.

- Ray & Jax were good together. The little hangman riff had me chuckling.

- Sara is the captain for a reason Rip, you smug sob. She gets the final say but she always involves them in what she's planning to do and doesn't leave them hanging. You could learn a lot from her.

Edited November 8, 2017 by kdm07

[MarkHB]

1 hour ago, scarynikki12 said:

Rip got to say “the game’s afoot”, hee. 

He was all about the Sherlock Holmes in this episode, right from the start.

 

1 hour ago, scarynikki12 said:

So Mallus is Voldemort? I can dig it.

I have seen speculation, and that's all it is (i.e., not spoiled) that it's the Time Trapper.  That would kind of fit what we heard about Mallus tonight, but that's a far bigger fish than the Legends are used to catching (TT is more like "a major challenge for the entire Legion of Super Heroes").

[Sakura12]

I love how Sara's first option is always to destroy the ship. And Mick just calmly wants to finish reading Dracula.

Rip snapped her neck, so she was technically dead. I guess she had some brain activity and that's how Gideon was able to bring her back. Lots of people tried to kill Sara, she even tried killing herself with snake poison. Maybe that's why in the future they think she's a meta. 

Edited November 8, 2017 by Sakura12

[Maelstrom]

This was a hell of a lot of fun. So much to love: Mick Rory, vampire hunter; the return of Arthur Darvill and Rip; Amaya having scenes with someone other than Nate; Evil Stein; and Sara doing what she does best, namely being a badass.

I definitely agree that this one feels more like a Halloween episode than last week's - I figure it comes down to network scheduling issues that this one aired in November.

Rip is still basically a bastard but AD brings so much to the character that I’m always happy to see him. I do heart Arthur Darvill so. And IMO he and Sara have such dynamite chemistry that is so compelling to watch. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not advocating a romance - I personally don’t want any of the Legends hooking up romantically. But despite some very big differences, I’ve always found something very similar in Sara and Rip’s personalities, so whenever they interact it brings out some very interesting aspects in both characters. YMMV, of course.

OK, i’ve never watched Arrow but even I know it’s a bad idea to let Damien Dark get resurrected. Rip, my man, you royally forked up tonight. At least Neal McDonough is having fun, and I cracked up when he interrupted his own big moment to ask what happened to his watch. Lol

Curious to see where they go with Amaya and Zari’s amulets, and what their connection is.

Nate had one good moment tonight, standing up for Sara as their captain. Other than that, I wish the not-vampires had kept him. Is it too late to send him back there?

Next week with the Firestorm switcheroo looks like fun. This show is making Tuesday my favorite night of the week!

[johntfs]

I love Damien getting annoyed about his missing watch before killing the fuck out the Time Agents.  I also like that this episode did the team member gets used by the villains without making Zari come off as stupid.  She was dealing with smart, vicious people who exploited her grief and guilt to get the Totem (though we have established that it is her totem).  Love Zari's not-prayer ("Mecca's back thataway") and Mick wanting to finish Dracula.  Also, do not ever, ever, ever fuck with Sara Lance unless she actually wants you to do so in the physical sense.  Otherwise, she will fuck back and it will hurt bad. 

It was interesting how hurt Ava was.  She also didn't seem too bothered by the Legends being back in what passes for the TB's good graces, even if she still calls them idiots.  Maybe she and Sara can bond over what an asshole Rip can be.  Also, Blechdel test passed.  We had Amaya and Zari having in-depth conversations that had nothing at all to do with male love interests.

15 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I liked seeing Amaya and Zari bonding I just wish that she found out that the man that just came back to life is the man that killed Sara's sister. So she can see that she's not the only one that wishes she can change what happened to a sibling. Also Sara doesn't think her resurrection made her better? I wonder what she means by that. 

Figure one of the first questions Zari is going to ask next week or between episodes is "Who the fuck was that guy that was killing the shit out of everybody after he came back from the fucking dead?!"  Presumably she'll get the lowdown on the Dastardly Deeds of Damien Darkh at that point.  Which will be nice for people just tuning into LoT this season who had that same question.

When Sara first came back to life she was in the grip of a murderous, homicidal rage and lust to kill.  Laurel had to lock her up but she still got out and killed some people.  Eventually occultist John Constantine came to town and help her shed that.  Mostly.  Through some of the first season of LoT she still had a tendency to go for the kill because of her bloodlust.  Ultimate when she was stuck in the 50s, she sought out and re(pre?) joined the League of Assassins, quickly finding favor with Ra's al Ghul.  Ra's clued her in to certain herbal treatments that could bring the bloodlust under Sara's full control.

So yeah, resurrection wasn't exactly all sunshine and puppies for Sara.

Edited November 8, 2017 by johntfs

[kismet]

4 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

Mick has been waiting his whole life to kill a vampire and he even carries a stake should the moment arise. OF COURSE HE DOES. And he calmly finished reading Dracula while all hell was breaking loose. Actual. Best. 

Nate remains the opposite. They had him go way overboard with the wacky. 

Rip got to say “the game’s afoot”, hee. 

If I can’t have Ray and Mick: BFF Hour then I’m happy to have Ray and Jax. They’re fun together. And Jax got to speak British! 

So Mallus is Voldemort? I can dig it. 

Zari hoping to save her family and dealing with the reality that she can’t was great. Her and Amaya are another good pairing.  I’m starting to think Zari may be a descendant? 

Evil Stein! Garber was clearly having a ball. 

Would have preferred to see Felicity but she had a bachelorette party to go to. Curtis got the job done so no big. 

Sara ordering the team to fall back from the chance to destroy Darhk has to be the hardest thing since she depowered the Spear. It was necessary in the moment and, like the Spear, is why she’s the captain. 

Sara (friend) broke up with Rip. That’ll keep Arthur away for a little while until Rip’s needed again. 

Seriously... this was just about everything I was thinking about the episode!!  It's like a major Ditto from me :)

[tarotx]

I love this show. Damian was having so much fun and even though I hate the bastard, I was loling. His daughter(??) Seems to be right up her dad's evil dead Thing but she's not as cheesy. She's a bit like her mom I guess.

I love Sara as usual. And Rip Too (although I didn't like him this episode). I also love how each of their arc feels like them. How Ray's last week felt like him. They are different characters and LOT works both well.

I like that Amaya & Zari bonded some more. I find the amulets being connected something with potential.

I Liked the tiny bonding moment between Sara and Zari. I hope we will get some scenes wuth all all the Waverider ladies.

I really love Mick. I was one who Was mad that we got him instead of Snart's Sister. But I've adored him since the pilot. Him loving Vampires was fun. 

I love the the team is a real team - and really family. They support each other. 

When Ray found the watch fingerprint was Oliver's, Damian Didn't even cross my mind. Oops 

I wonder if Sara's resurrection will play a part? So far we have two resurrected villains. 

Edited November 8, 2017 by tarotx

[kismet]

That episode was serious fun!! I prefer more fun & candy type Halloween with nostalgia overload - so last week's episode felt far more like my Halloween. This episode felt like a homage to Sherlock and Victorian Vampire lore, so while I see some Halloween reference because of the presence of the occult it was not a Halloween episode for me.

Couldn't the potion Ray gave Jax allowed him to keep his British accent permanently? I loved that he finally got to talk in his native accent.

And while I know that Mollus is not Voldemort, I was getting serious Voldemort vibes from how they talked about him this episode. He-who-must-not-be-named certainly had some heavy HP overtones. Add to that the return of magic to Flarrowverse and really I was surprised we didn't see a boy in glasses being called on to save the day :)

All in all it was an awesome episode. I'm glad that Zari & Amaya are able to pass the Bechdel test. It's nice to have one show in the Flarrowverse where females are allowed to talk about more than just their love lives. Glad that Sara is the Captain and being shown as a fabulous leader. Making good plans and doing the right thing by turning Rip in. It's a shame he betrayed them, but like Mick I was not surprised by it.

Courtney Ford seems to be a good addition to the show. I'm glad she was not introduced with BR especially since she is a bad guy, now I don't have to be reminded in every scene that they are married in real life.

Lastly, while I felt no narrative need for DD to ever return to the Flarrowverse - I can safely say I really loved his reentry. The return of the mack action scene was everything that makes this show amazeballs!! I mean he just slayed that scene. 

Edited November 8, 2017 by kismet
typo

[TDT]

40 minutes ago, johntfs said:

When Sara first came back to life she was in the grip of a murderous, homicidal rage and lust to kill.  Laurel had to lock her up but she still got out and killed some people.  Eventually occultist John Constantine came to town and help her shed that. 

Speaking of Constantine,Matt Ryan is supposed to make a return appearance at some point this season..

Also,Walter Bishop sighting! lol

[Starfish35]

47 minutes ago, johntfs said:

When Sara first came back to life she was in the grip of a murderous, homicidal rage and lust to kill.  Laurel had to lock her up but she still got out and killed some people.  Eventually occultist John Constantine came to town and help her shed that. 

It was a tad bit more complicated than that, if I'm remembering correctly.  Laurel called in favors and used the Lazarus Pit to bring Sara back to life; only it's not supposed to be used on people who've been dead as long as Sara was (over a year).  So she basically came back without her soul, and was just a zombie killing machine.  Constantine performed a ritual to reunite her soul with her body.  It will be interesting to see if any if that gets revisited later this season 

Spoiler

when Constantine visits.

 

This one hurt.  I wasn't expecting that.  It was all fun, and then, ouch.  But I can't say it was OOC for Rip - this is who he has been, from Day 1.   Sara totally made the right call, but oh that hurt, because I'd been so much enjoying having him back with the team and his partnership with Sara.  :(

I'm loving what they're doing with Sara this season.  She has come into her own and she is owning this.   Also love what they're doing with Zari and Amaya - I'm looking forward to seeing where that goes.  

Loved Mick as the obsessed vampire hunter, and even Nate didn't bothering me too much.  Light on Ray, but last week was Ray-heavy so that's to be expected.  And I'm glad Stein's getting more to do after being on the sidelines for the last couple of episodes, even though they're still obviously building toward his departure.

[thuganomics85]

Of course Mallus is voiced by John Noble.  Should have known he would eventually show up in the Flarrowverse, even if we never see his face!

Rip is back!  And.... wow, did he already fuck things up.  I totally get that this Mallus guy is scary and is a major concern, but to even risk Damien Darhk being resurrected is just a bad idea, and now not only is he back and accompanied by some kind of witch played by Courtney Ford, he already took out a bunch of Time Agents without blinking an eye.  Not good, Rip!  Don't blame Sara for turning him in, although I suspect this won't be the last of him.  Despite all the issues, I really do enjoy the Sara/Rip scenes, and how interactions between Caity Lotz and Arthur Darvill.

While it will no doubt suck for the Legends, I'm totally down with Damien coming back.  Neal McDonough's smirk and glee whenever Damien does something dastardly, is becoming one of my new favorite things.

So, looks like they're going full steam ahead with finding a way to break Firestorm, since Stein wants to be with his grandson/Victor Garber is ready to leave.  I'm sure the trio of Stein, Jax, and Ray will be able to find some way, but I'm sure plenty of mishaps will happen as well!

Enjoyed the Amaya/Zari scenes and I hope they continue to build on their friendship.

Too bad that there weren't any actual vampires for Mick to stab this go around, but at least he was able to finish Dracula!  Yay, Mick! 

[Starfish35]

10 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

now not only is he back and accompanied by some kind of witch played by Courtney Ford,

Arrow fans probably already have a good idea who she is, but just in case, (behind spoiler tags for those who want to remain unspoiled about her identity)

Spoiler

Elnora Eleanor is Damien's daughter.  She was a child in season 4 of Arrow (around 10ish, I think), but it was unclear what happened to her after Damien was killed by Oliver Queen at the end of the season.  Clearly she's followed in her father's footsteps.

Edited November 8, 2017 by Starfish35
Corrected name

[cambridgeguy]

The next time they kill Darkh they'll have to burn the body and scatter the ashes.

The Legends couldn't have been too concerned about getting to the resurrection because everyone had time to change clothes, Ray wasn't there, and we didn't see Firestorm.

[dippydee]

The show has found such a great rhythm with its characters and how they interact with each other that I never care how ridiculous the plots are or the fact that they brought Darkh back yet again (though to be fair he’s definitely one of the better Arrowverse villains).

Hi Rip! Bye Rip! I hope he’s not gone for too long because I love Arthur Darvill and his chemistry with the crew especially Sara, and especially when he’s being an unreliable jerk. I also love that there’s really no doubt now that Sara’s the captain and just how loyal the others are to her. We already knew about Mick’s loyalty (he calls her boss!) but Nate supporting her too was nice to see. 

8 hours ago, KirkB said:

Plus I love the idea he has been carrying a stake around this entire time on the off chance he might run into a vampire, which in this world is certainly not outside the realm of possibility.

Mick having the stake handy and him reading Dracula as they were on their way to the fight were two of my favourite little moments in the episode. 

Zari and Amaya has some nice moments together. I’m glad Zari’s here not only because I like her but also because it helps keep Amaya away from Nate which is such a bonus all round. 

Speaking of Nate, he remains annoying but I’ve figured out the only way I can tolerate him is if Ray’s with him. Somehow he’s less annoying around Ray.

[MarkHB]

@Starfish35: Thanks for that info (in the spoiler tag).  I had no idea.

[Princess Lucky]

Such a fun episode. This season is looking better and better every week (and next week looks even better!).

I loved seeing Rip again, even if he betrayed the team. His Sherlock Holmes bit was endearing. I hope he can keep recurring throughout the season, I don't mind his absence/the fact he's not a regular, but when he's there he really elevates the episodes, and his dynamic with Sara is too strong to be ignored. Also, I agree with the comments above, I liked seeing that Ava seemed personally hurt/upset by his actions, that was a small detail that gave us some insight into her. I love having antagonists which are, at least on some level, likeable.

Mick is the best. End of story.

They better not find a way to separate Firestorm, only to have Stein die, five minutes before they can enact it. His little grandkid needs him, and he needs to go back. But, in the meantime, I'm down for Evil Stein with a mustache and an accent. Victor Garber was fantastic.

5 hours ago, johntfs said:

Also, Blechdel test passed.  We had Amaya and Zari having an in-depth conversation that had nothing at all to do with male love interests.

My thoughts exactly. Even Sara and Zari had a similar moment (though they weren't alone in the scene). I do hope we see more of them together in the coming weeks. I agree that Sara should elaborate, especially now that Damien is back (although I think the show was trying to be subtle about it, that's why Sara didn't explain on the spot). It would strengthen the bond between them, and it would also help Zari feel a sense of loyalty, I think. That said, her bond with Amaya is a great avenue to explore. And it's a great excuse to have Amaya stay on the Waverider, instead of going back to 1942. I love that the writers have given Amaya this storyline, separating her from Nate and that CW love story. And I say that as someone who likes Nate, by the way, and Amaya with Nate. I just think Amaya needs to be more than that, and I'm glad we're seeing it this season.

Speaking on Nate, I like him and I am not ashamed to admit it. He's turning into the comic relief (which, I don't know how that's even possible, with both Ray and Mick there) and I don't mind that at all, because Nick Zano is hilarious. Plus, this week he was actually useful (he came up with the entire outliers theory) and his capture was justified (Evil Stein! It would have taken me a few moments to recover from that as well). I guess I appreciate the episodes that don't have him be a total failure. Also, when he held Ray's hand when nobody else would? Aw.

4 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

While it will no doubt suck for the Legends, I'm totally down with Damien coming back.  Neal McDonough's smirk and glee whenever Damien does something dastardly, is becoming one of my new favorite things.

YES. I credit Neal McDonough 100% with the fact I'm actually excited to have Damien back. He's such a good actor, he's found the perfect tone for this show (which is something other villains have struggled with), and he's always a hoot (the line about his watch killed me). I like that he's not *the* main villain though, there's a new (old) threat in the form of Mallus, so it won't just be a retread of Damien's past (I hope). Plus there's Courtney Ford, who was a lot of fun. I'm here for that storyline.

[benteen]

The episode was a lot of fun, especially when Damien showed up.  His killing scene was great fun.  Mick always carrying around a stake was great.  Nice to see Rip back with the group but he deserved it.  It's sad that he's betrayed everyone and can't get past his obsessions though. 

I have no idea why Rip didn't start shooting Damien when he was floating in the air.  He lets Damien wake up and disarm him without firing a shot.  Kind of like how all the "smart people" in Dracula films wait until night when he's at full power to go after him.

[DearEvette]

Oh man I love this show.

I love how absurd and fun it is.  I even got a huge chuckle out of Damien Dark (whom I normally hate a little less than Eobard Thawn).  He interrupts his villain monologue to ask 'Ok who stole my watch?"

Really enjoying the Amaya/Zari bonding.  Looking forward to seeing what the connection is between them.  Is Zari another descendant?  Another branch on the family tree?  The water witch from the premiere is connected to them both... so yeah, looking forward to them.

Meanwhile, Mick calmly reading Dracula (with glasses?) and having his own stake was the highlight.  Also I really approve his reading material.  Stoker's Dracula is a great book.  No movie adaptation has ever done it any justice.

And Yeah, I am not mad at Sarah for turning on Rip.  For all that everyone keeps calling the Legends idiots, Rip does his fair share of fucking up.

[Lady Calypso]

Man, I never expected myself to love the return of Damien Darhk. That was such a fun way to bring him back. I loved the killing scene, mostly because of the music. I even grew to like Courtney Ford's character, so that's a plus. 

I really love Rip's chemistry with the team, but especially Sara. I'm not sure why they continue to make him one of the worst and most hypocritical people ever, but I don't actively hate Rip, even when I know he's in the wrong and he's an idiot. Sara and Rip do work well off of each other, even when Rip's betraying their trust. That's kind of why I miss Rip on the team. He was a good foil for Sara, as she's kind of been relegated to the background for two seasons (compared to characters like Ray and Nate). She always gets excellent scenes with Rip, which is why I do miss him around. But Sara turning Rip in was completely justified. He went about his obsession over Mollus the wrong way, and he needed to be stopped. 

Mick's seriously great, but I need more from him that's not just comic relief. He has barely gotten anything to do this season. 

I liked the Stein/Jax storyline as well. I really hope they can separate the two safely. Let Stein go be with his family! 

Amaya/Zari scenes are also well done. I love that the totems are giving them both a storyline together. Usually, they'd force the female characters on shows like this to have scenes with just other males. It's nice to have two females share a storyline.

Nate's....well, Nate. He's really annoying still. I used to give him the benefit of the doubt. Now? I'd rather they brought back Rip and got rid of Nate.

[mccartygirl]

12 hours ago, KirkB said:

And Mick. If you had told me before this show started he would arguably become my favorite character in the entire Arrowverse I would have said you were crazy but damn is Purcell fun to watch. Plus I love the idea he has been carrying a stake around this entire time on the off chance he might run into a vampire, which in this world is certainly not outside the realm of possibility.

I loved him on Prison Break - he was my absolute favorite! I'm loving him in this so much. I found it so funny that he wanted to hunt vampires after playing one in Blade Trinity. He makes me LOL every episode. 

[Aeryn13]

I enjoyed this one. Really liking the Zari character, the writers are doing a good job fleshing out the character - she is both vulnerable and tough - and integrating her into the team.

Also enjoyed Rip in this episode though his trajectory is disappointing. Sara was right, he does go rogue from every organization he has ever been part of. Even the ones he himself created for his own purposes. I believe it`s because of his extreme tunnel vision. He flat-out refused to acknowledge the screw-up of the mission: Darkh resurrected, Malus still a big threat and many agents of his own Time Bureau dead. A good leader would have taken responsibility and used that time for some reflecting on his actions. 

But after his atrocious beahviour earlier in the Season, he did need to be humbled. And to be taken away by his own flunkies certainly fit the bill. 

Now we have a Darkh back with his full memories? They resurrected the Darkh that Oliver killed, yes? How does he have the memories that Sara erased then? 

Mick the Vampire Hunter was great. 

I liked Nate standing up for Sara but they still play the character too goofy. There is already Ray for that and, luckily they toned it down a bit. But twice the amount is not working.

Overall, a good one.    

[Sakura12]

While I liked that Nate stood up for Sara as Captain, I remembered that for Nate and Amaya, Rip was never their Captain. 

I think with Mallus (which I do agree with Nate sounds like they are talking about the shellfish) we have to go whatever he's using to bring people back from the dead doesn't follow the rules. Kuasa doesn't wear a totem like Amaya and Zari yet she still has her water bending powers and now Darkh is stronger and his erased memories are back. 

[tennisgurl]

I love this show so much, I want to start a serious relationship with it, marry it, and have its adorable spin off children. While I admit I wanted an actual vampire (me and Mick both) this was still a ton of fun, and I just love the chemistry between the characters, and how each setting they go to seems really unique and interesting. Also, the team actually did pretty well this week. The only reason things went really bad was because of Rip and his obsession issues. 

I am actually happy to see Damian Dark again, he is always a fun villain, and him being around in addiction to this Mallus guy will be a good time. "Who stole my watch?" Him kicking everyone's ass to the tune of a rocking classic is a great way to introduce him again, and the new witch lady with him is also pretty awesome. Looks like 

Spoiler

she is following in dads evil footsteps! What a family they are!

 

Mick is just awesome. He doesn't care that the ship is about to crash, he has a book to finish damn it! Really, lots of great moments there ( Ray trying to hold Micks hand, Jax and Stein making up and Jax crossing himself) plus Sara just just LOVES to almost crash the ship, doesn't she? Of course Mick has always wanted to kill vampires. Dont worry Mick, I`m sure you'll find one eventually. 

Jax and Ray are a fun combination, and Jax even got to use his British accent! I also am glad that Stein knows whats going in, and understands why Jax wants to split them up. I always love their bond, even when it can get weird for them. "I got laid one time, and Stein came up to me and said "well done Jefferson". Plus, Evil Stein was a blast. Glad they're letting Victor Garber have some fun before he heads out. 

I was thrilled to see Rip again (and with his better, longer hair!) even if he was back to his old, distrustful, obsessive ways. I love Rip, and I think he is basically a good person who means well, but he has such serious trust issues, and tends to get such tunnel vision when he starts obsessing about something, that him being on a team is SUPER hard. Sara was totally right to turn him in, she is the captain and a damn good one, and he screwed them over after asking for their help! That being said, I love Rip and Sara interacting, and they're relationship, even when they're fighting, is always fascinating. Alright, I still ship it. Damn it. Plus, it was great seeing Rip getting his Sherlock Holmes on throughout the episode. I actually wonder if that is the era he was actually from as a kid, before he was recruited by the Time Masters. 

Zari is a good addition to the team, and I enjoy both her snark about all the weird stuff they run into traveling on a time trip, and the more serious issues she has surrounding her lost family. The whole team is jelling together really well the last few episodes, I am really digging how the season is turning! 

[Starfish35]

30 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

They resurrected the Darkh that Oliver killed, yes? How does he have the memories that Sara erased then? 

I'm assuming the memories are just deeply suppressed, not actually erased.  And dying and being brought back to life removed the block on them.  I guess kind of like on The Vampire Diaries/Originals, where a vampire can change/block memories, but once the person dies and comes back to life as a vampire, they have all their memories back intact.  (Not that I'm accusing them of stealing from TVD, but I just assumed it was a similar concept I suppose.)

Edited November 8, 2017 by Starfish35

[johntfs]

22 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Kuasa doesn't wear a totem like Amaya and Zari

She didn't wear it around her neck, but I'm pretty sure she had one.  She showed it to Amaya when she said the bit about "killing you would be killing myself."  As for Darkh, I assume that whatever ritual they used for resurrection effectively resurrected everything - included Darkh's powers and memories.

Also, remember when Evil Stein introduced Madame Eleanor?  Damien Darkh's daughter was named Nora when she appeared as a child in the fourth season of Arrow.  Maybe "Madame Eleanor" is Darkh's daughter grown up in the future bringing her dead dad back in time to get resurrected (and probably also working for/with Mallus because of that).  I knew Oliver should have killed her when he had the chance.

Edited November 8, 2017 by johntfs

[Starfish35]

Did they say Eleanor?  That makes more sense - I heard Elnora for some reason.

[kismet]

I don't remember DD's daughter's name in Arrow, but I'm sure they are supposed to be the same. It's kind of a nice (not sure that is the correct adjective), but it's nice to see a child following in their parent's footsteps. It would also make sense that she would be obsessed with bringing her father back from the dead. I prefer that narrative, then an obsessed fan/follower trying to do it. While I usually do not support raising people from the dead, it's almost become a family tradition in the Flarrowverse for the good guys, it was only a matter of time before the bad guys got in on the action.

Edited November 8, 2017 by kismet

[kismet]

On criticism I do have for the casting of John Noble as the voice of Mallus. Hearing his voice really felt a little bit too much like I was watching an episode of Sleepy Hollow. Because I am almost certain that there was a villain in that show named Mallus and he was somehow connected to that one too. I totally get why they hired him. He is genre show phenom. But somehow, I really wish it didn't take me out of the show. I half expected Ichabod & Abby to come rushing into the room.

Maybe they need to just do a better job coming up with original bad guy names. From the moment, they mentioned Mallus it reminded me of other shows. I need LoT to be special, not just ripping off other shows. I don't mind their nostalgic rip-offs, but their main narratives should feel a little more unique.

[Sakura12]

I gave up on Sleepy Hollow long before the show got really bad. So I still remember John Noble as Walter/Alt Walter from Fringe. So I'm happy to hear that LoT got him to voice a character. 

[Lantern7]

3 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

Mick the Vampire Hunter was great.

Don't forget the reading glasses at the start. He might be ideal for PBS. "Hello, nerds. Welcome to another edition of Horror Theater. If you're wondering why I'm here, the other three geniuses hurt themselves patting themselves on the back. Haircut might get his arm chopped off, which I really want to see., Anyways, we're gonna cover 'Frankenstein' by Mary Shelley. Word of warning: I always refer to the monster as 'Frankenstein.' You got a problem with that, you can take it up with my fists and heat gun."

[kismet]

Well John Noble was in s2 & even the end of s1 , so I remember correctly - you must have bailed early from the series. I bailed after they killed Abby. That show was rocky, but its hybrid mythology/history heavy plot was strong. Probably one of the sole reasons I got invested in the show. It's when they deviated, that they faltered.

Either way, I went back and found the Sleepy Hollow reference. They had a major villain named Moloch, freed by JN's character. And alas John Noble being behind both Moloch & Mallus is perhaps a little too close for my liking. John Noble is cool and all but he needs to change his inflection if he is going to be basically saying the same word or so it seems with his accent.

Then again maybe Mollus will turn out to be Moluch. And I'm back wishing for some elaborate shellfish based villain. At least I could imagine the LoT steaming it to death. And some off color reference to a vat of drawn butter.

http://sleepyhollow.wikia.com/wiki/Moloch

[Sakura12]

I saw how bad it was getting, but I still think fondly of Walter Bishop on Fringe, that's the character I remember most and Mallus is nothing like Walter. Moloch is a God/Demon has been around mythology for awhile so I can't fault people for using him. Mallus is a bit different, of course they should've just called him Malice because that would be slightly scarier of a name. However there is speculation that he's actually the Time Trapper (a strange robed figure that no one knows it's real identity) which would be a real threat to our heroes. 

Edited November 9, 2017 by Sakura12

[Miss Dee]

Not much to say that hasn't already been said, but:

I genuinely love the take-no-prisoners zany /silly comedy approach this show takes - they do it better than any other network drama right now, I think - but I also love it when they dial it back a bit and get more serious without dropping all the lighthearted moments.

I really liked the different pairings this time. Ray and Jax have a buddy-buddy chemistry I didn't expect that's different from either bromantic Ray/Nate or odd-couplish Ray/Mick, and I hope to see more of it. I also got into Amaya and Zari; I thought they had loads of chemistry and expect fans are building an "Amari" ship as we speak, which will set sail before too long.

Oh Mick. Aside from looking totes adorbs in your reading glasses, I am 1) "shook", as the kids say, that you are not actually illiterate like I thought but are capable of reading novels written before the turn of the century - so what's this memory thing you have with verbal expression again? And 2), I'm highly indignant the show left us on a cliffhanger of whether or not you finished the last page. Need the important questions answered, writers!! I completely identified with him; I too have been known to ignore looming disaster because I'm trying to get the damn book read. Priorities.

I hope to get an actual Ray/Mick-focused plot at some point this season, but meanwhile I'm grateful for the little nuggets sprinkled in the last 3 episodes. Ray, buddy, I predict Mick will eventually either solicit or accept your overtures of (platonic) physical affection. That's the way it goes with male/male friendships of this nature. B.A. and Murdock; Riggs and Murtaugh... the emotionally-distant one crumbles and bridges the gap when faced with the depth of their regard, sooner or later.

ETA: You have no idea - NO IDEA - how much bullshit writing I would accept if it meant the Legends rescuing Abbie Mills from Pandora's Box and giving her a permanent place on the Waverider. NO IDEA. Abbie, if it sweetens the deal, they happen to know another time-displaced Englishman with an appreciation for kickass women who uses his arcane knowledge of history to accomplish his mission....

Edited November 8, 2017 by Miss Dee

[johntfs]

6 hours ago, kismet said:

Moloch & Mallus is perhaps a little too close for my liking.

You need to take any problems you have with Moloch up with the ancient Canaanites, who were the ones who worshiped him.

 

4 hours ago, Miss Dee said:

ETA: You have no idea - NO IDEA - how much bullshit writing I would accept if it meant the Legends rescuing Abbie Mills from Pandora's Box and giving her a permanent place on the Waverider. NO IDEA. Abbie, if it sweetens the deal, they happen to know another time-displaced Englishman with an appreciation for kickass women who uses his arcane knowledge of history to accomplish his mission....

I like Amaya well enough, but I'd be very much cool if Amaya and Nate left for 1942 and the Legends brought in Abbie Mills and another English dude, specifically John Constantine as played by Matt Ryan.  Now everybody go run off and cry your eyes out in pain as you realize this won't happen.

Edited November 9, 2017 by johntfs

[DearEvette]

9 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I think with Mallus (which I do agree with Nate sounds like they are talking about the shellfish)

Heh.  Them saying Mallus and everyone hearing 'Mollusk' reminds me of this season on Crazy Ex Girlfriend where Josh talks about going to Priest School but everyone keeps hearing 'Pre-school'.

[jhlipton]

19 hours ago, kismet said:

I mean he just slayed that scene. 

And all the Time Agents, too!

9 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

[Rip] tends to get such tunnel vision when he starts obsessing about something, that him being on a team is SUPER hard.

"Mollusk must be stopped -- at all costs!!!".  "Yeah, Rip, you said that about Victor Savage and look how well that turned out!"

4 hours ago, Miss Dee said:

You have no idea - NO IDEA - how much bullshit writing I would accept if it meant the Legends rescuing Abbie Mills from Pandora's Box and giving her a permanent place on the Waverider.

2 hours ago, johntfs said:

I like Amaya well enough, but I'd be very much cool if Amaya and Nate left for 1942 and the Legends brought in Abbie Mills and another English dude, specifically John Constantine as played by Matt Ryan.

Why can't there be two kick-ass black women on the show (there are so few shows with even one)?  Bring Abbie on board, but keep Amaya (and drop Nate).

[GHScorpiosRule]

Oh this was fun! And I loved how Mick was so pumped about getting to kill vampires!!!

And the end? Who shows up? Hair gone all white? Principal Kwan!!!!

@BkWurm1!!! Let’s see if he next shows up in Flash, Supergirl!??

He already showed up on Arrow in the pilot!

[MarkHB]

3 hours ago, johntfs said:

You need to take any problems you have with Moloch up with the ancient Canaanites, who were the ones who worshiped him.

This is DC, we can just take it up with Rorschach.

[darkestboy]

I loved that one. The use of a certain 90s song, Victorian London, the lure of not vampires, Mick's reading of Dracula, everything about this episode was a joy.

I have to admit that I'm wary about Damien coming back yet again, but the addition of Eleanor and Mallus making themselves more known does add a lot more to him being back again this time,

I liked seeing Rip back but he put people in danger, got his own agents killed and held back when he shouldn't have. Sara made the right call with him this episode to be honest.

Nate works better as mild comic relief/the one who needs saving than anything else. The growing friendship with Amaya and Zari is nice to see as well.

Loved seeing Stein's evil ancestor and the subplot with him, Jax and Ray was done well too. It has dawned on me that he will be gone soon and I'll miss the character.

Nice Curtis appearance as well, 9/10

[Sakura12]

20 hours ago, johntfs said:

She didn't wear it around her neck, but I'm pretty sure she had one.  She showed it to Amaya when she said the bit about "killing you would be killing myself."  

I thought that was her teleportation stone, since Madame Eleanor had a similar looking stone that she used to teleport her an Darkh. 

[Maelstrom]

On 11/8/2017 at 8:26 AM, Lady Calypso said:

I really love Rip's chemistry with the team, but especially Sara. I'm not sure why they continue to make him one of the worst and most hypocritical people ever, but I don't actively hate Rip, even when I know he's in the wrong and he's an idiot. Sara and Rip do work well off of each other, even when Rip's betraying their trust. That's kind of why I miss Rip on the team. He was a good foil for Sara, as she's kind of been relegated to the background for two seasons (compared to characters like Ray and Nate). She always gets excellent scenes with Rip, which is why I do miss him around.

23 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I was thrilled to see Rip again (and with his better, longer hair!) even if he was back to his old, distrustful, obsessive ways. I love Rip, and I think he is basically a good person who means well, but he has such serious trust issues, and tends to get such tunnel vision when he starts obsessing about something, that him being on a team is SUPER hard. Sara was totally right to turn him in, she is the captain and a damn good one, and he screwed them over after asking for their help! That being said, I love Rip and Sara interacting, and they're relationship, even when they're fighting, is always fascinating.

Totally agree about Rip and Sara. In a way the two of them have always struck me as the moral heart of the show. While neither one is exactly a paragon of moral virtue, somehow their deficiencies cover the other's blind spots, so the two of them are constantly challenging each other's perceptions of what is right, especially in regard to the greater good. And I definitely agree with Lady Calypso, many of Sara's best scenes in the series have been with Rip.

 

18 hours ago, Miss Dee said:

I genuinely love the take-no-prisoners zany /silly comedy approach this show takes - they do it better than any other network drama right now, I think - but I also love it when they dial it back a bit and get more serious without dropping all the lighthearted moments.

This. So much. Somehow, against all odds, this show has managed to find the balance between utter ridiculousness and a rather heartfelt look at friendship, teamwork, being a better person - what it means to be human. And this crazy balance is evidenced by the fact that I can pontificate on morality for a paragraph, like the one above, and also laugh about Martin and Jax comparing their favorite grapefruit flavors.

 

20 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Don't forget the reading glasses at the start. He might be ideal for PBS. "Hello, nerds. Welcome to another edition of Horror Theater. If you're wondering why I'm here, the other three geniuses hurt themselves patting themselves on the back. Haircut might get his arm chopped off, which I really want to see., Anyways, we're gonna cover 'Frankenstein' by Mary Shelley. Word of warning: I always refer to the monster as 'Frankenstein.' You got a problem with that, you can take it up with my fists and heat gun."

My life will now be incomplete if I don't get to actually watch this happen.

Edited November 9, 2017 by Maelstrom

[kismet]

19 hours ago, johntfs said:

You need to take any problems you have with Moloch up with the ancient Canaanites, who were the ones who worshiped him.

No I actually just need John Noble to do a better job on pronunciation and acting. Right now they are just way to similar because of him. And perhaps it will be better when the show does more to tell us about Mollus. Until then John Noble needs to do better.

 

Quote

I like Amaya well enough, but I'd be very much cool if Amaya and Nate left for 1942 and the Legends brought in Abbie Mills and another English dude, specifically John Constantine as played by Matt Ryan.  Now everybody go run off and cry your eyes out in pain as you realize this won't happen.

I'd rather have had Abbie Mills join the cast than John Noble. A kick-ass female would be fabulous addition to the show. John Noble is just a predictable voice addition.

[PhoneCop]

I'd be down for giving Nicole Beharie a new gig. If they cast her as XS, they could just recycle the effects they used for Thawne, the Flash crossover would be built in, and the character can make any number of snarky remarks about dealing with time-displaced teammates.

[jhlipton]

10 hours ago, Maelstrom said:

Martin and Jax comparing their favorite grapefruit flavors.

I'm with Martin's [wife/daughter] -- salt decreases the acidity of citrus fruit, and takes grapefruit to an acceptable level.