S02.E09: Chapter Nine: The Gate

[MagnanimousRex]

On 10/27/2017 at 5:57 PM, jmonique said:

Literally just finished it. My biggest takeaway of the season right now is I was impressed by Noah Schnapp and glad he got a chance to demonstrate his skills in the second season, after being out for most of the action in the first season. 

That and I find the Eleven/Mike scenes way too intense for their age.

Don't worry, it's Indiana after all. 

On 10/27/2017 at 8:34 PM, SeanC said:

I sort of wonder how they're going to explain that to people, though I guess to the town at large they can just say she's an adoptee or something.

Like I said elsewhere.  It's Indiana, they're used to it.  

[Kel Varnsen]

I liked how Joyce sort of grew with respect to how she cares for Will. Early on she just wanted to protect him. But by the finale she came up with the heating plan and was ok standing by while he screamed in pain. It really seems like if they couldn't have fixed him she had gotten to the point where she would have told El to close the gate anyways.

Also wondering if the heat treatment just got the spy out of his system or does he still have his link to the Upside down. Because he had that for awhile before the spy got him. Or did closing the gate get rid of that too?

And speaking of Joyce i love how much affection she has for Eleven even though they only met for short time laat year.

[MagnanimousRex]

Hopefully my man here makes an appearance in season 3.

[wanderingstar]

They gotta give Will a break next season, right? I mean, that kid has been put through the wringer these past 2 seasons. He needs a breather.

[blueray]

32 minutes ago, Gillian Rosh said:

They gotta give Will a break next season, right? I mean, that kid has been put through the wringer these past 2 seasons. He needs a breather.

I hope so, the poor kid has had a rough two years. It would be cool if he could still see into the upside down, as he was doing this before he was taken over.

[ghoulina]

13 hours ago, Dovega said:

I liked Steve very much this season but I hate the idea that Nancy's value depends at all in wether she picks him or Jonathan. Both are good guys this season and she is a pretty good person too.

I didn't get that at all. I thought her conflict over relationships was just a PART of her story this season - same with the boys. She was also dealing with her guilt about Barb and feeling she owed her family something. She was the one with the idea to get word about the lab out there. She was part of the team that exorcised Will. I thought she was very important to the storyline and relationship stuff was just extra. 

[Kel Varnsen]

8 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

I didn't get that at all. I thought her conflict over relationships was just a PART of her story this season - same with the boys. She was also dealing with her guilt about Barb and feeling she owed her family something. She was the one with the idea to get word about the lab out there. She was part of the team that exorcised Will. I thought she was very important to the storyline and relationship stuff was just extra. 

She was the one who branded Possessed Will with a hot poker (wonder if he will have a permanent mark) and danced with Dustin.

1 hour ago, blueray said:

I hope so, the poor kid has had a rough two years. It would be cool if he could still see into the upside down, as he was doing this before he was taken over.

It would be cool if he gained the ability to see into the Upside Down, the kid deserves something to go his way. Although I guess that power would be a little redundant since El can already see into the upside down; although setting up a sensory deprivation chamber is kind of a pain in the ass. And I do wonder how will ended up being able to see into the upside down. Other people went in and didn't have that happen to them. Was it the thing he barfed up? I guess he was in there for like a week right, he must have eaten or drank something at some point.

[Bobcatkitten]

I don't really understand the purpose of bringing in Max as a new character. Having said that though I liked her. The brother thing was dumb though - should have been left out. 

I didn't know Sean Astin was added to the cast and I loved his character. He delivered on his earnest goodness and love for her and the boys. 

The scene where they were essentially torturing the thing out of Will was hard to watch - especially from a mother's perspective. To know you are hurting your son and still have to continue. 

The nostalgia of the show is awesome - remembering riding around the neighborhood like they do and being gone all day. Having said that and having grown up in the era I think them being gone for two nights should have set some alarm bells off at some point. 

[tennisgurl]

I swear, I could watch a whole spin off of Steve as the long suffering babysitter of the kids, complete with dish rag around his shoulder. Or at least webisodes. 

[UGAmp]

I loved it. Will is the MVP of the season in my book. And Steve the babysitter is something I didn’t know I needed in my life but I loved every minute of it and want more.

I was worried this show would suffer a sophomore slump (especially after the first season was such a success) but I have faith in the Duffer brothers continuing this story for two more seasons. 

[Boumtje-Boumtje 44]

I see a handful of people asking what point did Max serve. Well, in my opinion, one key contribution she provided the show was giving Lucas a subplot of his own separate from the other three boys in his group. Granted the subplot was more Max's story than it was his, but at least it allowed Lucas to have something going on in his world. And that was badly needed. Having two straight seasons in which the black kid got nothing to do whenever he wasn't hanging out with Mike, Dustin and Will would have been inexcusable.  Of course TPTB could still do better on that front but adding touches of his home life, introducing his family members and involving him with the new girl and having him form the strongest relationship with her was a step forward in the right direction.

 

Also introducing Max meant adding more gender diversity to the gang of youngsters.  Was too much like "It" with the one girl (Eleven) among the bunch.

[VCRTracking]

Romeo and Juliet can suck a dick. Mike and Eleven is the greatest love story between teenagers ever. It is more epic than most recent romances and 95 percent of it is in Finn and Millie's performances.

As other posts have noted it is intense for their age and I do worry how they're going to play it next season. A big part of why it's so affecting in season 1 was that it was sweet puppy love. It was so pure and innocent.  Next season the characters will be 14 and at that age things between boys and girls start to get not so innocent.

1 hour ago, Boumtje-Boumtje 44 said:

I see a handful of people asking what point did Max serve. Well, in my opinion, one key contribution she provided the show was giving Lucas a subplot of his own separate from the other three boys in his group. Granted the subplot was more Max's story than it was his, but at least it allowed Lucas to have something going on in his world. And that was badly needed. Having two straight seasons in which the black kid got nothing to do whenever he wasn't hanging out with Mike, Dustin and Will would have been inexcusable.  Of course TPTB could still do better on that front but adding touches of his home life, introducing his family members and involving him with the new girl and having him form the strongest relationship with her was a step forward in the right direction.

I like that Lucas didn't want to be Winston because he came late to the Ghostbusters but that's essentially what Max is to the group.

I hope Max and El become friends next season.

Edited November 2, 2017 by VCRTracking

[linared]

I loved it.  And I cried and cried at the end.  Dustin crying on the bleachers before Nancy came to rescue him, ahh.  And that little drawing of Bob as a superhero on the Breyers' fridge, it killed me. 

[KaleyFirefly]

I liked this season maybe just as much as the first one! I binge-watched the whole thing in about 2 days. 

My favorite characters were Steve, Hopper, Bob, Eleven, Will and Jonathan. Also the paranoid reporter guy was pretty funny, and Kali was interesting though I don't think we needed a whole episode with her yet -- maybe in season 3. I wish there had been more episodes -- I just love being in this world with these characters that are so lovable.

Sean Astin was a great addition this season; I have loved him ever since Lord of the Rings. He was in it only a short time but he was so sweet and brave that we really felt it when he died. That is both good writing and good acting.

I'm not sure what they were intending with the character of Max's step-brother. He looked like an 80s Rob Lowe but with worse hair, and seemed a one-note bully character. His story never really went anywhere. They should have left him out. Also, he and Jonathan definitely look too old to be high school students, so it wasn't very believable. (on the other hand, the actor who plays Steve is 25, but he does look like he can pass for a high school senior).

I loved Hopper and Eleven together and teared up at the end when she closes the gate and he hugs her and says "you did good, kid." I also laughed at El's expression when Hopper put on the music and started dancing.

I was surprised to find out that the Duffer brothers who wrote and created this show were not born until 1984. So they don't really remember the 80s like I do. But they get every detail right (except maybe the "KFC"). The clothes, hairstyles, decor, etc. are spot on, and I loved to hear some of those old songs again. 

I liked Mike though he did not have as much to do this season, and honestly "Finn Wolfhard" is the best name, it sounds like a Viking warrior or something.

I hate slugs and toads and could not look at the screen when Dart was on it. The shadow monster was seriously scary though, very creepy. I'm looking forward to seeing what they do with season 3.

[Clanstarling]

On 10/28/2017 at 9:26 AM, HollyG said:

Nancy asking him to dance & giving him the pep talk was a good move. It broke my heart seeing him sitting alone. 

You are not completely alone although I didn't completely dislike him. I hated his controlling nature, esp. with the TV. I'm sure it was to illustrate that he had no idea how to parent a teenage girl, let alone one with her superpowers. But it showed his growth at the end. But I agree it got a little bit creepy.

I understand his reasoning for isolating her for her own protection, but mostly I feel like they kept 11 locked up in the cabin for far too long. Meeting her mom was great, but she should have been interacting with the rest of the cast much earlier. 

The dance scene with Dustin gave me a flash back to the worst middle school dance of my life. Jeez, so many years apart and they still look the same.

On 10/29/2017 at 7:46 AM, Racj82 said:

I feel like this creepy thing either Hopper is a extreme overreaction. Has no one else had those knock down drag outs fights verbally with their parents as a kid? Had the thing they loved most as a kid taken away as punishment? That's literally all that happened there.

Hopper explained his feelings and they were quite obvious. He didn't want to lose his second daughter and he was at the point where the child starts just asking why instead of just following orders. She also has powers so it heightens the entire dynamic. 

I agree. To me Hop's actions (and reactions) were as fear based as Joyce's helicoptering. 

On 10/29/2017 at 9:09 AM, ghoulina said:

That was a HUGE mistake. But Dustin is often very smart. He seems to have the best knowledge of their game and is usually the first to figure out how it relates to what's going on - i.e. The Mind Flayer. I just think he has a weakness, like we all do. He has a soft heart, and I think he wanted something that was special just for him. Mike and Will have been BFF since they were young, making him and Lucas kind of the other pair. But now this girl comes along, and she seems to gravitate towards Lucas more than Dustin. I just think he liked feeling wanted, important, and special. But I don't see the character as stupid overall. 

And, in the end, his connection with Dart DID allow them to pass and make it out of the tunnels alive. 

Indeed. Dustin's my favorite - which is saying something, considering they're all pretty wonderful.

On 10/29/2017 at 9:13 AM, ihartcoffee said:

I haven't read all the posts but did anyone else notice that the game that Max was so good at was Dig Dug and that's what was happening to the fields in town.  In Dig Dug he digs tunnels and has to dodge ghosts.  Not sure if there is some hidden meaning.

I noticed it, and kept waiting for Max to have a solution based on her expertise.

On 10/29/2017 at 1:38 PM, EarlGreyTea said:

I bought Eggos for the first time in about 15 years. Whatever Three Musketeers and Eggos are paying for the exposure, it isn't enough. The show is a phenomenon. I wonder if anyone else turned them down a la M&Ms in E.T.

Not to mention, the reference to Reese's Pieces in an early episode - which got a huge bump in sales because M&Ms turned them down. 

On 10/31/2017 at 0:33 PM, tennisgurl said:

When they started playing Every Breath You Take in the gym, I was like "oh great, the creepiest love song ever to end the season", and then it switched to the Upside Down and the music started getting muffled, and it became SUPER creepy and scarily appropriate for the Mind Flayer watching the bizzaro gym and looking pissed. "Every bond you break every step you take I`ll be watching you..." brrrrrr. 

My husband (then my boyfriend) was the one who pointed out how creepy this song was (back in the early 80's). I'd never noticed the creep factor (he also schooled on Bob Seegar's "On Main Street") 

I loved this season. While I was anxious to have the gang back together, I liked the way they all got their moments to shine. 

I also like that Max, in her own way, could be as dangerous as El. Spiked bat between the legs, anyone?

[Dovega]

9 hours ago, ghoulina said:

I didn't get that at all. I thought her conflict over relationships was just a PART of her story this season - same with the boys. She was also dealing with her guilt about Barb and feeling she owed her family something. She was the one with the idea to get word about the lab out there. She was part of the team that exorcised Will. I thought she was very important to the storyline and relationship stuff was just extra. 

I don't think the show is portraying it that way but that's how it's been taken by some.

[VCRTracking]

On the Billy and Mrs Wheeler scene, I personally found it hilarious. Maybe it was just flashbacks to Desperate Housewives. We all knew looking at Mr Wheeler that was not a fulfilling marriage! I first knew Cara Buono as Faye on Mad Men so I know how hot she could be. She had been playing it down as Mike and Nancy's mom. So much so that I didn't recognize her in the early episodes last year. Now suddenly in this episode "Wow!"

[starri]

8 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

Not to mention, the reference to Reese's Pieces in an early episode - which got a huge bump in sales because M&Ms turned them down. 

I bought Three Musketeers as Halloween candy.  #NougatGoals.

[Jack Kerouac]

On 10/27/2017 at 8:57 PM, jmonique said:

Literally just finished it. My biggest takeaway of the season right now is I was impressed by Noah Schnapp and glad he got a chance to demonstrate his skills in the second season, after being out for most of the action in the first season. 

That and I find the Eleven/Mike scenes way too intense for their age.

It's interesting, because I understand where Eleven is coming from - she basically has zero experience with the feelings she is having, including trying to reign them in. When Mike and her reach high school, where reigning your feelings in is not exactly the order of the day, who knows what can happen?

[Dev F]

So the Duffer Brothers have mentioned in interviews that originally there was a supernatural storyline for the teenage characters that had to be cut for time. More and more I'm thinking that the Reddit speculation I mentioned earlier is right, and that it was originally part of the story for this season for Billy to be infected by Will's blood and become a more willing agent of the Mind Flayer.

The first reason it seems likely to me is that it would make Billy basically Henry Bowers from It, which seems like exactly the sort of reference the Duffers would draw from. But more than that, it seems very much in keeping with the major themes of the season, which was a lot about mirrored characters and posing the question of nature versus nurture. There's Eleven meeting Kali, who embodies the life she could've had if she'd never met her friends. There's Dart vs. the other demodogs, and the question of whether Dustin's affection can override his animal instincts . . .

And then there are two probably-gay kids named William, whose fathers want them to stop acting like "f*gs" and toughen up. One of them has the love and support of family and friends who encourage him to be himself -- and who by doing so ultimately save him from the shadow that's consuming him. The other one never had that kind of support, so he became a self-loathing bigot, which opens him up to unchecked corruption by the Mind Flayer.

Maybe I'm just connecting nonexistent dots, but that really seems plausible to me as the original plan for the season.

[Danny Franks]

Pretty good end to the season. Eleven is a little deus ex machina, but I guess there was no other way of closing that gate. Her power appears to have no clear limit yet, so it will be interesting to see just what she's capable of, as she matures. Most of the loose ends have been tied up, but we still know that the shadow monster is there, and it's even closer than it was. That final shot, of it looming over the school in the Upside Down, was seriously disconcerting. And as some have already mentioned, the use of Every Breath You Take was perfectly creepy. "Oh can't you see, you belong to me."

Hopper going all protective dad with Eleven was sweet. The stuff with the two of them in the car, being honest and teary, was a long time coming. For Hopper, who lost his child, and for Eleven who never had a real father. And now he is her dad, legally. I still don't like the name 'Jane' though. Doesn't suit her at all.

Jonathan really needs to toughen up a little. There he was, with two strong women who were resolute and determined, and he just alternated between crying and panicking. Come on, dude. You had more to you last season. I know it's in character, but he fades into the background so completely whenever he's not the focus of a scene that he might as well not even be there.

Steve the babysitter was great. Being responsible and keeping the kids safe, even standing up to dipshit Billy and getting his ass kicked. But what I really loved was his sheer panic when he woke up and realised he was in a car with four minors, and one of them was driving. His burgeoning mentorship of Dustin is a lot of fun, and I hope that continues in season 3. I liked him having the maturity to tell Nancy to go with Jonathan, and I liked that she did, and was there for the Byers family when they needed that help. He's obviously still hung up on Nancy, but accepts the words of Pat Benetar as truth: Love is a battlefield, and he lost. So get him a new girl next season.

I guess Billy will continue to be a threat in season 3, too. Sadly, because he's fucking ridiculous. A psychopath who would be found out so quickly, in a small town like Hawkins. There's no way Hopper will stand for his shit, once normal life resumes.

Loved the little character beats of Eleven noticing Dustin has teeth, and then being alarmed when he 'growled' at her. Also, her ignoring Max because of that earlier scene when she saw Max with Mike (although I do wish they'd had another scene together, to show that they might be friends one day).

I agree that the Mike/Eleven scenes very intense for their age, and my first thought at the end was, 'man, I hope they never break up. It's going to be messy'. But I can understand why they are. Kids going through the early stages of adolescence, of being attracted to each other, heightened even further by the life or death stakes and a year apart. At least they kept the kids' kisses to simple pecks on the lips. That felt age appropriate.

But their scene at the dance was lovely, as was Lucas and Max's. And Nancy's smile at Jonathan? Any guy would be delighted to get a smile like that. Poor Dustin, not being able to get a dance, but it was pretty cool of Nancy to step in and save him (though it made me realise just how tiny Natalia Dyer is. Some of those 13 year old girls must be taller than her). I thought his hair actually looked okay, as big, styled 80s hair goes. And he really isn't a bad looking kid. But man, the trauma of school dances at that age. Actually liking girls, but being too embarrassed to do anything about it.

Mike's line of "I don't either. Do you wanna figure it out?" was smooth as fuck.

I loved the news report where they said most residents of Hawkins thought it was "the kind of town where nothing ever happens". It just made me realise that, for nearly everyone who lives there, nothing weird happened at all. All that the Byers went through, all that the kids went through, yet most people are still Mr. and Mrs. Wheeler. Utterly oblivious. And long may that continue.

[Dev F]

3 hours ago, Dev F said:

The first reason it seems likely to me is that it would make Billy basically Henry Bowers from It, which seems like exactly the sort of reference the Duffers would draw from. But more than that, it seems very much in keeping with the major themes of the season, which was a lot about mirrored characters and posing the question of nature versus nurture. There's Eleven meeting Kali, who embodies the life she could've had if she'd never met her friends. There's Dart vs. the other demodogs, and the question of whether Dustin's affection can override his animal instincts . . .

Oh, and also Billy vs. Steve, obviously -- the assholish king jock vs. the guy who "went bitch" and lost the title by caring too much about other people. And Lucas and Dustin's rivalry for Max's affections, and the question of whether you win a girl's heart by pretending you don't care about her or by pursuing her in desperate earnest. It's also Joyce being torn between Hopper and Bob, the semi-bad boy who keeps his distance and is always running off mysteriously, and the nice guy who is smotheringly solicitous. And Hopper's mirrored relationships with his own daughter and with Eleven -- Sarah, the carefree one who loved outer space and was introduced in a bright picnic scene, and El, whom he keeps locked up in a decrepit old cabin for fear of losing her too.

Even setting aside the potential Billy/Will connection, this tracks pretty well throughout the season. Which is nice to see; my initial reaction to season 2 was that it was much more interesting than season 1 but a little flabbier, a little less carefully constructed, but the more I think about it the more I realize that it did have thematic threads that connected all the many different storylines.

Edited November 2, 2017 by Dev F

[Ravenya003]

Re: Mike/Eleven's relationship, I think it makes a lot of sense given what they've been through, and it helps that I personally think a thirteen year old is just as capable of falling in love as a twenty-eight or fifty-six year old. But I actually think where they stand now sets up some good storytelling possibilities for the next season: in the first, Eleven was Mike's secret and he was her sole caregiver. Here was this mysterious, powerful, vulnerable girl, and she relied on him utterly. Now the plan is for Eleven to be slowly integrated into a normal life, which means going to school, interacting with other people, etc. There's a chance Eleven will handle this better than Mike, as now he'll have to watch her establish friendships with other people, start to gain some independence, etc. He's a good kid at heart, so it's not like he's going to get crazy-jealous or anything, but there is conflict to be mined from the fact that she won't just be "his" anymore. 

Even this season I felt that his rage at Hopper wasn't just that he'd kept Eleven a secret, but that he'd taken over his job at taking care of her.  

[Danny Franks]

4 minutes ago, Ravenya003 said:

Re: Mike/Eleven's relationship, I think it makes a lot of sense given what they've been through, and it helps that I personally think a thirteen year old is just as capable of falling in love as a twenty-eight or fifty-six year old. But I actually think where they stand now sets up some good storytelling possibilities for the next season: in the first, Eleven was Mike's secret and he was her sole caregiver. Here was this mysterious, powerful, vulnerable girl, and she relied on him utterly. Now the plan is for Eleven to be slowly integrated into a normal life, which means going to school, interacting with other people, etc. There's a chance Eleven will handle this better than Mike, as now he'll have to watch her establish friendships with other people, start to gain some independence, etc. He's a good kid at heart, so it's not like he's going to get crazy-jealous or anything, but there is conflict to be mined from the fact that she won't just be "his" anymore. 

Even this season I felt that his rage at Hopper wasn't just that he'd kept Eleven a secret, but that he'd taken over his job at taking care of her.  

I  can definitely see Mike struggling with jealousy over Eleven interacting with other people, as she pursues a normal life. Whether it's Hopper as her primary carer, or some girl at school she befriends, or even worse, some boy. And we've already seen Eleven jealous of Mike smiling at Max. There are dark places that both characters could go, in terms of an obsessive relationship. But hopefully the writers don't take it too far, and have them recognise and deal with any darker, antagonistic feelings.

[ghoulina]

18 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

Indeed. Dustin's my favorite - which is saying something, considering they're all pretty wonderful.

They are! I swear, I change my mind on who's my favorite every 5 minutes. I really don't think I could pick one. 

[Clanstarling]

4 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

But man, the trauma of school dances at that age. Actually liking girls, but being too embarrassed to do anything about it.

It's no picnic on the other side either. 

[Kel Varnsen]

5 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

Pretty good end to the season. Eleven is a little deus ex machina, but I guess there was no other way of closing that gate. Her power appears to have no clear limit yet, so it will be interesting to see just what she's capable of, as she matures. Most of the loose ends have been tied up, but we still know that the shadow monster is there, and it's even closer than it was. That final shot, of it looming over the school in the Upside Down, was seriously disconcerting. And as some have already mentioned, the use of Every Breath You Take was perfectly creepy. "Oh can't you see, you belong to me."

Loved the little character beats of Eleven noticing Dustin has teeth, and then being alarmed when he 'growled' at her. Also, her ignoring Max because of that earlier scene when she saw Max with Mike (although I do wish they'd had another scene together, to show that they might be friends one day).

 

I am curious how Eleven's powers work, because last year she used them on a single Demigorgon and it launched her into the upside down. This yeat she used them to close the whole upside down gate and she didn't. So was it just practicing her powers that changed things.

Also agree that I hope Max and El become friends, since the more friends she has the better. Plus having a super powered friend will be some nice back up for Max if her brothet gives her shit.

3 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

I  can definitely see Mike struggling with jealousy over Eleven interacting with other people, as she pursues a normal life. Whether it's Hopper as her primary carer, or some girl at school she befriends, or even worse, some boy. And we've already seen Eleven jealous of Mike smiling at Max. There are dark places that both characters could go, in terms of an obsessive relationship. But hopefully the writers don't take it too far, and have them recognise and deal with any darker, antagonistic feelings.

i am curious how they will have El sort of join normal life though. The boys would be in grade 9 next season i guess. It is not like you can just start school in grade 9 after having no formal education can you? Also I hope they accelerate Hopper and Joyce next season since El could totally use another parental type figure. 

[Robert Lynch]

Noah Schnapp really was the breakout star this season. At first, I didn't think the 1st season was all that, but the 2nd season was great. The 80s references, Dragon's Lair, Ryder's acting much subdued, Dustin's one liner, David Habour's performance, and above all the atmospher. It was awesome and the music used in the series is spectacular. 

Noah's facial expressions are scarily good. Fear and sadness all rolled into one. He really sold this part of a tortured victim with a demon inside. I can't wait for Season 3.

[bettername2come]

I just wanted to comment on one little moment I haven't seen mentioned. When Eleven is hugging Dustin and Lucas, it's Lucas who says "we missed you" and she says "I missed you too." Just the fact that he was the one who was most reluctant to have her around last season and she threw him that one time and now, here they are hugging it out.

[mmecorday]

Quote

The whole Synchronicity album is quite dark, Gordon was a somber young man. (Stewart was the fun one, which is why they clashed.)

Why on earth did anyone think that including Andy Summers' "Mother" on the album was a good idea?

Did they ever explain what happened to the Byers' dog? Did he go the way of Tiger on "The Brady Bunch?"

Quote

Romeo and Juliet can suck a dick. Mike and Eleven is the greatest love story between teenagers ever. It is more epic than most recent romances and 95 percent of it is in Finn and Millie's performances.

I rewatched season 1 today and when Mike was talking to El about the Snow Ball, I started to tear up. Damn, that scene. Ninja onions everywhere in that one.

[MisterGlass]

3 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Also I hope they accelerate Hopper and Joyce next season since El could totally use another parental type figure. 

I don't think they have to accelerate things in order for Joyce to be involved in El's life.  Even if they do not become a couple, Hopper needs the advice of a parent, and a woman, and she is the only one he can trust with the full details.  Joyce will do anything she can to help out of friendship to Hopper and out of gratitude to El for helping to save her son twice over.  Hopper and Joyce have history and chemistry, and they probably will be more than friends in the future, but I think Joyce will be El's second parent before anything changes between the adults.

[VCRTracking]

Looking back at the Snow Ball scene, I asked myself "What were we thinking in the 80s?" I actually used to think girls with that hair looked hot!

[Danny Franks]

11 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

Looking back at the Snow Ball scene, I asked myself "What were we thinking in the 80s?" I actually used to think girls with that hair looked hot!

Well, my first crush was Andy from The Goonies, so I'm right there with you.

Edited November 3, 2017 by Danny Franks

[VCRTracking]

I really hope Steve actually wins a fight next season because now it's get's sad(I know Billy caught him offguard with the dish but it means Steve needs to be able to fight dirty too). I did love him waking up in the car and realizing one of the kids was driving and also him in his daze thinking Mike was Nancy. Mike's disgusted reaction was great.

Found lots of tweets saying Mrs Wheeler was ready to "risk it all" for Billy! Twitter is a great place to get caught up on current lingo.

Edited November 3, 2017 by VCRTracking

[Bcharmer]

I was thrown off by assuming there were 10 episodes, and had planned on watching Ep 9 last night, then finishing it tonight with Ep 10 - but it became pretty clear by the time jump that this was the season finale. Darn.  What I also wasn't expecting, though, was to get so emotional with those Snow Ball scenes... the first time I got emotional at all during this whole series. But Dustin, sitting alone and crying, did me in. I was a blubbering mess after that. Nancy, for the win. That was the sweetest.  I totally would have danced with him, too.  I also made the correlation between "Every Breath You Take" and Max calling Lucas "Stalker."   That song is a creepy one for a school dance, but with that final shot, it made sense. 

[Dev F]

24 minutes ago, Bcharmer said:

I also made the correlation between "Every Breath You Take" and Max calling Lucas "Stalker."

Yep. Folks have pointed out elsewhere that the camera is on Lucas for "I'll be watching you," on Nancy for "Every vow you break," and on Will for "Every smile you fake."

[Kel Varnsen]

5 hours ago, Dev F said:

Yep. Folks have pointed out elsewhere that the camera is on Lucas for "I'll be watching you," on Nancy for "Every vow you break," and on Will for "Every smile you fake."

I'll be watching you of course is also a big part of Eleven's powers.

 

20 hours ago, MisterGlass said:

I don't think they have to accelerate things in order for Joyce to be involved in El's life.  Even if they do not become a couple, Hopper needs the advice of a parent, and a woman, and she is the only one he can trust with the full details.  Joyce will do anything she can to help out of friendship to Hopper and out of gratitude to El for helping to save her son twice over.  Hopper and Joyce have history and chemistry, and they probably will be more than friends in the future, but I think Joyce will be El's second parent before anything changes between the adults.

Your right Joyce would totally take an interest in El and her growth. Like I said their relationship is great. One of my most memorable scenes in season 1 was when Joyce told El, just before she went in the pool that she didn't have to do it if she really wanted but she really appreciated it that she was going to. Especially since she just as easily could have been bitter about El finding the demigorgon in the first place,

[VCRTracking]

And........ now I'm dead.

[Cheezwiz]

On 11/3/2017 at 10:48 AM, Bcharmer said:

I was thrown off by assuming there were 10 episodes, and had planned on watching Ep 9 last night, then finishing it tonight with Ep 10 - but it became pretty clear by the time jump that this was the season finale. Darn.  What I also wasn't expecting, though, was to get so emotional with those Snow Ball scenes... the first time I got emotional at all during this whole series. But Dustin, sitting alone and crying, did me in. I was a blubbering mess after that. Nancy, for the win. That was the sweetest.  I totally would have danced with him, too.  I also made the correlation between "Every Breath You Take" and Max calling Lucas "Stalker."   That song is a creepy one for a school dance, but with that final shot, it made sense. 

Same thing happened to me - I genuinely thought there were 10 episodes to the series, and didn't realize that this was the finale until they got to the Snow Ball.

I was lukewarm on Season 1, but I thought Season 2 was a vast improvement. The issue I had with Season One, was that I was really only interested in the kids. I couldn't have cared less about the teenage love-triangles, and wished much less time was spent on them. I didn't find the supernatural elements all that frightening, and Winona's one-note shriek-a-thon drove me up the wall.

This season everything moved at a fast pace - characters were no longer segregated by age. The pairing of Steve and Dustin was an unexpected delight, and the creature/supernatural elements were much scarier. Winona's performance was much more modulated this time around, and I thought she paired nicely with Sean Astin ('sniff). We also saw Nancy (who irritated me to no end Season 1) get fleshed out more. Her drunk scene at the Halloween party was really well done. I also didn't mind Eleven's separation from the rest of the group for most of the episodes. Her character experienced some growth, and her reunion with her friends was all the more satisfying. Not to mention the hilarity mixed through all the episodes. There was humour in Season 1, but it was much more noticable this season.

Still not sure what the point of Billy was, but I did not mind the addition of Max as a character. I kind of hope they don't belabour the romantic pairings. Yes, attraction happens at that age, but I guess I kind of want them to remain adorable kids a bit longer.

I didn't expect to get so attached to Sean Astin's character - I thought they were just going to make him a stock bumbling dork (or possibly an evil plant). Instead we wound up being a courageous hero. The little superhero drawing of him on the fridge in the Byers' kitchen made me tear up - much the same way the games he left behind for the kids did last episode.

Man I hope poor Will gets a break from medical torment and exorcisms next season. Good grief, enough already!

There seems to be some polarization on Dustin's character, but I adore him! I think he might be my favourite. His HAIR this ep! LMAO! I'm was almost the exact age these kids were back in the eighties so I remember the awkwardness of those junior high dances. Felt bad when Dustin kept striking out, and was glad Nancy asked him to dance. I have to admit, I also felt just the teeniest tiniest twinge of sadness when we saw dead Dart splayed out next to a Three Muskateers candy wrapper.

Was also happy to see Dustin's Mom had acquired an adorable new kitten. 

I thought it was a very satisfying finale, but of course, trouble still lurks!

Edited November 4, 2017 by Cheezwiz
*got the candy wrong first go round!

[ruby24]

On 11/2/2017 at 0:42 PM, Danny Franks said:

I  can definitely see Mike struggling with jealousy over Eleven interacting with other people, as she pursues a normal life. Whether it's Hopper as her primary carer, or some girl at school she befriends, or even worse, some boy. And we've already seen Eleven jealous of Mike smiling at Max. There are dark places that both characters could go, in terms of an obsessive relationship. But hopefully the writers don't take it too far, and have them recognise and deal with any darker, antagonistic feelings.

This has a LOT of potential in my opinion, and mostly due to these two kids' performances. There was MAJOR chemistry between them, even more this season than last season, despite the lack of screentime they had together. I'm guessing the Duffer brothers can see what they've got there, since they waited all season to bring them back together, but now that they're going to be in high school next season, it's only natural that this already clearly intense relationship would evolve (maybe even dangerously, from a parent's point of view) into something more adult, and potentially very quickly. 

I actually remember a couple like that when I was in ninth grade- that kind of romantic obsession can happen to people at a young age, which isn't that healthy. Be interesting to see that explored, although maybe they want to keep it innocent. But I could see it happening pretty organically in terms of storytelling, as far as where these two characters are heading.

Edited November 4, 2017 by ruby24

[Ellaria]

On 10/30/2017 at 8:17 PM, EarlGreyTea said:

This season cemented the reason why the cast won the SAG award, even against more critically acclaimed shows. Cast chemistry is invaluable. I recently watched another Netflix original, Friends from College, and the cast is completely devoid of any kind of chemistry and as a result, the show doesn't work at all. The actors try too hard to sell it; you don't buy that those characters have been friends for 20 years. But not this show. You can completely buy that these kids are friends, even newbie Max. Even their arguments and squabbles are rooted in realism. It helps enormously that the kids are friends in real life.

Agree.  The cast is terrific...all of them. Their interactions feel authentic, especially those four boys. I can't help but smile when they are on screen together.

On 10/30/2017 at 10:39 PM, mmecorday said:

I cried the whole way through the dance scene at the end. That was so very authentic I could practically smell the Love's Baby Soft cologne.

I loved "Love's Baby Soft" back then. 

I am very happy with this season. These characters and their bonds with each other are the heart of the show. Demogorgons and evil scientists may be fun but, ultimately, I want the residents of Hawkins to thrive. (Except maybe Billy. Perhaps they can ship him back to CA next season.) I love the way these characters rely on each other to work thru loss, trauma, fear and disappointment. Much is made of MIke's connection to El but his bond with Will was equally moving. Steve has become an invaluable friend to Dustin. Hopper knew to seek out Joyce in the parking lot and comfort her. And Nancy recognizing Dustin's pain at the dance and stepping in was perfect. We should all have friends like this.

Edited November 4, 2017 by Ellaria Sand

[moonshine71]

On 11/1/2017 at 10:05 PM, KaleyFirefly said:

 But they get every detail right (except maybe the "KFC").

 

There was nothing wrong with calling it KFC, I was born in '71 and we referred to Kentucky Fried Chicken as such my whole life, long before the official switch. The bucket had the appropriate Kentucky Fried Chicken name and logo.

[Clanstarling]

9 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

And........ now I'm dead.

Oh man. That was way too subtle, and, yep, I'm dead too.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I have mixed feelings about the Mike/Eleven reunion and their "relationship." On the one hand, I'm like dude, you guys are like 12 so slow your roll! On the other hand, I remember how intense it was to have a crush at that age. When you add to that a year of separation/longing for the other person and the bond they have from the harrowing experiences they had together before their separation (Speed's wisdom about that notwithstanding), I get it. And realistically, their big reunion was one hug, Mike saying he talked to her every night, and then slow dancing and one kiss at the dance. When I was in middle school, going to a school dance with a boy you liked was the pinnacle of the fantasy.

I don't mind that Mike/Eleven and Lucas/Sadie like each other. That's part of adolescence so to me it's just as realistic as the 80s details. They aren't all girl crazy yet, but Lucas and Dustin liking the same girl was a good portrayal of middle school type stuff. I like that they are keeping the crushes and their interactions realistic. Even by the time the dance rolled around a month after Lucas and Max knew that they liked each other, he was still awkward about asking her to dance which I totally remember from that age.

My major quibble with the dance was the amount of decorations. I went to school in a nice middle class suburb and none of our dances had that many lights, streamers, decorations, etc. (not even our big eighth grade graduation dance). I know, I know, it's tv so we have to have that extra bit of bling.

I'm glad that Hopper and Eleven had that talk in the car before they went into the lab. Hopper isn't the perfect dad, but he has such good intentions and I love his relationship with Eleven. I totally loved that when Dr. Owens told him to keep Eleven out of sight for at least another year, Hopper immediately asked if she could go out for one night because he wanted to let her feel like a normal kid for a few hours. And hey, Dr. Owens turned out to be one of the good guys! Getting that birth certificate for them warmed my cold dead heart.

I kind of like that Billy wasn't Chekhov's brother. Sometimes a spade is just a spade. Even though he ended up having nothing to do with the Mind Flayer plot or the lab, his presence wasn't completely pointless. His character showed that even when you're trying to save the world, there are still assholes who annoy you and get in your way. His obvious dislike of Lucas provided a slight catalyst for Lucas and Max's relationship. I don't think Max is the totally immature kind of person who does something just because someone else doesn't want her to, and I think that her interest in Lucas was 99% based on him being Lucas. But I also think that Billy threatening Lucas made her feel protective of him which may have made her begin to like him sooner than she might have otherwise.

Billy's presence also humanized Steve further. Billy just strolled onto campus expecting to be the badass on campus and that's exactly what happened. At that point, Steve wasn't concerned with being more popular than Billy, but I think that Billy coming in when he did (as Steve's relationship with Nancy was crumbling) just served to make Steve feel like he was being kicked while he was down which made us sympathize with him even more.

Billy's best moment in the entire season was when he was oozing all over Mike and Nancy's mom. I was simultaneously laughing and cringing.

Steve's relationship with the kids this season was so great. Last season, his only real relationship on the show was with Nancy (and a little bit with his friends) until he grudgingly teamed up with Jonathan at the very end of S1 to take on the monster. It was nice to see him first bond with Dustin and then become the big brother/babysitter to the entire group of kids. Loved seeing how protective he was of them and how seriously he took his responsibility to keep them safe. But poor Steve - he went outside to try to get Billy to leave and then Max and the other kids betrayed his "Max isn't here" lie by peeking through the window. I would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for you darn kids!

I loved seeing Dustin's mini-Steve hair at the dance! And I loved seeing that Steve is still playing big brother to Dustin by driving him to the dance. So sweet!

On a shallow note, the show did a great job with the hairstyling of the kids at the dance. I loved that even the extras had 80s hair. I can imagine these kids who were born decades after 1984 sitting in the hair trailer and thinking, "OMG what are you doing to my hair?!"

The arm's length slow dancing totally cracked me up because I TOTALLY remember doing that!

Hopefully now that Eleven knows Mike only has eyes for her, she will befriend Max (or at least stop being quite so hostile to her). I don't need them to become BFFs, but her unfounded jealousy caused her to hurt Max and then be rude to her.

I like Jonathan's relationship with Will, but aside from that I wouldn't mind if he disappears next season to go to college. One thing I liked in this episode was the contrast between Jonathan as loving big brother and Joyce as loving mom. Jonathan has been a good big brother. I can't say a bad word about his relationship with Will. But being a big brother is not the same thing as being a mom and we saw that difference when they were trying to heat the monster out of Will. Jonathan couldn't take seeing how much pain Will was in and was afraid that the process would kill him, to the point that he was crying, hugging Nancy, and ready to pull the plugs on the heaters. Joyce, on the other hand, was determined to get Will back even if that meant witnessing his excruciating pain.

I would also be okay with Nancy going off to college next year as I think her character has served its purpose. I did think it was very sweet when she saw Dustin crying and danced with him not only to make him feel better but to give him some status with the eighth grade girls. It was so sad to see him stride in so confidently and then see him deflate as he got rejected.

I totally cracked up when they showed Murray sitting outside laughing as the last of the DOE people left the lab and then the military guy flipped him off as they drove by.

I know it's tempting to make Joyce/Jonathan/Will and Hopper/Eleven into a new family, but I hope that they don't do that next season. I want to keep Joyce and Hopper as platonic friends, and I also think that as much as Eleven likes having friends and a support system, living with that many people would be a lot for her. Even though she's the same age as the boys, in some ways she is much younger because she hasn't had regular socialization with normal people for most of her life. She went from being an emotionally manipulated lab rat to a couch potato hermit. She needs time to learn how to interact with people besides Hopper and the boys.

Quote

I felt just the tiniest bit sorry for Dart when he was lying there dead/dying next to a 3 Musketeers candy wrapper.  Like just 0.000000000000000001% sorry.  I love cats and he ate Dustin's cat so I hate that, but a small part of him trusted Dustin so I guess that's why I felt a tiny bit sorry.

Same here. Like the tiniest most minuscule amount, but sorry nonetheless.

Quote

I am surprised that so many people are glad El is ending up with Hopper when her mother is cationic mess from the heartbreak of loosing her. I was hoping El would rejoin her family and they could start healing.

Her mother isn't catatonic from the heartbreak of losing her. She's catatonic because Brenner fried her brain. No amount of love and attention from Eleven will bring her back from the brain damage he inflicted upon her. Well, unless Eleven has magical healing powers.

Quote

 I would be more into the idea of El living with him if she didn't already have a family who could love and nurture her better than the well meaning guy who kept her hidden for a year. She can go to school at Hawkin's middle school and continue to see all her friends. 

Her mother and aunt don't live in Hawkins so the only way for her to go to school at Hawkins and see her friends is if the aunt was willing to move there. The aunt is already responsible for taking care of Eleven's mom. I don't know if she has the time or the income to add the cost of feeding and clothing a kid. Staying with Hopper, who is not a blood relative, might be safer for Eleven too. My guess is that Hopper will encourage Eleven to get to know her aunt and build a relationship with her, but it's clear that Eleven has chosen to stay in Hawkins.

Quote

when I finally recognized him, I thought of Mad About You. But then again, I am old. 

I was thinking My Two Dads so I'm old too!

Quote

RIP Bob. <btw - why didn't Hopper just go with Bob to be his cover?! Or else Hopper could have flipped the switch while Bob could have done the computers..? I was very confused about that whole scene.

Bob wanted Hopper to get Joyce and the kids out of the facility. I think Bob even made Hopper promise to get them out no matter what, so he knew there was a chance he wouldn't make it out.

Just wanted to give credit to @Kostgard for noticing this detail before it was posted on twitter!

On 11/3/2017 at 8:58 PM, VCRTracking said:

And........ now I'm dead.

 

On 10/30/2017 at 10:20 PM, Kostgard said:

Another sweet Eleven/Hopper thing - I noticed Hopper wearing a blue bracelet that looks like a braided friendship bracelet or something. At first I thought maybe Eleven made it for him (hey, she's cooped up all day. Makes sense that she'd get into arts & crafts to kill the time), but he also wore it in season one (never noticed it them). He made it from his daughter's hair ribbon after she lost her hair and wears it as a reminder of her. That alone is sweet, but then I noticed that it looks like Eleven is wearing the bracelet at the dance. The fact that Hopper would let her wear something that is clearly precious to him says a lot. 

Edited November 5, 2017 by ElectricBoogaloo
Always proofread!

[VCRTracking]

6 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Quote

when I finally recognized him, I thought of Mad About You. But then again, I am old. 

I was thinking My Two Dads so I'm old too!

I still remember the theme to the latter "You can count on me..." I luckily saw those before I saw Aliens so I don't automatically hate or distrust him because he was corporate scumbag Burke in that movie!

[Clanstarling]

56 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

I still remember the theme to the latter "You can count on me..." I luckily saw those before I saw Aliens so I don't automatically hate or distrust him because he was corporate scumbag Burke in that movie!

I didn't see Aliens (or if I did, I don't remember much about it). I remember him mostly from Mad About You. It wasn't until it was clear he was connected to the Lab that I distrusted him. 

[Littlebitofcheese]

Loved season 2 ! Really thought the ending was well played out. Millie and Finn have good chemistry both when they reunite and at the dance. Does anyone else think Max and Lucas feels forced rather than natural ?

[blueray]

7 minutes ago, Littlebitofcheese said:

Loved season 2 ! Really thought the ending was well played out. Millie and Finn have good chemistry both when they reunite and at the dance. Does anyone else think Max and Lucas feels forced rather than natural ?

well according to the behind the scenes it wasn't in the original script. So it probably was more awkward for them to do.

[Littlebitofcheese]

8 minutes ago, blueray said:

well according to the behind the scenes it wasn't in the original script. So it probably was more awkward for them to do.

Not just the Kiss but their relationship in general. I don't know ...just feels off to me.

[EarlGreyTea]

15 minutes ago, blueray said:

well according to the behind the scenes it wasn't in the original script. So it probably was more awkward for them to do.

Apparently the Mike/Eleven kiss wasn't in the script either. I watched an interview with Millie and she said it was her idea. She went straight to the Duffers during the filming of the dance scene to ask them to put it in. She said the fans would be mad if they didn't kiss again.  After seeing the two separated for so long, I get that she felt there needed to be a good payoff. She has good instincts already.

Edited November 5, 2017 by EarlGreyTea