S07.E10: Charles (Manson) in Charge

[AmandaPanda]

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Episode description to come. 

[chillenout]

great episode except one little thing kept bugging me.   They forgot the swastika on Charlie’s forehead.  

[ShadowHunter]

That was a crazy episode. 

You know its funny Kai cried when he killed Winter and Ally didn't. I know she has to play along but I think she is going to the dark side even if she does not know it. Wish I liked her better but I don't and Sarah being the last person standing in almost every season is getting so old.

I enjoyed Evan as Charles Manson. He did well when he was playing him and Kai having the conversation.

Farewell Gary.

Nice to Frances, Billy again.

Props because we all thought the therapist was involved it was just Frances not Vincent.

Edited November 8, 2017 by ShadowHunter

[Pixel]

14 minutes ago, chillenout said:

great episode except one little thing kept bugging me.   They forgot the swastika on Charlie’s forehead.  

The swastika showed up at the end. 

At this point I’m not sure Ally isn’t a convert. 

[TattleTeeny]

I don't know what the fuck just happened, but my DVR acted like it recorded the whole episode even though a huge chunk was missing from the beginning.

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great episode except one little thing kept bugging me.   They forgot the swastika on Charlie’s forehead.  

Didn't he have just the X in this episode? It was an X first during his trial, and later a swastika.

Edited November 8, 2017 by TattleTeeny

[TobinAlbers]

A poetic final shot of Kai would be Ally and Hope tossing his body on top of Winter and Vincent and their parents, sprinkling a little lye on top and then closing and locking the door. 

I swear when Kai screamed about the night of a thousand Tates I initially though he was referring to S1 Tate and that we were getting 1000 psychos like him. Has this season connected with the Horrorverse at large yet?

Having Bebe be the mastermind to puppeteer Kai was a nice twist. Even better would've been if his anger management therapist had been Jessica Lange in a surprise appearance just for the teaser.

Lily Rabe has one ep left to make her appearance. Mayb as Kai's lawyer?

Beverly got her revenge against Winter.

Last year I fell hard for Roanoke only to have the finale fall flat. This year I'm tempering expectations. Still, this season hasn't been bad and Evan Peters stepped up his game and then some. 

[Anela]

Lily Rabe had a baby this Spring, so she might not be in it at all. 

Someone has listed her as Sharon Tate but that didn't look like her to me. 

[mamadrama]

I'm a little frustrated that we only have one more episode left. I feel like we spent most of the season setting something up and now it's going to be ended in a rush. Now that Ally has joined them, for instance, I could've stood for a few more episodes showing her descent into his world and madness. 

[HunterHunted]

30 minutes ago, Pixel said:

At this point I’m not sure Ally isn’t a convert. 

Ally's not a convert. She just wants the people who wronged her to suffer. It's not enough that they die, but that they die because of her machinations and that they suffer. It's the only reason she saved Kai from the therapist.

[Anela]

Do you think Ally is going hurt Speedwagon (or speed racer - can't remember which it is), or get him to help her? He looked so upset after Winter was killed.

Edited November 8, 2017 by Anela

[Bama]

Give Evan Peters all the awards.

I've always enjoyed him but he has KILLED it (heh) this season.

And the shaved head - rawr.

[ShadowHunter]

The scene with Kai and Winter in the bathroom was good. Creepy music and good subtle threats from Kai. I believe he believed he loved his sister.

Billie is not the strongest actress but she came a bit more to life in her scene with Evan.

[Jazzhands]

On 11/7/2017 at 11:35 PM, Anela said:

Lily Rabe had a baby this Spring, so she might not be in it at all. 

Someone has listed her as Sharon Tate but that didn't look like her to me. 

It’s listed on the IMDB page for this episode, but I agree — that didn’t look like her to me, either.  The actress did seem really familiar, but it didn’t look or sound like Lily Rabe to me.  

Update:  IMDB page has been changed and now lists Rachel Roberts as Sharon Tate in this episode. 

Edited November 10, 2017 by Jazzhands
Updating information

[vb68]

It says something that I found Kai more creepy than Charles Manson.  I know that was intentional, and I totally agree that Evan is owning this, but still.  Kai is so creepy. 

Even though she's more pro-active, I still find Ally rather pathetic.

Still waiting for Beverly to make her move.

I was also kinda waiting for the Mamas and Papas "Straight Shooter" to start playing  as I think Manson loved it, but Michelle Phillips understandably probably wouldn't be cool with that. 

[SWLinPHX]

5 hours ago, mamadrama said:

I'm a little frustrated that we only have one more episode left. I feel like we spent most of the season setting something up and now it's going to be ended in a rush.

That's pretty much per for he AHS series as a whole.  The endings never seemed planned or well thought out.

[RedMal]

I love how they hide Frances at first, like we didn't recognise her voice immediately.

Where did the plot point of cops looking for the ice cream truck suddenly appear? If I recall correctly, it has only been used when Ally's neighbors were killed and even then, the murders were deemed as murder-suicide. I don't know the complete timeline, but it sure does feel like a long, long time ago. Why is there now a sudden urge to get rid of it?

So next episode is the last one? For once I could've watched more of this show.

Edited November 8, 2017 by RedMal

[Spartan Girl]

Knew Ally was the mole. She's taking out all the pawns before eliminating Kai. I loved her ripping into Winter at the beginning.

I loved the twist about Bebe being a mastermind, but it's a shame that her plan not only blew up in her face and she got killed off so soon. Never trust a misogynist to carry out a feminist cult.

The Manson family sequence was horrific, especially with the Texas church massacre fresh in my mind.

[Chaos Theory]

Ally is playing for keeps now.

[luna1122]

I adore Evan and find him endlessly pretty, but the shaved head thing shaved off lots of cute points, for me. Hate a shaved head. The scene with he and Billie in the bathroom was pretty riveting, and yes, Billie came more alive there. And yes, I absolutely think the Night of a 1000 Tates was a call back to Evan's first season character (and still my fave).

No way was that Lily Rabe. Sarah made a scary-convincing Manson chick. Weirdly, Evan's Charlie, who I was looking very forward to, was my least fave cult leader impression/representation so far.

Ally is batshit.

Edited November 8, 2017 by luna1122

[darkestboy]

Good use of Charles Manson. Nice that we got to see some of the actors playing different roles as part of Manson's cult. Can we please get Sarah Paulson as a villain next season?

Ally is doing to Kai what was done to her earlier in the season and it's pretty glorious to be honest.

I didn't feel bad that Winter died or that Beverly is even broken. Both of them knew what they were doing when they helped Kai ascend to power. Same with Gary and he got his too.

Speedwagon being the mole was an interesting enough move, along with Bebe masterminding Kai's cult in the first place.

Just one more to go, 8/10

[Pixel]

9 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Ally's not a convert. She just wants the people who wronged her to suffer. It's not enough that they die, but that they die because of her machinations and that they suffer. It's the only reason she saved Kai from the therapist.

I hope you're right. I want to see these assholes get what's coming to them.

 

8 hours ago, Anela said:

Do you think Ally is going hurt Speedwagon (or speed racer - can't remember which it is), or get him to help her? He looked so upset after Winter was killed.

I think she's going to recruit him to help her.  I'm probably wrong.

 

5 hours ago, vb68 said:

Still waiting for Beverly to make her move.

 

I know Beverly was really pissed at Winter and that could have been enough motivation for her to turn Winter in to Kai, but I think she represents the true believer - one who won't turn from the cult leader no matter what happens to her.  Kind of like the 32% who still approve of Trump's performance. There's a cult base that won't be swayed no matter what logic or rationale you show them.

 

2 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Knew Ally was the mole. She's taking out all the pawns before eliminating Kai. I loved her ripping into Winter at the beginning.

I thought Speedwagon was the mole.  And clever Ally, convincing Kai that Winter's Fitbit was a bug!

Edited November 8, 2017 by Pixel

[Daisy head]

Evan Peters was amazing as Charles Manson. The voice, mannerisms & crazy eyes were spot on. I also loved Sarah, Leslie, Billie & Billy as the family members. Sarah sold the crazy as Susan Atkins, but the "squeal like a pig" line kind of took me out of the moment.  Wasn't that a quote from Deliverance circa 1972?  That being the case, it didn't seem to fit to me - I know, I'm being too picky, but that just took away from things, I thought.  Other than that - wow! Sarah jumping up & down as poor Jay Sebring was finished off seemed eerily real & Leslie with her spaced out grin was the perfect Patricia Krenwinkle.  I don't think I have ever seen Billy Eichner in anything other than comedy, so that was an interesting deviation.  He was almost unrecognizable as Tex Watson.  I would love to know who played Sharon Tate, as I agree with others that that definitely did not appear to be Lily Rabe.  No matter how many times I hear what happened that night, I am never desensitized as to how horrific it was.

[GoneGirl]

1 hour ago, Pixel said:

I thought Speedwagon was the mole.  And clever Ally, convincing Kai that Winter's Fitbit was a bug

Speedwagon was the mole, not Ally. Ally just wanted Kai to kill Winter so she used the Fitbit and the tape recorder in the ice cream truck to convince him. 

Also wondering what Ally will do with Speedwagon but I think she might kill him, he had a wire and she was speaking during the confrontation between Kai and Winter. She also had shot Bebe without even knowing who she was, and killed Ivy. Not so sure how her and Speedwagon will play out.

[AnimeMania]

When Bebe slapped Kai (very funny scene) she was in complete control of him. A woman's rage (Ally) stopped Bebe's plan from succeeding or did it kick start Bebe's plan into high gear?

Why did they break in and kill Chaz in the abortion clinic then leave the body outside the abortion clinic?

[Stringey]

Holy crap so Kai is not just a sociopath the guy is literally crazy with hallucinations. I liked how his reaction and cries after killing his sister sounded just like when he cried after talking to Beverly about what happened to his parents. I liked that they showed an emotional reaction and not just a cold face after killing winter. He is willing out of betrayal(or in this case what he believes is betrayal) to kill someone he even feels for even if it's painful. Or could it be the case that the tears were simply a reaction of thinking he was betrayed and not because he had killed her? I loved the Charles Manson. After they were donewith the Manson murder story i was concerned they deleted showing him as Manson because i thought we would see it at that time. Was pleasantly surprised that we saw him pop up as kais hallucination.

Hey did anyone laugh crazy when kai was sprayed in the face at the rally???? Ok that was urine right? It was his reaction that was so darn funny. The act of him being sprayed was not the funny part it was this evil cult leader squealing.

[Chaos Theory]

This season just keeps getting better and better.  The finale will have to be the worst written peice of television at this point for me not to think this season is not the best AHS has ever done.

Ally and Kai certainly are a pair.  If anything I would have liked at least another episode of Ally playing with Kai’s mind or af least Bebe recognizing her as the true female rage she should have tried to set.    Because damn that girl is going to burn the whole thing down.

i think my favorite scene was between Ally and Winter in the truck “What makes you think Kai killed Ivy?”  Or something like that. It was rather chilling.

My prediction is that Ally is going to be left standing and use Kai’s memory to start her very own cult but in a strange backwards way.  

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, GoneGirl said:

Speedwagon was the mole, not Ally. Ally just wanted Kai to kill Winter so she used the Fitbit and the tape recorder in the ice cream truck to convince him. 

Also wondering what Ally will do with Speedwagon but I think she might kill him, he had a wire and she was speaking during the confrontation between Kai and Winter. She also had shot Bebe without even knowing who she was, and killed Ivy. Not so sure how her and Speedwagon will play out.

I still think Ally's involved in some way.

[islandgal140]

7 hours ago, SWLinPHX said:

That's pretty much per for he AHS series as a whole.  The endings never seemed planned or well thought out.

This is true but in this season's defense, this is the 1st time I felt like AHS didn't lose the thread and start throwing every storyline concept at the screen halfway through.  The story has been pretty on theme and tightly written without too much extraneous BS. 

3 hours ago, darkestboy said:

Speedwagon being the mole was an interesting enough move, along with Bebe masterminding Kai's cult in the first place.

Just one more to go, 8/10

This also explains why he spared Bev's life, which made no sense to me at the time.  He was so in awe of her level of rage, which is in line with Bebe's plan. 

[LoneHaranguer]

3 hours ago, Pixel said:

I know Beverly was really pissed at Winter and that could have been enough motivation for her to turn Winter in to Kai, but I think she represents the true believer - one who won't turn from the cult leader no matter what happens to her.  Kind of like the 32% who still approve of Trump's performance. There's a cult base that won't be swayed no matter what logic or rationale you show them.

What rationale? Saying something like "he's crazy/unstable" is just an opinion, and Kai's been pretty good about keeping a lid on anything that might cause him to lose followers. All they've really got is proof that Kai is unforgiving and not somebody you want to betray.

1 hour ago, AnimeMania said:

Why did they break in and kill Chaz in the abortion clinic then leave the body outside the abortion clinic?

I think they were trying to frame anti-abortionists for his death, but if, as Kai suggested, he was sympathetic, it doesn't make sense for that group to kill him rather than somebody who worked there.

[iMonrey]

My interpretation was that Ally was working with Speedwagon. But, what she's attempting to accomplish here, I cannot fathom. I really don't get what's going on at this point.

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Billie is not the strongest actress but she came a bit more to life in her scene with Evan.

Honestly - if she shows up anywhere else playing another monotone, flat-affect character, I'm going to have to conclude she's just a lousy actress. She was no different as the Manson follower than she is as Winter, and she's no different as Winter than as Chanel #3 in Scream Queens. 

[HunterHunted]

7 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Honestly - if she shows up anywhere else playing another monotone, flat-affect character, I'm going to have to conclude she's just a lousy actress. She was no different as the Manson follower than she is as Winter, and she's no different as Winter than as Chanel #3 in Scream Queens. 

I was going to say "don't bother" because Billie was terrible on Scream Queens, but it seems you are already familiar with her limitations. Billie is quite terrible and we'll probably be subjected to her awfulness for quite awhile.

[JennyMominFL]

3 hours ago, Daisy head said:

Evan Peters was amazing as Charles Manson. The voice, mannerisms & crazy eyes were spot on. I also loved Sarah, Leslie, Billie & Billy as the family members. Sarah sold the crazy as Susan Atkins, but the "squeal like a pig" line kind of took me out of the moment.  Wasn't that a quote from Deliverance circa 1972?  That being the case, it didn't seem to fit to me - I know, I'm being too picky, but that just took away from things, I thought.  Other than that - wow! Sarah jumping up & down as poor Jay Sebring was finished off seemed eerily real & Leslie with her spaced out grin was the perfect Patricia Krenwinkle.  I don't think I have ever seen Billy Eichner in anything other than comedy, so that was an interesting deviation.  He was almost unrecognizable as Tex Watson.  I would love to know who played Sharon Tate, as I agree with others that that definitely did not appear to be Lily Rabe.  No matter how many times I hear what happened that night, I am never desensitized as to how horrific it was.

She didnt quite say squeal like a pig. It was something like squealing like little piggies... That's accurate as one of them did say something similar and they wrote death to pigs in a the LaBianca house and pigs  was written on the front door of the Tate house. They got the idea from the Beatles song Piggies. The y did a pretty good job of depicting the actual crime. A couple things I sort of wish they included Abigail saying "i'm Already dead" and Susan telling Sharon""Look, bitch, you might as well face it right now, you're going to die, and I don't feel a thing behind it." Those were the words I thought of when Susan Atkins asked for  compassionate release before she died. I really wish they had repeated those words back to her.

 

Yeah, I've spent way to much time studying this case and I've been to Cielo Drive

[Chaos Theory]

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

I still think Ally's involved in some way.

Ally is gaslighting Kai just like she had once been gaslighted.  “What noise.  I don’t hear a noise....oh look I found a bug.  I wonder how that got there.”   She is playing games like a master.   She is out for revenge over the people who hurt her.

[candall]

If they want me to watch this show, they need to light it well enough for me to see it.

[Stringey]

5 hours ago, Stringey said:

Holy crap so Kai is not just a sociopath the guy is literally crazy with hallucinations. I liked how his reaction and cries after killing his sister sounded just like when he cried after talking to Beverly about what happened to his parents. I liked that they showed an emotional reaction and not just a cold face after killing winter. He is willing out of betrayal(or in this case what he believes is betrayal) to kill someone he even feels for even if it's painful. Or could it be the case that the tears were simply a reaction of thinking he was betrayed and not because he had killed her? I loved the Charles Manson. After they were donewith the Manson murder story i was concerned they deleted showing him as Manson because i thought we would see it at that time. Was pleasantly surprised that we saw him pop up as kais hallucination.

Hey did anyone laugh crazy when kai was sprayed in the face at the rally???? Ok that was urine right? It was his reaction that was so darn funny. The act of him being sprayed was not the funny part it was this evil cult leader squealing.

So I watched that scene again and saw clearly it was mace. I had turned my head before and did not see what he was drenched with.

[Daisy head]

2 hours ago, JennyMominFL said:

She didnt quite say squeal like a pig. It was something like squealing like little piggies... That's accurate as one of them did say something similar and they wrote death to pigs in a the LaBianca house and pigs  was written on the front door of the Tate house. They got the idea from the Beatles song Piggies. The y did a pretty good job of depicting the actual crime. A couple things I sort of wish they included Abigail saying "i'm Already dead" and Susan telling Sharon""Look, bitch, you might as well face it right now, you're going to die, and I don't feel a thing behind it." Those were the words I thought of when Susan Atkins asked for  compassionate release before she died. I really wish they had repeated those words back to her.

 

Yeah, I've spent way to much time studying this case and I've been to Cielo Drive

I had never heard that they told their victims to squeal like little piggies.  I knew about the pig references, but Deliverance was the first I had ever heard of someone being told to squeal - and the awfulness of that movie is disturbing on another level...

I agree, I was surprised when Kai was quoting Abigail Folger's last words that he didn't include the "I'm already dead".  Chilling.  I would never have the nerve to go to Cielo Dr, even though I understand it is completely different now.

[jaync]

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And the shaved head - rawr.

 Yeah, it was a slight improvement over the greasy blue mop and man bun.

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Why did they break in and kill Chaz in the abortion clinic then leave the body outside the abortion clinic?

It seemed he was left outside so as to make it look as if he was just an innocent anti-abortion protester who was killed by evil pro-choicers. Not to mention, the public being able to see the slaughtered body would have more of an effect.

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I had never heard that they told their victims to squeal like little piggies.  

They may not have, but the "story" was being told by Kai, who isn't immune to fudging facts.

Bummer that there's only one episode left. Is ten or so episodes par for the course with this series? (If so, it's understandable, given Ryan Murphy seems to always have a gazillion projects going on.)

[Stringey]

So why did they kill Gary? Did they draw straws as to who was going to volunteer their dead body for their message.

[JennyMominFL]

4 hours ago, Daisy head said:

I had never heard that they told their victims to squeal like little piggies.  I knew about the pig references, but Deliverance was the first I had ever heard of someone being told to squeal - and the awfulness of that movie is disturbing on another level...

I agree, I was surprised when Kai was quoting Abigail Folger's last words that he didn't include the "I'm already dead".  Chilling.  I would never have the nerve to go to Cielo Dr, even though I understand it is completely different now.

I think you are right about the pig comment. I went back and rewatched and Susan said” squeal like in little pig” , while the others said “ Like little piggies”  I don’t think they actually said that at the scene but I think Susan described theme squealing like pigs in her jail confession . I’m going in memory right now because I’m on vacation and don’t have Helter Skelter with me

Edited November 9, 2017 by JennyMominFL

[Nutjob]

17 hours ago, Stringey said:

So why did they kill Gary? Did they draw straws as to who was going to volunteer their dead body for their message.

My guess is they considered Gary the weakest of the guys left, since Kai had all his muscle-bound dude-bros there to protect him.

 

My question is... why did Bebe ever think Kai wouldn't turn on her? What was in it for him if he stayed under her thumb? (Just like I don't believe all these seemingly intelligent people [minus Gary and the dude-bros] would ever fall for weirdo Kai and his nonsense to begin with.) Manson preyed on young people who had been abandoned and abused by their families, like most cult leaders in history. None of these people other than maybe Winter fits that profile. It just takes me out of the whole season, to be honest. Well, that, and Ally's sudden "recovery" and ability to outsmart everyone else when she was a complete basket case just weeks before. At least everyone isn't a complete political caricature anymore like when the season started, so that's progress?

Edited November 9, 2017 by Nutjob

[Chaos Theory]

1 hour ago, Stringey said:

So why did they kill Gary? Did they draw straws as to who was going to volunteer their dead body for their message.

Gary's turn to die?   He had a higher purpose?  Mostly just Kai being Kai.  

[DangerousMinds]

Not crazy about this season, but this episode title is the best ever!

[mamadrama]

15 hours ago, SWLinPHX said:

That's pretty much per for he AHS series as a whole.  The endings never seemed planned or well thought out.

Yep. I've felt that way in all of them. 

[Stringey]

Here is one of my fantasy ideas. When kai is in a vulnerable moment I want ally to look him straight in the face and tell him oh by the way you killed baby sis for nothing she was not the one trying to bring you down. 

[CrazyDog]

Cielo drive was hard to watch. Loved seeing Billy back though. I really, really hope he returns. 

This season, all in all, is one of the creepiest. Real life horror beats the supernatural any day. The reality of someone like Kai rising to power is absolutely terrifying. I was also glad to see that there was reaction to his actions. Up until now, the community seemed like it was in a bubble and it was nice to see an actual challenge to his armed dudebros, the internet suppression, etc. 

EP was spot on as Manson. 

And as disturbing as the episode was, I'm glad we're seeing Kai start to unravel. But I still don't feel any sympathy for broken Beverly. She's shown no remorse until the cult turned on her.

Ally is terrifying. Will she replace Kai or just take him down?

I did enjoy the humor of all the dudes in their PJs all excited for mass murderer storytime. LOL. 

Who really is Speedwagon?

Edited November 9, 2017 by CrazyDog

[MaggieG]

Here's a question: when the Manson family members went into the house, did they just wander through the house and noboby noticed or said anything like it was portrayed in the show? Susan saw Abigail reading in bed and waved at her and Abigail waved back and didn't say anything, didn't ask her who she was. I read Helter Skelter many years ago (still my favorite true crime book) and I can't remember if that was described. @JennyMominFL I'm kinda jealous that you went to Cielo dr lol

This was a great episode and I liked seeing Kai unravel a bit.

6 hours ago, CrazyDog said:

I did enjoy the humor of all the dudes in their PJs all excited for mass murderer storytime. LOL. 

 

This made me laugh too.

[Stringey]

2 hours ago, MaggieG said:

Here's a question: when the Manson family members went into the house, did they just wander through the house and noboby noticed or said anything like it was portrayed in the show? Susan saw Abigail reading in bed and waved at her and Abigail waved back and didn't say anything, didn't ask her who she was. I read Helter Skelter many years ago (still my favorite true crime book) and I can't remember if that was described. @JennyMominFL I'm kinda jealous that you went to Cielo dr lol

This was a great episode and I liked seeing Kai unravel a bit.

This made me laugh too.

This is what I have heard regarding that. I think there had been a party going on with people in and out of the house so this would make it easy for the killers. I think also some people were asleep or passed out drunk. When Abigail  waved to Sadie she assumed Sadie was one of the guests. When I first heard that story about waving I thought it was creepy. Abigail waving hi and then Sadie responding with a wave thinking oh yeah  you are so in for a surprise in a moment.

[LoneHaranguer]

17 hours ago, jaync said:

It seemed he was left outside so as to make it look as if he was just an innocent anti-abortion protester who was killed by evil pro-choicers.

Why would pro-choicers write an anti-abortion message in his blood?

[jaync]

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Why would pro-choicers write an anti-abortion message in his blood?

Oops...I missed the message, so never mind.

[kj4ever]

I love this show, but usually by the point I'm glad it's going to be over.  This season it feels like they could stretch it out a few more episodes, because I don't see how they possibly can tie this up in one episode.

Perhaps Ally will go upstairs, call the police, and say "I just found my wife and all these dead bodies at this dude's house" and be done with it.