Season 5 Discussion

[mamadrama]

I feel like we all (and I am including Andrei and Elizabeth in this) have different ideas as to what constitutes a "club." I mean, there are LOTS of different kinds of nightclubs out there and not all of them are the meat markets that seem to be the cornerstone for generalizing all the others in this discussion. I no longer go to the trendy clubs that play vibrating techno, have hour-long lines to get in, and have $35 cover charges and $20 drinks because a) I am no longer 22 and b) I'd rather spend my money on something else. But travel about an hour from where I live (which is how long it takes to reach anything around here) and you'll find a bevy of salsa clubs, jazz clubs, blues clubs, and even night clubs that have ballroom dancing. 

There are so many different factors to take into consideration when speaking of this topic that I am not sure we'll all ever totally agree on everything. 

[Nowhere]

4 minutes ago, mamadrama said:

I feel like we all (and I am including Andrei and Elizabeth in this) have different ideas as to what constitutes a "club." I mean, there are LOTS of different kinds of nightclubs out there and not all of them are the meat markets that seem to be the cornerstone for generalizing all the others in this discussion. I no longer go to the trendy clubs that play vibrating techno, have hour-long lines to get in, and have $35 cover charges and $20 drinks because a) I am no longer 22 and b) I'd rather spend my money on something else. But travel about an hour from where I live (which is how long it takes to reach anything around here) and you'll find a bevy of salsa clubs, jazz clubs, blues clubs, and even night clubs that have ballroom dancing. 

There are so many different factors to take into consideration when speaking of this topic that I am not sure we'll all ever totally agree on everything. 

Agreed. I'm thinking of the type of club that I think Andrei is probably thinking of, which is the trendy meat markets for 20-somethings you mentioned. I think if Elizabeth said she wanted to go to a piano bar, it wouldn't be a problem. But I think it's about the marriage and compromising. If he's ok with it then great. If not, they can discuss it or part ways if they aren't compatible. I think they are though and Elizabeth is making an issue for good tv. She knows she won't be going anywhere without her arm candy. I'll take him if she doesn't want to hang out with him. Dibs on Andrei if she dumps him over girls night clubbing. 

[brillia79]

27 minutes ago, Nowhere said:

You're turning it into something it's not. Since you brought up logic, try to stick to the topic instead of attacking a straw man. I'm not arguing whether or not women should leave the house or if they get catcalled. Bringing up how a woman is dressed as if "asking for it" is irrelevant and a possible red herring. I'm only talking about respecting your partner's wishes. I am not arguing women's rights, free the nipple, or any other feminist issue. I know them all and I'm probably one of the biggest feminists you'd know if you ever met me. It's just simply not what I'm talking about in this instance and if you want to respond to what I am saying, I welcome it, but don't make it something it isn't. I'm ONLY saying that giving up club night as a married woman is not that big of a deal. Andrei said he is also giving up club night as a married man, so there are no double standards. 

But since you want to talk about it, the fact is, there are places that are less safe for women than other places. I'm just glad you are still unaware of that fact because that means nothing terrible has happened to you. That's a good thing and we can agree to disagree. 

My disagreement with your interpretation does not mean I'm not quite on topic.

Dressing up controlling behavior as loving concern is not supporting women. It's right out of the DV playbook. Suggesting approved alternatives to going out to clubs is not supporting women. Making it seem like a married woman who enjoys going to clubs is unnatural is not supporting women. Presuming to know what I have or have not experienced regarding women's safety is definitely not supporting women.

I completely get what you are saying. It's all very basic.

Respect is a two-way street. Telling someone what they can't do without considering their feelings is not mutual respect. Or sexy. Or manly.

Edited November 22, 2017 by brillia79

[Sugar]

There are plenty of women who "control" their husband's comings and goings as well - they've been upfront about not wanting their husband to go to strip clubs, for example. Is that controlling? Personally, I don't think so. Each couple has their own rules that work for them, based on what each individual is/isn't comfortable with. Usually these are decided before marriage, and both parties are aware of them. In my own relationship, we're both extremely independent and are totally ok with the other going out alone or with friends to clubs, concerts, bars, etc., but if my fiance suddenly told me he wasn't comfortable with it, I wouldn't take it as a desire to 'control' me. Sometimes you do worry about safety (I worry about him getting too drunk to get himself home ok, for example), about spending too much money, about making stupid decisions (not necessarily cheating, but getting in trouble in general), etc. Just because Andrei has said he isn't comfortable with Libby going to clubs, does not make him controlling in my eyes. I equally wouldn't deem her so if she had told him she didn't want him going out with his guy friends.

I mean, what works for you in your relationship doesn't work for everyone. And I've seen many happy marriages where one partner was definitely in charge and making the rules, but their spouse had no problem "submitting" to their demands (and no, not purely sexual either), so different strokes for different folks. Some people are more passive and actually like when their partner is calling the shots - as long as it's consensual, whatever.

Would also like to point out that we haven't been shown any arguments between Libby and Andrei where they are seriously fighting about this issue. She brought it up half assed during a phone call, he said he wasn't ok with it, and she basically just let the topic die. If she had gone back and forth and seemed to be really serious about wanting to go out, and he was really serious about saying "no, I forbid it", I would change my tune on this issue, but it seems like people are mostly arguing a hypothetical situation that didn't really happen...

Edited November 22, 2017 by Sugar

[Nowhere]

15 minutes ago, brillia79 said:

My disagreement with your interpretation does not mean I'm not quite on topic.

Dressing up controlling behavior as loving concern is not supporting women. It's right out of the DV playbook. Suggesting approved alternatives to going out to clubs is not supporting women. Presuming to know what I have or have not experienced regarding women's safety is definitely not supporting women.

I completely get what you are saying. It's all very basic.

And I completely get that you are trying to win what you perceive as an argument by bringing up unrelated issues. I'm talking about compromise in a relationship. That's it. 

If you actually read any of my post you'd know that I said there's nothing wrong with going to clubs, or even "titty bars" as you do eloquently put it. I don't even have an issue with chippendales bachelorette parties. 

And yes concern for women's safety is definitely supporting women. Until men get their heads out of their asses and start treating us with respect in club environments, I'm not sure why we should grace them with our presence at all. I'd rather stay home than get raped. No offense to the good men in this forum but women do have legitimate fears. 

Again, this is about relationship compromise and you are off topic. 

Im sure you need the last word, so I'll let you have it. 

Edited November 22, 2017 by Nowhere

[brillia79]

6 minutes ago, Sugar said:

Would also like to point out that we haven't been shown any arguments between Libby and Andrei where they are seriously fighting about this issue. She brought it up half assed during a phone call, he said he wasn't ok with it, and she basically just let the topic die. If she had gone back and forth and seemed to be really serious about wanting to go out, and he was really serious about saying "no, I forbid it", I would change my tune on this issue, but it seems like people are mostly arguing a hypothetical situation that didn't really happen...

She's brought it up numerous times with her sisters. It came up again while they were together in person. Per next week's previews, it's going to come up once more (though I admit I'm not sure if a strip club is involved or not). It could all be just acting for TV, but it doesn't seem like a settled issue.

As for women, husbands and strip clubs, if you tell your husband you don't like them, you'd rather he not go, and come to a mutual agreement, no big deal. If you absolutely forbid him from going, it's controlling. It's probably a good idea to put that out on the table before a marriage. Nothing wrong with deal breakers.

[brillia79]

6 minutes ago, Nowhere said:

And I completely get that you are trying to win what you perceive as an argument by bringing up unrelated issues. I'm talking about compromise in a relationship. That's it. 

If you actually read any of my post you'd know that I said there's nothing wrong with going to clubs, or even "titty bars" as you do eloquently put it. I don't even have an issue with chippendales bachelorette parties. 

And yes concern for women's safety is definitely supporting women. Until men get their heads out of their asses and start treating us with respect in club environments, I'm not sure why we should grace them with our presence at all. I'd rather stay home than get raped. No offense to the good men in this forum but women do have legitimate fears. 

Again, this is about relationship compromise and you are off topic. 

Im sure you need the last word, so I'll let you have it. 

Because rape and disrespect of women is limited to clubs. 

Every issue I have mentioned has come up on these threads. Even how omen dress in clubs and why it's a problem. You see, your problem with me is that I do read.

So like I expressed previously, you'll have to stay home from a lot more places to avoid rape. Oh, wait, women get sexually assaulted in their homes by people they know. Sometimes by, gasp, abusive husbands.

Paternalism fails yet again.

[Forum member]

My wife is a farmers daughter from the Philippines. When she hears the word club she associates it with bad girls and whores and naughty men. I don't know if that is limited to her local town or it's a common belief throughout the Philippines. A long time ago I played in local bands. I was mentioning name of some of the bars and saloons and dance halls and juke joints we played, then said the Lamplighter Club. Club? You played in a club? Huh? It was an old worn out place where old farmers took their old wives for a bad steak and dancing. Nothing could be farther from a wild night, but that club word got her attention. 

[Lemons]

5 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I just agree with what AZChristian said, that we see things through the lenses of our lives.  I say Luis has different boundaries, someone else may say that  he's close to being an abuser.  Both opinions can be right. 

But what everybody seems to agree on  is that Molly needs to step up, because when Luis was pushing Kinsley in the swing and Kinsley said he had to stand BEHIND her, notice Molly did nothing.  She didn't correct Luis.  

Why would Luis think he was doing anything wrong?

The scene on the swing made me compare Luis to a 12 year old. I can see a 12 year old pushing a 6 year old in a swing and then the six year old getting bossy, telling him how to do it. Then the 12 year old saying, "no, you're not the boss of me! I'll stand wherever I want."  Both of them trying to be in control. 

This whole thing about teenage girls and grown men pursuing them reminds me of Alabama right now.  The age of consent is 16 y'all !  Doesn't make it right. 

[Lemons]

3 hours ago, Porkchop said:

I read recently that in Russia, there are 450 professions that women cannot participate in. Surely that's oppression.

Russia has a dictator that makes Andrei look feminine.  Putin is a macho pig so that's not surprising in the least. The fact that Putin wants those Eastern European countries back under his control should be a concern for the whole world. 

[Pachengala]

6 hours ago, brillia79 said:

People are even treating Azan like a molester for changing a toddler's diaper - likely at Nicole's insistence.

I actually really enjoy watching Azan with May--he seems natural and affectionate and sweet with her in a way her own mother does not--but think his changing her diapers is inappropriate. No one changes my 2yo's diapers except me, my husband, or her grandmother, period. I can't even imagine letting a new acquaintance (to May) perform such a private act. 

The idea of asking my husband's permission to go out dancing or for drinks at a club is so weird to me. I love to go out with my girlfriends and wouldn't marry someone who felt I needed his okay to do so. But then I also don't think a spouse should fill all social roles; it's an unfair expectation for one person. Having friends and loved ones who fill different spaces of my life helps me be a more well-rounded person and thus a better partner to my husband. However, I wouldn't presume that my way works for everyone; every partnership is unique. 

[brillia79]

2 minutes ago, Pachengala said:

I actually really enjoy watching Azan with May--he seems natural and affectionate and sweet with her in a way her own mother does not--but think his changing her diapers is inappropriate. No one changes my 2yo's diapers except me, my husband, or her grandmother, period. I can't even imagine letting a new acquaintance (to May) perform such a private act. 

The idea of asking my husband's permission to go out dancing or for drinks at a club is so weird to me. I love to go out with my girlfriends and wouldn't marry someone who felt I needed his okay to do so. But then I also don't think a spouse should fill all social roles; it's an unfair expectation for one person. Having friends and loved ones who fill different spaces of my life helps me be a more well-rounded person and thus a better partner to my husband. However, I wouldn't presume that my way works for everyone; every partnership is unique. 

I'm pretty sure the last thing Azan wants to do is change diapers, but Nicole is really pushing this daddy thing - which is inappropriate. Plus, Nicole is not a responsible person. She got snippy with her mom for not bringing diapers the morning Nicole was leaving for Morocco. As though it was her mother's responsibility to pack for May. I totally see Nicole pushing parenting off on Azan. I just think it sucks that he's being looked at with suspicion for picking up the slack.

[3girlsforus]

6 hours ago, AZChristian said:

I don't disagree on the possibility of "different boundaries."  Maybe they're even cultural because he's from a different country.  I'd feel the same if he were from Moldova; my feelings are NOT because of his skin.  That doesn't mean he doesn't need to be made aware that his behaviors with minors may be inappropriate.

Mr. AZC and I met when I was 16 and he was 22.  We were engaged within two months and married within 8 (when I was 17).  We've been married 53 years.  We were from "different cultures" in a way.  I was from Baltimore, and he was from North Platte, Nebraska.  LOL.  

My take on both situations:  We see things through the lens of our lives.  I was molested as a child, and Luis' behaviors make me uncomfortable.  I was married at 17, and young marriage doesn't.

I get that it works sometimes but to me a man in his mid to late 20s who is trolling the internet and seeks out a high schooler based on a bikini photo is gross and far more likely to mean the man has issues than that it's going to end up being a relationship that lasts 53 years (congrats BTW). 

David Spain bothers me a lot because of this. As you say, we all see things through our own lens. I have 3 girls (duh) and one is 18. I can guarantee if some 28 year old guy can sniffing around wanting to marry her my husband would be booking her into the nearest tower with a moat and introducing the guy to the song "Just Cleaning My Gun', not helping her pick cake and a new apartment. 

[CofCinci]

I bet Andrei first met Libby in a club when she was totally drunk and ready to bang.  That’s probably why he doesn’t want her to go to a club. 

[Pachengala]

1 minute ago, brillia79 said:

I'm pretty sure the last thing Azan wants to do is change diapers, but Nicole is really pushing this daddy thing - which is inappropriate. Plus, Nicole is not a responsible person. She got snippy with her mom for not bringing diapers the morning Nicole was leaving for Morocco. As though it was her mother's responsibility to pack for May. I totally see Nicole pushing parenting off on Azan. I just think it sucks that he's being looked at with suspicion for picking up the slack.

You're most likely correct; Nicole seems shocked that she's expected to actually parent her child. For me, I'm not looking at Azan with suspicion at all. My concern is more for May, and my own child. I'm going to say this poorly because it's more rooted in feelings than logic, but I think it's important that we respect our children's bodies, and help them understand that those bodies, and in particular their genitals, are their own, and private, and no one deserves access to them without their say so. They're not for strangers (or acquaintances) to touch willy-nilly. It's more about empowering our kids than thinking Azan is in any way a child molester. Hope that makes sense! 

[brillia79]

10 minutes ago, CofCinci said:

I bet Andrei first met Libby in a club when she was totally drunk and ready to bang.  That’s probably why he doesn’t want her to go to a club. 

But she did keep banging him after that, so that's gotta count for something, right?

[Bubbles1967]

Molly seems to want a live in babysitter . She kept on saying to Luis he needs to help her. Wasn’t she doing everything herself before.

i love how she was hounding Luis about watching Kensley when she was on the monkey bars. “She could break her arrmmmm”. But then she calls Luis over and barely pays attention to her.  

Obvious her focus is now on him.  Olivia’s right.  She one of these women wh are desperate for a man she’ll neglect her kids. Bet Olivia will make sure Kensley is taken care of. She will be the mom.

the kicker will be if she goes to DR with Luis like he wants to and leaves the kids behind. I’d feel so sorry for those kids

[AZChristian]

1 hour ago, 3girlsforus said:

I get that it works sometimes but to me a man in his mid to late 20s who is trolling the internet and seeks out a high schooler based on a bikini photo is gross and far more likely to mean the man has issues than that it's going to end up being a relationship that lasts 53 years (congrats BTW). 

David Spain bothers me a lot because of this. As you say, we all see things through our own lens. I have 3 girls (duh) and one is 18. I can guarantee if some 28 year old guy can sniffing around wanting to marry her my husband would be booking her into the nearest tower with a moat and introducing the guy to the song "Just Cleaning My Gun', not helping her pick cake and a new apartment. 

My 18-year-old (or younger) high schooler would not be posting bikini photos on the internet.  I'm not a "blaming the victim" person, but doesn't she have any accountability for putting out bait for a troller?  Especially since we're all talking about her being so young.  Shouldn't her parents have been protecting her from her own immature decisions THEN?

[Real Eyes]

16 hours ago, mamadrama said:

Sure, why not? You don't "have" to go anymore than you "have" to eat ice cream or wear high heels or watch "90 Dy Fiance" but it you like doing it and want to, then why not?

I've been married for 12 years and we have 2 kids. I still go out dancing with my girlfriends. My husband could come if he wanted but he's not really into big groups of people so he chooses to stay home. But he also thinks that it's GOOD for me to have "girl time" and there have been instances in which I've tried to get him to come with us and he's declined because he thinks I need some time alone with the gals. And Vegas? Heck yeah! My mother and I went together not that long ago, just the two of us. Just me and Mom, watching male strippers, throwing back mai tais, and gambling next to each other. Heck, my husband bought my plane ticket. 

I love my husband. We've been through the 90 day fiance visa program together. We've also survived the death of his mother, my brain surgery, the death of our youngest son, job losses, depression, long-distance moves, and cutting the cable cord. Some people claim they've rarely seen us apart. We have a strong marriage and a life together that we love, but we're also two separate individuals. We have our own interests and sometimes those don't gel. I truly believe that the reason we've been married for so long, and been able to survive so many obstacles in our relationship, is because we trust each other and are supportive of one another. 

The difference is your husband doesn't have an issue with it.  If a spouse has an issue with what the other is doing, and it is not a necessity for the other, then a compromise suitable to both needs to be found, and truly, a woman (or a man) doesn't "have" to go to Vegas without the other, if the other is uncomfortable with it.  

I have been married over 30 years.  We were married in the USSR, and then the Soviets decided he should not be given the ability to leave the USSR.  We've survived the death of both his parents, of my Grandmothers, the death of a child, my near death (hospitalized for over two weeks, 3 days of which were touch and go, and he had 3 children, the oldest being 4 years old, to deal with).  We have separate interests, but I would never do anything at all on which he has strong feelings, and he is in zero way controlling, he believes very much in free will.  I am not a club person, wasn't even when I was young, but had I been, yes, he would have had issues with me going out and dancing with other men.  It would have nothing to do with trust, and more to do with living what he views as a "family life".  

19 hours ago, brillia79 said:

She's going to clubs with friends and her sisters. A husband who tells his wife she can't go somewhere is a controlling husband. Club or tea room. Eastern European or American.

Furthermore, how does a husband plan to enforce his no club edict? What's the punishment for breaking this decree?

It doesn't matter.  It is about respecting something that is important to your spouse.

A woman or man who doesn't respect the other's wishes isn't thinking of their spouse.  How does he plan to enforce it?  Depends on whether or not it's a deal breaker for him.  If it is, then the wife has to choose what's more important to her - going to clubs, or having a husband.

Edited November 23, 2017 by Real Eyes

[Real Eyes]

11 hours ago, brillia79 said:

Peopke try to excuse a whole lot of unseemly behavior by hiding behind culture.

 

But in this case, it truly is cultural.  I know, as I lived in that culture. 

[Real Eyes]

5 hours ago, Ivanova said:

I can assure you that it's not true and never was ☺

Depends on the man's age.

My husband lived in both then Leningrad and Kyiv.  He grew up in Kyiv and said when he was a child, one never saw women at football (soccer) games, this in a stadium of over 60,000 people.  He said it was expected women would be home with their children, and if there was a woman there, men literally gasped.

I read Arwen Evenstar's post to my husband, and he said yes, this was the prevailing attitude when he was a child and a young man.  Of course things have changed in this regard, we even talked about women attending football matches now, LOL.

Edited November 23, 2017 by Real Eyes

[brillia79]

3 minutes ago, Real Eyes said:

But in this case, it truly is cultural.  I know, as I lived in that culture. 

Restrictions placed on women often are cultural.

So where's the lie?

[Real Eyes]

7 minutes ago, brillia79 said:

Restrictions placed on women often are cultural.

So where's the lie?

It doesn't make it unseemly.  

[brillia79]

1 minute ago, Real Eyes said:

It doesn't make it unseemly.  

Not being able to go to soccer games or out to eat alone as a woman because you'll be branded a whore isn't unseemly?

Am I supposed to believe that no Eastern European like restaurants or soccer?

[Real Eyes]

5 minutes ago, brillia79 said:

Not being able to go to soccer games or out to eat alone as a woman because you'll be branded a whore isn't unseemly?

Am I supposed to believe that no Eastern European like restaurants or soccer?

No, it is you imposing your cultural identity and cultural values on another culture.  Believe it or not, not every culture follows Western or American "values".

Edited November 23, 2017 by Real Eyes

[brillia79]

Just now, Real Eyes said:

No, it is you imposing your cultural identity on another culture.  Believe it or not, not every culture follows Western or American "values".

As opposed to men imposing their will on women. Things are changing, per your own statements, which means women weren't fully on board with not being able to do things men didn't want them to do.

FGM is cultural.

So are child brides.

Calling women whores for doing things men don't want them to do is actually very American. So I guess we share that culturally with Eastern Europeans.

[magemaud]

In respect to Nicole still being in bed in the late afternoon, what else is she going to do when Azan isn't there? She has shown absolutely no intellectual curiosity or interest in the Moroccan culture, seeing the sights, interacting with the people, trying to learn the language, or trying the food. She won't drag her ass out of bed to take a walk (horrors!) or even take May outside for some fresh air. There's probably nothing on TV in English and she doesn't strike me as a "reader," so unless May is willing to share her electronic device, Mama Nicole is bored and escapes by sleeping. 

[Real Eyes]

10 minutes ago, brillia79 said:

As opposed to men imposing their will on women. Things are changing, per your own statements, which means women weren't fully on board with not being able to do things men didn't want them to do.

FGM is cultural.

So are child brides.

Calling women whores for doing things men don't want them to do is actually very American. So I guess we share that culturally with Eastern Europeans.

You obviously have never lived in Eastern Europe.  The ability of men (and I mean specifically, Russian/Ukrainian/Belarussian/Moldovan men) to "impose" their views on women in the family is laughable.  In almost all cases of every marriage I have ever seen, women, ultimately, rule the household.  

 

As for FGM and child brides, both will exist until mothers decide their daughters should not be mutilated or forced into marriages.

Edited November 23, 2017 by Real Eyes

[brillia79]

8 minutes ago, Real Eyes said:

You obviously have never lived in Eastern Europe.  The ability of men (and I mean specifically, Russian/Ukrainian/Belarussian/Moldovan men) to "impose" their views on women in the family is laughable.  In almost all cases of every marriage I have ever seen, women, ultimately, rule the household.  

And yet, they couldn't grab a bite to eat alone in public, or go to a soccer game.

Funny how that works.

[brillia79]

29 minutes ago, Real Eyes said:

 

As for FGM and child brides, both will exist until mothers decide their daughters should not be mutilated or forced into marriages.

And men stop insisting on virgin brides and trying to control women's sexuality. And until societies don't tie a girl's worth to her sexual purity. 

Mothers aren't reaching these ideas in a vacuum or on their own. But women always get the blame for complying with men's wishes and demands.

[Meowwww]

Left to my own devices, I sleep till noon or later on days I don’t work.   But I don’t have a little kid.  

 

Eta that if I was visiting another country, I wouldn’t be lazing around in bed.  

Edited November 23, 2017 by Meowwww

[Adeejay]

3 hours ago, Bubbles1967 said:

the kicker will be if she goes to DR with Luis like he wants to and leaves the kids behind. I’d feel so sorry for those kids

Luis has no intention of going back to the DR.  He is just using that as leverage.  Notice he said this to the brother, knowing it will get back to the family.  If he were really serious, he would have had that conversation with Molly, instead. 

[Cbean Girl]

Oh how did I miss this week! Blast you life but OMG! Evilyn fancies herself to be Florence from Florence and the machine and Lmao at David Spain barely containing his laugh when he spoke of her 'talent'. Delusional much?

[3girlsforus]

3 hours ago, AZChristian said:

My 18-year-old (or younger) high schooler would not be posting bikini photos on the internet.  I'm not a "blaming the victim" person, but doesn't she have any accountability for putting out bait for a troller?  Especially since we're all talking about her being so young.  Shouldn't her parents have been protecting her from her own immature decisions THEN?

Absolutely. Her parents actions thoroughout this entire thing have been appalling. They have not only failed to educate her in making good decisions  and failed to protect her from bad decisions, they’ve been encouraging this nightmare from the beginning. Horrible. 

Edited November 23, 2017 by 3girlsforus
Because complete sentences are best

[Former Nun]

38 minutes ago, Adeejay said:

Luis has no intention of going back to the DR.  He is just using that as leverage.  Notice he said this to the brother, knowing it will get back to the family.  If he were really serious, he would have had that conversation with Molly, instead. 

I dunno.  Would YOU have the guts to have that discussion with Molly?

[Former Nun]

1 hour ago, Meowwww said:

Left to my own devices, I sleep till noon or later on days I don’t work.

I probably don't sleep until noon...but it's "late" by some standards.  I get up, read the paper while I eat something, and--if I feel like it, GO RIGHT BACK TO BED!!!

[Drogo]

Roast the show, not other posters. 

Posts have been removed. 

[Real Eyes]

1 hour ago, brillia79 said:

And men stop insisting on virgin brides and trying to control women's sexuality. And until societies don't tie a girl's worth to her sexual purity. 

Mothers aren't reaching these ideas in a vacuum or on their own. But women always get the blame for complying with men's wishes and demands.

No they don't.  But if women are not willing to change certain cultural traditions/mores, they aren't going to change.  That is just reality.  But, have we, in the West, really done a superior job?

 

As for Elizabeth and Andrei, the argument is rather moot re restaurants.  He hasn't stated he doesn't want her going to restaurants.

[Splithair]

1 hour ago, Meowwww said:

Left to my own devices, I sleep till noon or later on days I don’t work.   But I don’t have a little kid.  

I have always been a night person (not stay up all night til the sun comes up, but til 3 or 4). I was like this even as a kid during summer vacation. I worked 2nd shift for 6+ years, which was the ideal schedule for me. Then I got a better job on days and figured I'd gradually conform to a "normal" schedule. Nope! I work 40+ hours during the week, then stay up late and sleep until 2p on weekends. I get teased about it constantly, but I can't help it and I need a lot of sleep for whatever reason. I hate mornings and am at my prime in the evenings. I also don't have a kid, so maybe that would force me to change, but I doubt it. Seems biological. 

[Cbean Girl]

I love Aika...please there must be some guy she can find who will treat her better than this douche. He wants to parade her around and objectify her but oh how dare she bring up his used ring and money. Aika runnnnnnnn! Don't fall in love with a dreamer (insert douche)

[liammaam]

11 hours ago, AZChristian said:

I don't disagree on the possibility of "different boundaries."  Maybe they're even cultural because he's from a different country.  I'd feel the same if he were from Moldova; my feelings are NOT because of his skin.  That doesn't mean he doesn't need to be made aware that his behaviors with minors may be inappropriate.

Mr. AZC and I met when I was 16 and he was 22.  We were engaged within two months and married within 8 (when I was 17).  We've been married 53 years.  We were from "different cultures" in a way.  I was from Baltimore, and he was from North Platte, Nebraska.  LOL.  

My take on both situations:  We see things through the lens of our lives.  I was molested as a child, and Luis' behaviors make me uncomfortable.  I was married at 17, and young marriage doesn't.

I would hazard a guess that most of us who are stating that we are very uncomfortable with Luis' interactions with the kids, have been molested ourselves as children.  We tend to know one when we see one, you know?   At the very least, he's a lech, because the way he switched on the porn moves during that dinner just to piss off Olivia was incredibly disturbing.

Honestly, though?  This falls on Molly for not protecting her daughters from even the *possibility* of this happening. 

I also am quite disgusted with Nicole for letting Azan change Mae's diapers, FWIW.   No one, other than IMMEDIATE family and known, trusted caregivers, gets to do that with my daughter.  I am hyper vigilant, and even that won't always protect my kids from the evils out there... but dammit,  I am not going to make it *easy* for the predators.   

[balisticnikki]

6 hours ago, Pachengala said:

But then I also don't think a spouse should fill all social roles; it's an unfair expectation for one person. Having friends and loved ones who fill different spaces of my life helps me be a more well-rounded person and thus a better partner to my husband.

This is an important Fun Fact of Life. Don't look for him to be all things to you. Get friends, a shrink, a priest, online discussion groups, a dog, whatever to fill most of the roles you need filled.

 

6 hours ago, CofCinci said:

I bet Andrei first met Libby in a club when she was totally drunk and ready to bang.  That’s probably why he doesn’t want her to go to a club. 

Sounds about right. But no, she said they met on a dating app when she was headed to Ireland.

[balisticnikki]

On 11/22/2017 at 10:59 AM, calpurnia99 said:

I don't think Molly and Luis have anything in common except fucking. Can Molly talk to Luis about anything important to her? I once dated a Latino guy who was a few years younger. Sex was great but after about 6 weeks I realized the guy had no brains at all. He was just plain dumb. 

Are you thinking this is more common w Latino men?

 

On 11/22/2017 at 5:04 PM, Bubbles1967 said:

the kicker will be if she goes to DR with Luis like he wants to and leaves the kids behind. I’d feel so sorry for those kids

Permanently? Do you think she'd have the nerve to leave kensley permanently & run off w him?

Honestly, I don't think she would.

[Nowhere]

1 hour ago, liammaam said:

I would hazard a guess that most of us who are stating that we are very uncomfortable with Luis' interactions with the kids, have been molested ourselves as children.  We tend to know one when we see one, you know?   At the very least, he's a lech, because the way he switched on the porn moves during that dinner just to piss off Olivia was incredibly disturbing.

Honestly, though?  This falls on Molly for not protecting her daughters from even the *possibility* of this happening. 

I also am quite disgusted with Nicole for letting Azan change Mae's diapers, FWIW.   No one, other than IMMEDIATE family and known, trusted caregivers, gets to do that with my daughter.  I am hyper vigilant, and even that won't always protect my kids from the evils out there... but dammit,  I am not going to make it *easy* for the predators.   

I really felt uncomfortable for Olivia when they were making out at the table. I wouldn't do that in front of my kids. But Molly keeps defending it as if it's normal to kiss that much  in front of the kids. If it was their dad then maybe it wouldn't be as bad, but this is just some young, horny dude that the kids barely know. And she's like, "That's what people do when they're in luuuuuuuuuuv." 

[Ivanova]

11 hours ago, Porkchop said:

I read recently that in Russia, there are 450 professions that women cannot participate in.

What are they?

[Gigglepuff]

3 minutes ago, Nowhere said:

I really felt uncomfortable for Olivia when they were making out at the table.

I'm gonna hazard a guess that other patrons and staff at the restaurant didn't want to see it either.  

[meandyouzz]

10 hours ago, funky-rat said:

Someone I know had a foreign exchange student from Thailand a number of years ago.  The family lives in a rural community - lots of farming - and the girl was from a big city, and she was amazed that the farmers weren't looked down on, and that other kids were friends with them, they had the same opportunities to go to college, etc, so yes, the caste system is alive and well there.

no caste system in Thailand-- there is lots of upward mobility here.

yes the Bangkok Thai-Chinese look down on the rural poor, but lets be honest, people from certain parts of the U.S. are also looked down on.

I have lived in the same area of Thailand as Annie (N.E. Thailand) for many years; first as a volunteer teacher at a very poor school and then as a business owner. the change in the area since I first arrived is incredible. when I arrived in the early 90s there were no cars in the villages and farmers were still using water buffaloes, now, the water buffalo has been replaced by tractors and cars are common place.  I even spotted a pick-up parked outside Annie's house.

my wife is one of 10 children from a typical farming family (no running water or inside bathroom when she was young). she and a brother and a sister became teachers. the brother is now a school director and his daughter is a medical doctor. one of her sisters who remained a farmer has 4 children, all college educated and working in corporate jobs. another brother has 2 sons and 2 daughters. the daughters went of to college and now work in Bangkok in IT jobs. the sons were lazy and now work in crummy jobs for minimum wage. all the kids that went to college received government student loans and attended college in N.E. Thailand. many of the students I taught have also gone off to join the middle-class with good jobs.

there is a popular phrase in Thailand called "mai pen rai" which roughly means "don't worry about it" and many attribute this to the care free attitude many Thais have to life. but it is this attitude that actually keeps many Thais down. for example: if a child does not do his homework, the parent might say "mai pen rai, he is just a kid". well, this is why the 2 sons in the paragraph above are now working for peanuts. long story short: getting out of poverty here is not impossible or even that hard, probably much easier than in the US., it just takes some effort and the right attitude. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

10 minutes ago, Gigglepuff said:

I'm gonna hazard a guess that other patrons and staff at the restaurant didn't want to see it either.  

Maybe in the next episode, they will pick fleas off one another and feed them to one another. I just threw up in my mouth.

[Nowhere]

5 minutes ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

Maybe in the next episode, they will pick fleas off one another and feed them to one another. I just threw up in my mouth.

He can pick lice out of her hair and stuff. 

[Cbean Girl]

On 11/21/2017 at 1:10 AM, Lemons said:

His hand hovering near her crotch?  That's a huge stretch. Didn't he have to

help this child into the seat?  Was he supposed to stay 5 feet away from her crotch area?

   

I don't think molly and Luis are going to work. If it was just them, maybe. But molly is expecting Luis to be a new father / babysitter and stay home in the boring suburbs. Luis likes the nightlife and isn't ready to give it up. Plus Luis doesn't really like the kids and he's having a hard time hiding it. Although the two kids aren't the most pleasant kids so who can blame him. 

I don't like.Luis but in his culture children are seen and not heard is still kinda common. So he was probably expecting that he would turn up and the children would just be like wall paper. He could ignore them when it suited him but oh no...he was way wrong on that one