S03.E13: This Land is Your Land

[raven]

 With the Ranchers trapped and without hope, Alicia is thrust into a position of leadership where she's forced to make life-changing decisions.

[Shriekingeel]

The Poignant Recalled Anecdote Monologue To Eat Up Screen Time In Lieu Of Expensive Effects Shots trope was way out of hand in this one. 

[ShellsandCheese]

Just now, Shriekingeel said:

The Poignant Recalled Anecdote Monologue To Eat Up Screen Time In Lieu Of Expensive Effects Shots trope was way out of hand in this one. 

LOL. Right. As usual, this episode needed more Strand. 

[raven]

Ugh, well, I like Alicia and I like the idea of everyone looking to her to lead and her being in a reallly difficult situation; I also like the wacky hijinks of Nick and Troy...but this wasn't good.  The plan to slowwwly killl a few people was dumb - that whole pantry full of adults couldn't come up with something else?  At least try to break out past the zombies or something.  

[candall]

8 minutes ago, Shriekingeel said:

The Poignant Recalled Anecdote Monologue To Eat Up Screen Time In Lieu Of Expensive Effects Shots trope was way out of hand in this one. 

Ha, no kidding.  I used to yell at Game of Thrones if the camera lingered three unnecessary seconds--every moment was precious.  I just can't be bothered yelling at these jokers.

[oakville]

I liked Alicia in this episode. However, it did not make sense how they woul not try to break out of the storage unit & at least try to fight the walkers. They had weapons & ammunition. Why bother trying to suffocate to death?

[laschifosavita]

I don't get why Madison would send Nick and Troy after Alicia unless she secretly didn't want her to come back.  Alicia knows that the two of them are responsible for Jake dying.  Does Alicia have a reason to hate Strand?  I can't actually think of anyone else in the group that Alicia doesn't have a reason to want to run away from.

[william0102]

Guys, I watched the last half of this episode just telling myself I'd be okay if Alicia died (I wouldn't be, I'm still traumatized over Lexa's demise), and when it looked like she was about to go down for the fourth time, Madison shows up--- and I was still disappointed it was Madison.

I need the tptb to just send out a tweet when Alicia is going to die so I can be prepared, lol. Anyway, why didn't anyone help Alicia mercy kill these people? How the heck did it take two relatively healthy young people two hours to get to a one hour place? Why didn't these people turn on each other and mow the others down once Alicia told them they were gonna run out of air? I mean we're talking about two groups that hate each other (for different reasons) but no one pulled a crazy killing spree? How did Madison and Taka in their water truck actually save Nick and Troy? on Talkign Dead, Chris said it was because of the fuel reserves, but Nick shot those?? And why, why, why would you send Nick and TROY of all people to stalk Alicia? The person who just lied to her and a PSYCHOPATH? Really Madison? Way to show which child you love, lol.

[For Cereals]

Instead of standing around contemplating the lack of safety in the new world, would you not kill the rest of the folks who suffocated and be filling up any vehicles to capacity with provisions?  Psycho and Nick's truck bed looked empty and there seemed to be a lot of space in Alicia's Jeep...

[talktalk]

I just don't understand Alicia's reasoning for going out on her own. Nobody can survive on her own, even someone as "experienced" as her.  Was she just heart broken of losing Jake? regret of not taking up on his offer to leave together for this other place? 

[slf]

Haven't finished watching yet but Alicia has more chemistry with the guy with the bite than she's had with any other guy on the show. Something about that is funny to me.

[PrincessPurrsALot]

My favorite moment in this episode was when they showed the crowd in the shelter and everyone was in walker stance.  Did they all suddenly forget how to stand up straight?

"Promise me you'll never make decisions based on fear."  WTF.  Does she not know the name of the show?  It's not rationally consider the walking dead. 

[Iguessnot]

2 hours ago, raven said:

Ugh, well, I like Alicia and I like the idea of everyone looking to her to lead and her being in a reallly difficult situation; I also like the wacky hijinks of Nick and Troy...but this wasn't good.  The plan to slowwwly killl a few people was dumb - that whole pantry full of adults couldn't come up with something else?  At least try to break out past the zombies or something.  

Most useless bunch of survivalists ever. Good riddance. Suburbanite Alicia had to lead them because they couldn't do anything for themselves.

Nick said they had to create a diversion because there were too many walkers to just plow through. So they make a small firework and then proceed to plow through a bunch of undiverted walkers. Writers?

Ophelia said they needed to turn around and go feet first because there was a drop. But the next time we see them they are still moving forward. Writers?

The helicopter escape, the pantry approach and the retrieval of Ophelia all occurred under a complete shadow of mystery.

Alicia, in the ZA you have to make decisions based on fear. I understand her opposition to her mother, but a pipe dream all alone in the ZA. Unbelievable.

[thuganomics85]

So, after all these episodes focused on the Ranch, all the characters introduced are already dead with the exception of Troy, Walker, and Crazy Dog.  Granted, most of them were just bodies that served no purpose, but it still feels like this entire arc was pointless.

I really can't tell if the show wants to me to dismiss Nick's involvement in Jake's death, or if they are trying to make him cagey and an asshole about it.  It was hilariously rich when he was bitching at Troy about how he is responsible for Jake dying, which, yeah, Troy does have blame for unleashing the herd on everyone, but Nick still walloped Jake so hard that he sent him flying down a cliff.  Nick is just as responsible, but I can't tell if the show wants to me to think this, or if I'm suppose to be on his side.

Anyway, the bunker ends up losing its air, leading to Ofeila and Crazy Dog having to through the vents and take out a stuck walker.  Meanwhile, in order to save oxygen, Alicia basically executes anyone who was bitten, but that still isn't enough, and, again, everyone ends up being turned.  Oh, well, at least this episode lead to an excuse to just have Alycia Debnam-Carey in a sweaty tank-top for the entire thing.

Then the episode ends with everyone reuniting, but now Alicia has decided to go off on her own which, hey, I don't blame her considering how much her family sucks, but that is a pretty big dam, Alicia!  Just go there and stay far away from them!  Alas, she's jetting off to that place Jake told her, and being the loving mother that she is, Maddie lets Nick and Troy of all people tail her to be safe.  Maybe something will come out of this, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

[Nashville]

Dumbass Question #1:

You're trapped in a pantry with massive supplies of food, apparently more-than adequate cache of water and/or other liquids, and steel doors between you and a horde of infected.  Only problem is air supply.

So why not drill, shoot, or otherwise perforate some air holes in the door?

[MVFrostsMyPie]

How convenient everyone suffocated except for Alicia. Does she have special lungs or something?

What exactly was the point of driving to the helicopter? I must have not been paying enough attention. 

I hate Madison and her hair. They need to make her look as grimy as everyone else. Also, goodness gracious, could she be ANY LESS EMOTIVE?? She is stiffer than a frozen zombie.

[Nashville]

So let's see now - just how many safeholds have the Clarks destroyed?

1. Daniel's barbershop: admittedly short-term, but the Clarks drastically shortened its usefulness by drawing the rioters' attention to it.
2. The National Guard enclave.
3. National Guard hospital.
4. Catrina Island (home of the Gearys).
5. Abigail family estate.
6. The Abigail.
7. La Colonia.
8. The Hotel.
9. The Ranch militia's border outpost.
10. The Ranch.

Not bad considering we're only two months into the ZA, huh?   :P

[Gobi]

It's like some  strange Home Improvement show. Instead of going to a rundown place and  fixing it up, they go to a nice place and tear it down.

[JackONeill]

I guess most of you have sort of touched on this, but are we to believe that Madison and her crew, including the miraculously saved Nick and Troy, were able to kill at the walkers that were surrounding the pantry? The same set of walkers that had overrun all the people on the ranch AND their RVs?

And not that it’s anyone’s fault, but The Pantry just doesn’t ring heroic. I don’t think there will ever be a saying: Remember The Pantry!

[oakville]

5 hours ago, Nashville said:

So let's see now - just how many safeholds have the Clarks destroyed?

1. Daniel's barbershop: admittedly short-term, but the Clarks drastically shortened its usefulness by drawing the rioters' attention to it.
2. The National Guard enclave.
3. National Guard hospital.
4. Catrina Island (home of the Gearys).
5. Abigail family estate.
6. The Abigail.
7. La Colonia.
8. The Hotel.
9. The Ranch militia's border outpost.
10. The Ranch.

Not bad considering we're only two months into the ZA, huh?   :P

Thanks for the list!. It is amazing to think how much chaos this family has caused.The show should be renamed, Fear the Clarkes!

58 minutes ago, JackONeill said:

I guess most of you have sort of touched on this, but are we to believe that Madison and her crew, including the miraculously saved Nick and Troy, were able to kill at the walkers that were surrounding the pantry? The same set of walkers that had overrun all the people on the ranch AND their RVs?

And not that it’s anyone’s fault, but The Pantry just doesn’t ring heroic. I don’t think there will ever be a saying: Remember The Pantry!

Why wasn't there a scene of Madison & Strand driving to the ranch & seeing the chaos & try to rescue Alicia? They only showed her opening the door to the pantry.

[NaughtyKitty]

Wouldn't the walker stuck in the vent fan burn out the motor.  I almost turned off my tv when the fan started working again once he fell out.

[JackONeill]

I missed this: Did Crazy Dog (or whatever his name is)(the guy who went with Ophelia) live? I saw him fall...and then I blinked. I don't think I saw him at the get-together at the end.

[Nashville]

3 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Aren't bunker doors usually steel reinforced?  Do they even have a drill with the proper drill bits to drill through it?

Frankly, the doors didn't look super-substantial in the scene where the bunker Betties were last-minute closing the door against the advancing infected horde.  They are metal - or appeared to be - but we aren't talking bank vault levels of thickness; sheet metal vs. plate metal.

And if they're storing weapons in the bunker, I don't think a baseline level of tools would be too big of a reach.  That, or load up a rifle with some armor-piercing rounds - which I guarantee any serious militaristic prepper would have stocked up on.  Even if the dumb fuckers forgot to pack a drill.

 

Quote

I am still trying to figure out what powered the electricity for the bunker.  They couldn't just be relying on a generator.

Depends on what fuel store they have laid up in the bunker.  Of course, if there is a generator, then there has to be an OUTSIDE VENT for its exhaust....  :P

 

Quote

As I said last week, why the hell would Alicia lead people into a bunker that has only one exit?  Yes, they have a ventilation system, but good luck trying to get people through that with a shortage of oxygen.  That is, assuming that they would have to use the ventilation system as a second exit at some point.    Even after they cleared the ventilation system so people wouldn't suffocate, they couldn't stay in the bunker forever. 

The intention is not to stay in there indefinitely - just long enough for the horde to disperse, or move on.  Lacking stimuli, the infected aren't going to hang around forever.  Sit down and shut up for a few days, and the ranch compound should be cleared; that, or at least reduced to a manageable level.

 

Quote

They can't be going to the bathroom in there. 

Sure they could.  Find the farthest-off corner with a nearby drain, and bingo - Designated Facilities.  :)

 

Quote

Why would the ventilation system run that long of a distance from the bunker itself?

That's actually a not-uncommon design feature.  Keep in mind this bunker was probably designed to defend against intelligent human pillagers, not a mindless zombie horde; I picture Otto designing it to withstand attack by mobs of godless screaming libtards or something similar.  In which case you camouflage or otherwise hide your air intakes/exhausts so your attackers can't easily find them, disable them, and cause the exact same situation the infected caused by random accident.

 

Quote

Where the hell did all of the guns go?  Last week, it didn't look like many were in use while trying to kill off the walkers.  And yet, there were few guns and perhaps one clip of ammo left in the bunker that Alicia went through rather quickly.

Lying on the ground outside - probably still strapped to the bodies of the ranch occupants who died before using them, or dropped by the survivors in their mad scramble to safety in the bunker.  Remember - although the initial horde repel was with melee weapons (to keep down noise stimulus, I'm guessing), everybody did have a gun.  Most just never used them.  And yes, it's ridiculous.  Are we in the American Southwest here, or are these people French?

 

1 hour ago, JackONeill said:

I missed this: Did Crazy Dog (or whatever his name is)(the guy who went with Ophelia) live? I saw him fall...and then I blinked. I don't think I saw him at the get-together at the end.

Claustrophobic Dog is still around.

Edited October 2, 2017 by Nashville
Typo

[Nashville]

Just occurred to me: Ofelia's and CD's intrepid voyage through the bunker's ductwork was an abject failure - by the time they accomplished their mission and actually got air flowing again, everybody in the bunker was already dead by asphyxiation.

Except for Alicia.

Of course.

[Rockfish]

So Alicia spends about an hour gabbing on and off with some lady who compliments her ("People look to you 'cause you're like, wicked strong and all"), which makes her immediately embrace that lady's newborn philosophy of "Never make a decision based on fear," which means she rejects her family entirely. Good thing she wasn't around in the late '60s, or she would have joined up with Charles Manson within five minutes of meeting him. (Of course, making a rash decision because you're afraid of making decisions based on fear isn't necessarily what her new buddy meant.)

Oh, and writers? That "zany" story Alicia told about not only her but Nick! too forgetting the lyrics of This Land is Your Land--that was the best you could do? Seriously? I get that they wanted to anchor something to the song at the end, but that stupid story? "And Nick also forgot the lyrics and kept kept singing 'This land is your land' over and over, which was so crazy that we got an awesome standing ovation." Come on! Plus (completely showing my age, here), by spending about five minutes looking at the lyrics of the song, the writers may have realized, "Hey, this old song is actually about social injustice, which means we can easily craft a wacky-yet-compelling anecdote that Alicia can tell that will reinforce Nick's character as a true friend to society's undesirables. Score! We are masters of our craft!"

Oh yeah, the live chat thread on this and the the original show has the best lol comments. I can never join in, though, cause I watch the show later.

[Bongo Fury]

This show is SO fucking bad, the writing is just awful.

 

Nick and Jake want to blow up the fuel depot so that they can create a diversion and draw off the walkers.  OK, decent plan. But why the hell do they try to go through the herd? Loop around and approach it from the rear, where there are little to no walkers. And then at that, you only need to get within about 100 yards, because YOU HAVE A DAMNED GRENADE LAUNCHER, use that to blow up the depot.

Idjeets.

 

No way the folks in the pantry would run out of air in a couple hours, In mine disasters people are trapped for weeks in a confined space and survive. But whatever, they needed to kill everyone off, so lameo plot device. The doors to the pantry open out, surely there are handles on the inside, tie them off with rope or chains or whatever and open the doors a crack. Enough to let air in and keep walkers out. Or shoot some holes in them like was mentioned above. At the very least, knock everyone out with the morphine, they'd use less air while 'sleeping'. And why were Ophelia and CD showing signs of lack of oxygen? They were crawling into spaces where no one else had been, i.e. fresh air. I know, I know, plot device. And of course everyone but Alicia dies, and they all turn instantly, which is usually a rare occurrence, but the plot required it so insta-walkers.

[Carl Malone]

There was a substantial amount of things in that pantry besides food; guns, shelves, some tools, metal poles, fencing, etc. How about taking all of that and making a barrier in front of the door and then open it up for some fresh air? Only a limited number of walkers would see the door open and be drawn to it, kill those ones and then you will have a pile of bodies and debris blocking additional walkers from coming in. Keep quiet, wait for everything to calm down, then start slowly leaving, killing, and retreating back to the bunker. Problem solved.

[Ohwell]

I want Nick and Troy to just run off together, and stop following Alicia's ass.  

2 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

It seems to me that there would be more than one chicken shit that wouldn't be willing to be put down.

Yeah that would have been me. ; )

[JackONeill]

3 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

 

I find it hard to believe that all of the bitten folks manned up and came forward.  It seems to me that there would be more than one chicken shit that wouldn't be willing to be put down.

But did it matter? And that is what's so frustrating about this show. (Well, one of many things.) People do things all the time and it doesn't seem to matter because at the end of the day, it's all about Madison and her brew living while everyone else dies. (Besides, practically speaking, you can't have a cast that numbers in the 100s. So a good "purging" will always happen when the number of people in one scene gets above 8 to 10.)

[SimoneS]

I don't blame Madison and her kids for the ranch's demise. It was bound to happen eventually given that they had set up camp in an indefensible location much like Hershel's farm getting overrun on TWD. Alicia's miraculous survival is typical. She, her mother, and brother are always going to survive. The show is just so freaking bad! 

[FishyJoe]

This episode was the worst of any TWD or FTWD, it makes me angry how stupid and ridiculous it was.

You have a room full of adults and they are turn to the teenage girl to do the killing. These people are 10x worse than the CDB people. These people have the survival instinct of a jellyfish. 

Everyone, and I mean everyone, suffocates to death except for Alicia who runs around like a spring chicken. Is Alicia some kind of mutant immune from hypoxia or something?

They have a room full of all kinds of stuff, can't they chain up or block the entrance and crack open the door? Drill holes or something.

How the f*ck did Madison and Co. clear all those walkers, there were like hundreds if not thousands? WTF? 

[kira28]

That was the worst episode I've ever watched. So unbelievable and stupid. From Alicia being the only one to survive and Madison saving the day. Just horribly written. And haven't these morons figured out you can't survive alone? Alicia wants to live her life with out fear. Um what exactly does she think she's going to find out there. One needs food water and shelter to survive as well as weapons 

And she's a young pretty girl so there are plenty of bad people out there who may do her harm. I would think you would want to be with your family even if your family sucks. 

[PrincessPurrsALot]

In a life imitates crap moment, this morning in the BART (subway) station, there was a man playing This Land is Your Land on the accordion. He was terrible.  Listening to him was still better than watching this show. 

[heisenberg]

That episode was pretty stupid, more than the others when I was not sure it was possible.  Boy those writers can be full of...  Surprise!

Seeing Dumb and dumber having fun in a pick-up was something,  the others playing Big brother, Survivor or that kind reality show in the bunker was something too.  

I wonder if the dam will stay in one piece until next season now that the Griswald family is heading for it?

[slf]

Alicia continues to prove she's the only intelligent Clarke by abandoning her, to quote Beth, "suck-ass" family.

Is it just me or do the walkers move a lot faster on this show than they do on TWD? I first noticed it in the episode where Travis to tossed into a pit of walkers; they were coming at him super fast.

[Gobi]

3 hours ago, slf said:

 

Is it just me or do the walkers move a lot faster on this show than they do on TWD? I first noticed it in the episode where Travis to tossed into a pit of walkers; they were coming at him super fast.

That, at least, is deliberate. The show runners have said the dead in FTWD are in better shape, as it is still the beginning of the ZA. In TWD, the dead are older, more decomposed, and less agile years later. Of course, that presupposes that the majority became zombies at the start of the ZA.

[slaterain]

If I ignore all the stupid plot mechanics and contrivances - Alicia was pretty amazing in this ep - I thought her breakdown and maturity was well done. And I love that she said F-off to mommy dearest at the end. I also enjoyed the half of Talking Dead with her and Aisha Tyler (not confusing at all!) that I caught. I would have been pissed if they killed her off as she is one of the few reasons I am watching anymore. Her and Strand. Mainly because I think they are having the most interesting arc in how they each are growing/changing after the ZA. And I generally enjoyed the ep probably the most of any of this series. 

but there were definitely plenty of eye-rolling moments that I can come up with justification for the stupid but why should I? 
a survivalist only has one way in and out of the pantry/bunker (not including the ventilation shaft)?!?! 
Alicia being the only one to survive - ok so she passed out with a zombie dead above her which probably helped her "hide" until the air came back when she woke up.
Zombies being so strong to knock out a helicopter window? Aren't those pretty strong to handle flight pressure?! 
A zombie horde this bad in the middle of nowhere? It took two seasons on WD for a horde and it was small compared to this one - or compare to the Alexandria horde which was way later in the ZA. 
madison saving the day somehow. yeah right. 

I quit watching this show once and then randomly caught the end of a marathon and started watching again since not much else was on... need some strong Strand eps to keep me going or I may just quit again. 
 

[Nashville]

2 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Then I don't understand why there aren't more walkers and people around.  It seems to me that there ought to be more people on this show than on the mothership.

Hell - getting out of LA is a logistical nightmare, even with a functioning brain and working traffic lights.  At this point in the ZA, probably 90% of the undead population is still stuck on the I-5 inner loop.

[piequinn35]

1 hour ago, Nashville said:

Hell - getting out of LA is a logistical nightmare, even with a functioning brain and working traffic lights.  At this point in the ZA, probably 90% of the undead population is still stuck on the I-5 inner loop.

You forgot that the military bombed L.A. :)

[Nashville]

25 minutes ago, piequinn35 said:

You forgot that the military bombed L.A. :)

You're right - that may have improved the congestion somewhat.  ;>

[Nashville]

"This is your Eye In the Sky Traffic Helicopter taking another loop around the Downtown district, and - Holy Cow!  The military is lobbing incendiary artillery as fast as they can throw them in!  North Broadway is in flames from Spring Street to Chinatown!  The La Brea tar pits are burning like a Roman candle!  Everything from Lincoln Heights to Santa Monica looks to be a seething mass of flame, like a precursor view to the bowels of Hell!!!"

"On the plus side, though, it looks like that congestion on the I-5 inner loop is finally breaking loose a little...."

:D

[maystone]

I've grown to like Alicia as a character, and I think Alycia Debnam-Carey is acting her heart out. So on one hand, it was great to see that Alicia got her own episode; on the other hand, it turned out to be this episode. Could this be considered a bottle episode? There were a lot of extras, but mostly they were background shufflers. And the vast majority of the episode took place in the bunker with some side trips to the vent. But then there's the helicopter, and the explosion, and a bunch of walkers. I don't know. I'm just trying to come up with a reason why the writers would do this time waster.

Edited October 4, 2017 by maystone

[rmontro]

So Alicia gets her chance to be leader, and manages to kill everybody on the ranch (except Ophelia and that other guy in the vent)?  She's one of the few characters I can tolerate, but the writers aren't doing her any favors.  Then afterward she decides it's the time to go off on her own.  It really makes no sense.

There was one point in the episode where everything stopped happening, and everybody just started having conversations.  I kept thinking that if those people in the vent hadn't stopped to have a long conversation about Iraq, maybe everyone wouldn't have suffocated.

Then Troy suddenly decides he wants to help out after leading all those "infected" to destroy the ranch.  What a flip flopper.

[Nashville]

14 hours ago, rmontro said:

So Alicia gets her chance to be leader, and manages to kill everybody on the ranch

You're right; a public service award might be in order.

 

14 hours ago, rmontro said:

(except Ophelia and that other guy in the vent)? 

Hey, nobody's perfect.  :>

[Jel]

Should we get a little side action going betting on how long it will take Team Destructo to ruin everything at the dam? I'll take 4 episodes (and only because one of them has to be devoted to some Daniel- Ophelia reconnection and conflict.

[rmontro]

6 hours ago, Jel said:

Should we get a little side action going betting on how long it will take Team Destructo to ruin everything at the dam?

You're right, that dam is as good as obliterated.

[Nashville]

1 hour ago, rmontro said:

7 hours ago, Jel said:

Should we get a little side action going betting on how long it will take Team Destructo to ruin everything at the dam? I'll take 4 episodes (and only because one of them has to be devoted to some Daniel- Ophelia reconnection and conflict.

You're right, that dam is as good as obliterated.

I already have dibs on Episodes 15-16.  :)

[EyesGlazed]

It's so unrealistic that nobody but Alicia survived the Pantry.  Come on.  There was no kid who didn't need as much air as the others, or no adult who was laying off to the side and wasn't attacked by the infected?  Plus it would have been more interesting to add a couple new characters in addition to Crazy Dog.  As someone said upthread, the whole Ranch story arc yielded nothing lasting except for nutter Troy and his weird bromance with Nick (yeah, Troy came to warn you all about the herd, right) and one additional character.  What a waste.

Also: With the grenade launcher and a truck, Nick and Troy couldn't lure the herd away from the Ranch?  And why did they drive to the helicopter and then sit in it doing f--k-all to help the people in the Pantry?

Why do FTWD and TWD always have to have a bad guy who drives all the action?  Why can't we have a season that just examines the challenges of living in a community in a post-apocalyptic world where survival is hard and interpersonal conflicts have to be managed for the greater good?  I thought FTWD was going there with the ranchers and Indians trying to live and work together, but no, we had to have nutter Troy f--k everything up.

Yeah, the Dam's days are numbered.

[rmontro]

14 hours ago, EyesGlazed said:

It's so unrealistic that nobody but Alicia survived the Pantry.  Come on.  There was no kid who didn't need as much air as the others, or no adult who was laying off to the side and wasn't attacked by the infected?

Yeah, that bugged me too.  She also had someone laying on top of her, which could have constricted her breathing.  About the only thing she had going for her was her youth.

Regarding bad guys driving the action, the first few seasons of TWD were mostly about survival.  There were personality conflicts (Shane, Merle, Daryl), but that is to be expected.

[oakville]

On 10/7/2017 at 10:52 AM, EyesGlazed said:

It's so unrealistic that nobody but Alicia survived the Pantry.  Come on.  There was no kid who didn't need as much air as the others, or no adult who was laying off to the side and wasn't attacked by the infected?  Plus it would have been more interesting to add a couple new characters in addition to Crazy Dog.  As someone said upthread, the whole Ranch story arc yielded nothing lasting except for nutter Troy and his weird bromance with Nick (yeah, Troy came to warn you all about the herd, right) and one additional character.  What a waste.

Also: With the grenade launcher and a truck, Nick and Troy couldn't lure the herd away from the Ranch?  And why did they drive to the helicopter and then sit in it doing f--k-all to help the people in the Pantry?

Why do FTWD and TWD always have to have a bad guy who drives all the action?  Why can't we have a season that just examines the challenges of living in a community in a post-apocalyptic world where survival is hard and interpersonal conflicts have to be managed for the greater good?  I thought FTWD was going there with the ranchers and Indians trying to live and work together, but no, we had to have nutter Troy f--k everything up.

Yeah, the Dam's days are numbered.

I would have liked FTWD to focus more on Surviving in the ZA. It was an exciting premise of Survivalist Ranchers trying to control the border & dealing with Indian Reservations. It would have been interesting to see two groups trying different ways to survive. There was a scene of Walker's Group trying to find water with rods etc. Unfortunately, it was too brief.

Now, Madison will find a way to blow up the dam & destroy a source of drinking water for thousands of survivors.