meandyouzz

I'm confused: don't you have fancy waffle places in the U.S.? they are all over Asia.

after spending some time on Annie's old FB account I can tell you in the past few years she has been a college student, a hotel worker, and some type of office worker. At one time she had a foreign boyfriend that took her on trips in Asia. I think people have made some assumptions about her that might be a bit unfair. she has choices in life-- she could easily live and work in Thailand like anyone else. I think there is an assumption that a girl from a country like Thailand is driven to men like David out of some need to escape a horrible life, that they have no choice but to marry a fool like him or that their parents push them into it. This is really not the case, at least in Thailand. women in Thailand, like trophy wives in the US, sometimes just marry for an upgrade in life no matter how crappy the men are.

I'm not American so I have no clue about divorce in the US. can anyone tell me if Luis and Molly stay married for a few years or even 5, what will Luis get in a divorce? let's say they don't have a pre-nup and he stays at home. will she be on the hook for alimony?

no caste system in Thailand-- there is lots of upward mobility here. yes the Bangkok Thai-Chinese look down on the rural poor, but lets be honest, people from certain parts of the U.S. are also looked down on. I have lived in the same area of Thailand as Annie (N.E. Thailand) for many years; first as a volunteer teacher at a very poor school and then as a business owner. the change in the area since I first arrived is incredible. when I arrived in the early 90s there were no cars in the villages and farmers were still using water buffaloes, now, the water buffalo has been replaced by tractors and cars are common place. I even spotted a pick-up parked outside Annie's house. my wife is one of 10 children from a typical farming family (no running water or inside bathroom when she was young). she and a brother and a sister became teachers. the brother is now a school director and his daughter is a medical doctor. one of her sisters who remained a farmer has 4 children, all college educated and working in corporate jobs. another brother has 2 sons and 2 daughters. the daughters went of to college and now work in Bangkok in IT jobs. the sons were lazy and now work in crummy jobs for minimum wage. all the kids that went to college received government student loans and attended college in N.E. Thailand. many of the students I taught have also gone off to join the middle-class with good jobs. there is a popular phrase in Thailand called "mai pen rai" which roughly means "don't worry about it" and many attribute this to the care free attitude many Thais have to life. but it is this attitude that actually keeps many Thais down. for example: if a child does not do his homework, the parent might say "mai pen rai, he is just a kid". well, this is why the 2 sons in the paragraph above are now working for peanuts. long story short: getting out of poverty here is not impossible or even that hard, probably much easier than in the US., it just takes some effort and the right attitude.

I think most of the David/Annie story is water buffaloshit. The ceremony with the dancing etc. is part of a marriage ceremony, not an engagement ceremony. Water buffaloes are never part of a dowry. Thailand is not India, People here marry for love, the dowry is not that big of a deal-- it's usually just for show or nothing the guy can't afford to give. Traditionally the groom's family would pay it anyway. Sometimes when a Thai woman marries an older foreigner the dowry is more than usual, but the foreigner usually is glad to pay it because of the guilt he has for marrying someone so young. He often wants to play the role of a knight in shining armor, so is happy to fork up the cash so he can tell family and friends back home how he "saved his bride from a life of poverty:"-- any excuse to make the oddball marriage less ridiculous. Annie's family does not look that poor, at least in relation to the rest of rural Thais. Again Thailand is not India, girls don't have to sell themselves so their families can eat. Easy to find work here. Actually so much so that most of the crappiest jobs are done my migrant workers from Burma and Cambodia. I also believe the Thai massage comment was realty TV BS. Real Thai massage is not relaxing anyway-- more torture than relaxation.

90 DAY FIANCE David Toborowsky political scandal, prior reality show http://starcasm.net/archives/377880 the whole group of them are very questionable.

the custom is the same for Thais and foreigners. for Thais, the parents get together and agree on an amount because it is traditionally paid for by the groom's parents. gold is a normal part of a Thai wedding. Annie wants 11 baht weight of gold-- a ridiculous amount. 2 or 3 baht would be enough for most people. a dowry can be a way to show off so the amount can be huge when wealthy Thais/celebrities marry. additionally, the parents often give the newlyweds a house/car etc. if a girl goes off to work as a bar girl or prostitute, she will not announce it to the world-- she will say she is a singer or a waitress, etc. "Does the foreigner have to keep on supporting the family financially after he's paid the sin sot they arbitrarily demanded?" some do, some don't. in some cases it can be a lot. my Thai in-laws never asked for a thing, but my marriage was not a marriage of convenience. I have a feeling if David/Annie marry, it will be a huge drain on him. same for Larry from the other show.

you are right about Annie being a bar girl. my upper middle class neighbors do not speak English as well as Annie, so obviously she has on-the-job language training at the bar. a dowry (Sin Sod) is standard in Thai weddings. it is often just for show, but standard. if Annie is from a village where other women have married foreigners and the dowry was high, then David will be asked to pay a lot too (or at least show the money). it really depends on the parents and what type of social pressure they are under. if David is asked to pay the entire dowry at the engagement then I call BS on the entire relationship-- she is just milking him dry before moving on to the next fool. it is not uncommon for bar girls to have several fools on the hook at a time. it is more profitable to juggle several men then commit to one and move to the West. idiot David would be much better off finding a woman in her 30s or 40s that would appreciate having someone take care of her-- I really don't get why these people have to go so young.

In Thailand the dowry is given as part of the wedding ceremony, not at the engagement. At the promise to marry event (engagement) the parents get together and discuss the dowry, Traditionally the money would be held by the parents on behalf of their daughter as a form of insurance in case the man ran away. It originally was not for the parents. The amount of dowry and gold Annie is asking for is ridiculous--my Thai wife had a good laugh at that. The dowry is based on what the woman offers the man, not on the man's wealth. If the woman is educated, from a wealthy family or a beauty queen, the dowry is high. But Annie is poor and uneducated, so her parents can't ask for much. My wife was a public school teacher when we got engaged and her family asked for 100,000 baht but the money was returned after the wedding-- it was just symbolic. Many parents return the money. Annie is trying to get as much out of David as she can. I think she will then split and look for another sucker. Annie is a bar girl, the worst type to marry (or try to marry). You can take the girl out of the bar, but you can't take the bar out of the girl.