Bull in the Media

[sashayshante]

On 12/24/2018 at 6:30 PM, SamBeckett said:

Then why did CBS pay her $9.5 million?  (I’m not arguing, just trying to see what I’m missing.)

To shut her up. At the same time she this was going on, CBS and Moonves were being investigated for sexual misconduct and harassment issues. They didn't want her talking.

[dttruman]

1 hour ago, sashayshante said:

On 12/24/2018 at 6:30 PM, SamBeckett said:

Then why did CBS pay her $9.5 million?  (I’m not arguing, just trying to see what I’m missing.)

To shut her up. At the same time she this was going on, CBS and Moonves were being investigated for sexual misconduct and harassment issues. They didn't want her talking.

I can understand why CBS wanted to put a lid on this quickly with the Moonves scandal going on. I thought it would be one of those non-disclosure agreement, where Dushku couldn't say anything without losing all that money. But in the last few years it has become fashionable for victims who have been (sexually harassed or raped and) paid off to negate their agreements. Did Dushku double cross CBS and make this public? If so I thought she was putting that $9.5 million payout in jeopardy.

[biakbiak]

2 hours ago, dttruman said:

thought it would be one of those non-disclosure agreement, where Dushku couldn't say anything without losing all that money.

There was a non-disclosure agreement which is why Dushku didn’t comment on the original NY Times article that uncovered the settlement; however, CBS, MW and producers chose to participate in the story which allowed her to comment to defend herself with her oped.

As of January 1st you will no longer be able to attach a non disclosure agreement to any sexual harassment, sexual assault settlements in the state of California.

Edited January 3, 2019 by biakbiak

[dttruman]

1 hour ago, biakbiak said:

There was a non-disclosure agreement which is why Dushku didn’t comment on the original NY Times article that uncovered the settlement; however, CBS, MW and producers chose to participate in the story which allowed her to comment to defend herself with her oped.

I know all of this is beside the point, but how did the NYT get a hold of the story? It was convenient for it to come out at that time. Was there speculation that it was leaked by Dushku's side? When it came out and CBS and producers gave interviews, they were smart not to call it "hush money". They called it a guaranteed option on her contract, that didn't ask her to fulfill her part. Then they let the whole situation play out to the public.

[biakbiak]

Just now, dttruman said:

but how did the NYT get a hold of the story? It was convenient for it to come out at that time. W

The NY Times has been investigating CBS for a year plus and it stemmed from that investigation into Moonves and other harassment on the company this is one of many, many stories they have published. 

[SamBeckett]

Has anyone heard if CBS is going to resume filming/showing Bull (other than reruns)? Or are they now filming as I type this? I know this show like others has been on break. But new shows will start showing soon, right? Are these forthcoming new shows already filmed and in the can (as they say)? Or are they being filmed now or about to be?

(Sorry for not knowing this stuff.)

[Humbugged]

1 hour ago, biakbiak said:

The NY Times has been investigating CBS for a year plus and it stemmed from that investigation into Moonves and other harassment on the company this is one of many, many stories they have published. 

The big one being that they  uncovered the fact Moonves (bestie of MW according to him) had lied during the investigation which allowed the board at CBS to null and void his pay off of $120 m and fire him for cause.

 

32 minutes ago, SamBeckett said:

Has anyone heard if CBS is going to resume filming/showing Bull (other than reruns)? Or are they now filming as I type this? I know this show like others has been on break. But new shows will start showing soon, right? Are these forthcoming new shows already filmed and in the can (as they say)? Or are they being filmed now or about to be?

(Sorry for not knowing this stuff.)

They will have at least  3 or 4 in the can .

My guess is they are going to pull the trigger it will be at the end of the season as they can just not renew it and then won't face any pay outs

[Ms Blue Jay]

7 hours ago, biakbiak said:

As of January 1st you will no longer be able to attach a non disclosure agreement to any sexual harassment, sexual assault settlements in the state of California.

That's awesome!!!

[SamBeckett]

2 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

That's awesome!!!

I, too, think that’s great, but I wonder what that will mean when there’s a new claim brought? Will the companies like CBS and the individuals like Moonves be more willing or less willing to settle? Of course, they shouldn’t even be in that position, but ...

Edited January 4, 2019 by SamBeckett

[dttruman]

11 hours ago, SamBeckett said:

I, too, think that’s great, but I wonder what that will mean when there’s a new claim brought? Will the companies like CBS and the individuals like Moonves be more willing or less willing to settle? Of course, they shouldn’t even be in that position, but ...

I hope the guilty get what they deserve. But doesn't this kind of open things up for conniving women (or men for that matter) to set up a situation with an executive (be it man or woman), where it may hint at something improper? There seems to be a presumption of guilt on the executive (or boss) considering the times now.

[SamBeckett]

16 minutes ago, dttruman said:

I hope the guilty get what they deserve. But doesn't this kind of open things up for conniving women (or men for that matter) to set up a situation with an executive (be it man or woman), where it may hint at something improper? There seems to be a presumption of guilt on the executive (or boss) considering the times now.

Please trust me on this — I know women have been abused, and are still being abused, and things need to change. Then I remember the Demi Moore/Michael Douglas movie from what seems to be a century ago. Without remembering details, it was where a female boss took advantage of a man. It was chilling.

Please understand — I am not saying this because I think women ought to shut up and sit down. I say it just to throw it out there.

[Netfoot]

12 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

19 hours ago, biakbiak said:

As of January 1st you will no longer be able to attach a non disclosure agreement to any sexual harassment, sexual assault settlements in the state of California.

That's awesome!!!

If not to secure non-disclosure, why on earth would they settle?  Sounds like a bad idea to me.

[dttruman]

23 minutes ago, SamBeckett said:

Please trust me on this — I know women have been abused, and are still being abused, and things need to change. Then I remember the Demi Moore/Michael Douglas movie from what seems to be a century ago. Without remembering details, it was where a female boss took advantage of a man. It was chilling.

Please understand — I am not saying this because I think women ought to shut up and sit down. I say it just to throw it out there.

I don't know if my response here should be in the discussion group for "Disclosure" or if it applies here. In Disclosure, I thought that she filed against him, so he would be fired and blamed for the problem with the computer. This had nothing to do with a boss's usual sexual harassment situations. The harassment was used to cover something up, so I don't know if it applies here

Edited January 4, 2019 by dttruman

[thewhiteowl]

You're right, it doesn't apply here so stay on topic, please. I'm sure there are many places on the internet to discuss harassment in general but it's not really appropriate here. Thanks.

[Humbugged]

23 hours ago, dttruman said:

I hope the guilty get what they deserve. But doesn't this kind of open things up for conniving women (or men for that matter) to set up a situation with an executive (be it man or woman), where it may hint at something improper? There seems to be a presumption of guilt on the executive (or boss) considering the times now.

What the system of payouts and NDAs was  open to was for conniving bosses (and politicians )to abuse and harass their staff and others and then cover it up while  the public or shareholders were the ones paying the settlements while being kept in the dark .

 

The presumption put forward in this case put out by CBS and Caron was that Dushku by appearing in Maxim years earlier meant she was asking for it ,and that them presenting tapes with her swearing (gasp) were grounds to stop mediation - until the tapes showed the harassment happening

[dttruman]

12 hours ago, Humbugged said:

What the system of payouts and NDAs was  open to was for conniving bosses (and politicians )to abuse and harass their staff and others and then cover it up while  the public or shareholders were the ones paying the settlements while being kept in the dark .

 

The presumption put forward in this case put out by CBS and Caron was that Dushku by appearing in Maxim years earlier meant she was asking for it ,and that them presenting tapes with her swearing (gasp) were grounds to stop mediation - until the tapes showed the harassment happening

Bottom line, it will probably be mandatory to have a third person around. For lack of a better term, it's a chaperone.

[biakbiak]

5 hours ago, dttruman said:

Bottom line, it will probably be mandatory to have a third person around. For lack of a better term, it's a chaperone.

In this case it was literally a set full of people.

[Ceindreadh]

10 hours ago, dttruman said:

Bottom line, it will probably be mandatory to have a third person around. For lack of a better term, it's a chaperone.

 

5 hours ago, biakbiak said:

In this case it was literally a set full of people.

All of whom are getting paychecks from the same source and who will naturally have a vested interest in not saying or doing anything that would negatively affect that source. 

Given what happened to Eliza - somebody who could reasonably be expected to have a bit of power on the set - I’m not overly surprised that other people weren’t speaking out. 

And if a ‘chaperone’ was being paid by the production, guess where their loyalties would inevitably lie. 

[dttruman]

1 hour ago, Ceindreadh said:

And if a ‘chaperone’ was being paid by the production, guess where their loyalties would inevitably lie. 

I guess every party involved will need a chaperone (or witness). Or let me take it to a bigger extreme. Every party involved brings their own lawyer to advise them on the legalities for every move they should make. This has all the makings of a SNL skit. Maybe they have already done one?

[thewhiteowl]

Or they could expect adults to be professional in the workplace and fire the ones who are not, instead of the ones who make a legitimate complaint. Just saying.

In this instance, if the majority said hey mike, you're being a dick, stop it or we will all lose our jobs. Then maybe he stops or maybe I'll have some sympathy for them when they are all unemployed. It appears the cast and crew abetted his worst behavior so until I learn differently they can all fuck off.

[biakbiak]

3 hours ago, thewhiteowl said:

this instance, if the majority said hey mike, you're being a dick, stop it or we will all lose our jobs. Then maybe he stops or maybe I'll have some sympathy for them when they are all unemployed. It appears the cast and crew abetted his worst behavior so until I learn differently they can all fuck off.

Exactly. It’s the same feeling I had when people were lamenting that the rest of the cast and crew losing their jobs when Roseanne got cancelled. They all knew who she was and chose to make that decison to work with that person being number one on the call sheet yes it would have sucked for them if The Connors wasn’t picked up but they made the choice to work with her so I didn’t feel sorry for them.

[CrazyInAlabama]

I bet this show will be on for even more seasons, with no repercussions for Weatherly, because without him it won't be the same show.    Replacing him won't work either, so they'll make excuses for him, and ignore the whole issue.   However, I bet anyone on the show that doesn't publicly support him better have an idea of what their next job will be, because they can be replaced. 

 

I always thought the Roseanne cancelling was planned for, and the Connors was already proposed, but that's just my conspiracy theory.   Look at the great publicity the network got for firing her and cancelling the show, and how much money they probably saved too.    

Edited January 8, 2019 by CrazyInAlabama

[biakbiak]

1 hour ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

and how much money they probably saved too.    

It didn’t save them anything and cost them more than her initial contract because they had to buy out her interest in the show because she was a creator/producer.

[SadieT]

Still kind of bummed this show has yet to be canceled and is currently airing new episodes. Not sure if they’re waiting to ride out the season or what not before making a decision but it looks like Weatherly’s going to get a pass for being a creep. I guess CBS is only willing to make moves behind the scenes while letting the talent slide as long as ratings are good.

Anyway Vulture published an article on some more trouble at CBS, this time concerning NCIS: New Orleans and a couple of executive producers/writers who have been fired for shitty behavior. Michael Weatherly and Eliza Dushku and the problems at Bull are mentioned throughout. 

https://www.vulture.com/2019/01/adam-targum-fired-ncis-new-orleans.html

From the Vulture article:

Quote

During his reign, Kern had established an atmosphere in which “outright sexism and misogyny” were often parts of “normal conversation” in the writers room, according to one former writer for the show. One of the most notable instances of that came in June of 2016, when Kern told a group of NCIS: New Orleans employees that “we should cast Eliza Dushku because Les Moonves wants to fuck her,” according to multiple sources.

So Les Moonves apparently made it known that he wanted to sleep with Eliza Dushku prior to her being offered a role on Bull and this producer guy Kern made that known to anyone who would listen and basically ensured that Eliza would be treated with zero respect when she finally did land a gig at CBS.

I feel like it’s not much a stretch to think Michael Weatherly took his cues from the top concerning Eliza, considering he and Moonves are supposedly close so I’m sure he was aware of Moonves’s interest in her (not that it sounds like it was much of a secret). If the president of the network views an actress as a sex object and random producers are discussing her as such, it's no wonder she was treated so poorly on set.

Another quote from the article: 

Quote

“It didn’t work out on our show, but it worked out on Bull,” says a former NCIS: New Orleans employee. “I think that’s why she was treated like shit from day one. If she had come on our show, everyone would’ve known exactly why she was there.”

 The previous Vulture article investigating sexual harassment at CBS published last year even mentions Moonves wanting to hire an actress because he wished to sleep with her, but she isn't mentioned by name. I wonder if Eliza was made aware that her name had come up in a human resources investigation prior to her ever being hired at Bull. And for those people who think she was making too big a deal out of MW’s “jokes” or being overly dramatic, this just goes to show everyone knew what kind of atmosphere she was walking into and yet no one did shit make sure she was treated professionally.  

 

ETA:

Just to add to my rant because I forgot to mention the actresses that went out of their way to publicly support Weatherly on social media, indirectly trying to diminish Eliza Dushku’s experience....you know maybe MW was nice to those particular actresses on set and maybe they all got along swimmingly and were great friends.... but maybe, just maybe, he behaved differently towards Eliza because of the talk that surrounded her and her hiring at the network. Maybe he figured that’s what she was there for and he didn’t feel compelled to show her any respect because his boss didn’t and he knew he’d get away with it. Maybe he objectified her because she was in a vulnerable position and it was easy. Maybe he’s not the type of guy to treat all people poorly, maybe he’s selective and it would be nice if people would realize that just because person X is nice to you, doesn’t mean they’re nice to everyone. 

Edited February 1, 2019 by SadieT

[torqy]

This discussion makes me wonder, does MW basically play himself? Did not watch Dark Angel, but Bull and DiNozzo seem like the same character in different jobs with different names.

Edited February 23, 2019 by torqy

[CrazyInAlabama]

Just today it was announced that Bull is renewed for another season.    Steven Spielberg, and Amblin cut ties with the show, because of the allegations against MW. 

[Sarah 103]

This is huge news. It will be interesting to see if they bring in a new laywer and what kind of character they create, if they create a new lawyer character.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/glenn-gordon-caron-cbs-bull-investigation-1234957161/

[Dowel Jones]

After all the effort put into the campaign, they have Benny return to TAC, and now this?

[DanaK]

Yet another example of the White male star not being fired but others are expendable for similar bad behavior (though we don't know what happened with Rodriguez). I dropped this show after the first season because I was appalled about Weatherly's behavior and lack of real consequences (plus I wasn't that into the show). And of course Bruce Willis and Caron tried to point fingers at Cybill Shepherd as the source of problems on Moonlighting. Caron is and/or has been a mess as a showrunner over the years, particularly with Moonlighting, yet he's managed to snag multiple shows over the years (a great example of nearly untouchable abusive showrunners)

[nittany cougar]

On 1/3/2019 at 10:36 AM, dttruman said:

I can understand why CBS wanted to put a lid on this quickly with the Moonves scandal going on. I thought it would be one of those non-disclosure agreement, where Dushku couldn't say anything without losing all that money. But in the last few years it has become fashionable for victims who have been (sexually harassed or raped and) paid off to negate their agreements. Did Dushku double cross CBS and make this public? If so I thought she was putting that $9.5 million payout in jeopardy.

She sucked on the show.  She was like a sorority girl pretending to be a litigator and she had zero chemistry with Michael Weatherly.  I'm not making any excuses for Weatherly but maybe he was trying to create a rapport with her and she interpreted it differently.  

In my opinion she would have been released anyway due to her lack of fit with the cast.

Edited May 22, 2021 by nittany cougar

[mtlchick]

All Rise. The Neighbourhood.  MacGyver/Magnum PI.  Bull.

All 4 dumped their showrunners this SEASON.  All due to them creating a toxic work environment.  

Add on Sharon Osbourne's exit from The Talk and this is season CBS really need to examine THEMSELVES as to why keeps happening. 

I am curious to find out what happened to Freddy though.  Did he leave on his own accord because of the investigation?  Fired due to it?  

[JAYJAY1979]

On 5/22/2021 at 12:10 PM, DanaK said:

Yet another example of the White male star not being fired but others are expendable for similar bad behavior (though we don't know what happened with Rodriguez). I dropped this show after the first season because I was appalled about Weatherly's behavior and lack of real consequences (plus I wasn't that into the show). And of course Bruce Willis and Caron tried to point fingers at Cybill Shepherd as the source of problems on Moonlighting. Caron is and/or has been a mess as a showrunner over the years, particularly with Moonlighting, yet he's managed to snag multiple shows over the years (a great example of nearly untouchable abusive showrunners)

My mom used to tell me about Moonlighting...and she said while Cybill probably was difficult....her instincts said Caron was the problem.  And she figured he pitted Willis and Shepherd against one another.

Why is this show still on?  Certainly CBS could switch on the procedural assembly line to create a similar show to this without the toxic backstory 

[scorpio1031]

On 5/23/2021 at 7:57 AM, mtlchick said:

I am curious to find out what happened to Freddy though.  Did he leave on his own accord because of the investigation?  Fired due to it?  

All the articles have said fired, but no details.  Nothing happened to Weatherly, so probably thought he was safe

11 hours ago, JAYJAY1979 said:

her instincts said Caron was the problem.  And she figured he pitted Willis and Shepherd against one another.

I can believe that

[MerBearHou]

Benny / Freddy Rodriguez - leaving the show or fired.  This is big news.  Sure didn't see that coming.  The curiosity in me is dying to know why.

Benny is so vital to the Bull relationships -- wonder how that can be possibly be explained.  

[Moxie Cat]

21 hours ago, MerBearHou said:

Benny is so vital to the Bull relationships -- wonder how that can be possibly be explained. 

Well, Cable died on a bridge. Anything can happen. It's a shame they just didn't leave the DA race open-ended though - that would have been an easy out. Benny had already quit TAC!

I'm dying to know why too. I always liked Rodriguez and never read any gossip about him on this show or Six Feet Under.

Edited May 26, 2021 by Moxie Cat

[Ellee]

Benny gone?  Any chance he became more popular than Bull himself?  What about his sister and niece?  Do they disappear also with Bull being a ‘free man’?

It will be interesting to read what happened.  Won’t know what the truth is but something will come out.  

 

[DanaK]

Canceled after 6 seasons, finale in the Spring https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/cbs-bull-end-season-6-1235077015/

[JessDVD]

Not surprising. This whole season has felt like a wind down. Better to do it now then try to limp along (and yes, I know some of you have thought we've been there for several seasons already). I've enjoyed this show despite its issues, hope it goes out well.

[Showthyme]

Benny was the reason why people continued to watch this show. The casting was terrible otherwise.  Even Michael Weatherby didn’t seem like a good fit to play the Dr. Bull role. I liked the concept of the show but didn’t care for some of the sub-story lines. I would have continued to watch simply because there wasn’t much else on.

 

[LadyIrony]

I'm not surprised. The show has always been flat in terms of chemistry between the cast as well as interesting individuals. I can tell the actors are just acting, waiting for their turn to deliver their lines. 

Weatherly is boring as Bull, whereas Dinozzo was great. 

Bull also has nowhere to go as a show. The same thing every week.

[maggiemae]

Seriously - Dinozzo had a personality.

Bull has none.

 

[Sarah 103]

On 2/17/2022 at 2:44 AM, LadyIrony said:

Weatherly is boring as Bull, whereas Dinozzo was great. 

I hadn't thought of it but I think you may be onto something. Bull doesn't seem to have outside interests or something he's passionate about aside from work. Dinozzo loved old movies. 

[LadyIrony]

19 hours ago, maggiemae said:

Seriously - Dinozzo had a personality.

Bull has none.

 

 

4 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

I hadn't thought of it but I think you may be onto something. Bull doesn't seem to have outside interests or something he's passionate about aside from work. Dinozzo loved old movies. 

Yeah they have made Bull too perfect and he is just bland. No weird hobbies, no odd collections etc No flaws. He just works and that is it. 

DiNozzo was a skirt chaser and movie lover as well as having great chemistry with his co stars. He was also an unlikely cop. I believe Bull as a lawyer he just isn't interesting - they've made it too realistic in some ways. 

Edited February 27, 2022 by LadyIrony

[maggiemae]

And it was so boring to see zipper woman turn around yet again to show it off. They should have at least had a seamstress fit it to her.

[LadyIrony]

5 minutes ago, maggiemae said:

And it was so boring to see zipper woman turn around yet again to show it off. They should have at least had a seamstress fit it to her.

I don't watch often are you meaning Marissa? I noticed in one of the last eps she was wearing a dress with a zipper running down the back. She is not as hot as we are meant to believe she is. 

[maggiemae]

Yes, Marissa, and often several times a show

LOL, thinking it is her trademark.

Edited March 7, 2022 by maggiemae

[torqy]

Didn't watch  the show with Jessica Alba (can't remember title) but what I have seen of Weatherly he seems to play himself regardless of casting.

[Netfoot]

8 hours ago, LadyIrony said:

She is not as hot as we are meant to believe she is. 

By a huuuge factor. When ever I see her I think: Mutton dressed as lamb.

[LadyIrony]

On 3/7/2022 at 11:23 PM, Netfoot said:

By a huuuge factor. When ever I see her I think: Mutton dressed as lamb.

I'd like to know if she chooses her own make up. It seems too harsh and heavy for her face, especially that bright red lipstick she favours.

[maggiemae]

Thing is, imo, Bull has no sense of humor or fun.